Re: Revcon Wifi

[Dan Shafer]

We had no choice. T-1 or everyone for him/herself.

Dan

On May 21, 2005, at 10:40 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

It cost a good deal of money to outfit the entire conference with  
a  T-1 line and WiFi access but we didn't see how we could expect  
a  bunch of Revolutionaries to do anything other than. . .er,   
revolt. . .if we didnt' supply it.




Yes, connectivity can be critical, but I don't know anyone who  
truly needs T1.


Why not just go with the far more ubiquitous (and much less  
expensive) DSL?


I doubt anyone has an antenna that can make use of T1 anyway. :)

--
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Could this list be a forum/bulletin board?

[Dan Shafer]

Dennis

That's how I've kept my sanity (well, at least as much of it as I  
*have* kept) on this list as well.



On May 21, 2005, at 8:01 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:

I finally figured out how to manage this barrage of emails in my in- 
box from this list.  I just have my mail.app program send them all  
to a "RevList" mail box that I read with threads on.  Now I can  
find the other emails I get in my in-box.


I don't know why I did not think of this before.  I guess it is  
because this is the first list I have signed up for.


Dennis

On May 21, 2005, at 8:45 AM, Marty Billingsley wrote:



Rob Beynon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:




Another question that has probably been asked before -

I wonder why this resource (use revolution) has not been presented
using one of the many forum/bb software that seems to be everywhere
else. With inbuilt search etc, it would be a lot better to use.




There is a searchable archive at
<http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/>



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Re: Revcon Wifi

[Dan Shafer]

Judy.

If you'll have a car with you, the most pet-friendly hotel in the  
area is, as I understand it, the Hyatt Regency. They recently hosted  
all the owners of some large breed of dog that had a show here in  
Monterey. But it's not very close to the conference center; you'd  
definitely want to drive. (OTOH, it's very close to my house so we  
could possibly arrange a ride.)


Hotels are probably filling up really fast now and some are probably  
booked. The Travelodge on Munras (not the one on Fremont; you dn't  
want to stay there) is affordable but I don't know if they take pets  
or not.


Let me know if I can help any other way.

And you lurkers who are planning on being in Monterey need to know  
two things:


(1) If you've registered but don't have accommodations yet, you'd be  
well advised to move quickly.
(2) If you haven't registered yet, we have very few spots left for  
the give-away of the 128K thumb drives.



On May 20, 2005, at 11:47 PM, Judy Perry wrote:


Oh dear!  That reminds me to check into accomodations.

Does 'the team' have any recommendations?  Especially any places that
accomodate pets?

Thanks,

Judy


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Re: Update on my progress

[Dan Shafer]

Can we start a pool on how long the longest-lasting coder will stay  
disconnected?

On May 20, 2005, at 5:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
I've been tempted to throw a SoCal Rev Campout in which we try the  
most daring of survival stunts:  to see if a group of Rev  
developers can spend the night in the desert without Rev.


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Small Note About CGI on OS X

[Dan Shafer]

I'm not 100% sure when this happened, but somewhere along the line  
(or so my Unix sysadmin friend tells me), Apple changed the  
configuration on Apache on OS X so that HTML files stored in the cgi- 
bin directory (aka "CGI Executables") will not be served  but will  
instead generate an "internal server error."

Now, the idea of storing non-executable files in the cgi-bin  
directory isn't smart to begin with, but I had a client who had done  
this early on and things worked OK until he upgraded to Tiger. (He'd  
skipped one or two upgrades in between, which is why we're not sure  
exactly when this happened.)

Anyway, don't do that. HTML and other non-executable files belong in  
the main (root) or document root directory on the Web server, not in  
the cgi-bin directory.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled and far more interesting  
programming.


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Re: XML-RPC And The Famous Blogger API 1.0 (Re: XML-RPC How To Use?)

[Dan Shafer]

Andre.
On May 20, 2005, at 6:37 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
is this email too big?
Nope. It was so informative I'd have read it if it were twice as long!
Looking forward to seeing you in Monterey again next month, you  
Brazil Nut.


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Re: [OT] Is there a relationship between Xtalk languages andsmalltalk?

[Dan Shafer]

Heard back from Dan Winkler. He has looked at Rev and found it quite  
positive.

He also reminded me of the company I couldn't think of before. It's  
General Magic. A number of the HyperHeads were part of that aborted,  
ahead-of-its-time effort. He says the Danger HipTop "is a great  
reallization of what Gewneral Magic was starting to do many years  
ago." Have to check that out.

Dan
On May 19, 2005, at 9:45 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
Richard Gaskin wrote:

One last bit of trivia:
Today the world's most popular multimedia authoring system is  
Flash, and while we know it as a Macromedia product it was  
actually an acquisition.
Who originally produced it?
FutureSplash, a company owned by Charlie Jackson.

And in fact, FutureSplash was called 'SmartSketch' even earlier.  
The same programmers who wrote SuperPaint, which was sold to Aldus  
along with SuperCard, Super3D and Digital Darkroom, (and the rest  
of Charlie's Silicon Beach companies products) also wrote  
FutureSplash.


PS: in the early '90s a magazine premiered called "New Media" --  
anyone here have the first two issues?

Perhpas. We were awarded the New Media Award of Excellence that  
very first year for our SuperCard project "MarsBook", a 3d  
walkthrough of a Mars Habitat we designed for NASA and Johnson  
Space Center.

Interesting story, I was asked to come to San Jose to pick-up the  
award and told to wear a tuxedo. Of course, no self-respecting  
Apple type would be caught dead in a tux, but I did go there. It  
was amazing, like the Oscars for Multimedia. They had TV cameras,  
red carpet, teleprompters, and around 4000 people -- and me the  
only one in jeans;-).

Someone was going to a lot of trouble to make sure 'multimedia' was  
the next big thing. I think there were only 8 Awards of Excellence  
given, and we were proud to have gotten one of the first. My good  
friend Dan Backus, wrote 'ADAM' a medical dissection multimedia  
project in SuperCard, and he won the covetted 'Best of Show.' For a  
number of years after, the Invision Awards were among the most  
elite awards in Multimedia-- though it never exceeded the hype and  
production of that first year.

-Chipp
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Re: [OT] Is there a relationship between Xtalk languages andsmalltalk?

[Dan Shafer]

Richard.
What a great trip down memory lane.
Thanks.
Dan
On May 19, 2005, at 8:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
What became of the creators of Hypercard? Were they involved in  
any of
Hypercard's descendants?

Not directly, but there was a moment of widsom in which Silicon  
Beach's Charlie Jackson (SB produced SuperCard) proposed to Apple's  
Jean Louis Gassee that they establish a HyperTalk standard to guide  
the various dialects that were cropping up.  Gassee agreed in  
principle, and the effort was even discussed publicly for a brief  
while, but unfortunately other elements within Apple shut the  
effort down before any working meetings took place.

Some trivia on the mysterious coincidences with HyperCard and  
SuperCard:

HyperCard was written by Bill Atkinson
SuperCard was written by Bill Appleton
The first HyperCard book was written by Danny Goodman
The first SuperCard book was written by Danny Gookin
Today I'm told Bill and Bill live a few blocks from one another in  
Santa Cruz.

And more trivia:
Atkinson's original vision for HyperCard didn't include a scripting  
language, an idea that was suggested by Dan Winkler during the  
development cycle.

During that time another product came on the market, which made it  
the first scriptable multimedia authoring tool for Mac.

What was it?
World Builder, written by Bill Appleton.
Though originally designed as a game authoring system, its  
scriptable control over text, images, sound, and screen-to-screen  
navigation in an easy-to-use very-high-level language made it  
popular among educators for building courseware.

Of course once Apple released HyperCard for free bundled with every  
Mac, the world of World Builder became a forgotten legacy

One last bit of trivia:
Today the world's most popular multimedia authoring system is  
Flash, and while we know it as a Macromedia product it was actually  
an acquisition.

Who originally produced it?
FutureSplash, a company owned by Charlie Jackson.

PS: in the early '90s a magazine premiered called "New Media" --  
anyone here have the first two issues?

--
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: [OT] Is there a relationship between Xtalk languages and smalltalk?

[Dan Shafer]

On May 19, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
Hi Jonathan,
Since your questions are related to HyperCard, I cross-post my  
reply to the HyperCard list.

As to your question about SmallTalk, there certainly is a  
relationship, which isn't revealed by the nature of the languages.  
Ted Kaehler was on the original HyperCard team and also  
participated in the original Squeak team at Alan Kay's Viewpoints  
Research Institute (see: <http://www.squeak.org/us/ted/> and  
<http://squeakland.org/community/biography/kaehler.html>). I have  
also read that SmallTalk was originally invented at Apple, which  
makes the relationship even closer. Despite personal and other  
connections, it cannot be said that SmallTalk is based on or  
strongly influenced by HyperTalk.

Smalltalk was definitely NOT invented at Apple. Smalltalk was  
developed by Xerox PARC. The team was headed by Adele Goldberg. Alan  
Kay was part of that team and later showed up as a star at Apple.  
Apple DID work heavily on Smalltalk for a few years, including  
forking a version of the standard ST-80 project for quite some time.  
But ultimately it never did anything with the language in anything  
resembling an official way.

Alan continues to be active in Smalltalk through the Squeak project  
you mention. Dan Winkler was also active in Squeak for a while but  
seems to have dropped out of that effort.

The above is directly related to you other question, about the  
creators of HyperCard. I have been able to find information about  
most of the original team that worked on HyperCard 1.0/1.0.1,  
except for Adam Paal, Marge Boots, Mary Sinclitico, Bob Goodenough,  
and Dan Winkler. I am really surprised that I can't find info on  
Dan Winkler. If anyone can help me with this, I'll be able to  
publish a (very) brief biography of the entire original team. If  
you have any facts or rumours about one of these persons, please  
write me, preferably off-list.

I sent a quick note to Dan Winkler. He is living outside Boston, and  
says he is mostly resting, reading and playing but doing the  
occasional IT consulting gig.


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Re: [OT] Is there a relationship between Xtalk languages andsmalltalk?

[Dan Shafer]

Bill Atkinson, last I heard, was no longer doing tech stuff at all  
but was focused on his rather considerable skills as a photographer.  
(He's really good. Check out http://www.billatkinson.com)

Dan Winkler did some additional technology work for a few years. He  
was involved in a project whose name I seem to have forgotten that  
involved creating a very cool hand-held device that had AT&T backing.  
Used a very clever graphical UI but the plug got pulled before the  
product was delivered.

Dan's in Massachussetts these days but I'm not sure what he's doing.  
I emailed him to find out. I see he has a blog at Harvard Law but his  
(and my) old colleague/friend Dave Winer is the moving force on that  
front so the connection may be nothing more than a cool place to blog.

(BTW, Dan co-authored several HyperTalk books with our own esteemed  
Jeanne DeVoto back in the day.)

On May 19, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
Thanks Dan...
Another historical question for you...
What became of the creators of Hypercard? Were they involved in any of
Hypercard's descendants?

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Re: [OT] Is there a relationship between Xtalk languages and smalltalk?

[Dan Shafer]

As one of the Gray-Hairs around these parts -- and someone who has  
authored books on both xTalks and Smalltalk as well as coding far too  
many lines of both to be considered still sane -- I thought I'd take  
a stab at your question.

There is virtually no real connection between the two languages other  
than the fact that when Bill Atkinson and Dan Winkler were naming the  
scripting language in HyperCard, I'm sure they thought that the  
suffix "-talk" conveyed better what they were trying to do with this  
new artifact of computing than anything else they could come up with.  
(I think I remember Dan even telling me something like that once, but  
it's been eons in computer terms.)

There were, as I recall, a number of language dialects that ended  
with the same suffix. I seem to recall that SuperCard's language was  
called SuperTalk, for example. I'm sure there were others that escape  
my aging and over-crowded brain at the moment.

Thanks for affording me a brief trip down Memory Lane.
On May 19, 2005, at 6:32 AM, Lynch, Jonathan wrote:
Reading about smalltalk and hypertalk on the web, it seems like  
there is
a connection, but I am not clear what the connection might be.

Was hypercard inspired by smalltalk, or something like that?

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Re: ANN: SimpleStats

[Dan Shafer]

Probably me, but I can't get most of the buttons to do anything. The  
Calc button works but the graph button and the rest just sit there  
and stare at me.

Dan
On May 18, 2005, at 2:16 PM, MisterX wrote:
In the serie of SimpleStacks to demonstrate simple concepts Made in  
RunRev,
here's a TAOO enhanced GUI sporting the SimpleStats stack i  
mentioned a few
hours ago. Great to know if your statistics are worth the numbers...

 &d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=84>

or [if it works... - dont rant, just click on the link and the  
download will
start...]

go url "http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads

&d_op=getit&lid=84"

For those 2 pre-announcement downloads, the GUI is now much much  
improved...

This stack is totally opensource - and free but may be restricted  
in use -
see about field (the one with the nice zoom animation! ;)

The GUI theme and stack resizing is made in TAOO.
And Metacard 2.5.x compatible too!
As usual, votes, comments and donations always welcome to keep the  
effort
and novelty coming to you for free!

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com

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Re: no longer OT: Apple V Apple. Legal lunacy?

[Dan Shafer]

As a law school grad who declined to become a practicing attorney,  
let me add one other note.

A contract is only a piece of paper. Right up until someone thinks  
the other person has breached it.

Then it is a nightmare.
Draft agreements with clear divorce clauses. The document is really  
most valuable if and when things go south.

Dan
On May 18, 2005, at 11:14 AM, Alan Golub wrote:
Thanks for the positive remarks, Kurt. And thanks to Chipp for his  
take on
things, with which I largely concur -- by all means, if they are  
able, the
parties to a contract should work out the major terms on their own  
BEFORE
getting a lawyer involved. They may even be able to draft the entire
contract themselves -- you don't need a lawyer to form a binding and
enforceable contract.

A word of warning, however -- if you (a) don't have much experience  
with
negotiating contracts, (b) have never been a party to a contract  
before,
and/or (c) are uncomfortable with representing yourself in what can  
be a
fairly confrontational and stressful process, it may be best to  
have an
attorney on your side as you nail down the major terms of the  
contract. Even
if the parties deal directly with each other during this phase,  
while the
attorney sits on the sidelines to advise as necessary, there can be  
real
value, particularly to the uninitiated, in having in your corner  
someone
more experienced in negotiating and drafting these things.

This has been a very interesting discussion, and I'm so glad that  
others
have found it worthwhile. We don't often explore the business/legal  
side of
things on this list, but some attention to it now and then is no  
doubt a
good thing. Thanks to Jeff Reynolds for teeing this up for us!

Alan S. Golub, Esq.
On 5/18/05 1:46 PM, "Kurt Kaufman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Thanks to Alan and Chipp for their perspectives on business and law.
Anyone who draws up business arrangements (in the software field or
otherwise) would be well advised to read their posts to this list:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-May/057273.html
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-May/057342.html
If only more business and personal interactions were handled in this
manner, we'd waste a whole lot less resources, money and time
Kurt
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Re: Do Rev CGI Suffer Performance HIts?

[Dan Shafer]

OK, having spent some time in the archives, I think I've answered my  
own question.

It *is* necessary for a Rev CGI script to load separately for each  
instance/call. That's not terribly efficient but it's like all other  
CGI methods except for mod_perl and probably some other even more  
obscure methods.

I ran across a couple of references to a comment perhaps made by  
Scott Raney that load time is pretty instantaneous and therefore  
shouldn't be a performance problem (though it might clearly become a  
*resource* problem on the server).

So I think I'll experiment with this a bit, using Python and Rev for  
a couple of simple but heavily used CGI and see what results I get.

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Re: altSQLite versus Valentina for Rev

[Dan Shafer]

Ken...
Well stated. It's something most programmers know but forget and of  
which we need to be reminded from time to time.

They're all just tools, not religious experiences.
On May 16, 2005, at 9:08 AM, Ken Ray wrote:
Once again, it's the "right tool for the job"

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Do Rev CGI Suffer Performance HIts?

[Dan Shafer]

On another thread, jbv (JB) wrote about using Rev as a CGI engine on  
Linux as a matter of regular course.

I'm curious. I've been laying out a design for an INternet-based app  
and figuring I'd have to use Python (which is OK because I love it  
but in some ways it may be overkill for this project) because of my  
understanding that a Rev CGI can't handle even modest volumes of  
traffic. This is apparently because a separate instance of the CGI is  
launched for each HTTP request received.

True or myth? Anyone have any experience with moderately high  
transaction rates using Rev CGI?


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Re: Be Cautious About MySQL Licensing (was Re: Database suggestions?)

[Dan Shafer]

Ruslan.
Very interesting results you report in the portion of this email that  
I omitted for space reasons.

I'll be watching closely what you have to report on your comparative  
pages when they are done. Speed is not always crucial, but processes  
that take longer than a minute will *always* be viewed by users as  
bad news!

On May 15, 2005, at 3:36 PM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
Not really, Ruslan. If I have an app that I'm distributing on CD/DVD
or downloading but which is intended for single-user deployment, I
would use altSQLite because it's fast, free, and (thanks to Altuit)
trivial to incorporate into my Rev apps.
:-) I think this is little a myth that SQL Lite is fast.

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Re: Be Cautious About MySQL Licensing (was Re: Databasesuggestions?)

[Dan Shafer]

Lynn...
You are, of course, correct. I misspoke when I characterized  
altSQLite as free. My mistake.

On May 15, 2005, at 5:09 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:
Altuit's plugin, unless Im missing something, is _not free_.

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Re: Be Cautious About MySQL Licensing (was Re: Database suggestions?)

[Dan Shafer]

Jan.
A compelling point, methinks.
Since you can use PostgreSQL for desktop, LAN and Internet-deployed  
apps, adopting it from the outset eliminates a lot of hassle, I'd  
guess. (I've never actually coded a PostgreSQL app but I may change  
that in the near future.) It seems like the only thing you sacrifice  
with PostgreSQL by most accounts is performance, but it's not clear  
to me how much performance is sacrificed and under what specific  
circumstances or loads.

On May 15, 2005, at 1:16 AM, Jan Schenkel wrote:
Personally, I like PostgreSQL because it offers the
high-end features that I seek, and is TRUELY free.

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Re: Be Cautious About MySQL Licensing (was Re: Database suggestions?)

[Dan Shafer]

Not really, Ruslan. If I have an app that I'm distributing on CD/DVD  
or downloading but which is intended for single-user deployment, I  
would use altSQLite because it's fast, free, and (thanks to Altuit)  
trivial to incorporate into my Rev apps.

Where MySQL becomes an issue is when the app is multi-user by nature.  
If the app can be deployed over the Internet, then MySQL is a viable  
option. If it has to be deployed on a LAN, it's just not.

On May 15, 2005, at 12:46 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
On 5/15/05 10:41 AM, "Stephen Barncard"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Hi Stephen,

AGAIN, gentlemen, I say, why bother with running (and worrying about)
your own server and licensing when there are good ISP's out there
that INCLUDE MYSQL along with one's account, like PHP, python, perl,
shell, etc.
Because we talk here about Application Developers,
Which develop Applications such as Games, Accounting, Emailers, ..
And distribute them on CD/DVD to thousands of users.
--
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Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc
Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com
[I feel the need: the need for speed]
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Re: Be Cautious About MySQL Licensing (was Re: Database suggestions?)

[Dan Shafer]

Stephen
Where I have the choice of defining an app to run over the Net,  
you're right and I use it all the time in those situations.

But sometimes clients and/or their customers dictate that they do not  
want to have to be connected to the Net to conduct their business.  
They may even have an active desire NOT to have their app be on the  
Net. In those cases, you as a developer have no choice but to find a  
cost-effective solution. I've faced that issue with two different  
significant development projects in the past 12 months.

On May 15, 2005, at 12:41 AM, Stephen Barncard wrote:
It feels like it's almost free this way! So what's the problem?

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Re: OT correction: deek & harp ON the kimmies & brightlighters in Monterey

[Dan Shafer]

I'll have to check with local law enforcement and make sure these  
grumbly-sounding activities are legal.


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Be Cautious About MySQL Licensing (was Re: Database suggestions?)

[Dan Shafer]

In this discussion, it's important not to lose sight of Chipp  
Walters' early comment that MySQL is NOT free for commercial use. I  
was always under the impression that it was but when Chipp raised  
that with me about 18 months ago and I went to the MySQL folks to  
investigate, I found a dismayingly confusing plethora of license  
terms and warnings that frankly scared me away from using the product.

If you are doing commercial deployment of Rev relational database  
apps, and you don't want to or can't factor in the MySQL pricing, you  
need to confine your choices to PostgreSQL, Valentina, and, if you're  
writing single-user apps, altSQLite.

FWIW, MySQL (http://www.mysql.com) has cleaned up its message a lot  
in the last year or so. They are now much clearer about when you need  
their commercial license (at $595/server/yr. for basic support and  
$1495/server/yr. for extended support) and when the free GPL license  
will suffice.

But as I understand it (and I could be wrong about this but two  
attorneys have told me I'm right), if I, e.g., deploy an application  
designed to run on a user's desktop with a locally connected database  
or on a user's LAN where, again, the database resides on their server  
rather than mine, then I owe MySQL AB the server fee for each  
instance. That means (again, I'm hedging my bet here by saying I'm  
not sure this is correct, but I believe it is) I would pay $595/ 
client/year because each would have to have a local instance of the  
MySQL server running.

When I asked the MySQL AB folks if I'd have to pay this fee per  
client in cases where the client already has a MySQL instance running  
(e.g., it comes free with OS X as I recall), they said, "Well, it  
depends on the nature of the license of the providing party (in this  
case, Apple), but to be safe, you'd probably want to pay for it  
separately." They can't (or won't) tell me whether Apple's license  
covers me or not and Apple has not responded to my queries, either.

At the end of the day, and in keeping with my desire to stay out of  
courtrooms, I decided not to use MySQL in any situation where there  
might ever be a doubt about the licensing issue. That essentially  
means I don't use MySQL unless I'm designing an app I'm willing to  
distribute free as open source.

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Re: Database suggestions?

[Dan Shafer]

Ken
Pardon me for jumping in here.
WHile I think it has been generally true that PostgreSQL is actually  
a bit faster than MySQL in apples-to-apples comparisons, the fact is  
that so much of the speed of a relational database is a function of  
how well designed the tables are, how many complex joins are involved  
in the application built on them, and other stuff that isn't really  
native to the DB engines, I'm not sure a fair comparison that is  
universally true can be made.

FWIW, one of the best and fairly objective comparisons I've seen is at:
http://www-css.fnal.gov/dsg/external/freeware/pgsql-vs-mysql.html
On May 13, 2005, at 10:51 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
On 5/14/05 12:28 AM, "Chipp Walters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hi Ken,
Here's a couple of things you may want to consider.
Thanks, Chipp... yes, we'll have multiple concurrent users so I  
guess it's
MySQL or PostgreSQL. My understanding is that in general, MySQL has  
better
performance than PostgreSQL, does that jibe with your take on the  
two DBs?

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: paragraph-level formatting

[Dan Shafer]

I take it you mean full-justify or justify-left-and-right? Nope. No  
can do.

On May 13, 2005, at 9:41 AM, Emilio Gagliardi wrote:
I was reading an old thread and it was mentioned that there is a  
way to justify text, however, I cannot locate a way to justify text  
- is it possible in version 2.5?  I can only ever find [left,  
center,right].

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Re: [OT] More on Tiger...

[Dan Shafer]

I'm with those who suggest in comments to your cited article that the  
fault lies with vendors who create products that claim compatibility  
with OS X and then don't apparently bother to update their products  
despite six months' lead time on pre-release versions of the OS.

As for secrecy, nobody beats M$ in that respect.
On May 10, 2005, at 11:37 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1813718,00.asp? 
kc=ewnws050905dtx1k599

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Re: TAOO's action list

[Dan Shafer]

Impressive list, Xavier.
Is it your intent that TAOO language be a strict superset of  
Transcript, with no duplicated functionality, or are you going to  
reproduce all or most of Transcript's commands. It was hard to tell  
because some of the handlers in the list sound a bit like existing  
commands but perhaps are designed to behave somewhat differently  
(e.g., operate on formal objects).

On May 9, 2005, at 9:17 PM, MisterX wrote:
Part of writing your own language, system or framework consists of  
making a
wide number of objects and verbs available for application use.

I just posted an auto-generated list from taoo' libraries. It's the  
second
list I publish (since the HyperCard XOS).

<http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=15>
There's over a 1000 handlers although a few are just abbreviated or
alternative commands. Some verbs are irrelevant, and there's a few
breakdowns possible (per verb, per object, per library or context,
alphabetically, etc) to be reformated nicely in the future in the TAOO
Documentation currently under scripting. Note also the new PHP array
commands popping in (python will be next, the Moft NT library is not
included in this list).
I just wanted to show you the breath of the environment. Im sure  
there's a
cool function for everyone in it. This list doesnt' have the 1000+  
list of
calls and handlers in the HyperScriptLibrary.

Making it all available under one roof without any scripting  
required is
what I aim to do... So far it is coming very smoothly and faster  
every day!

Comments welcome in the forums! Requests and suggestions too  
naturally ;)

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo
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Re: Larger Ask Dialog

[Dan Shafer]

I assume you mean more text in the user's reply rather than in the  
prompt.

No easy way that I know of.
On May 7, 2005, at 4:26 PM, Roger Guay wrote:
I know that I could hack one, but is there an easy way to increase  
the size of the text field in the standard Ask Dialog to allow for  
more text to be displayed?

TIA, Roger
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Re: Here is the ChatRev Transcript

[Dan Shafer]

Thanks for providing this, and for hosting the chat and for the great  
chat software, Bjoernke!

Tell me, is the chat client hard-wired to your server running a  
(Rev?) CGI or could it be provided elsewhere?

On May 7, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote:
Dear Revolutionaries
Kevin was unusual open about the future of runrev. We talked about  
object orientation and new graphic capabilities, educational plans  
and XSLT.  Of course also about other stuff too. Just check the  
transcript out!

Copy the following line into your message box and hit enter:
go stack url "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/transscript.rev";
best wishes
Bjoernke
--
official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.cjb.net
Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";
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Re: ANN/RFD Python in Rev - no probs!

[Dan Shafer]

xav.
Count me in, in spades. This would be my ideal coding universe.
Need to check out PythonCard (http://www.pythoncard.org), an Open  
Source project trying to approach this from the other side (Python  
scripting in an HC/Rev kind of IDE world) for possible cross- 
pollination. Alex Tweedly and I have both been involved in that  
project (he more than I, particularly of late).

Glad to see someone spearheading this. I'll do whatever I can.
Python scripts running quasi-native in Rev. yum

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Re: The Manual...

[Dan Shafer]

I agree my book isn't a manual. It wasn't intended as a reference.  
Never will be.

Revolution needs a printed, focused, condensed reference. But right  
now I don't see that it's a priority for the company's scarce resources.

On May 5, 2005, at 1:47 PM, John Ridge wrote:
Don Shafer's book is not a manual. OK - I'm talking only about Vol  
1, but
even when the other two are available it still won't be a Handbook  
as Danny
Goodman's was for Hypercard. I've bought Vol 1, and I've found it  
useful,
Don. But the omissions become more and more obvious as I develop a
familiarity with Transcript, and the IDE.

I really need a manual that defines the language, and gives hints,  
tips etc.
The online documentation is good, in its class. But it's no  
substitute for a
paper version. There surely must be one somewhere...

Help!
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Re: custom properties

[Dan Shafer]

Paul
You can order my chapter on properties from the RunRev store for $5.  
I cover custom properties in some depth.

On May 5, 2005, at 7:05 AM, Paul Salyers wrote:
Dear Rev programmers,
Can some 1 make a simple stack that will defind a variable
and place it on a custom properties so other Rev programs can use  
this custom properties.

I did a search and found nothing that I could understand.
Thank you,
Paul Salyers
PS1 - Senior Rep.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://ps1.SoftSeven.org
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Re: OT : PearPC

[Dan Shafer]

Well, Lynn, while I wouldn't disagree with your perspective, I would  
nonetheless argue that a world-class technology product with few  
marketing resources and no legal clout will get buried by a  
competitive product which, though inferior, has more marketing money  
and/or legal backing 99 times out of 100.

While it's certainly true that you can spend gobs and gobs of money  
and still end up with a total failure, it's less likely than having a  
total failure from *lack* of marketing resources. And given a market  
with two products characterized as I did above, the one with more  
marketing will beat the superior product with mind-numbing regularity.

On May 3, 2005, at 10:28 AM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:
Amen.
It's never about the technology. I've seen so many great
technologies buried by inferior products that had either more
marketing money or better lawyers than I've seen succeed.
Technology isnt usually what wins the day, but neither is it  
entirely money
or lawyers, but strategic use of both. Marketing (and sales) isnt a  
big
packaging machine that vendors throw money into, as its very  
possible to
spend gobs and gobs of money and still end up with a total failure.

Best regards,
Lynn Fredricks
President
Proactive International, LLC
- Because it is about who you know.(tm)

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Re: OT : PearPC

[Dan Shafer]

Amen.
It's never about the technology. I've seen so many great technologies  
buried by inferior products that had either more marketing money or  
better lawyers than I've seen succeed.

On May 3, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:
Sloppy contract wording by Apple (and clever wording by MS) was how  
MS got the right to make Windows from Apple in the first place.  In  
fact clever contract wording is how MS became the dominant provider  
of an OS to PC makers.  Superior contract writing wins out over  
superior technologies in business --make sure you read the fine print.

Dennis
On May 3, 2005, at 11:29 AM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I suspect the argument is that "Apple-labeled" means "Labeled by  
Apple", not "Labeled with an Apple"

Although, conspicuously, a definitive definition does seem to be  
lacking from the license...

On May 3, 2005, at 11:20 AM, MisterX wrote:

So if i stick the Apple "Label" from my old 128K,
on my PC I can run it!
Those guys should think differently! ;))
VNC does a great job too! With cheap 500$ HW...
Why bother with a 240MHz G3 (info pulled of the web)?
Time is money! ;)
Cheers
Xav

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Frank D. Engel, Jr.
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 15:07
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: OT : PearPC
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Right, the key phrase being "Apple-labeled computer."
On Apr 30, 2005, at 3:26 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

On Apr 30, 2005, at 8:55 AM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:

If you read the license agreement for OS X, there is a
clause which
states that it cannot legally be installed on non-apple hardware.
My Panther license says this:
 2.A
 This License allows you to install and use one copy
 of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled
 computer at a time.  This License does not allow
 the Apple Software to exist on more than one computer
 at a time [...]
Dar
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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not
perish, but have everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
iD8DBQFCdiX37aqtWrR9cZoRAmY4AJ43lIxqILhSIoGSXjSXq/+Co35g+gCeOP9a
WoXP193ApSxFbvpmn1t7ri0=
=zieJ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only  
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,  
but have everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCd5jX7aqtWrR9cZoRArbiAKCLnL6xLgzORQmV8Sc4lc+on1gt8ACbBMY4
fEiHxZ3oQugfkpn03rb0DF0=
=MLRT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Revolution and Education... website proposed

[Dan Shafer]

As someone who spent a lot of time with Smalltalk and helped write a  
couple of books and articles on Squeak, I can echo Frank's  
sentiments. It's a wonderful learning environment for kids.

On May 3, 2005, at 7:25 AM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
Another system you may wish to investigate is Squeak; special  
Squeak distributions and resources specifically designed for the  
educational market can be found at www.squeakland.org -- and Squeak  
is open-source, so it's free.

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Re: Anyone using Tiger Yet?

[Dan Shafer]

I see this in some apps but not all. Didn't notice it until you  
posted this.

On May 3, 2005, at 2:57 AM, Wouter wrote:
Hi,
Only a small problem.
On all my macs running Tiger, the triangles/arrows indicating a  
submenu in the revmenubar and in popup menus (like the one used in  
the inspector) do not show, though the submenus work.
Anybody seen the same?

Greetings,
Wouter
On 03 May 2005, at 10:34, Chris Carroll-Davis wrote:

Hello all.
Not seen any problems with Rev yet, but the driver for my wireless  
card is now broken and Photoshop won't open a dragged or double- 
clicked file.

Other than that ok.  Anyone else got any reports?
Chris
On 2 May 2005, at 06:34, Roger Guay wrote:

Been using it for 2 days . . . no problems yet.  And, I love it!
On May 1, 2005, at 9:00 AM, use-revolution- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Message: 9
Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 08:24:50 -0500
From: Burrton Wodruff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Anyone using Tiger Yet?
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Hi Folk,
Anyone using Tiger with Rev yet? Any problems?
Burt Woodruff
RippleSoft


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Speakers, Schedule Posted for RevCon West

[Dan Shafer]

OK, all you cautious types who've been hanging onto your money,  
waiting to see who we were going to have speaking in Monterey at  
RevCon West... Ante up! Chipp and I just finalized the schedule of  
speakers and topics and posted it at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest/Schedule.htm
So pop over there and check out the great conference program! I  
guarantee the only thing you'll find to complain about is that  
there's too many time slots where you want to be in both sessions.

Once you're convinced that you just can't afford to miss this  
conference, hop over to the "Register NOW!" link and sign up. We're  
going to have by far the biggest gathering of Rev developers ever  
assembled in one place. And what a beautiful place it is, too!

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Re: To Rev or not to Rev

[Dan Shafer]

Yeah, the *implementation* of Forth I tried to learn used frames as  
objects and approached OO in some key ways as I recall. OF course, I  
have blissfully forgotten all that in the dream of the Dreamcard  
Revolution. ;-)

On May 2, 2005, at 8:02 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:
On May 2, 2005, at 10:25 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:

I'm not sure how to catalog Forth, but it's not OO (inherently --  
there are OO implementations). It's procedural, certainly, but the  
inherent stack gives it a definite functional feel.

Forth is not really a high level language any more than assembler  
is.  It is an alternative machine language based on a double stack  
architecture.   There have been hardware implementations of Forth  
as the native machine instruction set.  When emulated, the "Code"  
just consists of a list of addresses to the actual machine code for  
the native functions, or addresses of  "higher level" defined  
function (uses a flag bit to tell which).  This makes it execute  
much faster than "byte code".  You can implement a higher level  
language within the syntax of Forth because of its extensible  
nature.  "Words" are defined from other words in an interpretive  
environment.  Because of the double stack architecture, data  
arguments are passed and returned on one stack and return addresses  
are in the other stack.  It makes a very efficient and powerful  
architecture for developing real time machine controllers with a  
tiny amount of memory.  You are free to define "words" that  
implement an OO environment if you choose.  You could even create  
Rev using this as the lower level "P code", or an operating system  
for that matter.

Dennis
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Re: revGoURL Not Working in Tiger?

[Dan Shafer]

revGoURL is now working. NO idea why it broke, but now it's fine.
Go figure.
On May 1, 2005, at 7:07 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Dan Shafer wrote:
OK, then it must be something here. Thanks for the reality check.
I had a TERRIBLE time with the upgrade (mostly my fault) so I   
probably clobbered some vital setting.

Your initial reaction is completely understandable given Apple's  
history  with such things.

Remember GURLGURL?  That was the Apple event ID and class for  
sending the default browser to any page, local or remote, for many  
years.

That is, until OS X.  Without even posting a tech note Apple yanked  
GURLGURL support for local web pages, requiring all developers who  
had been relying on it to rewrite their code to use the AppleScript  
"open location..." instead.

That was a hard lesson to learn, but a valueable one: trust nothing  
in any OS vendor's API, as ultimately everything is subject to  
change without notice.

By jumping in with a fix as soon as the issue was known, the Rev  
team pulled off something the Apple team couldn't be bothered  
with:  revGoURL  continues to support your call to it regardless of  
which OS version you're calling it from.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
 Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
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Re: revGoURL Not Working in Tiger?

[Dan Shafer]

OK, then it must be something here. Thanks for the reality check.
I had a TERRIBLE time with the upgrade (mostly my fault) so I  
probably clobbered some vital setting.

On May 1, 2005, at 4:13 PM, Todd Higgins wrote:
Hi Dan,
No problems for me. I am running Rev 2.5.1 on Mac OS X 10.4  
(upgrade install from 10.3.9)

Todd
On May 1, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

It may be peculiar to my setup, but can someone try revGoURL in  
Tiger and report back? I can't get it to work. Nothing happens at  
all.


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--
Todd Higgins
ASG Systems Engineer
MICRO Technology Groupe, Inc
voice: 215-788-6811 fax: 215-788-1766
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www: http://www.mtgroupe.com
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revGoURL Not Working in Tiger?

[Dan Shafer]

It may be peculiar to my setup, but can someone try revGoURL in Tiger  
and report back? I can't get it to work. Nothing happens at all.


~~~~~~
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Re: Split screen output for Presentations

[Dan Shafer]

Maybe RR should consider a generous and widely publicized "sidegrade"  
deal for current owners of Director who are nervous. I've seen such  
campaigns pull in huge sales.

On May 1, 2005, at 1:45 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Especially since a lot of people use Director/Flash for software  
development that it is not the best tool for and can actually make  
some projects obsolete. It would not take much of an argument to  
persuade these people to switch or at least try an xTalk for.


~~~~~~
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Re: To Rev or not to Rev

[Dan Shafer]

I used to feel this way. And I don't code in Java myself, preferring 
Python when Rev won't do. But the latest changes to Java and the 
brilliant IDEs (e.g., Eclipse) and widget toolkits (e.g., 
Windowbuildedr Pro), have really streamlined the dev process. OTOH, 
it's still Java, which is syntactically far too much like C/C++ for my 
personal taste.

But when a client needed an app that did stuff nobody I could find 
could figure out how to do in Rev without a LOT of coding while there 
were dozens of Java libraries available for each of those tasks, I 
realized why a lot of people choose Java, Python and other languages 
with great third-party (and mostly free) libraries.

On Apr 30, 2005, at 12:55 PM, James Spencer wrote:
IMHO, for things that Rev is not good for, I would use almost anything 
rather than Java which I don't much care for
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Re: To Rev or not to Rev

[Dan Shafer]

I suggest it's the other way around.
One could write a Transcript interpreter and IDE to duplicate that of 
Revolution in Java or Smalltalk, e.g., but it would be all but 
impossible to write a Java compiler or interpreter and IDE in 
Transcript.

But that's moot. Nobody's going to do either. Java is good for some 
things for which Rev is not suited (mostly apps requiring lots of 
interaction with system-level resources and multi-programmer projects) 
and Rev is good for some things for which Java is either overkill or 
cumbersome (almost everything else...LOL).

On Apr 30, 2005, at 9:12 AM, Jim Carwardine wrote:
So, in summary, Rev can create an OOP, but an OOP can't create Rev... 
Jim

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Re: To Rev or not to Rev

[Dan Shafer]

I couldn't resist jumping into this one just briefly.
Forth is one of two programming languages I have tried to learn with 
complete lack of success. The other is LISP. Both are object-oriented 
(at least Forth is in some implementations and LISP is purely). I'm an 
object thinker but these two languages have syntaxes that get in my 
way. Others, I know, find them quite natural. That's why we have so 
many langauges!

On Apr 30, 2005, at 8:57 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:
Forth is still alive and well today.
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Re: To Rev or not to Rev

[Dan Shafer]

On Apr 30, 2005, at 7:31 AM, Derek Bump wrote:
> "it is more of scripting language that a real programming language ­ 
which
> is awesome for the non-technical developers like me and you, but is 
not a
> true object oriented application language which is being taught in
> universities."

I've made a career study of scripting languages. Guys like Prof. John 
Ousterhout, who invented the scripting language Tcl and who can be 
presumed to know a good deal about the subject, have typically 
described the difference between a scripting language and a programming 
language as being one of intent. A scripting language, by their (and 
my) understanding is a language primarily intended to glue together 
processes and applications that would otherwise not be able to interact 
with one another. A programming language may be able to do some or all 
of that as well, but is more typically intended for the creation of 
independent programs.

AppleScript is, IMNSHO, a classic example of that. You *can* write 
quasi-standalone applications in AppleScript but it's painful. But ask 
AppleScript to get data from file A, send it to Application B, lanch 
Application C and print something in a seamless process, and it fairly 
shines.

People who say things like the above are typically only slightly 
informed (and you know what they say about a little knowledge and 
danger) and tend to confuse the issue of scripting vs. programming 
languages with that of interpreted vs. compiled languages. I used to 
get a real kick out of demonstrating Smalltalk apps and having people 
ask me, "How does that thing run so fast?" and then replying 
nonchalantly, "Oh, that's because it's interpreted." Heads nodded 
sagely.


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Re: Rev & OOP

[Dan Shafer]

Oh, darn. I was sort of hoping this thread would fizzle out. Then you 
had to throw down a gauntlet, Rob, and you know how I am about 
gauntlets (and, for that matter, things littering the landscape like 
thrown gauntlets)

I spent MANY years training and conditioning myself to think about the 
world around me in terms of objects. From a programming perspective, I 
find myself always more comfortable dealing with objects in the sense 
in which Smalltalk and Java (and decidedly NOT C++) think about them. 
OOP languages and OODBMS tools have *always* been more productive for 
me than procedural and relational models because once I trained myself 
to "think in objects," those approaches felt -- and were -- unnatural 
to me.

Far from being the "buzz concept du jour," OOP has been around, viable 
and in many places on the globe an all-but-inviolate standard for more 
than 30 years.

Now, that is not to say or suggest that every programming language that 
isn't strict OOP isn't usable or useful. Far from it. I use Revolution 
and Transcript because, even though it's not an OO environment, it is 
what I refer to in my books as "object-LIKE." That is, it represents 
enough of an accommodation of the key ideas of object orientation to be 
usable and useful on medium-sized, single-programmer projects involving 
non-object data. But I must say that if I had a choice of using an 
equivalent development environment that was syntactically as clean as 
Transcript or Smalltalk or Python and gave me the advantages of 
Revolution (cross-platform delivery while developing on my platform of 
choice, true stand-alone creation, great widget library, transparent 
database access), I'd switch in a New York nanosecond. The truth is, no 
such tool exists yet.

So I would agree that the programmer who rejected Revolution out of 
hand without digging more deeply into the advantages it offers and 
shares with OO environments was hasty and ill-advised (and probably, as 
you say, more interested in eliminating alternatives than in finding 
the correct one). But to dismiss OO out of hand is, IMNSHO, equally 
short-sighted. As you so rightly say, the two big concerns are 
programmer productivity and code maintainability. And in those 
respects, Transcript is awfully hard to beat.

FWIW.
On Apr 30, 2005, at 7:21 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:
IMF(oole's)O, the programmer who ruled out RunRev as a development 
platform on the basis of it not being a true OOP language was simply 
looking for a reason to pan it rather than do the kind of in depth 
analysis required to properly evaluate its potential.

The bottom lines for software development are real-world productivity 
and code maintainability, not compliance with the "buzz concept de 
jour".

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company
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Re: [ANN] Reminder - online scripting conferences

[Dan Shafer]

Judy
You and I may not always see eye to eye, but on this point we are in 
harmony.

Yuk.
I'll *try* to be there, but no promises.
On Apr 29, 2005, at 9:39 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
I hate mornings...  @;-)
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Re: Bypass Repeat Structure in Debug Mode

[Dan Shafer]

Tom.
Can't you use "Step Over" instead of "Step Into" in those cases? Not 
tested, but it does seem like that's what ought to happen.

Alternatively, you could put in two breakpoints, one before and one 
after the loop. After the first breakpoint executes, hit "Run" in the 
debugger and things should stop at the next breakpoint, no?

On Apr 27, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Does anyone know how to bypass a lengthy repeat structure while in 
script debug mode? I still need the repeat to execute but I want to 
skip having to click through it.
I need to follow the script to find out where my problem is at but 
this repeat for each line x structure takes a couple hundred clicks to 
get through.
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Re: Rev.101 Revisited... Background groups

[Dan Shafer]

Off-hand, one *possible* way of doing this (if I'm understanding 
correctly what you want, which is no guarantee) would be to:

1. Use a group with background behavior for the controls.
2. Have each control call a function or handler with the same name on 
all tabs.
3. Put the *scripts* for those handlers at the card level rather than 
the background level.

Pressing a button in the group might, e.g., send the message 
"iGotClicked" in all cases (because you cannot have different scripts 
for the objects in a single group without doing a lot of conditional 
processing as far as I can come up with off the top of my head). But on 
one card, the iGotClicked handler does one thing and on another card, 
the handler of the same name does something completely different.

Make sense?
Maybe someone more awake than I am can offer a cleaner solution.
On Apr 27, 2005, at 3:30 AM, docmann wrote:
Basically, I need the same control interface (UI) for each of my tabs,
but with different scripting actions for each card.
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Re: [ANN] ChatRev with Kevin Miller

[Dan Shafer]

I got in just fine last night and happened to find Bjornke himself in 
the chat room. We had a nice conversation.

On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:02 AM, sims wrote:
I had downloaded the latest 1.3 and it had the right port number. I 
didn't get any errors, it just wouldn't connect. It just sort of sat 
there.
Did you click the middle btn which reads "Chat"?
sims
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Re: another multi-user "solution"?

[Dan Shafer]

Rob
Ah, good point. It would appear that there is not a simple way to solve 
this problem using text files as locking semaphores.

Back to the ol' drawing board!
On Apr 25, 2005, at 11:59 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:
Hi Dan,
Second, using the semaphore file approach that Jacque suggested is 
eminently doable and quite simple to implement. It would be pretty 
easy, e.g., to have a single file that just contained a list of all 
the card numbers currently open for editing and checking it before 
allowing a user to edit a card's contents. Equally easy and perhaps a 
little better from a robustness perspective would be to create a text 
file called, e.g., card.lok, where card is the name or ID of the 
card, for a card when it's opened for editing and then deleting that 
file when the user's done. In either case, a pretty simple command 
could check to ensure the card the user asks to edit isn't already 
being edited and take some appropriate action.
Question:
How do changes on individual cards in different copies of a stack in 
each user's RAM get made to the copy resident on disk?  There is not, 
to my knowledge, a way to save changes on one card of a stack without 
overwriting the entire stack.  So if I open a stack before you, 
Jacque, and Kurt do, wait until you all close the stack, and then save 
it, the only changes to the original stack will be mine.  You need to 
take it the extra step the Rob Eppich took EPSI-Talk, and have each 
users' copy of the stack updated whenever anyone else makes a change.  
This was more feasible in HyperTalk than Transcript, me thinks.

One advantage of a client-server design is record locking tables can 
reside in the server's RAM; so no disk files are necessary and all 
records are automatically unlocked when the server shuts down.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
 Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
 from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: another multi-user "solution"?

[Dan Shafer]

Two comments.
First, check the total number of "records" you need. I think that there 
are (at least used to be) upper limits on the total number of files in 
a directory in some OSes. (That may have only applied to Mac Classic, 
but it's worth being sure about up front.)

Second, using the semaphore file approach that Jacque suggested is 
eminently doable and quite simple to implement. It would be pretty 
easy, e.g., to have a single file that just contained a list of all the 
card numbers currently open for editing and checking it before allowing 
a user to edit a card's contents. Equally easy and perhaps a little 
better from a robustness perspective would be to create a text file 
called, e.g., card.lok, where card is the name or ID of the card, for a 
card when it's opened for editing and then deleting that file when the 
user's done. In either case, a pretty simple command could check to 
ensure the card the user asks to edit isn't already being edited and 
take some appropriate action.

On Apr 24, 2005, at 12:56 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
On 4/24/05 10:39 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:
I concluded that, since Transcript reserves write capability for the 
first person to open a stack until she closes it, any scheme that 
requires concurrent update by more than one user meant opening and 
closing the data stack with each read or write--which I considered 
unacceptable overhead.  But note that all read-only stacks can be 
shared by multiple users now.
Actually, while HyperCard works that way, Revolution lets multiple 
users open a stack and write to it. If two people have the stack open 
at the same time, either one can overwrite the other's changes. Record 
locking has to be scripted; often accomplished by writing a small text 
file to disk that tracks usage.


~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: To MySQL or Not SQL

[Dan Shafer]

Pierre.
I think you meant to refer to Trevor's libDB libraries here. Just in 
case someone gets confused.

I really agree with you about SQL being the perfect Rev sister ship, 
though, and I like the analogy.

One thing I've been thinking about a lot lately in conjunction with a 
set of apps I'm doing for my main client, is whether or not to use 
altSQlite out the gate for all data storage, skipping over cards and 
custom properties altogether (I'm talking about storage of record-type 
data here, not things for which cards and props are decidedly correct). 
One big advantage of that approach is that if the client's needs change 
and suddenly he wants the data on a networked server with a robust 
database, I don't have to change my code except for the connect stuff 
(typically one line) for it to just work. Since I seem to attract 
clients whose needs always change (I think that's why we call them 
"clients"), this has a lot of attraction for me. And now that altSQLite 
has overcome all the objections I had to Valentina (primarily the 
costs), this approach makes more and more sense to me.

Anyone else thinking along these lines?
On Apr 24, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
SQL is, probably, in about direct to disk datas storage and 
management, the perfect Rev sister-ship and, with the help of Chipp's 
libraries, a piece of cake to set-up. Leaen once how to drive SQL 
back-ends from within Rev and you will than use this winning 
combination all the time :-)

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Re: Initial Caps in Table Fields

[Dan Shafer]

No, the initial letter in the first cell was not capped when I opened 
it.

Dan
On Apr 23, 2005, at 3:33 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Dan,
Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.5.1

Was the word Left  initial capped when you opened it? It was here. 
But, When I copy the table field to another stack and type into that 
first square the problem goes away. meaning if I type with lower case 
it stays that way in another stack. I am using a substack of a stack 
with a windowShape . with hardly any scripts in the stack or card 
script.

TOm
On Apr 22, 2005, at 11:33 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
Tom
Just can't make it fail. I tried about 30 times and it worked 
correctly every time.

What OS are you testing on?
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Re: CSS

[Dan Shafer]

Thanks. That's always been my perception of my forte: I try to explain 
difficult concepts and techniques in simple terms.

I'm doing the same thing with my new career as a spiritual 
teacher/writer.

Dan
On Apr 22, 2005, at 10:18 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
You probably get panned by wizards for being simplistic... but that's 
the whole point...and you do it well.

You can't tell a person to go to M, when he's at A... he has to know 
how to get to B from A... maybe later he can learn to skip rope, chew 
gum, whistle and hop at the same time, but in the beginning he needs 
help just to get his head around it... "Here's the main building 
blocks."  That's where Dan comes in :-)


On Apr 21, 2005, at 7:59 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:
Thanks for the kind words. Reviewers seem to be very hot or very cold 
on it.

you've read it once more than I have!
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Re: Initial Caps in Table Fields

[Dan Shafer]

Tom
Just can't make it fail. I tried about 30 times and it worked correctly 
every time.

What OS are you testing on?
On Apr 22, 2005, at 3:59 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Dan,
I put a test stack in my user area.
mcgrath3
"table issue with caps"
type a lower case word in the upper left field and hit the tab key. It 
will capitalize.
But not allways.

Tom
On Apr 22, 2005, at 6:26 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
Can't reproduce this one, Tom. It works correctly on my system (OS X 
10.3.9, Rev 2.5.1) every time.

On Apr 21, 2005, at 8:38 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Actually it is only the upper most top left table field that wants 
to capitalize the first letter. The ones below it will stay lower 
case if I typed it that way.

This is weird to me?
Tom
On Apr 21, 2005, at 11:17 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Hey, does anyone know WHY 'table fields' keep initial capitalizing 
each word when I tab out of that field?

Is there a way to turn this off? I need exact names in the table.
TOm
Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, 
Rev 2.5

Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
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Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
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Where xTalk Excels (Was Re: OT: Adobe kills Director)

[Dan Shafer]

There have been some wonderfully eloquent descriptions in this thread 
of why some of us prefer xTalk to more conventional programming 
languages. I liked the poetry vs. novel, sprint vs. marathon analogy a 
lot.

For me, writing software and writing prose and poetry are very similar 
processes. I spend virtually all of my time engaged in one or the other 
of those creative pursuits. And, for me, xTalks are the only languages 
that get out of the way and let me create. I don't have to spend a huge 
amount of time thinking about syntax, structure, and other elements of 
the language. i just use it. This comes from a couple of features of 
xTalks that are not generally shared with other languages: their 
human-like syntax and their encouragement of verbosity.

Many years ago, Adele Goldbert, a Smalltalk pioneer, wrote a wonderful 
paper for the ACM called "Programmer as Reader" in which she argued 
persuasively that since most programs spend far more of their life 
cycles in maintenance mode than in development mode, it was important 
that programs be inherently readable. Smalltalk took a very 
sentence-structure approach to creating readability and it is that 
feature which drew me to it.

Transcript code tends to be more readable than code written in other 
languages, in part, I think, because the syntax itself is verbose. 
Writing "put 14 into field 'age'" puts the coder in a different mind 
set than "age=14". At least it seems to in my head.

Perhaps in part because of this human-readability and verbosity (I 
suspect the two go hand-in-hand), it is far more often the case that a 
Transcript statement does what I expect it to do even when I'm unsure 
of the syntax than is true of most other languages (notable exception 
for me being Python). I'm amazed as I work on projects how often I go 
through this process: (1) I wonder how to say that in Revolution; (2) 
I'll try it this way and see what happens; (3) what do you know, it 
worked. This is in part, of course, because the very high-level nature 
of the language means that step 2 never (at least in my experience so 
far) causes any catastrophes. (That possibility is what ultimately 
caused my uneasiness with Smalltalk, where it was at least 
theoretically possible that I could munge up the entire Smalltalk 
image, not just my app, since I was never isolated from it.)

People who don't program for a living and who are generally not trained 
in computer art (I'm not sure it's really a science, are you?) 
generally find xTalk languages more comfortable, inviting and 
productive. And it's good to hear from some real professional coders 
who are finding the same experience.

On Apr 22, 2005, at 8:11 AM, Jesse Sng wrote:
You know, Jesse, I COMPLETELY get it now.
xTalk is the main reason why I decided to check out (and then buy a
copy of) RR a couple of months ago.  I'm completely hooked on the
language, which is stupid and crazy, since I've worked in
30+languages, most of them BEFORE xTalk, and I had more-or-less given
up on xTalk for the last 10 years.
I've been in the same situation. I could do the other stuff better 
than most people but there was something about XTalk that was 
unmatched.

I compared it to writing novels vs writing poetry. XTalk development 
was like poetry, you do it in small chunks, in small, elegant bits and 
instead marching down the timeline of a project, you could sprint in 
short spurts and then get to enjoy the scenery at the same time.

It isn't rational to like xTalk more than BASIC.  OK, no, that's so
not true.  I'm shutting up now.  I actually was pondering writing an
xTalk interpreter/cross-compiler earlier this year until I discovered
RR.  With the innovations that SC brought after I gave up on it that
were then incorporated into RR I'm glad I didn't.  Of course, RR has
quirks in it that are extremely annoying, but with some suggestions
from Richard, I'm hopeful that I can ultimately overcome them.
Folks used poo-poo the stuff I did in SC, saying that they could 
better with all their advanced tools and superior brains, but nothing 
ever came out of those projects, while I moved it from black and white 
Hypercard to Hypercard with 24 bit colour using my own externals, to 
SC.

While lots of things took very little code in SC, you can build very 
sophisticated things with much code. Getting to enjoy Rev a bit more 
and it helps when you try it out, do some stuff, back off, think a bit 
before going back to it some more.

Getting into Rev isn't quite the same as SC or HC, but it isn't 
difficult either.

Ultimately, I think it's because the development model better suits 
the playfulness in my mind when I'm initiating a new project. It 
invites the playfulness and the experimentation, very much like 
messing around with your kids' Lego bricks.

Re: Some advice about Dreamcard player

[Dan Shafer]

As far as I know, any Rev stack that doesn't rely on features not 
supported in DC (including, e.g., database access) will run in the DC 
environment.

Most of the time, though, it's probably better to compile it.
On Apr 22, 2005, at 6:23 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:
This program was intended only for members of the Run Rev list, but I 
would offer it to this individual to run on the Player. I have had no 
experience with the Player. Does it run just Dreamcard stacks or any 
Run Rev stack?

~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
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Re: Several Text issues

[Dan Shafer]

On Apr 22, 2005, at 10:42 AM, michael parent wrote:
I looked at these suggestions still need help
1 Cannot see how I set the Htmltext when I am putting the text into the
field
Put the text that you want in the field into a variable, then set the 
htmlText of the field to the variable. Assume that the list of files 
you want to display is in a variable called tFilesToShow:

set the htmlText of field "File List" to tFilesToShow
2. I need to search by a user entered search string so it has to be by
variable, how Do I use the Find command with a variable, or is there a
different way to do this?
Just put the variable into the search command. Assume the variable is 
called tTextToFind:

find string tTextToFind in field "File List"
You may want to use some other form than "string"; the "find" docs are 
pretty clear on these options.

3. The revgourl seems to open the file, I don't want to open the file, 
I
want to open the Explorer Window to that file location so then the user
has access to the file to attach to email or burn to CD ect. This is
mainly going to be on Windows XP Pro

I don't see any documented way to do this.
Thanks again
Michael Parent
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Re: Initial Caps in Table Fields

[Dan Shafer]

Can't reproduce this one, Tom. It works correctly on my system (OS X 
10.3.9, Rev 2.5.1) every time.

On Apr 21, 2005, at 8:38 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Actually it is only the upper most top left table field that wants to 
capitalize the first letter. The ones below it will stay lower case if 
I typed it that way.

This is weird to me?
Tom
On Apr 21, 2005, at 11:17 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
Hey, does anyone know WHY 'table fields' keep initial capitalizing 
each word when I tab out of that field?

Is there a way to turn this off? I need exact names in the table.
TOm
Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.5

Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RevConWest '05
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Re: CSS

[Dan Shafer]

Thanks for the kind words. Reviewers seem to be very hot or very cold 
on it.

you've read it once more than I have!
On Apr 20, 2005, at 10:09 PM, Sivakatirswami wrote:
And Dan, as an owner of HTML Utopia... I want to thank you... without 
your book I don't think I could have made the bridge from the Cretan 
Era to the CSS era. Read I three times cover to cover and  still refer 
to it regularly.

~~~~~~
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RevConWest '05
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Re: CSS

[Dan Shafer]

As the author of a widely read book on CSS -- specifically targeted at 
the question of how you replace table-driven layouts with CSS -- I must 
say that I agree with Stephen here. Being annoyed at peoples' use of 
CSS is kind of futile; it's been decreed as the standard and its huge 
advantages (principally, I think, the separation of content from 
presentation and standardization in browsers, which is still not 100% 
but better than for other approaches) means it is going to be here to 
stay.

I've played around a bit with creating a Rev stack that would read 
formatted text in Rev apps and create appropriate CSS style sheets to 
describe the content but given that the support in htmlText is so weak 
in terms of the totality of HTML and the fact that the content would 
have to be modified to refer to the style sheet in any case, I haven't 
seen any real value there beyond the academic satisfaction.

On Apr 20, 2005, at 2:27 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:
Well I do a lot of web work too, and I assure you that CSS is the 
future and the way large and consistent sites can be reasonably done. 
What's frustrating is that if a page is constructed in CSS that it is 
not easily possible to see what the commands do as you don't see the 
results until it's rendered in a browser or two...

Using tables is discouraged today - you can do it better and in a more 
modular way with CSS. And CSS allows absolute pixel dimensions for 
better cross platform display. HTML was not designed to be a design 
protocol, but a way to organize and link information online, in 
outline form. The font and many other HTML tags are limited and vary 
depending on platform and browser and shouldn't be used in todays html 
code. CSS is standard, and is essential for database-driven sites.

I had to learn to love it, but I think it's great. And it WOULD be 
nice to have style sheets  in REV if we're going to have html.

sqb

X
What, no Replace in your text editor?
Again, I'm mainly annoyed with the way that people use CSS, and the
fact that people seem to use it for EVERYTHING, not just large
documents, which makes small ones much more difficult to read.
It's MIKEY, DAMMIT!
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: Dan & Chipp Are Traveling

[Dan Shafer]

Sorry, Judy. Just a bad attempt at humor.
I meant:
The turnout is huge, bigger than we anticipated.
But there isn't enough money in the kitty for me and Chipp to disappear.
Whew.
Back to my packing.
Dan
On Apr 17, 2005, at 11:32 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
H "the LARGEST group of developers ever signed up for such a
gathering" and "there weren't THAT many sign-ups!"... together... in 
not
only the same paragraph, but the same sentence, dealing with the same
group of folks.

I don't know what to think.  And, I'm one of the "weren't THAT many
sign-ups!".
I don't know whether to feel depressed or part of a super-duper,
exclusive, club.
But looking forward to Monterey none-the-less.  At least the wine will 
be
great.  Or okay anyway (if you're driving Coastal-ish California from 
the
south, and you like good, hearty red wines, try Paso Robles!  Home of
California's Barbera varietals).

Perhaps the 'problem' if there is one is that the community is smallish
AND widely-dispersed, meaning that any devCon will be sparsely-attended
at best without any aspersions on the greater community at-large?
Maybe it's the culture that is a compensating grace factor.  Not to be
self-congratulatory, but a student on Wednesday asked about getting 
all of
my sample stacks/handouts and I pointed her to the Tabs thingy on
RevOnline.

She quite frankly was amazed.  Got things a little confused and asked 
if I
worked for Apple, then for Rev...and then said something to the effect,
'you did this for free for absolute strangers'?

I had to explain that it was a valuable part of the user culture.
Apparently not-so-well-known elsewhere.
Judy

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:
Just so those of you who are signed up for RevCon West (the LARGEST
group of developers ever signed up for such a gathering already...and
we have more than two months to go!) or have questions about it won't
think Chipp and I have absconded with the funds never to be heard from
again (there weren't THAT many sign-ups!)
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Dan & Chipp Are Traveling

[Dan Shafer]

Just so those of you who are signed up for RevCon West (the LARGEST 
group of developers ever signed up for such a gathering already...and 
we have more than two months to go!) or have questions about it won't 
think Chipp and I have absconded with the funds never to be heard from 
again (there weren't THAT many sign-ups!)

Chipp and I are both on vacation this week. Complete coincidence that 
we're gone at the same time, but it seemed like a good idea to let our 
fellow Revolutionaries know.

We're both back in the saddle on Monday, April 25.
~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: Handling updates

[Dan Shafer]

Chipp Walters at Altuit has a really elegant solution to this problem. 
I'm sure he'll jump in when he visits the list next.


OK, another newbie question.  Once you install a program on
someone's local machine for win/linux/mac that uses mysql or
PG, do you typically notify them of patches to the engine or
expect end users to be smart enough to go out and get the
patches themselves?  It doesn't seem likely that most end
users would have any clue how to do this.  So if I have a
robust application that uses one of these databases, are
people required to patch, or since it's a local install can
you just toss a database file out there that will respond to
sql queries like an access database where it's essentially
just a file? (I don't suppose there's a hack to let access
databases run on
Mac/Linux???)
Thanks,
Oak

~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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RevCon West Attendees With Guests

[Dan Shafer]

If you're planning to attend RevCon West June 17-18 in Monterey and are 
bringing with you family or friends who won't be intrigued by sitting 
around listening to you yammer on about Revolution (what's UP with 
those non-geeks anyway?), please email me off list at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and let me know about your traveling companions. 
Things like age, interests, your arrival/departure dates, etc.

Then I'll put together some ideas and options for things for them to do 
while you're being techie and for the group to do when you're not.

This is already shaping up as the best and biggest Rev developer 
conference ever. Now let's see if we can make it one your friends and 
family will want to come back to in 2006 as well!

Don't forget. Today's the deadline for the $70 savings on Early Bird 
discount.

~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
TODAY -- APRIL 15 -- IS THE LAST DAY FOR EARLY BIRD SAVINGS OF $70!
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Re: RevCon West Tourist Activities

[Dan Shafer]

It's definitely a bus connection. Monterey has no active passenger rail 
service.

Dan
On Apr 15, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Jeffrey Reynolds wrote:
yep, there is usually a connecting amtrak bus from salinas to 
monterey. I have had folks tell me they booked a train reservation 
from oakland or san jose to monterey only to be directed to the bus in 
the parking lot instead of a train... its a nice train ride, but 
probably 3-4 hrs from oakland with train salinas then bus. bout 2 hrs 
by the bus. Im sure Amtrak will tell you if its just direct bus 
connection or train and bus.

jeff
Jeffrey Reynolds
6620 Michaels Dr
Bethesda, MD  20817
301.469.8562
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Apr 15, 2005, at 11:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

I expect Dan to kept us all amused with a never-ending sequence of
breathtaking activities--free.
I hate to drive and so will be taking AMTRAK, probably  to Salinas.
Anyone know if there is bus service to Monterey  from Salinas?
Jim
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Last Day for $70 Discount to RevCon West

[Dan Shafer]

Just a quick reminder that today's the last day you can sign up for the 
Early Bird discount price for RevCon West, being held in beautiful 
Monterey, California, on June 17-18. In other words, last chance to 
save $70.

The price for the rest of today only is $125. Tomorrow, it goes up to 
its original, real price of $195.

Also, note that ONLY Early Birds get to vote on the topic list to make 
up the conference offerings. We have over 60 topics on the list but we 
can only put on about 24 of them, so your vote can have a pretty big 
influence. We'll close that balloting some time next week and then 
fairly soon thereafter post the tentative conference schedule gird on 
the site.

Remember, too, that we already know of at least one valuable give-away 
at the conference, Chipp Walters' superb new Interface Designer tool. 
I've tested this sucker and I guarantee you're going to love what it 
does for both the quality and the ease of design of your UIs in your 
Rev stacks and apps.

Please get your sign-ups in TODAY. This conference is a great deal at 
$195, but at $125, it's nearly a steal.

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
See you in Monterey this summer.
~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: RevCon West Tourist Activities

[Dan Shafer]

Jim.
There is bus service from Salinas to Monterey for sure. In fact, I 
think Amtrak runs such a bus but I know Monterey-Salinas Transit does.

Looking forward to seeing you.
On Apr 15, 2005, at 6:20 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:
I expect Dan to kept us all amused with a never-ending sequence of 
breathtaking activities--free.

I hate to drive and so will be taking AMTRAK, probably  to Salinas. 
Anyone know if there is bus service to Monterey  from Salinas?

Jim
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RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
TODAY - APRIL 15 - IS THE LAST DAY FOR THE EARLY BIRD DISCOUNT!
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Re: Learning Tabbed Buttons.

[Dan Shafer]

The pCardName is called a "parameter" (which is sort of why convention 
around here suggests, but does not insist, it start with a "p") sent 
automatically by the menuPick system message. If you look at the docs 
on menuPick, you'll understand it, I suspect.

Every time the menuPick message is sent, the name of the menu (in this 
case, the name of the tabbed button) is sent along.

On Apr 14, 2005, at 2:56 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Ryno Swart wrote:
on menuPick pCardName
   go to card pCardName
end menuPick
..
I understand all but the "p" thing...
That curmudgeonly habit is explained here:
<http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/scriptstyle.html>
--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
 Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
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~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
EARLY BIRD $70 DISCOUNT ENDS APRIL 15!
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Re: RevCon West Tourist Activities

[Dan Shafer]

Mark
Happy to be of service. If we get a big enough turnout -- and it's 
starting to look like we definitely will -- I can arrange some really 
fun activities for folks. Monterey is a tourist destination resort 
community and there is a lot to do here.

On Apr 14, 2005, at 1:18 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
I am bringing my family as well and would be interested in some 
activities as well.  Thanks for looking into this.

~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
EARLY BIRD $70 DISCOUNT ENDS APRIL 15!
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Re: RevConWest

[Dan Shafer]

Got your sign-up, Sandy. Thanks. Looking forward to meeting you in June!
On Apr 14, 2005, at 12:28 PM, SB wrote:
Intensive Rev and the California coast-- what could be better?
LIke others, we also would like to make a holiday of it, adding a day 
or two to our stay.

See you in June.
Sandy
~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: Revolution Online Scripting Conferences

[Dan Shafer]

Yes, the answer is Yes.
We're using some way-cool technology that teams up Revolution and the 
fabulous Web Crossing server technology. Insanely great.

On Apr 14, 2005, at 10:33 AM, Judy Perry wrote:
I believe that the answer is "Yes".
Judy
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Glen Bojsza wrote:
Will the sessions be recorded for later reviews?
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~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
EARLY BIRD $70 SAVING ENDS APRIL 15!
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Re: A Cool Freebie for RevCon West Attendees (Resend)

[Dan Shafer]

Yeah, they're doing some great stuff.
dan
On Apr 14, 2005, at 9:13 AM, MisterX wrote:
have you seen the google map lately?
It's awesome!!! Including the satelite images!!!
I had a great time flying over chicago over the roads and places i  
knew so
well!

Quite cool!!!
http://maps.google.com
The satelitte images you will see via the link top right...
It's truely amazing what we can do today!
Here's Monterey!
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.595703, 
-121.940649&spn=1.435547,2.515998&h
l=en

cheers
Xavier
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Devin Asay
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 17:42
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: A Cool Freebie for RevCon West Attendees (Resend)
Dan,
I'm thinking of making a family trip of it as well. Any
information you could gather about local sights would be most
appreciated -- as would discount passes. ;-)
Devin
On Apr 14, 2005, at 9:21 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:
Judy..
Definitely a great idea. I can arrange free or low-cost
passes to the
Monterey Bay Aquarium for your family and MOnterey has a small but
thriving wine business in its own right as well.
Hope to see you in June.
(Don't forget...deadline for saving $70 is tomorrow, April 15.)
On Apr 14, 2005, at 12:30 AM, Judy Perry wrote:
Judy
who's thinking about making it part of a drive-up, wine-tasting
vacation with the kiddies, hubby, and three dogs.
~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham
Young University
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RevCon West Tourist Activities

[Dan Shafer]

Devin.
After I get back from my spring vacation (the week of 4/25), I'll start 
putting up some links and information about non-conference Monterey 
stuff. And I'll send an email to all registered attendees with details 
about discounts, etc.

Right now, we're thinking about offering two or three activities on 
Sunday, June 19, either free or at steep discounts, for attendees 
and/or family/friends. Whether we do that and what we do will depend on 
how many people raise their hands and indicate an interest. The more 
people we sign up, of course, the cheaper we can get these things.

On Apr 14, 2005, at 8:41 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
Dan,
I'm thinking of making a family trip of it as well. Any information 
you could gather about local sights would be most appreciated -- as 
would discount passes. ;-)

Devin

~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
EARLY BIRD $70 DISCOUNT ENDS APRIL 15!
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Re: A Cool Freebie for RevCon West Attendees (Resend)

[Dan Shafer]

Judy..
Definitely a great idea. I can arrange free or low-cost passes to the 
Monterey Bay Aquarium for your family and MOnterey has a small but 
thriving wine business in its own right as well.

Hope to see you in June.
(Don't forget...deadline for saving $70 is tomorrow, April 15.)
On Apr 14, 2005, at 12:30 AM, Judy Perry wrote:
Judy
who's thinking about making it part of a drive-up, wine-tasting 
vacation
with the kiddies, hubby, and three dogs.

~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: How many developers in USA & Oracle question

[Dan Shafer]

Provided you stay with the subset of standard SQL supported by Oracle, 
you can use any local SQL database that Rev understands for your 
development work. When it comes time to deploy the project, you simply 
change your (hopefully solitary) database connect statement to point to 
a different database and you're done.

It really is (at least in most cases) that simple. If your app is 
really complex and uses a lot of unique features in one DB or another, 
then the advice doesn't hold.

On Apr 14, 2005, at 4:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But tell me, suppose I wanted to develop at test applications on my 
desktop
which would ultimately be intended for Oracle as a back end.  Am I 
better  of
trying to get some type of "personal Oracle" (if there is such a 
thing) for
my desktop... or is there something else I should use for the desktop 
during
testing, that would not be such a hassle to switch to Oracle once
deployed/distributed?

~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
EARLY BIRD $70 DISCOUNT ENDS APRIL 15!
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Re: How many developers in USA & Oracle question

[Dan Shafer]

You have indeed found software that is a "dream come true," as you say. 
Welcome to the Revolution!

On Apr 14, 2005, at 4:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just curious. Are there many developers using Revolution in the USA. 
Many  on
East Coast?

Appx how many developers are their world wide (guesstimating)?
As far as I know, nobody knows how many Rev developers there are 
anywhere and RunRev doesn't reveal this information because it is 
viewed as a corporate trade secret. That's true, BTW, of *all* 
developer tool companies as far as I know. Suffice to say that there 
are enough users worldwide -- and quite a number on the East Coast -- 
that RunRev is motivated to keep upgrading and releasing the product 
and you can always get an answer to a question on this list. Well, 
almost always.

You have a chance to meet the largest single gathering of Rev 
developers ever held June 17-18 in Monterey at RevCon West. Only two 
more days left on the Early Bird rate to save $70.

:-D
~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
EARLY BIRD $70 DISCOUNT ENDS APRIL 15!
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Re: A Cool Freebie for RevCon West Attendees

[Dan Shafer]

Wouldn't you know it? One minute after I resend my note, it shows up on 
the list.

Sigh.
dan
On Apr 13, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:
I am really excited today to announce that Chipp Walters -- who is not 
only the co-chair of RevCon West in Monterey June 17-18, but is also 
one of the best software designer/developers in our community -- has 
put together an amazing product that will be available FREE to all 
attendees of the conference. Just in time to nudge you over the line 
of deciding whether to take advantage of our generous $70 savings on a 
conference admission (which expires Friday, April 15), he comes up 
with a must-have tool and tosses it into the mix of what you get for 
joining us in Monterey.

He calls it Interface Designer, but I'd call it Interface Magician. 
It's a palette with which you can turn your plain-old, 
ordinary-looking stacks with standard colors and control schemes into 
the kinds of user experiences for which Chipp and his company, Altuit, 
have become justifiably famous. It is so easy to use that anyone -- 
even someone like me whose artistic skills stop just short of being 
able to draw straight lines with a ruler -- can turn out 
professionally styled stacks and applications in minutes. LIterally.

Chipp will put this product on sale some time after the conference. He 
hasn't yet set a price but if he listens to me (which he does on 
occasion), it'll cost more than 1/3 of the Early Bird price of $125 
for the conference.

Get it on this one now, folks. It's going to change fundamentally the 
way customers and users respond to your applications. Go to the Web 
site (http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest) and sign up before 
the deadline for Early Bird expires on FRIDAY, APRIL 15.

~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
EARLY BIRD REGISTRATION SAVES $70 AND ENDS APRIL 15!
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A Cool Freebie for RevCon West Attendees (Resend)

[Dan Shafer]

(List...Apologies if this shows up twice. I sent it two hours ago and 
it hasn't shown up yet so I'm guessing the Big Bit Bucket in the Sky is 
smacking its lips after devouring it.)

I am really excited today to announce that Chipp Walters -- who is not 
only the co-chair of RevCon West in Monterey June 17-18, but is also 
one of the best software designer/developers in our community -- has 
put together an amazing product that will be available FREE to all 
attendees of the conference. Just in time to nudge you over the line of 
deciding whether to take advantage of our generous $70 savings on a 
conference admission (which expires Friday, April 15), he comes up with 
a must-have tool and tosses it into the mix of what you get for joining 
us in Monterey.

He calls it Interface Designer, but I'd call it Interface Magician. 
It's a palette with which you can turn your plain-old, ordinary-looking 
stacks with standard colors and control schemes into the kinds of user 
experiences for which Chipp and his company, Altuit, have become 
justifiably famous. It is so easy to use that anyone -- even someone 
like me whose artistic skills stop just short of being able to draw 
straight lines with a ruler -- can turn out professionally styled 
stacks and applications in minutes. LIterally.

Chipp will put this product on sale some time after the conference. He 
hasn't yet set a price but if he listens to me (which he does on 
occasion), it'll cost more than 1/3 of the Early Bird price of $125 for 
the conference.

Get it on this one now, folks. It's going to change fundamentally the 
way customers and users respond to your applications. Go to the Web 
site (http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest) and sign up before 
the deadline for Early Bird expires on FRIDAY, APRIL 15.

~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
EARLY BIRD REGISTRATION SAVES $70 AND ENDS APRIL 15!
~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

I didn't know the RunRev Marketing guy's name was Prosser.
:-D
~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
On Apr 13, 2005, at 8:04 AM, Geoff Canyon wrote:
On Apr 12, 2005, at 1:15 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
Sigh.
On Apr 12, 2005, at 12:41 PM, Bill wrote:
This is the link to the last page of the runrev store:
http://secure.runrev.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?
Where your ebooks are (fairly well hidden).
 PROSSER
 But Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning 
office for the last nine months.

 ARTHUR
 Oh, yes, soon as I heard of this plan, I went straight around to see 
them yesterday afternoon. You hadn’t exactly gone out of your way to 
call much attention to them, had you? Such as maybe telling someone 
about them?

 PROSSER looks more uncomfortable.
 PROSSER
 Well, the plans were on display –
 ARTHUR
 On display? I had to go down to the cellar to find them!
 PROSSER
 That’s the display department.
 ARTHUR
 With a flashlight.
 PROSSER
 Well, the lights had probably gone.
 ARTHUR
 So had the stairs.
 PROSSER
 Er – well – you did find them, didn’t you?
 ARTHUR
 Oh, yes. Yes, I did. The plans were on display, in the bottom of a 
locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory, with a sign on the 
door reading “Beware of the Leopard.”

regards,
Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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A Cool Freebie for RevCon West Attendees

[Dan Shafer]

I am really excited today to announce that Chipp Walters -- who is not 
only the co-chair of RevCon West in Monterey June 17-18, but is also 
one of the best software designer/developers in our community -- has 
put together an amazing product that will be available FREE to all 
attendees of the conference. Just in time to nudge you over the line of 
deciding whether to take advantage of our generous $70 savings on a 
conference admission (which expires Friday, April 15), he comes up with 
a must-have tool and tosses it into the mix of what you get for joining 
us in Monterey.

He calls it Interface Designer, but I'd call it Interface Magician. 
It's a palette with which you can turn your plain-old, ordinary-looking 
stacks with standard colors and control schemes into the kinds of user 
experiences for which Chipp and his company, Altuit, have become 
justifiably famous. It is so easy to use that anyone -- even someone 
like me whose artistic skills stop just short of being able to draw 
straight lines with a ruler -- can turn out professionally styled 
stacks and applications in minutes. LIterally.

Chipp will put this product on sale some time after the conference. He 
hasn't yet set a price but if he listens to me (which he does on 
occasion), it'll cost more than 1/3 of the Early Bird price of $125 for 
the conference.

Get it on this one now, folks. It's going to change fundamentally the 
way customers and users respond to your applications. Go to the Web 
site (http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest) and sign up before 
the deadline for Early Bird expires on FRIDAY, APRIL 15.

~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
EARLY BIRD REGISTRATION SAVES $70 AND ENDS APRIL 15!
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Re: custom prop by 1's?

[Dan Shafer]

Great debugging tip, Richard.
It works on mouseUp in a button, so my guess is that something is 
sending a second preOpenStack handler.

You could test that theory by adding this to the beginning of the 
preOpenStack handler:

   answer the executionContexts
If you see the answer box a second time you know you've found a 
problem, and the executionContexts will tell you where the message 
came from.

~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

I talked tonight with Jan Schenkel, the developer of Quartam Reports. 
He tells me development is definitely proceeding apace. Look for him to 
have something to say on this subject in the next couple of days.

On Apr 12, 2005, at 11:02 AM, Bill wrote:
Quartam reports may never be released
~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: Python and Rev

[Dan Shafer]

How's it feel to be surrounded by one guy?
:-D
Dan
(Interestingly enough, I've been back researching PythonCard again for 
a client who wants an OO solution in an app that has fairly minimal UI 
requirements and doesn't want to buy into the overhead of Java. What 
goes around)

On Apr 12, 2005, at 8:53 PM, Gordon Webster wrote:
It seems there's no escape, they have Dan Shafers
everywhere ...
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Re: Python and Rev

[Dan Shafer]

Apropos of almost nothing but nonetheless intriguing.
I typed "python GUI application" into a search engine (A9.com, which 
uses google) today while doing some research for a client. Guess what 
the first sponsored link that came up was?

Build your own gui applications, interfaces & more. Free trial!
dreamcard.runrev.com
Same thing comes up if I type "Perl GUI application". But NOT if I type 
"GUI application."

Hm.

~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

Sigh.
On Apr 12, 2005, at 12:41 PM, Bill wrote:
This is the link to the last page of the runrev store:
http://secure.runrev.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?
Where your ebooks are (fairly well hidden).
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

The two eBook versions of the chapters on CGI and Properties that I did 
earlier are also available in the online RunRev store.

The printing eBook is the one I'm just finishing now. I expect to 
release it to final editing this week.

When it is ready, it, too, will be available through the RunRev online 
store.

On Apr 12, 2005, at 11:02 AM, Bill wrote:
That link is only to buy your book, not any of your ebooks. I already 
bought
your book. I am especially interested in your ebook on printing as the

Quartam reports may never be released
http://users.telenet.be/quartam//reports/tour/tour_2_1.htm

On 4/12/05 11:45 AM, "Dan Shafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
They're sold at the RunRev site itself.
Go to the main page at http://www.runrev.com and scroll down. The link
is on the left bottom.
On Apr 12, 2005, at 6:53 AM, Bill wrote:
What is the link to the web site where your runrev ebooks are sold...
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

They're sold at the RunRev site itself.
Go to the main page at http://www.runrev.com and scroll down. The link 
is on the left bottom.

On Apr 12, 2005, at 6:53 AM, Bill wrote:
What is the link to the web site where your runrev ebooks are sold...
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

I might include such a list, perhaps annotated, as an appendix, but 
without covering usage.

On Apr 12, 2005, at 12:36 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:
a third party products list would be useful but it's another job... 
off the topic.

~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

More than I care to count. And no.
:-D
On Apr 12, 2005, at 12:26 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
You won't even throw in a plug for altPlugins? I mean, how many times 
has altArchive saved your skin;-)

~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

The "in principle" argument is simple. The unadorned, unenhanced IDE is 
the common denominator that needs documenting. Third-party tools should 
be documented by their developers, not in a general-usage IDE document. 
There are several completely alternate IDEs running around out there. I 
think the basic need is for documenting what comes with Rev out of the 
box.

~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

On Apr 11, 2005, at 4:07 PM, Jerry Balzano wrote:
Count me in as an interested party as well, although I have to say 
that $15 seems a little steep.  The various "Take Control" books for 
various facets of Mac OS X, many of which are over 100 pages in 
length, are all $10 or less, and several are only $5.

If you sell a few thousand or even a few hundred copies of an eBook, 
you can price it lower than you can if you expect to sell a few dozen 
or at most 100. Rev's installed base being what it is (no, I don't know 
what it is; they won't tell anyone, even me, which is good business but 
no less annoying for that), I have to figure a higher price point to 
have even a remote chance of being paid a reasonable hourly rate for my 
effort.

Do add the message box (perhaps including SoSmart's very nice Message 
Picker) and its various "modes" among your topic list.

The Message Box will be included. No third party products will.
Thanks,
JerryB
~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

Bill...
Thanks. I will. I'm tinkering with format ideas anyway at the moment.
Dan
On Apr 10, 2005, at 6:00 PM, Bill wrote:
Dan:
Look at the format and design of the maranGraphics books 
www.idgbooks.com
that are called Visual "Read Less, Learn More". They are also a 
collection
of screen shots with very clear graphics and formatting.

Bill
On 4/10/05 3:22 PM, "Dan Shafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As I have been participating in this list the past couple of weeks, I
have (like everyone else) noticed another significant round of concern
about the paucity of documentation on the Rev IDE. As I am now within 
a
day or two of finishing my next promised eBooklet on printing in Rev,
I've decided to take the pulse of the community on the demand for a
book on the  IDE as my next eBook project.

My intent is to describe the IDE functionally, perhaps in a manner 
that
looks like the Peachpit Press "Visual QuickStart Guides", i.e., a huge
number of screen shots with annotated call-outs and associated notes.

So, step one. Please let me know either off-list 
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
or here if you'd be interested in purchasing such an eBook if it were
available for immediate download at a price of, say, $15. If it seems
there's enough interest, I'll move this up on my list.

Meanwhile, there are a couple of topics proposed for inclusion in
RevCon West June 17-18 in Monterey on the IDE. If you want to: (a) 
save
$70 on the price of admission; (b) vote for IDE-related topics to be
included on the agenda; and (c) attend what is shaping up to be the
biggest Rev developer gathering ever, please go to the Web site in my
sig below. The $70 Early Bird Discount ends Friday, April 15.

~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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|||
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  )___))___))___)\
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   _|||\\\__
---\   /- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
 ^ ^
     ^^^^^
     ^^^
24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (787) 809-8426
Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 91
Puerto Real, PR 00740

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New Guide to the IDE in Process

[Dan Shafer]

As I have been participating in this list the past couple of weeks, I 
have (like everyone else) noticed another significant round of concern 
about the paucity of documentation on the Rev IDE. As I am now within a 
day or two of finishing my next promised eBooklet on printing in Rev, 
I've decided to take the pulse of the community on the demand for a 
book on the  IDE as my next eBook project.

My intent is to describe the IDE functionally, perhaps in a manner that 
looks like the Peachpit Press "Visual QuickStart Guides", i.e., a huge 
number of screen shots with annotated call-outs and associated notes.

So, step one. Please let me know either off-list ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
or here if you'd be interested in purchasing such an eBook if it were 
available for immediate download at a price of, say, $15. If it seems 
there's enough interest, I'll move this up on my list.

Meanwhile, there are a couple of topics proposed for inclusion in 
RevCon West June 17-18 in Monterey on the IDE. If you want to: (a) save 
$70 on the price of admission; (b) vote for IDE-related topics to be 
included on the agenda; and (c) attend what is shaping up to be the 
biggest Rev developer gathering ever, please go to the Web site in my 
sig below. The $70 Early Bird Discount ends Friday, April 15.

~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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RevCon West Ballots Mailed

[Dan Shafer]

If you are one of the wise and intelligent folks who have already 
signed up for the $70 price savings for the upcoming RevCon West 
conference, check your email box. You should have received this morning 
an email from me listing the candidate topics for inclusion in the 
conference. Chipp and I really want your feedback on these topics. Only 
Early Bird registrants will have this opportunity. If you signed up and 
don't receive this email today, please let me know and I'll straighten 
the situation out immediately.

Now, if you're reading this and you INTEND to sign up for Early Bird 
registration to save $70 and get to help shape the conference, check 
your calendar. You have exactly one week to get your registration in. 
The June 17-18 conference in beautiful coastal Monterey, California, 
will be information-packed and fun-filled. You're not going to want to 
miss it. Trust me on this.

Details are at http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest. You can 
sign up with PayPal right on the site.

Looking forward to seeing lots of Revolutionaries in June in Monterey!
~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: Seperate numbers from text

[Dan Shafer]

Great place for a regular expression. I don't know how to *write* it 
mind you, but it's probably the solution.

On Apr 5, 2005, at 7:55 PM, Dwayne Rothe wrote:
Is there a way to seperate numbers from text in a string?
e.g "string69" to return 69 or "string69also" to return 69
Is it possible to filter somehow?
~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: [ann] vObject Package Pre-Release (vCard and iCalendar)

[Dan Shafer]

Strange. It downloaded fine for me.
On Apr 5, 2005, at 7:18 PM, Bill wrote:
When I
go url "http://www.soapdog.org/vObjectPackage.rev";
I get:
stack is corrupted, check for ~ backup file
~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: ANN: Successor to IdeaFisher: eXpertSystem ships...

[Dan Shafer]

Chipp.
Sounds like a good session at RevConWest.
On Apr 5, 2005, at 12:21 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
Most interesting in the development was the integration of 
MagicCarpet's 'Auto-updating' delivery system, which enabled the 
client to see realtime results each time they launched eXs-- as it 
updated to reflect the current changes. Another interesting point is 
it was developed 99% on PC's and they only had Macs:-). We've tried 
this 'realtime' approach before with much less success, as it takes a 
very special client to understand they are not always looking at 
'finished' software.
~~~~~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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