Re: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian?
Kevin, You are a Jerk! To top it off, I've met street preachers from coast to coast and you guys all say the same thing when I tell ya that I'm not interrested in your kind of "ministry". Every street preacher I have met has said about his fellow street preacher, "He's not a street preacher, come see a real street preacher in action..." Guess what? ALL OF YOU ARE THE SAME. Rude, obnoxious, irritating, and I have seen you guys scare more people away from Messiah than draw in. You are all fuel for the worlds critics, showing just how asinine and irrelevant faith is to the modern world. Then you guys even have the balls to say that you do it out of love of Messiah!! It does not matter if one is a believer or not, most people want nothing to do with that kind of "love". It is not love of Messiah or your fellow man that you act the way you do. It's love of power and the ability to call someone names, belittle and berate them. Street Preachers are the dangerous ones, they do more harm than good. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 0:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian? baaa baaa baad - Terrible analogy, how could you miss it? Mormons are not sheep but goats When He comes in His glory: MT 25 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angelsJeff Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: perfect analogy! - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 20:45 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian? What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. Anyone who has raised sheep knows you can't get the lost sheep to come back to the fold by chasing and screaming at her. - slade -Original Message-From:Kevin DeeganSent: Tuesday, 18 January, 2005 18.40Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian? I have been easy on Dave this go round. Would you agree Dave? Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Maturity
OK David Miller, I am calling you a liar in regards to what you said below, I highlighted it in RED. For the record, under the subject line Traditional Christian Theology... I gave you an answer that you refuse to accept resulting in the fallicy of your statement.It was posted yesterday 1-18-2005 at 8:50 PM. You also say my comments are "getting personal and impugning your integrity"? Show us your integrity by admitting that you A. Ignored my answer B. Rejected my answer or C. feel that you are superior to everyone on this list. I have pasted My answerfrom 1-18-2005 at 8:50 PMbelow your post. David, I realize that you have the power to kick me off of this list. But that would be the cowards way out.Go right ahead, it will only prove me right! Jeff - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 14:41 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Maturity I do not believe that I tap-danced around anything. I answered his questions sincerely and to the best of my ability. If I appeared to you to tap dance around the question, it is probably because we have different definitions of words. For example, perhaps you define sinless differently than I do. That is why I asked you to define it, but you never did. Your comments are getting personal and impugning my integrity. Please stick with the subject at hand. Peace be with you. David Miller. How about as Torah obedient asone can possiblybe in 5765. I know I sin and I admit it, just like nearly everyone else here. Yet for most reading this thread, your answer (see below) places you above everyone else. I am sure I'm not the only one who reads your answer to be that you claim to be sinless. However, you tap-danced around John's direct question in a manner that allows you to answer with a non-answer. Lance wrote: IFF David is 'one of us' then, he consciously, actively, sins daily in thought, word and deed.Then I guess I am not one of you.Peace be with you.David Miller. Then you answer me with an attitude of superiority (I may be wrong but thats how I read your answer) as if everyone but you "conciously, actively, sin..." Then ask me to define sin? Jeff
[TruthTalk] Time for me to fly
After sitting back and reflectiong on the past few days, I have come to the conclusion that Truth Talk is largely a waste of my time. Time that could be better spent studying. In thinking this over, I realized that I do not enjoy TT, I am simply drawn like a moth to a flame. I think the only way to correct this is to leave. David, Kevin, I admit that I do not like the tactics either of you uses, but I have to say that I'm sorry for the way I have acted. There are a few people here that I love and will miss, but for my own good I have to move on. Slade or David please remove me from this list. Good bye, Jeff
Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christian theology -- does sham mean anything
Does that mean that you David Miller are sinless? - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christian theology -- does sham mean anything Lance wrote: IFF David is 'one of us' then, he consciously, actively, sins daily in thought, word and deed. Then I guess I am not one of you. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christian theology -- does sham mean anything
In my younger days we called it "Tripping"! Those delusians are not real, they are filiments of your imagination. Thank G-d Dr. J is on the case! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:09 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christian theology -- does sham mean anything In a message dated 1/18/2005 5:20:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 3b. If you (you also David) are testifying to this in your life then, please say so without ambiguity.Yes. That is all I am getting at. I thought it was clear until David sent that post talking about temptation and, essentially, avoiding in clear statement, what he actually taught in that very post. It is clear to me that David believes he has no sin issues (as opposed to temptation matters). Correct me if I am wrong. He sees the work of the Spirit as opposed to sin in much the same way as one end of a magnet is opposed to the other (that's why it is at the other end, of course --- tell me I am not a scientist !) With the Spirit in his life -- sin MUST be repelled. So, there is no sin. His problem is one of Dilemma Doctrine Theology (solely, a term of my creation and, yes, I am proud). When one is going through the DDT's, often strange and delusional matters come to life. Doctor J
Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christian theology -- does sham mean anything
How about as Torah obedient asone can possiblybe in 5765. I know I sin and I admit it, just like nearly everyone else here. Yet for most reading this thread, your answer (see below) places you above everyone else. I am sure I'm not the only one who reads your answer to be that you claim to be sinless. However, you tap-danced around John's direct question in a manner that allows you to answer with a non-answer. Lance wrote: IFF David is 'one of us' then, he consciously, actively, sins daily in thought, word and deed.Then I guess I am not one of you.Peace be with you.David Miller. Then you answer me with an attitude of superiority (I may be wrong but thats how I read your answer) as if everyone but you "conciously, actively, sin..." Then ask me to define sin? Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 18:40 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christian theology -- does sham mean anything Jeff wrote: Does that mean that you David Miller are sinless? No. It means that I do not consciously, actively, sin daily in thought, word and deed. On second thought, define sinless. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian?
perfect analogy! - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 20:45 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian? What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. Anyone who has raised sheep knows you can't get the lost sheep to come back to the fold by chasing and screaming at her. - slade -Original Message-From:Kevin DeeganSent: Tuesday, 18 January, 2005 18.40Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian? I have been easy on Dave this go round. Would you agree Dave?
Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christian theology
"The Song Remains The Same" Led Zeppelin - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 2:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Traditional Christian theology Hey Gary.Some advice I need - or maybe your observation. What happens now, G? Here on TT. Do I expect to see continued harang under the pretense of honest debate coupled with the most inconsistent of leadership solutions or do things get worse? Just wanting to know so I can prepare myself for any eventuality. I had hopes but the pig and squeal thing is a clear statement to an innate failure that apparently cannot be changed. What's the song -- is this all there is? JD
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now
Well it's like beating a dead horse. I made an honest observation and DM argues that I am wrong. His facts are 1. wrong, 2. misleading, or 3. ignorant. The simple fact of the issue is apart from a handful of "Dangerous Messianics" nobody here keeps God's Torah, that is God's Law Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 23:09 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now In a message dated 1/16/2005 7:19:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jeff wrote:Considering that most here reject God's LawTry to speak only for yourself. My perspective is that most people on TruthTalk accept God's law.If it alright for you to brand one's speech or thought as "heretical," what on earth is wrong with Jeff's presentation. Just that he did include not enough pronouns??John
Re: [TruthTalk] Good News!
Lance, for the record, I agree with you here! It's unfortunate that David M.(and a few others) is blind to the simple realities of this list. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 14:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Good News! Sectarianism DOES INDEED EXIST ON TT!! Please, someone correct either myself or David on this. Further, Linda does indeed say what amounts to, I am of David. (Linda, please illustrate for us with what frequency you 'amen' David (WOW that was an awesome post, David!) Sorry David, but ya gots at least one disciple. Private interpretation DOES INDEED EXIST ON TT!! Please, someone correct either myself or David on this. Further on this, David, are we reading the same forum? Who among us says: What I'm about to say that differs with what you say has no biblical foundation whatsoever, as I interpret Scripture. Am I incorrect in identifying you, Judy and Linda as having a dislike, if not disdain, for 'tradition'? What, as y'all see it, replaces this (tradition) is your (correct) interpretation of Scripture.By 'private' I'd include those who both know what you mean and agree with your interpretation. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 17, 2005 12:47 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Good News! Lance wrote: David, we are! 'The good news of the gospel of Jesus' Is it not sectarianism that is being addressed in this passage? Some say 'I am of David(that would be Linda), others say 'I am of Judy' and so on. Indeed, David, sectarianism does and must exist on TT. Even DaveH speaks of 'the good news of the gospel of Jesus' does he not? Surely there is no final standard by which we determine who is right? Private interpretation, as I read you, is the final arbiter.This would put DaveH on equal footing with David Miller. This is so is it not? No, it is not so. Paul was rebuking sectarianism. We should not have anyone here saying, I am of David (I do NOT believe this is Linda) nor others saying, I am of Judy (who says this?). We should all be seeking to be conformed to the image of Christ. The final arbiter of truth is Jesus Christ. Private interpretation of Scripture is NOT ALLOWED. The reason we discuss with one another is to circumvent private interpretation. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now *REPRIMAND*
What it means is that Izzy can say anything she wants with impunity. - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now *REPRIMAND* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what does this mean? On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 22:13:42 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Squealing like a stuck pig is not the same as BEING a pig. (Although it's possible, but DM didn't call him one.) Izzy|| [Slade:] I bet Jeff and the pig are equally upset.:)That means that Jeff would be offended at being compared to a pig, and the pig would be offended at being compared to Jeff
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now
David, for an intelligent man You can be very thick headed often. The ONLY reason sacrifices are no longer done is the fact that there is no temple! You have been told that and you still refuse to accept the facts. The only thing I can conclude is that you are trying to be argumentative about this. Sorry David the Churchified manner of Torah Observance is not Biblical Observance. I also see a legalism in you that far surpasses those of Biblical record. WHY? Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 12:57 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now Jeff wrote: The simple fact of the issue is apart from a handful of Dangerous Messianics nobody here keeps God's Torah I don't know any Dangerous Messianics on this list, but I will say that those on the list who identify themselves as Messianics are not the only ones who keep God's Torah. As I have said many times, I keep God's Torah. I don't think any believer in Christ has any choice but to keep God's Torah. The differences between some of us revolve around HOW we keep God's Torah. You don't think the sacrifices need to be kept. I do. The list goes on and on. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Good News!
Relax Terry, I promise not to be mean! :) Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 14:59 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Good News!I have a bad habit of sometimes responding without enough fore thought to how it might be received. Need to work on that. I have zinged Jeff twice this month and now I have to await his revenge. His silence to this point causes me to fear and tremble.Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now
Well Greg, For the most part, the practice of sacrifice stopped in the year 70 C.E., when the Roman army destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem, the place where sacrifices were offered. The practice was briefly resumed during the Jewish War of 132-135 C.E., but was ended permanently after that war was lost. Jews stopped offering sacrifices because we do not have a proper place to offer them. The Torah specifically commands us not to offer sacrifices wherever we feel like it; we are only permitted to offer sacrifices in the place that God has chosen for that purpose. Deut. 12:13-14. It would be a sin to offer sacrifices in any other place, akin to stealing candles and wine to observe Shabbat. The last place appointed by G-d for this purpose was the Temple in Jerusalem, but the Temple has been destroyed and a mosque has been erected in the place where it stood. Until G-d provides us with another place, we cannot offer sacrifices. There was at one time an opinion that in the absence of an assigned place, we could offer sacrifices anywhere. Based on that opinion, certain communities made their own sacrificial places. However, the majority ultimately ruled against this practice, and all sacrifice ceased. Orthodox Jews believe that when Messiah comes(Messianic's say returns), a place will be provided for sacrificial purposes. Today, forgiveness is obtained through repentance, prayer and good deeds. In Jewish practice, prayer has taken the place of sacrifices. In accordance with the words of Hosea, we render instead of bullocks the offering of our lips (Hosea 14:3) (please note: the KJV translates this somewhat differently). While dedicating the Temple, King Solomon also indicated that prayer can be used to obtain forgiveness (I Kings 8:46-50). Our prayer services are in many ways designed to parallel the sacrificial practices. So, considering the fact that Yeshua, Our High Priest, showed us the proper way and scripture tells us that all this was a shadow of things to come, we are confidant that the Temple will be rebuilt and the Korban (offerings) will resume. For the sake of the argument that could be presented by some, Yes, Yeshua DID make offerings (sacrifices) at the Temple. Had he not, he would not be sinless! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Gregory A. Hession J.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 16:47 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now Ah, but Jeff, there is not only no temple, but the veil was torn in the temple. Did not G-d himself remove this aspect of the sacrificial law, so that we would no longer perform those sacrifices under the new covenant? The new covenant has a new and vicarious sacrifice in the Lord's supper, by command of the Messiah Himself. A new command, a new covenant, out of the mouth of the master. Gregory A. Hession J.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Springfield, Mass. - Original Message - From: Jeff Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now David, for an intelligent man You can be very thick headed often. The ONLY reason sacrifices are no longer done is the fact that there is no temple! You have been told that and you still refuse to accept the facts. The only thing I can conclude is that you are trying to be argumentative about this. Sorry David the Churchified manner of Torah Observance is not Biblical Observance. I also see a legalism in you that far surpasses those of Biblical record. WHY? Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 12:57 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now Jeff wrote: The simple fact of the issue is apart from a handful of Dangerous Messianics nobody here keeps God's Torah I don't know any Dangerous Messianics on this list, but I will say that those on the list who identify themselves as Messianics are not the only ones who keep God's Torah. As I have said many times, I keep God's Torah. I don't think any believer in Christ has any choice but to keep God's Torah. The differences between some of us revolve around HOW we keep God's Torah. You don't think the sacrifices need to be kept. I do. The list goes on and on. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now
So now TT has become a DICTATORSHIP. Whats next mass crucifixions of the dissenting members? I would almost be in favor of it, except, I know from my time on here that several ppl are protected and can be as asinine as they choose and get away with it. While others get pounced on for minor reasons. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Saturday, 15 January, 2005 22.21 It not a babysitter. It is government. God has ordained government for the church as well as for the world. The law is for the lawless, so don't break the law and we won't need the law, nor will we need to enforce it. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now
I also have to comment on Davids mention of LAW. Considering that most here reject God's Law, you are all a bunch of Lawless individuals, so why do we now need the "Laws of David"? It's obvious that no one here is obedient to God (I include myself) as He expects it, so what makes anyone think that they are going to obey "the David's Law"? I said in my last post that I recon several will be exempt from the "LAW". The David say's, "The law is for the lawless..." yet time will tell. I'm sure we will see a few pets continue to get away with whatever they want. On another note, the language issue is ridiculous! Consider the historical examples, writers from the beginning of written languages have always been careful and creative to use euphemisims, and have been careful to not upset the masses with questionable language. The uptight "Moral Majority" (didn't that come from our friend, Jerry Falwell?) is laughable in light of the evidence! Consider this, if Yeshua appeared today as the Bible tells of his earthly walk and ministry, what would his Talmidim be like? Lets see now, some commercialfishermen, I'm telling ya, these saints certainly don't talk like most of you would call acceptable language. How about the crooked IRS agent? Or maybe the renegade, rebellious biker with the right cause but the wrong methods? (OK so thats a little far out there, but Judas Iscariot strikes me as a biker) What do they all have in common? A down to earth manner of speech that at times is coarse. In fact, do you REALLY think Yeshua only said,"You Vipers..." as it has come down to us? I don't because he was making a very strong point and "viper" just doesn't cut it when talking to the types he was talking to. To think otherwise is to have ones head in the sand. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Saturday, 15 January, 2005 22.21 It not a babysitter. It is government. God has ordained government for the church as well as for the world. The law is for the lawless, so don't break the law and we won't need the law, nor will we need to enforce it. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!??
:) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 10:31 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? J Well, I was going to say, when you are shaving, look down and behind, and if theres any dust therethats it! Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff PowersSent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:35 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? Whats a razor? Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 22:19 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? Jeff, do you shave in the morning? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff PowersSent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 5:00 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? Just what exactlyis butt dust? Jeff - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 16:02 Subject: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? A visiting minister waxed eloquent during the offertory prayer. "DearLord," he began, with arms extended toward heaven and a rapturous look onhis upturned face. "Without you we are but dust. . . "He would have continued but at that momentthe daughter of an elder (whowas listening!) leaned over toher mother and asked quite audibly in her shrilllittle girl voice,"Mom, what is butt dust?"
Re: [TruthTalk] Private Interpretation
Izzy, I am not a part of this discussion, but I AM INSULTED BY IT. Maybe John was also. Jeff - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 10:37 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Private Interpretation From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 10:42 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Private Interpretation In a message dated 1/15/2005 12:44:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jt: Possibly because you appear to be focused in/on tradition right now and I study God's Word (just a guess on my part) Possibly an insult. (just a guess on my part). JD, why must you keep stirring the pot of strife (as if there isnt enough already.) Let Slade determine for himself if he is insulted. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now
Dave, I was not thinking of you, breathe easy my friend. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Two Moderators Now DAVEH: Just thinking out loud, Jeff. :-) Jeff Powers wrote: Or maybe the renegade, rebellious bikerDAVEH: Sounds like somebody familiar with the right causeDAVEH: Jesus is always the right cause but the wrong methods?DAVEH: Some think Mormonism meets that criteria... (OK so thats a little far out there, but Judas Iscariot strikes me as a biker) What do they all have in common? DAVEH: The presumption of going to hell?-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Good News!
jeff in red - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 10:40 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Good News! Thanks for taking the time to send the definition Kay; so Slade wants me to leave my vigor and aggressive energy elsewhere? Would he rather I were "lukewarm or cold?" How is it so unmerciful to deal withthe truth? because you are mean-hearted and mean-spirited. In short, nobody sees any love in what you write. you are mean and cover it with scripture. pathetic! On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:27:37 -0500 "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Main Entry: piss and vinegar Part of Speech: noun Definition: vigor and aggressive energy Slade, my heart is not to demean anyone and I don't know what you mean by "piss and vinegar" as this term is not in my vocabulary. Please explain to mehow scripture and history demeans people. Are you thinking thatMessiah maybe softened things up a little to keep from hurting people's feelings? judyt On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:55:01 -0500 "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps you should allow Christ in your OWN life so that JUDY can be conformed to His Image. I am tired of your consistently demeaning posts. This is not Christlike behavior. Leave your piss and vinegar elsewhere please. Messiah never behaved like you are with people ho were genuinely looking to improve their walk. He showed mercy. You show none. -- slade From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy Taylor If this is so then why didn't Calvin allow Him to reveal Christin His own life so that Calvin could be conformed to His image? It certainly wasn't the Holy Spirit leading Calvinfirst off to merge Church and State in Geneva and it wasn't the Holy Spirit who led him to have another believer burned at the stake; nor was itthe Holy Spirit who kept him from ever repenting for his part in such a horrendous event.. to anyone's knowledge. jt
Re: [TruthTalk] Good News!
Well Judy, I just said that you were mean. your first response to Greg is exactly what I meant. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 11:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Good News! Good Morning Gregory and welcome to TT: You write: One of the most consistently frustrating things about Christians is that we seem far more keen on making sure everyone around us is properly beat over the head with the truth, often with bile and anger, than in living out the life exemplified by Christ, with mercy and love. Do you perceive that thisgoes on here Gregory?That is, beating people over the head with truth accompanied with bile and anger? yes judy, you! Look at the beatitudes. Truth is important, but it comes to people who have ears to hear. Our job is less to demand that they see the truth, than to LIVE the truth. The great saints down through history saw this as job one - becoming like Christ inside, so that their lives radiated his love and wisdom. How does one LIVE the truth on an internet list Gregory? How is one to radiate this love and wisdom by email other than through words. Actually what is in a person's heart ultimately becomes evident because it proceeds out of the mouth/through the keyboard.Judging the motives of others is also an ungodly trait and a lot of that goes on here. by following a different example than the one Judy shows. James was very clear that wisdom is linked to love and holiness: "Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.. . . " Yes and James also defines the two kinds of wisdom it is possible to walk in "that which comes from above and is pure and peaceable and full of good fruit or that which is earthly sensual and demonic" I'm sure you will find some of both on TT if you stay long enough. The entire book of Jamesis a rebuke to those who think KNOWING the truth is more important than DOING the truth. And the second course of the meal is Phillipians, where radiating the love which only comes from devotion to Christ is preeminent, not how well we have become little truth Nazis. IYO Gregory does loving God's Word make one a little "truth Nazi?" When its from the judy taylor school of theology. Then, the third course is I John, where the topic is brought to a supreme and sublime offering unequaled in any book ever written, in my opinion.When we stand in front of the dread judgment seat, the test is not how well we shoved every abstruse point of theology down the throats of the ignorant, but how we lived the great truths we already know, and taught the others with mercy and peace, so as to edify the listener, not stir up emnity. True, but if you will note the experience of God's messengers of truththrough scripture Gregory you will see how their messagealways stirred up emnity and strive. God's people killed his prophets and everywhere Paul and Silas went there were riots. Jesus Himself had to hide out and pass through at least one crowd who wanted to throw him off a cliff (a crowd of God's covenant people no less). I'm as against "abstruse theology" as anyone and am aware that the servant of the Lord must not strive. However, this is an open list full of professingbelievers who love God and it follows that they should also love His Word. Do you have a problem with that? jht judy, do you have a problem with being civil? Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov From: Judy Taylor Slade, my heart is not to demean anyone and I don't know what you mean by "piss and vinegar" as this term is not in my vocabulary. Please explain to mehow scripture and history demeans people. Are you thinking thatMessiah maybe softened things up a little to keep from hurting people's feelings? judyt On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:55:01 -0500 "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps you should allow Christ in your OWN life so that JUDY can be conformed to His Image. I am tired of your consistently demeaning posts. This is not Christlike behavior. Leave your piss and vinegar elsewhere please. Messiah never behaved like you are with people ho were genuinely looking to improve their walk. He showed mercy. You show none.
Re: [TruthTalk] Foul Language
Piss and Vinegar? come on David are you really that much of an uptight prude? Maybe you should visit the brick testament! http://thebricktestament.com Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 11:33 Subject: [TruthTalk] Foul Language Within the last few days, several have taken it upon themselves to communicate through the use of vile language. I realize that people have different ideas of right and wrong when it comes to language. Nevertheless, being that this is a discussion list that has some individuals on it who do not want to read vile language, please clean it up. If you have some doubt, just look the word up in a dictionary. If the dictionary informs you that it is a taboo term, try choosing some other term. The words that have caused offense lately are as follows. I post them from the Encarta Dictionary so you can see for yourself how the dictionary identifies them as taboo terms. Slade used the following: --- piss and vinegar a taboo phrase for feisty strength of character and physical vigor (slang taboo) --- Kay used the following: --- bullshit a taboo term for talk or writing dismissed as foolish or inaccurate (slang taboo) --- Jonathan used the following: --- prick noun (plural pricks) 1. taboo term: a taboo term for a penis (taboo) 2. taboo term: a taboo term for a man regarded as pathetically inadequate or unpleasant (taboo insult) --- Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005. © 1993-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. If you have any temptation to defend yourselves, at least you should realize how hypocritical you appear to some in chiding someone for being unlike Christ while using language that to this person appears very unlike Christ. If you have any desire to communicate with others who are sensitive to foul language, simply choose more wholesome words. At the very least, if you believe you have liberty in this area, at least consider the weakness of conscience that some might have, and avoid foul language for their sake. If you caused them to start using this same kind of language because they see you doing it, it might wound their conscience and cause them to feel condemned. 1 Corinthians 8:9 (9) But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!??
Just what exactlyis butt dust? Jeff - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 16:02 Subject: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? A visiting minister waxed eloquent during the offertory prayer. "DearLord," he began, with arms extended toward heaven and a rapturous look onhis upturned face. "Without you we are but dust. . . "He would have continued but at that momentthe daughter of an elder (whowas listening!) leaned over toher mother and asked quite audibly in her shrilllittle girl voice,"Mom, what is butt dust?"
Re: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!??
Mr. Moderator, Can we say "flatulence" or maybe "fart in the wind"? Or must we say,"Warm rushing emitance into the wind"? Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 18:36 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? Flatulence? -- slade -Original Message-From:Jeff PowersSent: Saturday, 15 January, 2005 18.00Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? Just what exactlyis butt dust? Jeff - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? A visiting minister waxed eloquent during the offertory prayer. "DearLord," he began, with arms extended toward heaven and a rapturous look onhis upturned face. "Without you we are but dust. . . "He would have continued but at that momentthe daughter of an elder (whowas listening!) leaned over toher mother and asked quite audibly in her shrilllittle girl voice,"Mom, what is butt dust?"
Re: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!??
Whats a razor? Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 22:19 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? Jeff, do you shave in the morning? Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff PowersSent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 5:00 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? Just what exactlyis butt dust? Jeff - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 16:02 Subject: [TruthTalk] Taboo?!?? A visiting minister waxed eloquent during the offertory prayer. "DearLord," he began, with arms extended toward heaven and a rapturous look onhis upturned face. "Without you we are but dust. . . "He would have continued but at that momentthe daughter of an elder (whowas listening!) leaned over toher mother and asked quite audibly in her shrilllittle girl voice,"Mom, what is butt dust?"
Re: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian?
:) - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 5:41 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian? John Never wrestle with a pig: You get dirty and the pig likes it. ...slade
Re: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are Written in the Lambs Book of Life?
So Sara has a new album out? I'd like to see her and Troy again. I haven't seen them since I turneddown Sara's offer to tour with them as her Sound Tech. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 9:41 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are Written in the Lambs Book of Life? Debbie, I hear you. We dont have to have it all figured out thankfully. We just have to trust and obey a loving God. BTW, I love the song Maybe Theres a Loving God by Sara Grovesits so awesome. (Im playing it on the computer as I type.) Izzy http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Maybe-There's-A-Loving-God-lyrics-Sara-Groves/4F803844416C7AC948256DE9000DF162 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debbie SawczakSent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:38 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are Written in the Lambs Book of Life? Yes, there is that problem if you press it to the logical conclusion, isn't there? Same with the all-babies-go-to-heaven view. In that case, best kill your kid before s/he reaches the age of accountability, or at least ensure agood pervasivebrain injury. But no; the Heard-Notcan't lose byhearing, nor the child by understanding. I think it relates to yourearlier post--God sees the end from the beginning.Also, everyone has some knowledge or experience to respond to. The response doesn't have to be propositional, nor intelligible to us--only intelligible to God. (Mind you,Idon't thinkI've figured this out yet...) Debbie -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:55 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are Written in the Lambs Book of Life? Don't you believe that all mankind is included in the incarnation which makes them all headed for heaven whether or not they overcome anything. I underlined the portion of your statement which is a true representation of things I've said. The second part is not accurate and cannot be linked to what I actually believe and have stated. I am confident (and this because I have had to defend and clarify myself so many times) that I have written more about the potential of humans to lose their salvation, than anyone on this list. I do not damn people to hell, like, say, you do, but I have written many substantive words expressing the possibility of people rejecting Christ and damning themselves to hell. You know this, so why do you continue to misrepresent my position? Bill Bill it appears to me that your theological construct forces one to believe that the worst thing you could do is to tell someone about Jesus Christ. If they never hear about Jesus they are guaranteed a ticket to heaven. If they do hear about Him and reject Him, that is the only possible way they can be destined for Hell. So why go forth and spread the gospel? It sounds like a terrible thing to do. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related Different Roads
Is that why I have BF Goodrich Roadhandler tread marks seemingly tattooed on my back? Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related Different Roads In a message dated 1/11/2005 11:57:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well there is the broad road and the narrow way - everyone is on one or the other but only one of them will lead to life. Defining what the word Christian means is neither here nor there. jtMaybe the road only SEEMS SMALL because we have found ourselves in an overhelmingly large vehicle --- one used by some to actually run over others who are forced to merely travse the road less traveled on foot. :-)=Jd
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related Different Roads
I thank you, my feet thank you and even my burro thanks you! A long time ago I knew it was going to be a tough road, But I never imagined it to be this tough! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 17:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related Different Roads In a message dated 1/12/2005 2:01:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is that why I have BF Goodrich Roadhandler tread marks seemingly tattooed on my back?JeffIf "wide track," I am sad to say "yes." I will pray from your recovery. John
Re: [TruthTalk] A Prophetic Word from David Miller
I'll find it and send it to ya John. It was DM speaking of himself. Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] A Prophetic Word from David Miller In a message dated 1/10/2005 5:01:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We are who we are. Jesus told me that those whoreceive me receive him, and those who reject me reject him. Therefore, Ileave it all in the hands of my Lord.Peace be with you.David Miller.What's this? I missed this post. Is this David talking about David or some paraphrase from the bible?J
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
Wrong Terry, I have had the pleasure of dealing with Mormans for many, many years. Also a few Jehovah's Witnesses! In fact my wifes sister in law has called me Satan incarnate! Now, I don't know Kevin, but his response just shows again why I do not care for street preachers of any denomination or religion! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 22:20 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 Kevin Deegan wrote: Jeff Powers suggests that we should not attack then goes right on to his attack on Street Preachers I find this Hypocritical at best. WITW? He can not see that he uses the tactic that he condemns? == Good to hear from you again Kevin. You might want to cut Jeff a little slack. He evidently has little idea of what Mormons believe. I think that if he bothers to learn he may rethink his position. On another subject. I know that some SP's were arrested recently for proclaiming the truth at a gathering of perverts. Can you fill us in? Do we know any of them? Are they out on bail? Do they have good legal counsel? Anything else you can tell us would be aappreciated. Thanks, Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
Terry, I'll give ya that one, but remember paybacks are coming! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 14:07 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 My mistake Jeff. I did not realize that you were a slow learner. Sorry. Terry Jeff Powers wrote: Wrong Terry, I have had the pleasure of dealing with Mormans for many, many years. Also a few Jehovah's Witnesses! In fact my wifes sister in law has called me Satan incarnate! Kevin Deegan wrote: Jeff Powers suggests that we should not attack then goes right on to his attack on Street Preachers I find this Hypocritical at best. WITW? He can not see that he uses the tactic that he condemns? == Good to hear from you again Kevin. You might want to cut Jeff a little slack. He evidently has little idea of what Mormons believe. I think that if he bothers to learn he may rethink his position. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Definition of Mormon Please
Ah but Kay my wifes sister in law answered my question about the 144,000. When I asked her if she was one of the 144,000 she replied No and then I asked her why she bothered then. Thats when she called me Satan! The beauty of it all is that she has never spoken to me since! But I still talk to my brother in law! In fact we get along great! Jeff - Original Message - From: Slade Henson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:00 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Definition of Mormon Please Isn't that the same thing Catholics say? You go to hell unless you're Catholic? And JW's? Aren't they like the 144,000 and if you aren't one of them, you go to hell? There is no church who can lead its members to salvation. Salvation is grace through faith. Kay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Tuesday, 11 January, 2005 11.47 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Definition of Mormon Please 1) This Church is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth there is NO SALVATION outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, Page 670) 2) We cannot accept that any other church can lead its members to SALVATION. (The Masters Church, Course A, Mormon Sunday school text.) Kay where does that leave you? How about this one DaveH? Give us a definition of Mormon I know the official term is LDS, you have no problem with the use of Mormon, do you? --- ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kay, in the past nine years this has been explained to DaveH ad nauseum. It's a ploy. Why don't YOU try to get through to him? Izzy _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade Henson Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:45 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 He didn't ask what a Christian is NOT, he asked what the definition for Christian IS. He didn't ask about Joseph Smith and his alleged activities or ideas are/were. Kay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ShieldsFamily Sent: Tuesday, 11 January, 2005 10.32 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 DaveH, You are simply straining at gnats to avoid the obvious. Here's what is Christian IS NOT: a believer in multiple-gods, or that Jesus is just another one of us gods, or that we can all evolve into another Jesus, or that everyone born on earth is born due to some gods in heaven having sexual relations, or that JS was a prophet, or that JS was not a liar and adulterer and statutory rapist, or any of the other bizarre ideas incubated by him are true, etc.. But of course you know all of this, and are completely in your zone when strife breaks out among naive brethren over mormonism's false claims to Christianity. Izzy _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:06 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 ShieldsFamily wrote: Several on this list claim they are speaking out of love, ala Yeshua. I say that they are decieved and lying when they do this. Why else would they attack Dave Hanson(or any one else) for his beliefs. I pity you petty little people. Jeff Jeff, I believe you are committing ad hominem attacks here. I am sure you cannot show us a single word of attack spoken against Dave Hanson; only against speaking of mormon theology as being truly Christian (which it isn't-and if you think so, perhaps you should listen more to Perry DAVEH: Sorry for intruding on this, Izzy. I've asked Perry (several times) for his definition of Christian, but he seems reluctant to mention anything except his disdain for my beliefs. I've got no problem with his dislike of my faith, but I do find it curious that he refrains from posting a definition of Christian, especially when he disqualifies me of being one. If I didn't know better, I'd say it's almost like a club that won't let you join IF you don't know the rulesand nobody will tell you the rules. BTW Izzyhow about you? May I implore you to weigh in on this as well? How do you define Christian? and talk less?) Therefore you are possibly guilty of your own accusations. Izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send
Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism
Remember to point out the mud slides in California the other day next time David! Thats no bend in the river either! Good point. Jeff - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 15:20 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Creationism Bill Taylor wrote: In a free moment down the road will you speak a few words to the recent discovery in, I believe it was, Montana, where a T-Rex was found and discovered to have been preserved with blood still in its composition? Are you familiar with this? The limited information I have received on the subject leads me to a conclusion that this particular dinosaur is not nearly as old as evolutions want us to believe overall. I am somewhat familiar with this, but I'm not sure how effective it will be for establishing a young age to the bones. The evolutionist takes the position that certain molecules of the bone, even proteins, can be preserved for a very long time! Do you know a way to disprove this assertion? What strikes me as especially strange is that fossil sites often have a large number of marine shells in the sediment. I went to one fossil dig which was discovered in a shell pit. We were digging within marine shells. The evolutionists say that these terrestrial animals fell into the river and their bones congregated in the bend of the river, but there was no soil, no leaves, no twigs, nothing that would indicate that this was a river bed. The bones were all jumbled and even had scratches on them. Clearly, this was a catastrophic event. When I pointed all this out to my professor as we were digging, he just shrugged his shoulders and returned to digging. The Bible speaks of a global flood that destroyed these animals, but I still get people telling me that there is no evidence of a global flood. They ignore the fossils and vast sedimentary rocks found all over the earth. The evolutionary mindset blinds them to obvious facts which would support the Biblical account. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
:) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 21:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 In a message dated 1/11/2005 4:43:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jeff Powers wrote:Terry,I'll give ya that one, but remember paybacks are coming!JeffMy mistake Jeff. I did not realize that you were a slow learner. Sorry.Terry You guys
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
I'll cast a vote for the Bishop of Californa! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 23:50 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me DAVEH: My latest response is in BLUE.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/9/2005 6:23:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So be it How can I conclude that Dave Hansen is not a brother ( in the grandest sense of that word) when this confession is so? The only rebuttal, as I see it, is to effectively argue that "brotherhood" is based upon doctrinal agreement that finds him no longer a MormonDAVEH: ??? Not sure why you would deny me Mormonism while maintaining Protestantism, JD. Is that not a double standard? It would be as you are understanding my post -- but that is not what I am saying. I think my use of the word "effectively" has caused some confusion. My point is that one cannot make an effective argument. The only rebuttal to your inclusion would be an effective argument that allows for the differing traditions of all except you -- not possible as far as i am concerned. DAVEH: Ahhh.thanx for clearing that up for me, JD. but allows me to continue as a Pentecostal and and Kay as a Messianic and Bill as a Bricklayin Fool For Christ and Jonathan/Lance as Canadian Mega Liberals !! Dave will never agree with us "protestants,"DAVEH: Seems like I already didat least in one aspect..that without Jesus, there would be no salvation. Absolutely -- sorry the confusion. DAVEH: I suspect there are other areas I may agree as well. But for the sake of dividing folks (and I admit to doing it too), it is more interesting/entertaining to point out the differences. nor will any of us convert to Mormonism.DAVEH: Heyno need to draw hasty conclusions, JD! :-D Read on ;-) Nor will I ever be whatever Judy is (I truly do not know her denominational tie) or a Baptist as is BillyT. But the fact embraced in the above "confession" binds us together in a way that cannot be destroyed. This includes you. DAVEH: You won't win any TT popularity trophies with comments like that, JD. ;-) DAVEH: Perhaps.But I suspect you are making a lot of TTers rather uncomfortable right now, JD. Very few TTers are going to feel good about getting chummy with a Mormon boy.Perhaps. Why so because we are only passively involved in this reconciliation that names Christ as the Author and Finisher. Joseph Smith is not that -- neither is Charles Finney, the Pope, Calvin, Luther and the like. JDJohn -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
Amen! Tell it like it is John! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 13:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me That He (Christ) claims this sonship as an aspect of who He is, is clear in John 8:54-59 "If I glorify Myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who glorifies me Your father, Abraham, rejoiced to My day and he saw it and was glad ..The Jews, therefore, said to him, You are not yet fiftey years old and have you seen abraham? Jesus said to them, Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am " (all of this spoken in the context of being the Son of God.)John
Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2
Again, John has nailed the respective hides to the barn wall. Several on this list claim they are speaking out of love, ala Yeshua. I say that they are decieved and lying when they do this. Why else would they attack Dave Hanson(or any one else)for his beliefs. I find it weird that when Kay posted a definition of the word Christian and applied it to Dave Hanson along withmost others on here several attacked the definition, but failed to provide a differentdefinition when she asked for one. Far too many here are resorting to the acrimonious street preacher style of voicing their opinions. WHY? It certainly serves no purpose and surely is not done in love or in the reflection of our savior. That style is repulsive and turns many more people away from Messiah than draws in. It only shows just how small and petty some can be while hiding behind a false image of Messiah. I pity you petty little people. Keep up the good work John, I like your style! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 9:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon Related #2 Congrats to Key. I do not mind hearing what DaveH has to say. We have been told t\more than once that affliliation does not have a requirement as far as TruthTalk is concerned. David Miller, a few weeks ago, wrote words to the effect that DaveH was THE model participants. He (Hansen) remains on TT dispite all manner of rudeness, It is as if those who oppose his religious _expression_ of Christ do not care for him. A terrible thing. To object to Hansen's shared views is certainly within the scope of this list -- to present these objections in such a manner as to convey that we do not give a krap about him as a person is beyond the pale. Kay is has not surrendered to this temptation. All of us disagree with the others on very important issues. The gospel message, the Sonship of Christ, the assertion that works have something to do with GETTING us saved are all issues that I find not only unbiblical but contrary to the biblical message. False doctrine. Lies and comments of the Devil. Wow !! At least, that is where I am emotionally. In the end, I regard those with such beliefs as brethren. Dave H has no belief that is more serious to me than those mentioned above. I have been forced to look to the heart of those writting and disregard the differences, tone down my objections, and leave the judgments to God. Works toward most of you-all -- should work for Hansen as well, in view of the "confession" he has admitted to. So, while some are busy poppin off about which god I serve, they might look to themselves. Love and respect of the brethren is a text of partnership between God and man - but some on this list, no doubt, will figure out a way to avoid that part of the Message. JDIn a message dated 1/10/2005 12:13:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Slade Henson wrote: So, you're saying...yes, you believe in multiple gods,DAVEH: Yesdoes not the Bible suggest likewise? Look at PS 82:6..I have said, ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most HighNow, most Protestants will claim that the term god was not used correctly here---that it really means judges (vs 1). However, IF that were accurate, what logic would prevail for Jesus to use vs 6 as a defenseJesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?...against those who sought to incriminate him as making himself as God (Jn 10:33). So, yesI believe the Bible supports that there are multiple Gods, but because of the propensity of the Israelites to forget the God who brought them salvation, the emphasis was put on their worship of ONE GOD. but you only worship only ONE God? DAVEH: YesOur Heavenly Father. Or LDS believe in multiple gods and YOU personally only worship/believe in one?DAVEH: I/we accept there are many, but I/we worship only one. Do you think the Trinity doctrine is worshipping three Gods?DAVEH: Nonot necessarily. I think the T-Doctrine obfuscates the nature of God so that those who accept the T-Doctrine really don't understand what they do worship. For instance.I believe Jesus has a body of flesh and bones, which the Bible proclaims emphatically. Yet I can't tell you how many times I've found Protestants find it hard to accept that fact. I believe it is because they've become steeped in the T-Doctrine suggestion that God is everywhere, but nowhere and is only in spirit form. When you think of Jesus, Kay, do
[TruthTalk] A Prophetic Word from David Miller
Look out Truth Talk, according to this most of the good people on this forum are going to burn in Hell! NOT! Gee Mr. Miller, it looks like your gift, calling, whatever is false. I say that with the certainity of knowing where I'll be spending eternity while rejecting YOUR doctrines, style, and Truths as you have laid them out on this forum. In a word (to use your very own words) Yes I reject your words which I guess means I reject you. But I don't reject my Messiah and God! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 11:26 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement We are who we are. Jesus told me that those who receive me receive him, and those who reject me reject him. Therefore, I leave it all in the hands of my Lord. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Reggie White NFL Football Player]
I think the better translation would be more along the line of, Lev 23:42 "You shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are home-born in Israel shall dwell in booths;" JPS version But then this was a shadow of things to come, in our Fathers Kingdom, we will celebrate with all the sacrifices and all the pagentry and glory to God! And we are going to have a great time! Well, some of us, the rest are going to be suprized that they were wrong. But thats OK God is going to have Yeshua teach ya'll how it's done and after the shock you will have a great time also! Also, David you still DO NOT UNDERSTAND the sacrificial system of the Temple. There can be no sacrifices without the Temple Altar. It's amazing, I know 6,7 and 8 year olds that understand this, yet grown adults that are in denial of God's Covenant fail to grasp the meaning. Serve Yeshua as He served His Father and you just might begin to understand. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 17:42 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Reggie White NFL Football Player] Kay wrote: Are you thinking of celebrating Sukkot? It depends upon what you mean by the word "celebrating." Are you sure you meant to use this word? This week is actually meant to be a week of remembrance, with special sacrifices made by fire each day. If you are asking me if I am thinking of dwelling in booths made with branches of palms and willows, and sacrificing the 199 animals that are commanded to be sacrificed during this festival, the answer is no. The Torah teaches that this remembrance is for the Israelite born, which I am not. Note verse 42 below: Leviticus 23:39-43 (39) Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. (40) And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days. (41) And ye shall keep it a feast unto the LORD seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. (42) Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; ALL THAT ARE ISRAELITES BORN shall dwell in booths: (43) That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. On the other hand, if you are NOT talking about Torah observance but whether I might take a camping vacation during this week in September with some Messianics, then my answer might be a little different. :-) You will have to ask again when the season gets here. I have not planned that far ahead. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
Isn't Benny Hinn Jewish? - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 18:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me You forgot your guyBenny Hinn...right??? :) Kay -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2005 14.38To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to MeIn a message dated 1/9/2005 6:59:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it is not because of his faith -- it is because of the faith of Christ Jesus Himself. There is salvation in none other. On that we all agree. Does Dave Hansen agree?DAVEH: Yes. JohnSo be it How can I conclude that Dave Hansen is not a brother ( in the grandest sense of that word) when this confession is so? The only rebuttal, as I see it, is to effectively argue that "brotherhood" is based upon doctrinal agreement that finds him no longer a Mormon but allows me to continue as a Pentecostal and and Kay as a Messianic and Bill as a Bricklayin Fool For Christ and Jonathan/Lance as Canadian Mega Liberals !! Dave will never agree with us "protestants," nor will any of us convert to Mormonism. Nor will I ever be whatever Judy is (I truly do not know her denominational tie) or a Baptist as is BillyT. But the fact embraced in the above "confession" binds us together in a way that cannot be destroyed. Why so because we are only passively involved in this reconciliation that names Christ as the Author and Finisher. Joseph Smith is not that -- neither is Charles Finney, the Pope, Calvin, Luther and the like. JD
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
hey, what ever he is, benny ha ha has a great money-making shtick going! Now if only he could see clear to support a couple of starving seminary students! :) Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 20:56 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me Try Lebanese? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff PowersSent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 6:08 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me Isn't Benny Hinn Jewish? - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 18:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me You forgot your guyBenny Hinn...right??? :) Kay -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2005 14.38To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me In a message dated 1/9/2005 6:59:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it is not because of his faith -- it is because of the faith of Christ Jesus Himself. There is salvation in none other. On that we all agree. Does Dave Hansen agree? DAVEH: Yes. John So be it How can I conclude that Dave Hansen is not a brother ( in the grandest sense of that word) when this confession is so? The only rebuttal, as I see it, is to effectively argue that "brotherhood" is based upon doctrinal agreement that finds him no longer a Mormon but allows me to continue as a Pentecostal and and Kay as a Messianic and Bill as a Bricklayin Fool For Christ and Jonathan/Lance as Canadian Mega Liberals !! Dave will never agree with us "protestants," nor will any of us convert to Mormonism. Nor will I ever be whatever Judy is (I truly do not know her denominational tie) or a Baptist as is BillyT. But the fact embraced in the above "confession" binds us together in a way that cannot be destroyed. Why so because we are only passively involved in this reconciliation that names Christ as the Author and Finisher. Joseph Smith is not that -- neither is Charles Finney, the Pope, Calvin, Luther and the like. JD
Re: [TruthTalk] Temple Altar is necessary for Torah Observance?
Think red this go round: Jeff wrote: I think the better translation would be more along the line of, Lev 23:42 "You shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are home-born in Israel shall dwell in booths;" JPS version Yes, that is a better translation. Thanks. So the command to observe Sukkoth is only meant for the home-born Israelite? Is that how you read it? No. Deu 16:14"Be joyful at your Feast-you, your sons and daughters, your menservants and maidservants, and the Levites, the STRANGERS the fatherless and the widows that live in your towns." How do you read this David? Jeff wrote: David you still DO NOT UNDERSTAND the sacrificial system of the Temple. There can be no sacrifices without the Temple Altar. It's amazing, I know 6,7 and 8 year olds that understand this ... snip ad hominem remarks I don't think its an ad hominem to speak the truth. Christianity has rejected God's Covenant. But if the moderator chides me for this so be it. David, your next remark was entirely uncalled for and just shows me that once again you are attempting to pick an argument. Face it, your tactics are antiquated and annoying, a large reason I tend not to reply to your posts. I don't claim to know it all and I don't have to win every argument, therefore if you continue with this method I will again ignore you and let you claim your victory. Jeff. I'm a little bit slow and a quart low sometimes. I really depend upon smart guys like you who take time to explain this stuff to me. I don't know where you find the patience to respond to someone as stupid as I am. My first problem in understanding you is that there was no Temple when the Torah was written, so it seems really confusing to me why you would think that there needs to be a Temple Altar. Are you saying that if I build my own altar (kind of like Noah did) to observe the Torah commandments that I would be in violation of Torah? YES Can you tell me what passage I would be in violation of? David are you a Levite? If not you would be building a pagan altar. Secondly, God, Himself, tells us how we are to offer the sacrifices. Exodus 25 we begin to see the Tabernacle of His design. In Ex.27 we are given the instructions for the altar and in chapter 29 the instructions for consecrating the sons of Aaron, the Levitical Priests. Then about verse 13 we see the Altar designed by God used for the first time. I figure you will probably argue that this is the Tabernacle, not the Temple, but you need to understand that the Tabernacle was the forerunner of the Temple. Now read all of Ex 29, taking note of Who,what,when and why of these sacrifices. Where does an ordinary man make a sacrifice? Take special notice of verses 42-44. Especially verse 44. Who consecrates the Altar? Certainly not a man! What happened when Aaron made an altar NOT consecrated by God (Ex.32)? Moses pleads with God for the peoples sake. Instead of killing the Israelites God nails them with a plague (32:25) So go right ahead David, build an altar if you wish, but be warned you will be thumbing your nose at God if you do. So now the rest of Exodus pretty much tells us about the building of the Tabernacle and the order in which it is set up. Then we get to Leviticus and the rules for making offerings. Again, it cannot be done in ones own yard or without a Levitical Priest. It can only be done at the Tabernacle then after Solomon builds the Temple at the Temple. And remember, the Tabernacle was the portable Temple during the time when the Israelites were still very much a band of nomads. The first Temple was built by Solomon of course. But not without God's blessing. Remember God didn't allow David to build it because he had blood on his hands. I think it's interesting that folling this same line of thought we can see why the Temple has not been rebuilt in our time yet. Since Israel became an independant state in 1947 it has had bloodstained leaders! When Israel elects a leader that is free ofa bloodstained past I think the Temple will be built almost overnight and when it's ready God, Himself will light the fire on the Altar because man let it go out in violation of Lev.6:12-13. It was to be kept burning eternally. I'm too tired to go any further tonight so I'll let you stew on this and maybe if you can discuss this in a civil manner with out trying to pick more of a fight I'll continue. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
Re: [TruthTalk] newbie
Welcome to the most dysfunctional group on the web! I'm sure you will be stretched and strained, just like the rest of us. As I said, welcome to the fight, err debate, ummm, discussion, uh what exactly do we call this fiasco guys?! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 19:39 Subject: [TruthTalk] newbie Hi all,I am a new kid on this block, and I think it behooves me just tolisten for a while, but rather than skulk under the eaves I thought I'd let you know I'm here. Ive been a Christian for a long time and have always been very interested in questions of faith.Now, though, I'm at a point in my life when Im re-examining a lot of things, and I find that exciting; it's leading me to a much richer appreciation of who God is and what it means to be in Christ. Im looking forward to getting to know all your voices, the things that matter to you, and why. Debbie
[TruthTalk] Whats next?
Sorry folks, I can't help it! This cracked me up!!! Toilet Brush Warning Wins Consumer Award Thu Jan 6, 4:50 PM ET Strange News - AP By DAVID N. GOODMAN, Associated Press Writer DETROIT - The sign on the toilet brush says it best: "Do not use for personal hygiene." That admonition was the winner of an anti-lawsuit group's contest for the wackiest consumer warning label of the year. The sponsor, Michigan Lawsuit Abuse Watch, says the goal is "to reveal how lawsuits, and concern about lawsuits, have created a need for common sense warnings on products." The $500 first prize went to Ed Gyetvai, of Oldcastle, Ontario, who submitted the toilet-brush label. A $250 second prize went to Matt Johnson, of Naperville, Ill., for a label on a children's scooter that said, "This product moves when used." A $100 third prize went to Ann Marie Taylor, of Camden, S.C., who submitted a warning from a digital thermometer that said, "Once used rectally, the thermometer should not be used orally." This year's contest coincides with a drive by President Bush (news - web sites) and congressional Republicans to put caps and other limits on jury awards in liability cases. "Warning labels are a sign of our lawsuit-plagued times," said group President Robert Dorigo Jones. "From the moment we raise our head in the morning off pillows that bear those famous Do Not Remove warnings, to when we drop back in bed at night, we are overwhelmed with warnings." The leader of a group that opposes the campaign to limit lawsuits admits that while some warning labels may seem stupid, even dumb warnings can do good. "There are many cases of warning labels saving lives," said Joanne Doroshow, executive director of the Center for Justice and Democracy in New York. "It's much better to be very cautious ... than to be afraid of being made fun of by a tort reform group." The Wacky Warning Label Contest is in its eighth year.
Re: [TruthTalk] newbie
nanner, nanner, nanner, first ya gotta catch me! And just who decides the rules of these spankings? I'lltry toilet brushes for $200. "What new warning labels will be on toilet brushes in the near future?" answer: "Not for personal hygiene." Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 19:49 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] newbie You got it, Iz. I'll have Slade sit on him... Kay -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Thursday, 06 January, 2005 19.48To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] newbie Do it for me, Kay! J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Slade HensonSent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:41 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] newbie Welcome, DebbieI can spank Jeff for you if you want... Kay -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Jeff PowersSent: Thursday, 06 January, 2005 19.26To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] newbie Welcome to the most dysfunctional group on the web! I'm sure you will be stretched and strained, just like the rest of us. As I said, welcome to the fight, err debate, ummm, discussion, uh what exactly do we call this fiasco guys?! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Debbie Sawczak To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 19:39 Subject: [TruthTalk] newbie Hi all,I am a new kid on this block, and I think it behooves me just tolisten for a while, but rather than skulk under the eaves I thought I'd let you know I'm here. Ive been a Christian for a long time and have always been very interested in questions of faith.Now, though, I'm at a point in my life when Im re-examining a lot of things, and I find that exciting; it's leading me to a much richer appreciation of who God is and what it means to be in Christ. Im looking forward to getting to know all your voices, the things that matter to you, and why. Debbie
Re: [TruthTalk] Whats next?
Kay, just wait til Slade sees this. We have discussed this several times and the passage does not mean a literal eye for eye, etc., What it means is fair and just compensation to the injured person. ie: a tooth is worth $30, an eye $25,000, a kidney $1,000,000. Hey don't hold me to these numbers, I picked em out of the air! But I think the example is obvious. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 20:34 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Whats next? I don't pay for insurance. The easy fix is...refuse to settle. Go to trial and if the claim is truly meritless, it will lose. But, in my opinion, the doctor who removes the wrong kidney should be suedand lose his license. Would it be Biblical to ask for his kidney in exchangeeye for an eye...tooth for a tooth...kidney for a kidney:) Kay -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Thursday, 06 January, 2005 20.26To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Whats next? (Sorry Iz, I cannot support him on this one, either:) You never file any claim, (tort claim or otherwise) with a dollar amount in it. You ALWAYS let the jury decide. Juries tend to award the big bucks.Kay PS I forgot to mention, juries dont even usually get to the point of making a judgment. Most medical malpractice suits are settled out of court to avoid the soaring costs. The lawyers for the injured patients know this, and their whole strategy is just to get an out of court settlementits almost guaranteed. All you have to do is file a ridiculous claim and youll get several thousand dollars for it as a buy-out by the medical lawyers to avoid having to go through the whole trial. Its such a scam! I was on a jury this past spring that had this exact thing happen. It all adds up to impossible legal fees for no valid reason, and it harms you and me because we are losing medical care everywhere. It costs millions of dollars/year (from insurance and the govt, which we also pay) because doctors must order all kinds of tests as a defense in case there is a claim against them for some reasonits called defensive medicine. This is why insurance costs are going through the roof. Do you like paying exorbitant insurance rates??? (I dont!) Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement
Apostolic Pentacostal Seventh day Holiness brotherhood, yada, yada? Been trying to remember myself. I wish I could remember. And no folks, I'm not picking on anyone here if it seems like it. Those people were very weird! Jeff - Original Message - From: Slade Henson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:08 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement No, they didn't call themselves Messianic. I was mistaken in my earlier post of thinking they may have. I know now what they called themselves...did a little research. Kay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Powers Sent: Tuesday, 04 January, 2005 17.26 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement Kay, If I remember correctly, they didn't call themselves Messianic. I can't remamber what they did call themselves though. On the other hand, I don't care either! I'm just glad I only spent a week with the wackos! It was more than enough for me. Jeff -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Space/Time - Einstein Christian Understanding of..
Lance, You forgot "Genesis and the Big Bang" by Schroeder. For me the jury is still out, both camps make enough sense that I am undeceidedly leaning young earth. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 7:25 Subject: [TruthTalk] Space/Time - Einstein Christian Understanding of.. Is there anyone on TT equipped to shorten the conversation on the above? A short bibliography Space, Time and Incarnation - Thomas F. Torrance, 1969 TT Clark Space, Time and Resurrection - Thomas F. Torrance, 1976 TT Clark The Christian Frame of Mine - Reason, Order, and Openness in Theology and Natural Science - Thomas F. Torrance, HH 1989 Light from the East - Theology, Science, and the Eastern Orthodox Tradition, Fortress Press, 2003 The Elegant UIniverse - Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory - Brian Greene - Vintage 1999, 2003 (See also 2 DVD set from Nova) Relativity - The Special and the General Theory - A clear explanation that anyone can understand - Albert Einstein - Wings Books - 1916, 1952 The Meaning of Relativity - with a new introduction by Brian Greene - Princeton, 2005 Ideas and Opinions - Albert Einstein - Wings Books - 1954 The Knight's Move - The Relational Logic of the Spirit in Theology and Science - James E. Loder W. Jim Neidhardt - HH, 1992 I seem to recollect that Bill Taylor began to address 'this issue' some time ago. May I suggest that in 2005 we identify the underlying issue(s) under discussion, lay out an agreed upon framework for genuine engagement then move forward. At least one operative word in all genuine conversation(s) is the word 'interdisciplinary'. Why wouldn't it be? Life itself is interdisciplinary. IMO individualism is the enemy of the relational. We must be rooted in much, much more than "IMO'. I thoroughly concur with the founder of TT, David Miller, on setting the bar as high as it needs to be. There are competent people herein so, let's 'stretch' ourselves. David hasput the 'ball in play' on space/time so.? Lance .
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
John, What about the word, "Abba"? Over the last few years I have heard Christian theologians use this word in reference to God. Most recently I believe it was Max Lucado. Pop, Papa, Dad, Daddy, Abba, its all the same! If we cannot call our heavenly Father Daddy then who can we call papa? Now, before we get bogged down into semantics and the perpetual straining of gnats, I admit that I am straining at gnats here! Lets move on. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 1:06 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me In a message dated 1/3/2005 5:56:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't this an oxymoron since "eternal" means forever and it would be impossible for God to die? On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 20:09:12 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 1/3/2005 4:35:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I honestly do not know. I suppose that you could say He became a father when He created angels, and there is some justification for that in scripture. You could also say He became a father when He created Adam and Eve. The only certainty I see is that He became the Father of Jesus when His Holy Spirit impregnated Mary.TerrySo you don't believe in the Eternal Fatherhood of God? JD So, another question you really can't deal with? Whose your mamma, by the way. Let's not forget that. Can't be a Father with one, you know. unless "Father" is not used in same sense Dad or Pop and , news flash --- it's not. John
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
Well Lance, Considering I'm one of those "Dangerous Messianics" do ya really want my opinion on this?I am not going to get bogged down by 'the David' or Judy, et al. (I do not have the luxury of the time to waste on this) so I'll say my piece and bow out simply because they are waiting to pounce on anything I say. I will tell you that I see Yeshua- Jesus (take your pick)throughout the Older Testament.He was/is the son from before the beginning of time. YHVH-God (again, take your pick) was/is the Eternal Father. I believe the pertinent scripture passages have already been stated and duly poo-poo'ed by those that reject this simple truth, so why bother again. By the by Lance you recently received a book that explains my feelings regarding this(but then I'm partial to the authors line of thinking anyway! And he dedicated it to my late wife!). In it you will find a much better explaination than I could ever give. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:28 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me To me "I don't know' is beginning to mean that 'the David', Terry, Izzie, (don't know where the 'Slade contingent' shakes out on this) are not only NOT informed by historic Christianity but, are kinda makin' it up as they go along. After all, if one has a Bible, the Spirit of God and, a mind then, why bother with that which has gone before? - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 03, 2005 19:52 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/3/2005 4:35:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I honestly do not know. I suppose that you could say He became a father when He created angels, and there is some justification for that in scripture. You could also say He became a father when He created Adam and Eve. The only certainty I see is that He became the Father of Jesus when His Holy Spirit impregnated Mary.TerrySo you don't believe in the Eternal Fatherhood of God? JD===What does I don't know mean to you?
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
Well now, I think there is a wealth of understanding to be gleaned from the Rabbi's of old. They have helped me understand many points that I would have missed on my own. While I don't agree 100% all the time they have caused me to think! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 6:02 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me So then, after some 20+ centuries of reading/living Scripture ya dunno? (Slade, Kay, Jeff:40+ centuries) Do you devalue that which and those who've gone before? I'm hoping that both form and content matter to all. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 03, 2005 18:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me Jonathan wrote: I am continually astounded that those who have been termed 'liberals' on this forum are the only ones who hold to orthodox Christianity, that which the church catholic has decreed for millennia. The more we discuss the more we see how the 'non-liberals' spurn the faith of apostles. Faith of the apostles? Reconsider your history a little, please. Your doctrine of the Godhead is not the doctrine of the apostles. You are arguing from fourth century wrangles of men. Even when the Nicean creed was first adopted, the churches did not follow it. Athanasius was exiled again and again and again because of his extreme view of the Godhead. Following the council of Nicea, the church was primarily Arian for the rest of Athanasius's life with only a few years of reprieve for him here and there. The part of the creed that you want to emphasize did not even exist in it until a decade after Athanasius had died. The doctrine I hold is the doctrine of the apostles of Christ. I challenge you to find any apostle anywhere that contradicts my teaching on anything. The doctrine of the apostles does not focus upon the nature of the Godhead. That is like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. The doctrine of the apostles is that which declares who Jesus is, the Messiah, and its emphasis is on men turning away from sin to believe upon Christ and keep his commandments. No apostle ever uttered: believe in the eternal Father and eternal Sonship doctrine or be damned. Let me reiterate again. I have not taken a position on the eternal sonship doctrine one way or the other. I'm exploring the viewpoint. I believe that there is liberty to ask questions about the nature of the Godhead and to seek to understand it through discussion. You seem to want to resort to declarations of dogma and hit anyone who does not conform with cries of foul... unorthodox... departing from the faith of the apostles... etc. Would you consider allowing us to think and discuss instead of insisting that we conform to questionable fourth century dogma? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me
olive = Jeff - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:32 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Why the Eternal Sonship of Christ Matters to Me On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 01:18:07 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Red = JD, judyt - Blue John are you one of the ones who claimed we humans are merely minds with a body, (or body and soul only)? Guess again, miss judy. Moses knew God was the Father of spirits and so did Aaron[See Numbers 16:22; 27:16] and He is the God of the spirits of the Prophets [Rev 22:6] JD: And where does any of this conflict with the sidebar in Heb 12:9 that God of the father of our spirits? jt: He would have a hard time being who He is if wethe seed of Adam were not created spirit beingsin His image and likeness before the fall. You look to your own sense of logic and draw a reasoned conclusion that the "image" has something to do with declaration of how we are as an actual being. I use my sense of logic and draw a reasoned conclusion that "image" has something to do with essense. Careful there John, your getting very close to being accused of thinking Hebraically!!! I for one like it! Whose to say, for sure (and please don't say, David). jt: I don't look to "logic" John, I see what I have written here inscripture, just because you don't see it right now doesn't mean it is not there or that you won't see it ever. I don't see anything about "essence" at all in the whole Bible, must besome theological construct that comes from the same place as the other doctrines and the procession which probably led to all the pomp and icons in the RCC. Not written in stone, I know, but much more likely than the other understanding. None of it is absolute. Johnjt: It's absolute so far as God is concerned - The testimony of Jesus is the Spirit ofprophecy [Revelation 19:10]. JD: You lost me. I have no idea what you and I are debating right now. Bring me up to date. jt: Not a debate, merely a statement of fact. Your facts are not mine -- that is why I prefer "debate" jt: Not even facts out of the pages of the holy writ? When the man with the brothers wanted to send more proof to his kin so they would believe - what was he told? - "they have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them" We have a more sure word of Prophecy wouldn't you agree? Well, yes -- but what has this to do with the image of God or Heb 12:9? Still lost on this end. jt: It has to do with your statement above that "nothing is absolute" What I am trying to say is that "God's Word" through Moses and the prophets is absolute. And so is God's Word through our Lord and Master.
Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement
Kay, If I remember correctly, they didn't call themselves Messianic. I can't remamber what they did call themselves though. On the other hand, I don't care either! I'm just glad I only spent a week with the wackos! It was more than enough for me. Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Slade Henson Sent: Tuesday, 04 January, 2005 12.21 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement I would say they claimed to be Messianic. However, I would not consider them Messianic. They are like no Messianics I know now or have known in the past. They were of their own breed, I guess. The control issues, the manipulations, the twisting words and Scripture, sometimes outright lies, the self-righteous stuff, the way others were treated, and definitely piety. That's all I can think of off the top of my head right now. Kay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Miller Sent: Tuesday, 04 January, 2005 12.14 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judaizers within the Messianic Movement Kay wrote: I experienced one cultish group within the past couple of years. Was it a Messianic cult? What made it cult-like? Peace be with you. David Miller. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Believing scripture
I'll join ya for a Guinness, John! Jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 18:31 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Believing scripture In a message dated 1/3/2005 3:08:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: None of the ideas in that post appear ill founded to me, but I realize that such may not be the case with those that do not have the background of knowledge that I have.I'm going to go have a beer.JD
Re: [TruthTalk] The place of creeds in relation to truth
Lapsang Suchong? Ahh, Bro. John, if ya don't have any of that I'll settle for some green tea! As one of those "evil messianics" I guess I resemble that comment. But a cup of tea and a little honest dialogue without all the emotion and I think we can realize the common ground of which John speaks. Happy New Year, and here's a raised cup to a new beginning on truth talk! And now I'm off to vegatate in front of the tv and watch "Hang Em High", not the most enlightening or critically appraised film ever made, but then I'm not the most critical of movie watchers anyway! BTW John, "Jeremiah Johnson" is one of my all time favorites also! Along with "The Mountain Men" and "Last of the Mohicans". Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:24 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The place of creeds in relation to truth Tea, anyone?Pastor Smtherson
Re: [TruthTalk] Deceiving and Being Deceived was Judy's Plagiarism
My advise to Lance is to ignore the divisive and argumentative spirit of this individual. To me it is obvious that her only purpose is to cause strife here. Much of my reason for being so quiet is the garbage spewing from her fingertips. The venom is there for all to see. Those that cannot see it are either blind or in denial. I've come to the point that I no longer care if I am welcome here, but I am compelled to call a spade a spade and let the chips fall Good day, Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 14:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Deceiving and Being Deceived was Judy's Plagiarism Not for the New Creation in Christ Lance because For them "old things are passed away and all things have become new" On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 13:49:02 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My friend, Jonathan, and I were sitting here talking about this very thing not two hours ago. He is the more hopeful of the two. At the core, I believe real change to be more apparent than real. To quote myself, "Who you are at six is who you are a sixty. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/1/2005 8:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would be curious as to how you plan to do what you must do. Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] The place of creeds in relation to truth
Exactly! They chose not to be sons and daughters of their own free will. Just as God is Father and creator of ha Satan! Read your Bible, ha Satan was the most beautiful creation of the Father, yet he got arrogant and stupid. The result: ha Satan has been cut off. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 13:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The place of creeds in relation to truth Yup! Father of them also. - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 01, 2005 12:11 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The place of creeds in relation to truth Lance Muir wrote: He is the God and Father of ALL!!!==God of all, yea, verily.Creator of all, yea, verily.Father of all? Ask those to whom He has said, "I never knew you".
Re: [TruthTalk] Orthodoxy
Lance, I could wax poetically about this world being an illusion and that this world is not my home. I could tell you about my own attempts at actively attempting to leave this world behind, but to what purpose? In all honesty, I have been trying to keep thing on the light side lately and this like several other attempts at humor have gone astray. So other than asking what "solissist" means, I am going to bow out for another day. I have several issues that I have been thinking about and a couple of bombshells to drop on TT, but in light of the current atmosphere here I have chosen to wait a little bit. I'm still working on something that I intend to be bullet proof. I'm still digging for the references in an attempt to avoid the arguments that could possibly be raised. Yes, I expect an argument, but I want to get most of the "easy" rabbit trails out of the way first in order to avoid 35 msgs a day that do nothing but taken us farther from the subject. Oops! so much for brevity! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 5:01 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Orthodoxy Jeff asks:'What reality?' Jeff states:'This (reality?) is an illusion.' You did indicate that somewhat longer posts were to be forthcoming, did you not? Please explain you meaning. Are you a solissist? - Original Message ----- From: Jeff Powers To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 28, 2004 17:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Orthodoxy What reality? This is all an illusion! Back to my hole in the log again, jeff
Re: [TruthTalk] Orthodoxy
Ok, then I can answer that NO I'm not a
solipist!
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004
5:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Orthodoxy
Mine too was 'an attempt at humour gone astray'.
A solipsist is one who adheres to the belief that self is the only thing that
is real, and can be verified.
IMO we inhabit a 'Divine AND Contingent' order.
An overemphas on either can lead to a misunderstanding of the relation between
God and His Cosmos and us; it's inhabitants.
- Original Message -
From:
Jeff
Powers
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 29, 2004 05:43
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Orthodoxy
Lance,
I could wax poetically about this world being an
illusion and that this world is not my home. I could tell you about my own
attempts at actively attempting to leave this world behind, but to what
purpose? In all honesty, I have been trying to keep thing on the light
side lately and this like several other attempts at humor have gone astray.
So other than asking what "solissist" means, I am going to bow out for
another day. I have several issues that I have been thinking about and a
couple of bombshells to drop on TT, but in light of the current atmosphere
here I have chosen to wait a little bit. I'm still working on something that
I intend to be bullet proof. I'm still digging for the references in an
attempt to avoid the arguments that could possibly be raised. Yes, I expect
an argument, but I want to get most of the "easy" rabbit trails out of the
way first in order to avoid 35 msgs a day that do nothing but taken us
farther from the subject.
Oops! so much for brevity!
Jeff
Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the
victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That
weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004
5:01
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Orthodoxy
Jeff asks:'What reality?' Jeff states:'This
(reality?) is an illusion.' You did indicate that somewhat longer posts
were to be forthcoming, did you not? Please explain you meaning. Are you a
solissist?
- Original Message -
From:
Jeff
Powers
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 28, 2004 17:18
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Orthodoxy
What reality? This is all an illusion!
Back to my hole in the log again,
jeff
Re: [TruthTalk] Judy's Plagiarism
! THE GOOD OL DAYS! - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:09 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judy's Plagiarism I find myself beginning to agree with David on the 'public posting' of all this back and forth 'invective'. Accuse/defend then repeat ad nauseum. IMO overmuch is being made of overlittle. It has long been apparent that serious disagreements exist over serious issues. Even feigned respect for one another would be a step up. Who can remember the sort of exchange that took place between Dan Akroyd and Jane Curtain while at the (pretend) newsdesk? 'Jane, you ignorant slut' Some of the comments of many have approximated the Dan/Jane exchanges. (SNL for the uninitiated) We have all spoken words 'in the heat of battle' that we like to 'take back' but, we can't. Even apologies and the asking of forgiveness cannot restore the 'genie to the bottle'. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 29, 2004 06:50 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judy's Plagiarism jt: John - do you see how deceitful this interchange has become? Look at Izzy's original comment below taken entirely out of context by Gary who uses it first to denigrate me and then to accuse her of 'venom' making her commentinto an accusation rather than a statement of fact. Following this you(probably unaware) endorse Gary's false accusation and call it correct. So'judging and confusion' continue to reign. Thecomment has nothing to do with Bill or his heart; Izzy had previously commented on the fruit of his doctrine which is allowable. Izzy: Can we please call a halt to everyone on TT jumping in to eagerly accuse her of plagiarism and deceit and hypocrisy and every other filthy thing You all should be looking to your own selves if you want to condemn sin, especially those of you who have admitted to such behavior yourselves. Otherwise God Himself will judge you. Lets move on, as this is getting sickening. Izzy On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:23:40 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 12/28/2004 7:18:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..God Himself will judge you. .. Izzy Gary writes: myth [anothr smug Judy-esque ad hominem , with venom, addressd to/through Bill to numerous likemindd saints; I.e.: Bill had written~ : "I long to be..able to..balance [Patristic comments in public] without 'alienating Christians'.." Gary is certianly correct here. Bill's heart is right. Comments to the contrary are contrary. John
[TruthTalk] Auschwitz
Hello one and all, I got this today and am still stunned by it: Coming on the heels of the December 2, 2004 British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) televised poll which revealed that nearly half of Britons had never heard of the Nazi concentration camp of Auschwitz, a Jewish organization in Florida has released a study demonstrating 63% of a typical United States city could not identify the infamous Polish concentration camp. www.isfsp.org/study.html. It even brought to mind several other atrocities that should never be forgotten; the Pol Pot Regime in Cambodia, Tianamen Square in China, Stalin's barbarity(thanks Slade). In a personal conversation Slade said that the prevalant attitude was something like this," Well it's not my people, so what?" And I have to agree with his assesment, that is what seems to be the attitude. I am disturbed that we as a people (I don't necessarily mean us on TT), as mankind can be so insensitive and uncaring. In one, two or three generations we seem to want to forget what we ashuman beingswish had never happened. It's a disgusting human trait. I'm not even sure why I'm writing and forwarding this except that it's my wish and plea that all you parents and grandparents take an active role in our childrens education. If we don't teach the truth that these horrible acts REALLY did happen, within another generation history will be completely rewritten. I know that with my own daughter the school system was already attempting to deny several less than honorable events in history. Some of it was regarding WW1, WW2 and even the American Revolution and the Civil War. However, Tiff was sharp enough to recognize the distortion and ask at home about things. For me the most disturbing thing was that the school board could care less and even went along with the curriculums distorted agenda. The result was in order to get a passing grade, Tiff had to answer test questions with, as she called it, lies. If that is what it takes to pass in the worlds system, something is really wrong. But that means WE have to educate our children ourselves and continue to encourage them to teach the truth and remember the horrors of man to their children. OK, off the stump and back into my hole in the log. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
Re: [TruthTalk] Judy's Plagiarism
Because the unrepentant, refuse the council of their elders! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 6:19 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judy's Plagiarism jt: Why does itfeel this morning like this list is more like a"dialoguing with the devil" list than one whose purpose is to discussthe truth? The accuser is "empowered" On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 05:41:04 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Izzy says of 'hypocrisy, deceit and dishonesty that 'believers do not do these things'.Excepting David Miller who, if I read him aright, claims sinless perfection (you do don't you David? Correct me on this if I've misread you.) I'm going to go out on a very short limb while suggesting that every participant on TT, past and present, has done, doesand, will do these things.Exceptions? Hands please! From: Slade Henson In that case, Izzy, what do you call it? She criticized others for reading the words of "sages" and here she was doing likewise in the closet... and got caught. If this is not hypocrisy, then you need to give me a definition. -- slade From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily What upsets me much more than the fact that you plagiarized -- something we have probably all done at one time or another -- is the hypocrisy, the deceit, the dishonesty of it all. I hope, Bill, this is NOT something of which one should accuse a Believer, as Believers do NOT do these things (hypocrisy, the deceit, the dishonesty). Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Judy's Plagiarism
Well Bishop, I think ya got the nail gun cranked up to drive pole barn spikes! Thanks, Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:29 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Judy's Plagiarism In a message dated 12/28/2004 12:16:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: None of us want you to be in the position you are in Judy. We all want to see you move beyond it to healing.I have just started my morning pilgrimage and this was first on the agenda. I want to make myself crystal clear about "disagreement" here on TT. I love it. Iron sharpens iron is a good thing. If I wrote, and you all did nothing but agree, I would, someday, become an atheist .. not a joke in this case. Think about it. What keeps us on track if not the continual comparision of ides -- of course this only works for those who honest with themself. Where do thinking Christians go to share their ideas and affirm/amend their thinking? I doubt seriously that anyone on this forum would argue the point when I answer that question with "Certianly not at church." The one thing we all have in common is the fact that we are all thinkers. Sad to say, it no longer appears that fellowship in Christ is the commonality, but thinking is a good second place finisher. That brings me to this observation: all that is needed to initiate the fires of bitter disagreement is a challenge to the integrity of those who write against us. You stress the point that my comments border on the blasphemus, that I think the way I do because of my spiritual blindness, that one might move to expell me from the larger Body of Christ, that I am dishonest, that I cannot and do not think for myself and so on ad infinitum, and I will fight back --- sooner or later. When I do give in to the fight, I, without question, cross the line as drastically as any on this forum. There is in the mind of the "respondent," a sudden desire to give others a taste of their own medicine. We all do this.Speaking for myself, when I do cross the line, I eventually am convicted by the Spirit that is within me. Proof of this was my use of "ignorant" against Linda. I came back with a retraction/apology fairly quickly -- not because of Linda's complaint but because of my personal realtionship with God in Christ. With (esp) Judy and David, it is not the disagreement that gets to me. It is what is presented above. These two simply cannot or will not disagree without expressing their judgments concerning ones character or the character of those who contribute (Kruger, Torrence, Bonhoefffer) as if any of that analysis has anything to do with the ideas themselves being debated. That is my only aggravation with this forum. Judy's debate is fine. Her judgmentalism is not. And the hypocricy comes when one who as guilty as ANY of us pretends that they are not. WhateverJohn
Re: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Son?
Hard to understand is how I understand "Abstruse". But, then English ain't my major an iffen ya'll don mind, I are gonna stay the was I is, OK? Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 6:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Son? Jeff:Abstruse ambiguous do not mean the same thing. Brevity needs little defining. - Original Message - From: Jeff Powers To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 27, 2004 16:27 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Son? So Lance, You think my posts are ambiguous? I don't agree, but thats beside the point! As for brevity, I've been intentionally quiet. Although I may rattle all your cages soon, just to show that I can really do it! Maybe this week. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 5:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Son? Izzie:Please note David's most appropriate response to me. Jeff and I are in competition with one another over brevity and abstrusivity (no such word?). I do believe he's winning just now. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 26, 2004 23:01 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Son? Vetoed by Izzy. It is this 'display' that I, speaking only for myself, find tiresome. I NEVER TIRE OF YOU. FURTHER, I WISH THAT YOU WOULD POST SHORTER POSTS BUT, MORE FREQUENTLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] Let's get clear on this one -- please
A, gotta love that line! "Is you is or is you ain't" I think the redneck's and some of the biker element on TT will remember this line and appreciate it in a new light! Thanks John! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:24 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Let's get clear on this one -- please In a message dated 12/28/2004 6:11:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17.24) judy: Bill I don't mind you disagreeing with me but John 17:24 in no way validates this "Eternal Son" doctrine - nor does it say anything precisely about the Son's relationship with the Father. What John 17:24 conveys is the existence of the Father - Son relationship from the foundations of the world. It does not explain how God can be a Father without a marriage contract, without a wife, without a mother to His children. It does not explain how it is that God the Father is our Only Parent. It does not explain ANYTHING. It just affirms the Father - Son relationship. I love it when the very best rebuttal is the simple quoting and requoting of scripture. Either you is a believer or you ain't. John
Re: [TruthTalk] Are there any bad Christian's in the House?
I'll keep my stories in the farthest reaches of my swiss- cheese brain as I can! Me TOO! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 7:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Are there any bad Christian's in the House? Yes, I did want an honest answer and, I thank you for giving one. ME TOO! Churches, those who fill 'em up and why so many want nothing to do with either. I got stories...It sounds like you got stories. - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 28, 2004 07:39 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Are there any bad Christian's in the House? Do you really want an honest answer?? I think we all have hypocrisy to some extent. Deceitful, to some extent. Dishonest, to some extent. Personally, out of all the people I knownon-believers have shown to be kinder than most Christians I know. Non-believers I know have been repeatedly offended by Christians who are just plain mean. I don't even like to refer to myself as a Christian because of the bad connotations that come with it. Kay -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Jonathan HughesSent: Monday, 27 December, 2004 23.12To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Are there any bad Christian's in the House? Jonathan responds, attempting to keep himself reined in: Are you kidding me? Christians are not hypocrites, deceitful or dishonest? You obviously have never met a Christian then. You have also never looked in the mirror. If you truly think this you are living in a make-believe Candy-Land world. Happy place, happy place, take me to my happy place. Jonathan
Re: [TruthTalk] Orthodoxy
What reality? This is all an illusion! Back to my hole in the log again, jeff - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 7:52 Subject: [TruthTalk] Orthodoxy I'm offering up two titles for your consideration. Either could be read alone or, with a group. Jinkins, Michael. Invitation to Theology.Invervarsity Press, 2001 A Guide to Study, Conversation Practice "The meaning and shape of our life together as a community of persons is grounded in the inner life of God, the Trinity, and has been revealed to us in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ." "Centered on the trinitarian love of God, Jinkins's book ties together Christian doctrine, worship and service, and helpfully exposes the destructiveness of modern individualism in both church and society. An excellent choice for a first course in theology." Daniel Migliore Contents Class 1: What's the Use of Theology? Class 2: Methods in the Madness Class 3: I Believe in God Class 4: I Believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven Earth Class 5: I Believe in Jesus Christ, His Only Son, Our Lord Class 6: Conceived by the Holy Spirit, Born of the Virgin Mary, Suffered, Dead Buried Class 7: Our Humanity in Light of Jesus Christ Class 8: The Holy Spirit Class 9: The Holy Catholic Church Class 10:The Forgiveness of Sins Class 11:The Resurrection of the Body Life Everlasting Torrance, Thomas F. The Trinitarian Faith. TT Clark, 1988 "The Author provides an account of the principal themes of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. "With its masterful synthesis of minute patristic scholarship and rigorous conceptual analysis, the book is to be highly recommended." Christoph Schwobel Contents 1. Faith and Godliness 2. Access to the Father 3. The Almighty Creator 4. God of God, Light of Light 5. The Incarnate Saviour 6. The Eternal Spirit 7. The One Church 8. The Triunity of God Bonus titles that one might choose to look into: Farrow, Douglas. Ascension and Ecclesia (On the significance of the doctrine of the ascension for ecclesiology and christian cosmology) Eerdmans, 1999 McLaren, Brian D. A Generous Orthodoxy (Why I am a missional + evangelical + post/protestant + liberal/conservative + mystical/poetic + biblical + charismatic/contemplative + fundamentalist/calvinist + anabaptist/anglican + methodist + catholic + green + incarnational + depressed-yet-hopeful + emergent + unfinished Christian) Zondervan, 2004 Rember, 'reality IS a nuisance for those who want to make it up as they go along' There is a history. There are traditions. We ignore both at our own peril. sincerely, Lance, the non-theologian+
Re: [TruthTalk] Let's get clear on this one -- please
I try to please! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 17:14 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Let's get clear on this one -- please In a message dated 12/28/2004 2:12:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A, gotta love that line! "Is you is or is you ain't" I think the redneck's and some of the biker element on TT will remember this line and appreciate it in a new light! Thanks John!JeffIt am glad that you are so danged happy today !!John
Re: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Son?
So Lance, You think my posts are ambiguous? I don't agree, but thats beside the point! As for brevity, I've been intentionally quiet. Although I may rattle all your cages soon, just to show that I can really do it! Maybe this week. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 5:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Son? Izzie:Please note David's most appropriate response to me. Jeff and I are in competition with one another over brevity and abstrusivity (no such word?). I do believe he's winning just now. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 26, 2004 23:01 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Eternal Son? Vetoed by Izzy. It is this 'display' that I, speaking only for myself, find tiresome. I NEVER TIRE OF YOU. FURTHER, I WISH THAT YOU WOULD POST SHORTER POSTS BUT, MORE FREQUENTLY.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ
would you care to elaborate? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 5:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ There are four bona fide 'theologians' on TT and one wanna be. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 26, 2004 21:57 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:43 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ ShieldsFamily wrote: I fail to see the importance of it. When you see the Son you see the Father. They are One. So whats your earthshaking point??? Izzy Exactly what my wife and I have been wondering Iz. Bill is either straining at gnats, or so far ahead of me that I cannot begin to see what he sees.Terry Or so far behind??? (You could be light years ahead, Terry.) Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ
:) - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 19:16 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ Only while wearing silk! -- slade -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Monday, 27 December, 2004 16.36To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 20:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ Ahh, sorta like tree hugging vegetarian (if it's organic) anti hunting spotted owl watchers in favor of women's right to choose. The same ilk?=== Terry have you ever hunted ilk ? Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Is comparing passages from different books valid?
good point! jeff - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 12:11 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Is comparing passages from different books valid? The throne of Solomon was not established forever because this was conditional upon Solomon being obedient. He was not obedient, therefore it was given to the descendants of Nathan (see the genealogy of Mary in the Gospels). For clarification purposes: The throne of David IS established forever and this is an unconditional fact, and Messiah, the son of David, rules all who submit to His authority. -- slade -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Sunday, 26 December, 2004 12.01To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Is comparing passages from different books valid? jt: It has to be because the only other son of David who was given a throne was Solomon and his throne certainly wasn't established forever - in fact he knew he had lost the kingdom before his death. It has to be referring to Christ, the son who learned obedience by the things he suffered by the hands of men.
Re: [TruthTalk] Deliberate sin
You got it Terry! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 15:05 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Deliberate sin Slade Henson wrote: Hello, Terry. Everyone except Messiah has sinned intentionally/deliberately. The includes Older Testament saints/nonsaints as well as Newer-Testament saints nonsaints. The sacrificial system shows the severity of unintentional sin... the wages are death. In the case of intentional sin, I use King David as a model... HE threw himself on the mercy of YHVH (I have sinned before YHVH!) and he was forgiven... WITHOUT sacrifice. This debt is paid by God Himself... on a tree just east of Jerusalem about 1,974 years ago. In the case of rebellion, the Sabbath breaker, Korach, etc, are given death. -- slade == So then I misunderstood? Both intentional and unintentional was forgivable but rebellion was/is not? -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ
Terry, Did ya have to bring in the new-age mumbo jumbo? Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 15:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ Bill Taylor wrote: Thank you very much, Izzy. I apologize for not expressing the significance of my concern more clearly. You say that 'Jesus' existed with the Father prior to His appearance in physical form. My question for you is, was Jesus the Father's Son when he existed in this eternal pre-incarnate state with his "FATHER"? Please do not misunderstand me: I am not arguing for an eternal physical Son. I am arguing for an eternal Son who became physical at a point in human history, a Son who embodied flesh to be "God with us," that we might know the heart of God, God for who he is, that we might more fully uphold in our worship and devotion this most central oftruths: the eternal loving relationship between the Father and the Son and the Son and the Father in the Holy Spirit. The significance of this is not to diminish the doctrine of the eternal Word (Joh 1) --not at all, I very much embrace and uphold this doctrine. But I believe the Word can only rightly and truly be known as he has made himself known to us in the Son of God, Jesus Christ. To speak of the Word in any capacity other than the capacity whichwe know him in the Son, is to speak of him in abstraction andto rationalize him away from our understanding of him as God, the God who revealed himself to us in personal, relationalexistence as the Son of the Father. This pre-existent 'Jesus,' as you have identified him,can therefore only be known to usin thecapacity in which he came to us in the incarnation of the Son of God, Emmanuel. We dare not chase away in our thinking ofdivine Sonship the ideaof his eternal existence, for to do so is tocloud our ability toknow God and to relate to him as he desires to be known -- in the way he has revealed himself to us as Son of the Father: "God ... has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds" (Hebrews 1.1-2). And so the significance of this distinction -- and the reason why I am not straining gnats -- is in knowing or not knowing the eternal Word in personal, relational categories. To deny the eternal Sonship of Christ and to set in his place a rationally-static "Word" doctrine, is to depersonalize the relationship most central to the heart of God: the Father-Son relationship --"that they may be one just as We are one" (Joh 17.22b).To say that the Son is not eternal is to say that this relationship is not the most important relationship of all eternity. It is to say that this relationship is not eternal. It is to say that God in eternity past was something other than he is in eternity present, now that hedoes haveat his heart this Father-Son relationship.To deny the eternal Sonship of Christ is therefore to diminish and chase away this most important of doctrines --therelational unity, which is the oneness of our God; either thator it is to deny the very importance of that relationship itself. Moreover, it isto introduce into our thinking the subtle necessity that God had to create in order to be fully, perfectly God: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I hope this is helpful. I pray the opportunity in coming days to go ahead and expand upon the importance of this most important distinction that I am drawing. Bill =Just one question. If God is the eternal father, and Jesus is the eternal son, who is the eternal mother?Terry
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ
its pagan goddess worship! like mother earth, aphrodite, Ishtar, etc. A mother goddess. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 18:50 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ Jeff Powers wrote: Terry, Did ya have to bring in the new-age mumbo jumbo? Jeff ==You lost me Jeff. I don't even know what new age is. Now if you want to know about old age, I am sure I can help you.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ
YUP! - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 20:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ Ahh, sorta like tree hugging vegetarian (if it's organic) anti hunting spotted owl watchers in favor of women's right to choose. The same ilk?===Jeff Powers wrote: its pagan goddess worship! like mother earth, aphrodite, Ishtar, etc. A mother goddess. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 18:50 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ Jeff Powers wrote: Terry, Did ya have to bring in the new-age mumbo jumbo? Jeff ==You lost me Jeff. I don't even know what new age is. Now if you want to know about old age, I am sure I can help you.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ
For the sake of her convoluted truth, Judy is in denial. Can ya see it now Judy? This is why people get frustrated talking with you. I could tear your ststement to pieces if I chose, but consider this a christmas present from me, I am trying not to upset people while they celebrate their holiday. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 23:30 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ jt: He was the Word of God from the foundation of the world. He became a son at the incarnation when God provided Him a body. He was begotten, not made and His blood was/is the eternal blood of the New Covenant which is non sectarian in spite of the fact that He was born under the law of Moses to a young Jewish girl - On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:06:08 -0700 "Bill Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He was the Son of the Father, the Word who was with God and was God "in beginning," and when he appeared in a flesh body,hehad Jewish blood running throughhis veins. Bill jt: Actually He was the Word of the Father, who, in the fullness of time, appeared among us in a flesh body. On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:21:33 -0500 "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I AM attempting to get rooted inThat Mind! Was Messiah a Greek or Hebrew? - slade jt: Slade and Lance, is there any good reason why we can notforget about both Greek and Hebrew mindsets and begin to focus upon and discuss "the mind of Christ"? jht
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ
AMEN Bill! - Original Message - From: Bill Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 1:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ jt: He was the Word of God from the foundation of the world. He became a son at the incarnation when God provided Him a body. He was begotten, not made and His blood was/is the eternal blood of the New Covenant which is non sectarian in spite of the fact that He was born under the law of Moses to a young Jewish girl - To the contrary, Judy: As far back as God goes, the Word was God -- "In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, andGod was the Word."(John 1.1 -- wooden literal translation) The Word "became flesh." (see John 1.14) But he was always the Son; i.e., he is the eternal Son-- "Jesus answered, 'If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.' ... Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.'"(John 8.54,58) "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."(John 17.5) "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world."(John 17.24) He was a Jew from the Seed (sperma -- Literally "sperm") of Abraham -- "Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, 'And to seeds,' as of many, but as of one, 'And to your Seed,' who is Christ."(Galatians 3.16) He was a Jew from the fruit of David's body (karpou tes osphuos autou-- Literally the "fruit of his genitals")-- "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand,Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."(Acts 2.29-36) Judy, in all sincerity may I suggest that you not push this one. You are treading on sacred ground. At the same time you are bordering on denying both the full divinity ofChrist and his human heritage. Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of the Father, the Word of God; he is also fully human,born of a Jewish woman of the line of David, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham. Please reconsider what you are saying. Thisone is too important to deny. Sincerely, your brother, Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ jt: He was the Word of God from the foundation of the world. He became a son at the incarnation when God provided Him a body. He was begotten, not made and His blood was/is the eternal blood of the New Covenant which is non sectarian in spite of the fact that He was born under the law of Moses to a young Jewish girl - On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:06:08 -0700 "Bill Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He was the Son of the Father, the Word who was with God and was God "in beginning," and when he appeared in a flesh body,hehad Jewish blood running throughhis veins. Bill jt: Actually He was the Word of the Father, who, in the fullness of time, appeared among us in a flesh body. On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:21:33 -0500 "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I AM attempting to get rooted inThat Mind! Was Messiah a Greek or Hebrew? - slade jt: Slade and Lance, is there any good reason why we can notforget about both Greek and Hebrew mindsets and begin to focus upon and discuss "the mind of Christ"? jht
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ
And fully Jewish! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 13:08 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ Good post, Bill. I have to agree on this one. Fully human. Fully divine. Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill TaylorSent: Friday, December 24, 2004 12:45 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ jt: He was the Word of God from the foundation of the world. He became a son at the incarnation when God provided Him a body. He was begotten, not made and His blood was/is the eternal blood of the New Covenant which is non sectarian in spite of the fact that He was born under the law of Moses to a young Jewish girl - To the contrary, Judy: As far back as God goes, the Word was God --
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ
BRAVO! Well written and Bill has clearly shown why an
understanding of the original languages is SO important. Thanks
Bill,
Jeff
Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors,
we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is
prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
- Original Message -
From:
Bill Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004
14:32
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of
Christ
I will respond in black.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 7:50
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of
Christ
Bill you have overlooked and
completely negate the fact that Jesus as God's Son was begotten on a certain
day:
No, Judy, I have not overlooked this, nor do I
negate it. To begin this conversation I will simply agree with MacArthur:
"the begetting spoken of in Psalm 2 andHebrews 1 is not an event that
takes place in time. Even though at firstglance Scripture seems to
employ terminology with temporal overtones ("thisday have I begotten thee"),
the context of Psalm 2:7 seems clearly to be areference to the eternal
decree of God. It is reasonable to conclude thatthe begetting spoken
of there is also something that pertains to eternityrather than a
point in time. The temporal language should therefore beunderstood
as figurative, not literal" (emphasis added).
Phil 2:5-11 and Isa
7:14, 9:6 refer tothe incarnation when God the Word, the second person
of the Divine Trinity emptied Himself to take ona human body and
redeem mankind. snip
Philipians 2.5-11. You misunderstand the
kenosis, the question being What does it mean that the Son "empied"
himself? (I use the term "Son" interchangeably with Jesus Christ here
because as we see in verse 11 he did this -- the kenosis -- to the
"glory of God the Father." Just as the Son is the eternal Son of the Father,
the Father is the eternal Father of the Son. If there were a time when the
Son was not, then there must also have been a time when the Father was not:
Are you willing to go this far, Judy?) We read in verse 5 that Paul's desire
is that the mind of his readers be that of Jesus Christ. What does it mean
that we have the mind in us that is in Christ? We look to the following
verses to receive our answer. When Paul states that Jesus "emptied" himself,
he is not saying that the Son divested himself of deity or that he gave up
his divine nature. To the contrary, this could not be what Paul meant to
convey. Jesus interpreted himself as divine: "He who has seen me has
seen the Father" (see Joh 6.46). The Son could not empty himself of
divinity, "the very morphe of God," and at the same time claim to
be the visible _expression_ of God, "Godwith us." The Jews understood
this quite well. In their culture to call yourself the Son of God was to
equate yourself with G-d; it wasto claim the statusthat only he
enjoyed; it was to declare yourself divine. There is no missing this
point.Again I quote MacArthur: "The son was, after all, of the very
same essenceas his father, heir to all the father's rights and
privileges--and thereforeequal in every significant regard. So when
Jesus was called 'Son of God,' itwas understood categorically by all
as a title of deity, making Him equalwith God and (more significantly)
of the same essence as the
Father. Thatis precisely why the Jewish leaders regarded
the title 'Son of God' as highblasphemy."Indeed to know Jesus
was to know his Father, that is, to know exactly what God was like through
the visible earthlywitness of his Son -- Emmanuel.
No, it was not his divinity that the Son -- or as
you choose to call him, "the Word" -- divested himself of. What was the
kenosis? In taking on the form of a slave the Son emptied himself
of the glory, the honor, the equality that he deserved and had share with
his Father from eternity. The key word to understand the meaning of this
passage is arpagmos. It is found in verse 6. Our English
translations render it as "robbery" or "something to be grasped"; however,
these translations do not do service to the thrust of this word.
Arpagmos appears only this one time in the New Testament; it is not
used in the Septuagint and it is rarely used in contemporaneous
extra-biblical writings; hence the difficulty in translating it. Yet Paul
was astute in his scholarship, acute in his wording. On those ocassion where
the word was used,it meant something on the order of exploitation or
taking advantage of a situation.
Paul writes in verse 6 that the Son did not
Re: [TruthTalk] Here is Part of the Problem
Izzy, I've been spanked before! I'll take my chances, but thanks for the advise, Jeff - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 13:02 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Here is Part of the Problem Jeff, due to your close proximity to Mr. Moderator, Id advise you to be on your best behavior. J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff PowersSent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 5:41 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Here is Part of the Problem This is begging for an ad hominim! But I promised myself I was going to TRY TO BEHAVE while most on TT are celebrating their holiday. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov -Original Message-From:Judy TaylorSent: Thursday, 23 December, 2004 10.17Subject: [TruthTalk] Here is Part of the Problem of Doing Things Lance's Way This was to show how this kind of thing just leads to more wrangling over definitions So we are better off tostick withscripture to begin with and go to the Lord for wisdom in interpreting and understanding His Word- jht
Re: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited
I have to add my .02 also, NO - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 13:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited NO! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 23, 2004 13:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited jt: Slade and Lance, is there any good reason why we can notforget about both Greek and Hebrew mindsets and begin to focus upon and discuss "the mind of Christ"? jht From: "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]By the way, You see Hebrew Mindset being placed on a pedestal. Isee morepeople calling it cultic and dangerous.-- slade
Re: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited
Pfennig, sir! but then I think it may be worth more if it were shekels! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 18:05 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited Hey, Jeff... is that in fennigs, pesos, shillings, groschen, bobs, shekels, or tanners? -- slade -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Jeff PowersSent: Thursday, 23 December, 2004 17.27To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited I have to add my .02 also, NO - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 13:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited NO! - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 23, 2004 13:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited jt: Slade and Lance, is there any good reason why we can notforget about both Greek and Hebrew mindsets and begin to focus upon and discuss "the mind of Christ"? jht From: "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]By the way, You see Hebrew Mindset being placed on a pedestal. Isee morepeople calling it cultic and dangerous.-- slade
Re: [TruthTalk] Here is Part of the Problem
This is begging for an ad hominim! But I promised myself I was going to TRY TO BEHAVE while most on TT are celebrating their holiday. Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov -Original Message-From:Judy TaylorSent: Thursday, 23 December, 2004 10.17Subject: [TruthTalk] Here is Part of the Problem of Doing Things Lance's Way This was to show how this kind of thing just leads to more wrangling over definitions So we are better off tostick withscripture to begin with and go to the Lord for wisdom in interpreting and understanding His Word- jht
Re: [TruthTalk] The Hebrew Mindset
A, YES! Bubbe's favorite cure-all! Jeff Life makes warriors of us all. To emerge the victors, we must arm ourselves with the most potent of weapons. That weapon is prayer. --Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 5:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Hebrew Mindset It couldn't hurt! Have a bowl of 'chicken noodle' then, post again. (Paalllse, no offence intended) - Original Message - From: Pete [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: December 21, 2004 19:54 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Hebrew Mindset 2. In eschatology, there is the idea that there is no heaven we inherit, but that this earth and what is here and observable with the physical senses is all there is to reality. The promises of God are all viewed as belonging to earth and only the literal earthly fulfillment is in view, much like the Jehovah's Witnesses share in their eschatology. Of course, as with monism, not all Hebrews viewed it this way. The Pharisees are an example of a sect of Hebrews who were more like the Greeks in their way of thinking. As you know, the Greeks got their views about the immortality of the soul and the existence of angels and monotheism (One God) from Plato. Rather than the seen world being what is real, it is the unseen world. Remember Plato's talk of forms? Early church fathers like Justin Martyr argued that Plato got his views from Moses. Hey David. What evidence does he present? Doe she actually say that he got his ideas from Moses or does Justin Martyr assert this from his own beliefs? The interesting thing here is that the early Hebrews often considered their culture to be superior to that of others. They had pride in the fact that they were descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We see similar tendencies expressed here from various members on this list who think that anything other than the ancient Hebrew mindset is sure to fall into deception and gross misunderstanding. The feeling that the Hebrew mindset is superior becomes so strong that it often becomes a basis for fellowship and for discernment of right and wrong. It even leads to the rejection of Greek words, so that Peter as a name is rejected and replaced with Cephas instead. The name Paul is rejected and replaced with Sha'ul. The name Jesus is rejected and replaced with Yeshua or Yahshua. The general idea is that if it is Hebrew it is good and of God, but if it is from Greek origin it is bad. Therefore, start thinking and talking like a Hebrew and you will find godliness. :-) Get the idea? Are they serious about this? You mean I am going to have to learn Greek and Hebrew to grow in grace? Pete -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Right Way To Get To The Truth
John, you just reminede me of a song, "Just as I Am" thanks, Jeff Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 10:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Right Way To Get To The Truth In a message dated 12/20/2004 1:31:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jt: I'll say... becausePeople CAN/DO change - when they are in Christ (2 Cor 5:17)However, the rebellious, stubborn and obdurant are another matterentirely and the current incarnation "community" fad on TT makes no difference at all - God cut them off under the Old Covenant andif there is no repentance forthcoming they are also either cut off or else they never enter into the New Covenant in Christ..I will let Kay speak for herself, but there are many sins, whose root remains with us (addictions and lusts that have been lived out and are full blown circumstances.) I already know that you will not agree, but I have seen a number who would come to the Lord but for the belief that they must first defeat their sin problem. I think a gospel that preaches such is a false gospel. John
Re: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited
"Linguistic??... would this be acceptable with
you?"
No it is not! You know neither Hebrew or Greek,
therefore you are unprepaired to make an authoritative comment or response.
Lets use the words we have been given in scripture! That would mean
Hebrew and Greek! Everything else is translation and interpretation. Which
brings us to the root of the problem; divisive people bent on having the last
and ONLY word. The,"Everyone else can go squat, because they are wrong"
mentality.
What a sickening and disturbing way to be. We
must strive over the ENGLISH words of our translations to get to the true
meaning, thats what we are told by Rav Sha'ul in his epistle to Timothy,"Study
to show yourself approved..." CONTEXT,CONTEXT, CONTEXT, without
putting a 21st century spin, or personal agendaon everything. And
yes I have an agenda, to understand scripture in the context in which it was
written,fromthe Hebraicmindset scripture was written in. Like
it or not, when you remove the Hebraic background from scripture, you get the
muddy field we now struggle to get through. And most of the divisive
mud-slinging with which we (most of us here) are forced to sift through in order
to gain a few pearls here and there.
We will never (this side of Heaven) come to a full
agreement on many issues here, but must we be plagued withself-righteous
blather thatcauses nothing but division?
Jeff
Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the victors,
we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That weapon is
prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thus endeth the lesson ('til you engage in some
linguistic homework)
jt: Linguistic?? I don't see the
problem as being one of language. In fact, we are warned against striving over
words in scripture
Why can't we agree to use the words
we have been given in scriptureand pray to Godfor understanding.
Would this be acceptable
with you?
Re: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited
think purple for jeff:
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004
18:57
Subject: [TruthTalk] TOE revisited
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Linguistic??... would this be acceptable with
you?"
No it is not! You know
neither Hebrew or Greek, therefore you are unprepaired to make an
authoritative comment or response. Lets use the words we have
been given in scripture! That would mean Hebrew and Greek!
Everything else is translation and interpretation. Which brings us to the root of the problem; divisive people bent on having
the last and ONLY word. The,"Everyone else can go squat, because they
are wrong" mentality. (how
lovingJeff). What a
sickening and disturbing way to be. We must strive over
the ENGLISH words of our translations to get to the true meaning...
"The servant of the Lord must not strive but be patient with all men, apt to
teach"
thats what we are told by Rav Sha'ul in his epistle to
Timothy,"Study to show yourself approved..." CONTEXT,CONTEXT,
CONTEXT, without putting a 21st century spin, or personal agendaon
everything.
Is this the same Rav Shau'l who became all things to all men so thathe might win
some of them?
And yes I have an agenda, to understand scripture in
the context in which it was written,fromthe
Hebraicmindset scripture was written in. Like it or not, when you
remove the Hebraic background from scripture, you get the muddy field we now
struggle to get through. And most of the divisive
mud-slinging with which we (most of us here) are forced to sift through
in order to gain a few pearls here and there.
Scripture was written with a Holy Ghost
mindset Jeff, sorry about that - sorry to burst the bubble but Jesus
created the Gentiles also, being Hebrew gives you no monopoly and never
did. Righteousness is what
exalts a nation - sin is a reproach to any people. And how are you
soblind to your own mud slinging right here in this
message?
I do belive I've made my point! Judy is
right and everyone else is wrong. Nuff Said!
We will never (this side of Heaven) come to a full
agreement on many issues here, but must we be plagued
withself-righteous blather thatcauses nothing but
division? Jeff
If I were you I would cease and desist
Jeff (take those thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ) because in
Christ there is no male, female, Hebrew, Greek, bond, or free.
Sectarian spirits are the ones who
cause division every time.
Life makes warriors of us all.To emerge the
victors, we must armourselves with the most potent of weapons.That
weapon is prayer.--Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thus endeth the lesson ('til you engage in some
linguistic homework)
jt: Linguistic?? I don't see the
problem as being one of language. In fact, we are warned against striving
over words in scripture
Why can't we agree to use the
words we have been given in scriptureand pray to Godfor
understanding. Would this be
acceptable
with you?
Re: [TruthTalk] Intentional sin -- the Judas factor
It means despite some misguided attempts at interpreting scripture John thinks as I do, Judas Iscariot is not neccessarily burning in hell. Judas did what he did from the heart, he loved Yeshua and in his own way was attempting to force Yeshua's hand. Did it backfire? some might say yes, but it worked according to God's plan. To me thats as it had to be. But some have to kick the scapegoat even harder than he kicked himself. May I suggest an intense study of Jewish history? It seems lacking here! jeff - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Intentional sin -- the Judas factor In a message dated 12/15/2004 8:28:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I repeat, JohnJesus said Judas was lost. You can toss out all the definitions you want, but you know what Jesus meant. Izzy Actually I don't. I have never studied the issue. I am not saying you are wrong -- I am saying that "lost" does not mean "lost." The biblical message is not that simple. If it were, all honest people would agree. But there is much much more to this business of spiritual growth than meets the eye. You know that !!John John, wake up. Did you ever sing Amazing Grace? Remember the words, I once was lost, but now Im found,? What did that mean to you? Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Intentional sin -- the Judas factor
I hear it coming, "when is your spiritual birthday?" theres something about this line of thinking that is intrinsically convolouted and corrupted. thank you evangelical righteousness!! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 23:33 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Intentional sin -- the Judas factor From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 8:05 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Intentional sin -- the Judas factor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/16/2004 3:40:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: God saved me in spite of myself. It is a song about how I see the spiritual world. I have never had the opinion that I was unsaved -- but I can sing "I once was lost" with feeling. JD Opinions aside, brother John, could you clarify the above for me? I know that you cannot be saying that you have always been saved, but that is what I got at first reading.Terry Maybe he was born saved, so he didnt have to get born again? Izzy
Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth always rational?
if its only spots nothing to worry about John, if is running down the screen like rain from a monsoon, then I'd worry! jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth always rational? In a message dated 12/13/2004 7:48:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you remember when John and I were in hot debate a few months ago? Mostpeople saw only anger and spittle. If the two dialoging are Jewish sages,they are being passionate for their positions. Once the debate is over... oreven while it's still going on... they will break to eat and will have noill feelings toward their opponent. It's not a personal issue and it's not abelittling issue. It's the love of Torah that spurns each one to understandthe Truth of God's message. Sometimes a Rabbi ill take a "devil's advocate"position just to see where the discussion will go.However, I must admit that the person must be seeking Truth, not just thedesire to be found victorious. There can only be one motivation for debate."spittle" Is that what I have on the inside of my monitor screen? Wondered how it got there. Make love not warSmithers out !!!
Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching
IF? John that should read WHEN! jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 2:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Street Preaching In a message dated 12/13/2004 11:27:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh yes. That is why I said that if it were not for the wickedness of men, we could enjoy a great theocracy. Only with Jesus as King can a theocracy succeed.And, perhaps even mre impotantly, a theocracy will never work except for the above. I am not a Jerry Falwell fan. Ten years ago, he had a great deal of power. Kind of scary. I am very much a traditional a-mellenialist when it comes to the kindgom and the future. But if Christ does return to rule on this earth -- it will be the only time that a working theocracy will every have a chance. Go Fighting Irish JD
Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth always rational?
in the context of your previous remark, THIS IS the
point. Sorry G you are dead wrong on this one
jeff
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004
23:56
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth always
rational?
not the
point
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:42:45 -0500 "Slade Henson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
..Pharisaism
is now called ..
||
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent:
Monday, 13 December, 2004 15.49To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth always rational?
myth ('they'
are dead)
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:02:44 -0500
"David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:|| Matthew 23:2-3
(2) ... The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (3) ALL
THEREFORE WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE
Re: [TruthTalk] Sabbath
right Terry, start to end. Genesis to Revelation. It's all about Yeshua and God's love for us Jeff - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 20:04 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Sabbath David Miller wrote: Terry wrote: Matthew 5:19, in my opinion, was in effect until the resurrection. At the moment that Jesus said, It is finished, the veil in the temple was torn in two, and the law of Moses was fulfilled. Not meaning to belabor the point, but please seriously consider what I am about to say. Mat. 5:19 starts with, Whosoever THEREFORE ... We should look at the previous verse to see why Mat. 5:19 is even being taught by Jesus. Mat. 5:18 says that the law would not be fulfilled until heaven and earth pass away, and this is why he says what he does in verse 19. Following is the passage for your consideration: Matthew 5:17-19 (17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. So it seems to me that his statement of, it is finished, could not be talking about the law of Moses being finished. I'm not even sure why you would insert that idea. Considering that the work of Jesus continued afterward, it seems to me that it is finished refers to his earthly work in the flesh. After this point in time, he would never again be in the weak Adamic flesh, but rather he would be in a glorified incorruptible body. You know, Paul said something similar to the it is finished statement that Jesus said. It is found in 2 Timothy 4. 2 Timothy 4:6-7 (6) For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. (7) I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Clearly Paul was not saying that the law of Moses was finished in this statement. Wouldn't it be reasonable to think that Jesus also meant something more in line with what Paul was communicating here in this passage? Peace be with you. David Miller. I believe that Jesus fulfilled the law. Priests are no longer necessary. Sacrifices are no longer necessary. Tithes are no longer necessary. Just as a covenant was good forever or until broken, the law was good forever or until fulfilled. If that were not so, Gentiles would be under the law, but they are not. It is Jesus, Alpha and Omega, start to finish, beginning to end. Nothing else is necessary. Terry - -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus the Messiah
I gotta agree with john here. what a tragedy loosing ones hair at such an early age, especially when it defies the male-pattern balding as in this case! G, the ipod things seem to be the rage, but maybe you should consider getting your son a rug. It may improve his interactions with the females! jeff :-) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 9:24 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Jesus the Messiah In a message dated 12/11/2004 7:35:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: B, skild in sprts/coachg/communications--semi intrstd in busins--plays O line on th TC conf champ fb team, NAIA nationaly rankd 2yrs runng; is 300+ #, a wt liftr, ladies' man, etc.Too bad about his hair lose. My lose of hair has occcured in the very opposite configuration. It is great to har of your sons friendship for each other. Sounds like you even encouraged them to make their own decisions about a lot (perhaps) of very serious matters, i.e. religion. Thanks for the pics. Does Dad take after the younger or the older? I know -- chicken before the egg but you know what I mean. It's kind of funny with my kids - somewhere along the lone, I completely lost my identity, becoming "Jame's Dad" or "Russ's old man" or (take your pick from 5 kids). People are always telling me, "you talk just like " The theory of the chicken and egg has been completely lost to the younger generation.J
Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth always rational?
meaning californication may change by the year 2435 for the better! jeff - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 9:56 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth always rational? John, Bishop of CaliforIAAA, changing the state one job at a time. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: December 12, 2004 09:57 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is Truth always rational? In a message dated 12/12/2004 5:21:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IN SOME CIRCLES he is considered the premier NT scholar in the world. He's the recently appointed Bishop of Durham (Anglican). Both he and realized eschatology are worth checking out on the internet (lot's of info available). Wright on 'the kingdom of God' also worth having a look.Conservative bias might cause some to dismiss Wright simply because he is a leader in the Anglican church -- thinking of him as one of those evil liberals. He is the author of the CD series I am currently listening too, Romans in a Week. My question to Slade about Paul, the House of Shammai and Gamaliel's contrasting thinking came from this study. I do think there is much in this study that Slade would appreciate. For neo-con theological students such I, myself, truly am, he (Wright) offers a very important contibution. John
Re: [TruthTalk] Trial of Christ
well now Terry based on your response to Izzy, I'd say that you are reading things into scripture that are not there so you can reject Torah. jeff - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Trial of Christ ShieldsFamily wrote: Terry, Even a blind man reading the 3rd commandment would not think that you cannot feed hungry animals and children, or change a soiled diaper on a baby, or minister to the sick. Or you can't eat a handful of grain as you are walking through a field. That's the kind of thing legalists read into the law. The Spirit says love is the overarching rule. You rest in Him, you think on Him, you love everyone and everything as you do this. Izzy == Sorry Iz. I just read what is there. What you surmise may be true, or may not. Based on what you have just written, who would you think is reading things into the law now? -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Trial of Christ
AMEN! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Trial of Christ Terry, what work do you see Jesus doing? Healing the sick? I think you have a basic misunderstanding of what work is in God's vocabulary. Doing kindness is never work for those who are motivated by love; it is an act of worship. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Trial of Christ Bill Taylor wrote: Terry wrote, if the law says no work on the Sabbath, and He worked on the Sabbath, what am I missing? It would seem that I am misunderstanding you, either that or perhaps you are missing a fairly significant point. Just curious, Terry, but how did Jesus remain sinless if indeed he broke the Law? Bill Excellent ! I asked what I was missing. You answered my question. All I have to do now is figure out how Jesus worked on the Sabbath without sinning. Either you can work on the Sabbath, or I do not understand what work is/was. Jesus did say that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Your thoughts please. Terry -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Trial of Christ
this goes to the saved file! we have a poet amongst us! jeff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Trial of Christ I am what I am Does not mean I cannot be what He wants me to be. Nor does "'Tis the season to be jolly"allow for the celebration of personal folly. Combine what He wants me to be with the shameful plight of "in spite" in my life,and you have found a magnanimous place for the permanence of grace. Johnny the Greek
