Re: Bye Bye The Bat.... Say Hi to Becky!

[Bernhard Kohl]

Hello Januk,

Mitteilung vom Freitag, 31. August 2001, 20:09:57:


JA> Could you please explain what is this "reminder" feature?  Perhaps
JA> there is a solution available.

I think of a mail that I will write and save now but want sending
deferred until a certain date and/or time (Eudora does this).

Then, You can extend this idea to a recurring mail, e g. an invitation
for the weekly meeting.

JA> Also, we should move this to the TBTECH list if we start trying to
JA> make a VBScript. 


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Re: Bye Bye The Bat.... Say Hi to Becky!

[Bernhard Kohl]

Hallo Dierk,

Mitteilung vom Freitag, 31. August 2001, 16:19:34:

DH> the more users there are the more wishes will be uttered. And to be
DH> sure, some of these will be sensible, others debatable, and some pure
DH> nonsense.

DH> Need an example? Look at the new HTML viewer - when the memory problem
DH> is solved I will surely use it, because it offers some nice formatting
DH> options for reading. But there will also be, some day, the option to
DH> write HTML mails. some want it, I dread it.

DH> It is quite funny how often I have to tell people how to uncheck "Send
DH> mail as HTML" when they definitely don't need it for their mails. Just
DH> because they use OE.

DH> To summarize: You can't have everything, not even with MS (compare
DH> Paradox to Access, 1-2-3 to Excel, Papyrus to Word).

I totally agree with you! And I really don't wont a jack of all
trades.

What I wrote was that any developer should carefully read where users
feel uncomfortable with their software (and I assume Ritlabs will do
so).

Therafter, they can discard any of this ideas, of course, if they
think that the wanted feature doesn't fit their program.


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Re: QT with %ATTACHMENT macro

[David van Zuijlekom]

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Hello Dierk,

On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 09:03:58 +0200, Dierk Haasis [DH]
wrote concerning 'QT with %ATTACHMENT macro':

[...]
DH> I think everyone can see the problem, the attachment list cannot
DH> be created before the attachments have been added. For neatness
DH> purposes I like my non-text-creating macros at the end of the
DH> template. seems I have to change it this time and put the
DH> %ATTACHFILE macros at the beginning of the template.

Ok. Now I understand your problem. You want TB! to insert the
attachments via the template also. I thought you where talking about
adding them manually. I think I misread your originally post. I am
sorry for that.

And I also think you have to place the %Attachfile macros before the
%Attachments macro.

DH> I hope it is obvious why I don't want the attachment's list after
DH> the sig delimiter.

Yes I understand.

- --
Best regards,
 David

** Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now. **

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Some basic questions

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hello tbudl,

I have been here many times, and now that Pegasus Mail has gone very
inaccessible to screen reader users (I am visually impaired), I think
I am almost going with the bat.

I just have a few questions:-
1.  When creating multiple accounts, is it possible for the
administrator to not see all those accounts by default?  I.e, I only
wish to see my default account, Andrew.  Furthermore, if I purchase a
five user license of the bat, would that be only five accounts I was
allowed?

2.  Is it acceptable to have the bat on workstations connected to the
pop3 server (probably Internet Anywhere), but storing in a common
location (mapped drive) so they can use any machine?

Thanks.
Andrew.

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 Andrew  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Threads

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hello tbudl,

  What is the best way to view mailing lists in the bat?

  Tia.
  Andrew.

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Re: Some basic questions

[Peter Palmreuther]

Hello Andrew,

On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 12:29:18 PM you wrote (at least in part):

AH> I just have a few questions:-

I'll try to answer at least some of your questions, other I'm not the one for
correct answers for :-)

AH> 1.  When creating multiple accounts, is it possible for the
AH> administrator to not see all those accounts by default?  I.e, I only
AH> wish to see my default account, Andrew.


AH> Furthermore, if I purchase a five user license of the bat, would that be
AH> only five accounts I was allowed?

Licences are not 'per POP-Account' but 'per physical user' ... so if you're
one person having 10 POP-Accounts you're done with one licence.

AH> 2.  Is it acceptable to have the bat on workstations connected to the
AH> pop3 server (probably Internet Anywhere), but storing in a common
AH> location (mapped drive) so they can use any machine?

I don't know 'bout the whole Workstation / Network-Environment thing in TB! as
I'm using it in single mode, but you're able to define per account in which
directory mail should be stored.
If this is a mapped network drive you should also be able to access this
files/mail from a second or third computer that have this drive mapped too.
There's one thing I'd worry about: both machines should use the same drive
name for mapping (e.g. X:) as I don't know if TB! stores absolute path names
within the account data.
Maybe somebody else could enlighten both of us for this point.

HTH Pit
-- 
Regards
Peter Palmreuthermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(The Bat! v1.54 Beta/7 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2)

Well, it looks like blind, screaming hedonism won out.


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Re: Threads

[Peter Palmreuther]

Hello Andrew,

On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 12:33:30 PM you wrote (at least in part):

AH> What is the best way to view mailing lists in the bat?

If people on list are strict with their MUAs it should be 'Sort Threads by
reference'. This does only work if (nearly) all send correct 'Follow-Up-To' or
'References' headers with their mail.
I prefer after this sorting by 'creation time', other do by 'received time'.

Other comments / explanations are welcome :-)
-- 
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Peter Palmreuthermailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(The Bat! v1.54 Beta/7 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2)

When we talk about property, state, masters, government, laws, courts, 
and police, we say only that we don't want any of them.


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Re: Reminders

[Jacek Wojaczynski]

Hello Thomas F

On Monday, September 03, 2001 you wrote:

> But then, as Allie has described, this feature is available via the
> Windows Scheduler and the CLI.

Does Win95 has this scheduler?

regards,

-- 
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 )'Y'(   __
( ) / Jacek Wojaczynski The Bat! 1.53d under Win 95 4.0 build  \

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Re: Threads

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hi All,

On  Mon,  3 Sep 2001 at 11:33:30 GMT +0100 (9/3/2001 5:33 PM GMT +0700
where you think I live) "Andrew Hodgson"=[AH]typed the following :

>   What is the best way to view mailing lists in the bat?

Mostly View Thead by reference, sort by receiving date.

But I noticed, if you're using Mercury as MTAReceiver, better to sort
by Sender date.

-- 
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- Syafril -   mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL:  / 

Flying with The Bat! 1.53o
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Re[2]: Threads

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hello Peter,

Monday, September 03, 2001, 11:52:46 AM, you wrote:

PP> Hello Andrew,

PP> On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 12:33:30 PM you wrote (at least in part):

AH>> What is the best way to view mailing lists in the bat?

PP> If people on list are strict with their MUAs it should be 'Sort Threads by
PP> reference'. This does only work if (nearly) all send correct 'Follow-Up-To' or
PP> 'References' headers with their mail.
PP> I prefer after this sorting by 'creation time', other do by 'received time'.

Is it possible in tb to group messages into a thread, and
collapse/expand threads?

Also, when replying to a mailing list post, I see that the to line
indicates the person who I am replying to, but does correctly identify
the mailing list address, is this correct?

Tia
Andrew.
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 Andrewmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Reminders

[Marck D Pearlstone]

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Hash: SHA1

Hi Jacek,

On 03 September 2001 at  12:46:08 +0200 (which was 11:46 where I live)
Jacek Wojaczynski wrote to Thomas F and made these points:

>> But then, as Allie has described, this feature is available via the
>> Windows Scheduler and the CLI.

JW> Does Win95 has this scheduler?

Not inherently, but it does have SAGE (System AGEnt) in the plus pack,
which performs that function. This was added into the core 98 (and
therefore Me) products by default.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
 ~~~
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 \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0  |  www: http://www.silverstones.com /

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Re: Some basic questions

[Allie C Martin]

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Hi Andrew,
On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:29:18 +0100, you contributed this to our
collective wisdom:
...
AH> 1. When creating multiple accounts, is it possible for the
AH> administrator to not see all those accounts by default? I.e, I only
AH> wish to see my default account, Andrew. Furthermore, if I purchase a
AH> five user license of the bat, would that be only five accounts I was
AH> allowed?

I'll address this part since Peter did the others.

If you're using TB! as administrator you'll always see all the accounts.
You could however create a user account for yourself which uses only
your default account and create a special shortcut to start TB!, open
your personal user account.

\thebat.exe /FocusU=;P=

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Re: QT with %ATTACHMENT macro

[Dierk Haasis]

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Hello David!

On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 11:21:39 AM you wrote:

> Ok. Now I understand your problem. You want TB! to insert the
> attachments via the template also. I thought you where talking about
> adding them manually. I think I misread your originally post. I am
> sorry for that.

Nothing to be sorry about. sometimes one can misunderstand what is
said or even written, so we just clear it up. :-)

> And I also think you have to place the %Attachfile macros before the
> %Attachments macro.

Oh yes, as I found out the not so hard way, TB! works strictly from
top to bottom. with the %- macro that is a minor inconvenience. I just
changed my template to insert the files first, then the body, then
work on the macros at the end. goes like a charm now.



- --
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

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Re: Threads

[Allie C Martin]

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Hi Andrew,
On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:33:30 +0100, you contributed this to our
collective wisdom:
...
AH>   What is the best way to view mailing lists in the bat?

Threading your list messages helps a great deal. How should you thread?

Well, I'd say it depends. For lists as these TB lists, you know that
most subscribers will post with headers containing reference headers.
Threading by references using creation time in descending order works
very well.

However, on lists where the MUA's being used are diverse and a large
portion of users post messages containing no reference headers, then
threading by subject is better.

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Re[2]: Some basic questions

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hello TBUDL list,

Monday, September 03, 2001, 12:28:43 PM, you wrote:

[...]

ACM> Hi Andrew,
ACM> On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:29:18 +0100, you contributed this to our
ACM> collective wisdom:
ACM> ...
AH>> 1. When creating multiple accounts, is it possible for the
AH>> administrator to not see all those accounts by default? I.e, I only
AH>> wish to see my default account, Andrew. Furthermore, if I purchase a
AH>> five user license of the bat, would that be only five accounts I was
AH>> allowed?

ACM> I'll address this part since Peter did the others.

ACM> If you're using TB! as administrator you'll always see all the accounts.
ACM> You could however create a user account for yourself which uses only
ACM> your default account and create a special shortcut to start TB!, open
ACM> your personal user account.

Thanks - however, if I only have a five user version, can I have six
accounts, one for me and the other for admin (when I want to modify
other account settings)?

On another tack, is there a way of replying to a message but only
include a sellective portion of the message (I tried sellecting,
pressing ctrl+f5, but the whole message came into my reply).

Thanks.
Amdrew.

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 Andrewmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Some basic questions

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hi All,

On  Mon, 3 Sep 2001 at 12:36:52 GMT +0100 (9/3/2001 6:36 PM GMT +0700
where you think I live) "Andrew Hodgson"=[AH]typed the following :

> On another tack, is there a way of replying to a message but only
> include a sellective portion of the message (I tried sellecting,
> pressing ctrl+f5, but the whole message came into my reply).

After selecting, press F4.

-- 
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- Syafril -   mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL:  / 

Flying with The Bat! 1.53o
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Re: Some basic questions

[Allie C Martin]

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Hi Andrew,
On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 12:36:52 +0100, you wrote these comments:
...
AH> Thanks - however, if I only have a five user version, can I have six
AH> accounts, one for me and the other for admin (when I want to modify
AH> other account settings)?

I don't know about this. You could send a direct query to Ritlabs on
this.

AH> On another tack, is there a way of replying to a message but only
AH> include a sellective portion of the message (I tried sellecting,
AH> pressing ctrl+f5, but the whole message came into my reply).

Select the text and hit F4.

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Re[2]: Some basic questions

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hello TBUDL list,

Monday, September 03, 2001, 12:50:50 PM, you wrote:

SH> After selecting, press F4.

Thanks.

Sorry to be a pane also, but is there a way of expanding the threads
by default?  The reason I ask is because my screen reader does not
announce whether there are messages inside the thread or not, but I
can see the structure of the thread on the screen.

Thanks.
Andrew.

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 Andrewmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re[3]: Some basic questions

[Raj]

Andrew,

On Mon, 3 Sep 2001, at 12:36:52 [GMT +0100] (which was 5:06 PM where I live) you
wrote:


AH> On another tack, is there a way of replying to a message but only
AH> include a sellective portion of the message (I tried sellecting,
AH> pressing ctrl+f5, but the whole message came into my reply).

Its simply select text & F4


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Warm regards,
Raj

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Replied on Monday, September 03, 2001 using TB Ver 1.53d


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Re: Some basic questions

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hi All,

On  Mon, 3 Sep 2001 at 12:53:17 GMT +0100 (9/3/2001 6:53 PM GMT +0700
where you think I live) "Andrew Hodgson"=[AH]typed the following :

> Sorry to be a pane also, but is there a way of expanding the threads
> by default?  The reason I ask is because my screen reader does not
> announce whether there are messages inside the thread or not, but I
> can see the structure of the thread on the screen.

Have you tried Mail Ticker yet ? That way, you will notified if new
message come in.

-- 
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- Syafril -   mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL:  / 

Flying with The Bat! 1.53o
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Re: Some basic questions

[Marck D Pearlstone]

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Hi Andrew,

On 03 September 2001 at  12:36:52 +0100 (which was 12:36 where I live)
Andrew Hodgson wrote to Allie C Martin and made these points:

AH> Thanks - however, if I only have a five user version, can I have
AH> six accounts, one for me and the other for admin (when I want to
AH> modify other account settings)?

I've said this to you off-list, but it's worth saying on-list too. The
user licence states that it is per computer, not per user. So you can
have as many accounts and users as you want using that single copy of
TB on a single computer.

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 ~~~
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Re: Some basic questions

[Marck D Pearlstone]

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Hi Andrew,

On 03 September 2001 at  12:53:17 +0100 (which was 12:53 where I live)
Andrew Hodgson wrote to Syafril Hermansyah and made these points:

AH> Sorry to be a pane also, but is there a way of expanding the
AH> threads by default?

No, but you can just press Ctrl-* by reflex, which will open all
threads if there are any or do nothing if there aren't.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
 ~~~
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TB! v1.54 Beta/7-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32)
Comment: GPG Sealed for freshness

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F+LPrg4vyY9Qe2Yh3LnNo/k=
=Lyex
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re: Some basic questions

[Dierk Haasis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Andrew!

On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 1:36:52 PM you wrote:

> Thanks - however, if I only have a five user version, can I have six
> accounts, one for me and the other for admin (when I want to modify
> other account settings)?

To get that straight: Do you have one machine with multiple users
needing a multiple account installation of TB!? Then you would need
one licence; TB! is programmed to support more than one account
anyway.

Or do you need TB! for different computers, which would really need
more than one licence due to the licence agreement (and copyright)?


- --
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.54 Beta/7 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

When you lose, don't lose the lesson.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt
Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom!

iQA/AwUBO5NqovTo1oA8g8dLEQKZaQCgkxKpSBTxAy0vbFA4LmqBIfPlJXwAoOyv
TASVUCz0X3sXfSMhHZbj0O/i
=HQTw
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Bye Bye The Bat.... Say Hi to Becky!

[Jacek Wojaczynski]

Hello Dierk Haasis

On Monday, September 03, 2001 you wrote:

> But you can use a specific birthday template: Just create your
> "personal" QT for it.

That's pretty easy.

> when the new message is opened, go into the body
> push +,

Do I have to?

> type in your QT handle push + and you
> are ready to go.

Sure. I often use QTs that way and I never press
 +

> Sounds much more time consuming and complicated than it really is.

Yep. :-)

regards,

-- 
 /\_/\ All things are difficult before they are easy.
(~o o~)  
 )'Y'(   __
( ) / Jacek Wojaczynski   The Bat! 1.53d under Win95 4.0 build \

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Re: Bye Bye The Bat.... Say Hi to Becky!

[Dierk Haasis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Jacek!

On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 1:23:36 PM you wrote:

> Do I have to?

Depends, if you use %BLANK in your QT's, you don't need to. If you use
blank default templates, you don't need to. But if you use templates
with something in it, by + you mark everything in the
template and overwrite it with your QT handle. The safest way not to
have any remnants you don't want to have.




- --
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.54 Beta/7 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to
correct it.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt
Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom!

iQA/AwUBO5N07PTo1oA8g8dLEQLVYQCgpFfLMVYfggCVEaum5E1C5oNXfwYAoJ03
44KS9eoeCWv12Az3qQVyaEWM
=uuww
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Some basic questions

[Andrew Hodgson]

On 3 Sep 2001 at 14:33, Dierk Haasis wrote:

> Or do you need TB! for different computers, which would really need
> more than one licence due to the licence agreement (and copyright

Ok - I now have discovered that I only need a two user license - I 
misunderstood the license model - this is probably due to me dealing 
with more servers than anything else (grin).

Andrew.

-- 
Andrew Hodgson | Bromyard | Herefordshire | UK.
Get latest PGP key from 
C'mon Thor, don't make me shove this thing up your butt! - B&B


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Re: Some basic questions

[Andrew Hodgson]

On 3 Sep 2001 at 13:14, Marck D Pearlstone wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> On 03 September 2001 at  12:53:17 +0100 (which was 12:53 where I live)
> Andrew Hodgson wrote to Syafril Hermansyah and made these points:
> 
> AH> Sorry to be a pane also, but is there a way of expanding the
> AH> threads by default?
> 
> No, but you can just press Ctrl-* by reflex, which will open all
> threads if there are any or do nothing if there aren't.

Thanks - this is what I wanted!

Andrew.-- 
Andrew Hodgson | Bromyard | Herefordshire | UK.
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Re: Some basic questions

[Thomas F]

Hello Syafril,

On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:08:10 +0700 GMT (03/09/2001, 20:08 +0800 GMT),
Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

SH> Have you tried Mail Ticker yet ? That way, you will notified if new
SH> message come in.

Don't - in cooperation with a screenreader it will freeze the whole
screen.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Sorry, I don't date outside my species.


Message reply created with The Bat! 1.54 Beta/7
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM


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A reminder of Mail Ticker trouble

[Dierk Haasis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello TBUDL Members!

  Since the MT was mentioned again, I tried to utilize it again. still
  it freezes with the "x messages new" part after one round.

  I still don't know why. Here again are the options I used:

1. Show automatically (tested with "Always", same prob)
2. Show message with priority High, Low, Normal
3. Go faster
4. Auto-Zoom
5. Always on top
6. At the top of my monitor
7. Age limit Maximum 30 sec
8. Normal view (not thin)
9. Font MS Sans Serif

  Graphics adapter is a Matrox Millenium G400DH (32 MB RAMDAC).
  DirectX 7.0a is installed. The computer has a PII 233MHz processor
  and 128 MB RAm. It is an SCSI system. The Monitor is a Iiyama Vision
  Master 450 (19") at 1280x1024 TrueColor (24 Bit) with RGB output
  cable (much better than the normal interface).

  I still hope we will get a solution one day.


- --
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.54 Beta/7 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

Military Intelligence is a contradiction in terms.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt
Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom!

iQA/AwUBO5OIwPTo1oA8g8dLEQJtLgCfQ1ThLjtIi9f9Ly4JaB0Wfjgg1v0An2HC
LV8kZ648w8WTwz4u0DMsS8qc
=qY59
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re[2]: Some basic questions

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hello TBUDL list,

Monday, September 03, 2001, 2:58:58 PM, you wrote:

TF> Hello Syafril,

TF> On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:08:10 +0700 GMT (03/09/2001, 20:08 +0800 GMT),
TF> Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

SH>> Have you tried Mail Ticker yet ? That way, you will notified if new
SH>> message come in.

TF> Don't - in cooperation with a screenreader it will freeze the whole
TF> screen.

Have you had experience with the screen reader then?  Or just the mail
ticker (grin).

Yes, it does stop speech for tb window only.

-- 
Best regards,
 Andrewmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Threads

[Nick Andriash]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Monday, September 03 2001 at 03:59 AM PDT, Andrew Hodgson wrote:

> Also, when replying to a mailing list post, I see that the to line
> indicates the person who I am replying to, but does correctly identify
> the mailing list address, is this correct?

It's a 'feature' that should be disabled, and you can do that by going
to Account/Properties/Templates/Reply and check the box that states:

"Do not use FROM name for REPLY-TO address"

For most it's annoying, and for Lists other than the more tolerable
TBUDL and TBBETA... it's intolerable. Best just to check the box. ;o)


- -- 
Nick

   -=N.J. Andriash | Courtenay, B.C. Canada=-
Win 98SE | GnuPG v1.06 (MingW32) | Becky v2.00.07

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) - GnuPGshell v1.91
Comment: Join: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

iD8DBQE7k7I4xQKEdHuj/c4RAuQYAJ93Q9dN24np6gcWfwZApcL8pAKARACdGOiW
XXS0kmF6upTEyNrixAApL1o=
=CKKN
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Why no HTML

[Dierk Haasis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello TBUDL Members!

  Here's another reason against HTML mail:

  As the German InternetWorld reports certain companies have developed
  software to control if and who opens their HTML mail. Especially
  marketing and advertising firms are highly interested in monitoring
  their newsletter distribution better.

  For our German reading members - and those who can identify software
  and sotware companies in the text - here is part of the report:

> Doch die Experten hatten auch einige Lösungen für das Problem parat:
> Eine mögliche Lösung gebe es beispielsweise von Oracle. Mit einem
> System namens Off-the-Shelf E-Mail Tracking lässt sich
> nachvollziehen, wer eine HTML-Mail geöffnet hat. Möglich macht dies
> eine Einstellung, die den Empfänger nach dem öffnen der Mail
> kurzfristig über den Firmen-Server leitet, um dort beispielsweise
> eine Bilddatei zu laden. Der Server kann anschließend die IP-Adresse
> des E-Mail-Empfängers speichern. Auch Constant Contact von Roving
> Software oder GotMarketing ist nach Ansicht der Experten zum
> eMail-Tracking geeignet. (dk)



- --
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.54 Beta/7 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

It's never too late to start all over again. (John Kay)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt
Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom!

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+Zmmvzti5f4DtpjUZJuzQZFY
=nP/l
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Threads

[David van Zuijlekom]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Nick,

On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 09:45:15 -0700, Nick Andriash [NA]
wrote concerning 'Threads':

NA> For most it's annoying, and for Lists other than the more
NA> tolerable TBUDL and TBBETA... it's intolerable. Best just to check
NA> the box. ;o)

Pardon me for jumping in but why is it intolerable?

- --
Best regards,
 David

** 007 of Borg:  "Dr. Borg." **

[TB! 1.54 Beta/7] [Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2]
[Running on a Celeron 633@874 256 Mb RAM]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Build 06
Comment: PGPKeys: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_PGP_key

iQA/AwUBO5OrflK9yf5+yp9NEQJ0kQCgzZnJ/a6lYeVjmpb+OIw62w4OqLUAoOgG
8TGRoyKJY796LCMr1CpQIcb5
=bzfF
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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The Bat! as Mail-Server for Outlook on local network?

[Alexander Britschgi]

Hi!

I know that you can use The Bat! as a server on local network, but as
I have understood, the clients have to use The Bat!, too.
Is it possible to use other eMail-porgs (for example Outlook) as
client, so that outgoing mails are stored on The Bat! (on my Win2k
system) until I go online (modem), and that incoming mails are stored
either until the Outlook-client on the local network fetches them?

Thanks in advance!

alex


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Re: Some basic questions

[Thomas F]

Hello Andrew,

On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:08:55 +0100 GMT (04/09/2001, 00:08 +0800 GMT),
Andrew Hodgson wrote:

TF>> Don't - in cooperation with a screenreader it will freeze the whole
TF>> screen.

AH> Have you had experience with the screen reader then?  Or just the mail
AH> ticker (grin).

With Jaws. I hear the same problem exists with Blindows.

AH> Yes, it does stop speech for tb window only.

That's because it's scrolling, and the screenreader cannot keep up. It
keeps refereshing, but once it has started, it ust start refreshing
again. Some blind users have discarded TB, until they were advised how
to turn the MT off.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

I wonder how much deeper would the ocean be without sponges.


Message reply created with The Bat! 1.54 Beta/7
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM


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Re: Why no HTML

[Jernej Simončič]

Hello Dierk,

3. september 2001, 18:48:07, you wrote:

DH>   As the German InternetWorld reports certain companies have developed
DH>   software to control if and who opens their HTML mail. Especially
DH>   marketing and advertising firms are highly interested in monitoring
DH>   their newsletter distribution better.

It doesn't work this way in TB, as TB doesn't download any images from
Internet, even if the image address says so (which is good). So, no
The Bat! user tracking via HTML mail 8^)

-- 
Jernej Simoncic, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/
ICQ: 26266467

[The Bat! v1.53d on Windows 98 4.10.1998. ]


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Re: Why no HTML

[Nick Andriash]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Monday, September 03 2001 at 09:48 AM PDT, Dierk Haasis wrote:

>  Here's another reason against HTML mail:

Dierk, I cannot read German, so can you give us a short blurb on just
what the mechanism is behind the Advertiser's ability to 'track' their
Newsletter usage?

I was 'very' disappointed the moment TB! decided to change direction
and include HTML as an integral part of their Mail Client. I suppose I
can understand their reasons for doing it, but didn't seem to stem the
disappointment. 

I'm using Becky 2.0 just for a change, and I find it refreshing actually.
I sure wish RITLabs would at least allow us customizeable toolbars. The
GUI hasn't changed in years :o( and I think what we are looking at now
*is* version 2.0.


- -- 
Nick

   -=N.J. Andriash | Courtenay, B.C. Canada=-
Win 98SE | GnuPG v1.06 (MingW32) | Becky v2.00.07

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) - GnuPGshell v1.91
Comment: Join: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

iD8DBQE7k8aZxQKEdHuj/c4RAnBHAJ92lc/sAJRsAZYcblBhavn5+oD1gwCgs/Cy
let4cB+Ay0of5waM3cXosSQ=
=Z/nN
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re[2]: Why no HTML

[Jernej Simončič]

Hello Nick,

3. september 2001, 20:07:39, you wrote:

NA> Dierk, I cannot read German, so can you give us a short blurb on just
NA> what the mechanism is behind the Advertiser's ability to 'track' their
NA> Newsletter usage?

It's very simple: just insert image which has SRC="" field set to
internet address...

-- 
Jernej Simoncic, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/
ICQ: 26266467

[The Bat! v1.53d on Windows 98 4.10.1998. ]


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pgp/gnupg

[::Andrew::]

Hello tbudl,

  I'm just thinking about getting to know pgp or similar in terms of
  email encryption. Does anyone have any tips on what software is best
  / where to download / how to implement?

-- 
Best regards,
 ::Andrew::  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  London UK

http://at.omic.co.uk

Using   The   Bat!  1.53d  on  Windows 98 4.10   Build    A


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Re: Threads

[Peter Meyns]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 03 Sep 2001 09:45:15 -0700GMT (which was 18:45 +0200GMT where I live),
Nick Andriash presented us with these thoughts about "Threads":

>> Also, when replying to a mailing list post, I see that the to line
>> indicates the person who I am replying to, but does correctly identify
>> the mailing list address, is this correct?

...
NA> For most it's annoying, and for Lists other than the more tolerable
NA> TBUDL and TBBETA... it's intolerable.

Hi Nick,

I don't quite understand what is annoying about this feature. I for myself
like it as I can easily see who the writer is referring to. Why should it
be intolerable?

Cheers
Peter

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Build 06
Comment: PGP-signed for better authentication :o)
Comment: Key available at http://www.meynsweb.com/public-key.txt
Comment: Key-ID:0xE10774CE
Comment: Have a lot of fun! :-)

iQA/AwUBO5PVHwM2UgbhB3TOEQIRsgCeOCk5wDv+mubRAd17JMJl+8GF250AoIoQ
J5OEQ1r/tFWjHTiHZMvYR1Tj
=Iune
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Why no HTML

[Dierk Haasis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Nick!

On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 8:07:39 PM you wrote:

> Dierk, I cannot read German, so can you give us a short blurb on just
> what the mechanism is behind the Advertiser's ability to 'track' their
> Newsletter usage?

They don't give much of an explanation. The core element of all those
programmes mentioned (Oracle's *Off-the-Shelf*, and *Constant contact*
by Roving Software, and *GotMarketing*) seems to be a kind of
re-direct through a defined server, i.e. Oracle's by means of loading
a picture. Actually you don't need a picture since the src tag can
have anything as an argument, AIUI.

The method just described is the one specifically connected with
Oracle's SW, there may be other means incorporated by other firms.
Don't forget, trojans and other malware are known to be installed on
computers through HTML.

Just at the end of last week I was making a short research on the
newest scheme pornographic sites use to get money. Most of them seem
to use now a special dial-up programme, which is installed on one's
computer and re-directing your dial-in through a 0900 (0190 in
Germany) number. Some of them don't mention anything of the sort and
install it without any interference of the user. Not unlike MS'
on-line update.

Luckily my own computer and SW do not allow such thing - and I don't
need a firewall (SW or HW for it). ;-)

BTW, Nick, could you be so kind and tell is in some days/weeks how
Becky compares overall with TB!? I trust you not just to praise one
and belittle the other but round up some crucial points, like PGP
support, templates, automation, multi-account handling etc.

Thank you!



- --
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.54 Beta/7 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

A person who smiles in the face of adversity probably has a scapegoat.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt
Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom!

iQA/AwUBO5PQXfTo1oA8g8dLEQLKqACcDAWSciQFJ9EokboF0+wOj4T1xM4An2e5
hh7F6YRAJpfj9Ad9pqXNozgd
=RMGs
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: pgp/gnupg

[Dierk Haasis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello ::Andrew::!

On Monday, September 03, 2001 at 8:16:52 PM you wrote:

>   I'm just thinking about getting to know pgp or similar in terms of
>   email encryption. Does anyone have any tips on what software is best
>   / where to download / how to implement?

Look here for a very good version: http://www.ipgpp.com/

here for more info: http://www.McCune.cc/PGP.htm

here for background: http://web.mit.edu/prz/

The first two sites give you many links for PGP info. The first has
the really good CKT version, which stays at 6.5.8 but will give you
everything you need and more.

Before you actually install PGP I advise you to read a part of the
manual originally written by Phil Zimmermann himself. You can download
the complete manual from Imad's page (the first link) or the part
mentioned here:
http://www.write4u.de/Extras/Computer/Sicherheit/PGP/pgp.html.

The page itself is in German but you will find a link in English down
to the left which is the introduction to PGP and its basic concept in
PDF format in English.

I am convinced that one has to read this, it will take about 2 or 3
hours (if you are a normal reader), but after that you know the
concept and understand PGP. Which helps a lot.





- --
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.54 Beta/7 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

The fox has many tricks, and the hedgehog only one, but that is the
best of all. (Desiderius Erasmus)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt
Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom!

iQA/AwUBO5PTovTo1oA8g8dLEQL30QCgw6xRig3h24uJ5fN0Ya++uFKi0RsAn1XS
tGXqS4l4A57QfHxt0L6h1rNr
=iaG4
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re[2]: pgp/gnupg

[::Andrew::]

Hello Dierk,

thanks for this very helpful. Do I need a particular version of pgp so
it will work seamlessly with TB.





-- 
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 ::Andrew::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  London UK

http://at.omic.co.uk

Using   The   Bat!  1.53d  on  Windows 98 4.10   Build    A


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Re[3]: pgp/gnupg

[mrten-dop]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Op maandag 3 september 2001 schreef ::Andrew:::

> Hello Dierk,

> thanks for this very helpful. Do I need a particular version of pgp so
> it will work seamlessly with TB.

i'm using version 6.5i and it gives me no problems whatsoever. my
guess is that 6.5.x versions shouldn't give any problems.

don't try to use the 7.0.x builds as there is no bat! plugin (see
downloads-area at www.ritlabs.com).

Mrten.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i

iQA/AwUBO5PiCcxmXGfKa+lHEQKw4ACePf9a9Wevd/FEnq/flvMMw43wjE8AmgPx
NhJScEgYlaqFpvsyPSWCdw8U
=ca/j
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Threads

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Peter,

On 03 September 2001 at  22:08:48 +0200 (which was 21:08 where I live)
Peter Meyns wrote to Nick Andriash and made these points:

NA>> For most it's annoying, and for Lists other than the more
NA>> tolerable TBUDL and TBBETA... it's intolerable.

PM> I don't quite understand what is annoying about this feature. I
PM> for myself like it as I can easily see who the writer is referring
PM> to. Why should it be intolerable?

What is "intolerable" is the inappropriate association of a real name
with an address that is patently not that of the person being referred
to. That is why I use the "... on XYZList" format, my compromise to
those that find it unacceptable.

I agree with you, Peter, that is makes it perfectly clear from the
message summary in the message list who it is addressed to and I can
decide whether or not I want to know more without having to get into
the text of the message.

You see, I actually find it very annoying to see individuals being
referred to as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]". That, to my mind, is even
more intolerable than implying that an individual has the address of
the list. But then what would this world look like if we all thought
the same way :-) ?

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
 ~~~
\ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com /
 \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0  |  www: http://www.silverstones.com /

TB! v1.54 Beta/7-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32)
Comment: GPG Sealed for freshness

iD8DBQE7k/WGOeQkq5KdzaARAnK0AJ9JA5H2jL9woVN1ZYm0aZDXh3AN3QCfa0Zd
4f2wWRTDPrn/dhnF6zpiTmQ=
=BFIa
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re: The Bat! as Mail-Server for Outlook on local network?

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hello TBUDL list,

Monday, September 03, 2001, 6:15:19 PM, you wrote:

AB> Hi!

AB> I know that you can use The Bat! as a server on local network, but as
AB> I have understood, the clients have to use The Bat!, too.
AB> Is it possible to use other eMail-porgs (for example Outlook) as
AB> client, so that outgoing mails are stored on The Bat! (on my Win2k
AB> system) until I go online (modem), and that incoming mails are stored
AB> either until the Outlook-client on the local network fetches them?

The bat is not a pop3 server - try IA mail server or Vpop3 for low
cost pop3 servers or Mercury MTA for a free pop3/imap implementation.

The bat works very well on a network, and you can have secure accounts
which are password protected etc.  I've only been using it for a few
days, but am very impressed.

Andrew.
-- 
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 Andrewmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re[2]: Some basic questions

[Andrew Hodgson]

Hello TBUDL list,

Monday, September 03, 2001, 6:31:26 PM, you wrote:

TF> That's because it's scrolling, and the screenreader cannot keep up. It
TF> keeps refereshing, but once it has started, it ust start refreshing
TF> again. Some blind users have discarded TB, until they were advised how
TF> to turn the MT off.

I heard this advice from another blind person - do you know if there
are any other VI people using TB?
Andrew.

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 Andrewmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re[4]: pgp/gnupg

[::Andrew::]

Hello mrten-dop,

Monday, September 03, 2001, 10:03:18 PM, you wrote:

md> i'm using version 6.5i and it gives me no problems whatsoever. my
md> guess is that 6.5.x versions shouldn't give any problems.

md> don't try to use the 7.0.x builds as there is no bat! plugin (see
md> downloads-area at www.ritlabs.com).

'Versions of PGP later than 6.5.3 may be downloaded from anywhere in
the world since US export restrictions were lifted from these versions.'

do we think this is because they've been weakened in some way?

Andrew




-- 
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 ::Andrew::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  London UK

http://at.omic.co.uk

Using   The   Bat!  1.53d  on  Windows 98 4.10   Build    A


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Re[4]: pgp/gnupg

[::Andrew::]

Hello mrten-dop,

md> don't try to use the 7.0.x builds as there is no bat! plugin (see
md> downloads-area at www.ritlabs.com).

I'm also not clear where the pgp dll's have to be put..




-- 
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 ::Andrew::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  London UK

http://at.omic.co.uk

Using   The   Bat!  1.53d  on  Windows 98 4.10   Build    A


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Re[5]: pgp/gnupg

[Ryan Phillips]

Hello ::Andrew::,

Monday, September 03, 2001, 3:16:04 PM, you wrote:

A> Hello mrten-dop,

A> Monday, September 03, 2001, 10:03:18 PM, you wrote:

md>> i'm using version 6.5i and it gives me no problems whatsoever. my
md>> guess is that 6.5.x versions shouldn't give any problems.

md>> don't try to use the 7.0.x builds as there is no bat! plugin (see
md>> downloads-area at www.ritlabs.com).

A> 'Versions of PGP later than 6.5.3 may be downloaded from anywhere in
A> the world since US export restrictions were lifted from these versions.'

A> do we think this is because they've been weakened in some way?

A> Andrew



   The sourcecode for 6.5.3 was released in printed book format for
   people outside the united states before the export restrictions
   were lifted, and then later scanned into a PC.  You can get the
   official version from www.pgpi.org

   In some cases 6.5.3 is the most secure version out there.

   The government just realized that trying to keep the cat in the bag
   is really tough to do.

-- 
Best regards,
 Ryan


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Re: pgp/gnupg

[David van Zuijlekom]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello ::Andrew::,

On Tuesday, September 04, 2001 at 23:18:11 +0100, ::Andrew:: [] wrote
concerning 'pgp/gnupg':

A> I'm also not clear where the pgp dll's have to be put..

You can just place them in the TB! folder.

- --
Best regards,
 David

** OK, I'm weird! But I'm saving up to become eccentric. **

[TB! 1.54 Beta/7] [Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2]
[Running on a Celeron 633@874 256 Mb RAM]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Build 06
Comment: PGPKeys: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_PGP_key

iQA/AwUBO5P1wFK9yf5+yp9NEQJqKACfSgHmEn0jvVvPiv9LemFAP18XarkAoMQz
5DXP912DRCsCsse3fWKS0Iqb
=+xGs
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re[5]: pgp/gnupg

[mrten-dop]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Op dinsdag 4 september 2001 schreef ::Andrew:::

> I'm also not clear where the pgp dll's have to be put..

put it in the thebat!-directory, that's c:\program files\the bat!\
with me..

Mrten.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i

iQA/AwUBO5P3DMxmXGfKa+lHEQL+1gCffqZPGiLkWiOCETKItd8m1figrBEAoJh7
Nq+wuSSdvtQedKearcEIZNJY
=CA9T
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Threads

[Nick Andriash]

On Monday, September 03 2001 at 10:10 AM PDT, David van Zuijlekom wrote:

> Pardon me for jumping in but why is it intolerable?

I'm not sure... I was only reporting on the reception I received with different 
Mailing Lists I was/am on, such as the Window 98 List. I
believe it had to do with how some Clients were filtering off of the To:
header.

-- 
Nick

   -=N.J. Andriash | Courtenay, B.C. Canada=-
Win 98SE | GnuPG v1.06 (MingW32) | Becky v2.00.07


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Re[5]: pgp/gnupg

[mrten-dop]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Op dinsdag 4 september 2001 schreef ::Andrew:::

> 'Versions of PGP later than 6.5.3 may be downloaded from anywhere in
> the world since US export restrictions were lifted from these
> versions.' do we think this is because they've been weakened in some
> way?

you might be paranoid enough to think that is so, and there are people
that still use pgp 2.x for that very reason.

the clinton administration lifted the export restrictions on
cryptography at that time, so that's the reason you can download it
from the USA now when you're not actually IN the states.

the source-code is available for all versions up to 6.5.x (x=3, i
think) so you can verify for yourself, if you want, that there are no
secret backdoors. however, the 7.0.x sourcecode WAS NOT completely
published, which made some people think that 7.0 could have some of
those hyper-sekrit rear-entry snoop-your-password entrypoints.

but for that same very reason there is no pgp-plugin for thebat!, so
you needn't worry about them backdoors anyway.

moral of the story: if you want complete secrecy, you have to check
and compile all the programs you use yourself (including the compiler
and OS that is!). i've got a story about that one as well, but that's
for a later time :)

sleep well folks,
Mrten.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i

iQA/AwUBO5P/LsxmXGfKa+lHEQLBMACg7gFHDx0D5EZ5pPcKxBnXiKHvRhcAn0K/
FXOSfS9p+Nc7sxW2jBBarozy
=Hvhl
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: pgp/gnupg

[Melissa Reese]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Monday, September 03, 2001, at 02:03:18 PM PDT, mrten-dop wrote:

> don't try to use the 7.0.x builds as there is no bat! plugin (see
> downloads-area at www.ritlabs.com).

Though there are other reasons some may not want to use a 7.x version
(source code issue), I do like to point out that plug-ins are *not*
necessary for PGP to be used with *any* mail client or text editor -
including with The Bat!.

I use The Bat! with both PGP v7.0.3. and GnuPG 1.06. No plug-ins
(well, there is a plug-in for the GnuPG, but I still prefer using the
HotKeys provided via GnuPGshell instead). I prefer using HotKeys with
both PGP and GnuPG, and there are also the menus provided via
PGPtray/Current Window and GnuPGtray/Current Window ("current window"
feature new in GnuPGshell v1.91).

I do think that TB! is the greatest mail client, and if one uses a
version of PGP or GnuPG that has a plug-in for it that's great too (if
you like the way plug-ins work), but please don't forget that with
HotKeys and PGPtray/GnuPGtray/Current Window options, PGP and GnuPG
can be used anywhere - plug-ins or not.

Melissa
- -- 
PGP public keys:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=PGP_Keys_8&Body=Please%20send%20keys

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP Personal Security 7.0.3

iQA/AwUBO5QPSY1W11L7BPLpEQLNJQCgoAFPju800drwxGCjt0YggbBz+/wAoMae
+ZrnE7v+OKTWbXVjQpHt4wgs
=+Ik6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re[6]: pgp/gnupg

[::Andrew::]

Hello mrten-dop,

Tuesday, September 04, 2001, 12:07:39 AM, you wrote:

md> moral of the story: if you want complete secrecy, you have to check
md> and compile all the programs you use yourself (including the compiler
md> and OS that is!). i've got a story about that one as well, but that's
md> for a later time :)

like most people, i guess, I hope if the source is open and there was a problem
someone would have found it and shouted loud - that's the web for ya
:)

-- 
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 ::Andrew::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  London UK

http://at.omic.co.uk

Using   The   Bat!  1.53d  on  Windows 98 4.10   Build    A


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Re[6]: pgp/gnupg

[::Andrew::]

Hello mrten-dop,

Tuesday, September 04, 2001, 12:07:39 AM, you wrote:

md> the source-code is available for all versions up to 6.5.x (x=3, i
md> think)

i just downloaded 6.5.8 so i hope it's ok ;)

-- 
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 ::Andrew::mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  London UK

http://at.omic.co.uk

Using   The   Bat!  1.53d  on  Windows 98 4.10   Build    A


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Re[4]: pgp/gnupg

[Carren]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Tuesday, September 04, 2001, 9:03:18 AM, mrten-dop wrote:


md> don't try to use the 7.0.x builds as there is no bat! plugin (see
md> downloads-area at www.ritlabs.com).

and later Melissa wrote:

md> Though there are other reasons some may not want to use a 7.x
version
md> (source code issue), I do like to point out that plug-ins are *not*
md> necessary for PGP to be used with *any* mail client or text editor
- -
md> including with The Bat!.

and:

md> I do think that TB! is the greatest mail client, and if one uses a
md> version of PGP or GnuPG that has a plug-in for it that's great too
(if
md> you like the way plug-ins work), but please don't forget that with
md> HotKeys and PGPtray/GnuPGtray/Current Window options, PGP and GnuPG
md> can be used anywhere - plug-ins or not


I second Melissa's sentiments re plugins.

I  am  a real PGP newbie and I too use TB! I am using the free version
of  PGP  and  do  not  have  any  problems  combining the two. The PGP
tray/current  window  controls  are  simple  to  use and right at your
fingertips.  While  plugins  might  be a welcome luxury to some, in my
opinion they would be only minimally quicker.

The lack of plugins is certainly *not* a good reason (or any reason)
*not* to use TB!



- -- 
Carren

For PGP Key:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=PGPkey



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBO5QSv8qIEIT739NzEQJgcwCfX7JPh0HmuNrH1iryHvRIkPPczJAAn05/
jMw/rFY7gxgGZUq+s3J1kWX9
=Ydoz
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re[5]: pgp/gnupg

[mrten-dop]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Op dinsdag 4 september 2001 schreef Carren:

> I am a real PGP newbie and I too use TB! I am using the free version
> of PGP and do not have any problems combining the two. The PGP
> tray/current window controls are simple to use and right at your
> fingertips. While plugins might be a welcome luxury to some, in my
> opinion they would be only minimally quicker.

i find it cumbersome to have to press a special key-combination every
single time i want to sign or encrypt an email. it is too easy to
forget, it is too easy to make a mistake. call me lazy if you want,
but i think that ease-of-use is a necessity for an 'extension' as PGP
to attract users (not too many of course, or PGP will be an illegal
'extension' before you know it!)

for myself, i do not think that i write email that contains enough
sekrits to warrant encryption (which is, in effect, impossible for a
list like this). for single receivers as well i find it really too
much trouble to encrypt messages. though it's nice to have the option,
of course.

i do like to sign my messages, as a gesture to the
receiver, so that he/she can check if he/she wishes that the
information in the message has not been tampered with. some people
complain about the signing, which proves that you can't please
everybody.

i am very happy that i just have to set an option which makes my
emails signed by default. a little more work at the beginning makes a
lot less work in the end.

that said; to each his own of course.

> The lack of plugins is certainly *not* a good reason (or any reason)
> *not* to use TB!

that was not what i was advocating nor what Andrew was suggesting.
since there is a plugin for 6.5.x however, this is really a moot point
:)

Mrten.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i

iQA/AwUBO5QKYsxmXGfKa+lHEQJARQCg6smC5F0kBHASn8A/2fNZBA5KOmYAn2Gq
mHR1bpuf09kHSJfEjmbZxFGi
=VWEM
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Threads

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hi All,

On  Mon,  3 Sep 2001 at 22:26:29 GMT +0100 (9/4/2001 4:26 AM GMT +0700
where  you think I live) "Marck D Pearlstone"=[MDP]typed the following
:

NA>>> For most it's annoying, and for Lists other than the more
NA>>> tolerable TBUDL and TBBETA... it's intolerable.

PM>> I don't quite understand what is annoying about this feature. I
PM>> for myself like it as I can easily see who the writer is referring
PM>> to. Why should it be intolerable?

You may put it on body text (greetings).
Threading mode makes us seeing this more easy.

> What  is  "intolerable"  is  the inappropriate association of a real
> name  with  an address that is patently not that of the person being
> referred  to.  That  is  why  I  use the "... on XYZList" format, my
> compromise to those that find it unacceptable.

Sorry I beg to differ, I found it's still disturb other member who use
other mailer that have "List Management" feature such Pine, Mutt :-(

On  other  Mailing List, I found Pine or Mutt users replied my posting
with "His Own Name on List Name " or IOW his mailer keep
"our fancy" Real Name part intact, this is ridiculous and makes really
annoying other members :-(

> You see, I actually find it very annoying to see individuals being
> referred to as "[EMAIL PROTECTED]".

Why annoying ?
>From   my   POV,   the  the  positive  think  about  "Real  Name  part
" only :
1. We know someone replied our thread or replied our post.
2. We can make "greetings" more fancy.

IMHO, point number 1 above is the job of Thread Watcher (on the wish
list). Point number 2 is subjective, on Discussion List members tend
to see what's the content more than greetings.

-- 
Best regards,

- Syafril -   mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL:  / 

Flying with The Bat! 1.53o
under Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2


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Re: Some basic questions

[Thomas F]

Hi Andrew,

On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 22:56:34 +0100GMT (04/09/2001, 05:56 +0800GMT),
Andrew Hodgson wrote:

AH> I heard this advice from another blind person - do you know if there
AH> are any other VI people using TB?

Yes. Some lurk around on this list, and many on the German TB list.
When I followed the German Jaws list, TB came up very often too. TB
has a reputation of being "VI friendly" (if that is the current
politically correct term).

There is a special wish list from blind people, and if I find it at
home, I will post it here (once). I will have to edit it, because many
features have already been implemented...

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.53o
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.


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Exchange Server Problem

[Thomas F]

Hi TBUDL,

I have an internal email address on our Exchange Server. Unlike all
other colleagues, who use Outlook, I pop with TB and used to have no
problem.

Since yesterday, however, I cannot "connect to server" any more. This
is rather weird, because the very server is on our company LAN through
which I connect to the internet anyway. I am definitely connected to
the LAN, and the colleagues don't have a problem retrieving their mail
with OL. What can be the reason that TB cannot find the server any
more?

At the same time this problem started, the date in the account log
switched from 2-digit years to 4-digit years. How did this happen?

Copy of log:

*31/08/01, 18:22:21: FETCH - receiving mail messages
+31/08/01, 18:22:21: FETCH - connected to POP3 server
+31/08/01, 18:22:22: FETCH - authenticated (plain)
*31/08/01, 18:22:22: FETCH - 0 messages in the mailbox, 0 new
+31/08/01, 18:22:22: FETCH - connection finished - 0 messages received
*31/08/01, 18:27:21: FETCH - receiving mail messages
+31/08/01, 18:27:22: FETCH - connected to POP3 server
+31/08/01, 18:27:22: FETCH - authenticated (plain)
*31/08/01, 18:27:22: FETCH - 0 messages in the mailbox, 0 new
+31/08/01, 18:27:22: FETCH - connection finished - 0 messages received
*03/09/2001, 10:30:14: FETCH - receiving mail messages
!03/09/2001, 10:31:02: FETCH - Could not connect to the server
+03/09/2001, 10:31:02: FETCH - connection finished - 0 messages received
*03/09/2001, 10:35:18: FETCH - receiving mail messages
!03/09/2001, 10:36:05: FETCH - Could not connect to the server
+03/09/2001, 10:36:05: FETCH - connection finished - 0 messages received
*03/09/2001, 10:40:28: FETCH - receiving mail messages
!03/09/2001, 10:41:14: FETCH - Could not connect to the server
+03/09/2001, 10:41:14: FETCH - connection finished - 0 messages received

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas 

Message created with The Bat! 1.53o
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.


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Re: Exchange Server Problem

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hi All,

On  Tue, 4 Sep 2001 at 13:49:32 GMT +0800 (9/4/2001 12:49 PM GMT +0700
where you think I live) "Thomas F"=[TF]typed the following :

> Since yesterday, however, I cannot "connect to server" any more. This
> is rather weird, because the very server is on our company LAN through
> which I connect to the internet anyway. I am definitely connected to
> the LAN, and the colleagues don't have a problem retrieving their mail
> with OL. What can be the reason that TB cannot find the server any
> more?

POP3 service disable on purpose.

> At the same time this problem started, the date in the account log
> switched from 2-digit years to 4-digit years. How did this happen?

Ask [EMAIL PROTECTED], perhaps he/she upgrade the service
pack of exchange or NT ?

-- 
Best regards,

- Syafril -   mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Flying with The Bat! 1.53o
under Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2


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Re: Exchange Server Problem

[Thomas F]

Hi Syafril,

On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:02:39 +0700GMT (04/09/2001, 14:02 +0800GMT),
Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

>> What can be the reason that TB cannot find the server any more?

SH> POP3 service disable on purpose.


This sys-adm. Two months ago, he allowed access to all
mailboxes without password. Once month ago, he explained to me that a
firewall isn't necessary. Last weekend, he installed a firewall,
closed the FTP ports and disabled POP3. Does he have a learning curve
or what?


>> At the same time this problem started, the date in the account log
>> switched from 2-digit years to 4-digit years. How did this happen?

SH> Ask [EMAIL PROTECTED], perhaps he/she upgrade the service
SH> pack of exchange or NT ?

So, you are saying that the server can make the logs in TB use a
different default? Is it not up to my PC, or my TB? For example, I
have set date=British (dd/mm/yy), but I believe that the others here
have set it to US (mm/yy/dd), or (if the server supports) Chinese
(yy/mm/dd).

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.53o
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.


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Latest Vers: 1.53d

Re: Exchange Server Problem

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hi All,

On  Tue, 4 Sep 2001 at 14:15:16 GMT +0800 (9/4/2001 1:15 PM GMT +0700
where you think I live) "Thomas F"=[TF]typed the following :

SH>> Ask [EMAIL PROTECTED], perhaps he/she upgrade the service
SH>> pack of exchange or NT ?

> So, you are saying that the server can make the logs in TB use a
> different default?

No.
But the logs also can reflect the communication between your PC to the
server.

> Is it not up to my PC, or my TB?

It depends on your TB!, it's use his own setting or get from
PC/Windows setting.

> For  example, I have set date=British (dd/mm/yy), but I believe that
> the  others  here  have  set  it to US (mm/yy/dd), or (if the server
> supports) Chinese (yy/mm/dd).

Don't know for sure, either my PC and TB! use 4-digit here. I am not
aware if TB! having clock/date setting, do you ?

-- 
Best regards,

- Syafril -   mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Flying with The Bat! 1.53o
under Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2


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Re: pgp/gnupg

[Dierk Haasis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello ::Andrew::!

On Tuesday, September 04, 2001 at 1:28:23 AM you wrote:

md>> the source-code is available for all versions up to 6.5.x (x=3, i
md>> think)

> i just downloaded 6.5.8 so i hope it's ok ;)

If you d'l the one I wrote about - CKT -, the source code is provided
from the same site. So, if you know someone who knows how to read it,
and knows enough mathematics, especially cryptology, you can see for
yourself.

The source code of PGP is published up to the version before 7.0
completely; since then NAI chose to not publish certain parts (see
Phil Zimmermann's statement for more info).

BTW, beware of the only known way to break PGP (short of pure violence
and stupidity): Some people always try to say PGP has been broken, but
don't come up with evidence (This goes on now for nearly 10 years, as
long as PGP exists). If an official agency wants to "break" PGP, the
best way is to tell they have a backdoor in it, even if they don't
have.



- --
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.54 Beta/7 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

Auch ein anständiger Mensch kann, vorausgesetzt, dass es nie
herauskommt, sich heutzutage einen geachteten Namen schaffen. (Karl
Kraus)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt
Comment: Privacy is the core element to Freedom!

iQA/AwUBO5RnqfTo1oA8g8dLEQJEqgCg/a8R9SkXZsK3Pfpk6+0S37mc7h0An0TO
BgFecfKDl01WLbrN+TPMGYBZ
=GyKW
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Latest Vers: 1.53d

Re: Exchange Server Problem

[Thomas F]

Hi Syafril,

On Tue, 4 Sep 2001 13:33:29 +0700GMT (04/09/2001, 14:33 +0800GMT),
Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

>> So, you are saying that the server can make the logs in TB use a
>> different default?

SH> No.
SH> But the logs also can reflect the communication between your PC to the
SH> server.

I am not convinced yet, because I think I am the only one who uses the
British date format in this office. However, I will check with the
sys-adm, who comes in about once a week, or in emergencies.

SH> Don't know for sure, either my PC and TB! use 4-digit here. I am not
SH> aware if TB! having clock/date setting, do you ?

Sorry, I mixed it up with the current beta series. No such setting in
the official release.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.53o
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.


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