RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
You are being paranoid ;-) They want to be able to connect your license with the account. This way you can also access support calls etc... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Eppel,Gary Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 12:04 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers The problem I have with giving my end users access is that I apparently have to provide them with my company's customer ID# - at least according to the emails I have been exchanging with IBM recently on the procedure for getting this done. IBM insists that the system is secure, and that end users won't be able to use that number for unhealthy ends, but I'm not confident at all about that. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. Or maybe I have completely misunderstood IBM's description of this whole thing. Can someone confirm or refute this? Gary Eppel Cerner Corporation -Original Message- >> If a VAR is going to make excuses and deny access, its time to review when the contract renewal date is << Debra A. Fedchin ~~ H: 732.698.0499 C: 732.233.3088 www.infinite-systems.net "Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm". -Syrus Publilius - CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and any included attachments are from Cerner Corporation and are intended only for the addressee. The information contained in this message is confidential and may constitute inside or non-public information under international, federal, or state securities laws. Unauthorized forwarding, printing, copying, distribution, or use of such information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the addressee, please promptly delete this message and notify the sender of the delivery error by e-mail or you may call Cerner's corporate offices in Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A at (+1) (816)221-1024. --- --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Gary I give my customers by bank account number so they can pay me. It is identification. If the customer does not have your password there is nothing that they should be able to do. If they can IBM has got a problem Regards David Jordan Managing Consultant > The problem I have with giving my end users access is that I apparently > have to provide them with my company's customer ID# - at least according > to the emails I have been exchanging with IBM recently on the procedure > for getting this done. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
The problem I have with giving my end users access is that I apparently have to provide them with my company's customer ID# - at least according to the emails I have been exchanging with IBM recently on the procedure for getting this done. IBM insists that the system is secure, and that end users won't be able to use that number for unhealthy ends, but I'm not confident at all about that. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. Or maybe I have completely misunderstood IBM's description of this whole thing. Can someone confirm or refute this? Gary Eppel Cerner Corporation -Original Message- >> If a VAR is going to make excuses and deny access, its time to review when the contract renewal date is << Debra A. Fedchin ~~ H: 732.698.0499 C: 732.233.3088 www.infinite-systems.net "Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm". -Syrus Publilius - CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and any included attachments are from Cerner Corporation and are intended only for the addressee. The information contained in this message is confidential and may constitute inside or non-public information under international, federal, or state securities laws. Unauthorized forwarding, printing, copying, distribution, or use of such information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the addressee, please promptly delete this message and notify the sender of the delivery error by e-mail or you may call Cerner's corporate offices in Kansas City, Missouri, U.S.A at (+1) (816)221-1024. --- --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
On 14/11/06, Doug Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At 11:16 PM 11/12/2006, you wrote: > And another thing, I heard talks about combining user ids on IBM's > website to a 1 universal web user id to simplify access. We as Vars > are frustrated too as it is confusing of what user id is needed in > the different sections of IBM's website. I have not heard anything > lately on plans of releasing this anytime soon but hopefully it is > still in the works. > That would be good - i currently have 3 logins to the site, 1st techconnect then business connect then the IBM site login for the knowledgebase rgds Symeon. --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
All Whether you agree or disagree with those comments, now is YOUR chance to make a difference! December is the start of the nomination period for new U2UG Board Members. We need committed, passionate individuals who can share the concerns of the U2 community with IBM, and who can contribute to the exciting projects we have under way: "Better and Better" Knowledge Base New U2UG website Learning Pack for new developers (sample code, tutorials etc) U2 Speakers And anything else YOU want to bring to the community. So bring us your ideas and your enthusiasm! Watch this space for announcements and instructions on how you can nominate yourself or someone you think can make a difference, and consider whether you want to give something to this community. Brian Leach U2UG Vice President > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debster > Sent: 15 November 2006 01:22 > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers > > Well... > > I'll thank John N when he comes in tomorrow ;-) > > It's sad that IBM always seems to come in a day late and a > dollar short on cutting edge items in the service arena > > I think they are still can't figure out why they fell behind > in the PC market... --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Well... I'll thank John N when he comes in tomorrow ;-) It's sad that IBM always seems to come in a day late and a dollar short on cutting edge items in the service arena I think they are still can't figure out why they fell behind in the PC market... I never had to deal with this on prior sites for some years due to the fact that most of the systems I was on were purchased direct -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Doug Miller Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 3:30 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers At 11:16 PM 11/12/2006, you wrote: >I don't know how 'aggressive' strategy 7 needed to be in oder to secure >access to the knowledge base.. > >I took one phone call to them after I was booted from IBM because S7 held >the license, and I was on in no time flat I can speak to this as I was personally involved. We had to be somewhat 'aggressive' for Charles access as he was an early pioneer for having this access once IBM released it to be open for end users. There were alot of kinks on the IBM side initially because of complicated permissions with multiple user ids. We were more or less in a beta stage with Charles at that time and had to work through it. Now we have it down to a science and turn around time for access is a day or so from the time the request is in. (And yes now I see your post today saying the same thing but I already typed this up :-)) And no we are not threatened by empowering our customers. Our customers base realizes our value add. We provide 7X24 service at the same rate IBM would charge and have personalized service in which you always reach a real live person within a few rings. Pretty much old school ways of doing support. And another thing, I heard talks about combining user ids on IBM's website to a 1 universal web user id to simplify access. We as Vars are frustrated too as it is confusing of what user id is needed in the different sections of IBM's website. I have not heard anything lately on plans of releasing this anytime soon but hopefully it is still in the works. Doug Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manager of Technical Services Strategy 7Dallas TX --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
At 11:16 PM 11/12/2006, you wrote: I don't know how 'aggressive' strategy 7 needed to be in oder to secure access to the knowledge base.. I took one phone call to them after I was booted from IBM because S7 held the license, and I was on in no time flat I can speak to this as I was personally involved. We had to be somewhat 'aggressive' for Charles access as he was an early pioneer for having this access once IBM released it to be open for end users. There were alot of kinks on the IBM side initially because of complicated permissions with multiple user ids. We were more or less in a beta stage with Charles at that time and had to work through it. Now we have it down to a science and turn around time for access is a day or so from the time the request is in. (And yes now I see your post today saying the same thing but I already typed this up :-)) And no we are not threatened by empowering our customers. Our customers base realizes our value add. We provide 7X24 service at the same rate IBM would charge and have personalized service in which you always reach a real live person within a few rings. Pretty much old school ways of doing support. And another thing, I heard talks about combining user ids on IBM's website to a 1 universal web user id to simplify access. We as Vars are frustrated too as it is confusing of what user id is needed in the different sections of IBM's website. I have not heard anything lately on plans of releasing this anytime soon but hopefully it is still in the works. Doug Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manager of Technical Services Strategy 7Dallas TX --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Wellthat might be believable with the excepton being that the majority
portion of IBM hasn't a clue as to what U2 is...
It's not just U2 sadly though, AS400 hasn't a clue about RS6000, and worse
with RS6000 not fully understanding those items that can overlay it, ...
It's a prime example of vertical (rather than horizontal) training at its
worst..
Too true. A fairly short time ago I had the "pleasure" of discussing disaster
recovery planning with two IBM'ers. After much discussion about UniVerse (they
had never heard of it, "U2" or UniData) they went ahead and wrote about the DB2
Universal Database system But they weren't alone - a security consultant
who had actually heard of Pick also fell into the "DB2 UDB" trap over and
over and over again {sigh}.
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RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Repeat business is a very good thing. Costs much less to retain an
existing customer than to find a new one.
More interesting would be how many unsolicited referrals this vendor got
("word of mouth" advertising where an existing customer recommends the
vendor to somebody new).
The VARs on the forum, or anyone else interested in sales, might enjoy
Jeffrey Gitomer's sales-oriented web site, www.gitomer.com , which has
free, weekly, easy-to-read columns on topics like this.
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/12/06 9:56 PM >>>
Brian:
"I remember an speech years ago by an MV vendor proudly saying that 80%
of
his business was repeat business. He saw that as customer care. I saw it
as
lack of outreach. Who was right?"
For a few years, he; for the rest, you! Remember, in the long run we're
all
dead, so, it's no surprise some take the short-term view. :-)
Bill
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RE: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Sorry but I'm going to stand up and defend IBM (for once - grin). IBM *have* moved the U2 products forward over the last year or so. There was a time when for many winters we didn't see significant development on the U2 platforms themselves, but the additions of XML, web services, data encryption and similar features - well, if IBM didn't want a future MV environment they *could* have just sat on the products and not enhanced them. And attitudes at IBM seem to have changed over the past year or so. Two years ago it was all "DB2, DB2, DB2". Now they seem to have people in place who realize that U2 makes money and that it should be supported. Now it's up to us to do our bit in getting the word out. Brian >Conspiracy Theory: > >Maybe IBM does not want a future MV environment, maybe they hope >everyone will go to DB2...if so, then I hope it works. I think more >likely they would go to Microsoft, where information is readily >available. > >;-) > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach >Sent: Monday, 13 November 2006 6:45 a.m. >To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org >Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers > >Exactly ! > >A good knowledge flow opens people's eyes and creates opportunities. > >And it's not just an end user issue. Without knowledge flow where will >the next generation of vars come from? Who will bring new blood and >investment? How will we encourage developers into our market ? How much >more difficult are we making it to sell mv based solutions to end users >by obscuring the full potential of what they are buying ? How many times >have mv-invested companies resorted to other solutions because they >didn't unow that their existing systems had the capabilities to deliver >what they needed all along? > > It is in all our interests - users, vars, consultants - to raise and >keep fresh the profile of this technology. That begins by making sure >people out there can understand what it can achieve for them. > >I remember an speech years ago by a mv vendor proudly saying that 80% of >his business was repeat business. He saw that as customer care. I saw it >as lack of outreach. Who was right? > >Brian > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Ken Wallis"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: 11/11/06 23:42:25 >To: "u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org" >Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house >developers > >Chuck Stevenson wrote: > >> Interestingly, guys like me don't care, because vars like Strategy >> Seven are nice to us. It would be end users with curmudgeonly >vars >> that would need a user group to make this end run. I still think >> someone who cares should submit a U2UG enhancement request and >others >> should second it. Otherwise IBM only hears about you through the >very >> var who is blocking you. > >And the odd thing is that it is VARs like S7 who make money from >their >generic skills in the database platforms rather than from working in >specific vertical markets with their applications. You would have >thought >S7 were the sort of VAR who might consider themselves in danger of >losing >revenue by working to get this information out. > >Clearly, however, they must realise that access to information helps >users >understand what is possible and want to make use of the technology. > >Cheers, > >Ken >--- >u2-users mailing list >u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org >To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ >--- >u2-users mailing list >u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org >To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ >--- >u2-users mailing list >u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org >To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ >--- >u2-users mailing list >u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org >To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Wellthat might be believable with the excepton being that the majority
portion of IBM hasn't a clue as to what U2 is...
It's not just U2 sadly though, AS400 hasn't a clue about RS6000, and worse
with RS6000 not fully understanding those items that can overlay it, ...
It's a prime example of vertical (rather than horizontal) training at its
worst..
~ Debster
"Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm".
-Syrus Publilius
www.infinite-systems.net
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of phil walker
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:57 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Conspiracy Theory:
Maybe IBM does not want a future MV environment, maybe they hope
everyone will go to DB2...if so, then I hope it works. I think more
likely they would go to Microsoft, where information is readily
available.
;-)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach
Sent: Monday, 13 November 2006 6:45 a.m.
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Exactly !
A good knowledge flow opens people's eyes and creates opportunities.
And it's not just an end user issue. Without knowledge flow where will
the next generation of vars come from? Who will bring new blood and
investment? How will we encourage developers into our market ? How much
more difficult are we making it to sell mv based solutions to end users
by obscuring the full potential of what they are buying ? How many times
have mv-invested companies resorted to other solutions because they
didn't unow that their existing systems had the capabilities to deliver
what they needed all along?
It is in all our interests - users, vars, consultants - to raise and
keep fresh the profile of this technology. That begins by making sure
people out there can understand what it can achieve for them.
I remember an speech years ago by a mv vendor proudly saying that 80% of
his business was repeat business. He saw that as customer care. I saw it
as lack of outreach. Who was right?
Brian
-Original Message-
From: "Ken Wallis"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11/11/06 23:42:25
To: "u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org"
Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house
developers
Chuck Stevenson wrote:
> Interestingly, guys like me don't care, because vars like Strategy
> Seven are nice to us. It would be end users with curmudgeonly
vars
> that would need a user group to make this end run. I still think
> someone who cares should submit a U2UG enhancement request and
others
> should second it. Otherwise IBM only hears about you through the
very
> var who is blocking you.
And the odd thing is that it is VARs like S7 who make money from
their
generic skills in the database platforms rather than from working in
specific vertical markets with their applications. You would have
thought
S7 were the sort of VAR who might consider themselves in danger of
losing
revenue by working to get this information out.
Clearly, however, they must realise that access to information helps
users
understand what is possible and want to make use of the technology.
Cheers,
Ken
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RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
I use the IBM site all the time for Lotus Notes/Domino related information. They have forums and tech notes etc. and none of these are password protected. Incidently I have an IBM ID and password that I received ages ago as a Lotus Notes Business Partner. That password allows me to see the UniVerse (and presumably Unidata) tech notes. Why not become a Lotus Notes business partner (I'm sure it's free) and then U2 could access the knowledge base?! Incidently, I'm a firm believer that keeping knowledge to yourself in order to try and retain power or control is ultimately flawed and that sharing knowledge is usually a WIN WIN. If your VAR doesn't agree, you could always vote with your feet. Regards, Rob Wills (rob dot wills at tigerinfotech dot com) "Stevenson, Charles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 13/11/2006 06:33:56: > Yes, now it's easy, except for pages that get moved around so bookmarks > fail, & login confusion that Deb already noted. But that's a separate > issue. (I wonder if the other IBM user groups are complaining about > that.) --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
> I don't know how 'aggressive' strategy 7 needed to be in order > to secure access to the knowledge base.. I meant that they were aggressive in getting the access mechanism for us in the first place. If I remember correctly, a couple years ago or so there was a nice announcement in the email newsletter from IBM that said we could get knowledgebase access via our vars. Before that announcement, I had complained thru my support vendor, S7, that I wanted but didn't have said access. They went to bat for me and I sort of beta tested it before that newsletter announcement. Maybe there were others besides me, I don't know. I think it was before U2Ug. That's the "aggressiveness" I referred to. At least, that's how I remember it. > I took one phone call to them after I was booted from IBM > because S7 held the license, and I was on in no time flat Yes, now it's easy, except for pages that get moved around so bookmarks fail, & login confusion that Deb already noted. But that's a separate issue. (I wonder if the other IBM user groups are complaining about that.) cds --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
I don't know how 'aggressive' strategy 7 needed to be in oder to secure access to the knowledge base.. I took one phone call to them after I was booted from IBM because S7 held the license, and I was on in no time flat If a VAR is going to make excuses and deny access, its time to review when the contract renewal date is It's not the Knowledge Base that pisses me off -- it the hoops between Developer Works AND Knowledge Base. There should be a smooth flow between the two, 1 access to both or tiered based on rights. Also the fact that IBM can't get the website from losing your login, and forcing re-entry of login info is annoying. Forget it if you hold licenses for multiple systems -- that REALLY confuses them(especially if one was direct) Opening access reduces support calls, and I don't know any support staff that truly welcomes being inundated with calls when you can RTFM or review online references to get an answer. Except if the VAR wants to boost call response numbers by barring access, then it's a bogus water mark. Debra A. Fedchin ~~ H: 732.698.0499 C: 732.233.3088 www.infinite-systems.net "Anyone can hold the helm when the sea is calm". -Syrus Publilius -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stevenson, Charles Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 1:28 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers I don't see why anyone, IBM or var, needs to guard that door. Just open it up to the general public. I don't think there is anything --- or very little --- in that knowledgebase that needs to be so carefully guarded that only people with the secret handshake get to see it. Let anyone who wants to see it, see it. It's not as if IBM is going to be inundated by hits due to teenagers posting links on MySpace. Actually, there is one reason to keep people out: Knowledge is Power. Apparently some vars want to keep their users dependent on them. Bruce, you list some reasons vars might have. Apparently some of those are legitimate enough that they have persuaded IBM to keep the secrets. But if enough users who vehemently disagree and want access, IBM has to rethink who they want to please. A user group is precisely where that rabble should rouse. I often hear complaints that one can't find knowledgeable practitioners of U2. That is a reason to avoid or abandon the platform. Interestingly, guys like me don't care, because vars like Strategy Seven are nice to us. It would be end users with curmudgeonly vars that would need a user group to make this end run. I still thnk someone who cares should submit a U2UG enhancement request and others should second it. Otherwise IBM only hears about you through the very var who is blocking you. cds > From: Bruce Nichol > > Stevenson, Charles wrote: > > First, my own var, Strategy Seven, was aggressive in getting me access > > to the knowledgebase. > > > I think that says it all. > > Surely, it's up to each VAR to determine if any and/or all of > their users should or should not have access to the > knowledgebase, for whatever reason, be it revenue stream, be > it implementation quirks, code, whatever > > Can IBM maintain a register of end-user within VAR to permit access? > T'wouldn't be too difficult, Ida thought. > > This isn't really a function of a user group, is it? It's > solely an > individual user/VAR/IBM function, and I firmly believe the > VAR has some > rights to preclude access if the VAR deems it prudent. > > -- > Regards, > > Bruce Nichol > Talon Computer Services > ALBURYNSW 2640 > Australia --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Brian: "I remember an speech years ago by an MV vendor proudly saying that 80% of his business was repeat business. He saw that as customer care. I saw it as lack of outreach. Who was right?" For a few years, he; for the rest, you! Remember, in the long run we're all dead, so, it's no surprise some take the short-term view. :-) Bill --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
As an IBM reseller of U2 products, I can assure you that your VAR or reseller can request that their users get access to the IBM documentation. You just need to ask the vendor who charges you for U2 support. Ken At 05:47 PM 11/10/2006, you wrote: >Stevenson, Charles wrote: >>First, my own var, Strategy Seven, was aggressive in getting me access >>to the knowledgebase. >> >I think that says it all. >Surely, it's up to each VAR to determine if any and/or all of their >users should or should not have access to the knowledgebase, for >whatever reason, be it revenue stream, be it implementation quirks, >code, whatever > >Can IBM maintain a register of end-user within VAR to permit access? >T'wouldn't be too difficult, Ida thought. >This isn't really a function of a user group, is it? It's solely >an individual user/VAR/IBM function, and I firmly believe the VAR >has some rights to preclude access if the VAR deems it prudent. > >-- >Regards, > >Bruce Nichol >Talon Computer Services >ALBURYNSW 2640 >Australia > >http://www.taloncs.com.au > >Tel: +61 (0)411149636 Fax: +61 (0)260232119 > >If it ain't broke, fix it till it is! >--- >u2-users mailing list >u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org >To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Conspiracy Theory: Maybe IBM does not want a future MV environment, maybe they hope everyone will go to DB2...if so, then I hope it works. I think more likely they would go to Microsoft, where information is readily available. ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Monday, 13 November 2006 6:45 a.m. To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers Exactly ! A good knowledge flow opens people's eyes and creates opportunities. And it's not just an end user issue. Without knowledge flow where will the next generation of vars come from? Who will bring new blood and investment? How will we encourage developers into our market ? How much more difficult are we making it to sell mv based solutions to end users by obscuring the full potential of what they are buying ? How many times have mv-invested companies resorted to other solutions because they didn't unow that their existing systems had the capabilities to deliver what they needed all along? It is in all our interests - users, vars, consultants - to raise and keep fresh the profile of this technology. That begins by making sure people out there can understand what it can achieve for them. I remember an speech years ago by a mv vendor proudly saying that 80% of his business was repeat business. He saw that as customer care. I saw it as lack of outreach. Who was right? Brian -Original Message- From: "Ken Wallis"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 11/11/06 23:42:25 To: "u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org" Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers Chuck Stevenson wrote: > Interestingly, guys like me don't care, because vars like Strategy > Seven are nice to us. It would be end users with curmudgeonly vars > that would need a user group to make this end run. I still think > someone who cares should submit a U2UG enhancement request and others > should second it. Otherwise IBM only hears about you through the very > var who is blocking you. And the odd thing is that it is VARs like S7 who make money from their generic skills in the database platforms rather than from working in specific vertical markets with their applications. You would have thought S7 were the sort of VAR who might consider themselves in danger of losing revenue by working to get this information out. Clearly, however, they must realise that access to information helps users understand what is possible and want to make use of the technology. Cheers, Ken --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Exactly ! A good knowledge flow opens people's eyes and creates opportunities. And it's not just an end user issue. Without knowledge flow where will the next generation of vars come from? Who will bring new blood and investment? How will we encourage developers into our market ? How much more difficult are we making it to sell mv based solutions to end users by obscuring the full potential of what they are buying ? How many times have mv-invested companies resorted to other solutions because they didn't unow that their existing systems had the capabilities to deliver what they needed all along? It is in all our interests - users, vars, consultants - to raise and keep fresh the profile of this technology. That begins by making sure people out there can understand what it can achieve for them. I remember an speech years ago by a mv vendor proudly saying that 80% of his business was repeat business. He saw that as customer care. I saw it as lack of outreach. Who was right? Brian -Original Message- From: "Ken Wallis"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 11/11/06 23:42:25 To: "u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org" Subject: RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers Chuck Stevenson wrote: > Interestingly, guys like me don't care, because vars like Strategy > Seven are nice to us. It would be end users with curmudgeonly vars > that would need a user group to make this end run. I still think > someone who cares should submit a U2UG enhancement request and others > should second it. Otherwise IBM only hears about you through the very > var who is blocking you. And the odd thing is that it is VARs like S7 who make money from their generic skills in the database platforms rather than from working in specific vertical markets with their applications. You would have thought S7 were the sort of VAR who might consider themselves in danger of losing revenue by working to get this information out. Clearly, however, they must realise that access to information helps users understand what is possible and want to make use of the technology. Cheers, Ken --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: Re: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > If I buy an SQL Server based application, I can still get to > the huge Microsoft knowledge base. Even if I D_O_N_'_T buy SQL Server I can still get to the MS knowledge base if I wanted. Ubiquity is a draw for MS SQL. What about DB2 or Informix knowledgebases? Does IBM hide those? cds --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Chuck Stevenson wrote: > Interestingly, guys like me don't care, because vars like Strategy > Seven are nice to us. It would be end users with curmudgeonly vars > that would need a user group to make this end run. I still think > someone who cares should submit a U2UG enhancement request and others > should second it. Otherwise IBM only hears about you through the very > var who is blocking you. And the odd thing is that it is VARs like S7 who make money from their generic skills in the database platforms rather than from working in specific vertical markets with their applications. You would have thought S7 were the sort of VAR who might consider themselves in danger of losing revenue by working to get this information out. Clearly, however, they must realise that access to information helps users understand what is possible and want to make use of the technology. Cheers, Ken --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Brian and Charles have the interests of the user in mind in this argument and it would seem obvious that the vendor, IBM, and its sales channels would too. So... what is wrong with our thinking or theirs. The "Knowledge is Power" argument is really "Knowledge is Money". I invite you to correct this syllogism if you see an error. IBM wants to sell U2 (Are we sure of that?), Vars do all of the selling for IBM making money for IBM. (Do they?) Vars want to sell both the IBM products and their own services which depend on knowledge. Vars are the competition for the independent consultant who is also in the knowledge business. But, the Independent consultants never send money to IBM! Who will IBM want to keep happy? To win access to the knowledge you must find a way to put money in the pockets of Big Blue... or threaten to remove current and future income streams. Knowledge is power, but power is also in unions and buyer's groups if you take the path of force. On the other had, diplomacy might win the day if IBM can see some way to make more money selling U2 software through Independents, or by bundling it with hardware, or by giving it away and selling their own services (we could be sub-contractors to IBM). The net-net is that IBM's divisions have to make their numbers... or the guy/gal at the top gets the ax. If what you want adds to IBM's income or keeps it from drying up, you win. If not... well, the Bard said it better that I can, "...it is a tale... ...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Patrick Williams, President American Computer Technics, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This isn't really a function of a user group, is it? It's solely an individual user/VAR/IBM function, and I firmly believe the VAR has some rights to preclude access if the VAR deems it prudent. Why ? The end user is buying the product - and they should have access to make full use of it. That sort of protectiveness just masks a laziness on the part o f the VAR: are they worried their users might end up knowing more than they do, or start looking at what their VARs are actually supplying in terms of systems and service too closely? If the VARs are really adding value, they won't have anything to fear. If they aren't - they should get off their backsides and start doing so. The worst outcome is the 'little knowledge' syndrome, where users end up catchi ng bits and pieces from other sources without having access to the background i nformation to apply it safely. If I buy an SQL Server based application, I can still get to the huge Microsoft knowledge base. It's that kind of dark-ages thinking that holds us all back. Brian --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: Re: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Brian: Well said. Stoping those who __WANT__ to learn more is not reasonable. Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 5:45 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: RE: Re: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers >This isn't really a function of a user group, is it? It's solely an >individual user/VAR/IBM function, and I firmly believe the VAR has some >rights to preclude access if the VAR deems it prudent. > Why ? The end user is buying the product - and they should have access to make full use of it. That sort of protectiveness just masks a laziness on the part of the VAR: are they worried their users might end up knowing more than they do, or start looking at what their VARs are actually supplying in terms of systems and service too closely? If the VARs are really adding value, they won't have anything to fear. If they aren't - they should get off their backsides and start doing so. The worst outcome is the 'little knowledge' syndrome, where users end up catching bits and pieces from other sources without having access to the background information to apply it safely. If I buy an SQL Server based application, I can still get to the huge Microsoft knowledge base. It's that kind of dark-ages thinking that holds us all back. Brian --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: Re: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
>This isn't really a function of a user group, is it? It's solely an >individual user/VAR/IBM function, and I firmly believe the VAR has some >rights to preclude access if the VAR deems it prudent. > Why ? The end user is buying the product - and they should have access to make full use of it. That sort of protectiveness just masks a laziness on the part of the VAR: are they worried their users might end up knowing more than they do, or start looking at what their VARs are actually supplying in terms of systems and service too closely? If the VARs are really adding value, they won't have anything to fear. If they aren't - they should get off their backsides and start doing so. The worst outcome is the 'little knowledge' syndrome, where users end up catching bits and pieces from other sources without having access to the background information to apply it safely. If I buy an SQL Server based application, I can still get to the huge Microsoft knowledge base. It's that kind of dark-ages thinking that holds us all back. Brian --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
RE: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
I don't see why anyone, IBM or var, needs to guard that door. Just open it up to the general public. I don't think there is anything --- or very little --- in that knowledgebase that needs to be so carefully guarded that only people with the secret handshake get to see it. Let anyone who wants to see it, see it. It's not as if IBM is going to be inundated by hits due to teenagers posting links on MySpace. Actually, there is one reason to keep people out: Knowledge is Power. Apparently some vars want to keep their users dependent on them. Bruce, you list some reasons vars might have. Apparently some of those are legitimate enough that they have persuaded IBM to keep the secrets. But if enough users who vehemently disagree and want access, IBM has to rethink who they want to please. A user group is precisely where that rabble should rouse. I often hear complaints that one can't find knowledgeable practitioners of U2. That is a reason to avoid or abandon the platform. Interestingly, guys like me don't care, because vars like Strategy Seven are nice to us. It would be end users with curmudgeonly vars that would need a user group to make this end run. I still thnk someone who cares should submit a U2UG enhancement request and others should second it. Otherwise IBM only hears about you through the very var who is blocking you. cds > From: Bruce Nichol > > Stevenson, Charles wrote: > > First, my own var, Strategy Seven, was aggressive in getting me access > > to the knowledgebase. > > > I think that says it all. > > Surely, it's up to each VAR to determine if any and/or all of > their users should or should not have access to the > knowledgebase, for whatever reason, be it revenue stream, be > it implementation quirks, code, whatever > > Can IBM maintain a register of end-user within VAR to permit access? > T'wouldn't be too difficult, Ida thought. > > This isn't really a function of a user group, is it? It's > solely an > individual user/VAR/IBM function, and I firmly believe the > VAR has some > rights to preclude access if the VAR deems it prudent. > > -- > Regards, > > Bruce Nichol > Talon Computer Services > ALBURYNSW 2640 > Australia --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: [U2] Access to IBM knowledgebase for in-house developers
Stevenson, Charles wrote: First, my own var, Strategy Seven, was aggressive in getting me access to the knowledgebase. I think that says it all. Surely, it's up to each VAR to determine if any and/or all of their users should or should not have access to the knowledgebase, for whatever reason, be it revenue stream, be it implementation quirks, code, whatever Can IBM maintain a register of end-user within VAR to permit access? T'wouldn't be too difficult, Ida thought. This isn't really a function of a user group, is it? It's solely an individual user/VAR/IBM function, and I firmly believe the VAR has some rights to preclude access if the VAR deems it prudent. -- Regards, Bruce Nichol Talon Computer Services ALBURYNSW 2640 Australia http://www.taloncs.com.au Tel: +61 (0)411149636 Fax: +61 (0)260232119 If it ain't broke, fix it till it is! --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
