Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 15:32, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Thu, May 23, 2013 12:21 am, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Am 23.05.2013 06:17, schrieb Len Ovens: > > It should be easier to disable PA to a near-removed status though >>> >>> Unload module-jackdbus-detect: >>> pactl unload-module module-jackdbus-detect >>> >>> PA still takes up memory, but uses almost no cpu without that module. >> >> The CPU-load would be tolerable, the problem is, what PA+dbus do at >> startup. Is there a way to blacklist interfaces? Some command like : "PA >> do not touch that device!"? > > Yes, run pavucontrol, select the last tab (configuration?) select the card > you want PA to leave alone and turn it's "profile" to OFF. Thanks for the hint, I did not know that. Sadly it looks, like the problem resides deeper in the bowels of dbus: the problem prevails, only KDE spits out "device is not available" messages Anyway: thanks again! with every shot in the dark we draw nearer a real solution or as Spock puts it: "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." ;-) > Counter > intuitively, I turn off the cards Jack is not going to want to use as I > have found that the PA-jack bridge links the two cards. In other words, if > PA uses the internal HDA (mine does not do good low latency due to HW > problems) and Jack is using my USB IF, the problems I would have with the > HDA, show up on the USB. The PA-Jack bridge forces PA to try to do the > same latency as jack. > > I am not sure if that is clear. The thing to remember is that they do > interact when bridged. This is not really a bug any more than the fact > that a trailer will affect the way your car drives. > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 1:01 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > So there may in fact be a DE that is best suited to any one workflow. That > is, someone doing a video workflow may find that xfce is not the best DE > to use and that the programs they are using run better and more reliably > on something else. There are things missing in xfce like colour > correction, that KDE has, gnome has, unity has. > I think that's a good idea. I have been looking at using something like xmonad for my audio work to set up a pre-configured desktop where all my usual windows and applications open in preset places. And perhaps there could be some guidelines on what DE to use, when and why? /Jimmy -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013 11:35 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: > Surely there are more people who want to make US work with any > particular desktop than there are desktops! I did the Cinnamon work > myself > for the legacy desktop, simply so I could use it Have all the necessary > files to > make it work. Only hassle is that the Cinnamon menus for some reason > ignore the > UbuntuStudio A/V submenus, instead putting all the A/V apps into "sound > and video" > no matter what you do in the menu editor. That is what I have been working on as happens. The Studio custom A/V menus are right now specific to xfce. I am working to break the Studio menu into three parts. The stock menu that the DE comes with, a static (I hope) studio specific base menu to hold everything in and the A/V block. This is what has lead me to start looking at various DEs to see what my mods are going to do to them. It is why I want to know what makes KDE, KDE to the user. What makes gnome shell what someone wants to use. I could set KDE up to look not much different from xfce does and gnome2 did, but why? I can set up KDE to list apps and launch them in at least 5 different ways... there are at least two more methods of just launching using a search method or a run box as well. Then there is the whole activities setup which could be very useful in setting up workflows if used right. It could also be a big fail if used in the wrong manner. lxde, is going to be the most like xfce, in fact lubuntu uses quite a lot of xfce utilities in the background. The menu will likely be almost identical. It would probably be the easiest DE to include, the challenge would be to actually keep it "light". Just starting kdenlive for example, starts a lot of KDE background tasks... and those tasks don't go away just because kdenlive is closed. So there may in fact be a DE that is best suited to any one workflow. That is, someone doing a video workflow may find that xfce is not the best DE to use and that the programs they are using run better and more reliably on something else. There are things missing in xfce like colour correction, that KDE has, gnome has, unity has. The goal is to make any app work well with any DE. However, depending on the user's HW and the apps used that may not be possible or even testable. We can only test on the machines we have and people with a high interest in one kind of creation tend to buy machines that work best there. I buy looking for low latency in the MB and the ability to work with my audio card or an audio card I am interested in, the most basic video card is fine. Someone in visual creation will be looking at monitors, stylus pads, and graphic cards, audio may only be for entertainment for them. Anyway, assuming Cinnamon uses the gnome menu style of old, it should be easy to add in the A/V menu overlay with that DE too. (easy doesn't mean no work :) -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Thanks. Figure I'll put the development image on an extra partition, external to the encrypted space in my system drive. Will take me a few days just to get to the once place I can download the DVD image, though. Access at home is a wireless connection only, no landline access. On 05/23/2013 at 4:39 PM, "Kaj Ailomaa" wrote: > >On Thu, May 23, 2013, at 10:25 PM, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: >> OK, I just pulled the information fom the Wiki. Will take me a >while >> to get this rolling, for two reasons: Bandwidth issues mean I >have >> to go on the road to pull a DVD image, and I first need to learn >to >> build my existing code into Debian packages (I use ordinary >tarballs >> locally at this point). >> >> I'll start chewing on this, already have a Launchpad account, >I'll try >> to get a meta setup for 13.10. Question: Cinnamon is still in a >PPA, >> should I use a package to add that PPA to sources.list for the >build, >> or do something else? >> > >You don't need to find out how to do the meta by yourself, but once >you're done setting up a dev environment, I'll let you in on how >it's >done. >Just let me know when you're ready to begin. > >-- >Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list >Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013, at 10:25 PM, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: > OK, I just pulled the information fom the Wiki. Will take me a while > to get this rolling, for two reasons: Bandwidth issues mean I have > to go on the road to pull a DVD image, and I first need to learn to > build my existing code into Debian packages (I use ordinary tarballs > locally at this point). > > I'll start chewing on this, already have a Launchpad account, I'll try > to get a meta setup for 13.10. Question: Cinnamon is still in a PPA, > should I use a package to add that PPA to sources.list for the build, > or do something else? > You don't need to find out how to do the meta by yourself, but once you're done setting up a dev environment, I'll let you in on how it's done. Just let me know when you're ready to begin. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
OK, I just pulled the information fom the Wiki. Will take me a while to get this rolling, for two reasons: Bandwidth issues mean I have to go on the road to pull a DVD image, and I first need to learn to build my existing code into Debian packages (I use ordinary tarballs locally at this point). I'll start chewing on this, already have a Launchpad account, I'll try to get a meta setup for 13.10. Question: Cinnamon is still in a PPA, should I use a package to add that PPA to sources.list for the build, or do something else? > >If you like, you can work at adding a Cinnamon based meta for >Ubuntu >Studio. >It's not that big of a deal really, once you learn what you need to >know. You'll need a launchpad account, and a development release >install >to do the coding. Testing can be done either on a separate testing >partition, or on a Virtual Machine. Both could be virtual, if you >like. >Here's something I wrote about getting started >https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupDeveloperEnvironment > >-- >Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list >Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013, at 08:35 PM, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: > Surely there are more people who want to make US work with any > particular desktop than there are desktops! I did the Cinnamon work > myself > for the legacy desktop, simply so I could use it Have all the necessary > files to > make it work. Only hassle is that the Cinnamon menus for some reason > ignore the > UbuntuStudio A/V submenus, instead putting all the A/V apps into "sound > and video" > no matter what you do in the menu editor. The submenus show up in the > menu editor, > so my guess it its just a Cinnamon bug that will eventually be taken care > of. > > Anyone else wants to use Cinnamon in UbuntuStudio, I have what you need > at least for the legacy themes, can send out tar.gz files. > > I recommend it only for relatively powerful machines with modern graphics > cards > and multicore processors. All this stuff works with MATE, too, been > there, tested that. > It will run on slower machines, but Cinnamon get sluggish, especially in > the menu, on > Pentium 4 or Intel Atom. This is inherited from the upstream gnome-shell > it seems. > If you like, you can work at adding a Cinnamon based meta for Ubuntu Studio. It's not that big of a deal really, once you learn what you need to know. You'll need a launchpad account, and a development release install to do the coding. Testing can be done either on a separate testing partition, or on a Virtual Machine. Both could be virtual, if you like. Here's something I wrote about getting started https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupDeveloperEnvironment -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
I heard Kdenlive has 30+ developers, meaning it would be a full-time job or more for one person to write another video editor as capable as Kdenlive from scratch. This kind of collaboration makes FOSS programs or of course the whole OS distros possible. With enough people each working a small part of the problem as a hobby or because they just plain need to use it, the job gets done. Example: Someone on the MLT project managed to write code to use GLSL shader language directly, bypassing all that OpenCL development that is nowhere near done for open drivers. Shotcut, which is based on GPU Compute, can now use that code, and also gives excellent OpenGL playback of XML files generated by Kdenlive. I doubt it will be long before the new MLT capablities exposed by Shotcut find their way into Kdenlive. If not, Shotcut can do things Kdenlive can't do yet, such as good interpolation of clips shot at too low a framerate. On the other hand, Shotcut works more like Avidemux than an NLE, so I only know how to use it on individual clips, a finished render or on one of Kdenlive's XML project tiles. If the Shotcut and Kdenlive teams ever merged, I suspect one hell of a video editor would come from that mating, one as good as anything on the market. The real hard work for GPU computer has already been done, after all. Needless to say, Kdenlive, Shotcut, MLT, and ffmpeg/avconv are all free projects! On 05/23/2013 at 5:21 AM, "Ralf Mardorf" wrote: > >Programming NLVE is very time consuming, IOW expensive, so it's >hard to >do for free. There is NLVE software for Windows and OsX machines >that >already can be used with averaged home PCs. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013, at 08:48 PM, Mike Holstein wrote: > On May 23, 2013 2:35 PM, wrote: > > > > Surely there are more people who want to make US work with any > > particular desktop > > I have always just used the applications with whatever DE I have > wanted... > Ubuntu studio uses xfce. That is what we mostly test for. There is > nothing > we do that should prevent the packages from working with whatever to want > to use. I'll try and look more closely at this thread, but, what is the > issue? It should be as simple as installing the applications you want to > use. Think of it this way... Install what you want.. Kubuntu, for > example.. > It Ubuntu and add KDE... Install what specific apps you want. Then, you > are > not using Ubuntu studio... You are using the audio/video applications you > want with the DE you want. You can take advantage of the Ubuntu/Ubuntu > studio packages with whatever you want. You are welcome and encouraged to > do so... But, you are not running Ubuntu studio at that point. Still, it > should be as easy as installing what you want and configuring... What are > the specific issues that are preventing that? Cheers! > Recently, we have begun work on looking at if we can add more desktop metas to our set of installable meta packages. Nothing decided yet, and nothing ready to even try out so far. The Gnome desktop seems not usable at this stage in saucy. KDE is planned. Both LXDE and Unity have been talked about. The idea is that if we do offer more than one choice, XFCE will be the default, but the user can choose another DE during installation. Each DE needs a developer. So, if no one is interested in doing a Unity variant, for instance, then there won't be one. Right now, we have people working at enabling Gnome3 and KDE. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On May 23, 2013 2:35 PM, wrote: > > Surely there are more people who want to make US work with any > particular desktop I have always just used the applications with whatever DE I have wanted... Ubuntu studio uses xfce. That is what we mostly test for. There is nothing we do that should prevent the packages from working with whatever to want to use. I'll try and look more closely at this thread, but, what is the issue? It should be as simple as installing the applications you want to use. Think of it this way... Install what you want.. Kubuntu, for example.. It Ubuntu and add KDE... Install what specific apps you want. Then, you are not using Ubuntu studio... You are using the audio/video applications you want with the DE you want. You can take advantage of the Ubuntu/Ubuntu studio packages with whatever you want. You are welcome and encouraged to do so... But, you are not running Ubuntu studio at that point. Still, it should be as easy as installing what you want and configuring... What are the specific issues that are preventing that? Cheers! than there are desktops! I did the Cinnamon work myself > for the legacy desktop, simply so I could use it Have all the necessary files to > make it work. Only hassle is that the Cinnamon menus for some reason ignore the > UbuntuStudio A/V submenus, instead putting all the A/V apps into "sound and video" > no matter what you do in the menu editor. The submenus show up in the menu editor, > so my guess it its just a Cinnamon bug that will eventually be taken care of. > > Anyone else wants to use Cinnamon in UbuntuStudio, I have what you need > at least for the legacy themes, can send out tar.gz files. > > I recommend it only for relatively powerful machines with modern graphics cards > and multicore processors. All this stuff works with MATE, too, been there, tested that. > It will run on slower machines, but Cinnamon get sluggish, especially in the menu, on > Pentium 4 or Intel Atom. This is inherited from the upstream gnome-shell it seems. > > On 05/23/2013 at 12:17 PM, "Kaj Ailomaa" wrote: > > > >> One thing that you might notice though, reading these posts is > >that > >> though many people have opinions on how to develop Ubuntu > >Studio, few of > >> the people actually are doing it. And this is a very important > >point. > >> > >> If you want something done, you can actually do it yourself. And > >that's > >> how you participate. > >> > > > >Just want to quickly add, that of course giving feedback and > >opinions is > >a very valid way to participate also, but if you want to be able to > >influence the development of Ubuntu Studio - the best way is to > >get down > >and dirty with it yourself. Just badly worded on my part. > > > >-- > >Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list > >Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > > > -- > Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list > Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Surely there are more people who want to make US work with any particular desktop than there are desktops! I did the Cinnamon work myself for the legacy desktop, simply so I could use it Have all the necessary files to make it work. Only hassle is that the Cinnamon menus for some reason ignore the UbuntuStudio A/V submenus, instead putting all the A/V apps into "sound and video" no matter what you do in the menu editor. The submenus show up in the menu editor, so my guess it its just a Cinnamon bug that will eventually be taken care of. Anyone else wants to use Cinnamon in UbuntuStudio, I have what you need at least for the legacy themes, can send out tar.gz files. I recommend it only for relatively powerful machines with modern graphics cards and multicore processors. All this stuff works with MATE, too, been there, tested that. It will run on slower machines, but Cinnamon get sluggish, especially in the menu, on Pentium 4 or Intel Atom. This is inherited from the upstream gnome-shell it seems. On 05/23/2013 at 12:17 PM, "Kaj Ailomaa" wrote: > >> One thing that you might notice though, reading these posts is >that >> though many people have opinions on how to develop Ubuntu >Studio, few of >> the people actually are doing it. And this is a very important >point. >> >> If you want something done, you can actually do it yourself. And >that's >> how you participate. >> > >Just want to quickly add, that of course giving feedback and >opinions is >a very valid way to participate also, but if you want to be able to >influence the development of Ubuntu Studio - the best way is to >get down >and dirty with it yourself. Just badly worded on my part. > >-- >Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list >Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
> One thing that you might notice though, reading these posts is that > though many people have opinions on how to develop Ubuntu Studio, few of > the people actually are doing it. And this is a very important point. > > If you want something done, you can actually do it yourself. And that's > how you participate. > Just want to quickly add, that of course giving feedback and opinions is a very valid way to participate also, but if you want to be able to influence the development of Ubuntu Studio - the best way is to get down and dirty with it yourself. Just badly worded on my part. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Jimmy Sjölund wrote: > On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:32 PM, Kaj Ailomaa wrote > > > > > > It's just a fact. Ubuntu Studio is not a only a pro audio orientated > > distribution. We currently have "audio", "video", "graphics", > > "publishing" and "photography" as our range of workflows. You may check > > out this to read more about that http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/ > > > > The job for Ubuntu Studio has never been to be a customized distribution > > for pro audio. Rather, the idea of Ubuntu Studio from the start has been > > to be an example - a showcase, of what regular Ubuntu can do, with a > > nice selection of multimedia applications, configurations - and since > > linux-generic doesn't cut it, we have linux-lowlatency in its place. > > > > If what you want is a hardcore pro audio orientated distribution, for > > example something based on Ubuntu, where some applications have been > > patched - in other words, recoded, then KXStudio is a much better > > choice. KXStudio is a custom distro in this way. Ubuntu Studio is not, > > and doesn't try to be. > > > > > That I fully understand, I never wrote or expected US to be "audio only". > I > believe the strength is that is is all those things. What I wondered was > why it wouldn't be "pro". I also added that the audio parts was the only > thing I have some knowledge about which is why I only commented about > those > parts. > And thanks for the somewhat condescending link to the tour of Ubuntu > Studio. I have been using US since 8.04 and yeah perhaps I don't watch > the > whole tour every time I upgrade. I wasn't intending to be condescending. From how you worded it, it seemed to me you viewed Ubuntu Studio as a pro audio distribution, which of course is one of the aspects of what it is. > > I'm a bit confused by the showcase remark. To follow that thread once you > have seen what you can do with regular Ubuntu, you should then move to > regular Ubuntu and the US work is done? I have been looking at Ubuntu > Studio as its own distribution, not a commercial for regular Ubuntu. The work that we do is to make the distro suitable for multimedia content creation, and push changes upstream. Meaning, we make the change not only in Ubuntu Studio, but in this order - 1. The upstream application, 2. Debian, 3. Ubuntu 4. Ubuntu Studio. The more upstream the change is, the more people will benefit from it. Let's also draw a line between two words: Canonical, and Ubuntu. They are not the same thing. Ubuntu Studio is Ubuntu, just like all flavors are Ubuntu, including "Ubuntu" itself. Ubuntu Studio is not working at promoting Canonical. What Ubuntu Studio does is promotes free software based on Debian, where the system base is maintained by Canonical (the "main" repository). All of the Ubuntu Studio specific source is in the "universe" repository, which is community maintained. That means us, you and me. > > > > The > > DE doesn't have that much of an impact on performance most of the time. > > This may have more to do with graphic drivers and desktop FX. > > > > I notice a big difference in performance on my laptop at least, depending > on what DE I use. > > > > > > > > Not being able to code I don't know how to contribute even though I > > > really > > > would like to? Other than participating in the mailing list that is. > > > > > > > You don't need to know how to code in order to help. Coding is not the > > main thing we do. Just read http://ubuntustudio.org/contribute/ > > > Which I did, that's how I found this mailing list. But from what I seen > so > far it's not really inviting to try do more, so perhaps after 5 years of > US > I will look into KXstudio on another platform instead. Why is that? Because we discuss things openly, and encourage users to participate in a very non elitist way - suggesting that you don't actually need to know anything to help out, and that you have the freedom to work independently, as long as you aren't breaking anything for anyone else? Or is it just that you find my answer to your post discouraging? You may find me speaking not very diplomatically at times, but that has no effect on the development of Ubuntu Studio as long as you realize it's just a tone of voice, nothing else. I may not be the most diplomatic voice in the community, but I do try to stick to fairness and truth. I'm also working very hard to get more people involved. As a project leader of Ubuntu Studio, my goal is not to develop the OS for my own needs - I use Debian with Gnome3 and a custom kernel myself. My goal is to make it work for everyone. Not everyone works from this aspect. Most are more interested in working at things that benefit themselves more directly. This is quite ok. There's room for every kind of personality, and choice of interest - as long as it doesn't break things for other people. One thing that you might notice though, reading these posts is that though many people have opinions on how
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, May 23, 2013 12:21 am, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 23.05.2013 06:17, schrieb Len Ovens: >>> It should be easier to disable PA to a near-removed status though >> >> Unload module-jackdbus-detect: >> pactl unload-module module-jackdbus-detect >> >> PA still takes up memory, but uses almost no cpu without that module. > > The CPU-load would be tolerable, the problem is, what PA+dbus do at > startup. Is there a way to blacklist interfaces? Some command like : "PA > do not touch that device!"? Yes, run pavucontrol, select the last tab (configuration?) select the card you want PA to leave alone and turn it's "profile" to OFF. Counter intuitively, I turn off the cards Jack is not going to want to use as I have found that the PA-jack bridge links the two cards. In other words, if PA uses the internal HDA (mine does not do good low latency due to HW problems) and Jack is using my USB IF, the problems I would have with the HDA, show up on the USB. The PA-Jack bridge forces PA to try to do the same latency as jack. I am not sure if that is clear. The thing to remember is that they do interact when bridged. This is not really a bug any more than the fact that a trailer will affect the way your car drives. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 12:58, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:19 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >>> However, the work flow to make a home video in a Roland Emmerich >>> style, does differ to making a home video in a Jim Jarmusch style. >> The latter is much easier, that is correct. > > JFTR that's what I want to point out, the Jim Jarmusch style _regarding > to film editing_ is easier to do (regarding to the needed software and > assumed the cutter has got the creative abilities), possible to do at > home. OTOH I never experienced something like Cinellerra as usable for > doing this, since it does crash and I never heard before that it should > be that stable. > > Regarding to other aspects, e.g. the lighting engineering it's > impossible to make a Jim Jarmusch style film. > > The same for music, it's possible to record e.g. classical music with > Linux, but nearly impossible to make a top ten chart song, you at least > need stand alone gear that does provide that simply isn't available for > Linux. But Tocotronic *are* Top 10 and they recorded on a 4-trac, no MIDI, no synths and for sure no auto-tune. Just a Band playing in front of good microphones. And regrding the top-10 electronica-stuff you may have in mind: these are nt recorded with Linux because the industry waorks with products from the industry, not because it would be impossible. Give, you have singers, that do not need to be autotuned. People buy songs and right there in the Pop-singlecharts technical sound-quality standards matter even less than in the realm of real music. Any catchy melody, a grooving bass, a working dance-beat and lots of loudness make a recording, that can be made a hit by applying some 2-3 Millions USD for video/promo/advertizing. There is not technical power behind top-10 recording best regards HZN > > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:54 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 23.05.2013 12:47, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > > On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:19 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > >> Some of the greatest recordings of the last 20 years where recorded > >> onto analogue tape, some on 4-track machines, some even on 2-track. > >> > >> All much less than a Linux-computer with a Hammerfall running Ardour. > > > > My 4-Track was much better, than my current Hammerfall Linux machine > > is :(. I hope this will change in the near future. > > You cannot even record 4 discrete tracks with your Hammerfall with more > than 14bit? Sad thing indeed > > ;-) I can do this, but ... - with huge latency - always the risk to get audible xruns (at least more often than I got audible drop outs for the 4-track) - sync between MIDI equipment and audio recordings can't compare to sync by SMPTE (Atari ST) or even click (C64). Qtractor for example even is very coarse regarding to latency compensation for the audio recordings. And FWIW I still only can use 2 of the 8 ADAT channels. Yesterday I tested all 8 ADAT IOs on Windows again. I know how to use TotalMix. The 8 ADAT channels aren't available for Linux. I only can use the 2 analog IOs and 2 ADAT IOs. It's said that I'm an annoying idiot, this should be untrue, I'm a liar ... blabla ... but this is what happens here. Nobody who dissed me is willing to send me a mixer file that does work with the 8 ADAT channels on their machines, when using the same card ;). Isn't this unsocial? However, I'll take a look again, if I make something wrong with TotalMix for Linux, since the last two years I own the card. I installed Windows some days ago and already was able, within seconds, to use TotalMix Windows. The two versions are different! So it might be, that I'm doing something wrong. I should stop mailing now, make my office work and then test the card, at least if the sample frequencies will work using the hint I got yesterday. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:19 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > > However, the work flow to make a home video in a Roland Emmerich > > style, does differ to making a home video in a Jim Jarmusch style. > The latter is much easier, that is correct. JFTR that's what I want to point out, the Jim Jarmusch style _regarding to film editing_ is easier to do (regarding to the needed software and assumed the cutter has got the creative abilities), possible to do at home. OTOH I never experienced something like Cinellerra as usable for doing this, since it does crash and I never heard before that it should be that stable. Regarding to other aspects, e.g. the lighting engineering it's impossible to make a Jim Jarmusch style film. The same for music, it's possible to record e.g. classical music with Linux, but nearly impossible to make a top ten chart song, you at least need stand alone gear that does provide that simply isn't available for Linux. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 12:47, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:19 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Some of the greatest recordings of the last 20 years where recorded >> onto analogue tape, some on 4-track machines, some even on 2-track. >> >> All much less than a Linux-computer with a Hammerfall running Ardour. > > My 4-Track was much better, than my current Hammerfall Linux machine > is :(. I hope this will change in the near future. You cannot even record 4 discrete tracks with your Hammerfall with more than 14bit? Sad thing indeed ;-) > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 12:19 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Some of the greatest recordings of the last 20 years where recorded > onto analogue tape, some on 4-track machines, some even on 2-track. > > All much less than a Linux-computer with a Hammerfall running Ardour. My 4-Track was much better, than my current Hammerfall Linux machine is :(. I hope this will change in the near future. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 11:20, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > > "Valid" for home usage does mean to be able to edit a video with a > professional work flow, without crashing all the times etc. pp.. This describes what I do occasionally for many hours without any crashes with KDEnlive. Regarding the professional workflow that is in fact just the usual workflow I presented both CinelerraCV and KDEnlive to a filmmaker, who is a friend of mine. He makes Movies for Cinema and TV, has studied it to the full at Babelsberg. He told me, that both programs work fine for him as long as cutting is concerned. He also told me, that the material edited in these Programs would need to be processed on more professional gear for toning/retouching the lighting. He also told me, that he never ever would consider to do the latter on his Mac, thats a job for dedicated workstations he stated apodyctically. And he was quite impressed how much one can do for the soundtrack when working with Xjadeo and Ardour. > > Btw. the myths that Blender is everything that's needed to make 3D > animations is also nonsense. In addition not only a NLVE is missing, but > also some other options, e.g. automatically lip sync (at least it was > missing, I don't know if they have included it yet). Try to find out, what other NLVE was used in making the Blender Movies, especially Mango: I fail to find those tools in the project description: http://mango.blender.org/about/ They only mention free software on Linux, though shamefully get the music from "external sources" that use whatever else > > AFAIK Blender can be and is used for professional and good home videos, > but it's just one production tool of many production tools. It is used to produce full-fledged Motion Pictures that look much more professional than many commercial Movies released on DVD. > > Unlikely that I'll have that kind of films you're talking about. If I > watch films made in the USA, than more or less only films from people > like the Coen brothers, Jim Jarmusch etc. and I usually don't own those > films on DVDs or any other media. But again, first of all it's a myth > that many films were produced using Linux only Feel free to believe, what you was programmed to believe(to have a Futurama-Quote at last in this thread ;-) ) > and second, I'm talking > about software that, with certain qualifications, can be used at home, > at least with "better" home PCs. Try KDEnlive, just as is, without all the tweaking, it just works. > For me > claims that Linux is professional, is the more out of reason for people > who prefer averaged Hollywood movies, In terms of craft Avatar or LOTR or Cloud Atlas are the reference. No country for old men is a reference too for its genuine 80ies feel but many movies like Ghost Dog and the like have their qualities in photography, play, script and so on, in technical terms they are simple. If you have a photographer, actors and script in the league of Ghost Dog or Blue in the face you can make such movies and cut them on Linux with free software. > averaged chart music. > For the kind > of art I like to do, at least for music, I can use Linux, but for people > who want to do this mainstream stuff, all the tools are missing. We for > example don't have auto-tune for Linux. You talk about the middle-class, not the top-notch. The latter care for songs, skill and personality of musicians, concepts and ideas to produce albums that last. And the technical aspect how to record comes last. Some of the greatest recordings of the last 20 years where recorded onto analogue tape, some on 4-track machines, some even on 2-track. All much less than a Linux-computer with a Hammerfall running Ardour. > > Back to the topic ;). I guess KDE 4 can be used to provide a sane work > flow for audio production, but Unity and GNOME 3 don't provide a common > work flow for this task. Xfce, LXDE, KDE = sane. Unity, e17 and GNOME 3 > = insane. Insane is a bit harsh but the wording aside I agree. > > However, the work flow to make a home video in a Roland Emmerich style, > does differ to making a home video in a Jim Jarmusch style. The latter is much easier, that is correct. > The same for > audio, e.g. The Black Eyed Peas differ a lot to Motor City Hardrock from > the 70s. Different musicians, working differently, that is all. The flexibility to provide the fitting workflow is in the producer, not in his/her software. Rockbands still work today, in new ways and in the old ways alike, many of the best "70ies-Rock" Albums are made in the last 5 years. And of course they do not use Ardour. Because Ardour on Linux is not a product. Mixbus is one, and so it is used. That is the difference: not quality, reliability or flexibility, The question is just: is it a product that is acclaimed in the industry. And: is there a product with even more acclamation (got Sequoia, but Protools could be more of a product right?). best regards HZN > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Programming NLVE is very time consuming, IOW expensive, so it's hard to do for free. There is NLVE software for Windows and OsX machines that already can be used with averaged home PCs. "Valid" for home usage does mean to be able to edit a video with a professional work flow, without crashing all the times etc. pp.. Btw. the myths that Blender is everything that's needed to make 3D animations is also nonsense. In addition not only a NLVE is missing, but also some other options, e.g. automatically lip sync (at least it was missing, I don't know if they have included it yet). AFAIK Blender can be and is used for professional and good home videos, but it's just one production tool of many production tools. Unlikely that I'll have that kind of films you're talking about. If I watch films made in the USA, than more or less only films from people like the Coen brothers, Jim Jarmusch etc. and I usually don't own those films on DVDs or any other media. But again, first of all it's a myth that many films were produced using Linux only and second, I'm talking about software that, with certain qualifications, can be used at home, at least with "better" home PCs. FWIW I never was in a professional studio using Linux only for audio, there might be a few studios, but it's still very unusual. That reminds me that I need to check my RME card on Linux again, since I got some hints, what I was doing wrong, when I tried to start jackd with sample rates > 48 KHZ. It's impossible to make this mistake on Windows ;). I'm sensible for the work flow, since I was an audio/video engineer in the analog and early computer area, when the machines were made to fit to the engineers work flow, nowadays a lot of computer people who claim to know professional work, don't have an idea what it really does mean. Often the computer doesn't fit to our needs, we need to fit to the computer's needs. For example, on Jack-devel somebody claims that it's a shame that Android can't be used for pro-audio, but iOS gear can be used to do it. He only was thinking about the software, but for professional audio work it's unlikely that a device as an iPad would be used, because you can't replace the batteries and because the switches are made to already fail for consumer usage. There's a sane way for home recording and making videos at home. There's a sane way for professional recording and making videos. I like to use Linux only at home and I never ever will work as a professional audio and video engineer again. I don't experience Linux as usable for professional work, but it doesn't matter for me. For me claims that Linux is professional, is the more out of reason for people who prefer averaged Hollywood movies, averaged chart music. For the kind of art I like to do, at least for music, I can use Linux, but for people who want to do this mainstream stuff, all the tools are missing. We for example don't have auto-tune for Linux. Back to the topic ;). I guess KDE 4 can be used to provide a sane work flow for audio production, but Unity and GNOME 3 don't provide a common work flow for this task. Xfce, LXDE, KDE = sane. Unity, e17 and GNOME 3 = insane. However, the work flow to make a home video in a Roland Emmerich style, does differ to making a home video in a Jim Jarmusch style. The same for audio, e.g. The Black Eyed Peas differ a lot to Motor City Hardrock from the 70s. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:32 PM, Kaj Ailomaa wrote > > > It's just a fact. Ubuntu Studio is not a only a pro audio orientated > distribution. We currently have "audio", "video", "graphics", > "publishing" and "photography" as our range of workflows. You may check > out this to read more about that http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/ > > The job for Ubuntu Studio has never been to be a customized distribution > for pro audio. Rather, the idea of Ubuntu Studio from the start has been > to be an example - a showcase, of what regular Ubuntu can do, with a > nice selection of multimedia applications, configurations - and since > linux-generic doesn't cut it, we have linux-lowlatency in its place. > > If what you want is a hardcore pro audio orientated distribution, for > example something based on Ubuntu, where some applications have been > patched - in other words, recoded, then KXStudio is a much better > choice. KXStudio is a custom distro in this way. Ubuntu Studio is not, > and doesn't try to be. > > That I fully understand, I never wrote or expected US to be "audio only". I believe the strength is that is is all those things. What I wondered was why it wouldn't be "pro". I also added that the audio parts was the only thing I have some knowledge about which is why I only commented about those parts. And thanks for the somewhat condescending link to the tour of Ubuntu Studio. I have been using US since 8.04 and yeah perhaps I don't watch the whole tour every time I upgrade. I'm a bit confused by the showcase remark. To follow that thread once you have seen what you can do with regular Ubuntu, you should then move to regular Ubuntu and the US work is done? I have been looking at Ubuntu Studio as its own distribution, not a commercial for regular Ubuntu. > The > DE doesn't have that much of an impact on performance most of the time. > This may have more to do with graphic drivers and desktop FX. > > I notice a big difference in performance on my laptop at least, depending on what DE I use. > > > > Not being able to code I don't know how to contribute even though I > > really > > would like to? Other than participating in the mailing list that is. > > > > You don't need to know how to code in order to help. Coding is not the > main thing we do. Just read http://ubuntustudio.org/contribute/ Which I did, that's how I found this mailing list. But from what I seen so far it's not really inviting to try do more, so perhaps after 5 years of US I will look into KXstudio on another platform instead. /Jimmy -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 06:17, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 3:52 pm, Hartmut Noack wrote: > > For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? >>> >>> Broadcast. It is good for remote content transport as suggested by the >>> EBU. They do not talk about pulseaudio specifically, but the methods >>> they >>> do suggest can at this time only be done that way. >>> >>> Pulseaudio is also good for use with client show and tell... the client >>> comes in and says, "I saw this thing on U tube..." I understand you have >>> had trouble with PA... Not that long ago it did have many problems. But >>> at >>> this time, I would say that a PA->jack bridge is easier to set up and >>> use >>> than ALSA loop backs. Also many of the MP3 players or CD playing SW do >>> not >>> play well with Jack. (I don't know any) >> >> That is my experience too. Once jack is started and the >> pulse-jack-bridge runs, all audio-trouble is gone. Any sane >> audio-application supports either Jack or PA automatically. And I cannot >> see, that the PA-bridge increases the rate of xruns(as of now I have >> zero of them while experimenting with Guitarix and Qtractor and watching >> YT-videos as well (*videos *with* audio that is...). >> >> It should be easier to disable PA to a near-removed status though > > Unload module-jackdbus-detect: > pactl unload-module module-jackdbus-detect > > PA still takes up memory, but uses almost no cpu without that module. The CPU-load would be tolerable, the problem is, what PA+dbus do at startup. Is there a way to blacklist interfaces? Some command like : "PA do not touch that device!"? best regards HZN > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 02:21, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > The only NLE software I know, that might work on "better Linux home > machines" and could do "valid" NLE, might be this > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightworks it's said that it was used for > the NLE of famous films. > > But where can we download the beta Linux version? Just register as a beta tester and subscribe some NDA and get your installer: http://www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=19&id=44717&Itemid=81 > > The Internet claims that the film "Avatar" was edited with Avid Media > Composer. I can't find a Linux version, but you can start using it home > machines based on Windows and Apple. > > I didn't watch the video and I don't know what was used for NLE to do > the Avatar film editing, but perhaps it was Avid: > > "Landau discusses the creative process behind the highest grossing film > in history and the numerous ways Avid film and video editing software > workflow facilitated 3D production." > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_RhRtP8-nI > > I can't verify if your claim or the information I found using Google on > the quick are right or wrong. What is your source of information about > video editing Hartmut? A short googling spawned for me: http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/dcp/news/linux-hollywood/44656 http://www.linuxmovies.org/2011/06/26/linux-movies-hollywood-loves-linux/ You may have some DVDs that include making of extras: check them out, see Linux run and the like on the Machines of Pixar, ILM and WetaWorkshop And yes indeed: they do not use KDEnlive or Cinelerra, they use Maya and more often they use their own inhouse software that is not being sold but kept confidential. And of course they use bloated desktops. Is there anything but the quite abstract word "valid" you could offer us to describe, what "your" NLVE software separates from any MELT-based Software, that offers exactly that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-linear_editing_system Maybe you did not read this paragraph in that: Quote Wikipedia: Since 2000, many personal computers include basic non-linear video editing software free of charge. This is the case of Apple iMovie for the Macintosh platform, various open source programs like Kdenlive and PiTiVi for the Linux platform, and Windows Movie Maker for the Windows platform. This phenomenon has brought low-cost non-linear editing to consumers. best regards HZN > > > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 3:52 pm, Hartmut Noack wrote: >>> For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video >>> creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? >> >> Broadcast. It is good for remote content transport as suggested by the >> EBU. They do not talk about pulseaudio specifically, but the methods >> they >> do suggest can at this time only be done that way. >> >> Pulseaudio is also good for use with client show and tell... the client >> comes in and says, "I saw this thing on U tube..." I understand you have >> had trouble with PA... Not that long ago it did have many problems. But >> at >> this time, I would say that a PA->jack bridge is easier to set up and >> use >> than ALSA loop backs. Also many of the MP3 players or CD playing SW do >> not >> play well with Jack. (I don't know any) > > That is my experience too. Once jack is started and the > pulse-jack-bridge runs, all audio-trouble is gone. Any sane > audio-application supports either Jack or PA automatically. And I cannot > see, that the PA-bridge increases the rate of xruns(as of now I have > zero of them while experimenting with Guitarix and Qtractor and watching > YT-videos as well (*videos *with* audio that is...). > > It should be easier to disable PA to a near-removed status though Unload module-jackdbus-detect: pactl unload-module module-jackdbus-detect PA still takes up memory, but uses almost no cpu without that module. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Kdenlive is a nonlinear video editor. I use it routinely for making news videos. Although I only publish the 720p versions over Liveleak, the archived 1080p versions are of good quality. I've never used any of the nonfree editors (lightworks included), so I can't compare it to them. Lightworks requires onlne activation, a line I never cross. On 05/22/2013 at 8:22 PM, "Ralf Mardorf" wrote: > >The only NLE software I know, that might work on "better Linux home >machines" and could do "valid" NLE, might be this >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightworks it's said that it was used >for >the NLE of famous films. > >But where can we download the beta Linux version? > >The Internet claims that the film "Avatar" was edited with Avid >Media >Composer. I can't find a Linux version, but you can start using it >home >machines based on Windows and Apple. > >I didn't watch the video and I don't know what was used for NLE to >do >the Avatar film editing, but perhaps it was Avid: > >"Landau discusses the creative process behind the highest grossing >film >in history and the numerous ways Avid film and video editing >software >workflow facilitated 3D production." > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_RhRtP8-nI > >I can't verify if your claim or the information I found using >Google on >the quick are right or wrong. What is your source of information >about >video editing Hartmut? > > > > > >-- >Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list >Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
The only NLE software I know, that might work on "better Linux home machines" and could do "valid" NLE, might be this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightworks it's said that it was used for the NLE of famous films. But where can we download the beta Linux version? The Internet claims that the film "Avatar" was edited with Avid Media Composer. I can't find a Linux version, but you can start using it home machines based on Windows and Apple. I didn't watch the video and I don't know what was used for NLE to do the Avatar film editing, but perhaps it was Avid: "Landau discusses the creative process behind the highest grossing film in history and the numerous ways Avid film and video editing software workflow facilitated 3D production." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_RhRtP8-nI I can't verify if your claim or the information I found using Google on the quick are right or wrong. What is your source of information about video editing Hartmut? -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 01:51 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 01:16 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > > Am 23.05.2013 00:39, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > > > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > > >> If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do > > >> anything qjackctl can do > > > > > > I prefer aj-snapshot, but IIRC even aj-snapshot can't provide everything > > > you can do using qjackctl. > > > > > > Card 0: RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf, irq 1 > > > Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 > > > Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 > > > > > > The two TerraTec cards are used as MIDI interfaces. How can I connect > > > them automagically to the same software IOs, each time I launch a script > > > to start a session? > > > > OFFLIST: die Patchbay von Qjackctl kann das. Man kann sogar mit > > regulären Ausdrücken nach Ports suchen lassen, die automatisch verbunden > > werden, sobald sie im System auftauchen. Wenn man die genauen Namen > > kennt, kann man es auch einfach zusammenklicken... > > Als ich das zuletzt mit QjackCtl versucht habe, musste ich das manuell > machen, da die Karten automatisch nicht unterschieden werden konnten. > Jedenfalls stimme ich zu, dass QjackCtl, soweit ich weiß, dass am > wahrscheinlichsten können könnte. >^^ Das sehen Deutschlehrer wahrscheinlich > gar nicht gerne :D. That wasn't off-list *lol*. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 01:16 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 23.05.2013 00:39, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > >> If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do > >> anything qjackctl can do > > > > I prefer aj-snapshot, but IIRC even aj-snapshot can't provide everything > > you can do using qjackctl. > > > > Card 0: RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf, irq 1 > > Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 > > Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 > > > > The two TerraTec cards are used as MIDI interfaces. How can I connect > > them automagically to the same software IOs, each time I launch a script > > to start a session? > > OFFLIST: die Patchbay von Qjackctl kann das. Man kann sogar mit > regulären Ausdrücken nach Ports suchen lassen, die automatisch verbunden > werden, sobald sie im System auftauchen. Wenn man die genauen Namen > kennt, kann man es auch einfach zusammenklicken... Als ich das zuletzt mit QjackCtl versucht habe, musste ich das manuell machen, da die Karten automatisch nicht unterschieden werden konnten. Jedenfalls stimme ich zu, dass QjackCtl, soweit ich weiß, dass am wahrscheinlichsten können könnte. ^^ Das sehen Deutschlehrer wahrscheinlich gar nicht gerne :D. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 01:25, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 00:52 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Anything beyond that such as video for the web can be done and is done >> in Linux for years now. Have a look at the Blender-Movies, if you >> really believe, only vacation-reels can be made in Linux. > > You're mistaken, AFAIK valid NLVE I am not really sure, what "valid" non linear video editing could be. If I see a video made with KDEnlive or Blender I only see a video, not KDEnlive or Blender or AVID or anything. A video is a sequence of pictures accompanied with sound that look as if they are moving when played on a DVD-Player or in YouTube. Any entity that needs a video more "valid" than this will deploy a workstation. > can be done with proprietary software > on Apple and Microsoft based machines at home, but AFAIK there's still > no Linux software for doing this. There might be some unpayable Linux > software for NLVE available, I don't know. Must be, anyway all Hollywood blockbusters of the last 10 years are made on Linux-machines. But it could be, that Avatar, LOTR and the like are not really "valid". Seeing them still was some fun I regretfully admit. > > Do you have any NLVE for Linux in mind? > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 01:10 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > And that team is in charge, is it not? Thats why I ask you for help, > as I did in many other places too. My hope is, that you do know those > mages, who actually can fix the trouble and that you can point them to > that problem and make them fix it. Because you are the team, that > officially makes Ubuntu Studio, not only a anonymous single user out > there. The issue is upstream, they make the most of the decisions, package maintains often can't solve that easily. Report the bugs you experience and the wishes you have to upstream. You shouldn't do this, if you should be thin-skinned. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 23:22, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 12:25 am, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: >>> This is an interesting project. >> >> To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for >> installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, >> if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name >> it. >> >> So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point >> your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting >> too: >> >> >> Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with >> priority 10 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path >> "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already >> registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 >> error : A handler is already registered for >> /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server >> >> >> To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported >> hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing >> to be achieved I dare to think. > > Thankyou for your comment. I can not work on your problem for a number of > reasons. The first being that with two computers and 5 different audio > interfaces, I have not had that problem. So for me to work on it, you > would have to ship your system to me so I can "work on it". You do not need to fix it, I would consider it a major improvement and call you a sage, if you could only tell me, what could be the actual reason for it. I suspect, that I could find a way to fix it myself and share this fix with the world if I only would know wehre exactly to begin I was even grepping thru /etc in the faint hope to find that config-file that has something related to that message. It is a part of PA, so much I did find out: http://git.0pointer.de/?p=reserve.git;a=blob;f=reserve.txt so it is PA in collaboration with dbus. Do you know a place, where I can find the documentation how dbus is configured to run PA in Ubuntu? > And if it > turned out that this was an upstream problem, I would have to ship your > system (or sound card) upstream to someone who was willing to work on it. You know and I know, that this has nothing to do with my hardware. I run this gear all day perfectly OK once I have started it by un/replugging the interface several times. And I can reproduce the problem at will. It is a matter of software, software-setup I guess. > Second, I am not a coder. I can do shell script (bash, tcl/tk and some > python) and a bit of c, so long as time is not a consideration... in other > words I would not even try to look at real time coding or anything that > needed special libs. That stuff right now is beyond me. C++ just doesn't > make sense to me, I can use some of the GUI stuff by following examples, > but I don't really understand what I am doing. Third, this is not a paid > position. That is not how community projects work. If this was a > commercial project, the first thing that would happen is they would hire > someone better than me. Second that person would have specific goals such > as you ask. But in the community based project, volunteers look around for > what they can do and what interests them and do it. That is what I am > doing. I do also do ISO and install testing as well as some (very little > right now) recording. So I know that for my systems jack (and pulse) both > work. Speaking of community, as you are a part of it and have a special > interest in the problem you have, perhaps you should start there. What > some of us can do is help you understand where to start, and what steps to > take. (welcome to the team) > >> Ahhh: OK, OK: if you can *promise*, that you can make the above >> mentioned failed to start kind of thing disappeare for good, I would >> provide a nice US-Menu and some documentation too for running US under >> KDE. And half a dozen Wallpapers > > How much are you willing to pay for this service? For these promises? Ohhh sorry for that I thought delivering a working system was your promise anyway, I only asked for a promise to not forget that. > How > much of a wage are you willing to pay so that we can hire some coders to > fix your problems? This is a volunteer project, we are happy when people > do something productive that moves the project forward. Last time I checked, reporting bugs was considered something to move a project forward. So I expose to you my bug, you crush it, get the fun and the fame. To increase the motivation I am willing to work for you by providing a solution for you latest project: runnin
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 00:52 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Anything beyond that such as video for the web can be done and is done > in Linux for years now. Have a look at the Blender-Movies, if you > really believe, only vacation-reels can be made in Linux. You're mistaken, AFAIK valid NLVE can be done with proprietary software on Apple and Microsoft based machines at home, but AFAIK there's still no Linux software for doing this. There might be some unpayable Linux software for NLVE available, I don't know. Do you have any NLVE for Linux in mind? -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 00:39, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: >> If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do >> anything qjackctl can do > > I prefer aj-snapshot, but IIRC even aj-snapshot can't provide everything > you can do using qjackctl. > > Card 0: RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf, irq 1 > Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 > Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 > > The two TerraTec cards are used as MIDI interfaces. How can I connect > them automagically to the same software IOs, each time I launch a script > to start a session? OFFLIST: die Patchbay von Qjackctl kann das. Man kann sogar mit regulären Ausdrücken nach Ports suchen lassen, die automatisch verbunden werden, sobald sie im System auftauchen. Wenn man die genauen Namen kennt, kann man es auch einfach zusammenklicken... bis bald HZN > > AFAIK I need to connect them using QjackCtl manually. Perhaps it can be > done with the alsa equivalent to jack_control, but perhaps it's > impossible, AFAIR aj-snapshot can't do it and QjackCtl can't do it > automagically, I didn't use them for a long time, often I remove the > envy24 driver and use the RME card only. > > > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 23:28, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 11:09 am, Eric Hedekar wrote: >> However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that this >> is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. > > If it is what is within the "developers" capabilities and interests, why not? > > remember none of us are paid for any of this. Also think what you would do > if any time you started to work on something as a volunteer and people > told you don't do that do this that you can't do... you would walk away. I was hoping, that I have stated my point in a sane manner, maybe my anger gave it a slightely rantish flavour, for this I apologize. Anyway, I do know, that there are not many people, who can fix the real trouble makers. Sad but true, and I am not capable of fixing it also. > We are trying to build this team. And that team is in charge, is it not? Thats why I ask you for help, as I did in many other places too. My hope is, that you do know those mages, who actually can fix the trouble and that you can point them to that problem and make them fix it. Because you are the team, that officially makes Ubuntu Studio, not only a anonymous single user out there. > We do that by encouraging people in what > they do and the progress they are able to do in the areas they are good > at. This is not a sweatshop. Imagine, you would be a rock band about to record an album, would you not be better off practicing you own complicated songs over and over rather than play some cover songs just for the fun of it? US is your song, your album and your fans will decide, how good your practicing has been. best regards HZN > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Thu, 2013-05-23 at 00:37 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > So that is the philosophy you read behind making a Desktop that > depends on 3d-accelleration. Interesting. No, I only said what's the philosophy of Ubuntu, I wasn't talking about my philosophy: "System requirements The system requirements vary among Ubuntu products. For the main Ubuntu desktop product, the official Ubuntu Documentation recommends a 1 GHz Pentium 4 processor with 512 megabytes of RAM and 5 gigabytes of hard drive space, or better.[46] For less powerful computers, there are other Ubuntu distributions such as Lubuntu and Xubuntu." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28operating_system%29#System_requirements You can't make all kinds of audio/MIDI productions with a bloated DE and 512 GiB only. You better use Xubuntu. At the moment I'm running $ cat /etc/issue Arch Linux \r (\l) since I have got needs that don't fit that good to the policy of Ubuntu. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 23.05.2013 00:20, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 2:49 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 14:34 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: >>> Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: >>> >> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's >>> for >> all multimedia content creation. > > I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? >>> Real >>> >>> :) I think the intent of the remark is that ubuntustudio is not "only" >>> a >>> pro audio distro. Certainly I think it can be used that way, but it's >>> aim >>> is also to be a pro graphic studio and a pro photographers studio and a >>> pro video creation tool. Hopefully the user will soon be able to choose >>> just to install one of these workflows rather than all of them. >> >> I always remove pulseaudio and build a kernel-rt. The differences to the >> full preempt kernel with threadirqs isn't important, but removing >> pulseaudio is important. >> >> For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video >> creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? > > Broadcast. It is good for remote content transport as suggested by the > EBU. They do not talk about pulseaudio specifically, but the methods they > do suggest can at this time only be done that way. > > Pulseaudio is also good for use with client show and tell... the client > comes in and says, "I saw this thing on U tube..." I understand you have > had trouble with PA... Not that long ago it did have many problems. But at > this time, I would say that a PA->jack bridge is easier to set up and use > than ALSA loop backs. Also many of the MP3 players or CD playing SW do not > play well with Jack. (I don't know any) That is my experience too. Once jack is started and the pulse-jack-bridge runs, all audio-trouble is gone. Any sane audio-application supports either Jack or PA automatically. And I cannot see, that the PA-bridge increases the rate of xruns(as of now I have zero of them while experimenting with Guitarix and Qtractor and watching YT-videos as well (*videos *with* audio that is...). It should be easier to disable PA to a near-removed status though > > If any of these people are using their computer for a telephone... all the > phone apps work with Pulse, none (at this time) work with jack. > >> >> From video creation I would remove the word "professional" ;p. > > That was why I used the word "Aim" Our aim is to have Studio be > professional quality in all these areas. What we need most are people who > are involved professionally in video to join our community and make their > own system based on studio work for profession audio so we can import the > changes. I know the tech aspects of video (at least analogue :), but I am > not a video person, my interest is not visual everything looks good to > me unless it is really bad. Not sure, if that works soo good for every good thing can be improved and should be ;-) but regarding video: anyone, who edits a video that shall be used at least semi-commercial, does professional video work. If we talk about Cinema-Movies or professional TV-Shows, we do not talk about normal PC anymore. Even the cheaper TV-shows are still produced on dedicated workstations, let alone Films. Anything beyond that such as video for the web can be done and is done in Linux for years now. Have a look at the Blender-Movies, if you really believe, only vacation-reels can be made in Linux. Ahh yeah: and these workstations usually run Linux too... > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 3:37 pm, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Anyway *my* philosophy is, that a free operating system should offer the > means to tweak it to run on lesser hardware too but there is absolutely > no point in expecting an anachronistic Computer on the desk of a Linux > user. In fact I find that "philosophy" dubious: who says, that anyone, > who can afford a 1000E-Laptop will *not* be a Linux-user? Do you think, > that Linux is the system for the poor? Do you think, that Linux is the > system for the old PC, that cannot run Windows8? Only a few years ago, there was a large number of people who did that, use a machine that wasn't good enough for windows. However as you have pointed out that is no longer true. My desktop computer is 10 years old or so (P4) and still works fine for recording multi-track audio. In fact there are people having more problems with new HW than I do. My piggy bank is in no shaoe to buy new HW, but I have been looking at where I want to go when I can. I will start from the MB and build. I will be looking for a MB and cpu that is good for low latency, something speed and memory do not guarantee. In fact, low latency can slow a computer through put down. For example, I get lower latency by turning hyperthreading off. The desktop is a little slower, but I can get <1ms latency thought jack without xruns with guitarix running. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do > anything qjackctl can do I prefer aj-snapshot, but IIRC even aj-snapshot can't provide everything you can do using qjackctl. Card 0: RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf, irq 1 Card 1: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 Card 2: TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 The two TerraTec cards are used as MIDI interfaces. How can I connect them automagically to the same software IOs, each time I launch a script to start a session? AFAIK I need to connect them using QjackCtl manually. Perhaps it can be done with the alsa equivalent to jack_control, but perhaps it's impossible, AFAIR aj-snapshot can't do it and QjackCtl can't do it automagically, I didn't use them for a long time, often I remove the envy24 driver and use the RME card only. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 22:59, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 21:29 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> 8Gig RAM > > In a throw-away-society nearly every Microsoft and Apple fan has got > such computers. I will not apologize for not having anachronistic hardware. RAM is cheap, Computers are cheap, time is costly. I did not throw away a computer in the last 10 years. And I wont for at least another ten. I always found a way to make use of outdated gear and further I use to buy the best gear I can afford because such gear lasts longer. > Linux and especially Ubuntu have got another philosophy. > Computers with all that's needed for everybody, so much older gear must > be supported too. So that is the philosophy you read behind making a Desktop that depends on 3d-accelleration. Interesting. BTW: you may or may not have noticed, that I mentioned the other PC I got here. It was not the cheapest on shelf also but I have it running for about 6 years now with a new motherboard 4 years ago. The 3 Gig RAM it has I could easily upgrade to 8 too but I am not that motivated for it runs the same setup as my 8G Laptop nearly the same as good... KDE4+Ardour+Guitarix that is. And I can play Minecraft on it with 1480x1280 resolution fullscreen *while* Ardour is started in the back. Anyway *my* philosophy is, that a free operating system should offer the means to tweak it to run on lesser hardware too but there is absolutely no point in expecting an anachronistic Computer on the desk of a Linux user. In fact I find that "philosophy" dubious: who says, that anyone, who can afford a 1000E-Laptop will *not* be a Linux-user? Do you think, that Linux is the system for the poor? Do you think, that Linux is the system for the old PC, that cannot run Windows8? Linux is all this in fact, but is that all? Should a OS for the modern Desktop Computer not be comfortable and maybe even a bit fancy? The difference between free software and MacOSX or Windows should be, that it can be easily configured for many different use-cases and not, that it comes as a rescue system for oldish hardware by default. best regards HZN > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 2:49 pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 14:34 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: >> >> > Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: >> >> >>> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's >> for >> >>> all multimedia content creation. >> >> >> >> I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? >> Real >> >> :) I think the intent of the remark is that ubuntustudio is not "only" >> a >> pro audio distro. Certainly I think it can be used that way, but it's >> aim >> is also to be a pro graphic studio and a pro photographers studio and a >> pro video creation tool. Hopefully the user will soon be able to choose >> just to install one of these workflows rather than all of them. > > I always remove pulseaudio and build a kernel-rt. The differences to the > full preempt kernel with threadirqs isn't important, but removing > pulseaudio is important. > > For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video > creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? Broadcast. It is good for remote content transport as suggested by the EBU. They do not talk about pulseaudio specifically, but the methods they do suggest can at this time only be done that way. Pulseaudio is also good for use with client show and tell... the client comes in and says, "I saw this thing on U tube..." I understand you have had trouble with PA... Not that long ago it did have many problems. But at this time, I would say that a PA->jack bridge is easier to set up and use than ALSA loop backs. Also many of the MP3 players or CD playing SW do not play well with Jack. (I don't know any) If any of these people are using their computer for a telephone... all the phone apps work with Pulse, none (at this time) work with jack. > > From video creation I would remove the word "professional" ;p. That was why I used the word "Aim" Our aim is to have Studio be professional quality in all these areas. What we need most are people who are involved professionally in video to join our community and make their own system based on studio work for profession audio so we can import the changes. I know the tech aspects of video (at least analogue :), but I am not a video person, my interest is not visual everything looks good to me unless it is really bad. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 14:34 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > > > Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: > > >>> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for > >>> all multimedia content creation. > >> > >> I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real > > :) I think the intent of the remark is that ubuntustudio is not "only" a > pro audio distro. Certainly I think it can be used that way, but it's aim > is also to be a pro graphic studio and a pro photographers studio and a > pro video creation tool. Hopefully the user will soon be able to choose > just to install one of these workflows rather than all of them. I always remove pulseaudio and build a kernel-rt. The differences to the full preempt kernel with threadirqs isn't important, but removing pulseaudio is important. For what kind of professional audio, graphic, photographers and video creation tool is pulseaudio useful ;)? From video creation I would remove the word "professional" ;p. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 11:42 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Ubuntu Studio Precise and Ubuntu Studio Quantal:
>
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo lmount -w u1.precise
> [sudo] password for rocketmouse:
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo lmount -w qrc
> [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /mnt/u1.precise/usr/bin/qjackctl
> #!/bin/sh
>
> # laucher.sh - Disable PulseAudio before launching a JACKD based program
> # Copyright © 2011 Alessio Treglia
> #
> # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
> # it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
> # the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
> # (at your option) any later version.
>
> PROGRAM="/usr/lib/qjackctl/qjackctl.real"
> PASUSPENDER="`whereis -b pasuspender | cut -d ':' -f 2 | tr -d ' '`"
>
> ( [ -x "${PASUSPENDER}" ] && ${PASUSPENDER} -- ${PROGRAM} ${@} ) ||
> ${PROGRAM} ${@}
>
> exit 0
This script has not been doing anything useful for at least since 12.04,
maybe on or two release before that too. It's broken. And that is why I
suggested to have it removed some time ago. It's now removed in the
upstream qjackctl debian package. Doesn't do any harm, or any good
either for that matter atm.
--
Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Ubuntu Studio Precise and Ubuntu Studio Quantal:
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo lmount -w u1.precise
[sudo] password for rocketmouse:
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ sudo lmount -w qrc
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /mnt/u1.precise/usr/bin/qjackctl
#!/bin/sh
# laucher.sh - Disable PulseAudio before launching a JACKD based program
# Copyright © 2011 Alessio Treglia
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
# (at your option) any later version.
PROGRAM="/usr/lib/qjackctl/qjackctl.real"
PASUSPENDER="`whereis -b pasuspender | cut -d ':' -f 2 | tr -d ' '`"
( [ -x "${PASUSPENDER}" ] && ${PASUSPENDER} -- ${PROGRAM} ${@} ) ||
${PROGRAM} ${@}
exit 0
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /mnt/qrc/usr/bin/qjackctl
#!/bin/sh
# laucher.sh - Disable PulseAudio before launching a JACKD based program
# Copyright © 2011 Alessio Treglia
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
# (at your option) any later version.
PROGRAM="/usr/lib/qjackctl/qjackctl.real"
PASUSPENDER="`whereis -b pasuspender | cut -d ':' -f 2 | tr -d ' '`"
( [ -x "${PASUSPENDER}" ] && ${PASUSPENDER} -- ${PROGRAM} ${@} ) ||
${PROGRAM} ${@}
exit 0
And FWIW, "lmount" is a command I created, since I removed gvfs from my
Xfce. One of the PITA that ship with Xfce, the USB HDD killer that makes
those external hard disks spin down and up again and again.
--
Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list
Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
> Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: >>> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for >>> all multimedia content creation. >> >> I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real :) I think the intent of the remark is that ubuntustudio is not "only" a pro audio distro. Certainly I think it can be used that way, but it's aim is also to be a pro graphic studio and a pro photographers studio and a pro video creation tool. Hopefully the user will soon be able to choose just to install one of these workflows rather than all of them. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 11:09 am, Eric Hedekar wrote: > However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that this > is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. If it is what is within the "developers" capabilities and interests, why not? remember none of us are paid for any of this. Also think what you would do if any time you started to work on something as a volunteer and people told you don't do that do this that you can't do... you would walk away. We are trying to build this team. We do that by encouraging people in what they do and the progress they are able to do in the areas they are good at. This is not a sweatshop. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 12:25 am, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: >> This is an interesting project. > > To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for > installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, > if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name > it. > > So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point > your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting > too: > > > Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with > priority 10 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path > "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already > registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 > error : A handler is already registered for > /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server > > > To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported > hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing > to be achieved I dare to think. Thankyou for your comment. I can not work on your problem for a number of reasons. The first being that with two computers and 5 different audio interfaces, I have not had that problem. So for me to work on it, you would have to ship your system to me so I can "work on it". And if it turned out that this was an upstream problem, I would have to ship your system (or sound card) upstream to someone who was willing to work on it. Second, I am not a coder. I can do shell script (bash, tcl/tk and some python) and a bit of c, so long as time is not a consideration... in other words I would not even try to look at real time coding or anything that needed special libs. That stuff right now is beyond me. C++ just doesn't make sense to me, I can use some of the GUI stuff by following examples, but I don't really understand what I am doing. Third, this is not a paid position. That is not how community projects work. If this was a commercial project, the first thing that would happen is they would hire someone better than me. Second that person would have specific goals such as you ask. But in the community based project, volunteers look around for what they can do and what interests them and do it. That is what I am doing. I do also do ISO and install testing as well as some (very little right now) recording. So I know that for my systems jack (and pulse) both work. Speaking of community, as you are a part of it and have a special interest in the problem you have, perhaps you should start there. What some of us can do is help you understand where to start, and what steps to take. (welcome to the team) > Ahhh: OK, OK: if you can *promise*, that you can make the above > mentioned failed to start kind of thing disappeare for good, I would > provide a nice US-Menu and some documentation too for running US under > KDE. And half a dozen Wallpapers How much are you willing to pay for this service? For these promises? How much of a wage are you willing to pay so that we can hire some coders to fix your problems? This is a volunteer project, we are happy when people do something productive that moves the project forward. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 21:29 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > 8Gig RAM In a throw-away-society nearly every Microsoft and Apple fan has got such computers. Linux and especially Ubuntu have got another philosophy. Computers with all that's needed for everybody, so much older gear must be supported too. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013 10:32 am, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop > environments is not very useful. Some desktop environemts do start a > chunk of services by default to automagically enable usage for many > things, so the user needs to customize those desktops for audio work, or > somebody from the community has to do it. There are common workflows for > pro-audio work and even while I could add a list of odd things, caused > by Xfce, it's a sane choice to use it as the default for Ubuntu Studio. > I'm using it on other Linux installs too. I agree xfce is a sane choice and as far as I know it will continue to be the default. However there have been many users asking how to make Studio work with different DEs. So we are looking at making some DE metas that can be added to Studio so that these users can have the DE they wish. Personally, I expect to continue to use xfce though I may try out LXDE at some point. > Pulseaudio is something that should be discussed. It's not an issue to > have it installed and to disable it, but it's an issue for users who > start sessions by scripts, if there is the need to start "qjackctl", but > to kill "qjackctl.real" or what ever it's called ;). I don't remember > what the "qjackctl"(.fake)-script does and can't take a look at it at > the moment, but IIRC it did something that also could be started by > qjackctl, instead of naming a script qjackctl and then let it start > qjackctl.real. Looking at the /usr/bin/ dir on both 12.04 and 13.10 shows only qjackctl and that file is a binary, not a script. So I am not sure that the two processes are unique to ubuntu. However, If I was going to use scripts, I would use jack_control which can do anything qjackctl can do Setting HW names, rates, latency etc. I still like qjackctl over patchage for connecting ports, but even that can be scripted. > IMO it's already annoying if I need to start an app by it's name, but to > kill it by killing python, however, this at least makes sense, while > this qjackctl.thingy is an exotic Ubuntu Studio unique thing, that IMO > isn't well thought out. A wrapper sometimes is useful, but this wrapper > is strange. I am not sure why this is. As I said the qjackctl file is not a script. and I am not sure that it is unique to ubuntu either, but it is worth checking out. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 22:09, schrieb Jimmy Sjölund: > Hi, > > this is my first post to the mailing list. So bare with me for a short > introduction. When I discovered Ubuntu Studio some years ago I only had > access to a very old pc and a quite old laptop. However I was able to > record some songs on it, but mixing was a nightmare since the computers > were too old. Then I upgraded to a Sony Vaio after much research about Vaio > and Ubuntu. However, there were issues between jack, my audio card and how > the Sony Vaio use USB. The result was that I could only record in 16 bit, > 44.1 kHz. Which was worse than I had before on my old computers, 24 bit and > 48 kHz.. So I reverted to Windows for my audio recordings and tried out > every new release of Ubuntu Studio until finally everything just worked in > 12.04. At last, I could actually do all my recordings, mixing and mastering > in US. But by then I was about to have my first child and the time for > recording somehow disappeared... > >> Anyway: any person, that uses Win or Mac for that that tries US and is >> encountering this problem will switch back and maybe consider using >> Linux next year or never > > Which was just what I did. I was persistent to try out every new release > until my equipment finally worked. By now it's outdated, oh well, but > that's another issue. > >> Do you have a statistic on how many people out there use US for >> music-production? > > This would be interesting. From reading the Ubuntu Forums there seem to be > at least some using it in their professional studios. I do music > recordings, but the degree of "professionalism" could be argued. On the > other hand, with the DIY revolution in the music industry many could be > labelled professional. > >> First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for >> all multimedia content creation. > > I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real > time/low latency kernel and all... I see now that site actually states > "multimedia" in several places. But if I wouldn't use US for pro audio, > what should I use instead? Back to Windows or Mac? Further, what defines > "pro audio"? Probably in the music industry ProTools on Mac and so on will > continue to be leading, but for a home studio or in the early stages studio > I think Ubuntu Studio could be a choice to consider. And more with the > right marketing and support. Mind you, being an audio engineer and musician > I'm mostly thinking about the audio parts of the distribution. (Though I > happily use Gimp and Kdenlive). > >> Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop >> environments is not very useful. > > I couldn't agree more. I like when my desktop looks nice but when I'm about > to record, cut a video or handle large graphics my main concern is > performance. Mine is time, thats why I use to spend 1-2 E more when shopping for hardware -- I buy the performance to spare the time tweaking a feeble computer into a powerhouse-workstation. And for my day2day job I want a desktop, that offers all I need in less than a second as I need it. And I want a real-world Linux desktop because I want to keep an understanding for the average end-user. I write for Magazines that are for such users and to be experienced with a custom made tweaked Super-Linux does not help much to walk in the shoes of such normal users. And it works great for me. Whenever I get in trouble it is because of misconfiguration or misbehaviour of software, never because of the "natural" demands of that software. It could be, that for some critical live-recording I would switch to Fluxbox and kill all the background-services I use to have running normally (LAMP, Networkmanager etc) But not for editing or for recording overdubs. > I was quite happy when US changed to Xfce. I think it's the > right way to go. I actually changed my other workstations to Xfce as well > after that. XFCE is perfectly OK but not primarily because it is leaner than UNITY or GNOME3, but because it is more simplistic and it does not need 3d. KDE would have been a good choice also, because it can easily be configured to be even more lean and simplistic than XFCE. And it comes with a better file-manager. But again: XFCE is good. best regards HZN > If you want Unity or other you can always use standard Ubuntu and add the > audio, video and/or graphic tools you need. Make Ubuntu Studio a bit > special for the creative people. > > But: > >> We don't know how long into the future the xfce platform will best suit > our needs (very little warning was given during the >> gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in the first place), > and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be for those >> of us who love a different DE to just switch. > > Which also makes sense. > >> Please remember >> that the team is only a handful of people, and constructive help in most >> cases is actually doing things yourself. >>
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Jimmy Sjölund wrote: > Hi, > > this is my first post to the mailing list. So bare with me for a short > introduction. When I discovered Ubuntu Studio some years ago I only had > access to a very old pc and a quite old laptop. However I was able to > record some songs on it, but mixing was a nightmare since the computers > were too old. Then I upgraded to a Sony Vaio after much research about > Vaio > and Ubuntu. However, there were issues between jack, my audio card and > how > the Sony Vaio use USB. The result was that I could only record in 16 bit, > 44.1 kHz. Which was worse than I had before on my old computers, 24 bit > and > 48 kHz.. So I reverted to Windows for my audio recordings and tried out > every new release of Ubuntu Studio until finally everything just worked > in > 12.04. At last, I could actually do all my recordings, mixing and > mastering > in US. But by then I was about to have my first child and the time for > recording somehow disappeared... > > > Anyway: any person, that uses Win or Mac for that that tries US and is > > encountering this problem will switch back and maybe consider using > > Linux next year or never > > Which was just what I did. I was persistent to try out every new release > until my equipment finally worked. By now it's outdated, oh well, but > that's another issue. > > > Do you have a statistic on how many people out there use US for > > music-production? > > This would be interesting. From reading the Ubuntu Forums there seem to > be > at least some using it in their professional studios. I do music > recordings, but the degree of "professionalism" could be argued. On the > other hand, with the DIY revolution in the music industry many could be > labelled professional. > > > First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for > > all multimedia content creation. > > I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real > time/low latency kernel and all... I see now that site actually states > "multimedia" in several places. But if I wouldn't use US for pro audio, > what should I use instead? Back to Windows or Mac? Further, what defines > "pro audio"? Probably in the music industry ProTools on Mac and so on > will > continue to be leading, but for a home studio or in the early stages > studio > I think Ubuntu Studio could be a choice to consider. And more with the > right marketing and support. Mind you, being an audio engineer and > musician > I'm mostly thinking about the audio parts of the distribution. (Though I > happily use Gimp and Kdenlive). It's just a fact. Ubuntu Studio is not a only a pro audio orientated distribution. We currently have "audio", "video", "graphics", "publishing" and "photography" as our range of workflows. You may check out this to read more about that http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/ The job for Ubuntu Studio has never been to be a customized distribution for pro audio. Rather, the idea of Ubuntu Studio from the start has been to be an example - a showcase, of what regular Ubuntu can do, with a nice selection of multimedia applications, configurations - and since linux-generic doesn't cut it, we have linux-lowlatency in its place. If what you want is a hardcore pro audio orientated distribution, for example something based on Ubuntu, where some applications have been patched - in other words, recoded, then KXStudio is a much better choice. KXStudio is a custom distro in this way. Ubuntu Studio is not, and doesn't try to be. Ubuntu Studio is a work in progress to make any flavor of Ubuntu, and also Debian, and therefore also Mint, and all the other derivatives, usable for our set of workflows. This means, we push for changes in packaging in Debian, and changes in the code upstream with the application developers. That is how we achieve this. > > > Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop > > environments is not very useful. > > I couldn't agree more. I like when my desktop looks nice but when I'm > about > to record, cut a video or handle large graphics my main concern is > performance. I was quite happy when US changed to Xfce. I think it's the > right way to go. I actually changed my other workstations to Xfce as well > after that. > If you want Unity or other you can always use standard Ubuntu and add the > audio, video and/or graphic tools you need. Make Ubuntu Studio a bit > special for the creative people. > This is a very subjective problem however. XFCE is kind of in the middle performancewise, I would say. And it's a good base for all of the workflows we have IMO, but I'm happily using Gnome3 myself, and I do low latency live audio processing. It all depends on which kind of machine you have, what you do with it, and what your personal preference is. The DE doesn't have that much of an impact on performance most of the time. This may have more to do with graphic drivers and desktop FX. > But: > > > We don't kno
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Hi, this is my first post to the mailing list. So bare with me for a short introduction. When I discovered Ubuntu Studio some years ago I only had access to a very old pc and a quite old laptop. However I was able to record some songs on it, but mixing was a nightmare since the computers were too old. Then I upgraded to a Sony Vaio after much research about Vaio and Ubuntu. However, there were issues between jack, my audio card and how the Sony Vaio use USB. The result was that I could only record in 16 bit, 44.1 kHz. Which was worse than I had before on my old computers, 24 bit and 48 kHz.. So I reverted to Windows for my audio recordings and tried out every new release of Ubuntu Studio until finally everything just worked in 12.04. At last, I could actually do all my recordings, mixing and mastering in US. But by then I was about to have my first child and the time for recording somehow disappeared... > Anyway: any person, that uses Win or Mac for that that tries US and is > encountering this problem will switch back and maybe consider using > Linux next year or never Which was just what I did. I was persistent to try out every new release until my equipment finally worked. By now it's outdated, oh well, but that's another issue. > Do you have a statistic on how many people out there use US for > music-production? This would be interesting. From reading the Ubuntu Forums there seem to be at least some using it in their professional studios. I do music recordings, but the degree of "professionalism" could be argued. On the other hand, with the DIY revolution in the music industry many could be labelled professional. > First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for > all multimedia content creation. I have always considered US as a pro audio distribution, why not? Real time/low latency kernel and all... I see now that site actually states "multimedia" in several places. But if I wouldn't use US for pro audio, what should I use instead? Back to Windows or Mac? Further, what defines "pro audio"? Probably in the music industry ProTools on Mac and so on will continue to be leading, but for a home studio or in the early stages studio I think Ubuntu Studio could be a choice to consider. And more with the right marketing and support. Mind you, being an audio engineer and musician I'm mostly thinking about the audio parts of the distribution. (Though I happily use Gimp and Kdenlive). > Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop > environments is not very useful. I couldn't agree more. I like when my desktop looks nice but when I'm about to record, cut a video or handle large graphics my main concern is performance. I was quite happy when US changed to Xfce. I think it's the right way to go. I actually changed my other workstations to Xfce as well after that. If you want Unity or other you can always use standard Ubuntu and add the audio, video and/or graphic tools you need. Make Ubuntu Studio a bit special for the creative people. But: > We don't know how long into the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very little warning was given during the > gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be for those > of us who love a different DE to just switch. Which also makes sense. > Please remember > that the team is only a handful of people, and constructive help in most > cases is actually doing things yourself. > > I'm currently trying to get more people involved, and we have gotten > some responses. Many people come by, but getting really dedicated people > doesn't happen every day, and most people simply don't have the time for > it. Not being able to code I don't know how to contribute even though I really would like to? Other than participating in the mailing list that is. Kind regards Jimmy -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Concerning multiple DE's: What about Cinnamon? Of all DE's I've tried, it is the one that can be configured to look and feel the most like the Ubuntustudio desktop I knew and loved in 2008. When using the "GNOME" theme in Cinnamon with the UbuntuStudio-legacy icons and GTK 3/2 theme I privately maintain, it is absolutely spectacular. Cinnamon is a bit heavy, as it is based on gnome-shell, but seems to be a bit lighter than gnome-shell. MATE is much lighter, enough so to allow a 2GHZ Pentium 4 to just play 720p video, but as it is based on Gnome 2 there are questions about its long-term mantainability. Cinnamon is based on current code and available from a PPA in Ubuntu. I would not be at all surprised to see it offered in Universe at some point. Cinnamon's sound applet normally works with Pulseaudio, doesn't work if Pulse is not running. Volti, however, appears in Cinnamon's tray and works fine. This is a legacy, not a current version of the Ubuntustudio theme, icons, etc that I use, but be aware that they all exist and all work together for me, I've just never played with packaging things as debian packages yet. On 05/22/2013 at 3:39 PM, "Kaj Ailomaa" wrote: > >On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 08:09 PM, Eric Hedekar wrote: >> This really was one of the most dramatic train/thread >derailments I've >> seen >> in a while. Impressive. >> >> As far as other desktop environments are concerned, part of me >is in >> favour >> of this mindset being adopted (as I've never left gnome despite >Ubuntu > >Same here. But I did find going with XFCE as the default desktop >was the >best choice at that time nevertheless, because of the uncertainty >around >other DEs. >Also, the custom menu is not a bad addition, even if I'd rather >try push >new categorizations upstream, and do as little customization at the >Ubuntu Studio end, as possible. > >> Studio's switch to xfce - I just don't like that DE). If a >modular front >> end was adopted then it would encourage wider usage and a better >overall >> design. However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was >that >> this >> is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. > There >> have almost always been stability issues, bugs, and lack of >documentation >> in Ubuntu Studio that the user sees as more drastic to their >workflow >> than > >Yes. But, the way I see it, the people who want to fix those >things are >already working on that. And it would not help the situation >anyway by >not allowing people who can't help fix those issues to not be >allowed to >do what they want to do. So, there's really no conflict there. >Is anyone against the idea of multiple DE support for Ubuntu >Studio? If >yes, then please explain why? Otherwise, I think it's just good >that we >have work going on in as many fields as possible. > >Right now, we are mainly experimenting with adding new DEs to the >mix. >Something I'm sure a lot of users will appreciate. Also, while >doing >that, we get insight in problems we weren't aware of before. >I don't see any conflict in planning here. I'd rather see more >people >helping out, but I suppose that will always be the situation for >any >volunteer project :). > >> annoying quirks from the given DE. So yeah, apply force to the >major >> problems, but it would be a prudent philosophy to reduce the >amount of >> xfce-specific code that ships with the distro. We don't know >how long >> into >> the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very >little >> warning >> was given during the gnome/unity move that prompted our switch >to xfce in >> the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it >will be >> for those of us who love a different DE to just switch. > >We don't actually have that much custom work on the DE right now, >as it >is mostly based on Xubuntu (len is working on that mostly). The >menu is >probably the biggest part of that, and it would be nice to have a >generic solution to that which would work on all DEs, and the >problems >in that are becoming clear now that we are trying out different >DEs. >So, the effort in changing DE, or adding more of them is not that >big. >The more people learn how you develop them, the easier it becomes >on the >whole team as well. Right now, we have 4 different people working >on the >different aspects of these DEs, not counting our art lead, who >will also >be involved in making them look nice. Out of those four, only one >is >even patching Ubuntu code. So, there you have it. > >Most of the problems in jack and PA integration are in coding, so >that >is actually mostly up to the coders to fix, and currently, no one >in the >Ubuntu Studio team is working on developing either pulseaudio or >jack. >But, of course, we have a special position in that we can >communicate to >the coders and help make clear different issues. We can establish >a good >overview of the problems, etc. Doesn't require any coding skills. >Just >re
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 08:09 PM, Eric Hedekar wrote: > This really was one of the most dramatic train/thread derailments I've > seen > in a while. Impressive. > > As far as other desktop environments are concerned, part of me is in > favour > of this mindset being adopted (as I've never left gnome despite Ubuntu Same here. But I did find going with XFCE as the default desktop was the best choice at that time nevertheless, because of the uncertainty around other DEs. Also, the custom menu is not a bad addition, even if I'd rather try push new categorizations upstream, and do as little customization at the Ubuntu Studio end, as possible. > Studio's switch to xfce - I just don't like that DE). If a modular front > end was adopted then it would encourage wider usage and a better overall > design. However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that > this > is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. There > have almost always been stability issues, bugs, and lack of documentation > in Ubuntu Studio that the user sees as more drastic to their workflow > than Yes. But, the way I see it, the people who want to fix those things are already working on that. And it would not help the situation anyway by not allowing people who can't help fix those issues to not be allowed to do what they want to do. So, there's really no conflict there. Is anyone against the idea of multiple DE support for Ubuntu Studio? If yes, then please explain why? Otherwise, I think it's just good that we have work going on in as many fields as possible. Right now, we are mainly experimenting with adding new DEs to the mix. Something I'm sure a lot of users will appreciate. Also, while doing that, we get insight in problems we weren't aware of before. I don't see any conflict in planning here. I'd rather see more people helping out, but I suppose that will always be the situation for any volunteer project :). > annoying quirks from the given DE. So yeah, apply force to the major > problems, but it would be a prudent philosophy to reduce the amount of > xfce-specific code that ships with the distro. We don't know how long > into > the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very little > warning > was given during the gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in > the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be > for those of us who love a different DE to just switch. We don't actually have that much custom work on the DE right now, as it is mostly based on Xubuntu (len is working on that mostly). The menu is probably the biggest part of that, and it would be nice to have a generic solution to that which would work on all DEs, and the problems in that are becoming clear now that we are trying out different DEs. So, the effort in changing DE, or adding more of them is not that big. The more people learn how you develop them, the easier it becomes on the whole team as well. Right now, we have 4 different people working on the different aspects of these DEs, not counting our art lead, who will also be involved in making them look nice. Out of those four, only one is even patching Ubuntu code. So, there you have it. Most of the problems in jack and PA integration are in coding, so that is actually mostly up to the coders to fix, and currently, no one in the Ubuntu Studio team is working on developing either pulseaudio or jack. But, of course, we have a special position in that we can communicate to the coders and help make clear different issues. We can establish a good overview of the problems, etc. Doesn't require any coding skills. Just requires for someone to put some time into it, and it could be anyone. A good first step is always a bug report, as mentioned. Then, someone has to put time on finding ways to solve the problem. > > -Eric Hedekar > > * > Eric Hedekar > *http://www.erichedekar.com > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 20:09, schrieb Eric Hedekar: > This really was one of the most dramatic train/thread derailments I've seen > in a while. Impressive. > > As far as other desktop environments are concerned, part of me is in favour > of this mindset being adopted (as I've never left gnome despite Ubuntu > Studio's switch to xfce - I just don't like that DE). If a modular front > end was adopted then it would encourage wider usage and a better overall > design. However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that this > is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. There > have almost always been stability issues, bugs, and lack of documentation > in Ubuntu Studio that the user sees as more drastic to their workflow than > annoying quirks from the given DE. So yeah, apply force to the major > problems, Exactly. Anyway, the problem is, that (no offence meant) there are more people out there, that can tweak and script desktop-stuff than coders, that are deep enough into the low-level affairs to be able to fix the real annoying issues... So if that can be helpful: I am perfectly satisfied by the US-Desktop! I like it, whenever I test it, I do not find anything that would need repair. Even though I use KDE for my day2day work including working with Ardour3, Guitarix, KDEnlive, testing Stuff like Bitwig and most new music-related software for Linux. I run it on Ubuntu and its KDE and USs XFCE are both just great. Good job, people! > but it would be a prudent philosophy to reduce the amount of > xfce-specific code that ships with the distro. We don't know how long into > the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very little warning > was given during the gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in > the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be > for those of us who love a different DE to just switch. Most wise. Productive work should be supported well by the DE but it should not depend on a specific desktop. BTW: If I compare stability and performance of Ardour3+many plugins + Guitarix under KDE, XFCE or Fluxbox I fail to see any practical impact of "bloat". Non of the 3 setups is enough to fill more than 2 thirds of my 8Gig RAM, that are a lot to me but not that special nowadays. And on my other machine I run comparable setups with 3Gigs RAM and with not much difference either So performancewise I do not think that a DE needs to be tweaked a lot. Expect maybe regarding dependencies to 3d-capabilities. best regards HZN > > -Eric Hedekar > > * > Eric Hedekar > *http://www.erichedekar.com > > > On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > >> Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop >> environments is not very useful. Some desktop environemts do start a >> chunk of services by default to automagically enable usage for many >> things, so the user needs to customize those desktops for audio work, or >> somebody from the community has to do it. There are common workflows for >> pro-audio work and even while I could add a list of odd things, caused >> by Xfce, it's a sane choice to use it as the default for Ubuntu Studio. >> I'm using it on other Linux installs too. >> >> Pulseaudio is something that should be discussed. It's not an issue to >> have it installed and to disable it, but it's an issue for users who >> start sessions by scripts, if there is the need to start "qjackctl", but >> to kill "qjackctl.real" or what ever it's called ;). I don't remember >> what the "qjackctl"(.fake)-script does and can't take a look at it at >> the moment, but IIRC it did something that also could be started by >> qjackctl, instead of naming a script qjackctl and then let it start >> qjackctl.real. >> >> IMO it's already annoying if I need to start an app by it's name, but to >> kill it by killing python, however, this at least makes sense, while >> this qjackctl.thingy is an exotic Ubuntu Studio unique thing, that IMO >> isn't well thought out. A wrapper sometimes is useful, but this wrapper >> is strange. >> >> >> -- >> Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list >> Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel >> > > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
This really was one of the most dramatic train/thread derailments I've seen in a while. Impressive. As far as other desktop environments are concerned, part of me is in favour of this mindset being adopted (as I've never left gnome despite Ubuntu Studio's switch to xfce - I just don't like that DE). If a modular front end was adopted then it would encourage wider usage and a better overall design. However, what Hartmut may have been trying to state was that this is development is probably not the best use of developer's time. There have almost always been stability issues, bugs, and lack of documentation in Ubuntu Studio that the user sees as more drastic to their workflow than annoying quirks from the given DE. So yeah, apply force to the major problems, but it would be a prudent philosophy to reduce the amount of xfce-specific code that ships with the distro. We don't know how long into the future the xfce platform will best suit our needs (very little warning was given during the gnome/unity move that prompted our switch to xfce in the first place), and the lack of DE-specific code the easier it will be for those of us who love a different DE to just switch. -Eric Hedekar * Eric Hedekar *http://www.erichedekar.com On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop > environments is not very useful. Some desktop environemts do start a > chunk of services by default to automagically enable usage for many > things, so the user needs to customize those desktops for audio work, or > somebody from the community has to do it. There are common workflows for > pro-audio work and even while I could add a list of odd things, caused > by Xfce, it's a sane choice to use it as the default for Ubuntu Studio. > I'm using it on other Linux installs too. > > Pulseaudio is something that should be discussed. It's not an issue to > have it installed and to disable it, but it's an issue for users who > start sessions by scripts, if there is the need to start "qjackctl", but > to kill "qjackctl.real" or what ever it's called ;). I don't remember > what the "qjackctl"(.fake)-script does and can't take a look at it at > the moment, but IIRC it did something that also could be started by > qjackctl, instead of naming a script qjackctl and then let it start > qjackctl.real. > > IMO it's already annoying if I need to start an app by it's name, but to > kill it by killing python, however, this at least makes sense, while > this qjackctl.thingy is an exotic Ubuntu Studio unique thing, that IMO > isn't well thought out. A wrapper sometimes is useful, but this wrapper > is strange. > > > -- > Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list > Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Getting audio working for audio production, with some bloated desktop environments is not very useful. Some desktop environemts do start a chunk of services by default to automagically enable usage for many things, so the user needs to customize those desktops for audio work, or somebody from the community has to do it. There are common workflows for pro-audio work and even while I could add a list of odd things, caused by Xfce, it's a sane choice to use it as the default for Ubuntu Studio. I'm using it on other Linux installs too. Pulseaudio is something that should be discussed. It's not an issue to have it installed and to disable it, but it's an issue for users who start sessions by scripts, if there is the need to start "qjackctl", but to kill "qjackctl.real" or what ever it's called ;). I don't remember what the "qjackctl"(.fake)-script does and can't take a look at it at the moment, but IIRC it did something that also could be started by qjackctl, instead of naming a script qjackctl and then let it start qjackctl.real. IMO it's already annoying if I need to start an app by it's name, but to kill it by killing python, however, this at least makes sense, while this qjackctl.thingy is an exotic Ubuntu Studio unique thing, that IMO isn't well thought out. A wrapper sometimes is useful, but this wrapper is strange. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 18:38, schrieb Kaj Ailomaa: > On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 05:23 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Am 22.05.2013 16:12, schrieb Kaj Ailomaa: >>> On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 09:25 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: > This is an interesting project. To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name it. So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting too: Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 error : A handler is already registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing to be achieved I dare to think. best regards HZN >>> > First of all, thank you for your elaborate and constructive answer. Ths is much more than I get before when discussing this bug(expect from FalkTX, who did his best to help me out) > I haven't seen this bug before, but it does seem like the card is > already being used by something - maybe even another jack? indeed there was jackdbus running when I encountered this but killing it did not help. > If you want > to help solve it, make a bug report, and try to find out the cause of > the problem as well as you can. It's the best chance of someone learning > how to fix it. This is excellent advise and I am *NOT* ironic: find out what happens and fix it is the way, I try to go with this bug for about a year now. In several fora and lists. > > And, let me rant for a little bit.. > > First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. Please: if it is not, then it is nothing but some "skin" for Ubuntu. It is perfectly acceptable, that it is not tweaked to the limits (RT-kernel etc) but I am sure, you will agree, that if Ardour does not work normally on it, what remains to make it any special? > It's for > all multimedia content creation. So simply removing pulseaudio is of > course out of the question This I agree, the charme of US is the compromise between real-world Desktop and Pro, good way to go and perfectly possible methinks. >- but I'm considering making it configurable > so that one can choose not use it, or even not to install it in the > first place. More to come on this in the future. > In any way, the installer will have more options than today. > > There is no strict central planning involved in developing Ubuntu > Studio. Only in areas where it is found necessary. Which means, if you > want to do something for Ubuntu Studio, and it doesn't break anything > for anyone else, you are free to do it. > > Not everyone is adept at fixing issues in pulseaudio and jack code, so > one cannot expect the team to only work for that. I hope I'm making a > point clear about this. This I am aware, the percentage of coders who actually can fix bugs in these delicate beasts is not that high. Thats why I mentioned the PITA-thing: the more people speak about these problems, the more motivation to fix them for those who can. No complaints - no problem - no fix. That simple. best regards HZN > Further, people who don't care about pulseaudio will of course not care > about fixing problems with it at all. > > So far, I've been able to add upstream fixes to jack and pulseaudio by > adding patches to packages. As a new member of the Debian Multimedia > Team, I will also start to work on improving the actual packages that we > import from Debian - as, we don't actually package them ourselves, which > some have been led to believe. > There are some issues that I would like to look at, among other things > how jack is packaged, and also, how realtime privilege is administered. > My goal is to make any Ubuntu flavor just as easy to use for multimedia > (including pro audio) content creation. > > So, making Ubuntu Studio work well on all DEs is not a bad goal. And the > people who find that interesting will be the people who do the work. > Simple as that. This goes for all areas of interests. I find this to be > a good democratic way to go
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 05:23 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 22.05.2013 16:12, schrieb Kaj Ailomaa: > > On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 09:25 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: > >> Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: > >>> This is an interesting project. > >> > >> To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for > >> installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, > >> if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name > >> it. > >> > >> So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point > >> your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting > >> too: > >> > >> > >> Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with > >> priority 10 > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path > >> "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already > >> registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 > >> error : A handler is already registered for > >> /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 > >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server > >> > >> > >> To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported > >> hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing > >> to be achieved I dare to think. > >> > >> > >> best regards > >> > >> HZN > >> > > I haven't seen this bug before, but it does seem like the card is already being used by something - maybe even another jack? If you want to help solve it, make a bug report, and try to find out the cause of the problem as well as you can. It's the best chance of someone learning how to fix it. And, let me rant for a little bit.. First of all, Ubuntu Studio is not a pro audio distribution. It's for all multimedia content creation. So simply removing pulseaudio is of course out of the question - but I'm considering making it configurable so that one can choose not use it, or even not to install it in the first place. More to come on this in the future. In any way, the installer will have more options than today. There is no strict central planning involved in developing Ubuntu Studio. Only in areas where it is found necessary. Which means, if you want to do something for Ubuntu Studio, and it doesn't break anything for anyone else, you are free to do it. Not everyone is adept at fixing issues in pulseaudio and jack code, so one cannot expect the team to only work for that. I hope I'm making a point clear about this. Further, people who don't care about pulseaudio will of course not care about fixing problems with it at all. So far, I've been able to add upstream fixes to jack and pulseaudio by adding patches to packages. As a new member of the Debian Multimedia Team, I will also start to work on improving the actual packages that we import from Debian - as, we don't actually package them ourselves, which some have been led to believe. There are some issues that I would like to look at, among other things how jack is packaged, and also, how realtime privilege is administered. My goal is to make any Ubuntu flavor just as easy to use for multimedia (including pro audio) content creation. So, making Ubuntu Studio work well on all DEs is not a bad goal. And the people who find that interesting will be the people who do the work. Simple as that. This goes for all areas of interests. I find this to be a good democratic way to go about developing a community Ubuntu based flavor. It will also shine a light on all the issues that exist on different DEs, and will enable us to come up with generic solutions that can be applied not just to one DE, but to all of them. If you have ideas on how to improve things, you are free to suggest them. All good ideas are welcome. To have a better chance of getting those implemented, uou are also free to help realize them - which is another important point. Please remember that the team is only a handful of people, and constructive help in most cases is actually doing things yourself. I'm currently trying to get more people involved, and we have gotten some responses. Many people come by, but getting really dedicated people doesn't happen every day, and most people simply don't have the time for it. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 16:12, schrieb Kaj Ailomaa: > On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 09:25 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: >>> This is an interesting project. >> >> To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for >> installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, >> if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name >> it. >> >> So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point >> your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting >> too: >> >> >> Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with >> priority 10 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path >> "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already >> registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 >> error : A handler is already registered for >> /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 >> Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server >> >> >> To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported >> hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing >> to be achieved I dare to think. >> >> >> best regards >> >> HZN >> > > This was a bug in the pulseaudio code. It was fixed a few months ago, > and the fix is now being merged with the packages for 12.04 and 12.10 > (should be out within a couple of weeks) > 13.04 includes pulseaudio 3.0, which already includes the fix. I run 13.04 Pulseaudio is 1:3.0-0ubuntu6 If you read carefully, you may find, that the bug refers to a situation, where jackd spawns the following error: ATTENTION: The playback device "hw:0" is already in use. Please stop the application using it and run JACK again I have a problem, that spawns this: ERROR: cannot register object path "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already registered The only "fix", I could find so far is completely removing pulseaudio (recommended by FalkTX), seems not the most elegant way to handle this to me. What I was trying to say here is, that it would be great, if a distro-variant, that promises ease of use for multimedia-producers, concentrates on making the distro working as expected in the first place. Before discussing easy to go fun stuff like what DE will we use and how shall it look like? I am sure, if the team would concentrate on show-stoppers, the users would be glad to help fixing them and be it by spreading word on such problems to become a PITA for those, who are qualified enough to fix. I am not and most users are not capable to fix low-level bugs as well Do you have a statistic on how many people out there use US for music-production? Anyway: any person, that uses Win or Mac for that that tries US and is encountering this problem will switch back and maybe consider using Linux next year or never best regards HZN > > Here's the bug report > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1163638 > > I think it's fine to suggest fixing packages that are buggy, but please > remember that fixing these packages is done entirely by volunteers. > Which means, anyone may do it - you, or me. > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
On Wed, May 22, 2013, at 09:25 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: > > This is an interesting project. > > To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for > installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, > if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name > it. > > So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point > your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting > too: > > > Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with > priority 10 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path > "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already > registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 > error : A handler is already registered for > /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 > Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server > > > To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported > hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing > to be achieved I dare to think. > > > best regards > > HZN > This was a bug in the pulseaudio code. It was fixed a few months ago, and the fix is now being merged with the packages for 12.04 and 12.10 (should be out within a couple of weeks) 13.04 includes pulseaudio 3.0, which already includes the fix. Here's the bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/1163638 I think it's fine to suggest fixing packages that are buggy, but please remember that fixing these packages is done entirely by volunteers. Which means, anyone may do it - you, or me. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Making Studio work with more than one DE
Am 22.05.2013 07:53, schrieb Len Ovens: > This is an interesting project. To be frank: "interesting project" is quite bold a description for installing more than one DE in Linux. It would be "interesting" though, if the US-packages would fail to run OK in KDE, Fluxbox UNITY, you name it. So if you got the time, and if you do not mind please allow me to point your attention to other things, that my or may not be most interesting too: Mon May 13 17:50:27 2013: JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: cannot register object path "/org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2": A handler is already registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to acquire device name : Audio2 error : A handler is already registered for /org/freedesktop/ReserveDevice1/Audio2 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Audio device hw:2 cannot be acquired... Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Cannot initialize driver Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: JackServer::Open failed with -1 Mon May 13 17:50:28 2013: ERROR: Failed to open server To have a Ubuntu Studio, that can in fact always start Jack on supported hardware under any DE you like, would indeed be a most interesting thing to be achieved I dare to think. best regards HZN Ahhh: OK, OK: if you can *promise*, that you can make the above mentioned failed to start kind of thing disappeare for good, I would provide a nice US-Menu and some documentation too for running US under KDE. And half a dozen Wallpapers > I have xfce, KDE and LXDE and have looked > at unity. I have seen gnome shell, but need to refresh myself on it. > > Menus first. We have set up a custom menu to organize what threatened to > become a very long set of apps in multimedia, but also to show the user > new to art on linux and Ubuntu where the apps might be used and make > things less confusing. It looks like our content creation menus will work > fine with xfce(where it was developed), lxde and KDE. I think gnome shell > also has a menu, though normal operation might not use it. The idea of > typing categories or parts of app names is the big thing right now. In > fact this method can be used in all the DEs, though not so easy with > xfce... an app finder has to be started first. On the other hand Unity > does not seem to use a menu layout at all. (Not an XDG standard anyway) > > In xfce we have gone beyond just adding workflows by adding some direct > buttons at the top. I do not think we will be able to do so with the other > DEs. To be honest maybe we don't need to do that for xfce either as xfce > progresses. > > So for menus for each DE, I have decided to break the menu into three. I > start with a menu that belongs to the session. This includes menu edits > that are unique to that DE. It starts by merging in the stock menu for the > DE. Then it removes anything that is in the way. Then we merge our > workflows last. > > This lets the DE authors take care of most of the menu. We only take care > of the workflow parts. The glue (the file that does the merging) should > remain pretty static. > > If we need a workflow application, I would suggest that we need it for > Unity first. Because we will not be able to use a menu for that purpose. > > It is going to be interesting in designing DE metas to just keep enough of > each DE applets to keep the look and feel the user is choosing that DE > for. > > -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
