[Fwd: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?]
forwarding this for cindy miller, who is having trouble posting to list... [it's in response to melani and I discussing what to do about potholes and whatnot] Original Message From: Cindy Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Philadelphia Managing Director's Office has a relatively new program called the Eyes and Ears Program. It's a program that enhances City Code enforcement efforts in the neighborhoods. If you don't think the city or its agencies are responding to community concerns in the following areas: quality of life issues, litter, graffitti. potholes, abandoned vehicles, trash dumping and vacant properties -- you can call 215-686-3491 or e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with your complaint. -- End Original Message --- __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
I must have missed something before in this discussion.? So Penn owns the UCD office space and it also owns the separate PPD space.?? And Penn may or may not be charging rent to UCD and PPD?? And UCD may or may not be paying the rent for the PPD space to Penn?? No, wait, you're saying UCD does not pay the rent for PPD's space right, and also that, if the ministation is in space Penn gave to UCD to use without charge, UCD still isn't providing PPD space? ? But the most confusing thing is, if they have two separate spaces, why is the Lt. using the UCD business card with the UCD number anyway?? Is his office inside UCD's, and the other police personnel are next door at the ministation? ? And please, I understand all of this is a different issue from what business card he uses.? On the other hand, makes me wonder if other police detailed to this location - the ministation - also have UCD cards instead of City cards? Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Sent: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 4:46 pm Subject: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? In a message dated 9/30/2007 4:12:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MLamond writes: So, what DO you say, Al?? Can yo expand on your earlier statement so there's no need to misinterpret it?? What did you mean when you wrote: You're not that dense, Melani. ? I meant what I said... It's not complicated. I provided the people on the useful list with the information that Penn owns the property and provides space to UCD and the Police Dept. No more, no less. ? If you're so fired up to find out whether either or both pay for the space or get it free or under some other arrangement, do your own research. All you have to do is call Wendell Lewis and ask him, if you're so darn interested in finding out (as opposed to nitpicking or stamping your adorable little foot while the steam comes out of those cute pixie-like ears). ? Personally, I don't care one way or the other. It's not the least bit important. What's important is the fact that UCD does not provide the Police Dept with the space -- which?was the false assumption someone made that I was correcting. ? ? Always at your service and ready for a dialog. Al Krigman See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/30/07 10:31:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for refocusing the discussion on the real issue, Karen. Kimm If the real issue is Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?, then Lt. McCurdy answered that question before this ever came up on the list, when Bill Brown and I asked at the meeting last week about what territory he covered: He replied that he reports to the 18th District at 55th Pine. If the real issue is, what can we fault the UCD for this week, then it's that the Lt. has cards he gave out so people know his phone number if they'd like his help, and some people on the list think they should be redesigned. Or perhaps people on the list think the police shouldn't be located at 39th Chestnut, or the police shouldn't communicate with the UCD. I'm not sure how it would most succinctly be framed; surely someone will correct me. But it seems to be about technicalities - I haven't heard anyone say they are outraged that a police lieutenant offered to make himself available to hear our needs. I was involved with Cedar Park Neighbors' board at the point that its ministation at the Firehouse, 50th Baltimore, had failed. We (CPN's dues-paying members) were paying its bills, such as phone and utilities, but no one was ever officially there (though the phone was being used)! So we had the phone turned off and the ministation ceased to exist. A ministation such as the one at the Firehouse was supposed to have had community people staffing it, and they were to have contact with the police and have police checking in with them - it was not to be staffed full-time by police officers. As we all know, there are a limited number of neighbors who volunteer, and they were choosing other volunteer activities - not sitting in a small room attached to the Firehouse. So when there were no community people there, CPN's Firehouse ministation was no longer viable. It is my understanding that the substation at 47th Chester, also relying on community volunteers, has had trouble sustaining itself because of a lack of participants. I'm not sure if it is still open, despite incredible dedication by its main volunteer, Cindy Preston. This is a very different model from having a real police substation - or whatever technical term it's called - staffed with police officers, like the one next door to the UCD. That station is open all the time, not dependent on volunteers. Isn't this good for our community? It can be difficult to get the attention of officers at the 18th District's 55th Pine location for the less-violent, less serious crimes of the types that we have in University City. Their focus is, understandably, on the very serious things that happen, often further west, closer to 55th Pine. They are less likely to have time to worry about burglaries of leaded glass windows on Hazel Avenue or smashed car windows on 46th St., even though these lesser crimes, and the muggings and robberies of pedestrians, affect us seriously. Lt. McCurdy's office is another resource for us, and its physical location puts it in the middle of the action at the end of the district where these crimes, though perhaps not life-threatening, are quality of life issues for us. He can bring help to us for our difficulties; he has offered to help. He has given us a phone number and email address where we can reach him. He spoke up himself at the landlord meeting - no one stood him up as a puppet and spoke for him or claimed him as theirs. If people who were not at the meeting want to see his location, his business card or the connection between the police and the UCD as poor judgment, deceitful, demeaning, a symbolic problem or a power grab, so be it. But for those of us who were present for Lt. McCurdy's remarks, we heard a professional police officer speak about crime and safety and the resources he had to offer us. Melani Lamond ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
The symbolic often carries more weight than the actual. I am grateful for the opportunity to take Philosophy courses and read Heinlein. I don't always remember to practice what I've learned, but am happy to know that even if the front of the house I see might be Yellowish ferrous brick the side might be Salmon colored bricks, and the back Cedar siding. Thanks to folks like Al and Karen who help me read between the lines and anticipate the dangers beneath the surface of our local icebergs. And thanks to Wilma, whose memories reveal the real. Thanks also to someone who sent me a forward that made me LOL, and speaks to problems with perception. If you don't read me, or don't read forwards, you might miss something that might brighten and enlighten your day. :-) Begin forwarded message: I had a bunch of Canadian dollars I needed to exchange, so I went to the currency exchange window at the local bank. Short line. Just one guy in front of me . . . an Asian guy who was trying to exchange yen for dollars and he was a little irritated . .. He asked the teller, Why it change?? Yestoday, I get two hunat dolla fo yen. Today I get hunat eighty?? Why it change? The teller shrugged his shoulders and said, Fluctuations. The Asian guy says, Fluc you white people, too! Best! Liz On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:46:07 -0400 KAREN ALLEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Whether Penn, UCD or some combination charges the City no rent, market rent, subsidized rent, or whatever, that doesn't give UCD the right to assert authority, whether actual or symbolic, over the personnel and functions of the Philadelphia Police Department. One is a non-profit organization, the other is a branch of municipal government. To take this chain of logic to its conclusion is to state or suggest state that the independence of a branch of municipal government can be redirected to a private entity merely by providing free or subsidized rent.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Kimm Tynan wrote: Bravo, Wilma. Beautifully said. And Karen! Kimm agreed. I've been reading all this, and I just want to ask: why doesn't ucd just go away? seriously. whether you like or dislike ucd, I'm asking: can't we just say to penn and ucd, THANKS, WE'LL TAKE IT FROM HERE. we live in a great neighborhood. it was true then and it's true now. isn't it time for ucd to just go away? how much longer do they need to be around? how much longer do we all have to be distracted from our making our own neighborhood great ourselves? .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [aka laserbeam®] [aka ray] SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES. It is very clear on this listserve who these people are. Ray has admitted being connected to this forger. -- Tony West Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated, more believable -- Tony West __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/30/07 10:31:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for refocusing the discussion on the real issue, Karen. Kimm If the real issue is *Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to*?, then Lt. McCurdy answered that question before this ever came up on the list, when Bill Brown and I asked at the meeting last week about what territory he covered: *He replied that he reports to the 18th District at 55th Pine.* If the real issue is, what can we fault the UCD for this week, then it's that the Lt. has cards he gave out so people know his phone number if they'd like his help, and some people on the list think they should be redesigned. Or perhaps people on the list think the police shouldn't be located at 39th Chestnut, or the police shouldn't communicate with the UCD. I'm not sure how it would most succinctly be framed; surely someone will correct me. But it seems to be about technicalities - I haven't heard anyone say they are outraged that a police lieutenant offered to make himself available to hear our needs. I was involved with Cedar Park Neighbors' board at the point that its ministation at the Firehouse, 50th Baltimore, had failed. We (CPN's dues-paying members) were paying its bills, such as phone and utilities, but no one was ever officially there (though the phone was being used)! So we had the phone turned off and the ministation ceased to exist. A ministation such as the one at the Firehouse was supposed to have had community people staffing it, and they were to have contact with the police and have police checking in with them - it was not to be staffed full-time by police officers. As we all know, there are a limited number of neighbors who volunteer, and they were choosing other volunteer activities - not sitting in a small room attached to the Firehouse. So when there were no community people there, CPN's Firehouse ministation was no longer viable. It is my understanding that the substation at 47th Chester, also relying on community volunteers, has had trouble sustaining itself because of a lack of participants. I'm not sure if it is still open, despite incredible dedication by its main volunteer, Cindy Preston. This is a very different model from having a real police substation - or whatever technical term it's called - _staffed with police officers_, like the one next door to the UCD. That station is open all the time, not dependent on volunteers. Isn't this good for our community? It can be difficult to get the attention of officers at the 18th District's 55th Pine location for the less-violent, less serious crimes of the types that we have in University City. Their focus is, understandably, on the very serious things that happen, often further west, closer to 55th Pine. They are less likely to have time to worry about burglaries of leaded glass windows on Hazel Avenue or smashed car windows on 46th St., even though these lesser crimes, and the muggings and robberies of pedestrians, affect us seriously. Lt. McCurdy's office is another resource for us, and its physical location puts it in the middle of the action at the end of the district where these crimes, though perhaps not life-threatening, are quality of life issues for us. He can bring help to us for our difficulties; he has offered to help. He has given us a phone number and email address where we can reach him. He spoke up himself at the landlord meeting - no one stood him up as a puppet and spoke for him or claimed him as theirs. If people who were not at the meeting want to see his location, his business card or the connection between the police and the UCD as poor judgment, deceitful, demeaning, a symbolic problem or a power grab, so be it. But for those of us who were present for Lt. McCurdy's remarks, we heard a professional police officer speak about crime and safety and the resources he had to offer us. what you describe here is what kimm pointed out earlier: how ucd supplants grassroots efforts. how are grassroots efforts ever going to grow or thrive if ucd is constantly held up as the only alternative? how is our relationship with our elected officials (and police) improved and strengthened if ucd is constantly placing itself between us and them? ucd has been around for 10 years now. shouldn't ucd have been facilitating the growth and viability of our grassroots efforts? helping our community organizations be more like what good community organizations are (inclusive, representative, accountable, transparent)? shouldn't ucd have been encouraging a greater, more direct relationship between the community with its elected councilwomen and its police? instead, in its 10 years here, ucd has been supplanting grassroots efforts, co-opting community organizations, inserting itself between ourselves and our citizenship. in its 10 years here, ucd has been only
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 10/1/2007 12:11:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: why doesn't ucd just go away? Because Wendell Lewis, the Flackette, Carolyn Blackwell-Hewitt, and others have bigger salaries than they ever dreamed were possible and are fighting desperately to hold onto them.. Al Krigman Left of Ivan Grozny ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 10/1/07 12:15:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: isn't it time for ucd to just bow out? we'll take it from here. In theory, everything you write sounds reasonable, excellent. But we've been there, done that, with voluntary community organizations (which some on this list criticize as bogus anyway). It didn't work. The community organizations were unable to sustain ANY of their police ministations over the long term; the one at 44th just north of Walnut ceased to be viable also, like the others I mentioned earlier. Perhaps the problem was, as Kimm observed, the attitude of the former police commissioner, but at any rate, the UCD didn't close them! If the community could still keep them going, they would be here for us also! In addition, townwatch was, and still is, unable to regularly and comprehensively patrol the area. The folks around 46th Hazel who are patrolling their block now are already feeling sleep-deprived. Landlords were, and still are, unable to keep their tenants from occasionally leaving trash all over the public sidewalks for their neighbors to wade through or clean up. Clark Cedar Park supporters were unable to get sufficient volunteer and City help to have clean, safe parks. It was, and still is, difficult if not impossible for each individual neighbor to navigate the bureaucracy, find the correct contact, and get the responsible City or State agency to respond to problems such as missing sewer covers, dangerous potholes, broken streetlights, dangerous abandoned buildings, etc. I have been there on the boards and among the volunteers, along with so many generous, hardworking, overextended UC neighbors who gave so many volunteer hours, but couldn't do it all. The UCD exists because there was a need for it. It is a clearing house for many things that we were unable to do on our own. Ray, if can put together a voluntary replacement organization for the UCD, available to all in the neighborhood and able to handle all of the things I just mentioned, I'll agree with you that the UCD has outlived its time. I look forward to your success. Melani Lamond Melani Lamond, Associate Broker Urban Bye, Realtor 3529 Lancaster Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19104 cell phone 215-356-7266 office phone 215-222-4800, ext. 113 office fax 215-222-1101 ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Melanie, I don't believe that anyone is outraged that Lt. McCurdy is available to help us; however, I think you are missing the main point, which is about much more than technicalities. Imagine that UCD is offering to help the community with real estate issues. UCD then persuades you or another licensed real estate agent affiliated with a local brokerage to spend time in UCD's office answering real estate questions. Your broker gives you permission to do this as its agent, but UCD gives you UCD cards with your name and real estate license information, a UCD email and a UCD phone number. My reading of this situation would be that, despite good intentions, you, UCD and your broker would be in violation of state real estate ethics laws and regulations because UCD is not a licensed branch office of the brokerage. These laws and regulations exist in order avoid conflicts of interest and confusion for real estate consumers and to make sure that a broker is able to supervised and vouch for the activities of its licensed agents. Many of us view Lt. McCurdy's card as more problematic than my real estate analogy because he is a public safety officer with a direct chain of command to the police commissioner and the mayor. There must never be any hint of a question of an on-duty police officer having a dual affiliation with a non-public entity. Obviously more so than real estate professionals, police officers must make clear that they are here to serve the people and are accountable to the people's government. Andy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:12:22 -0400Subject: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] a message dated 9/30/07 10:31:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for refocusing the discussion on the real issue, Karen.KimmIf the real issue is Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?, then Lt. McCurdy answered that question before this ever came up on the list, when Bill Brown and I asked at the meeting last week about what territory he covered: He replied that he reports to the 18th District at 55th Pine.If the real issue is, what can we fault the UCD for this week, then it's that the Lt. has cards he gave out so people know his phone number if they'd like his help, and some people on the list think they should be redesigned. Or perhaps people on the list think the police shouldn't be located at 39th Chestnut, or the police shouldn't communicate with the UCD. I'm not sure how it would most succinctly be framed; surely someone will correct me. But it seems to be about technicalities - I haven't heard anyone say they are outraged that a police lieutenant offered to make himself available to hear our needs.I was involved with Cedar Park Neighbors' board at the point that its ministation at the Firehouse, 50th Baltimore, had failed. We (CPN's dues-paying members) were paying its bills, such as phone and utilities, but no one was ever officially there (though the phone was being used)! So we had the phone turned off and the ministation ceased to exist. A ministation such as the one at the Firehouse was supposed to have had community people staffing it, and they were to have contact with the police and have police checking in with them - it was not to be staffed full-time by police officers. As we all know, there are a limited number of neighbors who volunteer, and they were choosing other volunteer activities - not sitting in a small room attached to the Firehouse. So when there were no community people there, CPN's Firehouse ministation was no longer viable. It is my understanding that the substation at 47th Chester, also relying on community volunteers, has had trouble sustaining itself because of a lack of participants. I'm not sure if it is still open, despite incredible dedication by its main volunteer, Cindy Preston.This is a very different model from having a real police substation - or whatever technical term it's called - staffed with police officers, like the one next door to the UCD. That station is open all the time, not dependent on volunteers. Isn't this good for our community?It can be difficult to get the attention of officers at the 18th District's 55th Pine location for the less-violent, less serious crimes of the types that we have in University City. Their focus is, understandably, on the very serious things that happen, often further west, closer to 55th Pine. They are less likely to have time to worry about burglaries of leaded glass windows on Hazel Avenue or smashed car windows on 46th St., even though these lesser crimes, and the muggings and robberies of pedestrians, affect us seriously. Lt. McCurdy's office is another resource for us, and its physical location puts it in the middle of the action at the end of the district where these crimes, though perhaps not life-threatening, are quality of life issues
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: /isn't it time for ucd to just bow out? we'll take it from here./ In theory, everything you write sounds reasonable, excellent. But we've been there, done that, with voluntary community organizations (which some on this list criticize as bogus anyway). It didn't work. The community organizations were unable to sustain ANY of their police ministations over the long term; the one at 44th just north of Walnut ceased to be viable also, like the others I mentioned earlier. Perhaps the problem was, as Kimm observed, the attitude of the former police commissioner, but at any rate, the UCD didn't close them! If the community could still keep them going, they would be here for us also! In addition, townwatch was, and still is, unable to regularly and comprehensively patrol the area. The folks around 46th Hazel who are patrolling their block now are already feeling sleep-deprived. Landlords were, and still are, unable to keep their tenants from occasionally leaving trash all over the public sidewalks for their neighbors to wade through or clean up. Clark Cedar Park supporters were unable to get sufficient volunteer and City help to have clean, safe parks. It was, and still is, difficult if not impossible for each individual neighbor to navigate the bureaucracy, find the correct contact, and get the responsible City or State agency to respond to problems such as missing sewer covers, dangerous potholes, broken streetlights, dangerous abandoned buildings, etc. I have been there on the boards and among the volunteers, along with so many generous, hardworking, overextended UC neighbors who gave so many volunteer hours, but couldn't do it all. The UCD exists because there was a need for it. It is a clearing house for many things that we were unable to do on our own. Ray, if can put together a voluntary replacement organization for the UCD, available to all in the neighborhood and able to handle all of the things I just mentioned, I'll agree with you that the UCD has outlived its time. I look forward to your success. potholes? missing sewer covers? broken streetlights? abandoned buildings? missing cats? leaky roofs? missing tools? volunteers for the park? for the festival? block cleanups? recycling? leaf pickups? safety workshops? carpooling? zoning petitions? blessing the animals? do you honestly think we can't handle it, melani? if even the traffic on this list is any indication, I think we can, and do. without a lot of fuss, without a dire sense of panic and fear, without spin or branding or secret handshakes. and just think how much more we could accomplish if we weren't so divided, if we spent more of our time being cooperative rather than contentious. melani, I know that you, like myself, are one of the neighborhood's biggest, most ardent and loyal of champions. neither you nor I (nor penn nor ucd) can ever stop talking about how wonderful the neighborhood is, how smart and dedicated and resourceful the people here are. that old song, about how the neighborhood is overcome with problems, on the brink of destruction, may have played back in 1997, but it's 2007 now. our neighborhood, while not perfect, is now alive and well, going strong. and I'm saying: let's all keep it that way, let's all keep going. let's tell penn and ucd we'll take it from here. (and please, before we can go a step further, you'll have to seriously change your mindset, the one implicit in your very last sentence. this is not about looking forward to 'my' success, but to 'our' success!) .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [aka laserbeam®] [aka ray] SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES. It is very clear on this listserve who these people are. Ray has admitted being connected to this forger. -- Tony West Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated, more believable -- Tony West __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote: potholes? missing sewer covers? broken streetlights? abandoned buildings? missing cats? leaky roofs? missing tools? volunteers for the park? for the festival? block cleanups? recycling? leaf pickups? safety workshops? carpooling? zoning petitions? blessing the animals? do you honestly think we can't handle it, melani? What do you mean we? I don't recall you showing up to volunteer in the Park or helping out with the festivals. Or doing much of anything beyond whingeing about UCD's pernicious influence. Hearing Ray talk about how we can get the job done is like hearing Donald Rumsfeld talk about how effective the U.S. Military is. Sure, we get a lot done... but it's not as if we can thank Ray for any of it. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
So, what you're saying is that anyone who doesn't volunteer at Clark Park isn't involved with community activism and has no right to say we in community context. Is that correct? Frankus Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible. On Oct 1, 2007, at 04:25 PM, Brian Siano wrote: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote: potholes? missing sewer covers? broken streetlights? abandoned buildings? missing cats? leaky roofs? missing tools? volunteers for the park? for the festival? block cleanups? recycling? leaf pickups? safety workshops? carpooling? zoning petitions? blessing the animals? do you honestly think we can't handle it, melani? What do you mean we? I don't recall you showing up to volunteer in the Park or helping out with the festivals. Or doing much of anything beyond whingeing about UCD's pernicious influence. Hearing Ray talk about how we can get the job done is like hearing Donald Rumsfeld talk about how effective the U.S. Military is. Sure, we get a lot done... but it's not as if we can thank Ray for any of it. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 10/1/2007 4:32:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What do you mean we? I don't recall you showing up to volunteer in the Park or helping out with the festivals. Or doing much of anything beyond whingeing about UCD's pernicious influence. Hearing Ray talk about how we can get the job done is like hearing Donald Rumsfeld talk about how effective the U.S. Military is. Sure, we get a lot done... but it's not as if we can thank Ray for any of it. Brian: I think you, too, have missed Ray's point. It's about individual responsibility, not group participation. I didn't move to this neighborhood, nor do I continue to grace it with my presence, because I wanted to belong to a group. The underlying essence of urban life is the inherent benefit of lots of people increasing the likelihood that the things they find important will have enough support to survive. There may be some folks who like to volunteer in the park, for instance, because of the enjoyment they get from the camaraderie, the satisfaction of knowing they helped plant this or that, the recognition they get from having headed up a successful effort, etc. That doesn't make them any better -- or give them any more rights vis-a-vis the appropriate utilization of the facility than the person who brings his dog to the bowl or shoots a few hoops but doesn't volunteer or pay dues to FOCP. Al ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Frankly speaking, Al, I think Brian understood Ray's point perfectly well. You're just lucky he didn't mention you together with Ray. Elliot On 01 Oct 2007, at 5:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/1/2007 4:32:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What do you mean we? I don't recall you showing up to volunteer in the Park or helping out with the festivals. Or doing much of anything beyond whingeing about UCD's pernicious influence. Hearing Ray talk about how we can get the job done is like hearing Donald Rumsfeld talk about how effective the U.S. Military is. Sure, we get a lot done... but it's not as if we can thank Ray for any of it. Brian: I think you, too, have missed Ray's point. It's about individual responsibility, not group participation. I didn't move to this neighborhood, nor do I continue to grace it with my presence, because I wanted to belong to a group. The underlying essence of urban life is the inherent benefit of lots of people increasing the likelihood that the things they find important will have enough support to survive. There may be some folks who like to volunteer in the park, for instance, because of the enjoyment they get from the camaraderie, the satisfaction of knowing they helped plant this or that, the recognition they get from having headed up a successful effort, etc. That doesn't make them any better -- or give them any more rights vis-a-vis the appropriate utilization of the facility than the person who brings his dog to the bowl or shoots a few hoops but doesn't volunteer or pay dues to FOCP. Al See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Dear Melani, I am sorry you feel the only reason this listserv exists is to find fault with the UCD. However, my view is the disparaging of the community efforts who tried their ³damndest² to maintain a neighborhood which they saw abandoned and whole heartedly with people who said they would help them revitalize the area. For the record when I was CPN Secretary, I spent a LOT of time at the Mini-station next to the Firehouse. I also spent a lot of time with Cindy Preston at the 12th District Mini-Station and she¹ll tell you so. I cannot speak for what happened after I moved from Cedar Park to Spruce Hill in 1994, but I know I did everything I could while I was there to contribute to the success of the community policing effort. Perhaps, it was not enough. I also take umbrage with certain properties, (which none of us own or have been associated with), being touted out as ³supreme examples² of what this neighborhood was before the UCD came, and how positive changes came about because of the UCD and ONLY the UCD. That may make some of our neighbors feel safer with the UCD¹s presence. However, it certainly does not speak for the area as a whole and belittles all the work long-time residents did with ALL the community associations AND the Penn institution trying to preserve the area, now only to see themselves shut out. Furthermore, what bothers me most is when people try to convince me that gentrification has nothing to do with displacing residents who do not have access to a powerful institution such as Penn to work on their behalf and at their behest. It matters not whether I or anyone else can start another venue who could be better than the UCD. What matters is that people who were trying to hold on to the remnants of their community and worked very, very hard in good faith with anyone they thought would help them, were not able to get such an entity to address THEIR needs. I just want their efforts to be acknowledged and not forgotten. -Wilma On 10/1/07 11:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/30/07 10:31:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for refocusing the discussion on the real issue, Karen. Kimm If the real issue is Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?, then Lt. McCurdy answered that question before this ever came up on the list, when Bill Brown and I asked at the meeting last week about what territory he covered: He replied that he reports to the 18th District at 55th Pine. If the real issue is, what can we fault the UCD for this week, then it's that the Lt. has cards he gave out so people know his phone number if they'd like his help, and some people on the list think they should be redesigned. Or perhaps people on the list think the police shouldn't be located at 39th Chestnut, or the police shouldn't communicate with the UCD. I'm not sure how it would most succinctly be framed; surely someone will correct me. But it seems to be about technicalities - I haven't heard anyone say they are outraged that a police lieutenant offered to make himself available to hear our needs. I was involved with Cedar Park Neighbors' board at the point that its ministation at the Firehouse, 50th Baltimore, had failed. We (CPN's dues-paying members) were paying its bills, such as phone and utilities, but no one was ever officially there (though the phone was being used)! So we had the phone turned off and the ministation ceased to exist. A ministation such as the one at the Firehouse was supposed to have had community people staffing it, and they were to have contact with the police and have police checking in with them - it was not to be staffed full-time by police officers. As we all know, there are a limited number of neighbors who volunteer, and they were choosing other volunteer activities - not sitting in a small room attached to the Firehouse. So when there were no community people there, CPN's Firehouse ministation was no longer viable. It is my understanding that the substation at 47th Chester, also relying on community volunteers, has had trouble sustaining itself because of a lack of participants. I'm not sure if it is still open, despite incredible dedication by its main volunteer, Cindy Preston. This is a very different model from having a real police substation - or whatever technical term it's called - staffed with police officers, like the one next door to the UCD. That station is open all the time, not dependent on volunteers. Isn't this good for our community? It can be difficult to get the attention of officers at the 18th District's 55th Pine location for the less-violent, less serious crimes of the types that we have in University City. Their focus is, understandably, on the very serious things that happen, often further west, closer to 55th Pine. They are less likely to have time to worry about burglaries of leaded glass windows on
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Brian Siano wrote: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote: potholes? missing sewer covers? broken streetlights? abandoned buildings? missing cats? leaky roofs? missing tools? volunteers for the park? for the festival? block cleanups? recycling? leaf pickups? safety workshops? carpooling? zoning petitions? blessing the animals? do you honestly think we can't handle it, melani? What do you mean we? I don't recall you showing up to volunteer in the Park or helping out with the festivals. Or doing much of anything beyond whingeing about UCD's pernicious influence. Hearing Ray talk about how we can get the job done is like hearing Donald Rumsfeld talk about how effective the U.S. Military is. Sure, we get a lot done... but it's not as if we can thank Ray for any of it. as if brian siano knows me personally enough to resort to ad hominem statements like these! as if brian siano knows the 'we' who can or cannot thank me! I just feel we'ed all over, I do. bleh. .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [aka laserbeam®] [aka ray] SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES. It is very clear on this listserve who these people are. Ray has admitted being connected to this forger. -- Tony West Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated, more believable -- Tony West You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In terms of the final question, I guess I would find a bank logo on such a card perplexing, rather than sinister. When there was a mini-station at 47th (?) and Chester, did it have its own stationery, or logo, or business cards? They, presumably would have represented a “true” grass-roots group. Suppose they had taken on a sponsor—perhaps their landlord, or a bank—would that logo have appeared on stationery or cards? No. The police are public law enforcement personnel, and they are not supposed to be acting as advertisements for private groups. The police are not supposed to be representing a true grass roots group, a sponsor, a landlord, a bank or anyone else but the citizens of the government they work for. The arrangements wherein private businesses or civic groups fund some aspect of police work is not intended to transform the police department into an advertising vehicle for the funders. The funders are stepping forward to augment police services by providing funding for programs that the police department budget would not otherwise allow for. Cedar Park Neighbors and the Firehouse Farmers Market sponsored a police ministation at 50th and Baltimore in the 1990's (it closed in 1999). There was concern about safety in the area, and CPN wanted bicycle patrols, which the 18th District didn't have the funding for. There was an obvious benefit for the market owner, because he had a police presence next door to his business. The benefit to CPN was similar: we were providing a community service by creating an additional layer of patrol that we would not have otherwise had. The market owner provided the space in a small office next to where the Satillite Coffee Shop is now. CPN paid the bills (utilities, office equipment, supplies, etc), provided volunteers to perform non-police functions, and paid for uniforms and bikes for the bike officers, which the 18th District detailed to the station. The uniforms we paid for were standard bike police uniforms: They did not have any advertising or mention of CPN or of the Market anywhere. One other point: any police items we paid for immediately became the property of the Philadelphia Police. Did we make it known that we were funding the ministation? Absolutely. But we did it in our CPN newsletter, UC Review, and in other similar venues. Did we do it by trying to put our name on the station, the Police Officers' uniforms or office stationery? Absolutely not! This was not a Little League team where Sam's Hardware gets to be emblazoned across the backs of the uniforms. When the Police Officers detailed to that ministation were performing their duties, there was nothing to differentiate them from any other Philadelphia Police Officer detailed anywhere else. The police needed a base and funds to operate, and we provided that. The money paid for whatever the Police Department would have normally used in carrying out its function. Whether stationery, uniforms, or anything else that was needed, it was the police who made the decisions, not us. We paid the bills and also provided civilian staffing. Beyond that, it was still the Philadelphia Police Department, not the Cedar Park Neighbors Philadelphia Police Department, or the Firehouse Farmers Market Philadelphia Police Department. As for that UCD business card: The Lieutenant's business card should have been a standard City of Philadelphia business card, with the city's seal, his identifying information, address University City Substation, 3942 Chestnut Street, City of Philadelphia e-mail address. That makes it clear that he works for the Philadelphia Police Department. UCD's name and logo had no place on that business card. Period. I’m straying into the theoretical, which I generally hate on this list—but corporate logos on public functions are becoming rather common these days—I saw many examples of them on a vacation to Nova Scotia this summer—from signs over concession stands to lifeguards tee-shirts. I doubt that there were corporate logos on anything connected to the Police Department. Karen Allen From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:09:22 -0400 In terms of the final question, I guess I would find a bank logo on such a card perplexing, rather than sinister. When there was a mini-station at 47th (?) and Chester, did it have its own stationery, or logo, or business cards? They, presumably would have represented a “true” grass-roots group. Suppose they had taken on a sponsor—perhaps their landlord, or a bank—would that logo have appeared on stationery or cards? I’m straying into the theoretical, which I generally hate on this list—but corporate logos on public functions are becoming rather common these days—I saw many examples of them on a vacation
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
in carrying out its function. Whether stationery, uniforms, or anything else that was needed, it was the police who made the decisions, not us. We paid the bills and also provided civilian staffing. Beyond that, it was still the Philadelphia Police Department, not the Cedar Park Neighbors Philadelphia Police Department, or the Firehouse Farmers Market Philadelphia Police Department. As for that UCD business card: The Lieutenant's business card should have been a standard City of Philadelphia business card, with the city's seal, his identifying information, address University City Substation, 3942 Chestnut Street, City of Philadelphia e-mail address. That makes it clear that he works for the Philadelphia Police Department. UCD's name and logo had no place on that business card. Period. I¹m straying into the theoretical, which I generally hate on this listbut corporate logos on public functions are becoming rather common these daysI saw many examples of them on a vacation to Nova Scotia this summerfrom signs over concession stands to lifeguards tee-shirts. I doubt that there were corporate logos on anything connected to the Police Department. Karen Allen From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: univcity@list.purple.com Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:09:22 -0400 In terms of the final question, I guess I would find a bank logo on such a card perplexing, rather than sinister. When there was a mini-station at 47th (?) and Chester, did it have its own stationery, or logo, or business cards? They, presumably would have represented a ³true² grass-roots group. Suppose they had taken on a sponsorperhaps their landlord, or a bankwould that logo have appeared on stationery or cards? I¹m straying into the theoretical, which I generally hate on this listbut corporate logos on public functions are becoming rather common these daysI saw many examples of them on a vacation to Nova Scotia this summerfrom signs over concession stands to lifeguards tee-shirts. I think, in the end, I agree that this card was poorly thought out on UCD¹s part. Here¹s wording I would have thought of as more appropriate: --- Lt so and so Philadelphia Police Department UCD LOGO University City District Police Substation (contact informationemail, phone, street address) - --- According to: http://www.ucityphila.org/ucd_programs/public_safety/police_substation UCD is providing space for a substation serving 25 officers 18 hours a day, 7 days a week. That¹s a pretty significant investment, although I¹d agree that there¹s no question that the University itself gets substantial value out of that arrangement, the surrounding neighborhoods do too. Would it be even better without the logo? Sure! I hate this trend of having commercial logos on everything. Would it be better if they chopped ³District² out of the name of the substation? Yes, againbut they are paying the billsI suppose it it gets too blurry we neighbors would complain that things were being concealed Unfortunately, I deleted the text posting of the actual card the other day, so I hope what I¹ve posted isn¹t just what the card actually says.. It seems to me that a lot of this comes down to feelings about the difference between this particular sponsored police substation, and the similar efforts which were presumably more truly grass roots, such as the one at 47th Chester. I don¹t begrudge the UCD some publicity for providing that space, but they do need to be a bit more sensitive, I think. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:26 AM To: 'UnivCity listserv' Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? As you said, it is important that the lines of police authority be direct, and lead to the civil authorities, and not a private corporation. But that's the impression that business card creates. That card created the impression that a ranking Philadelphia Police Officer, a person with the power to enforce the full range of governmental police powers, was himself subordinate to a private entity that is not answerable to the public. It also created the impression that that entity was itself so powerful that it had its own police powers via the officer. With public authority, the citizens have the right to vote for those people who exercise it, to have oversight of those actions, and to have myriad controls in place to assure that actions taken are reflective of the wishes of a majority of citizens. People who have issues with the Police Department have
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/30/2007 12:05:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The market owner provided the space in a small office next to where the Satillite Coffee Shop is now. Anyway, UCD doesn'tt own the buildings at 3940-42 Chestnut Street. The Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania own them. Penn provides space at 3940 to UCD for office (and bagel distribution) use, and at 3942 Chestnut to the City of Philadelphia for police ministation use. So there isn't even that tenuous connection between Lt McCurdy and UCD. Rationalization and untenable assumptions by those who want UCD to look like heroes, hoping to rid the neighborhood of slumlords and others of the benighted unwashed masses, aside, this is more over-reaching on the parts of Wendell Lewis' minions to insinuate a private layer of government between the people and the legitimate authority conferred by: 1. The Philadelphia Home Rule Charter 2. The Pennsylvania Constitution 3. The United States Constitution. They're not going to get away with it. In large part because they're not smart enough to do so. And this business with a Philadelphia Police Lieutenant being made to look like a UCD flunkie just so they can advance their agenda, is an example of how bumbling they really are. Always at your service and ready for a diatribe -- er, dialog. Al Krigman ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/30/07 1:04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyway, UCD doesn'tt own the buildings at 3940-42 Chestnut Street. The Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania own them. Penn provides space at 3940 to UCD for office (and bagel distribution) use, and at 3942 Chestnut to the City of Philadelphia for police ministation use. So there isn't even that tenuous connection between Lt McCurdy and UCD. Provides space, perhaps, but I think I've read on the list that Penn tends to charge high rents. Are you saying that Penn doesn't charge the UCD or the police ministation any rent, Al? Have you verified this? Melani Lamond Melani Lamond, Associate Broker Urban Bye, Realtor 3529 Lancaster Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19104 cell phone 215-356-7266 office phone 215-222-4800, ext. 113 office fax 215-222-1101 ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/30/2007 3:47:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you saying that Penn doesn't charge the UCD or the police ministation any rent, Al? There you go again Melani. Putting words in someone else's mouth so you can then shoot down what you then say is their argument. Very shallow. I didn't say this at all, as is plain to see. Why would you say the above? I thought, with others, we were through with this when you joined the other list and stopped posting here. Well, welcome back. But try to act more decently than the above implies. Always at your service and ready for a dialog (where I get to say what I say, not what someone else says I say) Al Krigman ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Fwd: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ---BeginMessage--- In a message dated 9/30/07 4:08:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 9/30/2007 3:47:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you saying that Penn doesn't charge the UCD or the police ministation any rent, Al? There you go again Melani. Putting words in someone else's mouth so you can then shoot down what you then say is their argument. Very shallow. I didn't say this at all, as is plain to see. Why would you say the above? I thought, with others, we were through with this when you joined the other list and stopped posting here. Well, welcome back. But try to act more decently than the above implies. Always at your service and ready for a dialog (where I get to say what I say, not what someone else says I say) Al Krigman So, what DO you say, Al? Can yo expand on your earlier statement so there's no need to misinterpret it? What did you mean when you wrote: In a message dated 9/30/07 1:04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyway, UCD doesn'tt own the buildings at 3940-42 Chestnut Street. The Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania own them. Penn provides space at 3940 to UCD for office (and bagel distribution) use, and at 3942 Chestnut to the City of Philadelphia for police ministation use. So there isn't even that tenuous connection between Lt McCurdy and UCD. Melani Lamond, Associate Broker Urban Bye, Realtor 3529 Lancaster Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19104 cell phone 215-356-7266 office phone 215-222-4800, ext. 113 office fax 215-222-1101 2006 recipient of the Greater Philadelphia Association of Realtors awards: - Diamond award for over $8 million in sales, and ALL SIX of the West Philadelphia awards: - Top Lister - Top Seller - Top Overall Combined Volume - Top Listing Units by Area - Top Selling Units by Area - Top Overall Combined Units by Area ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ---End Message---
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/30/2007 4:12:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MLamond writes: So, what DO you say, Al? Can yo expand on your earlier statement so there's no need to misinterpret it? What did you mean when you wrote: You're not that dense, Melani. I meant what I said... It's not complicated. I provided the people on the useful list with the information that Penn owns the property and provides space to UCD and the Police Dept. No more, no less. If you're so fired up to find out whether either or both pay for the space or get it free or under some other arrangement, do your own research. All you have to do is call Wendell Lewis and ask him, if you're so darn interested in finding out (as opposed to nitpicking or stamping your adorable little foot while the steam comes out of those cute pixie-like ears). Personally, I don't care one way or the other. It's not the least bit important. What's important is the fact that UCD does not provide the Police Dept with the space -- which was the false assumption someone made that I was correcting. Always at your service and ready for a dialog. Al Krigman ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/30/07 4:55:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I meant what I said... It's not complicated. I provided the people on the useful list with the information that Penn owns the property and provides space to UCD and the Police Dept. No more, no less. So it appears that you have nothing to substantiate your claim that... In a message dated 9/30/07 1:04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ...So there isn't even that tenuous connection between Lt McCurdy and UCD. ...that tenuous connection in your earlier email being who provides the space, when the provider, in the way you were using the word, would actually be the entity absorbing the cost for the space, right? If we don't know if Penn is giving it to the police for free, or UCD is renting it and giving it to the police for free, or if the police are paying their own rent - then we don't know what the connection is between UCD and the police station, although you've stated that there isn't one. You were attempting to lead your readers to a conclusion without actually having the facts necessary to reach the conclusion. And as usual, you were happy to resort to ad hominem attacks to change the subject when I asked questions. Whenever you present distorted statements or unsupported conclusions as fact on this list, it is likely that I'll question them. A careful reader, Melani Lamond Melani Lamond, Associate Broker Urban Bye, Realtor 3529 Lancaster Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19104 cell phone 215-356-7266 office phone 215-222-4800, ext. 113 office fax 215-222-1101 ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/30/07 5:46:05 PM, Krfapt writes: In a message dated 9/30/2007 5:43:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A careful reader, Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha That's even funnier than the post itself. Al You're grasping at straws, Al. Melani Lamond Melani Lamond, Associate Broker Urban Bye, Realtor 3529 Lancaster Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19104 cell phone 215-356-7266 office phone 215-222-4800, ext. 113 office fax 215-222-1101 ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
If we don't know if Penn is giving it to the police for free, or UCD is renting it and giving it to the police for free, or if the police are paying their own rent - then we don't know what the connection is between UCD and the police station, although you've stated that there isn't one. Whether Penn, UCD or some combination charges the City no rent, market rent, subsidized rent, or whatever, that doesn't give UCD the right to assert authority, whether actual or symbolic, over the personnel and functions of the Philadelphia Police Department. One is a non-profit organization, the other is a branch of municipal government. To take this chain of logic to its conclusion is to state or suggest state that the independence of a branch of municipal government can be redirected to a private entity merely by providing free or subsidized rent. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:34:10 -0400Subject: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] a message dated 9/30/07 4:55:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I meant what I said... It's not complicated. I provided the people on the useful list with the information that Penn owns the property and provides space to UCD and the Police Dept. No more, no less.So it appears that you have nothing to substantiate your claim that...In a message dated 9/30/07 1:04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ...So there isn't even that tenuous connection between Lt McCurdy and UCDthat tenuous connection in your earlier email being who provides the space, when the provider, in the way you were using the word, would actually be the entity absorbing the cost for the space, right? If we don't know if Penn is giving it to the police for free, or UCD is renting it and giving it to the police for free, or if the police are paying their own rent - then we don't know what the connection is between UCD and the police station, although you've stated that there isn't one. You were attempting to lead your readers to a conclusion without actually having the facts necessary to reach the conclusion. And as usual, you were happy to resort to ad hominem attacks to change the subject when I asked questions. Whenever you present distorted statements or unsupported conclusions as fact on this list, it is likely that I'll question them.A careful reader, Melani LamondMelani Lamond, Associate BrokerUrban Bye, Realtor3529 Lancaster Ave.Philadelphia, PA 19104cell phone 215-356-7266office phone 215-222-4800, ext. 113office fax 215-222-1101**See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
. The police needed a base and funds to operate, and we provided that. The money paid for whatever the Police Department would have normally used in carrying out its function. Whether stationery, uniforms, or anything else that was needed, it was the police who made the decisions, not us. We paid the bills and also provided civilian staffing. Beyond that, it was still the Philadelphia Police Department, not the Cedar Park Neighbors Philadelphia Police Department, or the Firehouse Farmers Market Philadelphia Police Department. As for that UCD business card: The Lieutenant's business card should have been a standard City of Philadelphia business card, with the city's seal, his identifying information, address University City Substation, 3942 Chestnut Street, City of Philadelphia e-mail address. That makes it clear that he works for the Philadelphia Police Department. UCD's name and logo had no place on that business card. Period. I¹m straying into the theoretical, which I generally hate on this listbut corporate logos on public functions are becoming rather common these daysI saw many examples of them on a vacation to Nova Scotia this summerfrom signs over concession stands to lifeguards tee-shirts. I doubt that there were corporate logos on anything connected to the Police Department. Karen Allen From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: univcity@list.purple.com Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:09:22 -0400 In terms of the final question, I guess I would find a bank logo on such a card perplexing, rather than sinister. When there was a mini-station at 47th (?) and Chester, did it have its own stationery, or logo, or business cards? They, presumably would have represented a ³true² grass-roots group. Suppose they had taken on a sponsorperhaps their landlord, or a bankwould that logo have appeared on stationery or cards? I¹m straying into the theoretical, which I generally hate on this listbut corporate logos on public functions are becoming rather common these daysI saw many examples of them on a vacation to Nova Scotia this summerfrom signs over concession stands to lifeguards tee-shirts. I think, in the end, I agree that this card was poorly thought out on UCD¹s part. Here¹s wording I would have thought of as more appropriate: --- Lt so and so Philadelphia Police Department UCD LOGO University City District Police Substation (contact informationemail, phone, street address) According to: http://www.ucityphila.org/ucd_programs/public_safety/police_substation UCD is providing space for a substation serving 25 officers 18 hours a day, 7 days a week. That¹s a pretty significant investment, although I¹d agree that there¹s no question that the University itself gets substantial value out of that arrangement, the surrounding neighborhoods do too. Would it be even better without the logo? Sure! I hate this trend of having commercial logos on everything. Would it be better if they chopped ³District² out of the name of the substation? Yes, againbut they are paying the billsI suppose it it gets too blurry we neighbors would complain that things were being concealed Unfortunately, I deleted the text posting of the actual card the other day, so I hope what I¹ve posted isn¹t just what the card actually says.. It seems to me that a lot of this comes down to feelings about the difference between this particular sponsored police substation, and the similar efforts which were presumably more truly grass roots, such as the one at 47th Chester. I don¹t begrudge the UCD some publicity for providing that space, but they do need to be a bit more sensitive, I think. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:26 AM To: 'UnivCity listserv' Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? As you said, it is important that the lines of police authority be direct, and lead to the civil authorities, and not a private corporation. But that's the impression that business card creates. That card created the impression that a ranking Philadelphia Police Officer, a person with the power to enforce the full range of governmental police powers, was himself subordinate to a private entity that is not answerable to the public. It also created the impression that that entity was itself so powerful that it had its own police powers via the officer. With public authority, the citizens have the right to vote for those people who exercise it, to have oversight of those actions, and to have myriad controls
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Thanks for refocusing the discussion on the real issue, Karen. Kimm On 9/30/07 7:46 PM, KAREN ALLEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we don't know if Penn is giving it to the police for free, or UCD is renting it and giving it to the police for free, or if the police are paying their own rent - then we don't know what the connection is between UCD and the police station, although you've stated that there isn't one. Whether Penn, UCD or some combination charges the City no rent, market rent, subsidized rent, or whatever, that doesn't give UCD the right to assert authority, whether actual or symbolic, over the personnel and functions of the Philadelphia Police Department. One is a non-profit organization, the other is a branch of municipal government. To take this chain of logic to its conclusion is to state or suggest state that the independence of a branch of municipal government can be redirected to a private entity merely by providing free or subsidized rent. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:34:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? To: univcity@list.purple.com merel In a message dated 9/30/07 4:55:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I meant what I said... It's not complicated. I provided the people on the useful list with the information that Penn owns the property and provides space to UCD and the Police Dept. No more, no less. So it appears that you have nothing to substantiate your claim that... In a message dated 9/30/07 1:04:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ...So there isn't even that tenuous connection between Lt McCurdy and UCD. ...that tenuous connection in your earlier email being who provides the space, when the provider, in the way you were using the word, would actually be the entity absorbing the cost for the space, right? If we don't know if Penn is giving it to the police for free, or UCD is renting it and giving it to the police for free, or if the police are paying their own rent - then we don't know what the connection is between UCD and the police station, although you've stated that there isn't one. You were attempting to lead your readers to a conclusion without actually having the facts necessary to reach the conclusion. And as usual, you were happy to resort to ad hominem attacks to change the subject when I asked questions. Whenever you present distorted statements or unsupported conclusions as fact on this list, it is likely that I'll question them. A careful reader, Melani Lamond Melani Lamond, Associate Broker Urban Bye, Realtor 3529 Lancaster Ave. Philadelphia, PA 19104 cell phone 215-356-7266 office phone 215-222-4800, ext. 113 office fax 215-222-1101 ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/28/2007 8:58:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I know why AL is making this fuss Apparently, Melani has transferred her telepathic reception powers to you. I'll have to get out the lead-lined helmet I put away when I thought Melani had deserted us bagel-and-schmerkase types for the tea-and-crumpets set over at sweetbarkingcheese.com. Al Krigman Left of Ivan Grozny ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/29/2007 9:42:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, Al. THANKS for exhuming Melani and company on our public forum. We were doing just fine while they were over at UCBurghars . They’re back with a vengeance! Well, Wilma, they are annoying, what with their negativism toward open discussion, personal attacks, nonsequitors, and so on. And the solid citizens have enjoyed the respit from their mean-spiritedness toward others with legitimate viewpoints, however acrimoniously expressed, with which we may not have concurred,. However, they are part of the community so we shouldn't say things that make them feel unwelcome. You know, diversity and all; it doesn't just mean race, religion, and national origin but includes the anointed as well as the benighted and so forth. Besides that, I wouldn't want to sentence even my most outspoken and misguided critics to the benzoic sulfinide induced boredom of sweetbarkingcheese.com. Anyway, the three meaningless personal attacks on me yesterday gave me a good laugh, as they should you. Al ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
I agree. With liberty and justice for all. Just kidding, folks! Seriously, I never really wanted them to leave and felt bad they thought they HAD to leave, whatever affiliation or persuasion they might be. No matter what we are all neighbors, here. On 9/29/07 10:22 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/29/2007 9:42:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, Al. THANKS for exhuming Melani and company on our public forum. We were doing just fine while they were over at UCBurghars . They¹re back with a vengeance! Well, Wilma, they are annoying, what with their negativism toward open discussion, personal attacks, nonsequitors, and so on. And the solid citizens have enjoyed the respit from their mean-spiritedness toward others with legitimate viewpoints, however acrimoniously expressed, with which we may not have concurred,. However, they are part of the community so we shouldn't say things that make them feel unwelcome. You know, diversity and all; it doesn't just mean race, religion, and national origin but includes the anointed as well as the benighted and so forth. Besides that, I wouldn't want to sentence even my most outspoken and misguided critics to the benzoic sulfinide induced boredom of sweetbarkingcheese.com. Anyway, the three meaningless personal attacks on me yesterday gave me a good laugh, as they should you. Al See what's new at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP0030001170 and Make AOL Your Homepage http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP0030001169 .
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In terms of the final question, I guess I would find a bank logo on such a card perplexing, rather than sinister. When there was a mini-station at 47th (?) and Chester, did it have its own stationery, or logo, or business cards? They, presumably would have represented a true grass-roots group. Suppose they had taken on a sponsor-perhaps their landlord, or a bank-would that logo have appeared on stationery or cards? I'm straying into the theoretical, which I generally hate on this list-but corporate logos on public functions are becoming rather common these days-I saw many examples of them on a vacation to Nova Scotia this summer-from signs over concession stands to lifeguards tee-shirts. I think, in the end, I agree that this card was poorly thought out on UCD's part. Here's wording I would have thought of as more appropriate: --- Lt so and so Philadelphia Police Department UCD LOGO University City District Police Substation (contact information-email, phone, street address) According to: http://www.ucityphila.org/ucd_programs/public_safety/police_substation UCD is providing space for a substation serving 25 officers 18 hours a day, 7 days a week. That's a pretty significant investment, although I'd agree that there's no question that the University itself gets substantial value out of that arrangement, the surrounding neighborhoods do too. Would it be even better without the logo? Sure! I hate this trend of having commercial logos on everything. Would it be better if they chopped District out of the name of the substation? Yes, again-but they are paying the bills.I suppose it it gets too blurry we neighbors would complain that things were being concealed. Unfortunately, I deleted the text posting of the actual card the other day, so I hope what I've posted isn't just what the card actually says... It seems to me that a lot of this comes down to feelings about the difference between this particular sponsored police substation, and the similar efforts which were presumably more truly grass roots, such as the one at 47th Chester. I don't begrudge the UCD some publicity for providing that space, but they do need to be a bit more sensitive, I think. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:26 AM To: 'UnivCity listserv' Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? As you said, it is important that the lines of police authority be direct, and lead to the civil authorities, and not a private corporation. But that's the impression that business card creates. That card created the impression that a ranking Philadelphia Police Officer, a person with the power to enforce the full range of governmental police powers, was himself subordinate to a private entity that is not answerable to the public. It also created the impression that that entity was itself so powerful that it had its own police powers via the officer. With public authority, the citizens have the right to vote for those people who exercise it, to have oversight of those actions, and to have myriad controls in place to assure that actions taken are reflective of the wishes of a majority of citizens. People who have issues with the Police Department have recourse through the elected government. That is the problem with UCD: it is a private entity that has taken on governmental functions, but who is it answerable to? This past year, they wanted the power to tax, the ultimate government power. But who elected those who made the crucial decisions that governed that proposal? How were those slated to be taxed represented in ithe creation of the proposal? Which members of the public elected the UCD administration? How do we remove or replace their administration if we the public deem them to be unresponsive to our needs? They do what many think are good deeds, but what exernal controls exist to make sure that what they do are of actual benefit to the many, and what does the public do if not? RE: I really don't see the fact that the guy has a printed business card carrying a UCD logo, and identifying him (correctly) as a Philadelphia police officer-to be anything sinister or confusing. You may say what's the big deal? It was just a business card, and UCD paid for the cards. Think of it this way: would your impression be different if the names and logos of a Wachovia or a Citizens Bank appeared on that card? Karen Allen
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
The most disturbing part, to me, is the UCD phone number and extension on the card. The police substation has its own phone number but UCD and Lt. McCurdy are suggesting we call *UCD* for law enforcement issues. That's just creepy. I notice UCD isn't inserting themselves in the SEPTA/Chester Ave./ Belgian Block controversy, though. Frankus Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible. On Sep 29, 2007, at 03:09 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote: In terms of the final question, I guess I would find a bank logo on such a card perplexing, rather than sinister. When there was a mini-station at 47th (?) and Chester, did it have its own stationery, or logo, or business cards? They, presumably would have represented a “true” grass-roots group. Suppose they had taken on a sponsor—perhaps their landlord, or a bank—would that logo have appeared on stationery or cards? I’m straying into the theoretical, which I generally hate on this list—but corporate logos on public functions are becoming rather common these days—I saw many examples of them on a vacation to Nova Scotia this summer—from signs over concession stands to lifeguards tee-shirts. I think, in the end, I agree that this card was poorly thought out on UCD’s part. Here’s wording I would have thought of as more appropriate: --- Lt so and so Philadelphia Police Department UCD LOGO University City District Police Substation (contact information—email, phone, street address) -- -- According to: http://www.ucityphila.org/ucd_programs/public_safety/ police_substation UCD is providing space for a substation serving 25 officers 18 hours a day, 7 days a week. That’s a pretty significant investment, although I’d agree that there’s no question that the University itself gets substantial value out of that arrangement, the surrounding neighborhoods do too. Would it be even better without the logo? Sure! I hate this trend of having commercial logos on everything. Would it be better if they chopped “District” out of the name of the substation? Yes, again—but they are paying the bills…I suppose it it gets too blurry we neighbors would complain that things were being concealed… Unfortunately, I deleted the text posting of the actual card the other day, so I hope what I’ve posted isn’t just what the card actually says….. It seems to me that a lot of this comes down to feelings about the difference between this particular sponsored police substation, and the similar efforts which were presumably more truly grass roots, such as the one at 47th Chester. I don’t begrudge the UCD some publicity for providing that space, but they do need to be a bit more sensitive, I think. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 12:26 AM To: 'UnivCity listserv' Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? As you said, it is important that the lines of police authority be direct, and lead to the civil authorities, and not a private corporation. But that's the impression that business card creates. That card created the impression that a ranking Philadelphia Police Officer, a person with the power to enforce the full range of governmental police powers, was himself subordinate to a private entity that is not answerable to the public. It also created the impression that that entity was itself so powerful that it had its own police powers via the officer. With public authority, the citizens have the right to vote for those people who exercise it, to have oversight of those actions, and to have myriad controls in place to assure that actions taken are reflective of the wishes of a majority of citizens. People who have issues with the Police Department have recourse through the elected government. That is the problem with UCD: it is a private entity that has taken on governmental functions, but who is it answerable to? This past year, they wanted the power to tax, the ultimate government power. But who elected those who made the crucial decisions that governed that proposal? How were those slated to be taxed represented in ithe creation of the proposal? Which members of the public elected the UCD administration? How do we remove or replace their administration if we the public deem them to be unresponsive to our needs? They do what many think are good deeds, but what exernal controls exist to make sure that what they do are of actual benefit to the many, and what does the public do if not? RE: I really don’t see the fact that the guy has a printed business card carrying a UCD logo, and identifying him (correctly) as a Philadelphia police officer—to be anything sinister or confusing. You may say what's
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/29/2007 3:58:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The most disturbing part, to me, is the UCD phone number and extension on the card. The police substation has its own phone number but UCD and Lt. McCurdy are suggesting we call *UCD* for law enforcement issues. That's just creepy. I notice UCD isn't inserting themselves in the SEPTA/Chester Ave./Belgian Block controversy, though. Like getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar? Or, the bagel and muffin box? Always at your service and ready for a diatribe -- er, dialog. Al Krigman ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
I believe that a number of members of Penn’s police force are also Philadelphia police officers Those beliefs and suspicions are incorrect. Police officers cannot work for two different police departments at the same time. Penn Police and the Philadelphia Police are two separate police departments. They have overlapping jurisdictions insofar as the Penn Police patrol area falls within the Phila. Police Dept's 18th District. Sharing the same patrol area does not mean that the two departments are one and the same. The Lieutenant in question has one job title, that of being a Lieutenant of the Philadelphia Police Department. He is an Officer employed by the City of Philadelphia. He is detailed to a Philadelphia Police substation on premises donated by the University City District. This arrangement is similar to the former Police Substation at 50th and Baltimore donated by the then-operater of the Firehouse Farmer's Market [now Dock Street] and paid for by Cedar Park Neighbors, and the current Squirrel Hill Substation operated at 46th and Chester. Although private and community entities provided the money and premises in order for the substations to operate, no one dared suggest that doing so made the Police Officers detailed to those substations the employees or subordinates of those non-police entities. Being detailed to the substation donated by UCD does not make the Lieutenant an employee of the University City District, any more than being detailed to the sports complex would make him an employee of the Eagles or the Phillies. It is deceitful of UCD and demeaning to the Lieutenant to make it appear that the Lieutenant is subordinate to UCD administration, rather than being the Commander of a Philadelphia Police Substation that happens to be supplied by UCD. He is responsible to the Philadelphia Police chain of command, not to Lewis Wendell or UCD. It is a deliberate blurring of authority that further creates the impression that UCD is a governmental entity in and of itself, with authority over everything in this area, including the duly sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department. Karen Allen From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:57:27 -0400 I believe that a number of members of Penn’s police force are also Philadelphia police officers. I suspect that they are clear on the lines of authority, that card notwithstanding. Presumably the officer in question has two job titles, and chose the more impressive of the two to put on the card. I think this is a long standing arrangement, and presumably the University and the Philadelphia police department both find it to their advantage. I really don’t know more than this—asking the officer in question directly would probably get more useful information. He can be reached at: [EMAIL PROTECTED], or 215 243 0555, extension 241. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLENSent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:58 PMTo: 'University City List'Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? The card was not for a Lieutenant of the University of Pennsylvania Police department. It was for a Lieutenant of the PHILADELPHIA Police Department. The PHILADELPHIA Police Department and its employees are not employees of Penn, the Penn Police, or of UCD. It is a governmental agency of the CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, wholly supported by and answerable to the citizens of Philadelphia and its elected representatives, and NOT to UCD. Having a UCD business card with the name of a ranking member of the PHILADELPHIA Police Department mentioned in small letters symbolically, if not actually, subjects the Lieutenant to the perception that he is nothing more than a subordinate of UCD and its administrators, and that UCD has authority in Philadelphia Police matters which supercedes that of the Lieutenant's actual employer, the citizens and elected representatives of the City of Philadelphia. Karen AllenFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:50:37 -0400 I'm a little startled at all the posters here for whom this information here seems to be new. I don't think much has changed in the way Penn's police force has worked in many years. Nothing I've read here differs from what I understood about their police force when I moved into the neighborhood about 35 years ago. Somehow, I can't read the wording on that card as some new sign of decline in democracy, but then I've always had a sunny disposition. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. From: [EMAIL
Landlord meeting [was: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/28/07 4:31:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is deceitful of UCD and demeaning to the Lieutenant to make it appear that the Lieutenant is subordinate to UCD administration, rather than being the Commander of a Philadelphia Police Substation that happens to be supplied by UCD. He is responsible to the Philadelphia Police chain of command, not to Lewis Wendell or UCD. It is a deliberate blurring of authority that further creates the impression that UCD is a governmental entity in and of itself, with authority over everything in this area, including the duly sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department. I'd like to add more information on the landlord meeting that Al Krigman (but not Karen Allen) attended on Wednesday morning. I was there also. I think that perhaps Al's information may have provided a somewhat skewed version of the proceedings and unnecessarily fanned the anti-UCD flames on the list. At any rate, there's no reason not to have more than one report, right? Just before the meeting began, Al helped himself to his hosts' bagel cream cheese breakfast, and kindly offered me some advice when I picked up two bite-sized muffins for myself: If you eat those, sweetheart, you'll get fat. UCD sent out the invitations to area landlords and provided space for the meeting. Lindsay Johnston of Common Ground Realtors chaired it, assisted by Penn's Off Campus Living Office Director Miki Farcas, who has organized periodic meetings for landlords who use OCL's services for many, many years. Her office doesn't have a conference room, so the meetings have always had to be held elsewhere. An agenda had been distributed in advance, and speakers talked about various topics, including: rental rates and trends in UC (Miki Farcas), crime and fire safety (Lt. McCurdy and others), the Rental Suitability Act (Marcia Nelson, City of Philadelphia, LI Dept.), UCD initiatives (Carolyn Hewson). Also, UCD's new director of Operations, Clean Safe, Dexter Bryant, was introduced. Perhaps that will be of more interest to the UC list than Lt. McCurdy's contact information. If anyone is interested, I can tell you a little more about him. Let me know. We all listened to the various speakers, asking questions and making comments as we chose, sometimes telling them something THEY didn't know! At the end, Lindsay asked if we'd like to have future meetings, and the consensus was that we would; the next one will be planned for January. Minutes from the meeting were delivered via email yesterday. Here's the section on Lt. McCurdy: Lt. John McCurdy of the Philadelphia Police Department introduced himself as a 22-year veteran of the PPD and explained the UCD sub-station co-located with UCD’s administrative offices. He distributed his business card and encouraged those present to contact him directly to report problems ([EMAIL PROTECTED], 215/387-3942), emphasizing that requests for immediate/emergency assistance should go to 911. He said that problems could be reported by phone, in writing, or by email. He distributed and discussed 15 tips to help apartment residents maintain a safe environment. He clarified that the UCD sub-station covers Powelton Village and extends west to 50th Street. The requirements for fire safety can conflict with those for security. For instance, LI does not permit deadbolts that require a key to operate because they are dangerous in case of fire. LI mandates that all rooms in which people sleep have egress through the windows, precluding the use of bars. Campus Apartments is using screens that increase security but which can be opened in the event of fire. Strollers and bicycles are often kept in hallways for security reasons, but this blocks or impedes passage in emergency situations. UCD staff offered to poll landlords to identify common issues such as bike storage to determine whether there might be vendors of products such as bike pods that could help ameliorate challenging issues. The police encourage the use of cameras for security, and rental insurance for tenants. PPD is aware of the recent upsurge in theft of architectural elements such as leaded glass from buildings and plain clothes burglary teams are deployed to address this and related concerns. Brass exterior connections are also being stolen for scrap metal. The police will perform safety audits at the request of landlords or tenants. Lt. McCurdy offered repeatedly to make himself available to help with problems that are not 911 issues. I don't think that anyone attending the meeting was confused about who he worked for or reported to. We only had questions about the territory. Landlord Bill Brown asked him if he handled problems in Powelton (he said yes), and I asked how far west he covers. He replied that he covers to 50th St. and beyond, since he works out of the 18th
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Thanks for correcting my understanding, which was incorrect. I still find the tenor of this discussion perplexing. I really don't see the fact that the guy has a printed business card carrying a UCD logo, and identifying him (correctly) as a Philadelphia police officer-to be anything sinister or confusing. I know why AL is making this fuss, but I find the level of your ire about this somewhat unexpected-- You said: It is a deliberate blurring of authority that further creates the impression that UCD is a governmental entity in and of itself, with authority over everything in this area, including the duly sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department. I don't read it that way-I read the card as stating that he's a Philadelphia Police Officer (if it really mattered, I would want to see a badge anyway)-and that the UCD paid for printing the card, as well as providing the office space, phone, and email addresses. So-our viewpoints differ-I do see the UCD as helpful rather than controlling or taking over. When it comes to police activities, I'd agree that it is pretty important that the lines of authority be direct, and lead to the civil authorities, and not a private corporation. Have you had experiences in that specific area-police activity-that you see as examples of the UCD overstepping a boundary? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:29 PM To: UnivCity listserv Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? I believe that a number of members of Penn's police force are also Philadelphia police officers Those beliefs and suspicions are incorrect. Police officers cannot work for two different police departments at the same time. Penn Police and the Philadelphia Police are two separate police departments. They have overlapping jurisdictions insofar as the Penn Police patrol area falls within the Phila. Police Dept's 18th District. Sharing the same patrol area does not mean that the two departments are one and the same. The Lieutenant in question has one job title, that of being a Lieutenant of the Philadelphia Police Department. He is an Officer employed by the City of Philadelphia. He is detailed to a Philadelphia Police substation on premises donated by the University City District. This arrangement is similar to the former Police Substation at 50th and Baltimore donated by the then-operater of the Firehouse Farmer's Market [now Dock Street] and paid for by Cedar Park Neighbors, and the current Squirrel Hill Substation operated at 46th and Chester. Although private and community entities provided the money and premises in order for the substations to operate, no one dared suggest that doing so made the Police Officers detailed to those substations the employees or subordinates of those non-police entities. Being detailed to the substation donated by UCD does not make the Lieutenant an employee of the University City District, any more than being detailed to the sports complex would make him an employee of the Eagles or the Phillies. It is deceitful of UCD and demeaning to the Lieutenant to make it appear that the Lieutenant is subordinate to UCD administration, rather than being the Commander of a Philadelphia Police Substation that happens to be supplied by UCD. He is responsible to the Philadelphia Police chain of command, not to Lewis Wendell or UCD. It is a deliberate blurring of authority that further creates the impression that UCD is a governmental entity in and of itself, with authority over everything in this area, including the duly sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department. Karen Allen From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: univcity@list.purple.com Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:57:27 -0400 I believe that a number of members of Penn's police force are also Philadelphia police officers. I suspect that they are clear on the lines of authority, that card notwithstanding. Presumably the officer in question has two job titles, and chose the more impressive of the two to put on the card. I think this is a long standing arrangement, and presumably the University and the Philadelphia police department both find it to their advantage. I really don't know more than this-asking the officer in question directly would probably get more useful information. He can be reached at: [EMAIL PROTECTED], or 215 243 0555, extension 241. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:58 PM To: 'University City List' Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? The card was not for a Lieutenant of the University of Pennsylvania Police department. It was for a Lieutenant of the PHILADELPHIA Police Department
RE: Landlord meeting [was: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Thanks for a much more useful summary of the meeting than Al provided, even though you could have left some of that detail out. (as I recall, neither you nor Al are likely to be described as fat) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:33 PM To: univcity@list.purple.com Subject: Landlord meeting [was: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? I'd like to add more information on the landlord meeting that Al Krigman (but not Karen Allen) attended on Wednesday morning. I was there also. I think that perhaps Al's information may have provided a somewhat skewed version of the proceedings and unnecessarily fanned the anti-UCD flames on the list. At any rate, there's no reason not to have more than one report, right? Just before the meeting began, Al helped himself to his hosts' bagel cream cheese breakfast, and kindly offered me some advice when I picked up two bite-sized muffins for myself: If you eat those, sweetheart, you'll get fat. UCD sent out the invitations to area landlords and provided space for the meeting. Lindsay Johnston of Common Ground Realtors chaired it, assisted by Penn's Off Campus Living Office Director Miki Farcas, who has organized periodic meetings for landlords who use OCL's services for many, many years. Her office doesn't have a conference room, so the meetings have always had to be held elsewhere. An agenda had been distributed in advance, and speakers talked about various topics, including: rental rates and trends in UC (Miki Farcas), crime and fire safety (Lt. McCurdy and others), the Rental Suitability Act (Marcia Nelson, City of Philadelphia, LI Dept.), UCD initiatives (Carolyn Hewson). Also, UCD's new director of Operations, Clean Safe, Dexter Bryant, was introduced. Perhaps that will be of more interest to the UC list than Lt. McCurdy's contact information. If anyone is interested, I can tell you a little more about him. Let me know. We all listened to the various speakers, asking questions and making comments as we chose, sometimes telling them something THEY didn't know! At the end, Lindsay asked if we'd like to have future meetings, and the consensus was that we would; the next one will be planned for January. Minutes from the meeting were delivered via email yesterday. Here's the section on Lt. McCurdy: Lt. John McCurdy of the Philadelphia Police Department introduced himself as a 22-year veteran of the PPD and explained the UCD sub-station co-located with UCD’s administrative offices. He distributed his business card and encouraged those present to contact him directly to report problems ([EMAIL PROTECTED], 215/387-3942), emphasizing that requests for immediate/emergency assistance should go to 911. He said that problems could be reported by phone, in writing, or by email. He distributed and discussed 15 tips to help apartment residents maintain a safe environment. He clarified that the UCD sub-station covers Powelton Village and extends west to 50th Street. The requirements for fire safety can conflict with those for security. For instance, LI does not permit deadbolts that require a key to operate because they are dangerous in case of fire. LI mandates that all rooms in which people sleep have egress through the windows, precluding the use of bars. Campus Apartments is using screens that increase security but which can be opened in the event of fire. Strollers and bicycles are often kept in hallways for security reasons, but this blocks or impedes passage in emergency situations. UCD staff offered to poll landlords to identify common issues such as bike storage to determine whether there might be vendors of products such as bike pods that could help ameliorate challenging issues. The police encourage the use of cameras for security, and rental insurance for tenants. PPD is aware of the recent upsurge in theft of architectural elements such as leaded glass from buildings and plain clothes burglary teams are deployed to address this and related concerns. Brass exterior connections are also being stolen for scrap metal. The police will perform safety audits at the request of landlords or tenants. Lt. McCurdy offered repeatedly to make himself available to help with problems that are not 911 issues. I don't think that anyone attending the meeting was confused about who he worked for or reported to. We only had questions about the territory. Landlord Bill Brown asked him if he handled problems in Powelton (he said yes), and I asked how far west he covers. He replied that he covers to 50th St. and beyond, since he works out of the 18th District at 55th Pine. So, the good news is that Lt. McCurdy is another resource we all have when we need help from the police. He didn't restrict his contact information to those present; he offered it to all
Re: Landlord meeting [was: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Melanie, Your minutes and Al's posts don't disclose whether Al or anyone else asked the Lt. why he was using a UCD card. Did anyone actually ask him or better yet, criticize him directly? Paul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: univcity@list.purple.com Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 6:32 pm Subject: Landlord meeting [was: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? In a message dated 9/28/07 4:31:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is deceitful of UCD and demeaning to the Lieutenant to make it appear that the Lieutenant is subordinate to UCD administration, rather than being the Commander of a Philadelphia Police Substation that happens to be supplied by UCD. He is responsible to the Philadelphia Police chain of command, not to Lewis Wendell or UCD. It is a deliberate blurring of authority that further creates the impression that UCD is a governmental entity in and of itself, with authority over everything in this area, including the duly sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department. I'd like to add more information on the landlord meeting that Al Krigman (but not Karen Allen) attended on Wednesday morning. I was there also. I think that perhaps Al's information may have provided a somewhat skewed version of the proceedings and unnecessarily fanned the anti-UCD flames on the list. At any rate, there's no reason not to have more than one report, right? Just before the meeting began, Al helped himself to his hosts' bagel cream cheese breakfast, and kindly offered me some advice when I picked up two bite-sized muffins for myself: If you eat those, sweetheart, you'll get fat. UCD sent out the invitations to area landlords and provided space for the meeting. Lindsay Johnston of Common Ground Realtors chaired it, assisted by Penn's Off Campus Living Office Director Miki Farcas, who has organized periodic meetings for landlords who use OCL's services for many, many years. Her office doesn't have a conference room, so the meetings have always had to be held elsewhere. An agenda had been distributed in advance, and speakers talked about various topics, including: rental rates and trends in UC (Miki Farcas), crime and fire safety (Lt. McCurdy and others), the Rental Suitability Act (Marcia Nelson, City of Philadelphia, LI Dept.), UCD initiatives (Carolyn Hewson). Also, UCD's new director of Operations, Clean Safe, Dexter Bryant, was introduced. Perhaps that will be of more interest to the UC list than Lt. McCurdy's contact information. If anyone is interested, I can tell you a little more about him. Let me know. We all listened to the various speakers, asking questions and making comments as we chose, sometimes telling them something THEY didn't know! At the end, Lindsay asked if we'd like to have future meetings, and the consensus was that we would; the next one will be planned for January. Minutes from the meeting were delivered via email yesterday. Here's the section on Lt. McCurdy: Lt. John McCurdy of the Philadelphia Police Department introduced himself as a 22-year veteran of the PPD and explained the UCD sub-station co-located with UCD’s administrative offices. He distributed his business card and encouraged those present to contact him directly to report problems ([EMAIL PROTECTED], 215/387-3942), emphasizing that requests for immediate/emergency assistance should go to 911. He said that problems could be reported by phone, in writing, or by email. He distributed and discussed 15 tips to help apartment residents maintain a safe environment. He clarified that the UCD sub-station covers Powelton Village and extends west to 50th Street. The requirements for fire safety can conflict with those for security. For instance, LI does not permit deadbolts that require a key to operate because they are dangerous in case of fire. LI mandates that all rooms in which people sleep have egress through the windows, precluding the use of bars. Campus Apartments is using screens that increase security but which can be opened in the event of fire. Strollers and bicycles are often kept in hallways for security reasons, but this blocks or impedes passage in emergency situations. UCD staff offered to poll landlords to identify common issues such as bike storage to determine whether there might be vendors of products such as bike pods that could help ameliorate challenging issues. The police encourage the use of cameras for security, and rental insurance for tenants. PPD is aware of the recent upsurge in theft of architectural elements such as leaded glass from buildings and plain clothes burglary teams are deployed to address this and related concerns. Brass exterior connections are also being stolen for scrap metal. The police will perform safety audits at the request of landlords or tenants. Lt. McCurdy
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
As you said, it is important that the lines of police authority be direct, and lead to the civil authorities, and not a private corporation. But that's the impression that business card creates. That card created the impression that a ranking Philadelphia Police Officer, a person with the power to enforce the full range of governmental police powers, was himself subordinate to a private entity that is not answerable to the public. It also created the impression that that entity was itself so powerful that it had its own police powers via the officer. With public authority, the citizens have the right to vote for those people who exercise it, to have oversight of those actions, and to have myriad controls in place to assure that actions taken are reflective of the wishes of a majority of citizens. People who have issues with the Police Department have recourse through the elected government. That is the problem with UCD: it is a private entity that has taken on governmental functions, but who is it answerable to? This past year, they wanted the power to tax, the ultimate government power. But who elected those who made the crucial decisions that governed that proposal? How were those slated to be taxed represented in ithe creation of the proposal? Which members of the public elected the UCD administration? How do we remove or replace their administration if we the public deem them to be unresponsive to our needs? They do what many think are good deeds, but what exernal controls exist to make sure that what they do are of actual benefit to the many, and what does the public do if not? RE: I really don’t see the fact that the guy has a printed business card carrying a UCD logo, and identifying him (correctly) as a Philadelphia police officer—to be anything sinister or confusing. You may say what's the big deal? It was just a business card, and UCD paid for the cards. Think of it this way: would your impression be different if the names and logos of a Wachovia or a Citizens Bank appeared on that card? Karen Allen From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:56:09 -0400 Thanks for correcting my understanding, which was incorrect. I still find the tenor of this discussion perplexing.I know why AL is making this fuss, but I find the level of your ire about this somewhat unexpected-- You said: “It is a deliberate blurring of authority that further creates the impression that UCD is a governmental entity in and of itself, with authority over everything in this area, including the duly sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department.” I don’t read it that way—I read the card as stating that he’s a Philadelphia Police Officer (if it really mattered, I would want to see a badge anyway)—and that the UCD paid for printing the card, as well as providing the office space, phone, and email addresses. So—our viewpoints differ—I do see the UCD as “helpful” rather than “controlling” or “taking over.” When it comes to police activities, I’d agree that it is pretty important that the lines of authority be direct, and lead to the civil authorities, and not a private corporation. Have you had experiences in that specific area—police activity—that you see as examples of the UCD overstepping a boundary? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLENSent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:29 PMTo: UnivCity listservSubject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? I believe that a number of members of Penn’s police force are also Philadelphia police officers Those beliefs and suspicions are incorrect. Police officers cannot work for two different police departments at the same time. Penn Police and the Philadelphia Police are two separate police departments. They have overlapping jurisdictions insofar as the Penn Police patrol area falls within the Phila. Police Dept's 18th District. Sharing the same patrol area does not mean that the two departments are one and the same. The Lieutenant in question has one job title, that of being a Lieutenant of the Philadelphia Police Department. He is an Officer employed by the City of Philadelphia. He is detailed to a Philadelphia Police substation on premises donated by the University City District. This arrangement is similar to the former Police Substation at 50th and Baltimore donated by the then-operater of the Firehouse Farmer's Market [now Dock Street] and paid for by Cedar Park Neighbors, and the current Squirrel Hill Substation operated at 46th and Chester. Although private and community entities provided the money and premises in order for the substations to operate, no one dared suggest that doing so made the Police Officers detailed to those substations the employees or subordinates of those non
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
In a message dated 9/26/2007 7:20:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: According to Google, Lieutenant John McCurdy has been a distinguished Police Officer for 22 years and a Lieutenant. Nothing to be sneered at to be sure. The point I was making was that this Philadelphia police officer was identifying himself with a standard-issue UCD business card. Fostering the notion that UCD has responsibility for the police powers of a bona fide government agency. His use of these cards, rather than City of Philadelphia identification, is poor judgement on his part -- a distinguished officer though he may be. I seriously doubt that the Police Commissioner will take this lightly. UCD's providing of these cards to him is one more step -- admittedly small, but a step nevertheless -- in that organization's attempts to create a level of authority in the neighborhood between the citizens and their duly constituted government. Al Krigman Left of Ivan Grozny ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Kimm, THANK YOU so much for your eloquent analysis. The Philadelphia Police is answerable to the PEOPLE of Philadelphia and their ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES, not to UCD. I think that it's outrageous that a Philadelphia Police Lieutenant would be reduced, symbolically, at least, to being a mere staffer at a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. Who is the Lieutenant answerable to: Lewis Wendell This illustrates the issue that has been at the core of my opposition to the NID/BID: that UCD has been trying to insert itself between the citizens of West Philadelphia and our governmental institutions, and wants to become an unelected, unaccountable quasi-government answerable only to Penn. They want to tax us. They want to control the Police Department. What's next---foreign policy??? Karen Allen Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:07:59 -0400From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?To: UnivCity@list.purple.com fumingSeveral years ago, I was involved with an effort through Philadelphia Interfaith Action (PIA) to establish community policing pilot projects in four target areas in the city, one of which included part of western University City and Southwest Philly below Kingsessing Avenue. The model had proven very successful in other cities including NYC. It combined beat cops walking a beat in order to truly know and develop relationships with the community, with a Community Policing Team of community members who would commit to be in close relationship with the officers. The Community Policing Team’s job was twofold. One, to support the beat cops by providing info, introducing them to others, and providing moral and political (small, generic, nonpartisn “p”) support for their work. Team members were expected to communicate with the officers on a very regular, ideally daily, basis (like, the cops wold stop at each Team member’s house as they made their rounds each day.) Second, the Team was supposed to hold the beat officers accountable to the community through regular Team meetings.Sounds great, huh? Not to then Commissioner Neal. Now, I, and you, dear reader, have to take all of this with a grain of salt. Neal was the most USELESS, spineless, gutless, ballless, visionless (have I covered the entire anatomy yet?), (OOPS! I forgot BRAINLESS) do-nothing, nobody, yesman-to-his-political-masters bureaucrat police commissioner that I have seen in over eighteen years of living and organizing in this city.That said, Neal freaked at the idea. The part of Al’s post that most resonated with me was his comment that “One would think that sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department, regardless of where they went in the morning to report for work, operated through the Department's highly structured and ostensible chain of command.” The analysis that we developed in our strategy meetings was that the police department is structured and organized along military lines, and our proposal to have cops in a close, accountable relationship with lowly community residents was phenomenally threatening to that hierarchical organization and structure.Not everyone in the PD opposed it. Neal’s two top deputy commissioners were supportive. One was a lamebrain, but the other (I forget their names) was one of Timoney’s colleagues in NYC. Bratton, maybe? He had worked with the NYC project and based on his experience was extremely supportive.The local effort failed for reasons other than The Commish’s opposition. The other three pilot projects eventually got off the ground, after bitter warring and only with a great deal of hostility from Neal. I don’t recall how things went elsewhere, but Logan was one of the pilot projects that got off the ground, and I remember the reports at our citywide strategy meetings – the beat cops were thrilled, the community was seeing results.I eventually left PIA over unrelated issues, and I’m not sure it exists anymore, so I guess even where the effort was launched, it may have ultimately failed for reasons other than its intrinsic merits.But, after all that – and even acknowledging the difference that a change in commissioners might make . . . . The idea of a Philly PD lieutenant with an office in the UCD and giving out cards as if he is UCD staff?? HELLO, folks! Pardon my French, but would you wake the f*** up? UCD is a wholly unaccountable, totally non-community-based, totally non-grassroots animal. And the Philly PD will house their officers there, and allow them to distribute UCD business cards (Al, you better be 101% correct about your information)? Why the *%$ is that officer not in Cedar Park Neighbors’ office, giving out CPN’s business card? Too narrow? What about the University City Community Council? I don’t know if it even still exists. And let me clarify – I share a good deal of the skepticism that Ray and Glenn and Wilma regularly express on this list
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? - Not You
In a message dated 9/27/2007 10:50:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: UCD ... They want to tax us. They want to control the Police Department. What's next---foreign policy??? When will you people rollover and accept - you are foreign to the PennWay? Perhaps Brian's earlier gem needs only a little bit of tweaking: In a message dated 9/27/2007 9:29:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: UCD ... think it's cute to push their filthy things on others. Ciao, Craig ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? - Not You
Brilliant. Finally, even though I was born in West Philly, I have become a stranger in a strange land. It helps to understand this when I am stumped by the imposed culture. Thanks Al, Karen and Kimm for casting some light on the paths not taken. Liz On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 12:38:49 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 9/27/2007 10:50:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: UCD ... They want to tax us. They want to control the Police Department. What's next---foreign policy??? When will you people rollover and accept - you are foreign to the PennWay? Perhaps Brian's earlier gem needs only a little bit of tweaking: In a message dated 9/27/2007 9:29:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: UCD ... think it's cute to push their filthy things on others. Ciao, Craig
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Kimm Tynan wrote: fuming ... And that, in a nutshell (was that a nutshell?) is why I see UCD and the NID or BID as such a threat to this community. Because UCD/the NID/theBID/ are not at all grassroots, and they supplant true grassroots efforts. yes, that's it, in a nutshell. supplanting. co-option. and while some of us have been persistently pointing that out and opposing it, others of us have been just as stubbornly allowing it, encouraging it. and that is how ucd creates divisiveness in the community. and now we have a penn-branded listserve, and now we have a ucd-branded local police. .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [aka laserbeam®] [aka ray] SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES. It is very clear on this listserve who these people are. Ray has admitted being connected to this forger. -- Tony West Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated, more believable -- Tony West __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Just out of curiosity, since I postdate UCD in West Philly, what grassroots organizations were supplanted and coopted by UCD when it got started? Andrew Quoting UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Kimm Tynan wrote: fuming ... And that, in a nutshell (was that a nutshell?) is why I see UCD and the NID or BID as such a threat to this community. Because UCD/the NID/theBID/ are not at all grassroots, and they supplant true grassroots efforts. yes, that's it, in a nutshell. supplanting. co-option. and while some of us have been persistently pointing that out and opposing it, others of us have been just as stubbornly allowing it, encouraging it. and that is how ucd creates divisiveness in the community. and now we have a penn-branded listserve, and now we have a ucd-branded local police. .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [aka laserbeam®] [aka ray] SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES. It is very clear on this listserve who these people are. Ray has admitted being connected to this forger. -- Tony West Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated, more believable -- Tony West __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
I'm a little startled at all the posters here for whom this information here seems to be new. I don't think much has changed in the way Penn's police force has worked in many years. Nothing I've read here differs from what I understood about their police force when I moved into the neighborhood about 35 years ago. Somehow, I can't read the wording on that card as some new sign of decline in democracy, but then I've always had a sunny disposition. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
The card was not for a Lieutenant of the University of Pennsylvania Police department. It was for a Lieutenant of the PHILADELPHIA Police Department. The PHILADELPHIA Police Department and its employees are not employees of Penn, the Penn Police, or of UCD. It is a governmental agency of the CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, wholly supported by and answerable to the citizens of Philadelphia and its elected representatives, and NOT to UCD. Having a UCD business card with the name of a ranking member of the PHILADELPHIA Police Department mentioned in small letters symbolically, if not actually, subjects the Lieutenant to the perception that he is nothing more than a subordinate of UCD and its administrators, and that UCD has authority in Philadelphia Police matters which supercedes that of the Lieutenant's actual employer, the citizens and elected representatives of the City of Philadelphia. Karen AllenFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:50:37 -0400 I'm a little startled at all the posters here for whom this information here seems to be new. I don't think much has changed in the way Penn's police force has worked in many years. Nothing I've read here differs from what I understood about their police force when I moved into the neighborhood about 35 years ago. Somehow, I can't read the wording on that card as some new sign of decline in democracy, but then I've always had a sunny disposition. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:50:37 -0400 I'm a little startled at all the posters here for whom this information here seems to be new. I don't think much has changed in the way Penn's police force has worked in many years. Nothing I've read here differs from what I understood about their police force when I moved into the neighborhood about 35 years ago. Somehow, I can't read the wording on that card as some new sign of decline in democracy, but then I've always had a sunny disposition. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
I believe that a number of members of Penn's police force are also Philadelphia police officers. I suspect that they are clear on the lines of authority, that card notwithstanding. Presumably the officer in question has two job titles, and chose the more impressive of the two to put on the card. I think this is a long standing arrangement, and presumably the University and the Philadelphia police department both find it to their advantage. I really don't know more than this-asking the officer in question directly would probably get more useful information. He can be reached at: [EMAIL PROTECTED], or 215 243 0555, extension 241. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KAREN ALLEN Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:58 PM To: 'University City List' Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? The card was not for a Lieutenant of the University of Pennsylvania Police department. It was for a Lieutenant of the PHILADELPHIA Police Department. The PHILADELPHIA Police Department and its employees are not employees of Penn, the Penn Police, or of UCD. It is a governmental agency of the CITY OF PHILADELPHIA, wholly supported by and answerable to the citizens of Philadelphia and its elected representatives, and NOT to UCD. Having a UCD business card with the name of a ranking member of the PHILADELPHIA Police Department mentioned in small letters symbolically, if not actually, subjects the Lieutenant to the perception that he is nothing more than a subordinate of UCD and its administrators, and that UCD has authority in Philadelphia Police matters which supercedes that of the Lieutenant's actual employer, the citizens and elected representatives of the City of Philadelphia. Karen Allen From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:50:37 -0400 I'm a little startled at all the posters here for whom this information here seems to be new. I don't think much has changed in the way Penn's police force has worked in many years. Nothing I've read here differs from what I understood about their police force when I moved into the neighborhood about 35 years ago. Somehow, I can't read the wording on that card as some new sign of decline in democracy, but then I've always had a sunny disposition. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: RE: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:50:37 -0400 I'm a little startled at all the posters here for whom this information here seems to be new. I don't think much has changed in the way Penn's police force has worked in many years. Nothing I've read here differs from what I understood about their police force when I moved into the neighborhood about 35 years ago. Somehow, I can't read the wording on that card as some new sign of decline in democracy, but then I've always had a sunny disposition. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote: lt. mccurdy has a ucd email address? and does that phone number ring at ucd's offices? yes: http://www.ucityphila.org/about/staff Lt. John McCurdy Commanding Officer, UCD / Philadelphia Police Substation, x241 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Bill Sanderson wrote: He can be reached at: [EMAIL PROTECTED], or 215 243 0555, extension 241. lt. mccurdy has a ucd email address? and does that phone number ring at ucd's offices? .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [aka laserbeam®] [aka ray] SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES. It is very clear on this listserve who these people are. Ray has admitted being connected to this forger. -- Tony West Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated, more believable -- Tony West You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
That is UCD's number. Their web site says Lt. John McCurdy, Commanding Officer, UCD / Philadelphia Police Substation, x241. That says to me that he's the Commanding Officer of UCD AND the Police Substation. Why does UCD need a Commanding Officer? The UCD Police substation number is listed as 215 243 0667 on the Problem Landlords Tenants page. Frankus Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible. On Sep 28, 2007, at 12:33 AM, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN wrote: Bill Sanderson wrote: He can be reached at: [EMAIL PROTECTED], or 215 243 0555, extension 241. lt. mccurdy has a ucd email address? and does that phone number ring at ucd's offices? .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN [aka laserbeam®] [aka ray] SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES. It is very clear on this listserve who these people are. Ray has admitted being connected to this forger. -- Tony West Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated, more believable -- Tony West You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
[UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
One would think that sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department, regardless of where they went in the morning to report for work, operated through the Department's highly structured and ostensible chain of command. I discovered this morning that this may not be the case. Or, at least, that the people at UCD and the police officer who has a desk at the UCD administrative building, don't necessarily think so. I attended a meeting at which Lieutenant John McCurdy made a short presentation, then handed out business cards so people would know how to contact him. Only, they weren't Philadelphia Police Department business cards. In fact, they weren't City of Philadelphia business cards in any form. They were (you guessed it) standard UCD business cards with lt. john mccurdy/city of philadelphia police department (all in lower case, as shown) where the name and position of a UCD employee would normally go. This is a serious, if symbolic problem. Especially given that many people in this area think UCD has already usurped too many powers that it should not have, given it's accountability only to its primary patrons. And use of this business card by a sworn City of Philadelphia police officer with extraordinary powers obfuscates the fact that the chain of command and responsibility goes right up through the ranks at 55th Pine through the Police Commissioner, City Council, and the Mayor -- without a nod to anybodyat UCD. It is totally unacceptable. Lt McCurdy is probably guilty of nothing more than extremely poor judgement. Wendell Lewis and the others who make the decisions at UCD are more likely guilty of at least trying to obfuscate their actual role in the neighborhood, and perhaps of making yet another subtle power grab. Always at your service ready for a dialog, Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident and housing provider ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Who do sworn officers of the Penn Police report to? You know those people who can give tickets and make arrests around UC? Jim Cummings On 9/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One would think that sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department, regardless of where they went in the morning to report for work, operated through the Department's highly structured and ostensible chain of command. I discovered this morning that this may not be the case. Or, at least, that the people at UCD and the police officer who has a desk at the UCD administrative building, don't necessarily think so. I attended a meeting at which Lieutenant John McCurdy made a short presentation, then handed out business cards so people would know how to contact him. Only, they weren't Philadelphia Police Department business cards. In fact, they weren't City of Philadelphia business cards in any form. They were (you guessed it) standard UCD business cards with lt. john mccurdy/city of philadelphia police department (all in lower case, as shown) where the name and position of a UCD employee would normally go. This is a serious, if symbolic problem. Especially given that many people in this area think UCD has already usurped too many powers that it should not have, given it's accountability only to its primary patrons. And use of this business card by a sworn City of Philadelphia police officer with extraordinary powers obfuscates the fact that the chain of command and responsibility goes right up through the ranks at 55th Pine through the Police Commissioner, City Council, and the Mayor -- without a nod to anybodyat UCD. It is totally unacceptable. Lt McCurdy is probably guilty of nothing more than extremely poor judgement. Wendell Lewis and the others who make the decisions at UCD are more likely guilty of at least trying to obfuscate their actual role in the neighborhood, and perhaps of making yet another subtle power grab. Always at your service ready for a dialog, Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident and housing provider See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. -- Jim Cummings You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
Right and they are responsible to the Trustees of the University of Pennsylvania, I suppose. Does that scare anyone? Jim On 9/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my understanding that the Penn Police Department is a real police department independent of the Philadelphia Police Dept.. So are Temple's and the Housing. Authority police. If I remember right, Penn's dept is the 5th largest in the state. Andy - Andrew Frishkoff Neighborhood Economic Development Director Philadelphia Neighborhood Transformation Initiative 1515 Arch Street, 12th Floor Philadelphia, PA 19102 215-683-2026 - phone 215-683-2015 - fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jim Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09/26/2007 01:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to? Who do sworn officers of the Penn Police report to? You know those people who can give tickets and make arrests around UC? Jim Cummings On 9/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One would think that sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department, regardless of where they went in the morning to report for work, operated through the Department's highly structured and ostensible chain of command. I discovered this morning that this may not be the case. Or, at least, that the people at UCD and the police officer who has a desk at the UCD administrative building, don't necessarily think so. I attended a meeting at which Lieutenant John McCurdy made a short presentation, then handed out business cards so people would know how to contact him. Only, they weren't Philadelphia Police Department business cards. In fact, they weren't City of Philadelphia business cards in any form. They were (you guessed it) standard UCD business cards with lt. john mccurdy/city of philadelphia police department (all in lower case, as shown) where the name and position of a UCD employee would normally go. This is a serious, if symbolic problem. Especially given that many people in this area think UCD has already usurped too many powers that it should not have, given it's accountability only to its primary patrons. And use of this business card by a sworn City of Philadelphia police officer with extraordinary powers obfuscates the fact that the chain of command and responsibility goes right up through the ranks at 55th Pine through the Police Commissioner, City Council, and the Mayor -- without a nod to anybodyat UCD. It is totally unacceptable. Lt McCurdy is probably guilty of nothing more than extremely poor judgement. Wendell Lewis and the others who make the decisions at UCD are more likely guilty of at least trying to obfuscate their actual role in the neighborhood, and perhaps of making yet another subtle power grab. Always at your service ready for a dialog, Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident and housing provider See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. -- Jim Cummings You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. -- Jim Cummings You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
At FIRST, I thought you were mentioning Officer Gerry McLaughlin. According to Google, Lieutenant John McCurdy has been a distinguished Police Officer for 22 years and a Lieutenant. Nothing to be sneered at to be sure. The UCD Quest Newsletter was the main source for this information when I consulted Google. SO??? On 9/26/07 1:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One would think that sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department, regardless of where they went in the morning to report for work, operated through the Department's highly structured and ostensible chain of command. I discovered this morning that this may not be the case. Or, at least, that the people at UCD and the police officer who has a desk at the UCD administrative building, don't necessarily think so. I attended a meeting at which Lieutenant John McCurdy made a short presentation, then handed out business cards so people would know how to contact him. Only, they weren't Philadelphia Police Department business cards. In fact, they weren't City of Philadelphia business cards in any form. They were (you guessed it) standard UCD business cards with lt. john mccurdy/city of philadelphia police department (all in lower case, as shown) where the name and position of a UCD employee would normally go. This is a serious, if symbolic problem. Especially given that many people in this area think UCD has already usurped too many powers that it should not have, given it's accountability only to its primary patrons. And use of this business card by a sworn City of Philadelphia police officer with extraordinary powers obfuscates the fact that the chain of command and responsibility goes right up through the ranks at 55th Pine through the Police Commissioner, City Council, and the Mayor -- without a nod to anybodyat UCD. It is totally unacceptable. Lt McCurdy is probably guilty of nothing more than extremely poor judgement. Wendell Lewis and the others who make the decisions at UCD are more likely guilty of at least trying to obfuscate their actual role in the neighborhood, and perhaps of making yet another subtle power grab. Always at your service ready for a dialog, Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident and housing provider See what's new at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP0030001170 and Make AOL Your Homepage http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP0030001169 .
Re: [UC] Who do sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police report to?
fuming Several years ago, I was involved with an effort through Philadelphia Interfaith Action (PIA) to establish community policing pilot projects in four target areas in the city, one of which included part of western University City and Southwest Philly below Kingsessing Avenue. The model had proven very successful in other cities including NYC. It combined beat cops walking a beat in order to truly know and develop relationships with the community, with a Community Policing Team of community members who would commit to be in close relationship with the officers. The Community Policing Team¹s job was twofold. One, to support the beat cops by providing info, introducing them to others, and providing moral and political (small, generic, nonpartisn ³p²) support for their work. Team members were expected to communicate with the officers on a very regular, ideally daily, basis (like, the cops wold stop at each Team member¹s house as they made their rounds each day.) Second, the Team was supposed to hold the beat officers accountable to the community through regular Team meetings. Sounds great, huh? Not to then Commissioner Neal. Now, I, and you, dear reader, have to take all of this with a grain of salt. Neal was the most USELESS, spineless, gutless, ballless, visionless (have I covered the entire anatomy yet?), (OOPS! I forgot BRAINLESS) do-nothing, nobody, yesman-to-his-political-masters bureaucrat police commissioner that I have seen in over eighteen years of living and organizing in this city. That said, Neal freaked at the idea. The part of Al¹s post that most resonated with me was his comment that ³One would think that sworn officers of the Philadelphia Police Department, regardless of where they went in the morning to report for work, operated through the Department's highly structured and ostensible chain of command.² The analysis that we developed in our strategy meetings was that the police department is structured and organized along military lines, and our proposal to have cops in a close, accountable relationship with lowly community residents was phenomenally threatening to that hierarchical organization and structure. Not everyone in the PD opposed it. Neal¹s two top deputy commissioners were supportive. One was a lamebrain, but the other (I forget their names) was one of Timoney¹s colleagues in NYC. Bratton, maybe? He had worked with the NYC project and based on his experience was extremely supportive. The local effort failed for reasons other than The Commish¹s opposition. The other three pilot projects eventually got off the ground, after bitter warring and only with a great deal of hostility from Neal. I don¹t recall how things went elsewhere, but Logan was one of the pilot projects that got off the ground, and I remember the reports at our citywide strategy meetings the beat cops were thrilled, the community was seeing results. I eventually left PIA over unrelated issues, and I¹m not sure it exists anymore, so I guess even where the effort was launched, it may have ultimately failed for reasons other than its intrinsic merits. But, after all that and even acknowledging the difference that a change in commissioners might make . . . . The idea of a Philly PD lieutenant with an office in the UCD and giving out cards as if he is UCD staff?? HELLO, folks! Pardon my French, but would you wake the f*** up? UCD is a wholly unaccountable, totally non-community-based, totally non-grassroots animal. And the Philly PD will house their officers there, and allow them to distribute UCD business cards (Al, you better be 101% correct about your information)? Why the *%$ is that officer not in Cedar Park Neighbors¹ office, giving out CPN¹s business card? Too narrow? What about the University City Community Council? I don¹t know if it even still exists. And let me clarify I share a good deal of the skepticism that Ray and Glenn and Wilma regularly express on this list of the local (and nonlocal) civic institutions. But, hell, I¹ll prefer them anyday to the Penn-manufactured, corporate-beholden animal that is UCD. If they can control the police, then they are not the benign street sweepers/garbage collectors/light installers that hey are characterized as. In summary - my anger is twofold. One is that the Philly PD has entered into a relationship with a wholly nongrassroots organization like the UCD when it fought tooth-and-nail a similar relationship with a grassroots community organization. Some of that can be attributed to a change in leadership. But a lot of it is, I think, revealing a relationship with UCD is less threatening than a relationship with community people is. Second, this is a perfect example of the ³astroturfing² that folks have complained about. The UCDs and Manayunk Development Corporations and countless CDCs the business and landlord and corporate interested entities supplant the true, community driven, grassroots, representative
