date:20130509

Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
 When it comes to the actual install I'm a bit nervous as although
 I'm fairly competent with both Linux and Windows, I've never had a
 machine with SSD/HDD in a false raid like this before, it's only
 two months old, and I've never had a machine where I didn't have a
 Windows install disk!

What's the false raid? I thought it appeared as simply two disks, one
SSD and the other traditional spinning rust.

 The installer sees the 500 GB HDD, so I assume I can create a
 partition and install Ubuntu on that.

Generally, yes. You will want to make certain, though, that not only
can it see the HDD but it can also see the partitions on it, and the
files therein. If it cannot, then this suggests there's some
interesting software layers going on which may need to be worked
around.

 Where do I put the boot loader though? It's telling me it wants to
 put it on the SSD.
 
 Is this where it should go?

It should go on the disk that the BIOS boots, which is likely to be
the SSD.

 I'm assuming that because the installer sees all the partitions and
 disks, I don't need to turn off UEFI or RAID or anything else.

Check you can see the files and then you should be okay. UEFI
shouldn't cause any problems, this pseudo-raid setup might, but I
can't find any details of it.

-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....


On 09/05/13 10:51, Tyler J. Wagner wrote:

On 2013-05-09 10:39, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:

I find it very interesting that nearly four years ago, when I bought my
Toshiba Netbook with Ubuntu Remix from Dixons, they were selling like hot
cakes, far better than the equivalent Windows machines.
Then suddenly, overnight, they disappeared. Now what retailer would remove
a best-selling line instantly like that, /unless /there was some sort of
external pressure to do so? ;-(


Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately
explained by stupidity.

Regards,
Tyler

Perhaps it was the inability of the staff to provide effective support, 
I would suggest that the earlier offer of training made by Victor is the 
way forward, but this must come down from 'on high' as many of the store 
based 'managers' seem to lack the confidence / ability to make a 
decision for the benefit of their customers. Perhaps now that LINUX is 
becoming more 'mainstream' now is the time to apply pressure to the top 
of such monolithic organizations.


Note I have found my local 1 man band PC supplies store to be far more 
helpful, and if he does not know he takes my number and does some 
research and gets back to me (good 'ole customer service is not dead!).
I hope to build a good enough relationship with him that we can get a 
small rack of Ubuntu install cd's in his shop soon! (I have convinced 
him to try it on his old(er) laptop rather than throw it away as it wont 
run WIN 8! this conversation only happened last week!


I will keep this list posted on any progress I make.

Regards

Pete


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[ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

I thought I would just bring the experiences I'm having with Packard 
Bell / Acer to everyone's attention. I've been unhappy with my laptop 
since the day I got it and it seems to be falling apart very rapidly. I 
have been trying to get it looked at but it's like pulling teeth!


Oddly enough linux hasn't been the biggest stumbling block. Anyway, if 
anyone fancies a giggle the entire conversation with them is logged on 
my blog page:


http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=209
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

2013-05-09 Thread Colin Law

On 9 May 2013 11:53, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 I thought I would just bring the experiences I'm having with Packard Bell /
 Acer to everyone's attention. I've been unhappy with my laptop since the day
 I got it and it seems to be falling apart very rapidly. I have been trying
 to get it looked at but it's like pulling teeth!

I am not sure you are being entirely fair in refusing to return the
disc.  Supposing, for example, the overheating is due to a faulty
disk.  If the data is important to you then you must already have a
backup (particularly if the machine is unreliable).  Can you not
simply delete (or encrypt) the sensitive data?

I very much fear that if you do not send the disc then you will be
leaving them the option of saying that they cannot find the problem
and that because you did not send the disc they cannot be held
responsible.  Remember also that under your common law rights (and I
guess under the warantee) that they will have the option of replacing
the machine rather than repairing it, in which case they would replace
the disc.

Colin

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!


On 09/05/13 12:07, Colin Law wrote:

On 9 May 2013 11:53, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

I thought I would just bring the experiences I'm having with Packard Bell /
Acer to everyone's attention. I've been unhappy with my laptop since the day
I got it and it seems to be falling apart very rapidly. I have been trying
to get it looked at but it's like pulling teeth!

I am not sure you are being entirely fair in refusing to return the
disc.  Supposing, for example, the overheating is due to a faulty
disk.  If the data is important to you then you must already have a
backup (particularly if the machine is unreliable).  Can you not
simply delete (or encrypt) the sensitive data?

I very much fear that if you do not send the disc then you will be
leaving them the option of saying that they cannot find the problem
and that because you did not send the disc they cannot be held
responsible.  Remember also that under your common law rights (and I
guess under the warantee) that they will have the option of replacing
the machine rather than repairing it, in which case they would replace
the disc.

Colin

I don't have anything 500gb in size to do a full backup onto and I'm not 
comfortable handing out my business' data at all. I am confident a hard 
disk would not cause an overheating issue like I am experiencing and 
even if it did then that can be addressed once no other issue is found.


Their main reason for wanting the drive appears to be so that they can 
run their (no doubt windows only) diagnostic software on it. And my 
biggest issue with this is that by setting themselves up with nothing 
but expensive phone numbers I've been having this month long 
conversation with them which quite frankly would take less than 5 
minutes over the phone. I really do have better things to do with my 
time. Especially when I spend an entire day in waiting for collection 
only to find they haven't given me the account number for it!



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....

2013-05-09 Thread scoundrel50a


On 09/05/2013 10:39, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:

On 05/06/2013 01:55 PM, Barry Drake wrote:

On 02/05/13 16:14, alan c wrote:

I have often got undesirable responses from almost ANY 'shops' selling
PCs, although I have not tried much now that Android is blossoming so
well, and Chromebooks.


I have posted my actions in full at: Ubuntu bug #1 - see: 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1





I find it very interesting that nearly four years ago, when I bought 
my Toshiba Netbook with Ubuntu Remix from Dixons, they were selling 
like hot cakes, far better than the equivalent Windows machines.
Then suddenly, overnight, they disappeared. Now what retailer would 
remove a best-selling line instantly like that, /unless /there was 
some sort of external pressure to do so? ;-(




When I bought my Acer Aspire with Linux Lite on it, the guy in PCWorld 
said that it might not connect to the internet and there was no support, 
and they were getting loads returned because nobody knew how to use it, 
so if I couldnt get it to work, I could get my money back..which 
tells me that is why Linux based computers disappeared.
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....


On 09/05/13 13:00, Paul Sutton wrote:

On 09/05/13 11:09, pete smout wrote:

On 09/05/13 10:51, Tyler J. Wagner wrote:

On 2013-05-09 10:39, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:

I find it very interesting that nearly four years ago, when I bought my
Toshiba Netbook with Ubuntu Remix from Dixons, they were selling
like hot
cakes, far better than the equivalent Windows machines.
Then suddenly, overnight, they disappeared. Now what retailer would
remove
a best-selling line instantly like that, /unless /there was some
sort of
external pressure to do so? ;-(


Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately
explained by stupidity.

Regards,
Tyler


Perhaps it was the inability of the staff to provide effective
support, I would suggest that the earlier offer of training made by
Victor is the way forward, but this must come down from 'on high' as
many of the store based 'managers' seem to lack the confidence /
ability to make a decision for the benefit of their customers. Perhaps
now that LINUX is becoming more 'mainstream' now is the time to apply
pressure to the top of such monolithic organizations.

Note I have found my local 1 man band PC supplies store to be far more
helpful, and if he does not know he takes my number and does some
research and gets back to me (good 'ole customer service is not dead!).
I hope to build a good enough relationship with him that we can get a
small rack of Ubuntu install cd's in his shop soon! (I have convinced
him to try it on his old(er) laptop rather than throw it away as it
wont run WIN 8! this conversation only happened last week!

I will keep this list posted on any progress I make.

Regards

Pete




Maybe we can include a few user group fliers in there too, so people at
least have some way of getting help / support if they need it,  maybe
invite him to join the lug,  as for cd's maybe also include some Lubuntu
cd's , debian cd's  or other cd's (maybe the lug can help put some
together),  perhaps the shop owner could help by providing a pc + Linux,
but include a built in sd card writer and a raspberry pi image,  so new
pi users can get help flashing the sd card.

Where are you based,  maybe the lug can do some sort of Linux demo event
or something ast the shop,  a bit like the Ubuntu hours but if we call
it GNU/Linux hour instead is less distro centric.

Taking on the big boys is a big job,  helping the smaller shops expand
what they offer may be the way forward.  and it helps local small shops
which the high street needs too.

If a small store offers something unique then it helps them generate new
customer interest.

Just a few thoughts.

Paul



Hi,

All are valid ideas, I admit to being Ubuntu centric, although Lubuntu 
and Debian are also valid ideas, the guy concerned has taken 'my advise' 
and d-loaded ubuntu and installed it to see for him self (he admitted to 
'not having considered LINUX in at least 10 years'. I will pop in on 
Saturday and see how he is getting on, and discuss the ideas mentioned 
above, he was already aware of the Raspberry Pi project, and was doing 
his own research on that before I spoke to him.


I am based in Southampton, the shop is in the Woolston area of the city 
(Bridge Computers), which is not the 'richest' area of town and a 
lo-cost solution I think would be of interest to his 'passing trade'.
I will certainly mention the Hants. LUG (I have found their support both 
useful and fascinating).


Having said all of that he remains a business and as such is there to 
make money, convincing him to supply things F.O.C might be harder than 
we think! I felt that if I could convince *him* of the viability of 
modern LINUX distros then half the battle would be won!


Maybe if other LINUX users in the area popped in and asked all the right 
questions he might be persuaded that offering LINUX support could be his 
USP and generate further business from outside of his local area! Maybe 
even the South-Coast's goto place for LINUX. he might consider it a 
small price to 'give things away'!


If anyone needs further info please contact me off list for directions etc.

Regards

Pete


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....

2013-05-09 Thread Barry Drake


On 09/05/13 13:00, Paul Sutton wrote:
Taking on the big boys is a big job, helping the smaller shops expand 
what they offer may be the way forward. and it helps local small shops 
which the high street needs too. If a small store offers something 
unique then it helps them generate new customer interest. Just a few 
thoughts. Paul 


A problem here is that there is no way any of the small shops can 
compete on price with the big boys.  And as we know, the big boys are 
driven by Microsoft to an unfair degree.


Four years or so ago, I bought a Dell netbook with Ubuntu 
pre-installed.  I went in to our local Dixons at that time asking about 
purchasing from them but was told We no longer stock it - they all came 
back.  I imagine they 'all came back' because of lack of 
staff-training.  OTOH the price of these netbooks from Dixons had been 
really keen.  No independent retailer could possibly have got near it!


Regards,Barry.

--
Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....


On 09/05/13 13:35, Barry Drake wrote:

On 09/05/13 13:00, Paul Sutton wrote:

Taking on the big boys is a big job, helping the smaller shops expand
what they offer may be the way forward. and it helps local small shops
which the high street needs too. If a small store offers something
unique then it helps them generate new customer interest. Just a few
thoughts. Paul


A problem here is that there is no way any of the small shops can
compete on price with the big boys.  And as we know, the big boys are
driven by Microsoft to an unfair degree.


All true but speaking personally I would rather pay a *few* quid more 
for good knowledgeable service than save a fiver and get zero support!

But that's just me!

Four years or so ago, I bought a Dell netbook with Ubuntu
pre-installed.  I went in to our local Dixons at that time asking about
purchasing from them but was told We no longer stock it - they all came
back.  I imagine they 'all came back' because of lack of
staff-training.  OTOH the price of these netbooks from Dixons had been
really keen.  No independent retailer could possibly have got near it!

Regards,Barry.


Pete


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

On 9 May 2013 11:53, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 I thought I would just bring the experiences I'm having with Packard Bell /
 Acer to everyone's attention. I've been unhappy with my laptop since the day
 I got it and it seems to be falling apart very rapidly. I have been trying
 to get it looked at but it's like pulling teeth!

 Oddly enough linux hasn't been the biggest stumbling block. Anyway, if
 anyone fancies a giggle the entire conversation with them is logged on my
 blog page:

 http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=209

You complain repeatedly about their Lo-Call numbers. I have to ask:
have you never heard of http://www.saynoto0870.com/ ?

Whenever I'm confronted with one of these, I just look up the
geographic number and call that.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

On 9 May 2013 12:14, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

 I don't have anything 500gb in size to do a full backup onto

I am sorry, but - WTF?

And you call yourself an IT technician? If you don't have anything to
backup onto, you're not a pro.

Secondly, any pro with 10% of a clue wouldn't buy Packard Bell and
wouldn't buy from Dixon's, but that is by the bye.

Thirdly, your disk is almost certainly not 100% full and therefore you
don't need ½TB of space.

Fourthly, their request for the unit complete is entirely reasonable
and by both refusing to call them, *and* refusing to supply the
machine entire and intact, you are being very unreasonable. Having
read your transcript, they seem to be doing everything to cooperate
while you refuse to. You are refusing to honour the terms of the
warranty, and as such, they are under no obligation to help you.

 and I'm not
 comfortable handing out my business' data at all.

So back it up - obviously as a pro, you'd have 3 full backups anyway
-- grandfather/father/son and all that -- but make another one for
safety - and remove it before returning the machine.

 I am confident a hard disk
 would not cause an overheating issue like I am experiencing and even if it
 did then that can be addressed once no other issue is found.

You're asking for a warranty repair. /They/ decide the fault, not you.

 Their main reason for wanting the drive appears to be so that they can run
 their (no doubt windows only) diagnostic software on it.

This is perfectly reasonable and fair. That is the OS that they
supplied, as well.

 And my biggest
 issue with this is that by setting themselves up with nothing but expensive
 phone numbers

This is drivel. It took me 5sec to find their geographical number. You
are playing foolish games.

   I've been having this month long conversation with them which
 quite frankly would take less than 5 minutes over the phone.

So stop playing silly buggers and phone them.

  I really do
 have better things to do with my time.

Not from your transcript, you don't.

 Especially when I spend an entire day
 in waiting for collection only to find they haven't given me the account
 number for it!

You are being beyond unreasonable with them. I cannot blame them at all.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

2013-05-09 Thread Michael Holmes

I can also attest to issues with Packard Bell support. After having to RMA
a laptop 3 times for the same issue (hard drive failures, all within the
warranty period), I was finally placated when I got a full refund as
compensation... for them losing my laptop at the service center. Avoid at
all costs.


On 9 May 2013 15:13, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 9 May 2013 12:14, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I don't have anything 500gb in size to do a full backup onto

 I am sorry, but - WTF?

 And you call yourself an IT technician? If you don't have anything to
 backup onto, you're not a pro.

 Secondly, any pro with 10% of a clue wouldn't buy Packard Bell and
 wouldn't buy from Dixon's, but that is by the bye.

 Thirdly, your disk is almost certainly not 100% full and therefore you
 don't need ½TB of space.

 Fourthly, their request for the unit complete is entirely reasonable
 and by both refusing to call them, *and* refusing to supply the
 machine entire and intact, you are being very unreasonable. Having
 read your transcript, they seem to be doing everything to cooperate
 while you refuse to. You are refusing to honour the terms of the
 warranty, and as such, they are under no obligation to help you.

  and I'm not
  comfortable handing out my business' data at all.

 So back it up - obviously as a pro, you'd have 3 full backups anyway
 -- grandfather/father/son and all that -- but make another one for
 safety - and remove it before returning the machine.

  I am confident a hard disk
  would not cause an overheating issue like I am experiencing and even if
 it
  did then that can be addressed once no other issue is found.

 You're asking for a warranty repair. /They/ decide the fault, not you.

  Their main reason for wanting the drive appears to be so that they can
 run
  their (no doubt windows only) diagnostic software on it.

 This is perfectly reasonable and fair. That is the OS that they
 supplied, as well.

  And my biggest
  issue with this is that by setting themselves up with nothing but
 expensive
  phone numbers

 This is drivel. It took me 5sec to find their geographical number. You
 are playing foolish games.

I've been having this month long conversation with them which
  quite frankly would take less than 5 minutes over the phone.

 So stop playing silly buggers and phone them.

   I really do
  have better things to do with my time.

 Not from your transcript, you don't.

  Especially when I spend an entire day
  in waiting for collection only to find they haven't given me the account
  number for it!

 You are being beyond unreasonable with them. I cannot blame them at all.

 --
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

2013-05-09 Thread Nigel Verity

Gareth

While I think that Liam Proven's robust manner does him no credit, his advice 
is largely valid. If you don't allow Packard Bell, or any company acting on 
their behalf, access to the computer in its original physical configuration 
then you are not enabling them to comply with the terms of the warranty. The 
result will be stalemate.

You can probably get a pair of 500 Gig USB HDDs for around a hundred quid. 
These will enable you to make a couple of full backups before wiping the 
computer. They will be a wise investment for the future, regardless of whether 
you get the original PB back or end up with a replacement of some kind.

Nige
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

Gareth France wrote:
 I don't have anything 500gb in size to do a full backup onto and I'm
 not comfortable handing out my business' data at all.

I don't understand this. Surely if you need it backed up it already
is, and if you don't need it backed up you can just blitz the drive
and send the laptop off to them.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

With the price of my favourite gizmo at a rediculously low price [1] (I
have two of them). Just go and grab a 2.5 / 3.5 drive of your need. The
device is an awesome addition to any 'tool kit'.

Regards,

Phill.
1.
http://www.everydaysource.com/product/usb-2-0-to-ide-sata-converter-cable/PCABUSBX0017?s=1


On 9 May 2013 16:25, Nigel Verity nigelver...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Gareth

 While I think that Liam Proven's robust manner does him no credit, his
 advice is largely valid. If you don't allow Packard Bell, or any company
 acting on their behalf, access to the computer in its original physical
 configuration then you are not enabling them to comply with the terms of
 the warranty. The result will be stalemate.

 You can probably get a pair of 500 Gig USB HDDs for around a hundred quid.
 These will enable you to make a couple of full backups before wiping the
 computer. They will be a wise investment for the future, regardless of
 whether you get the original PB back or end up with a replacement of some
 kind.

 Nige

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!


On 09/05/13 15:13, Liam Proven wrote:

On 9 May 2013 12:14, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

I don't have anything 500gb in size to do a full backup onto

I am sorry, but - WTF?

And you call yourself an IT technician? If you don't have anything to
backup onto, you're not a pro.

Secondly, any pro with 10% of a clue wouldn't buy Packard Bell and
wouldn't buy from Dixon's, but that is by the bye.

Thirdly, your disk is almost certainly not 100% full and therefore you
don't need ½TB of space.

Fourthly, their request for the unit complete is entirely reasonable
and by both refusing to call them, *and* refusing to supply the
machine entire and intact, you are being very unreasonable. Having
read your transcript, they seem to be doing everything to cooperate
while you refuse to. You are refusing to honour the terms of the
warranty, and as such, they are under no obligation to help you.


and I'm not
comfortable handing out my business' data at all.

So back it up - obviously as a pro, you'd have 3 full backups anyway
-- grandfather/father/son and all that -- but make another one for
safety - and remove it before returning the machine.


I am confident a hard disk
would not cause an overheating issue like I am experiencing and even if it
did then that can be addressed once no other issue is found.

You're asking for a warranty repair. /They/ decide the fault, not you.


Their main reason for wanting the drive appears to be so that they can run
their (no doubt windows only) diagnostic software on it.

This is perfectly reasonable and fair. That is the OS that they
supplied, as well.


And my biggest
issue with this is that by setting themselves up with nothing but expensive
phone numbers

This is drivel. It took me 5sec to find their geographical number. You
are playing foolish games.


   I've been having this month long conversation with them which
quite frankly would take less than 5 minutes over the phone.

So stop playing silly buggers and phone them.


  I really do
have better things to do with my time.

Not from your transcript, you don't.


Especially when I spend an entire day
in waiting for collection only to find they haven't given me the account
number for it!

You are being beyond unreasonable with them. I cannot blame them at all.

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I have used saynoto0870 and got nowhere. Calling the numbers listed 
resulted in me being told to use the website support, which I have been. 
I have been an IT technician however insulting my technical ability 
based on my financial circumstances is unfair. I chose this laptop 
because it was the only one I was able to obtain at the time and I'm not 
in the position to spend 'a hundred quid' on a hard drive. That does not 
make me a poor technician by any means.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!


On 09/05/13 16:34, Avi Greenbury wrote:

Gareth France wrote:

I don't have anything 500gb in size to do a full backup onto and I'm
not comfortable handing out my business' data at all.

I don't understand this. Surely if you need it backed up it already
is, and if you don't need it backed up you can just blitz the drive
and send the laptop off to them.

The need to back something up does not magically produce the media to do 
so. Due to personal circumstances I seriously cut back on the amount of 
hardware I own. I can't afford to start buying stuff.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

Just to update everyone. I've had a further look at [1] and seems to have
several reports of the PSU setting alight. Thankfully, the model I got is
now back in stock from my original supplier [2] It pays to read the reviews!

Regards,

Phill.
1.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B001OORMVQ/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8showViewpoints=1sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
2.
http://www.usbnow.co.uk/p52/USB_2.0_IDE__SATA_Cable_%28with_Power_Supply%29/product_info.html?gclid=COaW4OS1ibcCFS7KtAodS00ASA

On 9 May 2013 16:38, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

On 09/05/13 16:34, Avi Greenbury wrote:

Gareth France wrote:

I don't have anything 500gb in size to do a full backup onto and I'm
not comfortable handing out my business' data at all.

I don't understand this. Surely if you need it backed up it already
is, and if you don't need it backed up you can just blitz the drive
and send the laptop off to them.

The need to back something up does not magically produce the media to do
so. Due to personal circumstances I seriously cut back on the amount of
hardware I own. I can't afford to start buying stuff.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

On 9 May 2013 16:36, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
884

 I have used saynoto0870 and got nowhere. Calling the numbers listed resulted
 in me being told to use the website support, which I have been. I have been
 an IT technician however insulting my technical ability based on my
 financial circumstances is unfair. I chose this laptop because it was the
 only one I was able to obtain at the time and I'm not in the position to
 spend 'a hundred quid' on a hard drive. That does not make me a poor
 technician by any means.

Uhuh. And yet you're buying brand-new hardware on the high street,
rather than, say, scouring your local Freecycle group, or buying used
kit off eBay?

Nope, sorry, I don't buy it.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

On 9 May 2013 16:25, Nigel Verity nigelver...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Gareth

 While I think that Liam Proven's robust manner does him no credit

Yeah, I get that a lot. :¬D

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!


On 09/05/13 18:03, Liam Proven wrote:

On 9 May 2013 16:36, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
884

I have used saynoto0870 and got nowhere. Calling the numbers listed resulted
in me being told to use the website support, which I have been. I have been
an IT technician however insulting my technical ability based on my
financial circumstances is unfair. I chose this laptop because it was the
only one I was able to obtain at the time and I'm not in the position to
spend 'a hundred quid' on a hard drive. That does not make me a poor
technician by any means.

Uhuh. And yet you're buying brand-new hardware on the high street,
rather than, say, scouring your local Freecycle group, or buying used
kit off eBay?

Nope, sorry, I don't buy it.

--
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884

Actually, no. This laptop was a birthday present from a friend, she 
bought it for me because my antiquated Dell was dying and I couldn't 
afford a replacement. Is there any particular reason why you seem to be 
looking for reasons to look down on me? Or does this just come naturally 
to you?


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

On 9 May 2013 18:06, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 09/05/13 18:03, Liam Proven wrote:

 On 9 May 2013 16:36, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 884

 I have used saynoto0870 and got nowhere. Calling the numbers listed
 resulted
 in me being told to use the website support, which I have been. I have
 been
 an IT technician however insulting my technical ability based on my
 financial circumstances is unfair. I chose this laptop because it was the
 only one I was able to obtain at the time and I'm not in the position to
 spend 'a hundred quid' on a hard drive. That does not make me a poor
 technician by any means.

 Uhuh. And yet you're buying brand-new hardware on the high street,
 rather than, say, scouring your local Freecycle group, or buying used
 kit off eBay?

 Nope, sorry, I don't buy it.

 Actually, no. This laptop was a birthday present from a friend, she bought
 it for me because my antiquated Dell was dying and I couldn't afford a
 replacement. Is there any particular reason why you seem to be looking for
 reasons to look down on me? Or does this just come naturally to you?

I am not looking down upon you. I am a fairly penniless freelancer
myself, as my business has suffered dramatically from the credit
crunch.

But what I am trying to point out to you is that you are acting in an
irrational and unfair fashion. The company is trying to help you, but
you are not playing by their rules. Neither I nor Packard-Bell is
victimising you, but if you want their help, you have to meet them in
the middle.

As an example - I can't afford new hardware either. I have not had a
new machine since 2001. My current machine is a Core 2 Quad Extreme
running at 3GHz with 8GB of RAM. I got it on my local Freegle group.
It cost me £3.80 - the cost of a return rail fare from Wimbledon to
Stoneleigh. I cycled to and from the station. I transplanted into it
the graphics card and hard disks from my old machine, which was a free
cast-off from a friend, as was the one before that.

(OK, true, I did soon after have to replace the hard disks when they
failed. That cost me £43 for a terabyte drive.)

If you need to back up your stuff, there are ways to do that. You
could use Google Drive, or Dropbox, or Ubuntu One, or all of them. You
could burn it onto DVDs, which are very cheap now - you can buy
hundreds of gigs for the cost of a small cheap meal. £3 will buy you a
USB to SATA cable, and then you could collect some old disks from
Freegle or the like and backup your stuff on to them.

Presumably you have not generated all this data from scratch since you
got the laptop. Do you still have the old computer? Use its hard
disk(s) for backups using the above-mentioned external-drive cable.

But refusing to send the machine in its entirety, and refusing to
phone the supplier, and then complaining that they are not  helping
you, is grossly unfair and unreasonable. You want them to help you.
Well, play the game, cooperate with them, or they can't, and they are
not to blame.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!




I am not looking down upon you. I am a fairly penniless freelancer
myself, as my business has suffered dramatically from the credit
crunch.

But what I am trying to point out to you is that you are acting in an
irrational and unfair fashion. The company is trying to help you, but
you are not playing by their rules. Neither I nor Packard-Bell is
victimising you, but if you want their help, you have to meet them in
the middle.

As an example - I can't afford new hardware either. I have not had a
new machine since 2001. My current machine is a Core 2 Quad Extreme
running at 3GHz with 8GB of RAM. I got it on my local Freegle group.
It cost me £3.80 - the cost of a return rail fare from Wimbledon to
Stoneleigh. I cycled to and from the station. I transplanted into it
the graphics card and hard disks from my old machine, which was a free
cast-off from a friend, as was the one before that.

(OK, true, I did soon after have to replace the hard disks when they
failed. That cost me £43 for a terabyte drive.)

If you need to back up your stuff, there are ways to do that. You
could use Google Drive, or Dropbox, or Ubuntu One, or all of them. You
could burn it onto DVDs, which are very cheap now - you can buy
hundreds of gigs for the cost of a small cheap meal. £3 will buy you a
USB to SATA cable, and then you could collect some old disks from
Freegle or the like and backup your stuff on to them.

Presumably you have not generated all this data from scratch since you
got the laptop. Do you still have the old computer? Use its hard
disk(s) for backups using the above-mentioned external-drive cable.

But refusing to send the machine in its entirety, and refusing to
phone the supplier, and then complaining that they are not  helping
you, is grossly unfair and unreasonable. You want them to help you.
Well, play the game, cooperate with them, or they can't, and they are
not to blame.

You seem to be missing the point. Firstly my old machine is no more and 
if I backup to DVDs or split my system into umpteen small drives how 
exactly do I run my business while my machine is away? I can't do an 
online backup as I'm on mobile broadband and the data allowances are 
pitiful. I require access to the contents of my drive in a rational 
fashion on a day to day basis. As it stands it will just be plugged into 
an old desktop and will serve to cover the essentials until my laptop 
returns.


My issue isn't with them requiring the hard disk, indeed they have 
agreed that it will be accepted without. My issue is that as as user of 
PAYG mobile I can call mobiles and geographic landlines. Packard Bell 
have made themselves unreachable by someone in my position, as have many 
businesses. My issue is that it should not take a month of email ping 
pong to arrange something as simple as a warranty return.


I also have issue with the build quality. This machine comes with 4gb 
RAM and a 500gb HDD, my old Dell only came with 60Gb HDD yet still 
outperformed this machine on day to day tasks. It seems almost as if 
there is a large bottleneck in the system, that it has the power but is 
unwilling to use it. Had I been given the choice of machine this one 
certainly would not have been anywhere near the front of my list.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 I thought I would just bring the experiences I'm having with Packard Bell /
 Acer to everyone's attention. I've been unhappy with my laptop since the day
 I got it and it seems to be falling apart very rapidly. I have been trying
 to get it looked at but it's like pulling teeth!

 Oddly enough linux hasn't been the biggest stumbling block. Anyway, if
 anyone fancies a giggle the entire conversation with them is logged on my
 blog page:

 http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=209

After reading this, it looks like you've had a fairly typical
experience: you've engaged outsourced frontline support for a low-tier
electronics manufacturer, and you've wandered outside the bounds of
their scripts.  When dealing with a box shifter like Packard Bell, the
easiest way to get a result is conform as much as possible to their
requests and get the machine shipped off as soon as possible
(preferably covered by a home and contents or business asset policy).
If you can send it back with a relatively stock OS install, even
better.

And I'm afraid I agree with Liam here.  If the data on the laptop (one
which you readily admit is junk) is of any material importance to
you or your business, get it backed up by whatever means necessary.  I
personally use a mixture of rsnapshot (for my Ubuntu servers) and Time
Machine (for my Mac desktops/laptops) to give me a comprehensive layer
of recoverable backup data.  If you're unable to invest in a hard disc
to drop data onto, have you considered a bunch of DVD-Rs?  Or perhaps
you'd be able to temporarily borrow a USB HDD, or USB-SATA adapter and
a regular 2.5/3.5 drive, from a fellow IT type?  Perhaps someone on
list has some spare kit they could punt your way?

Also, you're concerned about retaining your data to run your business
- how will you access the data if the laptop is gone?  If you're
planning to use the Dell you mentioned, do you literally have 500GiB
used on your Packard Bell?  If it's all in $HOME, do a du -sch ~ - if
the answer is  free capacity of Dell computer, sorted!  If not, see
borrowing tips above!

Re: the phone number, just search for Acer on saynoto0870.com - there
are several hits which match or closely match the number you mentioned
in your blog post.

I think you're unnecessarily making a rod for your own back here when
some creative thinking could help you.  Rather than asking us to
giggle at a bunch of hapless support monkeys being forced outside of
the scope of their limited frontline support capabilities, ask the
community to help you out! :)

-n

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!


On 09/05/13 18:38, William Anderson wrote:

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

I thought I would just bring the experiences I'm having with Packard Bell /
Acer to everyone's attention. I've been unhappy with my laptop since the day
I got it and it seems to be falling apart very rapidly. I have been trying
to get it looked at but it's like pulling teeth!

Oddly enough linux hasn't been the biggest stumbling block. Anyway, if
anyone fancies a giggle the entire conversation with them is logged on my
blog page:

http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=209

After reading this, it looks like you've had a fairly typical
experience: you've engaged outsourced frontline support for a low-tier
electronics manufacturer, and you've wandered outside the bounds of
their scripts.  When dealing with a box shifter like Packard Bell, the
easiest way to get a result is conform as much as possible to their
requests and get the machine shipped off as soon as possible
(preferably covered by a home and contents or business asset policy).
If you can send it back with a relatively stock OS install, even
better.

And I'm afraid I agree with Liam here.  If the data on the laptop (one
which you readily admit is junk) is of any material importance to
you or your business, get it backed up by whatever means necessary.  I
personally use a mixture of rsnapshot (for my Ubuntu servers) and Time
Machine (for my Mac desktops/laptops) to give me a comprehensive layer
of recoverable backup data.  If you're unable to invest in a hard disc
to drop data onto, have you considered a bunch of DVD-Rs?  Or perhaps
you'd be able to temporarily borrow a USB HDD, or USB-SATA adapter and
a regular 2.5/3.5 drive, from a fellow IT type?  Perhaps someone on
list has some spare kit they could punt your way?

Also, you're concerned about retaining your data to run your business
- how will you access the data if the laptop is gone?  If you're
planning to use the Dell you mentioned, do you literally have 500GiB
used on your Packard Bell?  If it's all in $HOME, do a du -sch ~ - if
the answer is  free capacity of Dell computer, sorted!  If not, see
borrowing tips above!

Re: the phone number, just search for Acer on saynoto0870.com - there
are several hits which match or closely match the number you mentioned
in your blog post.

I think you're unnecessarily making a rod for your own back here when
some creative thinking could help you.  Rather than asking us to
giggle at a bunch of hapless support monkeys being forced outside of
the scope of their limited frontline support capabilities, ask the
community to help you out! :)

-n

I'll be using a desktop for the duration the machine is away. I have 
been looking at incremental backup solutions. What I'd like to do is 
setup a system where it connects to an FTP server and only backs up the 
data that has changed since last backup. Something I would trigger 
rather than scheduled as I'm on mobile broadband and would need to do 
backups whenever I was near a proper broadband connection. I've found 
quite a few solutions which 'sort of' do this as I'd like but most don't 
cut it and some simply refused to connect to my server. Do you have any 
suggestions which may help?


Bad customer service is something which really winds me up and you have 
hit the nail on the head there. This is the customer service equivalent 
of painting by numbers. The collection has been arranged now and fingers 
crossed they will fix it. I know that my laptops always take quite a 
pounding but I can only think of one other which faired this badly, made 
by a company called Hi-Grade. I really don't expect a machine to be 
virging on unusable after only 8 months, regardless of how cheap it is.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!


On 09/05/13 18:38, William Anderson wrote:

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

I thought I would just bring the experiences I'm having with Packard Bell /
Acer to everyone's attention. I've been unhappy with my laptop since the day
I got it and it seems to be falling apart very rapidly. I have been trying
to get it looked at but it's like pulling teeth!

Oddly enough linux hasn't been the biggest stumbling block. Anyway, if
anyone fancies a giggle the entire conversation with them is logged on my
blog page:

http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=209

After reading this, it looks like you've had a fairly typical
experience: you've engaged outsourced frontline support for a low-tier
electronics manufacturer, and you've wandered outside the bounds of
their scripts.  When dealing with a box shifter like Packard Bell, the
easiest way to get a result is conform as much as possible to their
requests and get the machine shipped off as soon as possible
(preferably covered by a home and contents or business asset policy).
If you can send it back with a relatively stock OS install, even
better.

And I'm afraid I agree with Liam here.  If the data on the laptop (one
which you readily admit is junk) is of any material importance to
you or your business, get it backed up by whatever means necessary.  I
personally use a mixture of rsnapshot (for my Ubuntu servers) and Time
Machine (for my Mac desktops/laptops) to give me a comprehensive layer
of recoverable backup data.  If you're unable to invest in a hard disc
to drop data onto, have you considered a bunch of DVD-Rs?  Or perhaps
you'd be able to temporarily borrow a USB HDD, or USB-SATA adapter and
a regular 2.5/3.5 drive, from a fellow IT type?  Perhaps someone on
list has some spare kit they could punt your way?

Also, you're concerned about retaining your data to run your business
- how will you access the data if the laptop is gone?  If you're
planning to use the Dell you mentioned, do you literally have 500GiB
used on your Packard Bell?  If it's all in $HOME, do a du -sch ~ - if
the answer is  free capacity of Dell computer, sorted!  If not, see
borrowing tips above!

Re: the phone number, just search for Acer on saynoto0870.com - there
are several hits which match or closely match the number you mentioned
in your blog post.

I think you're unnecessarily making a rod for your own back here when
some creative thinking could help you.  Rather than asking us to
giggle at a bunch of hapless support monkeys being forced outside of
the scope of their limited frontline support capabilities, ask the
community to help you out! :)

-n

I'll be using a desktop for the duration the machine is away. I have 
been looking at incremental backup solutions. What I'd like to do is 
setup a system where it connects to an FTP server and only backs up the 
data that has changed since last backup. Something I would trigger 
rather than scheduled as I'm on mobile broadband and would need to do 
backups whenever I was near a proper broadband connection. I've found 
quite a few solutions which 'sort of' do this as I'd like but most don't 
cut it and some simply refused to connect to my server. Do you have any 
suggestions which may help?


Bad customer service is something which really winds me up and you have 
hit the nail on the head there. This is the customer service equivalent 
of painting by numbers. The collection has been arranged now and fingers 
crossed they will fix it. I know that my laptops always take quite a 
pounding but I can only think of one other which faired this badly, made 
by a company called Hi-Grade. I really don't expect a machine to be 
virging on unusable after only 8 months, regardless of how cheap it is.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!


On 09/05/13 18:46, Gareth France wrote:

On 09/05/13 18:38, William Anderson wrote:

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Gareth France
gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

I thought I would just bring the experiences I'm having with Packard
Bell /
Acer to everyone's attention. I've been unhappy with my laptop since
the day
I got it and it seems to be falling apart very rapidly. I have been
trying
to get it looked at but it's like pulling teeth!

Oddly enough linux hasn't been the biggest stumbling block. Anyway, if
anyone fancies a giggle the entire conversation with them is logged
on my
blog page:

http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=209

After reading this, it looks like you've had a fairly typical
experience: you've engaged outsourced frontline support for a low-tier
electronics manufacturer, and you've wandered outside the bounds of
their scripts.  When dealing with a box shifter like Packard Bell, the
easiest way to get a result is conform as much as possible to their
requests and get the machine shipped off as soon as possible
(preferably covered by a home and contents or business asset policy).
If you can send it back with a relatively stock OS install, even
better.

And I'm afraid I agree with Liam here.  If the data on the laptop (one
which you readily admit is junk) is of any material importance to
you or your business, get it backed up by whatever means necessary.  I
personally use a mixture of rsnapshot (for my Ubuntu servers) and Time
Machine (for my Mac desktops/laptops) to give me a comprehensive layer
of recoverable backup data.  If you're unable to invest in a hard disc
to drop data onto, have you considered a bunch of DVD-Rs?  Or perhaps
you'd be able to temporarily borrow a USB HDD, or USB-SATA adapter and
a regular 2.5/3.5 drive, from a fellow IT type?  Perhaps someone on
list has some spare kit they could punt your way?

Also, you're concerned about retaining your data to run your business
- how will you access the data if the laptop is gone?  If you're
planning to use the Dell you mentioned, do you literally have 500GiB
used on your Packard Bell?  If it's all in $HOME, do a du -sch ~ - if
the answer is  free capacity of Dell computer, sorted!  If not, see
borrowing tips above!

Re: the phone number, just search for Acer on saynoto0870.com - there
are several hits which match or closely match the number you mentioned
in your blog post.

I think you're unnecessarily making a rod for your own back here when
some creative thinking could help you.  Rather than asking us to
giggle at a bunch of hapless support monkeys being forced outside of
the scope of their limited frontline support capabilities, ask the
community to help you out! :)

-n


I'll be using a desktop for the duration the machine is away. I have
been looking at incremental backup solutions. What I'd like to do is
setup a system where it connects to an FTP server and only backs up the
data that has changed since last backup. Something I would trigger
rather than scheduled as I'm on mobile broadband and would need to do
backups whenever I was near a proper broadband connection. I've found
quite a few solutions which 'sort of' do this as I'd like but most don't
cut it and some simply refused to connect to my server. Do you have any
suggestions which may help?


Script it (simple google search will help if you dont know how!) ignore 
the bit about cron- that will automate, just click the file to execute 
when connected by b/b



Bad customer service is something which really winds me up and you have
hit the nail on the head there. This is the customer service equivalent
of painting by numbers. The collection has been arranged now and fingers
crossed they will fix it. I know that my laptops always take quite a
pounding but I can only think of one other which faired this badly, made
by a company called Hi-Grade. I really don't expect a machine to be
virging on unusable after only 8 months, regardless of how cheap it is.



I know what you mean but as with most things these days it's all run at 
the 'lowest common denominator' which does mean some compromise on your 
part :)


Pete



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....

On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 09:39 +, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:
 I find it very interesting that nearly four years ago, when I bought
 my Toshiba Netbook with Ubuntu Remix from Dixons, they were selling
 like hot cakes, far better than the equivalent Windows machines.
 Then suddenly, overnight, they disappeared. Now what retailer would
 remove a best-selling line instantly like that, unless there was some
 sort of external pressure to do so? ;-( 

Agreed - I bought my first netbook from PC World [during a sale] with an
XFCE Linux distro - not Ubuntu but I soon converted it - the point is I
bought it with a Linux distro.  It had a hardware fail a short time
after  once back from a replacement mainboard the shop actually
reloaded the OS on the spot.. with their instantly to hand distro CD.
Shop was actually impressed that they could do this so quickly and
easily!
I occasionally go back to same store - not a Linux machine in sight.
Those in the know at the store share my disappointment - but the average
comment is ..but we have to sell what the customers expect.

Therein lies the weakness - we must educate to expect better.

-- 
Cheers,
Bill B. [SuperEngineer]

--
-Registered Linux User 523667-
-Registered Ubuntu User 32366-
-Free  as in Freedom--


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

[1] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/rsync

On 9 May 2013 19:27, Phill Whiteside phi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

For updating a backup, rsync[1] may be of help. (I'm a tester so use zsync
but I believe that is better tuned for us updating iso's as it has a
separate link). Rsync is pretty much ideally suited for you need. It will
only update files that need updating.

Regards,

Phill.

On 9 May 2013 19:04, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote:

On 09/05/13 18:46, Gareth France wrote:

On 09/05/13 18:38, William Anderson wrote:

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Gareth France
gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

I thought I would just bring the experiences I'm having with Packard
Bell /
Acer to everyone's attention. I've been unhappy with my laptop since
the day
I got it and it seems to be falling apart very rapidly. I have been
trying
to get it looked at but it's like pulling teeth!

Oddly enough linux hasn't been the biggest stumbling block. Anyway, if
anyone fancies a giggle the entire conversation with them is logged
on my
blog page:

http://cliftonts.co.uk/**cubuntu/?p=209http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=209

After reading this, it looks like you've had a fairly typical
experience: you've engaged outsourced frontline support for a low-tier
electronics manufacturer, and you've wandered outside the bounds of
their scripts. When dealing with a box shifter like Packard Bell, the
easiest way to get a result is conform as much as possible to their
requests and get the machine shipped off as soon as possible
(preferably covered by a home and contents or business asset policy).
If you can send it back with a relatively stock OS install, even
better.

And I'm afraid I agree with Liam here. If the data on the laptop (one
which you readily admit is junk) is of any material importance to
you or your business, get it backed up by whatever means necessary. I
personally use a mixture of rsnapshot (for my Ubuntu servers) and Time
Machine (for my Mac desktops/laptops) to give me a comprehensive layer
of recoverable backup data. If you're unable to invest in a hard disc
to drop data onto, have you considered a bunch of DVD-Rs? Or perhaps
you'd be able to temporarily borrow a USB HDD, or USB-SATA adapter and
a regular 2.5/3.5 drive, from a fellow IT type? Perhaps someone on
list has some spare kit they could punt your way?

Also, you're concerned about retaining your data to run your business
- how will you access the data if the laptop is gone? If you're
planning to use the Dell you mentioned, do you literally have 500GiB
used on your Packard Bell? If it's all in $HOME, do a du -sch ~ - if
the answer is free capacity of Dell computer, sorted! If not, see
borrowing tips above!

Re: the phone number, just search for Acer on saynoto0870.com - there
are several hits which match or closely match the number you mentioned
in your blog post.

I think you're unnecessarily making a rod for your own back here when
some creative thinking could help you. Rather than asking us to
giggle at a bunch of hapless support monkeys being forced outside of
the scope of their limited frontline support capabilities, ask the
community to help you out! :)

-n

I'll be using a desktop for the duration the machine is away. I have
been looking at incremental backup solutions. What I'd like to do is
setup a system where it connects to an FTP server and only backs up the
data that has changed since last backup. Something I would trigger
rather than scheduled as I'm on mobile broadband and would need to do
backups whenever I was near a proper broadband connection. I've found
quite a few solutions which 'sort of' do this as I'd like but most don't
cut it and some simply refused to connect to my server. Do you have any
suggestions which may help?

Script it (simple google search will help if you dont know how!) ignore
the bit about cron- that will automate, just click the file to execute when
connected by b/b

Bad customer service is something which really winds me up and you have
hit the nail on the head there. This is the customer service equivalent
of painting by numbers. The collection has been arranged now and fingers
crossed they will fix it. I know that my laptops always take quite a
pounding but I can only think of one other which faired this badly, made
by a company called Hi-Grade. I really don't expect a machine to be
virging on unusable after only 8 months, regardless of how cheap it is.

I know what you mean but as with most things these days it's all run at
the 'lowest common denominator' which does mean some compromise on your
part :)

Pete

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

Regards,

Phill.

On 9 May 2013 19:04, pete smout psmo...@live.com wrote:

On 09/05/13 18:46, Gareth France wrote:

On 09/05/13 18:38, William Anderson wrote:

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Gareth France
gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

Oddly enough linux hasn't been the biggest stumbling block. Anyway, if
anyone fancies a giggle the entire conversation with them is logged
on my
blog page:

http://cliftonts.co.uk/**cubuntu/?p=209http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=209

Re: the phone number, just search for Acer on saynoto0870.com - there
are several hits which match or closely match the number you mentioned
in your blog post.

-n

Script it (simple google search will help if you dont know how!) ignore
the bit about cron- that will automate, just click the file to execute when
connected by b/b

I know what you mean but as with most things these days it's all run at
the 'lowest common denominator' which does mean some compromise on your
part :)

Pete

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!


On 09/05/13 19:27, Phill Whiteside wrote:
For updating a backup, rsync[1] may be of help. (I'm a tester so use 
zsync but I believe that is better tuned for us updating iso's as it 
has a separate link). Rsync is pretty much ideally suited for you 
need. It will only update files that need updating.


Regards,

Phill.

I did look this up on google but didn't have the time to fully explore 
it. My wonderful ftp server locks me out if I send too many requests it 
doesn't like. I downloaded something from the software centre which 
claimed to do the job, it didn't, it just got me locked out. So I wasn't 
able to try anything else until my provider released my IP. I'll have to 
give it another go when I get a decent connection and a day to myself.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'll be using a desktop for the duration the machine is away. I have been
 looking at incremental backup solutions. What I'd like to do is setup a
 system where it connects to an FTP server and only backs up the data that
 has changed since last backup. Something I would trigger rather than
 scheduled as I'm on mobile broadband and would need to do backups whenever I
 was near a proper broadband connection. I've found quite a few solutions
 which 'sort of' do this as I'd like but most don't cut it and some simply
 refused to connect to my server. Do you have any suggestions which may help?

Don't use FTP unless you plan to pre-encrypt the backup first (since
you will be sending the data in the clear; duplicity will do this
using gpg as the pre-upload/store encrypt mechanism).  If you can
backup to somewhere that does ssh+rsync, use rsnapshot.  Both are
packaged within Ubuntu.  rsnapshot prefers to run automatically from
cron (/etc/cron.d/rsnapshot) but you can run it manually if you
prefer.

You can get a cheap Ubuntu server from kimsufi.co.uk (OVH) for a
tenner a month that has 0.5TiB storage and 5TiB/mo traffic allowance,
ample as a backup/DR solution.

 Bad customer service is something which really winds me up and you have hit
 the nail on the head there. This is the customer service equivalent of
 painting by numbers. The collection has been arranged now and fingers

I wasn't suggesting you were receiving bad customer service, I was
suggesting you were receiving *cheap* customer service, with limited
scope to move beyond the standard support script.

Just out of interest, how have you handled this hard disc issue?

 crossed they will fix it. I know that my laptops always take quite a
 pounding but I can only think of one other which faired this badly, made by
 a company called Hi-Grade. I really don't expect a machine to be virging on
 unusable after only 8 months, regardless of how cheap it is.

You're surely aware of the consumer maxim, you get what you pay for.
 Granted this is a personal preference within my own realm of income
and affordability, but this is why I usually wait until I have enough
cash to buy an Apple computer.  The build quality is usually stunning,
and the level of support is unsurpassed.  If you're going to
buy/accept a system manufactured by a boxshifter like Packard Bell,
don't expect stellar levels of support.

In my experience, the cheaper the laptop, the less reliability you
should expect from it, and the less support you should expect from the
manufacturer.  I have literally kicked the heck out of my MacBook Pros
and they have all lived to tell the tale (the slight dent on the lid
of one notwithstanding).  I've also suffered maladies such as dead
GPUs on the mainboard, and they have been dealt with inside of 90
minutes (albeit under warranty with the highest tier of support
pre-purchased [ProCare]).

You get what you pay for.

-n

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

speaking of which (I have kimsufi)

I think I need to have tidy up :)

Alloc PE / Size   454400 / 1.73 TiB
  Free  PE / Size   19842 / 77.51 GiB

How could I EVER use up the best part of a 2TB disk!!!

Regards,

Phill.

On 9 May 2013 19:51, William Anderson ne...@well.com wrote:

 On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I'll be using a desktop for the duration the machine is away. I have been
  looking at incremental backup solutions. What I'd like to do is setup a
  system where it connects to an FTP server and only backs up the data that
  has changed since last backup. Something I would trigger rather than
  scheduled as I'm on mobile broadband and would need to do backups
 whenever I
  was near a proper broadband connection. I've found quite a few solutions
  which 'sort of' do this as I'd like but most don't cut it and some simply
  refused to connect to my server. Do you have any suggestions which may
 help?

 Don't use FTP unless you plan to pre-encrypt the backup first (since
 you will be sending the data in the clear; duplicity will do this
 using gpg as the pre-upload/store encrypt mechanism).  If you can
 backup to somewhere that does ssh+rsync, use rsnapshot.  Both are
 packaged within Ubuntu.  rsnapshot prefers to run automatically from
 cron (/etc/cron.d/rsnapshot) but you can run it manually if you
 prefer.

 You can get a cheap Ubuntu server from kimsufi.co.uk (OVH) for a
 tenner a month that has 0.5TiB storage and 5TiB/mo traffic allowance,
 ample as a backup/DR solution.

  Bad customer service is something which really winds me up and you have
 hit
  the nail on the head there. This is the customer service equivalent of
  painting by numbers. The collection has been arranged now and fingers

 I wasn't suggesting you were receiving bad customer service, I was
 suggesting you were receiving *cheap* customer service, with limited
 scope to move beyond the standard support script.

 Just out of interest, how have you handled this hard disc issue?

  crossed they will fix it. I know that my laptops always take quite a
  pounding but I can only think of one other which faired this badly, made
 by
  a company called Hi-Grade. I really don't expect a machine to be virging
 on
  unusable after only 8 months, regardless of how cheap it is.

 You're surely aware of the consumer maxim, you get what you pay for.
  Granted this is a personal preference within my own realm of income
 and affordability, but this is why I usually wait until I have enough
 cash to buy an Apple computer.  The build quality is usually stunning,
 and the level of support is unsurpassed.  If you're going to
 buy/accept a system manufactured by a boxshifter like Packard Bell,
 don't expect stellar levels of support.

 In my experience, the cheaper the laptop, the less reliability you
 should expect from it, and the less support you should expect from the
 manufacturer.  I have literally kicked the heck out of my MacBook Pros
 and they have all lived to tell the tale (the slight dent on the lid
 of one notwithstanding).  I've also suffered maladies such as dead
 GPUs on the mainboard, and they have been dealt with inside of 90
 minutes (albeit under warranty with the highest tier of support
 pre-purchased [ProCare]).

 You get what you pay for.

 -n

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!


On 09/05/13 19:51, William Anderson wrote:

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

I'll be using a desktop for the duration the machine is away. I have been
looking at incremental backup solutions. What I'd like to do is setup a
system where it connects to an FTP server and only backs up the data that
has changed since last backup. Something I would trigger rather than
scheduled as I'm on mobile broadband and would need to do backups whenever I
was near a proper broadband connection. I've found quite a few solutions
which 'sort of' do this as I'd like but most don't cut it and some simply
refused to connect to my server. Do you have any suggestions which may help?

Don't use FTP unless you plan to pre-encrypt the backup first (since
you will be sending the data in the clear; duplicity will do this
using gpg as the pre-upload/store encrypt mechanism).  If you can
backup to somewhere that does ssh+rsync, use rsnapshot.  Both are
packaged within Ubuntu.  rsnapshot prefers to run automatically from
cron (/etc/cron.d/rsnapshot) but you can run it manually if you
prefer.

You can get a cheap Ubuntu server from kimsufi.co.uk (OVH) for a
tenner a month that has 0.5TiB storage and 5TiB/mo traffic allowance,
ample as a backup/DR solution.


Bad customer service is something which really winds me up and you have hit
the nail on the head there. This is the customer service equivalent of
painting by numbers. The collection has been arranged now and fingers

I wasn't suggesting you were receiving bad customer service, I was
suggesting you were receiving *cheap* customer service, with limited
scope to move beyond the standard support script.

Just out of interest, how have you handled this hard disc issue?


crossed they will fix it. I know that my laptops always take quite a
pounding but I can only think of one other which faired this badly, made by
a company called Hi-Grade. I really don't expect a machine to be virging on
unusable after only 8 months, regardless of how cheap it is.

You're surely aware of the consumer maxim, you get what you pay for.
  Granted this is a personal preference within my own realm of income
and affordability, but this is why I usually wait until I have enough
cash to buy an Apple computer.  The build quality is usually stunning,
and the level of support is unsurpassed.  If you're going to
buy/accept a system manufactured by a boxshifter like Packard Bell,
don't expect stellar levels of support.

In my experience, the cheaper the laptop, the less reliability you
should expect from it, and the less support you should expect from the
manufacturer.  I have literally kicked the heck out of my MacBook Pros
and they have all lived to tell the tale (the slight dent on the lid
of one notwithstanding).  I've also suffered maladies such as dead
GPUs on the mainboard, and they have been dealt with inside of 90
minutes (albeit under warranty with the highest tier of support
pre-purchased [ProCare]).

You get what you pay for.

-n

I'll bare the ftp advice in mind and I agree you do get what you pay 
for, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating, especially when they 
treat you like an idiot when you know full well what the problem is.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

scp[1] is more powerful than ftp.

sftp (which most can support) or better vsftp (which some servers support)
are about as safe. ftp is akin to when we used rcp with no encryption and
little check of 'who' that is why it supports anonymous.

That is a very quick 101 on ftp, so before ubuntu-uk goes nuts at my very
simple description of it... [1]

Regards,

Phill.
1. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/TransferFiles
2. https://help.ubuntu.com/13.04/serverguide/ftp-server.html

On 9 May 2013 20:05, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com wrote:

On 09/05/13 19:51, William Anderson wrote:

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Gareth France gareth.fra...@gmail.com
wrote:

I'll be using a desktop for the duration the machine is away. I have been
looking at incremental backup solutions. What I'd like to do is setup a
system where it connects to an FTP server and only backs up the data that
has changed since last backup. Something I would trigger rather than
scheduled as I'm on mobile broadband and would need to do backups
whenever I
was near a proper broadband connection. I've found quite a few solutions
which 'sort of' do this as I'd like but most don't cut it and some simply
refused to connect to my server. Do you have any suggestions which may
help?

Don't use FTP unless you plan to pre-encrypt the backup first (since
you will be sending the data in the clear; duplicity will do this
using gpg as the pre-upload/store encrypt mechanism). If you can
backup to somewhere that does ssh+rsync, use rsnapshot. Both are
packaged within Ubuntu. rsnapshot prefers to run automatically from
cron (/etc/cron.d/rsnapshot) but you can run it manually if you
prefer.

You can get a cheap Ubuntu server from kimsufi.co.uk (OVH) for a
tenner a month that has 0.5TiB storage and 5TiB/mo traffic allowance,
ample as a backup/DR solution.

I wasn't suggesting you were receiving bad customer service, I was
suggesting you were receiving *cheap* customer service, with limited
scope to move beyond the standard support script.

Just out of interest, how have you handled this hard disc issue?

crossed they will fix it. I know that my laptops always take quite a
pounding but I can only think of one other which faired this badly, made
by
a company called Hi-Grade. I really don't expect a machine to be virging
on
unusable after only 8 months, regardless of how cheap it is.

You're surely aware of the consumer maxim, you get what you pay for.
Granted this is a personal preference within my own realm of income
and affordability, but this is why I usually wait until I have enough
cash to buy an Apple computer. The build quality is usually stunning,
and the level of support is unsurpassed. If you're going to
buy/accept a system manufactured by a boxshifter like Packard Bell,
don't expect stellar levels of support.

In my experience, the cheaper the laptop, the less reliability you
should expect from it, and the less support you should expect from the
manufacturer. I have literally kicked the heck out of my MacBook Pros
and they have all lived to tell the tale (the slight dent on the lid
of one notwithstanding). I've also suffered maladies such as dead
GPUs on the mainboard, and they have been dealt with inside of 90
minutes (albeit under warranty with the highest tier of support
pre-purchased [ProCare]).

You get what you pay for.

-n

I'll bare the ftp advice in mind and I agree you do get what you pay
for, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating, especially when they
treat you like an idiot when you know full well what the problem is.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

William Anderson wrote:
 Don't use FTP unless you plan to pre-encrypt the backup first (since
 you will be sending the data in the clear;

Even if you encrypt the data, you'd still be sending credentials in
the clear if you use FTP.

But, fortunately it's not the 1970s any more and so you can use SFTP
(otherwise known as scp). Every FTP client supports it and there's not
really any excuse for anybody offering server space to not offer it.

Either way, though, if you're trying to conserve bandwidth you want to
do rsync natively rather than try to argue it over an FTP connection.

-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

Phill Whiteside wrote:
 sftp (which most can support) or better vsftp (which some servers support) are

vsftp is an FTP daemon, it's got nothing much to do with sftp.

-- 
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[ubuntu-uk] The problem with Bug #1

The problem with not resolving bug #1 stares me in the face. That being
the fact that EEC, UsA? etc are prepared to force Microsoft to offer
more than their own browser... but are not prepared to take on the real
monopoly.  That being the fact that manufactures should offer a dual
boot at purchase... the only problem being the wording:

Dear purchaser, please choose:
- paying extra on your purchase for Windows
- using a free, legal  simple system that is better


Hmmm

Well  - that's my sensible thinking done for this year  ;)
bfn
-- 
Cheers,
Bill B. [SuperEngineer]

--
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-Registered Ubuntu User 32366-
-Free  as in Freedom--


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....

2013-05-09 Thread alan c


On 09/05/13 12:34, scoundrel50a wrote:

On 09/05/2013 10:39, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:

On 05/06/2013 01:55 PM, Barry Drake wrote:

On 02/05/13 16:14, alan c wrote:

I have often got undesirable responses from almost ANY 'shops' selling
PCs, although I have not tried much now that Android is blossoming so
well, and Chromebooks.


I have posted my actions in full at: Ubuntu bug #1 - see:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1




I find it very interesting that nearly four years ago, when I bought
my Toshiba Netbook with Ubuntu Remix from Dixons, they were selling
like hot cakes, far better than the equivalent Windows machines.
Then suddenly, overnight, they disappeared. Now what retailer would
remove a best-selling line instantly like that, /unless /there was
some sort of external pressure to do so? ;-(




When I bought my Acer Aspire with Linux Lite on it, the guy in PCWorld
said that it might not connect to the internet and there was no support,
and they were getting loads returned because nobody knew how to use it,
so if I couldnt get it to work, I could get my money back..which
tells me that is why Linux based computers disappeared.


A few years ago, I requested, and was granted, a chat with the Manager 
of PCWorld (Reading). I  asked if I could do a small demo of (Ubuntu) 
near the door one weekend, and hand out leaflets. I showed one of my 
(computer fair) leaflets. It was a relaxed conversation. He simply asked

'Can I sell it?'
I said,
'Well, it is free.'
He responded, before hurriedly rushing off,
'Not interested.'

--
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....

On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 21:51 +0100, alan c wrote:
 It was a relaxed conversation. He simply asked
 'Can I sell it?' 

Back to basics...  he believed his company made money by selling
Windows... what if he were told he could sell his machines for less by
not paying/forcing Ms licenses?

A can of worms, I know.  At store level that would get nowhere... but at
HQ level?
-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....

2013-05-09 Thread Barry Drake


On 09/05/13 21:51, alan c wrote:
A few years ago, I requested, and was granted, a chat with the Manager 
of PCWorld (Reading). I  asked if I could do a small demo of (Ubuntu) 
near the door one weekend, and hand out leaflets. I showed one of my 
(computer fair) leaflets. It was a relaxed conversation. He simply 
asked 'Can I sell it?' I said,
'Well, it is free.' He responded, before hurriedly rushing off, 'Not 
interested.'




Alan, I was in business for many years.  I was in it firstly to give 
service to my customers and secondly to earn a crust or two!  I was not 
in it for altruistic reasons, although I have done a bit of 'pro bono' 
from time to time.  A manager is only going to pick up on our offers if 
he might benefit him/herself, his/her trade and his/her customers.


He/she doesn't keep Linux enabled computers because they are poor 
sellers in comparison to other operating system kit.  He/she DOES 
already stock Linux enabled peripherals.  Knowledge of this fact WILL 
gain (a few) sales with no cost to the store other than a bit of 
training.  ergo any right-minded manager will think seriously about 
looking into this.  AND this will raise awareness that Linux is a 
'force' to be reckoned with.  May 'the force' be with us



Regards,Barry.

--
Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Dixons/PC World response .....

2013-05-09 Thread alan c


On 09/05/13 19:16, SuperEngineer wrote:

On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 09:39 +, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote:

I find it very interesting that nearly four years ago, when I bought
my Toshiba Netbook with Ubuntu Remix from Dixons, they were selling
like hot cakes, far better than the equivalent Windows machines.
Then suddenly, overnight, they disappeared. Now what retailer would
remove a best-selling line instantly like that, unless there was some
sort of external pressure to do so? ;-(


Agreed - I bought my first netbook from PC World [during a sale] with an
XFCE Linux distro - not Ubuntu but I soon converted it - the point is I
bought it with a Linux distro.  It had a hardware fail a short time
after  once back from a replacement mainboard the shop actually
reloaded the OS on the spot.. with their instantly to hand distro CD.
Shop was actually impressed that they could do this so quickly and
easily!
I occasionally go back to same store - not a Linux machine in sight.
Those in the know at the store share my disappointment - but the average
comment is ..but we have to sell what the customers expect.

Therein lies the weakness - we must educate to expect better.



A blast from the past but still makes me smile:
'Thieves dont even want  Vista'
Video - (see from 2mins 8sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-1uQ4veOTg

;-)

PS
The video is only slightly inaccurate, only a single laptop was 
stolen, that was all they had in the shop!

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] The problem with Bug #1

2013-05-09 Thread Sean Miller

If you extended this to the open market as a whole, then every washing
machine should have alternative operating systems.

No, it's not something I subscribe to.

If a manufacturer wishes to go with Windows, then that's fine.

If Ubuntu wants to become the OS of choice then let's PERSUADE rather
than force people to provide an option (which nobody will probably take
anyway)

Sean
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] The problem with Bug #1


On 09/05/13 22:18, Sean Miller wrote:

let's PERSUADE rather than force

Sean - an excerpt from another post related to this sent my moi...

 I occasionally go back to same store - not a Linux machine in sight.
 Those in the know at the store share my disappointment - but the average
 comment is ..but we have to sell what the customers expect.

 Therein lies the weakness - we must educate to expect better.


The word educate was deliberate.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] UEFI bios update

2013-05-09 Thread James Morrissey

Hi all, just following up on this post:

I followed this issue up with a bug report (
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?shva=1#search/bios+update/13e557738ad3f9bc),
but have hit a snag - also now detailed in the bug report.

Following the instructions from the bug report I installed the upstream
kernel to see whether that would fix the system freezes i was having.
However my ability to test that kernel is limited by the fact that i can't
get the wireless to work on the upstream kernel. I am not sure what the
problem is here as wireless works on the current kernel and all the drivers
remain installed when i boot to the upstream kernel.

During the time i spent on the upstream kernel - tethered to the internet -
i didn't have any freezes (working for about 12 hours) this is most
encouraging, but i could use more time on it to really see whether its
working. Also, the freezes on the current kernel are killing me, so if i
could find a fix, or find a way to use the upstream kernel with wireless,
that would be great.

With the help through the bug report taking a little while to happen i was
wondering if someone here might be able to help me trouble-shoot the
wireless issue on the upstream kernel. Why wouldn't it work if it works on
the current kernel and all the drivers remain installed? I don't know where
to begin.

Wireless card is: Broadcom Corporation BCM43228 802.11a/b/g/ and is
currently running using the Broadcom 802.11 Linux STA wireless driver.
Machine is running 64 bit 13.04.

I realise that this question is deviating from my original one - about UEFI
on a BIOS update - but i see this as all being part of the solution. When i
manage to get round to calling Lenovo i will follow this email up with info
about the EUFI and BIOS update.

Thanks,

On 29 April 2013 16:24, alan c aecl...@candt.waitrose.com wrote:

On 29/04/13 12:45, James Morrissey wrote:

Hi Dave,

Thanks for getting back to me.

This may work flawlessly. However (and it's a big however) it may not.
To combat this I would suggest that before you did anything you back
up your systems and ensure you have install mediums for both windows 7
and Ubuntu. This would at least mean that the systems can be
reinstalled and your data retrieved if the worst should happen. combat
this
I would suggest that before you did anything you back
up your systems and ensure you have install mediums for both windows 7
and Ubuntu. This would at least mean that the systems can be
reinstalled and your data retrieved if the worst should happen.
- This is frustrating as all my install media are packed in a box which is
being shipped from overseas.

I would also suggest though that if you had no issues on Quantal but
are in Raring that it may be a kernel issue. Just because it is
stable for everyone else doesn't mean it is for that particular
machine, So I would file a bug first and see if there is any news
from that before you go all kung-fu on the bios/uefi system.
ubuntu-bug linux in a terminal will file most of the information on
a kernel bug for you.
- I thought as much, but the first instruction under filling bugs is that
you update your BIOS
(https://help.ubuntu.com/**community/ReportingBugshttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
)

Anyway, i have now filed a bug (
https://bugs.launchpad.net/**ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/**1174275https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1174275
).

If anyone has any other advice i'd welcome it.

The question comes to mind that although in principle the uefi 'bios'
should have a facility to disable uefi, at this stage of the game with a
number of things unproven and unpractised, the worst that could happen is
that uefi is installed, enabled, and the disable uefi is not working
properly. If this should happen, would it be possible to refalsh the bios
back to its existing state I wonder?

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] The problem with Bug #1


On 09/05/13 22:18, Sean Miller wrote:
If you extended this to the open market as a whole, then every washing 
machine should have alternative operating systems.


No, it's not something I subscribe to.

If a manufacturer wishes to go with Windows, then that's fine.

If Ubuntu wants to become the OS of choice then let's PERSUADE 
rather than force people to provide an option (which nobody will 
probably take anyway)


Sean



 who the heck has the right to demand it must be Ubuntu? Nobody.
Back to my point,... Education is the way.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] The problem with Bug #1

2013-05-09 Thread alan c


On 09/05/13 22:18, Sean Miller wrote:

If Ubuntu wants to become the OS of choice then let's PERSUADE rather
than force people to provide an option


Pre installation is a significant factor, as is investment, and risk, 
and several other aspects too, in the story. A head-on confrontation 
with a big monopolist who is very well funded is not good sense at 
all. Staying well under the radar, in all sorts of ways -does- make 
sense, although it takes a lot of persistence, resolve, and some courage.


I would suggest that -public- lists where strategy is formulated to 
take over the world, or whatever, might be seen as just a little, 
well, naive, when the competition is such as we find. It is more than 
easy to steer (a very polite way to express this) any meaningful 
discussion, without being too obvious. If I had a large pension 
depending on maintaining a good old monopoly, then I would be pretty 
much using all possible means to disrupt and deflect the possible 
competition, on all fronts.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] The problem with Bug #1

On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 22:38 +0100, alan c wrote:
 I would suggest that -public- lists where strategy is formulated to 
 take over the world, or whatever, might be seen as just a little, 
 well, naive, when the competition is such as we find. It is more than 
 easy to steer (a very polite way to express this) any meaningful 
 discussion, without being too obvious. If I had a large pension 
 depending on maintaining a good old monopoly, then I would be pretty 
 much using all possible means to disrupt and deflect the possible 
 competition, on all fronts.
 - 
just one final word (sentence)- my word educate was deliberate... get
the kids using Linux, let them think it's 'normal'.

Not a strategy - just a bit of common sense ;)

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

:: SIGH ::

start at https://help.ubuntu.com/13.04/serverguide/ftp-server.html and then
continue on?

I'm not going to persue this 'argument'. Go work it out for your selves. I
only pop in here rarely, the conversations from the last couple of threads
enforce that.

you are totally wrong in lambasting some one who has limited equipment to
back up his own system for reasons you have:
1) No idea of
2) Have not asked.

The ubuntu-uk LoCo needs to less concentrate on being approved each time as
a LoCo and instead look into the issues people have and then actually work
out why the Simple answers are not available to them.

I'll give you a hint... I bought and shipped a replacement keyboard for a
laptop to one of lubuntu testers.

Get of your high horse with infinate resources and actually help those with
finite resourses, I'm saddened to see the attitude from this LoCo to such a
person.

@ Alan: Get this stupidity stopped


Phill.


On 9 May 2013 20:31, Avi Greenbury li...@avi.co wrote:

 Phill Whiteside wrote:
  sftp (which most can support) or better vsftp (which some servers
 support) are

 vsftp is an FTP daemon, it's got nothing much to do with sftp.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] The problem with Bug #1

2013-05-09 Thread John Oliver

I suppose it depends what's available on the platform. Looking at schools and 
colleges on the UK the vast majority run Windows XP or 7. That's not 
necessarily because of the technical staff who are often perfectly capable of 
using and managing a GNU/Linux system or set of systems, not is it saying that 
Windows, Mac or Linux (etc) has one better than the other. I've been using 
Ubuntu and other distros for about 3  1/2 years now, but I also realise that 
Windows 7 as a platform in schools and in the enterprise is pretty good at what 
it does, and I have grown to like Windows 7 a lot since its release in 2009. 
But, seen as schools and colleges have been using Windows since the 90s, it is 
simply easier to keep with it. Let us not forget one of the main reasons 
education likes to stick with Windows - MS Office, which is I find much more 
reliable and user friendly than alternatives such as LibreOffice or KOffice. If 
you're in education trying to teach children to word process it simply isn't 
faesable to try to explain the difference between proprietary and open-source 
software etc and then to get them to make a choice. Such a thing would be a 
massive logistical operation too - demonstrations on a projector screen would 
be wrong for everyone who chose the other system, and would have to be done 
again.

So, basically, the point I am trying to make is that until Ubuntu (or any 
alternative) can offer something that will really persuade school/college 
technical staff to switch, then they won't. Why bother messing on making the 
switch to something if it's just as good and will take a lot of valuable time 
away from busy technical staff? It's simply nonsensical as far as I can see, 
speaking from my own experience.

Please feel free to criticise me :)


Regards,
John Oliver

On 9 May 2013, at 21:47, SuperEngineer boo...@gmail.com wrote:

 The problem with not resolving bug #1 stares me in the face. That being
 the fact that EEC, UsA? etc are prepared to force Microsoft to offer
 more than their own browser... but are not prepared to take on the real
 monopoly.  That being the fact that manufactures should offer a dual
 boot at purchase... the only problem being the wording:
 
 Dear purchaser, please choose:
 - paying extra on your purchase for Windows
 - using a free, legal  simple system that is better
 
 
 Hmmm
 
 Well  - that's my sensible thinking done for this year  ;)
 bfn
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] The problem with Bug #1

XP is going to be dead, no security updates. Lubuntu has realised this, we
are asking xubutu and kubuntu to come on board. The initial one was just
lubuntu, it is now open to all the flavours to get on board with this, For
schools / colleges? Use Edubutnu, or is there no one in UK who knows of it?

Edubuntu can only be improved if people actually help out on both the
direction it heads but also people who are in education who can suggest
things that need / want to be added.

Regards,

Phill.
P.S. the UK government has said that teaching IT means more than learning
how to use micro-soft applicatians I am not holding my breath :)
1.
http://www.techdivine.com/tdblog/2013/03/china-adopts-ubuntu-as-the-official-os-of-china/

On 10 May 2013 00:09, John Oliver jp.oli...@ntlworld.com wrote:

 I suppose it depends what's available on the platform. Looking at schools
 and colleges on the UK the vast majority run Windows XP or 7. That's not
 necessarily because of the technical staff who are often perfectly capable
 of using and managing a GNU/Linux system or set of systems, not is it
 saying that Windows, Mac or Linux (etc) has one better than the other. I've
 been using Ubuntu and other distros for about 3  1/2 years now, but I also
 realise that Windows 7 as a platform in schools and in the enterprise is
 pretty good at what it does, and I have grown to like Windows 7 a lot since
 its release in 2009. But, seen as schools and colleges have been using
 Windows since the 90s, it is simply easier to keep with it. Let us not
 forget one of the main reasons education likes to stick with Windows - MS
 Office, which is I find much more reliable and user friendly than
 alternatives such as LibreOffice or KOffice. If you're in education trying
 to teach children to word process it sim
  ply isn't faesable to try to explain the difference between proprietary
 and open-source software etc and then to get them to make a choice. Such a
 thing would be a massive logistical operation too - demonstrations on a
 projector screen would be wrong for everyone who chose the other system,
 and would have to be done again.

 So, basically, the point I am trying to make is that until Ubuntu (or any
 alternative) can offer something that will really persuade school/college
 technical staff to switch, then they won't. Why bother messing on making
 the switch to something if it's just as good and will take a lot of
 valuable time away from busy technical staff? It's simply nonsensical as
 far as I can see, speaking from my own experience.

 Please feel free to criticise me :)


 Regards,
 John Oliver

 On 9 May 2013, at 21:47, SuperEngineer boo...@gmail.com wrote:

  The problem with not resolving bug #1 stares me in the face. That being
  the fact that EEC, UsA? etc are prepared to force Microsoft to offer
  more than their own browser... but are not prepared to take on the real
  monopoly.  That being the fact that manufactures should offer a dual
  boot at purchase... the only problem being the wording:
 
  Dear purchaser, please choose:
  - paying extra on your purchase for Windows
  - using a free, legal  simple system that is better
 
 
  Hmmm
 
  Well  - that's my sensible thinking done for this year  ;)
  bfn
  --
  Cheers,
  Bill B. [SuperEngineer]
 
  --
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  -Registered Ubuntu User 32366-
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Phill Whiteside phi...@ubuntu.com wrote:
 [snip]

 I'm not going to persue this 'argument'. Go work it out for your selves. I
 only pop in here rarely, the conversations from the last couple of threads
 enforce that.

 you are totally wrong in lambasting some one who has limited equipment to
 back up his own system for reasons you have:
 1) No idea of
 2) Have not asked.

This conversation was initially framed as Packard Bell support suck,
and here's the proof so you can laugh at it.  Some unwarranted
insults aside, I think there has been some important best practice
advice offered here.  If you plan to run a business utilising any form
of computing device, and plan to store business critical data on
that/those device(s), you should additionally plan for and budget for
a backup solution.  You wouldn't stick company formation documents,
tax returns or customer invoices at the bottom of your rubbish bin in
the vain hope that your bin isn't collected and emptied, you'd put it
in a lock safe, storage box or filing cabinet, and you'd probably keep
copies, likely offsite, as well. Just In Case.  You should consider
data which your business relies upon with the same respect and duty of
care.

 The ubuntu-uk LoCo needs to less concentrate on being approved each time as
 a LoCo and instead look into the issues people have and then actually work
 out why the Simple answers are not available to them.

Again, this issue is that someone received a budget class computer
from a low-tier manufacturer, and has expected a premium level of
customer support.  To expect that may not be unreasonable, but to be
confronted with budget-level support from a budget manufacturer is not
surprising, or uncommon.

 I'll give you a hint... I bought and shipped a replacement keyboard for a
 laptop to one of lubuntu testers.

Well done, community spirit at it's finest.

 Get of your high horse with infinate resources and actually help those with
 finite resourses, I'm saddened to see the attitude from this LoCo to such a
 person.

I did mention (over six and a half hours ago) that Gareth could ask
around to see if anyone locally or here on the list had anything to
spare to assist him.  Whether or not something has happened to that
effect off-list is unknown.  In addition, some very useful advice has
been given to assist Gareth in building up a backup solution or
procuring a very cheap solution to adding more storage.  I don't
believe it's unfair to offer a small measure of constructive criticism
in the same thread as some rather cheap shots were being taken towards
Packard Bell.

 @ Alan: Get this stupidity stopped

Down with that sort of thing. Careful now!

-n

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Packard Bell, what wonderful support!