subject:"\[TruthTalk\] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE"









- Original Message - 
From: Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 4:04:18 PM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

So that I know for sure what you mean to convey, let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine thoughts"?

Bill
cd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold the perspective that Christ is limited in His divine thinking.I realize that the flesh would influence one thinking to my limited 'divine 'thoughts but with Christ who walked according to the Spirit I see no limitations. Nor do I admit there has to be such weakness in us as we also have the Spirit-We simply are not willing to pray and fast and abstain from things as one should to weaken this flesh and hence allow more diviness to control us.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE


cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine thoughts.




- Original Message - 
From: Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 1:53:48 PM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 6:49:49 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, namely, outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is' rather than just picking around the edges of other's comments concerning 'who Jesus is'. JUST WHICH JESUS DO YOU SPEAK OF WHEN SPing?

cd: I believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the son of God who came to earth to first teach us a more correct way (truth) and then to die on a tree for the sins of the whole world to pay God redemption price for mankind. He was divine in words, nature, and character. He was God who gave up dwelling as a spirit to take on a lower form in order to die as a spirit cannot die but the flesh can.After death He still exists in the form of a body but not one of flesh (corruption)as the price paid forever marked him also-to I believe towards his eternal glory as we will view those marks in his body. I don't believe it to be possible that God would cease to exist in his spirit nature so while he was in earthly form He had to also exist in heavenly form. This mediator (go between God and man)must exist in both forms in order to relate one to the other. In other words Christ knows what we are capable in doing and what we are capable of overcoming-therefore there will be no excuse.I hope this helps y
 ou understand my beliefs Lance.

--- Original Message - 

From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: January 14, 2006 17:42
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/14/2006 10:07:54 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Divine = God


cd: Lance Webster puts it this way-Note that Christ fits many of the below definitions.



DIVINE, a. [L., a god.] 

1. Pertaining to the true God; as the divine nature; divine perfections.
2. Pertaining to a heathen deity, or to false gods.
3. Partaking of the nature of God.
Half human, half divine.
4. Proceeding from God; as divine judgments.
5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. In this application the word admits of comparison; as a divine invention; a divine genius; the divinest mind.
A divine sentence is in the lips of the king. Prov 16.
6. Presageful; foreboding; prescient. [Not used.]
7. Appropriated to God, or celebrating his praise; as divine service; divine songs; divine worship.
DIVINE, n. 
1. A minister of the gospel; a priest; a clergyman.
The first divines of New England were surpassed by none in extensive erudition, personal sanctity, and diligence in the pastoral office.
2. A man skilled in divinity; a theologian; as a great divine.
DIVINE, v.t. [L.] 
1. To foreknow; to foretell; to presage.
Darst thou divine his downfall?
2. To deify. [Not in use.]
DIVINE, v.i. 
1. To use or practice divination.
2. To utter presages or prognostications.
The prophets thereof divine for money. Micah 3.
3. To have presages or forebodings.
Suggest but truth to my divining thoughts--
4. To guess or conjecture.
Could you divine what

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE









- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 6:46:02 PM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Dean's a Momma's boy--eh?
cd:-)

[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




I am speaking of two natures and the 
idea that "the humanity of Christ was not divine"
James wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit 
that the double minded or double souled person
is unstable in all of his ways... I don't accept the 
idea that Jesus had two natures. My belief is that
although he layed aside the glory he had with the 
father, he was born with a divine (holy) nature.
and experienced our human nature along with all of its 
falleness when he took it upon himself at the 
cross. The other side 
of the same coin though is that we become partakers of the divine nature when 

we receive Him as a covenant 
partner and agree to walk after the Spirit learning His will and His 
ways.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:24:10 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  

Dean,
I think this is where "theology" gets itself tied 
in knots. This is what JD has been accusing me of for so long.
Howironic that his mentor Bill would write 
something like this. I think Lance just repeated it to qualify 
something. 
So their Jesus must have 
a schism in his personality (or nature). What about his saying to 
Philip"If you have 
seen meyou have 
seen the Father" We know he wasn't speaking of his physical body here; 
so does God 
The Father also have a schismatic 
personality.

cd: Judy can you define your usage of 
'schismatic'.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:59:08 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  Well, yes and no, DH. I am included 
  in that circle oflove in the way that Christ's humanity is included 
  in that relationship. Butas the humanity of 
  Christ is not divine, neitheram I divine. 
  
  

cd: Lance at this point-How do you define 
"Divine"?

Re: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-16 Thread Lance Muir




IFF you are incorrect on this matter then, 'all 
truth' does NOT include this rather central and rather important matter 
concerning 'who Jesus is'.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: January 16, 2006 08:26
  Subject: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE 
  HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  I am speaking of two natures and the 
  idea that "the humanity of Christ was not 
divine"
  James wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit 
  that the double minded or double souled person
  is unstable in all of his ways... I don't accept the 
  idea that Jesus had two natures. My belief is that
  although he layed aside the glory he had with the 
  father, he was born with a divine (holy) nature.
  and experienced our human nature along with all of 
  its falleness when he took it upon himself at the 
  cross. The other 
  side of the same coin though is that we become partakers of the divine nature 
  when 
  we receive Him as a 
  covenant partner and agree to walk after the Spirit learning His will 
  and His ways.
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:24:10 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

From: Judy Taylor 

  
  Dean,
  I think this is where "theology" gets itself tied 
  in knots. This is what JD has been accusing me of for so 
long.
  Howironic that his mentor Bill would write 
  something like this. I think Lance just repeated it to qualify 
  something. 
  So their Jesus must 
  have a schism in his personality (or nature). What about his saying 
  to Philip"If you have 
  seen meyou have 
  seen the Father" We know he wasn't speaking of his physical body 
  here; so does God 
  The Father also have a schismatic 
  personality.
  
  cd: Judy can you define your usage of 
  'schismatic'.
  
  On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:59:08 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

Well, yes and no, DH. I am 
included in that circle oflove in the way that Christ's humanity 
is included in that relationship. Butas the 
humanity of Christ is not divine, neitheram I divine. 


  
  cd: Lance at this point-How do you define 
  "Divine"?

Re: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




Being human is being "made a little lower than the 
angels" I does not of necessity have to include a
"fallen human nature" which is what is implied when one 
says that His humanity was not divine. How
one can take such a stand on Jesus being God and ATST 
say his humanity was not divine is beyond
me in light of what His Own Word says about being 
"double souled" - unless what is meant by
"humanity" is the physical body without the 
soul.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:32:07 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  IFF you are incorrect on this matter then, 'all 
  truth' does NOT include this rather central and rather important 
  matter concerning 'who Jesus is'.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

I am speaking of two natures and 
the idea that "the humanity of Christ was not 
divine"
James wrote under the inspiration of the Holy 
Spirit that the double minded or double souled person
is unstable in all of his ways... I don't accept 
the idea that Jesus had two natures. My belief is that
although he layed aside the glory he had with the 
father, he was born with a divine (holy) nature.
and experienced our human nature along with all of 
its falleness when he took it upon himself at the 
cross. The other 
side of the same coin though is that we become partakers of the divine 
nature when 
we receive Him as a 
covenant partner and agree to walk after the Spirit learning His will 
and His ways.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:24:10 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  From: Judy Taylor 
  

Dean,
I think this is where "theology" gets itself 
tied in knots. This is what JD has been accusing me of for so 
long.
Howironic that his mentor Bill would 
write something like this. I think Lance just repeated it to 
qualify something. 
So their Jesus must 
have a schism in his personality (or nature). What about his 
saying to Philip"If you have 
seen meyou 
have seen the Father" We know he wasn't speaking of his physical 
body here; so does God 
The Father also have a schismatic 
personality.

cd: Judy can you define your usage of 
'schismatic'.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:59:08 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  Well, yes and no, DH. I am 
  included in that circle oflove in the way that Christ's humanity 
  is included in that relationship. Butas the 
  humanity of Christ is not divine, neitheram I divine. 
  
  

cd: Lance at this point-How do you define 
"Divine"?

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Dave Hansen makes an excellent point here.  I hope you will be able to 
respond, Bill.  I have many passages in the back of my mind that would 
support Dave Hansen on this point.

David Miller.
- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE

He is God and we are not.

DAVEH:  In a previous post, you had answered No. when I asked you if you 
believe we have divine roots.  I realize that we are not God, but yet I 
believe there is a relationship we can have with God that encourages us to 
become like him.  I assume you do not recognize that relationshipis that 
correct?  So, how do you perceive becoming one of the sons of God.do you 
believe you fit into that category, Bill?  And if so, what does it mean to 
you?

Taylor wrote:
DHSo.what do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us 
from becoming like God?

He is God and we are not.

Bill
- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE

DAVEH  As you know, the LDS believe that mortals can become like God.  I 
assume you agree with the following.

We can become perfect (in a complete sense) like God.

We can know the difference between good and evil.

We can become one with him, as he (Jesus) is one with his Father.

We will eventually be resurrected like him.

So.what do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us from 
becoming like God?

Taylor wrote:
If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ while walking 
this earth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you 
also believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
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RE: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE









- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/16/2006 8:27:21 AM 
Subject: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

I am speaking of two natures and the idea that "the humanity of Christ was not divine"
James wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the double minded or double souled person
is unstable in all of his ways... I don't accept the idea that Jesus had two natures.

cd: I also don't believe that Christ had two natures in who He was. JamesI think is speaking of one nature of a sinning person and another nature of Godliness. The two do not belong together as we cannot serve two masters. What I do believe is that Christ was of divine nature but also had to contend with ( a drawing towards sin)-as we do-with the flesh nature(ie temptations).This is why I perceive Him as "seeking God with strong tears and crying and was heard in thatHe feared God".With Him the flesh nature didn't stand a chance in it opposition to the divine because of Godly fear which is being forgotten in out modern end time teaching which is seeped in Agustin/Calvinism. Nor can it with us because of Christ's experiences-if we put God first in all things we can remain without sin(ing).



My belief is that
although he layed aside the glory he had with the father, he was born with a divine (holy) nature.
and experienced our human nature along with all of its falleness when he took it upon himself at the 
cross. The other side of the same coin though is that we become partakers of the divine nature when 
we receive Him as a covenant partner and agree to walk after the Spirit learning His will and His ways.

cd: Good we agree Judy.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:24:10 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


From: Judy Taylor 


Dean,
I think this is where "theology" gets itself tied in knots. This is what JD has been accusing me of for so long.
Howironic that his mentor Bill would write something like this. I think Lance just repeated it to qualify something. 
So their Jesus must have a schism in his personality (or nature). What about his saying to Philip"If you have 
seen meyou have seen the Father" We know he wasn't speaking of his physical body here; so does God 
The Father also have a schismatic personality.

cd: Judy can you define your usage of 'schismatic'.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:59:08 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Well, yes and no, DH. I am included in that circle oflove in the way that Christ's humanity is included in that relationship. Butas the humanity of Christ is not divine, neitheram I divine. 


cd: Lance at this point-How do you define "Divine"?

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




I was just wanting to betterunderstand 
whatyou were wanting me to agree with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also have 
divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable that we can 
agree. The word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am not completely 
satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied with doing the will of 
his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was fully intuned to the 
divine.

If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have 
a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to 
disagree; for then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 
2.17).

And, while I understood what you were saying, I also hesitate 
to speak of the person of Christ in terms of "parts": if he is fully human and 
fully divine, then he is not partly one and partly the other. Anyway, I knew 
what you meant and could thus look through it.

Thanks,

Bill



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Taylor 


So that I know for sure what you mean to 
convey, let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine 
thoughts"?

Bill
cd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold the 
perspective that Christ is limited in His divine thinking.I realize that the 
flesh would influence one thinking to my limited 'divine 'thoughts but with 
Christ who walked according to the Spirit I see no limitations. Nor do I 
admit there has to be such weakness in us as we also have the 
Spirit-We simply are not willing to pray and fast and abstain from things as 
one should to weaken this flesh and hence allow more diviness to control 
us.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  
  
  cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have 
  divine thoughts.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Taylor 

If I understand you correctly, Dean, you 
believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I 
DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ 
while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE






On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I was just wanting to betterunderstand 
  whatyou were wanting me to agree with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also have 
  divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable that we 
  can agree. The word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am not 
  completely satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied with doing 
  the will of his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was fully intuned to 
  the divine.
  
  If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not 
  have a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had 
  to disagree; for then he would not have been like 
  us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).
  
  Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not 
  mean exactly the "same as" Every human being born by procreation into 
  this fallen world
  is also fallen. There is none righteous 
  and none that does good  EXCEPT ONE.
  
  And, while I understood what you were saying, I also 
  hesitate to speak of the person of Christ in terms of "parts": if he is fully 
  human and fully divine, then he is not partly one and partly the other. 
  Anyway, I knew what you meant and could thus look through it.
  
  Thanks,
  
  Bill
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean 
Moore 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Taylor 
  
  
  So that I know for sure what you mean to 
  convey, let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine 
  thoughts"?
  
  Bill
  cd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold the 
  perspective that Christ is limited in His divine thinking.I realize that 
  the flesh would influence one thinking to my limited 'divine 'thoughts but 
  with Christ who walked according to the Spirit I see no limitations. Nor 
  do I admit there has to be such weakness in us as we also have the 
  Spirit-We simply are not willing to pray and fast and abstain from things 
  as one should to weaken this flesh and hence allow more diviness to 
  control us.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean Moore 


cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have 
divine thoughts.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Taylor 
  
  If I understand you correctly, Dean, you 
  believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. 
  I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that 
  Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.
  
  Bill

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




Been there, done that, Judy. I'm not interested in 
doing it again.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 8:14 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
I was just wanting to betterunderstand 
whatyou were wanting me to agree with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also 
have divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable 
that we can agree. The word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am 
not completely satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied with 
doing the will of his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was fully 
intuned to the divine.

If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not 
have a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had 
to disagree; for then he would not have been like 
us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).

Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not 
mean exactly the "same as" Every human being born by procreation into 
this fallen world
is also fallen. There is none 
righteous and none that does good  EXCEPT 
ONE.

And, while I understood what you were saying, I also 
hesitate to speak of the person of Christ in terms of "parts": if he is 
fully human and fully divine, then he is not partly one and partly the 
other. Anyway, I knew what you meant and could thus look through 
it.

Thanks,

Bill



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Taylor 

So that I know for sure what you mean to 
convey, let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine 
thoughts"?

Bill
cd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold the 
perspective that Christ is limited in His divine thinking.I realize that 
the flesh would influence one thinking to my limited 'divine 'thoughts 
but with Christ who walked according to the Spirit I see no limitations. 
Nor do I admit there has to be such weakness in us as we also 
have the Spirit-We simply are not willing to pray and fast and abstain 
from things as one should to weaken this flesh and hence allow more 
diviness to control us.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean Moore 
  
  
  cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have 
  divine thoughts.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Taylor 

If I understand you correctly, Dean, 
you believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully 
God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe 
that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO 
TOO.

Bill
-- This message has been scanned for 
  viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be 
  clean.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




Then apparently you never have gotten the issue 
resolved in your own mind and heart

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:05:12 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Been there, done that, Judy. I'm not interested 
  in doing it again.
  
  Bill
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 8:14 
AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE



On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I was just wanting to betterunderstand 
  whatyou were wanting me to agree with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also 
  have divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable 
  that we can agree. The word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am 
  not completely satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied with 
  doing the will of his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was fully 
  intuned to the divine.
  
  If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did 
  not have a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would 
  have had to disagree; for then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).
  
  Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not 
  mean exactly the "same as" Every human being born by procreation 
  into this fallen world
  is also fallen. There is none 
  righteous and none that does good  EXCEPT 
  ONE.
  
  And, while I understood what you were saying, I also 
  hesitate to speak of the person of Christ in terms of "parts": if he is 
  fully human and fully divine, then he is not partly one and partly the 
  other. Anyway, I knew what you meant and could thus look through 
  it.
  
  Thanks,
  
  Bill
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean Moore 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Taylor 
  
  So that I know for sure what you mean to 
  convey, let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine 
  thoughts"?
  
  Bill
  cd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold 
  the perspective that Christ is limited in His divine thinking.I 
  realize that the flesh would influence one thinking to my limited 
  'divine 'thoughts but with Christ who walked according to the Spirit I 
  see no limitations. Nor do I admit there has to be such 
  weakness in us as we also have the Spirit-We simply are not willing to 
  pray and fast and abstain from things as one should to weaken this 
  flesh and hence allow more diviness to control us.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean Moore 


cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also 
have divine thoughts.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Taylor 
  
  If I understand you correctly, Dean, 
  you believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was 
  fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also 
  believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO 
  TOO.
  
  Bill
  -- This message has been scanned for 
viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to 
be clean.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-16 Thread knpraise



If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to disagree; for then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).

Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not mean exactly the "same as" Every human being born by procreation into this fallen world
is also fallen. There is none righteous and none that does good  EXCEPT ONE.


Judy argues "like us" in total disregard of the additional phrase "IN EVERY WAY" 


-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 





On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I was just wanting to betterunderstand whatyou were wanting me to agree with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable that we can agree. The word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am not completely satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied with doing the will of his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was fully intuned to the divine.

If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to disagree; for then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).

Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not mean exactly the "same as" Every human being born by procreation into this fallen world
is also fallen. There is none righteous and none that does good  EXCEPT ONE.

And, while I understood what you were saying, I also hesitate to speak of the person of Christ in terms of "parts": if he is fully human and fully divine, then he is not partly one and partly the other. Anyway, I knew what you meant and could thus look through it.

Thanks,

Bill



- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 

- Original Message - 
From: Taylor 

So that I know for sure what you mean to convey, let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine thoughts"?

Bill
cd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold the perspective that Christ is limited in His divine thinking.I realize that the flesh would influence one thinking to my limited 'divine 'thoughts but with Christ who walked according to the Spirit I see no limitations. Nor do I admit there has to be such weakness in us as we also have the Spirit-We simply are not willing to pray and fast and abstain from things as one should to weaken this flesh and hence allow more diviness to control us.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 


cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine thoughts.

- Original Message - 
From: Taylor 

If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




Only a similitude or likeness even "in every way" is 
not the exact same thing JD.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:12:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not 
  have a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had 
  to disagree; for then he would not have been like 
  us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).
  
  Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not 
  mean exactly the "same as" Every human being born by procreation into 
  this fallen world
  is also fallen. There is none righteous 
  and none that does good  EXCEPT ONE.
  
  
  Judy argues "like us" in total disregard of 
  the additional phrase "IN EVERY WAY" 
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 





On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I was just wanting to betterunderstand 
  whatyou were wanting me to agree with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also 
  have divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable 
  that we can agree. The word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am 
  not completely satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied with 
  doing the will of his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was fully 
  intuned to the divine.
  
  If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did 
  not have a human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would 
  have had to disagree; for then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).
  
  Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not 
  mean exactly the "same as" Every human being born by procreation 
  into this fallen world
  is also fallen. There is none 
  righteous and none that does good  EXCEPT 
  ONE.
  
  And, while I understood what you were saying, I also 
  hesitate to speak of the person of Christ in terms of "parts": if he is 
  fully human and fully divine, then he is not partly one and partly the 
  other. Anyway, I knew what you meant and could thus look through 
  it.
  
  Thanks,
  
  Bill
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean Moore 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Taylor 
  
  So that I know for sure what you mean to 
  convey, let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine 
  thoughts"?
  
  Bill
  cd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold 
  the perspective that Christ is limited in His divine thinking.I 
  realize that the flesh would influence one thinking to my limited 
  'divine 'thoughts but with Christ who walked according to the Spirit I 
  see no limitations. Nor do I admit there has to be such 
  weakness in us as we also have the Spirit-We simply are not willing to 
  pray and fast and abstain from things as one should to weaken this 
  flesh and hence allow more diviness to control us.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean Moore 


cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also 
have divine thoughts.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Taylor 
  
  If I understand you correctly, Dean, 
  you believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was 
  fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also 
  believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO 
  TOO.
  
  Bill

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Well then you answer him, Miller :)   I took him to be asking if I think I
will ever be divine; i.e., a God myself. I do not. If you think otherwise,
then enlighten me too.

- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT
DIVINE

 Dave Hansen makes an excellent point here.  I hope you will be able to
 respond, Bill.  I have many passages in the back of my mind that would
 support Dave Hansen on this point.

 David Miller.
 - Original Message -
 From: Dave Hansen
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:49 AM
 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS
NOT
 DIVINE

 He is God and we are not.

 DAVEH:  In a previous post, you had answered No. when I asked you if you
 believe we have divine roots.  I realize that we are not God, but yet I
 believe there is a relationship we can have with God that encourages us to
 become like him.  I assume you do not recognize that relationshipis
that
 correct?  So, how do you perceive becoming one of the sons of God.do
you
 believe you fit into that category, Bill?  And if so, what does it mean to
 you?

 Taylor wrote:
 DHSo.what do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us
 from becoming like God?

 He is God and we are not.

 Bill
 - Original Message -
 From: Dave Hansen
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:11 PM
 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS
NOT
 DIVINE

 DAVEH  As you know, the LDS believe that mortals can become like God.  I
 assume you agree with the following.

 We can become perfect (in a complete sense) like God.

 We can know the difference between good and evil.

 We can become one with him, as he (Jesus) is one with his Father.

 We will eventually be resurrected like him.

 So.what do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us from
 becoming like God?

 Taylor wrote:
 If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ while walking
 this earth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you
 also believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

 Bill

 --
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
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 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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 --
 This message has been scanned for viruses and
 dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is
 believed to be clean.

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Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE






On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  so there is no way that this would 
  be the same concept Bill. 
  
  Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in 
  "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).
  
  Yes they did created the first Adam 
  in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 
  Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by 
  eating the wrong fruit. 
  
  Thereafter all men (including us) 
  are borninto this world by 
  procreation in the likeness of 
  the first Adam rather than the 
  likeness of God (Gen 5:3)
  
  The only possible way to 
  regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to become
  conformed to the image of the 
  second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
  and His willingness to lay down His 
  human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our place.
  
  Laying aside the fact that you are making much 
  too much of Seth having been born in the image 
  of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what would 
  be wrong, then, with killing someone who 
  was no longer created in God's image, but 
  in Adam's), 
  
  At the beginnign they were created 
  in God's image and now Noah who found grace is starting
  over even though it didn't take too 
  many generations for the whole of humanity (all but 8 ppl)
  to be destroyed. I don't 
  believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of 
  devils.
  
  Judy, I fail to understand why that should even 
  prevent Christ from being united in his person, 
  his humanness with his divinity. 
  
  I understand. It is mixture; 
  joining the holy with the profane which is something God hates.
  
  The only thing which could have severed that 
  union was the one thing which he did not do: 
  sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo 
  that which had indeed produced schizophrenia 
  in the relationship between humanity and God. 
  
  
  Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be 
  like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like the
  first Adam before the fall, the one 
  who was created? Jesus was not exactly procreated like
  us since he had no human father so 
  that must mess up your thesis at least a little.
  
  And were he not like us in every way, he could 
  not have produced this reconciliation; for what 
  he would have done in a flesh unlike our own 
  would have had no bearing upon human flesh, 
  and we would therefore still be in sin. 
  Bill
  
  Not so; all he had to do was meet 
  God's conditions which apparently involved passing the
  test that AE failed and he did 
  that in the wilderness... right after his baptism.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  so there is no way that this 
  would be the same concept Bill. 
  
  Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us 
  in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).
  
  Yes they did created the first 
  Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 
  
  Adam forfeited when 
  he chose to go with Eve into 
  disobedience by eating the wrong fruit. 
  
  Thereafter all men (including 
  us) are borninto this world by procreation in the likeness of 
  the first Adam rather than the 
  likeness of God (Gen 5:3)
  
  The only possible way to 
  regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to 
  become
  conformed to the image of the 
  second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
  and His willingness to lay down 
  His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our place.
  .
  

From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:31 
AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love 
and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:29:22 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  OK - I'm asking Bill, what husband, and what 
  schism?
  
  Oh, I thought you were married. The bible 
  says that you and your husband (if you had one) were to become "one" 
  flesh, in other words the two of you in coming together would be 
  united -- and not just physically, I might add; it is the marriage 
  "union" after all. The same is true with God. The bible teaches that 
  the Lord is "one" and it uses the same word when saying this; hence 
  there is a oneness or unity within the nature of God, a coming 
  together of a pluralityin union.
  
  God is a Spirit (Jn 4:24) 
  so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill. 
  Sure the Godhead are One and united
  in Spirit.
  
  And so, since you suggested that if 
  Christ be

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




I understand. It is mixture; 
joining the holy with the profane which is something God hates.

No, it is not a mixture, Judy; it is a union. There 
is no confusion.And that is your problem: you have a Jesus that is partly 
this and partly that, but can't be what he came to save. Yours is a mixture, 
Judy, a demigod, a hybrid, an alloy, Hermes morphing into Aphrodite --I 
don't know. But it is not Jesus Christ the Son of God, son of Mary.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  

so there is no way that this 
would be the same concept Bill. 

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in 
"their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).

Yes they did created the first 
Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 

Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by 
eating the wrong fruit. 

Thereafter all men (including us) 
are borninto this world 
by procreation in the likeness of 
the first Adam rather than the 
likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to 
regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to 
become
conformed to the image of the 
second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
and His willingness to lay down 
His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our 
place.

Laying aside the fact that you are making much 
too much of Seth having been born in the image 
of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what 
would be wrong, then, with killing someone who 
was no longer created in God's image, 
but in Adam's), 

At the beginnign they were 
created in God's image and now Noah who found grace is starting
over even though it didn't take 
too many generations for the whole of humanity (all but 8 ppl)
to be destroyed. I don't 
believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of 
devils.

Judy, I fail to understand why that should even 
prevent Christ from being united in his person, 
his humanness with his divinity. 

I understand. It is 
mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is something God 
hates.

The only thing which could have severed that 
union was the one thing which he did not do: 
sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo 
that which had indeed produced schizophrenia 
in the relationship between humanity and God. 


Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be 
like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like the
first Adam before the fall, the 
one who was created? Jesus was not exactly procreated 
like
us since he had no human father 
so that must mess up your thesis at least a little.

And were he not like us in every way, he 
could not have produced this reconciliation; for what 
he would have done in a flesh unlike our own 
would have had no bearing upon human flesh, 
and we would therefore still be in sin. 
Bill

Not so; all he had to do was meet 
God's conditions which apparently involved passing the
test that AE failed and he 
did that in the wilderness... right after his baptism.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
so there is no way that this 
would be the same concept Bill. 

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us 
in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).

Yes they did created the 
first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 

Adam forfeited when 
he chose to go with Eve 
into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit. 

Thereafter all men (including 
us) are borninto this world by procreation in the likeness of 
the first Adam rather than 
the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to 
regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to 
become
conformed to the image of the 
second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
and His willingness to lay 
down His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our 
place.
.

  
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 
  9:31 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love 
  and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:29:22

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE





Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like 
US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like the
first Adam before the fall, 
...

Because the first Adam before the fall did not need 
to be saved Judy. We do.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  

so there is no way that this 
would be the same concept Bill. 

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in 
"their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).

Yes they did created the first 
Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 

Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by 
eating the wrong fruit. 

Thereafter all men (including us) 
are borninto this world 
by procreation in the likeness of 
the first Adam rather than the 
likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to 
regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to 
become
conformed to the image of the 
second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
and His willingness to lay down 
His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our 
place.

Laying aside the fact that you are making much 
too much of Seth having been born in the image 
of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what 
would be wrong, then, with killing someone who 
was no longer created in God's image, 
but in Adam's), 

At the beginnign they were 
created in God's image and now Noah who found grace is starting
over even though it didn't take 
too many generations for the whole of humanity (all but 8 ppl)
to be destroyed. I don't 
believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of 
devils.

Judy, I fail to understand why that should even 
prevent Christ from being united in his person, 
his humanness with his divinity. 

I understand. It is 
mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is something God 
hates.

The only thing which could have severed that 
union was the one thing which he did not do: 
sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo 
that which had indeed produced schizophrenia 
in the relationship between humanity and God. 


Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be 
like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like the
first Adam before the fall, the 
one who was created? Jesus was not exactly procreated 
like
us since he had no human father 
so that must mess up your thesis at least a little.

And were he not like us in every way, he 
could not have produced this reconciliation; for what 
he would have done in a flesh unlike our own 
would have had no bearing upon human flesh, 
and we would therefore still be in sin. 
Bill

Not so; all he had to do was meet 
God's conditions which apparently involved passing the
test that AE failed and he 
did that in the wilderness... right after his baptism.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
so there is no way that this 
would be the same concept Bill. 

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us 
in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).

Yes they did created the 
first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 

Adam forfeited when 
he chose to go with Eve 
into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit. 

Thereafter all men (including 
us) are borninto this world by procreation in the likeness of 
the first Adam rather than 
the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to 
regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to 
become
conformed to the image of the 
second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
and His willingness to lay 
down His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our 
place.
.

  
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 
  9:31 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love 
  and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:29:22 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

OK - I'm asking Bill, what husband, and 
what schism?

Oh, I thought you were married. The 
bible says

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Likeness might mean like but not exactly like, but it also might mean so 
much like it as to be indistinguishable.  When we say that Jesus is the 
image of Father, or that he is like the Father, so much so that when you 
have seen Jesus you have seen the Father, it might be inappropriate to say 
that Jesus is like the Father, but not exactly like him.  Do you see it 
differently, Judy?

David Miller.


- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE


Only a similitude or likeness even in every way is not the exact same 
thing JD.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:12:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human mind, 
or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to disagree; for 
then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).

Like us is similitude Bill - it does not mean exactly the same as  Every 
human being born by procreation into this fallen world
is also fallen.  There is none righteous and none that does good  EXCEPT 
ONE.


Judy argues like us in total disregard of the additional phrase  IN EVERY 
WAY


-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I was just wanting to better understand what you were wanting me to agree 
with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also have 
divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable that we can 
agree. The word preoccupied has a ring to it with which I am not 
completely satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied with doing 
the will of his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was fully intuned to 
the divine.

If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human mind, 
or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to disagree; for 
then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).

Like us is similitude Bill - it does not mean exactly the same as  Every 
human being born by procreation into this fallen world
is also fallen.  There is none righteous and none that does good  EXCEPT 
ONE.

And, while I understood what you were saying, I also hesitate to speak of 
the person of Christ in terms of parts: if he is fully human and fully 
divine, then he is not partly one and partly the other. Anyway, I knew what 
you meant and could thus look through it.

Thanks,

Bill


- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore
- Original Message - 
From: Taylor

So that I know for sure what you mean to convey, let me ask you: do you as a 
human have divine thoughts?

Bill
cd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold the perspective that Christ is 
limited in His divine thinking.I realize that the flesh would influence one 
thinking to my limited 'divine 'thoughts but with Christ who walked 
according to the Spirit I see no limitations. Nor do I admit there has to be 
such weakness in us as we also have the Spirit-We simply are not willing to 
pray and fast and abstain from things as one should to weaken this flesh and 
hence allow more diviness to control us.
- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore

cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine thoughts.
- Original Message - 
From: Taylor

If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ while walking 
this earth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you 
also believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE






On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:22:24 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I understand. It is mixture; joining 
  the holy with the profane which is something God hates.
  
  No, it is not a mixture, Judy; it is a union. 
  
  
  Hate to have to break it to you like this 
  Bill but there are some things Jesus will not be unified with
  because the Father is holy and so is He; 
  so someone is going to have to do some adjusting here.
  
  There is no confusion.
  
  I am not confused ... No.
  
  And that is your problem: you have a Jesus 
  that is partly this and partly that, but can't be what he came to save. 
  
  
  The only difference between my Jesus and 
  yours Bill is that mine is pure and holy and yours is not 
  because you are determined to 
  makeHimconform 
  to our (fallen human) 
  image. 
  
  Yours is a mixture, Judy, 
  
  No Bill; mine is pure and holy - the exact 
  imagine of God the Father. My Jesus, unlike yours, could 
  say in truth "If you have seen me you have seen the Father" - So let God be true and every man a 
  liar.
  
  a demigod, a hybrid, an alloy, Hermes morphing 
  into Aphrodite --I don't know. 
  
  Neither do I Bill. When you have 
  mixture you don't know what you've got do you??
  
  But it is not 
  Jesus Christ the Son of God, son of Mary. Bill
  
  I know because Jesus Christ, Son of God, 
  son of Mary was the pure and holy Son of God who took 
  upon Himself the FORM of man so that He could bring to us salvation's plan 
  which sadly many wrest 
  to their own destruction..
  

From: 
Judy 
Taylor 

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  so there is no way that this 
  would be the same concept Bill. 
  
  Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us 
  in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).
  
  Yes they did created the first 
  Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 
  
  Adam forfeited when 
  he chose to go with Eve into 
  disobedience by eating the wrong fruit. 
  
  Thereafter all men (including 
  us) are borninto this world by procreation in the likeness of 
  the first Adam rather than the 
  likeness of God (Gen 5:3)
  
  The only possible way to 
  regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to 
  become
  conformed to the image of the 
  second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
  and His willingness to lay down 
  His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our 
  place.
  
  Laying aside the fact that you are making 
  much too much of Seth having been born in the image 
  of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what 
  would be wrong, then, with killing someone who 
  was no longer created in God's image, 
  but in Adam's), 
  
  At the beginnign they were 
  created in God's image and now Noah who found grace is 
  starting
  over even though it didn't take 
  too many generations for the whole of humanity (all but 8 
ppl)
  to be destroyed. I don't 
  believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of 
  devils.
  
  Judy, I fail to understand why that should 
  even prevent Christ from being united in his person, 
  his humanness with his divinity. 

  
  I understand. It is 
  mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is something God 
  hates.
  
  The only thing which could have severed that 
  union was the one thing which he did not do: 
  sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo 
  that which had indeed produced schizophrenia 
  in the relationship between humanity and God. 
  
  
  Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to 
  be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like 
  the
  first Adam before the fall, the 
  one who was created? Jesus was not exactly procreated 
  like
  us since he had no human father 
  so that must mess up your thesis at least a little.
  
  And were he not like us in every way, he 
  could not have produced this reconciliation; for what 
  he would have done in a flesh unlike our own 
  would have had no bearing upon human flesh, 
  and we would therefore still be in sin. 
  Bill
  
  Not so; all he had to do was 
  meet God's conditions which apparently involved passing the
  test that AE failed and he 
  did that in the wilderness... right after his baptism.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  so there is no way that 
  this would be the same concept Bill. 
  
  Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create 
  us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).
  
  Yes they did created the 
  first Adam in their

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Judy wrote:
 Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US
 in every way?  Why couldn't he have been
 like the first Adam before the fall, the one
 who was created?

If Jesus were only like the first Adam and not like the rest of us, then he 
could only redeem those born of his own loins.  In order to redeem mankind, 
including Adam and Even and all of their descendants, he would have to 
become one of us.

Judy wrote:
 Jesus was not exactly procreated like us since
 he had no human father so that must mess up
 your thesis at least a little.

Such does not bother the thesis of the humanity of Jesus one bit.  Only if 
you argue that Jesus did not inherit genetic material from Mary would it be 
a problem.  The Bible gives every indication that Jesus was related to Mary, 
related to David, related to Abraham, and related to Adam.

David Miller. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Likeness might mean like but not exactly like, but it also might mean so 
much like it as to be indistinguishable. When we say that Jesus is the 
image of Father, or that he is like the Father, so much so that when you 
have seen Jesus you have seen the Father, it might be inappropriate to say 
that Jesus is like the Father, but not exactly like him. Do you see it 
differently, Judy? David Miller.

I don't know  When He walked the earth as a 
man He was not the Father 
because He prayed to the 
Father and when He said these words to Philip ie: 
"If you have seen me you 
have seen the Father" (John 14:9) I believe He is 
referring to the ministry 
rather than toHimself personallybecause 
everything 
He said and did (both 
works and words) he had first seen the Father saying 

and doing which heexplains further in John 14:10 and John 5:19.


- Original Message - From: Judy TaylorTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Monday, January 16, 2006 11:17 AMSubject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE


Only a similitude or likeness even "in every way" is not the exact same 
thing JD.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:12:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:If you 
had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human mind, or a 
human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to disagree; for then 
he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).

Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not mean exactly the "same as" 
Every human being born by procreation into this fallen worldis also 
fallen. There is none righteous and none that does good  EXCEPT 
ONE.


Judy argues "like us" in total disregard of the additional phrase "IN 
EVERY WAY"


-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I was 
just wanting to better understand what you were wanting me to agree with in 
your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine 
thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable that we can agree. The 
word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am not completely 
satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied with doing the will 
of his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was fully intuned to the 
divine.

If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human 
mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to disagree; 
for then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).

Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not mean exactly the "same as" 
Every human being born by procreation into this fallen worldis also 
fallen. There is none righteous and none that does good  EXCEPT 
ONE.

And, while I understood what you were saying, I also hesitate to speak of 
the person of Christ in terms of "parts": if he is fully human and fully 
divine, then he is not partly one and partly the other. Anyway, I knew what 
you meant and could thus look through it.

Thanks,

Bill


- Original Message - From: Dean Moore- Original Message 
- From: Taylor

So that I know for sure what you mean to convey, let me ask you: do you as 
a human have "divine thoughts"?

Billcd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold the perspective that 
Christ is limited in His divine thinking.I realize that the flesh would 
influence one thinking to my limited 'divine 'thoughts but with Christ who 
walked according to the Spirit I see no limitations. Nor do I admit there 
has to be such weakness in us as we also have the Spirit-We simply are not 
willing to pray and fast and abstain from things as one should to weaken 
this flesh and hence allow more diviness to control us.- Original 
Message - From: Dean Moore

cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine 
thoughts.- Original Message - From: Taylor

If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ while walking 
this earth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you 
also believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO 
TOO.

Bill 

--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, 
that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him 
to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
will be subscribed.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




cd: Good point Bill.




- Original Message - 
From: Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/16/2006 2:15:05 PM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE


Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like the
first Adam before the fall, ...

Because the first Adam before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We do.

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE



On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill. 

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).

Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 
Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit. 

Thereafter all men (including us) are borninto this world by procreation in the likeness of 
the first Adam rather than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to become
conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
and His willingness to lay down His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our place.

Laying aside the fact that you are making much too much of Seth having been born in the image 
of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what would be wrong, then, with killing someone who 
was no longer created in God's image, but in Adam's), 

At the beginnign they were created in God's image and now Noah who found grace is starting
over even though it didn't take too many generations for the whole of humanity (all but 8 ppl)
to be destroyed. I don't believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of devils.

Judy, I fail to understand why that should even prevent Christ from being united in his person, 
his humanness with his divinity. 

I understand. It is mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is something God hates.

The only thing which could have severed that union was the one thing which he did not do: 
sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo that which had indeed produced schizophrenia 
in the relationship between humanity and God. 

Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like the
first Adam before the fall, the one who was created? Jesus was not exactly procreated like
us since he had no human father so that must mess up your thesis at least a little.

And were he not like us in every way, he could not have produced this reconciliation; for what 
he would have done in a flesh unlike our own would have had no bearing upon human flesh, 
and we would therefore still be in sin. Bill

Not so; all he had to do was meet God's conditions which apparently involved passing the
test that AE failed and he did that in the wilderness... right after his baptism.

From: Judy Taylor 

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill. 

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).

Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 
Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit. 

Thereafter all men (including us) are borninto this world by procreation in the likeness of 
the first Adam rather than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to become
conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
and His willingness to lay down His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our place.
.


From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:29:22 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


OK - I'm asking Bill, what husband, and what schism?

Oh, I thought you were married. The bible says that you and your husband (if you had one) were to become "one" flesh, in other words the two of you in coming together would be united -- and not just physically, I might add; it is the marriage "union" after all. The same is true with God. The bible teaches that the Lord is "one" and it uses the same word when saying this; hence there is a oneness or unity within the nature of God, a coming together of a pluralityin union.

God is a Spirit (Jn 4:24) so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill. Sure the Godhead are One and united
in Spirit.

And so, since you suggested that if Christ be fully God and fully human there must be a schism, I

[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy wrote: Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like 
USin every way? Why couldn't he have been like the first 
Adam before the fall, the one who was created?

If Jesus were only like the first Adam and not like the rest of us, then he 
could only 
redeem those born of his own loins. In order to redeem mankind, 
including Adam and 
Eve and all of their descendants, he would have to become one of us.

Why? What do loins have to do with spsiritual 
redemption and what it takes to redeem
mankind? Hissalvation unlike the covering 
of bulls and goats is eternalbecause his 
blood is the blood of the eternal Spirit. (Hebrews 9:14)

Judy wrote: Jesus was not exactly procreated 
like us sincehe had no human father so that must 
mess upyour thesis at least a 
little.

Such does not bother the thesis of the humanity of Jesus one bit. 
Only if you argue 
that Jesus did not inherit genetic material from Mary would it be a 
problem. The Bible 
gives every indication that Jesus was related to Mary, related to David, 
related to 
Abraham, and related to Adam.

Yes I understand the genealogies are important and 
relevant or they wouldn't be there...
but I see their value as more spiritual than biolgical 
ie: Ishmael was a biolgical son
but Isaac the child of Promise. I understand 
blessings and curses to come down
through families generationally in the spiritual sense 
even though there is a
biolgical dimension also.

David Miller.

Re: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




There is only one person who is the Father. Clearly, Jesus is 
describing likeness. Whether you are Trinitarian or Oneness in doctrine 
concerning the Godhead, the view is that Jesus and the Father are of the same 
substance. If memory serves me correctly, the Greek word is actually the 
same as that translated likeness. 

In other words, in the same way that we speak of the likeness of Christ to 
Father God, so also we should speak of his likeness to humanity and human 
flesh.

David Miller.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:25 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE 
  HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Likeness might mean like but not exactly like, but it also might mean so 
  much like it as to be indistinguishable. When we say that Jesus is 
  the image of Father, or that he is like the Father, so much so that when 
  you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father, it might be inappropriate to 
  say that Jesus is like the Father, but not exactly like him. Do you 
  see it differently, Judy? David Miller.
  
  I don't know  When He walked the earth as a 
  man He was not the Father 
  because He prayed to the 
  Father and when He said these words to Philip ie: 
  "If you have seen me you 
  have seen the Father" (John 14:9) I believe He is 
  referring to the ministry 
  rather than toHimself personallybecause 
  everything 
  He said and did (both 
  works and words) he had first seen the Father 
  saying 
  and doing which heexplains further in John 14:10 and John 5:19.
  
  
  - Original Message - From: Judy TaylorTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  Monday, January 16, 2006 11:17 AMSubject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  Only a similitude or likeness even "in every way" is not the exact same 
  thing JD.
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:12:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:If you 
  had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human mind, or a 
  human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to disagree; for then 
  he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 2.17).
  
  Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not mean exactly the "same 
  as" Every human being born by procreation into this fallen 
  worldis also fallen. There is none righteous and none that does good 
   EXCEPT ONE.
  
  
  Judy argues "like us" in total disregard of the additional phrase 
  "IN EVERY WAY"
  
  
  -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I was 
  just wanting to better understand what you were wanting me to agree with 
  in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine 
  thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable that we can agree. 
  The word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am not completely 
  satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied with doing the will 
  of his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was fully intuned to the 
  divine.
  
  If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human 
  mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to 
  disagree; for then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 
  2.17).
  
  Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not mean exactly the "same 
  as" Every human being born by procreation into this fallen 
  worldis also fallen. There is none righteous and none that does good 
   EXCEPT ONE.
  
  And, while I understood what you were saying, I also hesitate to speak of 
  the person of Christ in terms of "parts": if he is fully human and fully 
  divine, then he is not partly one and partly the other. Anyway, I knew 
  what you meant and could thus look through it.
  
  Thanks,
  
  Bill
  
  
  - Original Message - From: Dean Moore- Original 
  Message - From: Taylor
  
  So that I know for sure what you mean to convey, let me ask you: do you 
  as a human have "divine thoughts"?
  
  Billcd: Yes to a limited degree-but I cannot hold the perspective 
  that Christ is limited in His divine thinking.I realize that the flesh 
  would influence one thinking to my limited 'divine 'thoughts but with 
  Christ who walked according to the Spirit I see no limitations. Nor do I 
  admit there has to be such weakness in us as we also have the Spirit-We 
  simply are not willing to pray and fast and abstain from things as one 
  should to weaken this flesh and hence allow more diviness to control 
  us.- Original Message - From: Dean Moore
  
  cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine 
  thoughts.- Original Message - From: Taylor
  
  If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ while 
  walking this earth was fully God. I DO

[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE






On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:40:28 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Judy, you are completely misunderstanding 
  Bill. When he speaks of the resurrection, he means bodies which are 
  transformed. You are reading right past him and seeing something that is 
  not there, much like John does to nearly all my posts. 
  
  I am reading what he is saying 
  David - you may have some inside insight toward him that I don't 
  have.
  I read him saying the Jesus 
  the Christ was fully human (like us) which by nature is fallen in the first 
  Adam and ATST
  Fully God - which is am 
  impossible dichotomy. He then went onto say that Jesus became 
  human so that he could
  save humanity and take them to 
  heaven.
  
  The mystery of Godliness, God manifest in 
  the flesh, is something taught in Scripture. 
  
  Yes, by way of the fullness of 
  the Holy Spirit in the body God provided for Him. Can you see it any 
  other way?
  
  When you claim that the flesh of Jesus only 
  looked like our flesh but really was something very different, you are 
  deviating from the concept of "Christ was manifest in the flesh." You 
  think you are not because you still think he was flesh, but your flesh is an 
  alien flesh that you constantly say was UNLIKE our flesh when the Scriptures 
  say he was LIKE us.
  
  The ONLYdeviation in 
  what I say is my claim that Jesus was pure and holy from his birth which fact 
  makes his flesh
  different from ours since ours 
  is fallen and we are the ones with the dichotomy of the two natures as 
  described by the apostle Paul in Romans 7:8. I sayJesus the Christ 
  had no such dichotomy although he was severely 
  tested/tempted
  
  You seem to think that Bill makes Jesus too 
  much like us, but the Bible does not prohibit this viewpoint anywhere. 
  
  In fact, it argues strongly that he was like 
  us in every way. 
  
  I don't see any strong 
  arguments in scripture for His humanity to be exactly like ours - to the 
  contrary, YET WITHOUT SIN 
  says it all.
  
  You have a problem understanding how there 
  can be unity between a God living in a defective 
  body. I don't blame you, but my experience of the living Christ 
  in me helps me understand how it works. 
  
  Think about it David; Satan 
  has been building strongholds and has had familiar spirits in us and our 
  families for generations.
  As you know these do not leave 
  overnight - salvation is a walk of grace. Do you think for one moment 
  the demons would
  dare to inhabit Jesus? 
  They wouldn't go anywhere near him, they were afraid he had come to torment 
  them before the time.
  
  It is simply the Spirit filled life. 
  When the spirit reigns and the flesh is kept dead, this is how Jesus 
  lived. This is how we should live.
  
  I know He left us an example 
  that we should follow in His steps and as a body the Church ought to be doing 
  the same works
  However He lived and walked in 
  the kind of faithwe have never ever seen duplicated. The miracles, 
  walking on water, raising
  the dead. All we 
  have seen so far are a few crumbs. 
  
  I've already shared the relevant passages 
  from Hebrews that helps us with those. I hope you have not forgotten 
  them. I still think you ignore them and do not adequately address 
  them. If you would like me to post them again, just ask.
  
  I would like to see them again 
  but can't guarantee a change of heart. I would need to see them by God's 
  Word - I'm sure
  you know what I mean. I 
  get so frustrated that so much hinges on the Church Fathers. Why is 
  that?? How can they state
  emphatically that Jesus is 
  fully human and fully God and that his humanity is not divine? What kind 
  of double talk is that??
  
  David Miller.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:52 
PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOTDIVINE



On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:35:51 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  It is humanity which Christ came to save, 
  Judy. He did that by assuming human likeness.
  
  What scripture do you base the above 
  on Bill?The same one from 
  Hebrews?
  
  He was raised as well a human, Judy, and sits 
  at his Father's side: a human being. 
  
  So now you claim that a transformed 
  body without blood that is able to walk through 
  walls is in the likeness ofour human 
  bodiesBill?
  
  We will be resurrected human, as well 
  --no longer with flesh and blood tainted body's 
  but with resurrected bodies; bodies 
  all-the-more human, Judy --not un-human.
  
  Really? This is "another gospel" 
  entirely - to claim that God just loves old nastyfallen
  and mean humanity so much that He 
  can't

Re: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Judy, Jesus did not come ONLY to redeem us spiritually, but physically as 
well.  Jesus redeemed the whole man, spirit, soul, and body.  The body is 
the last thing to experience that redemption, which will be realized in the 
resurrection.

The idea that what happened to Christ will happen to us is realized 
forcefully by acknowledging that he is indeed one of us.  He is not just our 
God.  He is our brother, born of the same flesh.

Consider Romans 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall 
be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

The same analogy can be made of many things concerning Christ when we 
realize that he was a man just like us.

Consider the following passage:

Hebrews 12:3-4
(3) For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against 
himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
(4) Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

The idea that gives an instruction like this power and force is the concept 
that he was just like us.  When he resisted sin, he did not have an edge 
over us that was any different than what we have.  Therefore, even as he 
resisted sin to the shedding of his own blood, so too we can find strength 
to do the same.  We know this when we realize that he was made in the 
likeness of the same sinful flesh as we have, yet he resisted the 
temptations of that flesh and did not succomb to it.

Hebrews 2:11
(11) For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of 
one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 2:14
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he 
also himself likewise took part of the same

Hebrews 2:16-17
(16) For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him 
the seed of Abraham.
(17) Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his 
brethren

David Miller.


- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:44 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE



From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Judy wrote:
 Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way?  Why couldn't he 
 have been
 like the first Adam before the fall, the one who was created?

If Jesus were only like the first Adam and not like the rest of us, then he 
could only
redeem those born of his own loins.  In order to redeem mankind, including 
Adam and
Eve and all of their descendants, he would have to become one of us.

Why?  What do loins have to do with spsiritual redemption and what it takes 
to redeem
mankind?  His salvation unlike the covering of bulls and goats is eternal 
because his
blood is the blood of the eternal Spirit. (Hebrews 9:14)

Judy wrote:
 Jesus was not exactly procreated like us since he had no human father so 
 that must
mess up your thesis at least a little.

Such does not bother the thesis of the humanity of Jesus one bit.  Only if 
you argue
that Jesus did not inherit genetic material from Mary would it be a problem. 
The Bible
gives every indication that Jesus was related to Mary, related to David, 
related to
Abraham, and related to Adam.

Yes I understand the genealogies are important and relevant or they wouldn't 
be there...
but I see their value as more spiritual than biolgical ie: Ishmael was a 
biolgical son
but Isaac the child of Promise.  I understand blessings and curses to come 
down
through families generationally in the spiritual sense even though there is 
a
biolgical dimension also.

David Miller. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




The first Adam after the fall did 
indeed need savingfrom the wrath of God Bill
and so do we. Our "humanity" is under a curse 
along with the rest of creation Bill
Which is spelled out in scripture. Jesus went to 
the cross in order to institute a
"New Creation" and this is why he is called the Second 
Adam. The first Adam
is earthy or of the earthy (as we are). The 
Second Adam is the Lord from heaven.

Your gospel is inverted Bill. It is not Jesus who 
takes on our likeness although he
passed in all the areas where the first Adam failed; 
and was without sin where we
are for the most part loaded down with it. Read 1 
Cor 15:42-52. Sounds to me
like the second Adam is the Lord from heaven. I 
don't see anything earthy about
him. Temptation or no temptation.




From: Taylor 

  


Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be 
like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like the
first Adam before the fall, 
...

Because the first Adam 
before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We do.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  

so there is no way that this 
would be the same concept Bill. 

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us 
in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).

Yes they did created the 
first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which "likeness" 

Adam forfeited when 
he chose to go with Eve 
into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit. 

Thereafter all men (including 
us) are borninto this world by procreation in the likeness of 
the first Adam rather than 
the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to 
regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to 
become
conformed to the image of the 
second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
and His willingness to lay 
down His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our 
place.

Laying aside the fact that you are making 
much too much of Seth having been born in the image 
of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what 
would be wrong, then, with killing someone who 
was no longer created in God's 
image, but in Adam's), 

At the beginnign they were 
created in God's image and now Noah who found grace is 
starting
over even though it didn't 
take too many generations for the whole of humanity (all but 8 
ppl)
to be destroyed. I 
don't believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of 
devils.

Judy, I fail to understand why that should 
even prevent Christ from being united in his person, 
his humanness with his divinity. 


I understand. It is 
mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is something God 
hates.

The only thing which could have severed 
that union was the one thing which he did not do: 
sin. Hence in his person, he was able to 
undo that which had indeed produced schizophrenia 
in the relationship between humanity and 
God. 

Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to 
be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like 
the
first Adam before the fall, 
the one who was created? Jesus was not exactly procreated 
like
us since he had no human 
father so that must mess up your thesis at least a little.

And were he not like us in every way, he 
could not have produced this reconciliation; for what 

he would have done in a flesh unlike our 
own would have had no bearing upon human flesh, 
and we would therefore still be in 
sin. Bill

Not so; all he had to do was 
meet God's conditions which apparently involved passing the
test that AE failed and 
he did that in the wilderness... right after his baptism.

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
so there is no way that 
this would be the same concept Bill. 

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not 
create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).

Yes they did created the 
first

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




I don't see anything 
earthy about him. Temptation or no 
temptation.

Well, Judy, then you are still in your sins and you 
do not have a Savior.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:22 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  The first Adam after the fall did 
  indeed need savingfrom the wrath of God Bill
  and so do we. Our "humanity" is under a curse 
  along with the rest of creation Bill
  Which is spelled out in scripture. Jesus went 
  to the cross in order to institute a
  "New Creation" and this is why he is called the 
  Second Adam. The first Adam
  is earthy or of the earthy (as we are). The 
  Second Adam is the Lord from heaven.
  
  Your gospel is inverted Bill. It is not Jesus 
  who takes on our likeness although he
  passed in all the areas where the first Adam failed; 
  and was without sin where we
  are for the most part loaded down with it. Read 
  1 Cor 15:42-52. Sounds to me
  like the second Adam is the Lord from heaven. I 
  don't see anything earthy about
  him. Temptation or no temptation.
  
  
  
  
  From: Taylor 
  

  
  
  Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to 
  be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like 
  the
  first Adam before the fall, 
  ...
  
  Because the first Adam 
  before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We do.
  
  Bill
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 
11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love 
and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE



On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  so there is no way that 
  this would be the same concept Bill. 
  
  Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create 
  us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).
  
  Yes they did created the 
  first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which 
  "likeness" 
  Adam forfeited when 
  he chose to go with Eve 
  into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit. 
  
  Thereafter all men 
  (including us) are borninto this world by procreation in the likeness of 
  
  the first Adam rather than 
  the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)
  
  The only possible way to 
  regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to 
  become
  conformed to the image of 
  the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 
  and His willingness to lay 
  down His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our 
  place.
  
  Laying aside the fact that you are making 
  much too much of Seth having been born in the image 
  of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me 
  what would be wrong, then, with killing someone who 
  was no longer created in God's 
  image, but in Adam's), 
  
  At the beginnign they were 
  created in God's image and now Noah who found grace is 
  starting
  over even though it didn't 
  take too many generations for the whole of humanity (all but 8 
  ppl)
  to be destroyed. I 
  don't believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of 
  devils.
  
  Judy, I fail to understand why that 
  should even prevent Christ from being united in his person, 
  
  his humanness with his divinity. 
  
  
  I understand. It is 
  mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is something God 
  hates.
  
  The only thing which could have severed 
  that union was the one thing which he did not do: 
  sin. Hence in his person, he was able to 
  undo that which had indeed produced schizophrenia 
  in the relationship between humanity and 
  God. 
  
  Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD 
  to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like 
  the
  first Adam before the fall, 
  the one who was created? Jesus was not exactly procreated 
  like
  us since he had no human 
  father so that must mess up your thesis at least a 
little.
  
  And were he not like us in every way, he 
  could not have produced this reconciliation; for what 
  
  he would have done in a flesh unlike our 
  own would have had no bearing upon human

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




Oh yes, I have one but apparently He is not the same 
one that you haveBill
Mine is the Lord, a son of man who descendedfrom 
heaven to inhabit a body
prepared for him.

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:41:39 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I don't see anything 
  earthy about him. Temptation or no 
  temptation.
  
  Well, Judy, then you are still in your sins and 
  you do not have a Savior. Bill
  
From: Judy Taylor 

The first Adam after the fall did 
indeed need savingfrom the wrath of God Bill
and so do we. Our "humanity" is under a curse 
along with the rest of creation Bill
Which is spelled out in scripture. Jesus went 
to the cross in order to institute a
"New Creation" and this is why he is called the 
Second Adam. The first Adam
is earthy or of the earthy (as we are). The 
Second Adam is the Lord from heaven.

Your gospel is inverted Bill. It is not Jesus 
who takes on our likeness although he
passed in all the areas where the first Adam 
failed; and was without sin where we
are for the most part loaded down with it. 
Read 1 Cor 15:42-52. Sounds to me
like the second Adam is the Lord from heaven. 
I don't see anything earthy about
him. Temptation or no 
temptation.




From: Taylor 

  


Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to 
be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like 
the
first Adam before the fall, 
...

Because the first Adam 
before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We 
do.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 
  11:50 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love 
  and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

so there is no way that 
this would be the same concept Bill. 

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not 
create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 1.26).

Yes they did created the 
first Adam in their nature and character spiritually - which 
"likeness" 
Adam forfeited when 
he chose to go with Eve 
into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit. 

Thereafter all men 
(including us) are borninto this world by procreation in the likeness of 

the first Adam rather 
than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to 
regainthe image of God lost by the first Adam is to 
become
conformed to the image of 
the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His coming 

and His willingness to 
lay down His human lifeas a perfect sacrifice in our 
place.

Laying aside the fact that you are 
making much too much of Seth having been born in the image 

of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me 
what would be wrong, then, with killing someone who 
was no longer created in God's 
image, but in Adam's), 

At the beginnign they 
were created in God's image and now Noah who found grace is 
starting
over even though it 
didn't take too many generations for the whole of humanity (all but 
8 ppl)
to be destroyed. I 
don't believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of 
devils.

Judy, I fail to understand why that 
should even prevent Christ from being united in his person, 

his humanness with his divinity. 


I understand. It is 
mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is something God 
hates.

The only thing which could have severed 
that union was the one thing which he did not do: 
sin. Hence in his person, he was able 
to undo that which had indeed produced schizophrenia 

in the relationship between humanity 
and God. 

Tell me why he (Jesus) 
HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have been like 
the
first Adam before the 
fall, the one who was created? Jesus was not exactly 
procreated like
us since he had no human

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Nobody is denying tht Jesus is the second Adam from heaven.  Saying that he 
became flesh and was made in the likeness of men does not deny his divine 
origin.

Judy wrote:
  Your gospel is inverted ...
 It is not Jesus who takes on
 our likeness

Your statement here contradicts Scripture.

Hebrews 2:17
(17) Wherefore in ALL THINGS it behoved him to be made like unto his 
brethren ...

Romans 8:3
(3) ... God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for 
sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Philippians 2:7-8
(7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a 
servant, and was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN:
(8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became 
obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE


The first Adam after the fall did indeed need saving from the wrath of God 
Bill
and so do we.  Our humanity is under a curse along with the rest of 
creation Bill
Which is spelled out in scripture.  Jesus went to the cross in order to 
institute a
New Creation and this is why he is called the Second Adam.  The first Adam
is earthy or of the earthy (as we are).  The Second Adam is the Lord from 
heaven.

Your gospel is inverted Bill.  It is not Jesus who takes on our likeness 
although he
passed in all the areas where the first Adam failed; and was without sin 
where we
are for the most part loaded down with it.  Read 1 Cor 15:42-52.  Sounds to 
me
like the second Adam is the Lord from heaven.  I don't see anything earthy 
about
him.  Temptation or no temptation.



From: Taylor

Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way?  Why couldn't he have 
been like the
first Adam before the fall, ...

Because the first Adam before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We do.

Bill
- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE




On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.

Why is that, Judy? Did they not create us in their likeness? (cf. Gen 
1.26).

Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and character 
spiritually - which likeness
Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the 
wrong fruit.

Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this world by procreation in 
the likeness of
the first Adam rather than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is 
to become
conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His 
coming
and His willingness to lay down His human life as a perfect sacrifice in our 
place.

Laying aside the fact that you are making much too much of Seth having been 
born in the image
of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what would be wrong, then, with 
killing someone who
was no longer created in God's image, but in Adam's),

At the beginnign they were created in God's image and now Noah who found 
grace is starting
over even though it didn't take too many generations for the whole of 
humanity (all but 8 ppl)
to be destroyed.  I don't believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a 
bunch of devils.

Judy, I fail to understand why that should even prevent Christ from being 
united in his person,
his humanness with his divinity.

I understand.  It is mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is 
something God hates.

The only thing which could have severed that union was the one thing which 
he did not do:
sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo that which had indeed produced 
schizophrenia
in the relationship between humanity and God.

Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way?  Why couldn't he have 
been like the
first Adam before the fall, the one who was created?  Jesus was not exactly 
procreated like
us since he had no human father so that must mess up your thesis at least a 
little.

And were he not like us in every way, he could not have produced this 
reconciliation; for what
he would have done in a flesh unlike our own would have had no bearing upon 
human flesh,
and we would therefore still be in sin.  Bill

Not so; all he had to do was meet God's conditions which apparently involved 
passing the
test that AE failed and he did that in the wilderness... right after his 
baptism.
From: Judy Taylor

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.

Why is that, Judy? Did they not create us in their likeness? (cf. Gen 
1.26).

Yes they did created the first Adam in their

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Judy wrote:
 I don't see anything earthy about him.
 Temptation or no temptation.

Bill wrote:
 ... then you are still in your sins and you
 do not have a Savior.

I would have to disagree with you here, Bill.  Such would make salvation 
dependent upon her intellectual understanding.

It seems to me that Judy knows her Savior.  She just does not understand the 
aspects of humanity about him that we are now discussing.  Nevertheless, she 
has placed faith in him, despite this, and she knows him well enough through 
the Spirit to have experienced the forgiveness of sins and life everlasting.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE


I don't see anything earthy about him.  Temptation or no temptation.

Well, Judy, then you are still in your sins and you do not have a Savior.

Bill
- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE


The first Adam after the fall did indeed need saving from the wrath of God 
Bill
and so do we.  Our humanity is under a curse along with the rest of 
creation Bill
Which is spelled out in scripture.  Jesus went to the cross in order to 
institute a
New Creation and this is why he is called the Second Adam.  The first Adam
is earthy or of the earthy (as we are).  The Second Adam is the Lord from 
heaven.

Your gospel is inverted Bill.  It is not Jesus who takes on our likeness 
although he
passed in all the areas where the first Adam failed; and was without sin 
where we
are for the most part loaded down with it.  Read 1 Cor 15:42-52.  Sounds to 
me
like the second Adam is the Lord from heaven.  I don't see anything earthy 
about
him.  Temptation or no temptation.



From: Taylor

Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way?  Why couldn't he have 
been like the
first Adam before the fall, ...

Because the first Adam before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We do.

Bill
- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE




On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
so there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.

Why is that, Judy? Did they not create us in their likeness? (cf. Gen 
1.26).

Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and character 
spiritually - which likeness
Adam forfeited when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the 
wrong fruit.

Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this world by procreation in 
the likeness of
the first Adam rather than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)

The only possible way to regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is 
to become
conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His 
coming
and His willingness to lay down His human life as a perfect sacrifice in our 
place.

Laying aside the fact that you are making much too much of Seth having been 
born in the image
of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what would be wrong, then, with 
killing someone who
was no longer created in God's image, but in Adam's),

At the beginnign they were created in God's image and now Noah who found 
grace is starting
over even though it didn't take too many generations for the whole of 
humanity (all but 8 ppl)
to be destroyed.  I don't believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a 
bunch of devils.

Judy, I fail to understand why that should even prevent Christ from being 
united in his person,
his humanness with his divinity.

I understand.  It is mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is 
something God hates.

The only thing which could have severed that union was the one thing which 
he did not do:
sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo that which had indeed produced 
schizophrenia
in the relationship between humanity and God.

Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way?  Why couldn't he have 
been like the
first Adam before the fall, the one who was created?  Jesus was not exactly 
procreated like
us since he had no human father so that must mess up your thesis at least a 
little.

And were he not like us in every way, he could not have produced this 
reconciliation; for what
he would have done in a flesh unlike our own would have had no bearing upon 
human flesh,
and we would therefore still be in sin.  Bill

Not so; all he had to do was meet God's conditions which apparently involved 
passing the
test that AE failed and he did that in the wilderness... right after his 
baptism.
From: Judy Taylor

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:57:12 -0700 Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
so there

[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE





Thanks David,
Just a few notations...
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy, Jesus did 
not come ONLY to redeem us spiritually, but physically as well. Jesus 
redeemed the whole man, spirit, soul, and body. The body is the last 
thing to experience that redemption, which will be realized in the 
resurrection.

He came to make ALL things new - not to leave us as he 
found us ie:
2 Cor 5:17

The idea that what happened to Christ will happen to us is realized 
forcefully by acknowledging that he is indeed one of us. He is not 
just our God. He is our brother, born of the same flesh.

He called himself the Lord from Heaven and John the 
Baptist called him
that also saying "He who comes from above is above all" 
(John 3:31) for
God gives Him the Spirit without measure 
V.34

Consider Romans 6:5"For if we have been planted together in the 
likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his 
resurrection." The same analogy can be made 
of many things concerning Christ when we realize that he was a man just 
like us.

David, I struggled with this early on - that is, the 
idea that Jesus was just like us.
Today Rom 6:5 is saying to 
me that we must die to this old sinful flesh nature to
be planted in the likeness of his death and be eligible 
to be part ofHis
resurrection.

Consider the following passage:

Hebrews 12:3-4(3) For consider him that endured such contradiction of 
sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.(4) 
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

The idea that gives an instruction like this power and force is the concept 
that he was just like us. When he resisted sin, he did not have an 
edge over us that was any different than what we have. 

What was the sin he resisted to the shedding of 
blood? Laying his physical
life down voluntarily to take on the sin of the whole 
world at the cross. I've
never had to make a choice like that one so far. 
Have you?

Therefore, even as he resisted sin to the shedding of his own blood, so too 

we can find strength to do the same. We know this when we realize 
that he 
was made in the likeness of the same sinful flesh as we have, yet he 
resisted 
the temptations of that flesh and did not succomb to it.

I have never taken comfort in that David. The comfort I 
receive comes from
the fact that when God 
raised him from the dead he led captivity captive and 
gave gifts to men. I 
have access to and faith in the same Word he used against 
the adversary in the wilderness and I know who was victorious at Calvary. 
The
way I understand it the 
flesh profits-his or ours. He prevailed by the 
Spirit.

Hebrews 2:11(11) For both he that sanctifieth and they who are 
sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them 
brethren,

Those who are "sanctified" post Calvary?

Hebrews 2:14(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh 
and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same

Hebrews 2:16-17(16) For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; 
but he took on him the seed of Abraham.(17) Wherefore in all things it 
behoved him to be made like unto his brethren

David Miller.


From: Judy TaylorTo: truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Monday, January 16, 2006 3:44 PMSubject: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE 
HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE



From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy 
wrote: Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why 
couldn't he  have been like the first Adam before the fall, the 
one who was created?

If Jesus were only like the first Adam and not like the rest of us, then he 
could onlyredeem those born of his own loins. In order to redeem 
mankind, including Adam andEve and all of their descendants, he would 
have to become one of us.

Why? What do loins have to do with spsiritual redemption and what it 
takes to redeemmankind? His salvation unlike the covering of bulls 
and goats is eternal because hisblood is the blood of the eternal 
Spirit. (Hebrews 9:14)

Judy wrote: Jesus was not exactly procreated like us since he had 
no human father so  that mustmess up your thesis at least a 
little.

Such does not bother the thesis of the humanity of Jesus one bit. 
Only if you arguethat Jesus did not inherit genetic material from Mary 
would it be a problem. The Biblegives every indication that Jesus was 
related to Mary, related to David, related toAbraham, and related to 
Adam.

Yes I understand the genealogies are important and relevant or they 
wouldn't be there...but I see their value as more spiritual than 
biolgical ie: Ishmael was a biolgical sonbut Isaac the child of 
Promise. I understand blessings and curses to come downthrough 
families generationally in the spiritual sense even though there is 
abiolgical dimension also.

David Miller. 

--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, 
that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not

[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE





All of the scriptures below say "LIKENESS" David. 
I don't have any problem with that.
What I have a problem with is going on to make 
"likeness equal to same as" Jesus
could not have been exactly the same as us because we 
are all born into an Eph 2
reality andHe was not. John the Baptist, 
the greatest of the OT prophets didn't
think he was just like him at all, in fact John didn't 
think himself worthy to fasten the
latchet on his sandal and said:

"He that cometh from above is above all; he that 
is of the earth is earthy and speaketh 
of the earth; he that cometh from heaven is above all. 
V.34 For he whom God hath sent 
speaketh the words of God, for God giveth not the 
spirit to Him by measure unto Him. 
The Father loves the Son and hath given all things into 
his hand." (John 3:31,34)

We are to take on (be conformed to) His likeness and 
one must be born again to
even be able to see or comprehend the Kingdom of Heaven 
which he came to
introduce to mankind.
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nobody is denying tht Jesus is the second Adam from heaven. Saying 
that he became flesh and was made in the likeness of men does not deny his 
divine origin.

Judy wrote: Your gospel is inverted ... It is not 
Jesus who takes on our likeness

Your statement here contradicts Scripture.

Hebrews 2:17(17) Wherefore in ALL THINGS it behoved him to be made like 
unto his brethren ...

Romans 8:3(3) ... God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful 
flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Philippians 2:7-8(7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon 
him the form of a servant, and was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN:(8) And 
being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient 
unto death, even the death of the cross.

David Miller


- Original Message - From: Judy TaylorTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Monday, January 16, 2006 4:22 PMSubject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE


The first Adam after the fall did indeed need saving from the wrath of God 
Billand so do we. Our "humanity" is under a curse along with the 
rest of creation BillWhich is spelled out in scripture. Jesus went 
to the cross in order to institute a"New Creation" and this is why he is 
called the Second Adam. The first Adamis earthy or of the earthy (as 
we are). The Second Adam is the Lord from heaven.

Your gospel is inverted Bill. It is not Jesus who takes on our 
likeness although hepassed in all the areas where the first Adam failed; 
and was without sin where weare for the most part loaded down with 
it. Read 1 Cor 15:42-52. Sounds to melike the second Adam is 
the Lord from heaven. I don't see anything earthy abouthim. 
Temptation or no temptation.



From: Taylor

Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't 
he have been like thefirst Adam before the fall, ...

Because the first Adam before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We 
do.

Bill- Original Message - From: Judy TaylorTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 AMSubject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:so 
there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.

Why is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen 
1.26).

Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and character 
spiritually - which "likeness"Adam forfeited when he chose to go with 
Eve into disobedience by eating the wrong fruit.

Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this world by procreation 
in the likeness ofthe first Adam rather than the likeness of God (Gen 
5:3)

The only possible way to regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is 
to becomeconformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole 
purpose for His comingand His willingness to lay down His human life as 
a perfect sacrifice in our place.

Laying aside the fact that you are making much too much of Seth having been 
born in the imageof Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what would be 
wrong, then, with killing someone whowas no longer created in God's 
image, but in Adam's),

At the beginnign they were created in God's image and now Noah who found 
grace is startingover even though it didn't take too many generations 
for the whole of humanity (all but 8 ppl)to be destroyed. I don't 
believe God is interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of devils.

Judy, I fail to understand why that should even prevent Christ from being 
united in his person,his humanness with his divinity.

I understand. It is mixture; joining the holy with the profane which 
is something God hates.

The only thing which could have severed that union was the one thing which 
he did not do:sin. Hence in his person, he was able to undo that which 
had indeed produced schizophreniain

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




David,

I am not saying that the Jesus I believe in -- that is, the 
Jesus of Scripture --cannot save her, or that she is not saved 
bythat same Jesus. I am saying that the Jesus she describes cannot save 
her, as he is impotent to save her or anyone else, and if it were true what she 
says about the hybrid she believes in, we are all doomed.

And so my apologies for not being more specific. I can see 
where you misunderstood me.

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF 
CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
 Judy wrote: 
 I don't see anything earthy about him.  Temptation or 
no temptation.  Bill wrote:  ... then you are still 
in your sins and you  do not have a Savior.  I would 
have to disagree with you here, Bill. Such would make salvation  
dependent upon her intellectual understanding.  It seems to me 
that Judy knows her Savior. She just does not understand the  
aspects of humanity about him that we are now discussing. Nevertheless, 
she  has placed faith in him, despite this, and she knows him well 
enough through  the Spirit to have experienced the forgiveness of sins 
and life everlasting.  David Miller.  - 
Original Message -  From: Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, 
January 16, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity 
THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT  DIVINE   I don't 
see anything earthy about him. Temptation or no temptation. 
 Well, Judy, then you are still in your sins and you do not have a 
Savior.  Bill - Original Message -  
From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, 
January 16, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity 
THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT  DIVINE   The 
first Adam after the fall did indeed need saving from the wrath of God  
Bill and so do we. Our "humanity" is under a curse along with the 
rest of  creation Bill Which is spelled out in scripture. 
Jesus went to the cross in order to  institute a "New Creation" 
and this is why he is called the Second Adam. The first Adam is 
earthy or of the earthy (as we are). The Second Adam is the Lord from 
 heaven.  Your gospel is inverted Bill. It is not 
Jesus who takes on our likeness  although he passed in all the 
areas where the first Adam failed; and was without sin  where we 
are for the most part loaded down with it. Read 1 Cor 15:42-52. 
Sounds to  me like the second Adam is the Lord from 
heaven. I don't see anything earthy  about him. 
Temptation or no temptation.From: 
Taylor  Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every 
way? Why couldn't he have  been like the first Adam before 
the fall, ...  Because the first Adam before the fall did not 
need to be saved Judy. We do.  Bill - Original 
Message -  From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, 
January 16, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity 
THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT  DIVINE
 On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so there 
is no way that this would be the same concept Bill.  Why is 
that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen  
1.26).  Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature and 
character  spiritually - which "likeness" Adam forfeited when he 
chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the  wrong 
fruit.  Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this 
world by procreation in  the likeness of the first Adam rather 
than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3)  The only possible way to 
regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is  to become 
conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His 
 coming and His willingness to lay down His human life as a 
perfect sacrifice in our  place.  Laying aside the fact 
that you are making much too much of Seth having been  born in the 
image of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what would be wrong, then, 
with  killing someone who was no longer created in God's image, 
but in Adam's),  At the beginnign they were created in God's 
image and now Noah who found  grace is starting over even though 
it didn't take too many generations for the whole of  humanity (all but 
8 ppl) to be destroyed. I don't believe God is interested in 
fellowshipping with a  bunch of devils.  Judy, I fail to 
understand why that should even prevent Christ from being  united in his 
person, his humanness with his divinity.  I 
understand. It is mixture; joining the holy with the profane which is 
 something God hates.  The only thing which could have 
severed that union was the one thing which  he did not do: sin. 
Hence in his person, he was able to undo that which had indeed produced  
schizophrenia in the relationship between humanity and God. 
 Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like

[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Which part of the Jesus I believe in is
not according to scripture Bill?
What makes Him impotent in your opinion?

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:36:13 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

David,

I am not saying that the Jesus I believe in -- that is, the
Jesus of Scripture --cannot save her,
or that she is not saved bythat same Jesus. I am saying that the Jesus she describes cannot save her,

as he is impotent to save her or anyone
else, and if it were true what she says about the hybrid she believes
in,
we are all doomed.

And so my apologies for not being more specific. I can see
where you misunderstood me.

Bill

- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY
OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
Judy wrote:
I don't see anything earthy about him. Temptation or
no temptation. Bill wrote: ... then you are
still in your sins and you do not have a Savior.
I would have to disagree with you here, Bill. Such would make salvation
dependent upon her intellectual understanding. It
seems to me that Judy knows her Savior. She just does not understand the
aspects of humanity about him that we are now discussing.
Nevertheless, she has placed faith in him, despite this, and she
knows him well enough through the Spirit to have experienced the
forgiveness of sins and life everlasting. David
Miller. - Original Message - From:
Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent:
Monday, January 16, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
I don't see anything earthy about him. Temptation or no
temptation. Well, Judy, then you are still in your sins and
you do not have a Savior. Bill - Original Message
- From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent:
Monday, January 16, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
The first Adam after the fall did indeed need saving from the wrath
of God Bill and so do we. Our "humanity" is under a
curse along with the rest of creation Bill Which is spelled
out in scripture. Jesus went to the cross in order to institute
a "New Creation" and this is why he is called the Second Adam.
The first Adam is earthy or of the earthy (as we are). The
Second Adam is the Lord from heaven. Your gospel is
inverted Bill. It is not Jesus who takes on our likeness
although he passed in all the areas where the first Adam failed; and
was without sin where we are for the most part loaded down
with it. Read 1 Cor 15:42-52. Sounds to me like
the second Adam is the Lord from heaven. I don't see anything earthy
about him. Temptation or no temptation.
From: Taylor Tell me why he
(Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he have
been like the first Adam before the fall, ... Because
the first Adam before the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We do.
Bill - Original Message - From: Judy
Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent:
Monday, January 16, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love
and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so
there is no way that this would be the same concept Bill. Why
is that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen
1.26). Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature
and character spiritually - which "likeness" Adam forfeited
when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the wrong
fruit. Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this
world by procreation in the likeness of the first Adam rather
than the likeness of God (Gen 5:3) The only possible way to
regain the image of God lost by the first Adam is to become
conformed to the image of the second Adam which is the sole purpose for His
coming and His willingness to lay down His human life as a
perfect sacrifice in our place. Laying aside the
fact that you are making much too much of Seth having been born in
the image of Adam (see Gen 9.6 and answer for me what would be wrong,
then, with killing someone who was no longer created in God's
image, but in Adam's), At the beginnign they were created in
God's image and now Noah who found grace is starting over
even though it didn't take too many generations for the whole of
humanity (all but 8 ppl) to be destroyed. I don't believe God is
interested in fellowshipping with a bunch of devils.
Judy, I fail to understand why that should even prevent Christ from being
united in his person, his humanness with his

Re: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE





Which part of the Jesus I believe in 
is not according to scripture Bill?

All of him.

What makes Him impotent in your 
opinion?

He is neither God nor 
man, but something less than the former* and greater than the latter**; hence he 
is unrelated to both and therefore irrelevant, just an idol you 
worship.


* Lance wrote, "Jesus is God," to which Judy responded, "How 
can the Father be greater than God Himself?" (Monday, January 02, 
2006)

** "How can [the Church fathers] state emphatically that Jesus 
is fully human ... and that his humanity is not divine?"(Monday, January 
16, 2006)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:37 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE 
  HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  Which part of the Jesus I believe in is 
  not according to scripture Bill?
  What makes Him impotent in your opinion?
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:36:13 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
David,

I am not saying that the Jesus I believe in -- that is, 
the Jesus of Scripture --cannot save her, 
or that she is not saved bythat same Jesus. I am saying that the Jesus she describes cannot save her, 

as he is impotent to save her or 
anyone else, and if it were true what she says about the hybrid she 
believes in, 
we are all doomed.

And so my apologies for not being more specific. I can see 
where you misunderstood me.

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY 
OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
 Judy wrote: 
 I don't see anything earthy about him.  Temptation 
or no temptation.  Bill wrote:  ... then you are 
still in your sins and you  do not have a Savior. 
 I would have to disagree with you here, Bill. Such would make 
salvation  dependent upon her intellectual understanding. 
 It seems to me that Judy knows her Savior. She just does not 
understand the  aspects of humanity about him that we are now 
discussing. Nevertheless, she  has placed faith in him, 
despite this, and she knows him well enough through  the Spirit to 
have experienced the forgiveness of sins and life everlasting. 
 David Miller.  - Original Message - 
 From: Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, 
January 16, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT  DIVINE  
 I don't see anything earthy about him. Temptation or no 
temptation.  Well, Judy, then you are still in your sins and 
you do not have a Savior.  Bill - Original 
Message -  From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, 
January 16, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT  DIVINE  
 The first Adam after the fall did indeed need saving from the wrath 
of God  Bill and so do we. Our "humanity" is under a 
curse along with the rest of  creation Bill Which is spelled 
out in scripture. Jesus went to the cross in order to  
institute a "New Creation" and this is why he is called the Second 
Adam. The first Adam is earthy or of the earthy (as we 
are). The Second Adam is the Lord from  heaven. 
 Your gospel is inverted Bill. It is not Jesus who takes on 
our likeness  although he passed in all the areas where the 
first Adam failed; and was without sin  where we are for the 
most part loaded down with it. Read 1 Cor 15:42-52. Sounds to 
 me like the second Adam is the Lord from heaven. I 
don't see anything earthy  about him. Temptation or no 
temptation.From: Taylor  
Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in every way? Why couldn't he 
have  been like the first Adam before the fall, ... 
 Because the first Adam before the fall did not need to be saved 
Judy. We do.  Bill - Original Message - 
 From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, 
January 16, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT  DIVINE  
   On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0700 "Taylor" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so there is 
no way that this would be the same concept Bill.  Why is 
that, Judy? Did "they" not create us in "their" likeness? (cf. Gen  
1.26).  Yes they did created the first Adam in their nature 
and character  spiritually - which "likeness" Adam forfeited 
when he chose to go with Eve into disobedience by eating the  wrong 
fruit.  Thereafter all men (including us) are born into this 
world by procreation in  the likeness

Re: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE






On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:21:07 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  Which part of the Jesus I believe 
  in is not according to scripture Bill?
  
  All of him.
  
  Well the aboveis a detailedand coherent 
  response - is this the best you can do?
  
  What makes Him impotent in 
  your opinion?
  
  He is neither God 
  nor man, but something less than the former* and greater than the latter**; 
  
  hence he is 
  unrelated to both and therefore irrelevant, just an idol you 
  worship.
  
  IOW You don't understand Him so he must either 
  conform to the Church Fathers and
  "orthodoxy" or He is an idol? 
  Whata good student you have been 
  Bill.
  
  * Lance wrote, "Jesus is God," to which 
  Judy responded, "How can the Father be greater than 
  God Himself?" (Monday, January 02, 2006)
  
  My response relates to Jesus' own words which are 
  "The Father is greater than Me" (John 14:28)
  So my question still stands. Unanswered I might 
  add. I don't just make up this stuff you know.
  
  ** "How can [the Church fathers] state emphatically that 
  Jesus is fully human ... 
  and that his humanity is not divine?"(Monday, January 
  16, 2006)
  
  He has got to be one or the other Bill - or it is 
  YOUR JESUS who is a hybrid and not mine regardless of
  what the Church Fathers came up with. They were 
  not God - there is a higher authority you know.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

Which part of the Jesus I believe in is 
not according to scripture Bill?
What makes Him impotent in your 
opinion?

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:36:13 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  David,
  
  I am not saying that the Jesus I believe in -- that is, 
  the Jesus of Scripture --cannot save her, 
  or that she is not saved bythat same Jesus. I am saying that the Jesus she describes cannot save her, 
  
  as he is impotent to save her or 
  anyone else, and if it were true what she says about the hybrid she 
  believes in, 
  we are all doomed.
  
  And so my apologies for not being more specific. I can 
  see where you misunderstood me.
  
  Bill
  
  - Original Message - 
  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:00 PM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE 
  HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
   Judy wrote: 
   I don't see anything earthy about him.  
  Temptation or no temptation.  Bill wrote:  ... 
  then you are still in your sins and you  do not have a 
  Savior.  I would have to disagree with you here, 
  Bill. Such would make salvation  dependent upon her 
  intellectual understanding.  It seems to me that Judy 
  knows her Savior. She just does not understand the  aspects 
  of humanity about him that we are now discussing. Nevertheless, she 
   has placed faith in him, despite this, and she knows him well 
  enough through  the Spirit to have experienced the forgiveness of 
  sins and life everlasting.  David Miller.  
  - Original Message -  From: Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, 
  January 16, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT  DIVINE  
   I don't see anything earthy about him. Temptation or no 
  temptation.  Well, Judy, then you are still in your sins 
  and you do not have a Savior.  Bill - Original 
  Message -  From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, 
  January 16, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT  DIVINE  
   The first Adam after the fall did indeed need saving from the 
  wrath of God  Bill and so do we. Our "humanity" is 
  under a curse along with the rest of  creation Bill Which 
  is spelled out in scripture. Jesus went to the cross in order to 
   institute a "New Creation" and this is why he is called 
  the Second Adam. The first Adam is earthy or of the earthy 
  (as we are). The Second Adam is the Lord from  
  heaven.  Your gospel is inverted Bill. It is not 
  Jesus who takes on our likeness  although he passed in all 
  the areas where the first Adam failed; and was without sin  where 
  we are for the most part loaded down with it. Read 1 Cor 
  15:42-52. Sounds to  me like the second Adam is the 
  Lord from heaven. I don't see anything earthy  about 
  him. Temptation or no temptation.
  From: Taylor  Tell me why he (Jesus) HAD to be like US in 
  every way? Why couldn't he have  been like the first 
  Adam before the fall, ...  Because the first Adam before 
  the fall did not need to be saved Judy. We do.  
  Bill - Original Message -  From: Judy 
  Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Re: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE





Excellent points Dean
And you are not trying to cut Him up into different 
exclusive pieces - Hallelujah to King Jesus!!

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:11:54 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  
  cd: Can that likeness to human flesh also be a reflection of Christ's 
  mental capacity?
  Did that capacity have the likeness to man or was there more? John 
  the Baptist was said to be greatest among men-yet Christ was greater-How can 
  both be true David if He was only a man? Could Christ be greater than 
  the greatest man and only be a common man? The least in heaven is 
  greater than John-yet there is none greater than Christ in heaven-if so they 
  would have been able to open the book described in Rev.-none could. Yes, 
  He was sent in the likeness of man and more-much more.What man can retain the 
  memory of sharing glory with God from creation?
  
  

In other words, in the same way that we speak of the likeness of Christ 
to Father God, so also we should speak of his likeness to humanity and human 
flesh.

David Miller.

cd: Can that likeness to human flesh also be a reflection of Christ's 
mental capacity?Did that capacity have the likeness to man or was there 
more?John the Baptist was said to be greatest among men-yet Christ was 
greater-How can both be true David if He was only a man? Could Christ be 
greater than the greatest man and only be a common man?The least in heaven 
is greater than John-yet there is none greater than Christ in heaven-if so 
they would have been able to open the book described in Rev.-none could. 
Yes, He was sent in the likeness of man and more-much more.What man can 
retain the memory of sharing glory with God from creation?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:25 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] love and trinity 
  THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Likeness might mean like but not exactly like, but it also might mean 
  so much like it as to be indistinguishable. When we say that 
  Jesus is the image of Father, or that he is like the Father, so much 
  so that when you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father, it might be 
  inappropriate to say that Jesus is like the Father, but not exactly 
  like him. Do you see it differently, Judy? David 
  Miller.
  
  I don't know  When He walked the earth 
  as a man He was not the Father 
  because He prayed to 
  the Father and when He said these words to Philip ie: 
  "If you have seen me 
  you have seen the Father" (John 14:9) I believe He is 
  referring to the ministry rather than toHimself personallybecause everything 
  He said and did (both 
  works and words) he had first seen the Father 
  saying 
  and doing which heexplains further in John 14:10 and John 5:19.
  
  
  - Original Message - From: Judy TaylorTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  Monday, January 16, 2006 11:17 AMSubject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  Only a similitude or likeness even "in every way" is not the exact 
  same thing JD.
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:12:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:If 
  you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a human mind, 
  or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had to disagree; 
  for then he would not have been like us in every way (cf. Heb 
  2.17).
  
  Like us is "similitude" Bill - it does not mean exactly the "same 
  as" Every human being born by procreation into this fallen 
  worldis also fallen. There is none righteous and none that does 
  good  EXCEPT ONE.
  
  
  Judy argues "like us" in total disregard of the additional 
  phrase "IN EVERY WAY"
  
  
  -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  
  On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:16:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I 
  was just wanting to better understand what you were wanting me to agree 
  with in your statement: we agree if you view the Human part to also 
  have divine thoughts. Having read your response I am comfortable that 
  we can agree. The word "preoccupied" has a ring to it with which I am 
  not completely satisfied, but I believe the man Jesus was preoccupied 
  with doing the will of his heavenly Father; hence his thought-life was 
  fully intuned to the divine.
  
  If you had responded by saying that the man Jesus did not have a 
  human mind, or a human spirit, or a human soul, then I would have had 
  to disagree; for then he would not have been like us in every

Re: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-16 Thread Dave Hansen





Jesus and the Father are of the same substance

DAVEH: What do you mean by substance, DavidM?

David Miller wrote:

  
  
  
  There is only one person who is the Father. Clearly, Jesus is
describing likeness. Whether you are Trinitarian or Oneness in
doctrine concerning the Godhead, the view is that Jesus and the
Father are of the same substance. If memory serves me correctly,
the Greek word is actually the same as that translated likeness. 
  
  In other words, in the same way that we speak of the likeness of
Christ to Father God, so also we should speak of his likeness to
humanity and human flesh.


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-16 Thread Dave Hansen





I took him to be asking if I think I
will ever be divine; i.e., a God myself


DAVEH: No..That's not quite what I was asking, Bill. I realize
you don't feel a divine kinship to God, but I assume you believe you
are a son of God. I'm trying to find out what that means to
you. (As you know, I have a much different perspective, and I'm trying
to understand your contrasting view of what it means to be a son of
God.)



Taylor wrote:

  Well then you answer him, Miller :)   I took him to be asking if I think I
will ever be divine; i.e., a God myself. I do not. If you think otherwise,
then enlighten me too.


- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT
DIVINE


  
  
Dave Hansen makes an excellent point here.  I hope you will be able to
respond, Bill.  I have many passages in the back of my mind that would
support Dave Hansen on this point.

David Miller.
- Original Message -
From: Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS

  
  NOT
  
  
DIVINE

He is God and we are not.

DAVEH:  In a previous post, you had answered No. when I asked you if you
believe we have divine roots.  I realize that we are not God, but yet I
believe there is a relationship we can have with God that encourages us to
become like him.  I assume you do not recognize that relationshipis

  
  that
  
  
correct?  So, how do you perceive becoming one of the sons of God.do

  
  you
  
  
believe you fit into that category, Bill?  And if so, what does it mean to
you?

Taylor wrote:
DHSo.what do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us
from becoming like God?

He is God and we are not.

Bill
- Original Message -
From: Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS

  
  NOT
  
  
DIVINE


DAVEH  As you know, the LDS believe that mortals can become like God.  I
assume you agree with the following.

We can become perfect (in a complete sense) like God.

We can know the difference between good and evil.

We can become one with him, as he (Jesus) is one with his Father.

We will eventually be resurrected like him.

So.what do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us from
becoming like God?

Taylor wrote:
If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ while walking
this earth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you
also believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill


  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-15 Thread Lance Muir




Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, namely, 
outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is' rather than just picking 
around the edges of other's comments concerning 'who Jesus is'. JUST WHICH JESUS 
DO YOU SPEAK OF WHEN SPing?

--- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: January 14, 2006 17:42
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message 
- 
From: Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/14/2006 10:07:54 
AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: 
[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE

Divine = God


cd: Lance Webster puts it this way-Note that 
Christ fits many of the below definitions.



DIVINE, a. [L., a god.]

1. Pertaining to the true God; as the 
divine nature; divine perfections.
2. Pertaining to a heathen deity, or to false 
gods.
3. Partaking of the nature of 
God.
Half human, half divine.
4. Proceeding from God; as 
divine judgments.
5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the 
highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. In this 
application the word admits of comparison; as a 
divine invention; a divine genius; the divinest mind.
A divine sentence is in the lips of the king. Prov 
16.
6. Presageful; foreboding; prescient. [Not 
used.]
7. Appropriated to God, or celebrating his 
praise; as divine service; divine songs; divine 
worship.
DIVINE, n. 
1. A minister of the gospel; a priest; a 
clergyman.
The first divines of New England were 
surpassed by none in extensive erudition, personal sanctity, and diligence 
in the pastoral office.
2. A man skilled in divinity; a theologian; 
as a great divine.
DIVINE, v.t. [L.] 
1. To foreknow; to foretell; to 
presage.
Darst thou divine his downfall?
2. To deify. [Not in 
use.]
DIVINE, v.i. 
1. To use or practice 
divination.
2. To utter presages or 
prognostications.
The prophets thereof 
divine for money. Micah 3.
3. To have presages or 
forebodings.
Suggest but truth to my 
divining thoughts--
4. To guess or conjecture.
Could you divine what lovers 
bear.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-15 Thread Dean Moore









- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 6:49:49 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, namely, outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is' rather than just picking around the edges of other's comments concerning 'who Jesus is'. JUST WHICH JESUS DO YOU SPEAK OF WHEN SPing?

cd: I believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the son of God who came to earth to first teach us a more correct way (truth) and then to die on a tree for the sins of the whole world to pay God redemption price for mankind. He was divine in words, nature, and character. He was God who gave up dwelling as a spirit to take on a lower form in order to die as a spirit cannot die but the flesh can.After death He still exists in the form of a body but not one of flesh (corruption)as the price paid forever marked him also-to I believe towards his eternal glory as we will view those marks in his body. I don't believe it to be possible that God would cease to exist in his spirit nature so while he was in earthly form He had to also exist in heavenly form. This mediator (go between God and man)must exist in both forms in order to relate one to the other. In other words Christ knows what we are capable in doing and what we are capable of overcoming-therefore there will be no excuse.I hope this helps y
ou understand my beliefs Lance.

--- Original Message - 

From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: January 14, 2006 17:42
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/14/2006 10:07:54 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Divine = God


cd: Lance Webster puts it this way-Note that Christ fits many of the below definitions.



DIVINE, a. [L., a god.] 

1. Pertaining to the true God; as the divine nature; divine perfections.
2. Pertaining to a heathen deity, or to false gods.
3. Partaking of the nature of God.
Half human, half divine.
4. Proceeding from God; as divine judgments.
5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. In this application the word admits of comparison; as a divine invention; a divine genius; the divinest mind.
A divine sentence is in the lips of the king. Prov 16.
6. Presageful; foreboding; prescient. [Not used.]
7. Appropriated to God, or celebrating his praise; as divine service; divine songs; divine worship.
DIVINE, n. 
1. A minister of the gospel; a priest; a clergyman.
The first divines of New England were surpassed by none in extensive erudition, personal sanctity, and diligence in the pastoral office.
2. A man skilled in divinity; a theologian; as a great divine.
DIVINE, v.t. [L.] 
1. To foreknow; to foretell; to presage.
Darst thou divine his downfall?
2. To deify. [Not in use.]
DIVINE, v.i. 
1. To use or practice divination.
2. To utter presages or prognostications.
The prophets thereof divine for money. Micah 3.
3. To have presages or forebodings.
Suggest but truth to my divining thoughts--
4. To guess or conjecture.
Could you divine what lovers bear.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-15 Thread Lance Muir

It does. See David? No book this!!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: January 15, 2006 08:34
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 6:49:49 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, namely, 
outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is' rather than just picking 
around the edges of other's comments concerning 'who Jesus is'. JUST WHICH 
JESUS DO YOU SPEAK OF WHEN SPing?

cd: I believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is 
the son of God who came to earth to first teach us a more correct way 
(truth) and then to die on a tree for the sins of the whole world to pay God 
redemption price for mankind. He was divine in words, nature, and character. 
He was God who gave up dwelling as a spirit to take on a lower form in order 
to die as a spirit cannot die but the flesh can.After death He still 
exists in the form of a body but not one of flesh (corruption)as the 
price paid forever marked him also-to I believe towards his eternal glory as 
we will view those marks in his body. I don't believe it to be possible that 
God would cease to exist in his spirit nature so while he was in earthly 
form He had to also exist in heavenly form. This mediator (go between God 
and man)must exist in both forms in order to relate one to the other. In 
other words Christ knows what we are capable in doing and what we are 
capable of overcoming-therefore there will be no excuse.I hope this helps y 
ou understand my beliefs Lance.

--- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: January 14, 2006 17:42
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

- Original 
Message - 
From: Lance 
Muir 
To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/14/2006 
10:07:54 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: 
[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE

Divine = God

cd: Lance Webster puts it this way-Note 
that Christ fits many of the below definitions.

DIVINE, a. [L., a god.] 

1. Pertaining to the true God; as the 
divine nature; divine perfections.
2. Pertaining to a heathen deity, or to 
false gods.
3. Partaking of the nature of 
God.
Half human, half 
divine.
4. Proceeding from God; as 
divine judgments.
5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the 
highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. In this 
application the word admits of comparison; as a 
divine invention; a divine genius; the divinest mind.
A divine sentence is in the lips of the king. 
Prov 16.
6. Presageful; foreboding; prescient. 
[Not used.]
7. Appropriated to God, or celebrating 
his praise; as divine service; divine songs; divine 
worship.
DIVINE, n. 
1. A minister of the gospel; a priest; a 
clergyman.
The first divines of New England were 
surpassed by none in extensive erudition, personal sanctity, and 
diligence in the pastoral office.
2. A man skilled in divinity; a 
theologian; as a great divine.
DIVINE, v.t. [L.] 
1. To foreknow; to foretell; to 
presage.
Darst thou divine his downfall?
2. To deify. [Not in 
use.]
DIVINE, v.i. 
1. To use or practice 
divination.
2. To utter presages or 
prognostications.
The prophets thereof 
divine for money. Micah 3.
3. To have presages or 
forebodings.
Suggest but truth to my 
divining thoughts--
4. To guess or conjecture.
Could you divine what lovers 
bear.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




Howironic that his mentor Bill would write 
something like this. I think Lance just repeated it to qualify 
something.

Lance has been a far greater mentor to me than I to him; I 
assure you. 

There is no irony in my statement. I have 
consistently stated that I believe that the person of Christ was both fully 
human and fully God, which is to say that his human nature was not divine and 
his divine nature was not human; there was no confusion between his 
natures.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:05 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  Dean,
  I think this is where "theology" gets itself tied in 
  knots. This is what JD has been accusing me of for so long.
  Howironic that his mentor Bill would write 
  something like this. I think Lance just repeated it to qualify 
  something. 
  So their Jesus must have a 
  schism in his personality (or nature). What about his saying to 
  Philip"If you have 
  seen meyou have seen 
  the Father" We know he wasn't speaking of his physical body here; so 
  does God 
  The Father also have a schismatic 
  personality.
  
  On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:59:08 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  

Well, yes and no, DH. I am included 
in that circle oflove in the way that Christ's humanity is included in 
that relationship. Butas the humanity of Christ is 
not divine, neitheram I divine. 

  
  cd: Lance at this point-How do you define 
  "Divine"?
-- This message has been scanned for 
  viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be 
  clean.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe 
that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I 
understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ while on this earth was 
fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:34 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 6:49:49 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, namely, 
outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is' rather than just picking 
around the edges of other's comments concerning 'who Jesus is'. JUST WHICH 
JESUS DO YOU SPEAK OF WHEN SPing?

cd: I believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is 
the son of God who came to earth to first teach us a more correct way 
(truth) and then to die on a tree for the sins of the whole world to pay God 
redemption price for mankind. He was divine in words, nature, and character. 
He was God who gave up dwelling as a spirit to take on a lower form in order 
to die as a spirit cannot die but the flesh can.After death He still 
exists in the form of a body but not one of flesh (corruption)as the 
price paid forever marked him also-to I believe towards his eternal glory as 
we will view those marks in his body. I don't believe it to be possible that 
God would cease to exist in his spirit nature so while he was in earthly 
form He had to also exist in heavenly form. This mediator (go between God 
and man)must exist in both forms in order to relate one to the other. In 
other words Christ knows what we are capable in doing and what we are 
capable of overcoming-therefore there will be no excuse.I hope this helps y 
ou understand my beliefs Lance.

--- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: January 14, 2006 17:42
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original 
Message - 
From: Lance Muir 

To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/14/2006 
10:07:54 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: 
[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE

Divine = God


cd: Lance Webster puts it this way-Note 
that Christ fits many of the below definitions.



DIVINE, a. [L., a god.] 

1. Pertaining to the true God; as the 
divine nature; divine perfections.
2. Pertaining to a heathen deity, or to 
false gods.
3. Partaking of the nature of 
God.
Half human, half 
divine.
4. Proceeding from God; as 
divine judgments.
5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the 
highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. In this 
application the word admits of comparison; as a 
divine invention; a divine genius; the divinest mind.
A divine sentence is in the lips of the king. 
Prov 16.
6. Presageful; foreboding; prescient. 
[Not used.]
7. Appropriated to God, or celebrating 
his praise; as divine service; divine songs; divine 
worship.
DIVINE, n. 
1. A minister of the gospel; a priest; a 
clergyman.
The first divines of New England were 
surpassed by none in extensive erudition, personal sanctity, and 
diligence in the pastoral office.
2. A man skilled in divinity; a 
theologian; as a great divine.
DIVINE, v.t. [L.] 
1. To foreknow; to foretell; to 
presage.
Darst thou divine his downfall?
2. To deify. [Not in 
use.]
DIVINE, v.i. 
1. To use or practice 
divination.
2. To utter presages or 
prognostications.
The prophets thereof 
divine for money. Micah 3.
3. To have presages or 
forebodings.
Suggest but truth to my 
divining thoughts--
4. To guess or conjecture.
Could you divine what lovers 
bear.-- 
  This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be 
  clean.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-15 Thread Dave Hansen





DAVEH As you know, the LDS believe that mortals can become like God.
I assume you agree with the following.

 We can become perfect (in a complete sense) like God.

 We can know the difference between good and evil.

 We can become one with him, as he (Jesus) is one with his Father.

 We will eventually be resurrected like him.

 So.what do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us
from becoming like God?

Taylor wrote:

  
  
  
  If I understand you correctly, Dean,
you believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO
TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ
while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.
  
  Bill


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




DH  So.what do you perceive 
to be the limitations that prevent us from becoming like 
God?

He is God and we are not.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dave Hansen 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:11 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  DAVEH As you know, the LDS believe that mortals can 
  become like God. I assume you agree with the 
  following. We can become perfect (in a 
  complete sense) like God. We can know the 
  difference between good and evil. We can become one 
  with him, as he (Jesus) is one with his Father. We 
  will eventually be resurrected like him. So.what 
  do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us from becoming like 
  God?Taylor wrote: 
  



If I understand you correctly, Dean, you 
believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO 
TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ while 
on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.-- This message has been scanned for 
  viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be 
  clean.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-15 Thread Dean Moore




cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine thoughts.




- Original Message - 
From: Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 1:53:48 PM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 6:49:49 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, namely, outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is' rather than just picking around the edges of other's comments concerning 'who Jesus is'. JUST WHICH JESUS DO YOU SPEAK OF WHEN SPing?

cd: I believe that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the son of God who came to earth to first teach us a more correct way (truth) and then to die on a tree for the sins of the whole world to pay God redemption price for mankind. He was divine in words, nature, and character. He was God who gave up dwelling as a spirit to take on a lower form in order to die as a spirit cannot die but the flesh can.After death He still exists in the form of a body but not one of flesh (corruption)as the price paid forever marked him also-to I believe towards his eternal glory as we will view those marks in his body. I don't believe it to be possible that God would cease to exist in his spirit nature so while he was in earthly form He had to also exist in heavenly form. This mediator (go between God and man)must exist in both forms in order to relate one to the other. In other words Christ knows what we are capable in doing and what we are capable of overcoming-therefore there will be no excuse.I hope this helps y
 ou understand my beliefs Lance.

--- Original Message - 

From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: January 14, 2006 17:42
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/14/2006 10:07:54 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Divine = God


cd: Lance Webster puts it this way-Note that Christ fits many of the below definitions.



DIVINE, a. [L., a god.] 

1. Pertaining to the true God; as the divine nature; divine perfections.
2. Pertaining to a heathen deity, or to false gods.
3. Partaking of the nature of God.
Half human, half divine.
4. Proceeding from God; as divine judgments.
5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. In this application the word admits of comparison; as a divine invention; a divine genius; the divinest mind.
A divine sentence is in the lips of the king. Prov 16.
6. Presageful; foreboding; prescient. [Not used.]
7. Appropriated to God, or celebrating his praise; as divine service; divine songs; divine worship.
DIVINE, n. 
1. A minister of the gospel; a priest; a clergyman.
The first divines of New England were surpassed by none in extensive erudition, personal sanctity, and diligence in the pastoral office.
2. A man skilled in divinity; a theologian; as a great divine.
DIVINE, v.t. [L.] 
1. To foreknow; to foretell; to presage.
Darst thou divine his downfall?
2. To deify. [Not in use.]
DIVINE, v.i. 
1. To use or practice divination.
2. To utter presages or prognostications.
The prophets thereof divine for money. Micah 3.
3. To have presages or forebodings.
Suggest but truth to my divining thoughts--
4. To guess or conjecture.
Could you divine what lovers bear.-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-15 Thread Dean Moore





cd: Bill one of the Mormons prophets Alfonso Snow wrote: As God was so are we as God is we will be. I think this is close on name and quote if not forgive my mistake-Mormons consider themselves god's inthe embryonic stage and that Jesus is the God of this world-as they will grow and be gods of their own worlds.



- Original Message - 
From: Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 3:16:56 PM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

DH  So.what do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us from becoming like God?

He is God and we are not.

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Dave Hansen 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
DAVEH As you know, the LDS believe that mortals can become like God. I assume you agree with the following. We can become perfect (in a complete sense) like God. We can know the difference between good and evil. We can become one with him, as he (Jesus) is one with his Father. We will eventually be resurrected like him. So.what do you perceive to be the limitations that prevent us from becoming like God?Taylor wrote: 




If I understand you correctly, Dean, you believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.-- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be clean.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




So that I know for sure what you mean to convey, 
let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine thoughts"?

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:40 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine 
  thoughts.
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 1:53:48 PM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

If I understand you correctly, Dean, you 
believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO 
TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ while 
on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:34 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 6:49:49 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love 
and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, 
namely, outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is' rather than 
just picking around the edges of other's comments concerning 'who Jesus 
is'. JUST WHICH JESUS DO YOU SPEAK OF WHEN SPing?

cd: I believe that Jesus Christ of 
Nazareth is the son of God who came to earth to first teach us a more 
correct way (truth) and then to die on a tree for the sins of the whole 
world to pay God redemption price for mankind. He was divine in words, 
nature, and character. He was God who gave up dwelling as a spirit to 
take on a lower form in order to die as a spirit cannot die but the 
flesh can.After death He still exists in the form of a body but 
not one of flesh (corruption)as the price paid forever marked him 
also-to I believe towards his eternal glory as we will view those marks 
in his body. I don't believe it to be possible that God would cease to 
exist in his spirit nature so while he was in earthly form He had to 
also exist in heavenly form. This mediator (go between God and man)must 
exist in both forms in order to relate one to the other. In other words 
Christ knows what we are capable in doing and what we are capable of 
overcoming-therefore there will be no excuse.I hope this helps y ou 
understand my beliefs Lance.

--- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Dean Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: January 14, 2006 
17:42
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love 
  and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original 
Message - 
From: Lance Muir 

To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/14/2006 
10:07:54 AM 
Subject: Re: Fw: 
[TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
DIVINE

Divine = 
God


cd: Lance Webster puts it this 
way-Note that Christ fits many of the below 
definitions.



DIVINE, a. [L., a god.] 


1. Pertaining to the true God; as the 
divine nature; divine perfections.
2. Pertaining to a heathen deity, or 
to false gods.
3. Partaking of the nature of 
God.
Half human, half 
divine.
4. Proceeding from God; as 
divine judgments.
5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in 
the highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human. 
In this application the word admits of comparison; as a 
divine invention; a 
divine genius; the divinest 
mind.
A divine sentence is in the lips of the 
king. Prov 16.
6. Presageful; foreboding; prescient. 
[Not used.]
7. Appropriated to God, or 
celebrating his praise; as divine 
service; divine songs; 
divine 
worship.
DIVINE, n. 
1. A minister of the gospel; a

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE




Yeah, I have heard that before. And I could 
haveknit-picked his list of propositions, but didn't think it necessary, 
considering the fact that I do not believewe will ever be 
God.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:53 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  
  
  cd: Bill one of the Mormons prophets Alfonso Snow wrote: As God was so 
  are we as God is we will be. I think this is close on name and quote if not 
  forgive my mistake-Mormons consider themselves god's inthe embryonic 
  stage and that Jesus is the God of this world-as they will grow and be gods of 
  their own worlds.
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/15/2006 3:16:56 PM 
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

DH  So.what do you 
perceive to be the limitations that prevent us from becoming like 
God?

He is God and we are not.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dave Hansen 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:11 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  DAVEH As you know, the LDS believe that mortals can 
  become like God. I assume you agree with the 
  following. We can become perfect (in a 
  complete sense) like God. We can know the 
  difference between good and evil. We can become 
  one with him, as he (Jesus) is one with his 
  Father. We will eventually be resurrected like 
  him. So.what do you perceive to be the 
  limitations that prevent us from becoming like God?Taylor wrote: 
  



If I understand you correctly, Dean, you 
believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I 
DO TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ 
while on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.

Bill-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.-- This message has been scanned 
  for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed 
  to be clean. -- This message has been 
  scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Plains.Net, and is believed to be 
  clean.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE

2006-01-15 Thread Judy Taylor




My mother always said "To err is human, to forgive 
divine" so I am sure Dean has divine thoughts
I've seen his public forgiveness right on 
TT

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:13:41 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  So that I know for sure what you mean to convey, 
  let me ask you: do you as a human have "divine thoughts"?
  
  Bill
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean 
Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:40 
PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE


cd: Yes we agree if you view the Human part to also have divine 
thoughts.




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Taylor 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 1/15/2006 1:53:48 PM 
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and 
  trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  If I understand you correctly, Dean, you 
  believe that Christ whilewalking thisearth was fully God. I DO 
  TOO. And if I understand you correctly, you also believe that Christ while 
  on this earth was fully human. I DO TOO.
  
  Bill
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:34 
AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love 
and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE







  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 1/15/2006 6:49:49 AM 
  Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love 
  and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE
  
  Dean:I'd ask of you what I asked of DM, 
  namely, outline your own position regarding 'who Jesus is' rather than 
  just picking around the edges of other's comments concerning 'who 
  Jesus is'. JUST WHICH JESUS DO YOU SPEAK OF WHEN 
  SPing?
  
  cd: I believe that Jesus Christ of 
  Nazareth is the son of God who came to earth to first teach us a more 
  correct way (truth) and then to die on a tree for the sins of the 
  whole world to pay God redemption price for mankind. He was divine in 
  words, nature, and character. He was God who gave up dwelling as a 
  spirit to take on a lower form in order to die as a spirit cannot die 
  but the flesh can.After death He still exists in the form of a 
  body but not one of flesh (corruption)as the price paid forever 
  marked him also-to I believe towards his eternal glory as we will view 
  those marks in his body. I don't believe it to be possible that God 
  would cease to exist in his spirit nature so while he was in earthly 
  form He had to also exist in heavenly form. This mediator (go between 
  God and man)must exist in both forms in order to relate one to the 
  other. In other words Christ knows what we are capable in doing and 
  what we are capable of overcoming-therefore there will be no excuse.I 
  hope this helps y ou understand my beliefs 
Lance.
  
  --- Original Message - 
  
From: 
Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: January 14, 2006 
17:42
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] 
love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE







  - Original 
  Message - 
  From: Lance Muir 
  
  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 
  1/14/2006 10:07:54 AM 
  Subject: Re: 
  Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT 
  DIVINE
  
  Divine = 
  God
  
  
  cd: Lance Webster puts it this 
  way-Note that Christ fits many of the below 
  definitions.
  
  
  
  DIVINE, a. [L., a 
  god.] 
  
  1. Pertaining to the true God; as 
  the divine nature; 
  divine 
  perfections.
  2. Pertaining to a heathen deity, 
  or to false gods.
  3. Partaking of the nature of 
  God.
  Half human, half 
  divine.
  4. Proceeding from God; as 
  divine judgments.
  5. Godlike; heavenly; excellent in 
  the highest degree; extraordinary; apparently above what is human.

Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] love and trinity THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IS NOT DIVINE