RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Louise Power]

Hear, hear! I was wondering when you were going to step in. People seem to 
forget that you set up the ot board especially for topics like this. Thanks for 
bringing this to a timely end.

 

Louise 
 


From: wo...@justfamily.org
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:24:27 -0500
To: werthei...@hotmail.com
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but its 
not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.


I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.


Thanks
Charles - list administrator



On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:



If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a 
problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.


Arron




From: Nico Escamilla
[mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM


To: caveran...@yahoo.com

Cc: Cavetex

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?





I
thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still asleep
or something?

with

that behind let me just say a couple things:

first,
read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second
this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is like
the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third
most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

things

wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the world,
or my country wasnt located right next to it.

back

to my corner




Nico

  

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Charles Goldsmith]

Thanks, A Wertheim didn't like me picking his to reply to, thought it was
political in nature, saying I was pro liberal, LOL

Ah well, posts like that always get people in an uproar.

Charles

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Louise Power power_lou...@hotmail.comwrote:

  Hear, hear! I was wondering when you were going to step in. People seem to
 forget that you set up the ot board especially for topics like this. Thanks
 for bringing this to a timely end.

 Louise

 --
 From: wo...@justfamily.org
 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:24:27 -0500
 To: werthei...@hotmail.com
 CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?

 Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but
 its not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.

 I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.

 Thanks
 Charles - list administrator


 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.comwrote:

  If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a
 problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.

 Arron

  *From:* Nico Escamilla
 [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]

 *Sent:* Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM


 *To:* caveran...@yahoo.com

 *Cc:* Cavetex

 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?


  I
 thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep
 or something?

 with

 that behind let me just say a couple things:

 first,
 read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

 second
 this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is
 like
 the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

 third
 most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
 violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side
 where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because
 yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 things

 wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the
 world,
 or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 back

 to my corner


  Nico

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[A. Wertheim]

If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a 
problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.
Arron
From: Nico Escamilla
[mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM

To: caveran...@yahoo.com

Cc: Cavetex

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?
I
thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still asleep
or something?withthat behind let me just say a couple things:first,
read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NLsecond
this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is like
the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)third
most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.thingswouldnt 
be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the world,
or my country wasnt located right next to it.backto my corner
Nico
  
_
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Charles Goldsmith]

Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but
its not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.

I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.

Thanks
Charles - list administrator


On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:

  If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a
 problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.

 Arron

 *From:* Nico Escamilla
 [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]

 *Sent:* Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM


 *To:* caveran...@yahoo.com

 *Cc:* Cavetex

 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?


 I
 thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep
 or something?

 with

 that behind let me just say a couple things:

 first,
 read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

 second
 this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is
 like
 the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

 third
 most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
 violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side
 where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because
 yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 things

 wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the
 world,
 or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 back

 to my corner


 Nico

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[speleosteele]

Thanks.

Sent via BlackBerry by ATT

-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:24:27 
To: A. Wertheimwerthei...@hotmail.com
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but
its not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.

I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.

Thanks
Charles - list administrator


On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:

  If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a
 problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.

 Arron

 *From:* Nico Escamilla
 [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]

 *Sent:* Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM


 *To:* caveran...@yahoo.com

 *Cc:* Cavetex

 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?


 I
 thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep
 or something?

 with

 that behind let me just say a couple things:

 first,
 read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

 second
 this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is
 like
 the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

 third
 most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
 violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side
 where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because
 yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 things

 wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the
 world,
 or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 back

 to my corner


 Nico

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[A. Wertheim]

What- its ok to post a bunch of liberal agenda garbage until someone with half 
a mind speaks up?  What kinda administrator are you then?  You should of cut 
the thread a long time ago.  Pathetic.  


From: wo...@justfamily.org
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:24:27 -0500
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: werthei...@hotmail.com
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com

Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but its 
not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.
I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.


ThanksCharles - list administrator

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:







If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a 
problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.
Arron


From: Nico Escamilla


[mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM

To: caveran...@yahoo.com



Cc: Cavetex

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?



I
thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still asleep


or something?with

that behind let me just say a couple things:first,


read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NLsecond


this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is like
the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third
most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side


where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

thingswouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world,


or my country wasnt located right next to it.back

to my corner


Nico



  
_
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your 
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Charles Goldsmith]

Nico asked everyone to post replies over to OT, by the time I caught up and
read 20 replies with no substance, I replied once...

Should I have replied to each one?

I don't get paid to do this, I do this as a service, thanks for your
support.

Charles


On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:55 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:

  What- its ok to post a bunch of liberal agenda garbage until someone with
 half a mind speaks up?  What kinda administrator are you then?  You should
 of cut the thread a long time ago.  Pathetic.



 --
 From: wo...@justfamily.org

 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:24:27 -0500
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 To: werthei...@hotmail.com
 CC: texascavers@texascavers.com


 Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but
 its not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.

 I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.

 Thanks
 Charles - list administrator


 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.comwrote:

  If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a
 problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.

 Arron

 *From:* Nico Escamilla
 [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]

 *Sent:* Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM


 *To:* caveran...@yahoo.com

 *Cc:* Cavetex

 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?


 I
 thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep
 or something?

 with

 that behind let me just say a couple things:

 first,
 read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

 second
 this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is
 like
 the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

 third
 most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
 violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side
 where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because
 yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 things

 wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the
 world,
 or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 back

 to my corner


 Nico


 --
 Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
 inbox. See 
 how.http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Charles Goldsmith]

Listen here ass, I'm not a moderater around here, never claimed to be.

I do this as a service, out of my own pocket (yes, this does cost a bit of
cash) and my time.  I can care one iota about who believes what or what is
said, however, if I don't say something on here, I get 50 emails complaining
about 2 or 3 who speak up.

So before you go berating me cause you happened to be the one I posted to (
and CC'd the whole list), then get a clue and go complain elsewhere.  You
are certainly getting your money's worth here.

Thanks for nothing
Charles

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:06 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Then Nico should have kept his fool comments to himself in the first
 place.  but he didnt and he didnt request OT discussion in his original
 contribution (see  below).  So before you single me out for disciplinary
 action, check yourself on who all instigated the off-topic comments and
 redirect starting with the first post-er.  And if you cant moderate a forum
 with dissenting opinion then let it be.

 But thanks for intimating that my reply was the only one of substance.

 --
 From: wo...@justfamily.org
 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:58:13 -0500

 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 To: werthei...@hotmail.com

 Nico asked everyone to post replies over to OT, by the time I caught up and
 read 20 replies with no substance, I replied once...

 Should I have replied to each one?

 I don't get paid to do this, I do this as a service, thanks for your
 support.

 Charles


 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:55 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.comwrote:

  What- its ok to post a bunch of liberal agenda garbage until someone with
 half a mind speaks up?  What kinda administrator are you then?  You should
 of cut the thread a long time ago.  Pathetic.



 --
 From: wo...@justfamily.org

 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:24:27 -0500
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 To: werthei...@hotmail.com
 CC: texascavers@texascavers.com


 Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but
 its not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.

 I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.

 Thanks
 Charles - list administrator


 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.comwrote:

  If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a
 problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.

 Arron

 *From:* Nico Escamilla
 [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]

 *Sent:* Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM


 *To:* caveran...@yahoo.com

 *Cc:* Cavetex

 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?


 I
 thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep
 or something?

 with

 that behind let me just say a couple things:

 first,
 read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

 second
 this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is
 like
 the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

 third
 most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
 violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side
 where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because
 yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 things

 wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the
 world,
 or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 back

 to my corner


 Nico


 --
 Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
 inbox. See 
 how.http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2



 --
 The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with
 Hotmail. Get 
 busy.http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccountocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[A. Wertheim]

Obviously I'm getting a negative return on my investment.  Duly noted and will 
consider strongly next time the hat comes around.

Whats the difference between one email complaining and 50?  Obviously the kind 
of responders.  Thanks for trying to squash my opinion.  Why dont you just let 
everyone on the list know that only liberal, pro-mexican opinions will be 
allowed on the forum and all others go OT.
Dont worry- I understand.  Jerk.

From: wo...@justfamily.org
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:08:35 -0500
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: werthei...@hotmail.com

Listen here ass, I'm not a moderater around here, never claimed to be.
I do this as a service, out of my own pocket (yes, this does cost a bit of 
cash) and my time.  I can care one iota about who believes what or what is 
said, however, if I don't say something on here, I get 50 emails complaining 
about 2 or 3 who speak up.


So before you go berating me cause you happened to be the one I posted to ( and 
CC'd the whole list), then get a clue and go complain elsewhere.  You are 
certainly getting your money's worth here.


Thanks for nothingCharles

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:06 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:







Then Nico should have kept his fool comments to himself in the first place.  
but he didnt and he didnt request OT discussion in his original contribution 
(see  below).  So before you single me out for disciplinary action, check 
yourself on who all instigated the off-topic comments and redirect starting 
with the first post-er.  And if you cant moderate a forum with dissenting 
opinion then let it be.


But thanks for intimating that my reply was the only one of substance.

From: wo...@justfamily.org
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:58:13 -0500


Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: werthei...@hotmail.com

Nico asked everyone to post replies over to OT, by the time I caught up and 
read 20 replies with no substance, I replied once...  


Should I have replied to each one?
I don't get paid to do this, I do this as a service, thanks for your support.


Charles

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:55 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:







What- its ok to post a bunch of liberal agenda garbage until someone with half 
a mind speaks up?  What kinda administrator are you then?  You should of cut 
the thread a long time ago.  Pathetic.  






From: wo...@justfamily.org
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:24:27 -0500
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?




To: werthei...@hotmail.com
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com



Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but its 
not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.
I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.






ThanksCharles - list administrator

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:











If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a 
problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.
Arron






From: Nico Escamilla






[mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM

To: caveran...@yahoo.com







Cc: Cavetex

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?







I
thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still asleep






or something?with





that behind let me just say a couple things:first,






read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NLsecond


this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is like
the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)





third
most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side






where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.





thingswouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world,






or my country wasnt located right next to it.back





to my corner


Nico







  
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your 
inbox. See how.





  
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with 
Hotmail. Get busy.



  
_
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccountocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Charles Goldsmith]

You invested?  Since I took over the list in 2005, I don't see where you
have ever donated to me, perhaps you did it through a grotto or TSA, if so,
let me know how much and I'll gladly refund it to you to get you out of my
hair.

Why do you insist on thinking this is political??  I'm just trying to keep
the peace, and you just happened to be the last one who posted, so I replied
to the thread.

And yes, me sending that email out caused you to berate me needlessly
through several emails, so thanks for wasting my time.


On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:24 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Obviously I'm getting a negative return on my investment.  Duly noted and
 will consider strongly next time the hat comes around.


 Whats the difference between one email complaining and 50?  Obviously the
 kind of responders.  Thanks for trying to squash *my* opinion.  Why dont
 you just let everyone on the list know that only liberal, pro-mexican
 opinions will be allowed on the forum and all others go OT.

 Dont worry- I understand.  Jerk.


 --
 From: wo...@justfamily.org
 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:08:35 -0500

 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 To: werthei...@hotmail.com

 Listen here ass, I'm not a moderater around here, never claimed to be.

 I do this as a service, out of my own pocket (yes, this does cost a bit of
 cash) and my time.  I can care one iota about who believes what or what is
 said, however, if I don't say something on here, I get 50 emails complaining
 about 2 or 3 who speak up.

 So before you go berating me cause you happened to be the one I posted to (
 and CC'd the whole list), then get a clue and go complain elsewhere.  You
 are certainly getting your money's worth here.

 Thanks for nothing
 Charles

 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:06 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.comwrote:

  Then Nico should have kept his fool comments to himself in the first
 place.  but he didnt and he didnt request OT discussion in his original
 contribution (see  below).  So before you single me out for disciplinary
 action, check yourself on who all instigated the off-topic comments and
 redirect starting with the first post-er.  And if you cant moderate a forum
 with dissenting opinion then let it be.

 But thanks for intimating that my reply was the only one of substance.

 --
 From: wo...@justfamily.org
 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:58:13 -0500

 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 To: werthei...@hotmail.com

 Nico asked everyone to post replies over to OT, by the time I caught up and
 read 20 replies with no substance, I replied once...

 Should I have replied to each one?

 I don't get paid to do this, I do this as a service, thanks for your
 support.

 Charles


 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:55 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.comwrote:

  What- its ok to post a bunch of liberal agenda garbage until someone with
 half a mind speaks up?  What kinda administrator are you then?  You should
 of cut the thread a long time ago.  Pathetic.



 --
 From: wo...@justfamily.org

 Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:24:27 -0500
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 To: werthei...@hotmail.com
 CC: texascavers@texascavers.com


 Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but
 its not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.

 I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.

 Thanks
 Charles - list administrator


 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.comwrote:

  If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a
 problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.

 Arron

 *From:* Nico Escamilla
 [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]

 *Sent:* Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM


 *To:* caveran...@yahoo.com

 *Cc:* Cavetex

 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?


 I
 thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep
 or something?

 with

 that behind let me just say a couple things:

 first,
 read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

 second
 this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is
 like
 the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

 third
 most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
 violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side
 where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because
 yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 things

 wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the
 world,
 or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 back

 to my corner


 Nico


 --
 Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
 inbox. See

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[A. Wertheim]

Fine- we're even.  Woudlnt want my money back anyways cause I know you're not 
making a profit.  

From: wo...@justfamily.org
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:33:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: werthei...@hotmail.com

You invested?  Since I took over the list in 2005, I don't see where you have 
ever donated to me, perhaps you did it through a grotto or TSA, if so, let me 
know how much and I'll gladly refund it to you to get you out of my hair.


Why do you insist on thinking this is political??  I'm just trying to keep the 
peace, and you just happened to be the last one who posted, so I replied to the 
thread.
And yes, me sending that email out caused you to berate me needlessly through 
several emails, so thanks for wasting my time.



On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:24 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:







Obviously I'm getting a negative return on my investment.  Duly noted and will 
consider strongly next time the hat comes around.

Whats the difference between one email complaining and 50?  Obviously the kind 
of responders.  Thanks for trying to squash my opinion.  Why dont you just let 
everyone on the list know that only liberal, pro-mexican opinions will be 
allowed on the forum and all others go OT.


Dont worry- I understand.  Jerk.

From: wo...@justfamily.org
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:08:35 -0500


Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: werthei...@hotmail.com

Listen here ass, I'm not a moderater around here, never claimed to be.


I do this as a service, out of my own pocket (yes, this does cost a bit of 
cash) and my time.  I can care one iota about who believes what or what is 
said, however, if I don't say something on here, I get 50 emails complaining 
about 2 or 3 who speak up.




So before you go berating me cause you happened to be the one I posted to ( and 
CC'd the whole list), then get a clue and go complain elsewhere.  You are 
certainly getting your money's worth here.




Thanks for nothingCharles

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:06 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:









Then Nico should have kept his fool comments to himself in the first place.  
but he didnt and he didnt request OT discussion in his original contribution 
(see  below).  So before you single me out for disciplinary action, check 
yourself on who all instigated the off-topic comments and redirect starting 
with the first post-er.  And if you cant moderate a forum with dissenting 
opinion then let it be.




But thanks for intimating that my reply was the only one of substance.

From: wo...@justfamily.org
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:58:13 -0500




Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: werthei...@hotmail.com

Nico asked everyone to post replies over to OT, by the time I caught up and 
read 20 replies with no substance, I replied once...  




Should I have replied to each one?
I don't get paid to do this, I do this as a service, thanks for your support.


Charles

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:55 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:







What- its ok to post a bunch of liberal agenda garbage until someone with half 
a mind speaks up?  What kinda administrator are you then?  You should of cut 
the thread a long time ago.  Pathetic.  








From: wo...@justfamily.org
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:24:27 -0500
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?






To: werthei...@hotmail.com
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com



Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these topics, but its 
not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT list.
I do not want to see anymore postings on this subject.








ThanksCharles - list administrator

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com wrote:













If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it wouldnt be such a 
problem.  Maybe you should just legalize it.
Arron








From: Nico Escamilla








[mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM

To: caveran...@yahoo.com









Cc: Cavetex

Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?









I
thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still asleep








or something?with







that behind let me just say a couple things:first,








read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NLsecond


this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this is like
the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)







third
most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side








where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Andy Grubbs]

thanks: I am tired of deleting  you have my support on this

Charles Goldsmith wrote:

 Ok, this is enough, people are obviously passionate about these
 topics, but its not related to caving directly.  Take it to the OT
 list. I do not want to see anymore postings on this
 subject. ThanksCharles - list administrator
 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 2:37 PM, A. Wertheim werthei...@hotmail.com
 wrote:

  If your people didnt provide the demand then maybe it
  wouldnt be such a problem.  Maybe you should just legalize
  it. Arron
  From: Nico Escamilla

  [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]

  Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM


  To: caveran...@yahoo.com

  Cc: Cavetex
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why
  Haven't We
  Heard?

  I

  thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles,
  are you still asleep
  or something?
  with
  that behind let me just say a couple things:
  first,

  read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
  second

  this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace
  seized (this is like
  the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
  third

  most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop
  complaining about
  violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is
  exactly that side
  where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are
  better armed because
  yall�s government cant do shit about arms coming into my
  country.
  things
  wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug
  consumer in the world,

  or my country wasnt located right next to it.
  back
  to my corner

  Nico

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Rod Goke]

The question of fault:Is it the United States' fault for banning drugs and creating a lucrative demand for criminals to smuggle drugs northwards, or is it Mexico's fault for banning guns and creating a lucrative demand for criminals to smuggle guns southward?That issue ranks right up there with life's other great questions, like "Which blade of the scissors is responsible for the cutting?"A serious question about gun sources for Mexican criminals:Some people, especially some in the Mexican government, have complained that Mexican criminals are obtaining guns by smuggling them from the U.S. into Mexico, and there is evidence indicating that this is true to some degree. There also have been many news reports indicating that organized criminal gangs in Mexico have been able to bribe, intimidate, or otherwise induce significant numbers of Mexican police and military personnel to work for the criminals. This, of course, does not imply that all, or even most, of the Mexican police or military personnel are corrupt, but the reports do seem to indicate that the gangs have been able to buy enough influence of this type to be a major and growing problem in portions of Mexico. In this case, I wonder how many of the military and police style weapons flowing to Mexican criminals are coming from corrupt sources in the Mexican police and military and, hence, would continue to be available to criminals there even if all gun smuggling from the United States were eliminated. Not surprisingly, the Mexican government doesn't say much, if anything, about this aspect of the problem, but for anyone seriously interested in how criminals are getting guns in Mexico, it is important to understand how many guns are coming through each channel instead of just pointing fingers across the border at convenient scapegoats.Rod


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Nico Escamilla]

Im taking this thread to the OT list

Rod,

Certainly, it is well know that these bad people have bought many a local
police department  as well as state and hav'em working for them (I know that
for a fact) however your point is not really valid here... with the
exception of the Army, 50 cal Barrets, AKs RPGs and so on are not issued to
law enforcement, so saying that this weapons might come from Mexican
authorities makes no sense.

Guns arent banned here, you just cant walk around carrying one.

Nico

On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Rod Goke rod.g...@earthlink.net wrote:

  The question of fault:

 Is it the United States' fault for banning drugs and creating a lucrative
 demand for criminals to smuggle drugs northwards, or is it Mexico's fault
 for banning guns and creating a lucrative demand for criminals to smuggle
 guns southward? That issue ranks right up there with life's other great
 questions, like Which blade of the scissors is responsible for the
 cutting?


 A serious question about gun sources for Mexican criminals:

 Some people, especially some in the Mexican government, have complained
 that Mexican criminals are obtaining guns by smuggling them from the U.S.
 into Mexico, and there is evidence indicating that this is true to some
 degree. There also have been many news reports indicating that organized
 criminal gangs in Mexico have been able to bribe, intimidate, or otherwise
 induce significant numbers of Mexican police and military personnel to work
 for the criminals. This, of course, does not imply that all, or even most,
 of the Mexican police or military personnel are corrupt, but the reports do
 seem to indicate that the gangs have been able to buy enough influence of
 this type to be a major and growing problem in portions of Mexico. In this
 case, I wonder how many of the military and police style weapons flowing to
 Mexican criminals are coming from corrupt sources in the Mexican police and
 military and, hence, would continue to be available to criminals there even
 if all gun smuggling from the United States were eliminated. Not
 surprisingly, the Mexican government doesn't say much, if anything, about
 this aspect of the problem, but for anyone seriously interested in how
 criminals are getting guns in Mexico, it is important to understand how many
 guns are coming through each channel instead of just pointing fingers across
 the border at convenient scapegoats.

 Rod



 - Visit
 our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
 texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail:
 texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Scott Nicholson]

Guns are not, and never have been, the problem.  The problem, in my humble 
opinion, are the drug laws in the USA which create the lucrative black market, 
and also the war on drugs (a 100% failure in every regard) which has cost about 
a Trillion Dollars so far...

A very reasonable analogy is the Prohibition experiment years ago. When alcohol 
was illegal there was a strong incentive for the mob to becocme 
involvedviolence and profiteering ensued.  When Prohbition was repealed, 
the violence and profiteering associated with the illegal alcohol black market 
subsided almost immediately.

Just my two cents 
 Scott Nicholson, Broker
512-947-2688
Marketplace Real Estate
www.DiscoveryAustin.com






From: Nico Escamilla pitboun...@gmail.com
To: Rod Goke rod.g...@ieee.org
Cc: Off Topic o...@texascavers.com
Sent: Sat, June 5, 2010 12:20:41 PM
Subject: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why 
Haven't We Heard?


Im taking this thread to the OT list

Rod,

Certainly, it is well know that these bad people have bought many a local 
police department  as well as state and hav'em working for them (I know that 
for a fact) however your point is not really valid here... with the exception 
of the Army, 50 cal Barrets, AKs RPGs and so on are not issued to law 
enforcement, so saying that this weapons might come from Mexican authorities 
makes no sense.

Guns arent banned here, you just cant walk around carrying one.

Nico


On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Rod Goke rod.g...@earthlink.net wrote:

The question of fault:

Is it the United States' fault for banning drugs and creating a lucrative 
demand for criminals to smuggle drugs northwards, or is it Mexico's fault for 
banning guns and creating a lucrative demand for criminals to smuggle guns 
southward? That issue ranks right up there with life's other great questions, 
like Which blade of the scissors is responsible for the cutting? 




A serious question about gun sources for Mexican criminals:


Some people, especially some in the Mexican government, have complained that 
Mexican criminals are obtaining guns by smuggling them from the U.S. into 
Mexico, and there is evidence indicating that this is true to some degree. 
There also have been many news reports indicating that organized criminal 
gangs in Mexico have been able to bribe, intimidate, or otherwise induce 
significant numbers of Mexican police and military personnel to work for the 
criminals. This, of course, does not imply that all, or even most, of the 
Mexican police or military personnel are corrupt, but the reports do seem to 
indicate that the gangs have been able to buy enough influence of this type to 
be a major and growing problem in portions of Mexico. In this case, I wonder 
how many of the military and police style weapons flowing to Mexican criminals 
are coming from corrupt sources in the Mexican police and military and, hence, 
would continue to be available to criminals there
 even if all gun smuggling from the United States were eliminated. Not 
surprisingly, the Mexican government doesn't say much, if anything, about this 
aspect of the problem, but for anyone seriously interested in how criminals are 
getting guns in Mexico, it is important to understand how many guns are coming 
through each channel instead of just pointing fingers across the border at 
convenient scapegoats.


Rod





- Visit 
our website: http://texascavers.com/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com 

[Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[caveran...@yahoo.com]

Just passing this along (from a retired BP agent I know).
See pix of arms confiscated in Moneterrey, NL, MX
AM

--- On Thu, 6/3/10, Bill White wwhit...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Bill White wwhit...@gmail.com

List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 8:03 PM



Mexico needs help in cleaning up this stuff!!  Rather have the war there than 
here.
 
Bill










Subject: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 3:53 PM



I received the following news article and pictures from my buddy who is a 
retired Border Patrol Intelligence Officer I used to work with.  It's from BNO 
News (Breaking News Now), which is a recently formed Wire Service.  Information 
about them can be found in the following link.
 
http://www.bnonews.com/
 
What's ironic about this, is that the mainstream news media doesn't acknowledge 
that these things are not just happening in Mexico, they're spilling over into 
the United States on a regular basis.
 
Clyde
-
In a message dated 6/1/2010 1:00:24 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
-@gmail.com  writes:




May 12th, 2010 - 5:18 am CT by BNO News - 
 
MONTERREY , MEXICO ( BNO NEWS) — The Mexican Army on Tuesday 
seized a huge drug-cartel weapons cache in the northern state of Nuevo 
Leon, local media reported. 
  
The cache of 130 assault rifles, machine guns, grenades, grenade launchers, 
hundreds of rounds of ammunition and a rocket launcher was seized at a 
ranch in Higueras, northwest of Monterrey , the El Norte newspaper reported. 
  
When the military arrived, a gunfight ensued and one gunman was killed, 
the newspaper added quoting military sources. 
  
An unknown number of gunmen escaped leaving the weapons cache and 
at least 12 SUVs containing military and police accessories. Then read 
the following... and get angr(ier)! 
  
This is the same Mexican border that Obama and all the Anti-Arizona law 
whiners want you to believe is just crossed by simple men and women 
wanting to 'better' themselves... 
  
Not only are Iranians, Egyptians, Somalis and numerous other other than 
Mexican nationalities apprehended daily by the Border Patrol - but the 
Zetas (made up of police and ex-military special forces members) have 
become stronger and so well armed in the last two years that it is only a 
matter of time before their well-planned violence spills over into our side 
of the border. 
  
This seizure was five days ago.  Exactly where did you hear about it in OUR 
media ? 

(Oh yeah, they're too damn busy beating up on Arizona for doing what EVERY 
state had better do - sooner rather than later - PROTECT THEIR CITIZENS FROM 
ALL ILLEGALS.) 
  
Let's quit trying to decide who is violating our federal laws to make a better 
life - and ENFORCE the laws across the board on EVERYONE violating 
them - Nothing discriminatory about that amigos !!! 
  
That way we won't have to lament or wonder just how many of the illegal 
aliens legalized (synonymous with rewarded) under the latest attempt to 
legislate away the millions who have spit on our laws - are MS-13, Zetas, 
cartel members, and other scum that would be legal. 
  
There are MANY Hispanic men and women that I both love and respect that 
understand and support Arizona and any citizen's desire to keep our country 
a safe place to live and raise our children and grandchildren. 
  
I hope we can ignore and recognize the majority of the naysayers for the 
photo-op, attention-loving clowns they are - and start coming together as 
AMERICANS that want what's best for AMERICA !!! 
  







 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 



 

 












































































-- 
Bill
Del Rio, TX



  

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Nico Escamilla]

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
asleep or something?

with that behind let me just say a couple things:
first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
(this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

back to my corner

Nico

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com
caveran...@yahoo.comwrote:





 --
 Bill
 Del Rio, TX

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[SS]

You mean we actually EXPORT something!   This is good news  

 

  _  

From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
Heard?

 

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
asleep or something?

 

with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
(this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 

back to my corner

 

Nico

 

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com caveran...@yahoo.com
wrote:





-- 
Bill
Del Rio, TX

 

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Nico Escamilla]

yup, yall are exporting alright.. doesnt necesarily mean its good news.

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:53 AM, SS back2scool...@hotmail.com wrote:

  You mean we actually EXPORT something!   This is good news


  --

 *From:* Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
 *To:* caveran...@yahoo.com
 *Cc:* Cavetex
 *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?



 I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep or something?



 with that behind let me just say a couple things:

 first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

 second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
 (this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

 third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
 about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
 side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.



 things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
 the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.



 back to my corner



 Nico



 On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com caveran...@yahoo.com
 wrote:





 --
 Bill
 Del Rio, TX

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Fritz Holt]

Sounds like a familiar blame game.

Fritz


From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

with that behind let me just say a couple things:
first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

back to my corner

Nico

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, 
caveran...@yahoo.commailto:caveran...@yahoo.com 
caveran...@yahoo.commailto:caveran...@yahoo.com wrote:




--
Bill
Del Rio, TX

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Stefan Creaser]

I'm gonna side with Nico :-)

 

From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

Sounds like a familiar blame game.

 

Fritz

 



From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

 

with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 

back to my corner

 

Nico

 

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com caveran...@yahoo.com 
wrote:





-- 
Bill
Del Rio, TX

 


-- 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
medium.  Thank you.

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Mike Gross]

Nico--

Bravo.
I was about to reply to caverannie and ask her to send the right wing crap 
somewhere else.
In addition to the fact that nearly all weapons in Mexico are from the US 
(among the most intractable problems for Mexican law enforcement), and that 
nearly all demand for illegal drugs is from the US,
there is also the fact -- reported in today's Austin and probably other 
newspapers -- that FBI statistics show that the area of the Mexico border 
is actually safer -- in terms of violent crime -- than many other parts of 
Texas and the country.


Saludos

Mike Gross


At 08:15 AM 6/4/2010 -0700, Stefan Creaser wrote:


Im gonna side with Nico :-)



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?



Sounds like a familiar blame game.



Fritz



--
From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?



I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?




with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized 
(this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)


third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining 
about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly 
that side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better 
armed because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.




things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer 
in the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.




back to my corner



Nico



On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, 
mailto:caveran...@yahoo.comcaveran...@yahoo.com 
mailto:caveran...@yahoo.comcaveran...@yahoo.com wrote:






--
Bill
Del Rio, TX



--

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the 
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the 
information in any medium.  Thank you.

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Thomas Sitch]

Riight.  Because grenades are readily available in the United States.  I 
buy them at 7-11 all the time so I can run 'em down south.


--- On Fri, 6/4/10, Mike Gross mgr...@cwa-tseu.org wrote:


From: Mike Gross mgr...@cwa-tseu.org
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.com, Fritz Holt 
fh...@townandcountryins.com, caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 10:29 AM


Nico--

Bravo. 
I was about to reply to caverannie and ask her to send the right wing crap 
somewhere else. 
In addition to the fact that nearly all weapons in Mexico are from the US 
(among the most intractable problems for Mexican law enforcement), and that 
nearly all demand for illegal drugs is from the US,
there is also the fact -- reported in today's Austin and probably other 
newspapers -- that FBI statistics show that the area of the Mexico border is 
actually safer -- in terms of violent crime -- than many other parts of Texas 
and the country.

Saludos

Mike Gross


At 08:15 AM 6/4/2010 -0700, Stefan Creaser wrote:


Im gonna side with Nico :-)

 

From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

Sounds like a familiar blame game.

 

Fritz

 



From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: caveran...@yahoo.com
Cc: Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

 

I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

 

with that behind let me just say a couple things:

first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL

second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)

third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 

back to my corner

 

Nico

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[egelsone]

Hey!

Wait a minute Nico, I hear from one side that if it were not for our demand for 
the drugs, there would be no drug war.  The same thing goes for weapons. If the 
drug cartels did not want them (guns), there would be no export business for 
them.

That said, why blame Americans for the guns? We make very few. They come from 
all over world.  The AK 47 is not American made.

Back to lurking..Ed



 Sheryl Rieck shri...@cableone.net wrote: 
 Okay. I have to pipe in here. I seem to recall the US putting huge pressure
 on Mexico about the war on drugs some number of years ago. Does anyone else
 remember that? Funny that we didn’t have these problems before that? Be
 careful what you wish for or you will surely get it. ;-)
 
  
 
 Sheryl
 
  
 
 From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] 
 Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:16 AM
 To: Fritz Holt; Nico Escamilla; caveran...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Cavetex
 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 
  
 
 I’m gonna side with Nico :-)
 
  
 
 From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
 Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
 To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Cavetex
 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 
  
 
 Sounds like a familiar blame game.
 
  
 
 Fritz
 
  
 
   _  
 
 From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
 To: caveran...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Cavetex
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 
  
 
 I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep or something?
 
  
 
 with that behind let me just say a couple things:
 
 first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
 
 second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
 (this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
 
 third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
 about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
 side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.
 
  
 
 things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
 the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.
 
  
 
 back to my corner
 
  
 
 Nico
 
  
 
 On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com caveran...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Bill
 Del Rio, TX
 
  
 
 -- 
 
 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
 information in any medium.  Thank you.
 


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Stefan Creaser]

I think you'll find it's because guns are readily available here, not because 
they are made here.

You can walk into a gun shop here and buy an AK-47, you don’t have to go to 
Romania or China...

Stefan

-Original Message-
From: egels...@satx.rr.com [mailto:egels...@satx.rr.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:24 AM
To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com; 'Fritz Holt'; Sheryl Rieck; Stefan 
Creaser
Cc: 'Cavetex'
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

Hey!

Wait a minute Nico, I hear from one side that if it were not for our demand for 
the drugs, there would be no drug war.  The same thing goes for weapons. If the 
drug cartels did not want them (guns), there would be no export business for 
them.

That said, why blame Americans for the guns? We make very few. They come from 
all over world.  The AK 47 is not American made.

Back to lurking..Ed



 Sheryl Rieck shri...@cableone.net wrote: 
 Okay. I have to pipe in here. I seem to recall the US putting huge pressure
 on Mexico about the war on drugs some number of years ago. Does anyone else
 remember that? Funny that we didn’t have these problems before that? Be
 careful what you wish for or you will surely get it. ;-)
 
  
 
 Sheryl
 
  
 
 From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] 
 Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:16 AM
 To: Fritz Holt; Nico Escamilla; caveran...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Cavetex
 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 
  
 
 I’m gonna side with Nico :-)
 
  
 
 From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com] 
 Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 10:00 AM
 To: 'Nico Escamilla'; caveran...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Cavetex
 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 
  
 
 Sounds like a familiar blame game.
 
  
 
 Fritz
 
  
 
   _  
 
 From: Nico Escamilla [mailto:pitboun...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 9:49 AM
 To: caveran...@yahoo.com
 Cc: Cavetex
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We
 Heard?
 
  
 
 I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep or something?
 
  
 
 with that behind let me just say a couple things:
 
 first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
 
 second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
 (this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
 
 third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
 about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
 side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.
 
  
 
 things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
 the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.
 
  
 
 back to my corner
 
  
 
 Nico
 
  
 
 On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com caveran...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Bill
 Del Rio, TX
 
  
 
 -- 
 
 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
 confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
 recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
 contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
 information in any medium.  Thank you.
 

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Charles Goldsmith]

Those weren't attachments, those were inline links since the email came
through HTML formatted :)

Governments can't stop guns if bad guys want to get them.  All they can do
is stop the honest citizen from getting them.

Charles

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Nico Escamilla pitboun...@gmail.com wrote:

 I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still
 asleep or something?

 with that behind let me just say a couple things:
 first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
 second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized
 (this is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
 third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining
 about violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that
 side where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed
 because yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

 things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in
 the world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

 back to my corner

 Nico

 On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, caveran...@yahoo.com caveran...@yahoo.com
  wrote:





 --
 Bill
 Del Rio, TX

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[caverarch]

How about back to caving?



Back to lurking..

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Gill Edigar]

1st, I agree with Nico. Period.
2nd, The whole thing is caused by a demand for illegal drugs in the US.
Without that demand there would be no drug smuggling of any sort.
3rd, the solution is to simply make those drugs legal and put the smugglers
out of business.
4th, instead of executing all illegal drug users we should execute all drug
abusers--of legal or illegal drugs. That would include a whole lot of
geezers who are doing their own personal drug abuse programs and enriching
the big international legal drug cartels. As a lot of those geezers (not all
by any means) are overly conservative and intent on telling other people how
to live righteously we would be better off having them off the voting roles,
as well. Those drug users who are not drug abusers, of course, would be free
to be free. Free to grow their own drugs; free to use their own drugs; free
to do whatever they want so long as they are not abusing their fellow
Americans--be they from North Americans or South Americans.
--Ediger

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:55 AM, cavera...@aol.com wrote:

 How about back to caving?


 Back to lurking..

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Fritz Holt]

Whoever initiated this dumb string should have at least put it on OT.

F.


From: cavera...@aol.com [mailto:cavera...@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:56 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

How about back to caving?

Back to lurking..

RE: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Fritz Holt]

My sentiments precisely.

Fritz - NRA life member and law abiding citizen.


From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Nico Escamilla
Cc: caveran...@yahoo.com; Cavetex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

Those weren't attachments, those were inline links since the email came through 
HTML formatted :)

Governments can't stop guns if bad guys want to get them.  All they can do is 
stop the honest citizen from getting them.

Charles
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Nico Escamilla 
pitboun...@gmail.commailto:pitboun...@gmail.com wrote:
I thought attachments werent allowed on the list.. Charles, are you still 
asleep or something?

with that behind let me just say a couple things:
first, read through, it was not Monterrey but Higueras NL
second this is not the first gun cache that our armed forces hace seized (this 
is like the fourth or fifth one and others have been larger)
third most if not all of this weapons are gringo made so stop complaining about 
violence spilling over to your side of the river if it is exactly that side 
where this weapons are coming from.. yes the bad guys are better armed because 
yall´s government cant do shit about arms coming into my country.

things wouldnt be this way if your country wasnt the major drug consumer in the 
world, or my country wasnt located right next to it.

back to my corner

Nico

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:01 AM, 
caveran...@yahoo.commailto:caveran...@yahoo.com 
caveran...@yahoo.commailto:caveran...@yahoo.com wrote:




--
Bill
Del Rio, TX

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[Nico Escamilla]

Dont get me wrong y'all.. Im pro gun, own several and use them responsibly..
I just dont like it when people start ranting about the violence in my neck
of the woods and how it can start affecting them when they (or their
government for that matter) are also to blame.

Yes, legalizing drugs would really help (that would create a massive public
health problem but I digress) is it going to happen? not in this lifetime
and specially not in this continent where the authorities have gotten in bed
with the drug lords, so to speak.. legalizing will mean that
politicians/authorities will no longer be able to fill their pockets with
bribe money so it'd be like slaughtering the cow thats giving you the milk.

In short if you wanna blame it on somebody, do it on the germans.. they're
the ones who started all of this, for those of you that didnt know, they
started bribing mexican authorities  during WWII to let them smugle drugs
into the states so that the gringo youth would get hooked on them, why? to
make them not want to go to war of course...

if anyone else feels like continuing this thread, please take it to the OT
list. I will not respond to it if it comes to cavetex.

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[caverarch]

Well done to suggest this thread goes to OT, Nico.  This is far more 
interesting and important than Locklear's sharing, but it doesn't have any 
direct bearing on caving.  That's why I made my previous supporting comment 
directly to you.  There I referred to a New York Times story about how guns 
used in Mexican cartel violence were traced to five gun shops in Houston, and 
that I knew four of the five shops - because I had bought guns in each one.  
And out of a group including the big Carter's Country stores the only one that 
lost its Federal firearms license was a literally Mom and Pop, Hispanic-owned 
place on north US 59 called the Father and Son Swap Shop.  They claim to have 
only sold three weapons, while Carter sold dozens.  


Thanks for sharing the German matter.  I'm always interested in such matters of 
history - including pointing out that the Republic of Mexico has lost a lot 
(take Texas, California,etc as we did.) due to the accident of geographical 
proximity with the US that you pointed out. 


Roger Moore





-Original Message-
From: Nico Escamilla pitboun...@gmail.com
To: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com
Cc: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org; caveran...@yahoo.com 
caveran...@yahoo.com; Cavetex texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Fri, Jun 4, 2010 3:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?


Dont get me wrong y'all.. Im pro gun, own several and use them responsibly.. I 
just dont like it when people start ranting about the violence in my neck of 
the woods and how it can start affecting them when they (or their government 
for that matter) are also to blame.
 
Yes, legalizing drugs would really help (that would create a massive public 
health problem but I digress) is it going to happen? not in this lifetime and 
specially not in this continent where the authorities have gotten in bed with 
the drug lords, so to speak.. legalizing will mean that politicians/authorities 
will no longer be able to fill their pockets with bribe money so it'd be like 
slaughtering the cow thats giving you the milk.
 
In short if you wanna blame it on somebody, do it on the germans.. they're the 
ones who started all of this, for those of you that didnt know, they started 
bribing mexican authorities  during WWII to let them smugle drugs into the 
states so that the gringo youth would get hooked on them, why? to make them not 
want to go to war of course...
 
if anyone else feels like continuing this thread, please take it to the OT 
list. I will not respond to it if it comes to cavetex.
 

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?

[caveran...@yahoo.com]

FWIW. I didn't say anythng, just thought people who go caving in MX might 
find the article interesting coming from BP people.
 
I live in Del Rio and Cd Acuna is becoming a ghost town (tourist-wise).  A 
restaraunt owner named Manuel was sick of being leaned on by these cartel and 
he now owns Manuel's in Del Rio, shut down his restaraunt in Cd Acuna  moved 
it here. Now there are rumors that the f*ck*rs want to bomb Manuel's when it's 
full of people!  Great!
 
I work for the marina on Lake Amistad and possible boat renters are calling 
every day asking about the border situation on the lake, especially since 
Falcon Lake is having issues right now.  Some are even cancelling their 
reservations not wanting to chance it.
 
I used to go to Acuna when friends and family came to visit, plus I had quite a 
bit of dental work done there.  But when my friends' relatives who work for 
homeland security started getting nervous about their friends and family going 
across the border, so did I.  
 
I don't own a gun, but used one when I worked in law enforcement many moons ago.
I don't do any illegal drugs, nor do I even buy anything from the pharmacias in 
MX.  My meds are cheaper through my insurance.  Insurance didn't pay squat for 
dental which is why I went to MX for dental work.  I will not go there now as 
not only am I afraid to go to MX, but I still don't own a passport and probably 
won't, so feel free to blast me over anything I said here.

AM

 

--- On Fri, 6/4/10, cavera...@aol.com cavera...@aol.com wrote:


From: cavera...@aol.com cavera...@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?
To: pitboun...@gmail.com, fh...@townandcountryins.com
Cc: wo...@justfamily.org, caveran...@yahoo.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Friday, June 4, 2010, 3:33 PM



Well done to suggest this thread goes to OT, Nico.  This is far more 
interesting and important than Locklear's sharing, but it doesn't have any 
direct bearing on caving.  That's why I made my previous supporting comment 
directly to you.  There I referred to a New York Times story about how guns 
used in Mexican cartel violence were traced to five gun shops in Houston, and 
that I knew four of the five shops - because I had bought guns in each one.  
And out of a group including the big Carter's Country stores the only one that 
lost its Federal firearms license was a literally Mom and Pop, Hispanic-owned 
place on north US 59 called the Father and Son Swap Shop.  They claim to have 
only sold three weapons, while Carter sold dozens.  

Thanks for sharing the German matter.  I'm always interested in such matters of 
history - including pointing out that the Republic of Mexico has lost a lot 
(take Texas, California,etc as we did.) due to the accident of geographical 
proximity with the US that you pointed out.  


Roger Moore





-Original Message-
From: Nico Escamilla pitboun...@gmail.com
To: Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com
Cc: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org; caveran...@yahoo.com 
caveran...@yahoo.com; Cavetex texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Fri, Jun 4, 2010 3:07 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Fw: Scary Border Stuff...Why Haven't We Heard?



Dont get me wrong y'all.. Im pro gun, own several and use them responsibly.. I 
just dont like it when people start ranting about the violence in my neck of 
the woods and how it can start affecting them when they (or their government 
for that matter) are also to blame.
 
Yes, legalizing drugs would really help (that would create a massive public 
health problem but I digress) is it going to happen? not in this lifetime and 
specially not in this continent where the authorities have gotten in bed with 
the drug lords, so to speak.. legalizing will mean that politicians/authorities 
will no longer be able to fill their pockets with bribe money so it'd be like 
slaughtering the cow thats giving you the milk.
 
In short if you wanna blame it on somebody, do it on the germans.. they're the 
ones who started all of this, for those of you that didnt know, they started 
bribing mexican authorities  during WWII to let them smugle drugs into the 
states so that the gringo youth would get hooked on them, why? to make them not 
want to go to war of course...
 
if anyone else feels like continuing this thread, please take it to the OT 
list. I will not respond to it if it comes to cavetex.