Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Again, sigh, this is irrelevant. This is so off the topic and the point. How you could think this is relevant is truly a mystery. On 3/24/06, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dakota Jack wrote: I flat don't believe this. Who, what, where, when, etc? This isn't me (although I did fix an essentially identical bug in an internal webapp at Morgan Stanley (who), an Action instance variable (what), in Morristown (where), spring 2004 (when), because they paid me (why), by putting the data into a synchronized map (how) although I believe eventually they changed the structure of the app to eliminate the need for that (it was a quick fix for an emergency problem: this works almost all the time, but under load we occasionally get corrupted data-a-thon). http://www.thedailywtf.com/ Today's is the cost of static. Anybody who thinks anyone should have commit access... feel free to walk around tdwtf, marvel, and pat yourself on the back for being better than some of the stories there (I hope :) Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Turns out you were talking about, as I understand you, code in company as opposed to code on an open source project. This is totally irrelevant. The issue is not whether there are people who make mistakes in companies. The issue is about open source. Those are not the same. So, do you have any experience, as you suggested, with the relevant matter, viz., open source, as indicated? As to the rest, so far as I can tell, you are the troll, my friend. On 3/24/06, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dakota Jack wrote: I flat don't believe this. Who, what, where, when, etc? Uh... you're saying you don't believe I've managed and/or worked on large projects at large companies? Or you're saying that you don't believe that I've had (occasionally _substantial_) issues with sub-standard coders having commit rights to said projects (which I would think is a no-brainer)? (Two good ones pop immediately to mind: why is the laser printer printing everything as a mirror image? Hint: it's not a printer setting, and it's somewhere in that 1.2 million lines of C and C++ code. Why does Beavis occasionally hover 8-16 pixels above the ground under certain pad inputs combined with one of two specific moving obstacles? That's somewhere in 16K of self-modifying Z80 assembly language. Ooo, how about trying to fix a 300-line lisp macro written by somebody else that really didn't know lisp? Or the completely undocumented 64K of 8051 assembly and C pump control system that wanted a pressure compensation algorithm but it was kind of hard to tell which of the multi-processors you needed to add the code to? Or the cereal boxer written in Forth that would occasionally (think 8-bit overflow) shoot cereal more or less everywhere?) NOT EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE COMMIT ACCESS. Non-trivial things can happen when they do. Either way, why on EARTH would I give a shit what you think? I've been doing this for 20 years in essentially every major software field there is (and about 10 years non-professionally before that) and somehow I've managed not to alienate nearly every user of this list and still be a pretty good programmer. Somehow I manage to not threaten people with lawsuits if they call me a name. Tell me why I should care what you think, 'cuz I'm having problems with this one. And for those of you flooding me with don't feed the troll emails, I know... but now Dakota Jack is directly questioning my honesty and my history, which I do _not_ take kindly to. I am many, many things, not all good, but a person who does not speak the truth is not among those things. I spend most of my non-computer time in a dojo where them's fightin' words. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
SV: [Shale] Name scoping in Clay
Hi
The method exists on my bean with the correct methodsignature.
I had stolen this from your excellent rolodex example, and there you had
it defined as:
component jsfid=tabs extends=clay id=tabs allowBody=false
attributes
set name=jsfid value=RUNTIME/
set name=managedBeanName value=rolodex$hrolodex/
set name=shapeValidator
value=[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
/attributes
/component
So I thought that I could substitute the hardcoded name with a Clay symbol.
Your solution worked like a charm. Thanks.
I have an improvement to the rolodex createTabs that I want to put forward:
In the Rolodex.java file method createCommandLinkMetadata, you add
parameters to the link. If you need to add more than 1 parameter, you need
to use the renderId, because it is the key into the map. I tried to add
several parameters to no avail until I looked at the Element bean, where it
was stated. In order for others to grasp this more quickly I suggest that
you add do the following to the example:
// create a parameter
ElementBean param = new ElementBean();
param.setJsfid(param);
+ // RenderId is the key to the Map. Increment for each new
parameter
+ param.setRenderId(1);
param.setComponentType(javax.faces.Parameter);
Hermod
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: Gary VanMatre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 25. mars 2006 02:18
Til: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Emne: Re: [Shale] Name scoping in Clay
From: Hermod Opstvedt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi
I have defined a Clay component:
component jsfid=resultattabs extends=clay id=resultattabs
allowBody=false
attributes
set name=jsfid value=RUNTIME/
set name=managedBeanName value=@managed-bean-name/
set name=shapeValidator
value=[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
/attributes
/component
The jsfid attribute should be named clayJsfid. The jsfid here says
that you want to use
the clay component and the clayJsfid is the root component of the subtree
under the
clay component. The special RUNTIME clayJsfid indicates you want to build
the
metadata at runtime.
Another way to do this is to use the binding attribute. You bind a
component to a
managed bean and add to it dynamically. Craig has an example of this in the
sql-browser example application. This approach is tricky if you don't just
delete
the subtree and rebuild it. You will see in the sql-browser example, the
children of the dataTable are cleared in the prerender method of the managed
bean.
http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/struts/shale/trunk/sql-browser/src/java/or
g/apache/shale/examples/sqlbrowser/Query.java?view=markup
The Clay runtime option is similar but the component handles the details of
finding
an existing component versus creating a new one. In the clay method, you
create a graph of objects used to create the JSF component where the binding
method you actually create the components and hook them together.
Where @managed-bean-name is set to the faces defined managed bean
open$arrangement.
I would have thought that Clay would resolve this to for instance
myBean.createTabs, but I am getting an error :
Exception while invoking expression #{open$arrangement.createTabs}
It looks like the symbol is being replaced. The expression show the
open$arrangement substitued for @managed-bean-name. If you
look further down in the stack trace you will most likely seen another
exception, Caused by: java.lang.NoSuchMethodException:.
This shapeValidator method binding signature is the same as
the validator signature.
The confusing part is that this method is invoked in the rendering phase
and not the validation phase. The thought was that by implementing the
method
you are validating the shape of the subtree. I should have choose another
attribute name.
Make sure that your managed bean implements a method with the following
signature:
public void createTabs(javax.faces.context.FacesContext context,
javax.faces.component.UIComponent component,
java.lang.Object displayElementRoot) {
Hermod
Gary
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SV: [shale] Best practice for passing information between views in Shale
Hi 1. Thanks, I looked at Gary's Rolodex example, and the QueryParam valueholder seems like another way of doing it. This also allows for moving between arbitrary pages. Not quite JSFish though. 2. I think that the t:saveState might be what I want here. Hermod -Opprinnelig melding- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne av Craig McClanahan Sendt: 25. mars 2006 03:22 Til: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emne: Re: [shale] Best practice for passing information between views in Shale On 3/24/06, Hermod Opstvedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I have scenario where information on one page is used a basis for another page. What would be best practice for transferring information from page1 to page2, where both pages are request scoped. Declaring this as a dialog flow, or using a session scoped bean as a value holder? There's a few options, including the ones below. Let's call the page that processed the form submit page1 and the one to be rendered as page2. * Define a public property on page1's backing bean, store the info there, and code page2's backing bean (or binding expressions) to call it. This works, but has a significant disadvantage -- it works only when going from page1 to page2, but not page3 to page2. * Similar to the first solution, but put the public property on page2 instead of on page1. There is still a coupling disadvantage, but you can at least get to page2 from multiple origins. * Use a dialog state. Quite nice for this, but pretty complex to set up if all you need is to pass the data along. * Use an arbitrary request attribute. This is more typical of what you'd do in non-JSF applications, and works fine. To put something into these attributes with key foo, you'd do: getExternalContext().getRequestMap().put(foo, bar); NOTE - i'm evaluating ways to emulate what Ruby on Rails does with the flash concept to address the need it for one more request, but could perhaps also help for this scenario in the current request. Another goes for maintaining state between accesses to the same page. Using hidden inputfields or a session scoped bean as a value holder? Both of those work ... the JSF-ish way to do the hidden input field would be an h:inputHidden component. If you're using MyFaces, you should also check out t:saveState for this. Hermod Craig - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
I don't think you see, Steve, that this sardonic cuteness misses the whole point. While you seem to think you have it all going on, this in fact is inane. No one in their right mind without some political in or position would take much time to contribute to Struts, because the process is completely bankrupt. On 3/24/06, Steve Raeburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an idea. Why don't we publish the source code to Struts so that absolutely anyone can contribute to the project. You are right that we'll need a review process for all those contributions. So why don't we require all incoming code to be reviewed by at least one experienced developer before it is added to the code base. After a while, developers will earn a level of trust and we can relax the review requirement to only happen after the code is updated. Thanks for the advice. We should implement this new process right away. Steve Jonathan Revusky wrote: Dave Newton wrote: Dakota Jack wrote: I flat don't believe this. Who, what, where, when, etc? This isn't me (although I did fix an essentially identical bug in an internal webapp at Morgan Stanley (who), an Action instance variable (what), in Morristown (where), spring 2004 (when), because they paid me (why), by putting the data into a synchronized map (how) although I believe eventually they changed the structure of the app to eliminate the need for that (it was a quick fix for an emergency problem: this works almost all the time, but under load we occasionally get corrupted data-a-thon). http://www.thedailywtf.com/ Today's is the cost of static. I just visited the above link and read the article and I don't see how this can be presented as evidence against a more open collaborative model. Basically it's the story of a bug. Somebody made a mistake. People will make mistakes regardless. Also, the bug occurred, as far as I can see, in a closed source commercial codebase, so it's not clear to me how this is relevant at all. I have said repeatedly at this point that I assume that code committed by newbie committers would be reviewed. In principle, a bug like the one described in that article would be caught at that point. But another point about this is that having more people in the code could decrease the mean life expectancy of such bugs because of the phenomenon of more eyeballs. Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ Anybody who thinks anyone should have commit access... feel free to walk around tdwtf, marvel, and pat yourself on the back for being better than some of the stories there (I hope :) Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Good God, Michael, he was trying to be sarcastic and only reached sardonic but fooled you. Do you actually think a lightbulb like Raeburn would be agreeing with Revusky? Don't you realize that Raeburn is another one of DOH bunch? On 3/24/06, Michael Jouravlev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/24/06, Steve Raeburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an idea. Why don't we publish the source code to Struts so that absolutely anyone can contribute to the project. You are right that we'll need a review process for all those contributions. So why don't we require all incoming code to be reviewed by at least one experienced developer before it is added to the code base. After a while, developers will earn a level of trust and we can relax the review requirement to only happen after the code is updated. Thanks for the advice. We should implement this new process right away. Steve Does not it work like this already? Someone opens up a Bugzilla ticket and puts up code. Then a committer verifies it and commits it. Well, if there is a committer who finds the code at all worthy ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
I could not bear the thought of having some of these committers talk about my code when they have trouble with the English language, much less Java. On 3/24/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Jouravlev wrote: On 3/24/06, Steve Raeburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have an idea. Why don't we publish the source code to Struts so that absolutely anyone can contribute to the project. You are right that we'll need a review process for all those contributions. So why don't we require all incoming code to be reviewed by at least one experienced developer before it is added to the code base. After a while, developers will earn a level of trust and we can relax the review requirement to only happen after the code is updated. Thanks for the advice. We should implement this new process right away. Steve Does not it work like this already? Someone opens up a Bugzilla ticket and puts up code. Then a committer verifies it and commits it. Well, if there is a committer who finds the code at all worthy ;-) Or that there is a committer who actually looks at it... :-) Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ FreeMarker group blog, http://freemarker.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
This is going to be one of my all time favorites. Brought a HUGE grin to my face. snip On 3/24/06, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have no publicly-accessible open-source projects. /snip -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
The fact is that there will not be an explanation for this failure. While sitting in the biggest pile of crap code one could imagine, they continue to extoll their virtues as if they were about to be mentioned for an honorarium in computer history. snip On 3/24/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Raeburn wrote: Bottom line is that this is the way Apache works and it's not going to change. In any case, it is not a subject of legitimate debate at this point that progress on the Struts framework stagnated. If you guys were doing everything right, then what is your explanation for that? Jonathan Revusky /snip -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: Struts Tutorial
It is Struts that is confused, not this person. If you are smart, go elsewhere where things are not this nuts. On 3/24/06, James Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as products, right now there is Action and Shale. Most people familiar with Action might just say 'Struts' and there isn't usually a misunderstanding. I suppose the same confusion exists when someone says 'Apache'. Do you mean the organization or the server? -- James Mitchell EdgeTech, Inc. http://edgetechservices.net/ 678.910.8017 Skype: jmitchtx On Mar 24, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Dave Newton wrote: Andreas wrote: Hi, I'm a newbie in Struts so I'm looking for a struts tutorial on the net. Which Struts? See, I don't like that I have to ask that question, and on this I completely agree with Jonathon etc. :P Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Using the nocache attribute of the tag controller in struts-config.xml
Hello, I'm trying to set the nocache attribute of the tag controller of the struts-config.xml to false so that my JSP pages won't be cached by either IE or Firefox but to no avail. I've also included the following script to the mainlayout.jsp file from which all my JSP files extend: My application also use Hibernate and Tiles. Could it be that it's not possible to disable the caching of the JSP pages when using Tiles? Regards. Broadband interface (RIA) + mail box saftey = http://Struts_User_List.roomity.com *Your* clubs, no sign up to read, ad supported; try broadband internet.
Re: View Not Correctly Being Indexed by searchengines.
Sessionid's can cause problems, some spiders understand ;jsessionid=[the id] is part of the url. Therefore everytime the bot comes around it thinks its a different page. The usual thing to do is remove sessionid for spiders. Attention needs to be paid in case the application depends on the session is any way, but thats rarely the case with product pages.. Mark On 3/25/06, Jim Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I created a ecommerce site using struts and opened it up about 6 months ago. Ever since its inception, I have had trouble getting my site indexed by google, or any other searchengine. I am using servlet mapping of .do. I cannot understand for my life, but it appears that when the robots see a link for something like: http://www.mysite.com/context/welcome.do that it does not actually call the page, which calls welcome.jsp which is where my metas are. (But If I call that link from a browser, of course the page shows). I can source it, and see all my metas. Is this a struts problem, or a MVC problem with searchengines? So in desperation, I purchased a product today called WebPosition, and started pointing to my pages like http://www.mysite.com/context/welcome.do and it says I do not even have a title. It does not see the .jsp page that struts forwards to. Does anyone have any explanation why this is occuring? Anyone give me pointers how to resolve this. I am getting desperate and could use a hand. Sincerely - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: View Not Correctly Being Indexed by searchengines.
Here's something you may find handy http://tuckey.org/urlrewrite/manual/2.6/guide.html outbound-rule encodefirst=true condition name=user-agentgooglebot.*/condition from^(.*);jsessionid=.*(\?.*)$/from to$1$2/to /outbound-rule On 3/25/06, Mark Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sessionid's can cause problems, some spiders understand ;jsessionid=[the id] is part of the url. Therefore everytime the bot comes around it thinks its a different page. The usual thing to do is remove sessionid for spiders. Attention needs to be paid in case the application depends on the session is any way, but thats rarely the case with product pages.. Mark On 3/25/06, Jim Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I created a ecommerce site using struts and opened it up about 6 months ago. Ever since its inception, I have had trouble getting my site indexed by google, or any other searchengine. I am using servlet mapping of .do. I cannot understand for my life, but it appears that when the robots see a link for something like: http://www.mysite.com/context/welcome.do that it does not actually call the page, which calls welcome.jsp which is where my metas are. (But If I call that link from a browser, of course the page shows). I can source it, and see all my metas. Is this a struts problem, or a MVC problem with searchengines? So in desperation, I purchased a product today called WebPosition, and started pointing to my pages like http://www.mysite.com/context/welcome.do and it says I do not even have a title. It does not see the .jsp page that struts forwards to. Does anyone have any explanation why this is occuring? Anyone give me pointers how to resolve this. I am getting desperate and could use a hand. Sincerely - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
I normally ignore your crap and I'm sorry for prolonging this agony for everyone. This really will be my last word. Michael, why do you continue to waste your time on such a big pile of crap as Struts? What kind of a fool must you be for using the world's worst web framework, run by a bunch on idiotic dictators? If you really believe that, then you are as big a loser as you appear to be. If you think you can do better, then fine, go do it. But please, quit whining and doing nothing about it. Or do you just enjoy whining? Please. Get a life. Steve p.s. Don't bother addressing any reply to me. You'll just be pissing in the wind. Dakota Jack wrote: The fact is that there will not be an explanation for this failure. While sitting in the biggest pile of crap code one could imagine, they continue to extoll their virtues as if they were about to be mentioned for an honorarium in computer history. snip On 3/24/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Raeburn wrote: Bottom line is that this is the way Apache works and it's not going to change. In any case, it is not a subject of legitimate debate at this point that progress on the Struts framework stagnated. If you guys were doing everything right, then what is your explanation for that? Jonathan Revusky /snip -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Steve Raeburn wrote: I normally ignore your crap and I'm sorry for prolonging this agony for everyone. This really will be my last word. Michael, why do you continue to waste your time on such a big pile of crap as Struts? What kind of a fool must you be for using the world's worst web framework, run by a bunch on idiotic dictators? Steve, do you realize that a lot of rank-and-file people out there don't have a choice about what tools they use in their daily paid work? For example, Patrick Lightbody, currently lead developer of the Webwork project, was using Struts in his day job for a good while. I recall this from looking at this blog. When he wrote this Struts Really Sucks blog entry, http://blogs.opensymphony.com/plightbo/2003/10/webwork_docaday_struts_really.html he knew whereof he spoke. He had quite intimate knowledge of Struts from having to use it at work. If he'd had the choice in that day job, he surely would have been using Webwork. I remember at one point lurking on the Tapestry list a bit (a few years back) and Howard Lewis Ship (Mr. Tapestry himself) mentioned that he was using Struts in his day-job and finding it quite frustrating. If Howard had had the choice, he surely would have used Tapestry. Anyway, you really ought to answer the question I posed earlier. Why, in your opinion, did Struts development stagnate? Surely you have thought about this Regards, Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ If you really believe that, then you are as big a loser as you appear to be. If you think you can do better, then fine, go do it. But please, quit whining and doing nothing about it. Or do you just enjoy whining? Please. Get a life. Steve p.s. Don't bother addressing any reply to me. You'll just be pissing in the wind. Dakota Jack wrote: The fact is that there will not be an explanation for this failure. While sitting in the biggest pile of crap code one could imagine, they continue to extoll their virtues as if they were about to be mentioned for an honorarium in computer history. snip On 3/24/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Raeburn wrote: Bottom line is that this is the way Apache works and it's not going to change. In any case, it is not a subject of legitimate debate at this point that progress on the Struts framework stagnated. If you guys were doing everything right, then what is your explanation for that? Jonathan Revusky /snip -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Steven- A multi-threaded enterprise wide solution that is organised according to true Model View Controller paradigm is NOT a pile of crap nor is anything else you dont understand- I would strongly suggest you think about all of the hard work and effort that the commiters and people on this list put into the product which is offered to us lowly developers basically for free In the meanwhile I would also strongly suggest you read everything you can about Software Architecture and Design so that you will be able to propose an alternative but If you have no alternative then opening your ears and listening to how can we make our system more maintainable while accomodating enterpise wide needs for our customers would be a constructive use of your time Martin- - Original Message - From: Steve Raeburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List user@struts.apache.org Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:33 AM Subject: Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation I normally ignore your crap and I'm sorry for prolonging this agony for everyone. This really will be my last word. Michael, why do you continue to waste your time on such a big pile of crap as Struts? What kind of a fool must you be for using the world's worst web framework, run by a bunch on idiotic dictators? If you really believe that, then you are as big a loser as you appear to be. If you think you can do better, then fine, go do it. But please, quit whining and doing nothing about it. Or do you just enjoy whining? Please. Get a life. Steve p.s. Don't bother addressing any reply to me. You'll just be pissing in the wind. Dakota Jack wrote: The fact is that there will not be an explanation for this failure. While sitting in the biggest pile of crap code one could imagine, they continue to extoll their virtues as if they were about to be mentioned for an honorarium in computer history. snip On 3/24/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Raeburn wrote: Bottom line is that this is the way Apache works and it's not going to change. In any case, it is not a subject of legitimate debate at this point that progress on the Struts framework stagnated. If you guys were doing everything right, then what is your explanation for that? Jonathan Revusky /snip -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Dave Newton wrote: Jonathan Revusky wrote: snip I have no publicly-accessible open-source projects. If I did, I would not give commit access to anybody that asked for it, because I do not have the time to review the contributions of others and do not trust J. Random Coder enough to assume that they'll do the Right Thing, because in general, most people aren't very good programmers. The whole idea that, when you give somebody commit privileges, that they just go beserk committing all kinds of code of questionable quality -- this is just not something that really happens. I recognize that it could happen. Also it could happen that you give commit privileges to someone who is outright malicious. However, the latter would be so infrequent really that, IMO, it's not an issue. If a wandering serial saboteur -- the Ted Bundy of open source coding, if you will -- happens to get involved in your project, well, I would attribute that to inordinate bad luck, maybe like walking down the street and getting struck by lightning. Possible, but so unlikely that it does not condition your decision making. What usually happens is that people sound all enthusiastic about doing stuff and then, when they have the commit access, they simply do nothing. That is what happens easily the vast majority of times. People overestimate the time they can devote to something. They underestimate the investment that it is to really get their heads around the code. When people do start using their commit privileges they are usually quite timid about it initially and initiate discussion on your list prior to doing anything remotely controversial. People typically start off doing very small localized things. And these things are not very time consuming for the more established people on the team to review. One thing that would be possible is to encourage people to get their legs by doing things like working on unit tests and javadoc comments and so on. Most projects, unfortunately, have too little of both of those things and letting people in to initially work on that is quite low risk. That would provide a way for poeople to gradually get into the swing of things. I think that any people managing an open source project have to be thinking about how to get new blood into the project. Again, YMMV, and hopefully has! If you have, that's great, and I'm glad it's working for you, and I hope it continues to. It's not just working for me. It's working for a lot of people. A lot of people use FreeMarker, you know. That's a pretty small sample size, but good :) Be that as it may, apparently it's infinitely greater than your experience running open source projects. Anyway, this is getting sterile. I've made my point. It is my considered view that this idea that the ability to commit code is something that needs to be this zealously guarded is not well founded. Probably a project like Struts would benefit from drastically lowering the bar to becoming a committer. The problem is that they've created this political structure where they've defined committers as people with political power and non-committers as people with no political power and so it has to do with a certain clique retaining their power. It has basically nothing to do with guarding the quality of the code. Actually, it is probable that being politically correct (less likely to disagree with the current clique) is a greater factor in becoming a committer than coding prowess is. Regards, Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ FreeMarker group blog, http://freemarker.blogspot.com/ Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Dynamic DynaActionForms
Maybe you can leverage the LazyActionForm: http://struts.apache.org/struts-action/userGuide/building_controller.html#lazy_action_form_classes Hubert On 3/24/06, Will Hartung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simply put I have a need for a configurable form that can have any mixture of fields on it including, specifically, file uploads. Seems to me that the DynaActionForm would be the way to go about this, however, they're defined in struts-config. Clearly, struts already has all of the code to convert an HTML request in to a DynaActionForm, so I'd rather not reinvent that wheel if possible. Now it seems to me that I should be able to simply instantiate my own DynaActionForm that has all of the properties that coincedently looks like the form that's being submitted. Has anyone done something like this? I've been playing with trying to instatiate an DynaActionForm using some hand made FormPropertyConfig's, and then calling DynaFormAction.initialize(FormConfigBean), but I'm getting some null pointer exceptions, so I'm obviously missing something. I'd also like to intercept the form creation process to make the DynaActionForm on the fly during the request pipeline and, ideally, stuff the form in the Request scope where it belongs. Right now I have to stuff it in to the Session using an Action before the page is displayed, but obviously this won't work if there is the potential for more than one form to exist. So, anyway, has anyone tried to leverage the Struts pipeline to create on the fly DynaActionForms so you could leverage all of the built in Struts facilities? Has anyone ever successfully created a DynaActionForm directly rather than using the struts-config file? Thanx! Regards, Will Hartung ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Dakota Jack wrote: This is going to be one of my all time favorites. Brought a HUGE grin to my face. Weird, but okay. If you are addressing the apparent dichotomy with publicly-accessible and open-source then you probably just don't know very much, but I'll talk slowly, as there are two different reasons I chose to risk you being an asshole: 1) Open-source roots, multiplicity of commiters, not-yet-released (and, I suppose, may never be at this point, but who knows) 2) Pre-released, ground-up effort Multiple projects, unknown future. Labeled as open-source but relatively small community and for the forseeable future (3-6 months?) nothing will be publicly available. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Dakota Jack wrote: While sitting in the biggest pile of crap code one could imagine, Oo, heavens no. Maybe you haven't seen much code, but believe me: it gets much, much, MUCH worse. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Dakota Jack wrote: As to the rest, so far as I can tell, you are the troll, my friend. *rotflmao* And I am most certainly NOT your friend. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Struts Tutorial
Dakota Jack wrote: If you are smart, go elsewhere where things are not this nuts. *ponder* Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Mark Lowe wrote: May I +1000 what steve said, I'm all for a bit of digression, but this thread has narrowed the sematic gap between to post and to smear.. What smear? Do you mean smear as in slander? Could you be more explicit about this? I think you ought to clarify what you mean by that statement or retract it. I asked Steve Raeburn the same question I have asked before. The question is as follows: If your project management practices are so great, how come Struts development stagnated to such an extent? The stagnation is not a matter of legitimate debate now. They have had to bring in Webwork, a competing project developed outside of ASF, so that they could have something more up-to-date to offer under the Struts brand-name. Why should I not ask that question? Because these people find it embarassing? Well, that's tough cookies, eh? Is that what you're talking about when you say a smear? I'm satisfied that this is a completely fair question. It's also a tough question, but it's 100% fair and it's 100% on-topic to this discussion. I don't see any reason for these people to refuse to answer it. It's a natural question when people insist that their approach to project management is beyond reproach. Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Look.. You've been invited to post your thoughts about the way that apache do stuff, to a more appropiate audience than a bunch of half-wit struts users like me.. I was using smear more in the context of to soil You might have a point, you might not, you could be the next pope for all i care.. Let the thread die.. What do you want? Everyone to say.. Yes jonathon you're correct, freemarker is the best because you're involved and it employs a more open policy in respect to commit privledges .. What do you want people to say? Okay,.. You're my hero!! Jonathan is king!!! Anything else? I surrender, I'll say whatever you want, your insesent ascii diarrhea has beaten us all into submission Anything else you want me to say to stop this thread just say!!! I'll do whatever you want!!! Please just tell me what i can do.. Mark On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Lowe wrote: May I +1000 what steve said, I'm all for a bit of digression, but this thread has narrowed the sematic gap between to post and to smear.. What smear? Do you mean smear as in slander? Could you be more explicit about this? I think you ought to clarify what you mean by that statement or retract it. I asked Steve Raeburn the same question I have asked before. The question is as follows: If your project management practices are so great, how come Struts development stagnated to such an extent? The stagnation is not a matter of legitimate debate now. They have had to bring in Webwork, a competing project developed outside of ASF, so that they could have something more up-to-date to offer under the Struts brand-name. Why should I not ask that question? Because these people find it embarassing? Well, that's tough cookies, eh? Is that what you're talking about when you say a smear? I'm satisfied that this is a completely fair question. It's also a tough question, but it's 100% fair and it's 100% on-topic to this discussion. I don't see any reason for these people to refuse to answer it. It's a natural question when people insist that their approach to project management is beyond reproach. Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Mark Lowe wrote: Look.. You've been invited to post your thoughts about the way that apache do stuff, to a more appropiate audience than a bunch of half-wit struts users like me.. Mark, I was involved in a conversation with various people. It so happens that the conversation developed here. What I'm wondering about all this is the following: Suppose you went to some meeting, let's say a Struts Users Group meeting. I'm talking about a non-virtual setting. At this meeting, various people get involved in a discussion, maybe even a passionate, heated discussion about something like this. Under what circumstances would you butt into a conversation other people were having and start loudly telling one or more of those people to shut up? I mean in a situation in which you were not even part of the discussion even. I would bet that you never would behave like this, because this would be outrageous, uncouth behavior. If you're not interested in what they're talking about, simply wander off and have some other interaction. The fact that these people are having whatever discussion does not cause you any particular inconvenience or problem. Similarly, nobody forces you to follow every conversation that is going on in this forum. Now, if you think the above behavior is unacceptable in the non-virtual meeting, why do you think it's acceptable here? You take it upon yourself to jump into a conversation in which you were not even participating and tell people to shut up. Please explain why you think this is acceptable. I was using smear more in the context of to soil You might have a point, you might not, you could be the next pope for all i care.. Let the thread die.. What do you want? Everyone to say.. Yes jonathon you're correct, freemarker is the best because you're involved and it employs a more open policy in respect to commit privledges .. What do you want people to say? As I said before, I posed a question. It was not a smarmy sarcastic question like that of James Mitchell asking me where my patch for the front web page was. I simply asked a straightforward question about why Struts development had stagnated if all the project management practices were so great. This is a completely fair and relevant question in the context of the discussion that developed. I asked the question because I truly was interested to know what their answer would be. I still don't know since nobody has answered the question. Again, why should I not ask this question? In what way is it a smear for me to ask this question? And again, I will be fascinated to know why you think your behavior in butting into a conversation in which you were not a participant is at all acceptable. Maybe you should step back and think about this a bit. Regards, Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ Okay,.. You're my hero!! Jonathan is king!!! Anything else? I surrender, I'll say whatever you want, your insesent ascii diarrhea has beaten us all into submission Anything else you want me to say to stop this thread just say!!! I'll do whatever you want!!! Please just tell me what i can do.. Mark On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Lowe wrote: May I +1000 what steve said, I'm all for a bit of digression, but this thread has narrowed the sematic gap between to post and to smear.. What smear? Do you mean smear as in slander? Could you be more explicit about this? I think you ought to clarify what you mean by that statement or retract it. I asked Steve Raeburn the same question I have asked before. The question is as follows: If your project management practices are so great, how come Struts development stagnated to such an extent? The stagnation is not a matter of legitimate debate now. They have had to bring in Webwork, a competing project developed outside of ASF, so that they could have something more up-to-date to offer under the Struts brand-name. Why should I not ask that question? Because these people find it embarassing? Well, that's tough cookies, eh? Is that what you're talking about when you say a smear? I'm satisfied that this is a completely fair question. It's also a tough question, but it's 100% fair and it's 100% on-topic to this discussion. I don't see any reason for these people to refuse to answer it. It's a natural question when people insist that their approach to project management is beyond reproach. Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Lowe wrote: Look.. You've been invited to post your thoughts about the way that apache do stuff, to a more appropiate audience than a bunch of half-wit struts users like me.. Mark, I was involved in a conversation with various people. It so happens that the conversation developed here. What I'm wondering about all this is the following: Suppose you went to some meeting, let's say a Struts Users Group meeting. I'm talking about a non-virtual setting. At this meeting, various people get involved in a discussion, maybe even a passionate, heated discussion about something like this. Under what circumstances would you butt into a conversation other people were having and start loudly telling one or more of those people to shut up? I mean in a situation in which you were not even part of the discussion even. I would bet that you never would behave like this, because this would be outrageous, uncouth behavior. If you're not interested in what they're talking about, simply wander off and have some other interaction. The fact that these people are having whatever discussion does not cause you any particular inconvenience or problem. Similarly, nobody forces you to follow every conversation that is going on in this forum. Now, if you think the above behavior is unacceptable in the non-virtual meeting, why do you think it's acceptable here? You take it upon yourself to jump into a conversation in which you were not even participating and tell people to shut up. Please explain why you think this is acceptable. I was using smear more in the context of to soil You might have a point, you might not, you could be the next pope for all i care.. Let the thread die.. What do you want? Everyone to say.. Yes jonathon you're correct, freemarker is the best because you're involved and it employs a more open policy in respect to commit privledges .. What do you want people to say? As I said before, I posed a question. It was not a smarmy sarcastic question like that of James Mitchell asking me where my patch for the front web page was. I simply asked a straightforward question about why Struts development had stagnated if all the project management practices were so great. This is a completely fair and relevant question in the context of the discussion that developed. I asked the question because I truly was interested to know what their answer would be. I still don't know since nobody has answered the question. Again, why should I not ask this question? In what way is it a smear for me to ask this question? And again, I will be fascinated to know why you think your behavior in butting into a conversation in which you were not a participant is at all acceptable. Maybe you should step back and think about this a bit. Regards, Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ Okay,.. You're my hero!! Jonathan is king!!! Anything else? I surrender, I'll say whatever you want, your insesent ascii diarrhea has beaten us all into submission Anything else you want me to say to stop this thread just say!!! I'll do whatever you want!!! Please just tell me what i can do.. Mark On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Lowe wrote: May I +1000 what steve said, I'm all for a bit of digression, but this thread has narrowed the sematic gap between to post and to smear.. What smear? Do you mean smear as in slander? Could you be more explicit about this? I think you ought to clarify what you mean by that statement or retract it. I asked Steve Raeburn the same question I have asked before. The question is as follows: If your project management practices are so great, how come Struts development stagnated to such an extent? The stagnation is not a matter of legitimate debate now. They have had to bring in Webwork, a competing project developed outside of ASF, so that they could have something more up-to-date to offer under the Struts brand-name. Why should I not ask that question? Because these people find it embarassing? Well, that's tough cookies, eh? Is that what you're talking about when you say a smear? I'm satisfied that this is a completely fair question. It's also a tough question, but it's 100% fair and it's 100% on-topic to this discussion. I don't see any reason for these people to refuse to answer it. It's a natural question when people insist that their approach to project management is beyond reproach. Okay .. You're correct 100%, I'm wrong.. Everything you say is correct, I'm not disputing anything your say, and i retract anything you feel obligied to respond to. Will that do? will you let the thread die know? Please I beg you tell me what I can to help kill this thread... Mark Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Lowe wrote: Look.. You've been invited to post your thoughts about the way that apache do stuff, to a more appropiate audience than a bunch of half-wit struts users like me.. Mark, I was involved in a conversation with various people. It so happens that the conversation developed here. No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. Craig
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Craig McClanahan wrote: No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. (About to break my own I'm done posting in this thread rule)... Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while, agree with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but has become people just talking over one another now. I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints, no matter how unpopular, but at some point it becomes obvious that no one is listening to one another, and then it's an exercise in futility. No one can stop anyone else from posting, not without locking someone out from the list anyway, which I hope never happens to anyone, but at some point everyone has to come to the realization that the conversation has past the point of being useful in any real way. If no one's opinion was changed 30 posts ago, chances are it's not going to happen now. Besides, if the points being raised are valid at all, this thread won't be the last of its kind... Someone will at some point start another and it'll all come out again, so why not hold back some of the talking points for next time? ;) Craig Frank - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
+1 with Frank and Craig. Unless you need to have your viewpoint continuously heard in public, some of the latter postings can be shared privately. Most of it was good, and I think it generated much good; thanks for sharing. --- Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. (About to break my own I'm done posting in this thread rule)... Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while, agree with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but has become people just talking over one another now. I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints, no matter how unpopular, but at some point it becomes obvious that no one is listening to one another, and then it's an exercise in futility. No one can stop anyone else from posting, not without locking someone out from the list anyway, which I hope never happens to anyone, but at some point everyone has to come to the realization that the conversation has past the point of being useful in any real way. If no one's opinion was changed 30 posts ago, chances are it's not going to happen now. Besides, if the points being raised are valid at all, this thread won't be the last of its kind... Someone will at some point start another and it'll all come out again, so why not hold back some of the talking points for next time? ;) Craig Frank - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why did Struts development stagnate?
Craig McClanahan wrote: On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Lowe wrote: Look.. You've been invited to post your thoughts about the way that apache do stuff, to a more appropiate audience than a bunch of half-wit struts users like me.. Mark, I was involved in a conversation with various people. It so happens that the conversation developed here. No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Well, I differ with you on this. Before Mark's interruption, I posed basically the following question: If there is no basic problem with your project management practices (as you seem to claim) what were the reasons that Struts development stagnated, with Struts becoming increasingly uncompetitive with other things in its space, such as Webwork? The question is, at the very least, broadly on-topic. It is of interest to the Struts community, because seriously considering this question would allow you to avoid the same mistakes in the future. It would also be useful even to people like me who are managing other open source projects. It is always useful to see what other people have done right (and wrong) in terms of managing projects. This is a very complex issue that is worthy of having an open-minded exchange of views about. Now, nobody is obliged to partake in this exchange of views, I grant that. But it is utterly beyond me why somebody who doesn't want to participate in such a discussion should be trying to prevent other people from doing so. Regards, Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ FreeMarker group blog, http://freemarker.blogspot.com/ Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. Craig - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[TALK] Java Web Framework Sweet Spots - by Matt Raible
Java Web Framework Sweet Spots - by Matt Raible http://www.virtuas.com/articles/webframework-sweetspots.html I selected relevant responses by the following representatives: JSF, Jacob Hookom Seam, Gavin King Spring MVC, Rob Harrop Spring Web Flow, Rob Harrop and Keith Donald Stripes, Tim Fennell Struts Action 1, Don Brown WebWork, Patrick Lightbody Wicket, Eelco Hillenius Their notes on Struts, WebWork and action-type frameworks in general: - While promoting JSF, Jacob agrees that for read-only or not-so-stateful applications an action framework might suit better. Struts is his choice primarily because of wide acceptance. He also thinks that WebWork (future Struts Action 2) is better in practice. Gavin thinks that Struts was innovative in its time but has failed to reinvent itself. It was always way, way too overly complex to bind model data to the view. The course-grained event model was OK at the time, but fine-grained events are a better approach today. [WebWork is] Struts++, missed its time. XWork was some great thinking at the time, but it is dated now. Spring MVC and Spring Web Flow: these guys PR too much about their own stuff. Even when asked to describe situations where their product might not be the best solution, or when directly asked about experience with other frameworks, they still plug their product in again and again. Tim says: I found very little to like about Struts. I spent a lot more time working around issues with Struts than I gained in productivity from using Struts. WebWork appears to be much higher quality, but its documentation is pretty sparse, making it hard to ramp up quickly or to find out how to use advanced features. Patrick was refreshingly direct and honest, pointing out current issues with WebWork and good features of other frameworks. He did not mention that Struts sucks. Guess who did? See below. Eelco does not like all action-type frameworks: Model 2 frameworks suck. I used them for years, ... but I totally lost my belief in them. Model 2 frameworks are highly procedural, and programmers don't learn object orientation properly from using them. I would rather hire someone who coded Swing for a few years than someone who primarily worked with model 2 frameworks because I would expect the Swing guy to be a better coder in general. Working with model 2 frameworks means going from hack to hack and back again, and the amount of copy 'n paste code it generally results in is something that makes any serious coder sad. If I had to pick any model 2 framework, I would probably pick Stripes, which at least got some of the most annoying aspects of model 2 out of the way. Michael. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why did Struts development stagnate?
On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, at the very least, broadly on-topic. This interpretation is wildly out of sync with the formal description of this mailing list's purpose[1], quoted below: Subscribe to this list to communicate with other developers that are using Struts for their own applications, including questions about the installation of Struts, and the usage of particular Struts features. Jonathan Revusky Craig [1] http://struts.apache.org/mail.html
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Paul Benedict wrote: +1 with Frank and Craig. Unless you need to have your viewpoint continuously heard in public, some of the latter postings can be shared privately. Most of it was good, and I think it generated much good; thanks for sharing. Well, my problem on this right now is that I just don't have closure. I asked the basic question of why Struts development stagnated and people who really should have by now really grappled with this question and considered it, simply disengaged, and some even started with the insults and such. I don't really like putting you on the spot, Paul (with other people, I don't mind so much but you seem like a basically okay guy) but I'm just going to ask you the same question I asked a whole bunch of other people and never got any answer from. What, in your opinion, are the reasons that Struts development stagnated? I know I'm being a hard-nosed SOB but I also know that the question is well-formulated, valid, and broadly on-topic for a Struts list. I'm sure you have an opinion on this subject, Paul. If you won't share your views, I'd be curious as to why. You see, I'm developing the impression that the above question is basically taboo somehow. Once you pose this question, people just start coming out of the woodwork screaming at you to shut up and stuff. So, at this point, I pretty much have developed a morbid fascination and am inclined to simply ask the question to everybody and see how they react. :-) So now I am asking you... :-) Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ --- Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. (About to break my own I'm done posting in this thread rule)... Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while, agree with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but has become people just talking over one another now. I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints, no matter how unpopular, but at some point it becomes obvious that no one is listening to one another, and then it's an exercise in futility. No one can stop anyone else from posting, not without locking someone out from the list anyway, which I hope never happens to anyone, but at some point everyone has to come to the realization that the conversation has past the point of being useful in any real way. If no one's opinion was changed 30 posts ago, chances are it's not going to happen now. Besides, if the points being raised are valid at all, this thread won't be the last of its kind... Someone will at some point start another and it'll all come out again, so why not hold back some of the talking points for next time? ;) Craig Frank - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wizards in Struts
While reading Java Web Framework Sweet Spots by Matt Raible [1] I found the following opinion by Patrick Lightbody: Like any action framework, WebWork is poor at handling state and wizards. If you're writing lots of long-running wizards, perhaps JSF is the way to go. I would like to plug in my own development here, asking Patrick and other interested parties to try this live demo: http://www.superinterface.com/strutsdialog/wizardaction.do The source code for updated version is here: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/struts/dialogs-samples-2.0.war?download This wizard is implemented with Struts Classic using session-scoped ActionForms and is bulletproof. Try to break it ;-) I hope this might provide some ideas on possible wizard implementation in Struts Action 1/2 or in other action framework or in pure JSP application. The latest version uses Struts EventActionDispatcher from Struts 1.2.9. Michael. [1] http://www.virtuas.com/articles/webframework-sweetspots.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why did Struts development stagnate?
Craig McClanahan wrote: On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, at the very least, broadly on-topic. This interpretation is wildly out of sync with the formal description of this mailing list's purpose[1], quoted below: Subscribe to this list to communicate with other developers that are using Struts for their own applications, including questions about the installation of Struts, and the usage of particular Struts features. So where should such a question be asked, Craig? On rec.automotive? On alt.politics.libertarian? It still seems broadly on-topic to me. It's certainly a legitimate, well-formulated question. Seriously, the only other possibility I see is struts-dev. If it's off-topic on both struts-user and struts-dev, then the question really is (as I am starting to suppose) basically taboo. So, cutting to the chase, if I pose the same question on struts-dev, you and the others would answer it? Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ Jonathan Revusky Craig [1] http://struts.apache.org/mail.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wizards in Struts
Michael Jouravlev wrote: While reading Java Web Framework Sweet Spots by Matt Raible [1] I found the following opinion by Patrick Lightbody: Like any action framework, WebWork is poor at handling state and wizards. If you're writing lots of long-running wizards, perhaps JSF is the way to go. I would like to plug in my own development here, asking Patrick and other interested parties to try this live demo: http://www.superinterface.com/strutsdialog/wizardaction.do The source code for updated version is here: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/struts/dialogs-samples-2.0.war?download This wizard is implemented with Struts Classic using session-scoped ActionForms and is bulletproof. Try to break it ;-) I hope this might provide some ideas on possible wizard implementation in Struts Action 1/2 or in other action framework or in pure JSP application. The latest version uses Struts EventActionDispatcher from Struts 1.2.9. Frankly, I doubt that Patrick was saying that you flat out couldn't do this kind of thing with Struts or Webwork. I would interpret what he said as meaning that the same thing using JSF, say, might be more elegant/maintainable/synonym for good. Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ Michael. [1] http://www.virtuas.com/articles/webframework-sweetspots.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why did Struts development stagnate?
On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, at the very least, broadly on-topic. This interpretation is wildly out of sync with the formal description of this mailing list's purpose[1], quoted below: Subscribe to this list to communicate with other developers that are using Struts for their own applications, including questions about the installation of Struts, and the usage of particular Struts features. So where should such a question be asked, Craig? On rec.automotive? On alt.politics.libertarian? It still seems broadly on-topic to me. It's certainly a legitimate, well-formulated question. Seriously, the only other possibility I see is struts-dev. If it's off-topic on both struts-user and struts-dev, then the question really is (as I am starting to suppose) basically taboo. What does the mailing list description for the dev list say? Subscribe to this mailing list to communicate with other developers interested in expanding and improving the functionality supported by Struts itself. So I guess it depends on your goals :-). So, cutting to the chase, if I pose the same question on struts-dev, you and the others would answer it? It wouldn't get rejected as off topic, but your rude and obnoxious behavior has made me, speaking for myself, totally uninterested in whether you ever receive closure on it. So I'll most likely just ignore you there as well as here. Jonathan Revusky Craig PS: Lest you think I'm an arrogant jerk that deigns to answer only questions from worthy people, two notes of interest: * If you count the number of questions that I've answered on this list alone (let alone all the other lists I participate in), it's in the many thousands. * Adding you to my internal ignore list just doubled its size. This is the first time there has ever been more than one.
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Well, you managed to avoid the whole issue again, Raeburn. Do you ever address a topic? On 3/25/06, Steve Raeburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I normally ignore your crap and I'm sorry for prolonging this agony for everyone. This really will be my last word. Michael, why do you continue to waste your time on such a big pile of crap as Struts? What kind of a fool must you be for using the world's worst web framework, run by a bunch on idiotic dictators? If you really believe that, then you are as big a loser as you appear to be. If you think you can do better, then fine, go do it. But please, quit whining and doing nothing about it. Or do you just enjoy whining? Please. Get a life. Steve p.s. Don't bother addressing any reply to me. You'll just be pissing in the wind. Dakota Jack wrote: The fact is that there will not be an explanation for this failure. While sitting in the biggest pile of crap code one could imagine, they continue to extoll their virtues as if they were about to be mentioned for an honorarium in computer history. snip On 3/24/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Raeburn wrote: Bottom line is that this is the way Apache works and it's not going to change. In any case, it is not a subject of legitimate debate at this point that progress on the Struts framework stagnated. If you guys were doing everything right, then what is your explanation for that? Jonathan Revusky /snip -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
I fully understand Struts, Martin. Struts is fairly easy to understand. I work with code that makes Struts look like tinker toys. I also understand that Struts cannot be organized by the MVC paradigm and have discussed that at length many times on the list. Ted is right that only loose coupling with V -- C -- M is possible with web applications like Struts. I think about what I actually see on the list. I don't think about what you are claiming happens. I have complaints. Sorry if that offends you. I have more knowledge about software architecture and design than you will ever know, Martin. I have proposed alternatives. Unfortunately, the committers decided on alternatives which have failed. They have had to admit that but won't discuss it. That was the topic here, and you have avoided it too. Would you care to discuss that? On 3/25/06, Martin Gainty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven- A multi-threaded enterprise wide solution that is organised according to true Model View Controller paradigm is NOT a pile of crap nor is anything else you dont understand- I would strongly suggest you think about all of the hard work and effort that the commiters and people on this list put into the product which is offered to us lowly developers basically for free In the meanwhile I would also strongly suggest you read everything you can about Software Architecture and Design so that you will be able to propose an alternative but If you have no alternative then opening your ears and listening to how can we make our system more maintainable while accomodating enterpise wide needs for our customers would be a constructive use of your time Martin- - Original Message - From: Steve Raeburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List user@struts.apache.org Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:33 AM Subject: Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation I normally ignore your crap and I'm sorry for prolonging this agony for everyone. This really will be my last word. Michael, why do you continue to waste your time on such a big pile of crap as Struts? What kind of a fool must you be for using the world's worst web framework, run by a bunch on idiotic dictators? If you really believe that, then you are as big a loser as you appear to be. If you think you can do better, then fine, go do it. But please, quit whining and doing nothing about it. Or do you just enjoy whining? Please. Get a life. Steve p.s. Don't bother addressing any reply to me. You'll just be pissing in the wind. Dakota Jack wrote: The fact is that there will not be an explanation for this failure. While sitting in the biggest pile of crap code one could imagine, they continue to extoll their virtues as if they were about to be mentioned for an honorarium in computer history. snip On 3/24/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Raeburn wrote: Bottom line is that this is the way Apache works and it's not going to change. In any case, it is not a subject of legitimate debate at this point that progress on the Struts framework stagnated. If you guys were doing everything right, then what is your explanation for that? Jonathan Revusky /snip -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
If people want to talk, Mark, what do you care? You and a few other drones come on and beg people to stop talking. What is that about? Who in the hell do you think you are to dictate who wants to talk? You always have these facists tendencies? The trouble is that the truth hurts. Why don't you address the issue? The issue is whether Struts crapped out and lost the competition with WebWorks? You would think that did not happen and that everything was wonderful. If the reasons Struts crapped out are not addressed, guess what? It will happen again. If you keep doing the same thing you did, you will get the same thing you got. What you got in this case was a completely unacceptable code set that had to be rescrued by a competitor. Is it okay to talk about or do you still just want people to shut up? On 3/25/06, Mark Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I +1000 what steve said, I'm all for a bit of digression, but this thread has narrowed the sematic gap between to post and to smear.. Its just become some sick kind of dirty protest http://pso.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/pso1700/DIRTY%20PROTESTS.htm.. Mark On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Newton wrote: Jonathan Revusky wrote: snip I have no publicly-accessible open-source projects. If I did, I would not give commit access to anybody that asked for it, because I do not have the time to review the contributions of others and do not trust J. Random Coder enough to assume that they'll do the Right Thing, because in general, most people aren't very good programmers. The whole idea that, when you give somebody commit privileges, that they just go beserk committing all kinds of code of questionable quality -- this is just not something that really happens. I recognize that it could happen. Also it could happen that you give commit privileges to someone who is outright malicious. However, the latter would be so infrequent really that, IMO, it's not an issue. If a wandering serial saboteur -- the Ted Bundy of open source coding, if you will -- happens to get involved in your project, well, I would attribute that to inordinate bad luck, maybe like walking down the street and getting struck by lightning. Possible, but so unlikely that it does not condition your decision making. What usually happens is that people sound all enthusiastic about doing stuff and then, when they have the commit access, they simply do nothing. That is what happens easily the vast majority of times. People overestimate the time they can devote to something. They underestimate the investment that it is to really get their heads around the code. When people do start using their commit privileges they are usually quite timid about it initially and initiate discussion on your list prior to doing anything remotely controversial. People typically start off doing very small localized things. And these things are not very time consuming for the more established people on the team to review. One thing that would be possible is to encourage people to get their legs by doing things like working on unit tests and javadoc comments and so on. Most projects, unfortunately, have too little of both of those things and letting people in to initially work on that is quite low risk. That would provide a way for poeople to gradually get into the swing of things. I think that any people managing an open source project have to be thinking about how to get new blood into the project. Again, YMMV, and hopefully has! If you have, that's great, and I'm glad it's working for you, and I hope it continues to. It's not just working for me. It's working for a lot of people. A lot of people use FreeMarker, you know. That's a pretty small sample size, but good :) Be that as it may, apparently it's infinitely greater than your experience running open source projects. Anyway, this is getting sterile. I've made my point. It is my considered view that this idea that the ability to commit code is something that needs to be this zealously guarded is not well founded. Probably a project like Struts would benefit from drastically lowering the bar to becoming a committer. The problem is that they've created this political structure where they've defined committers as people with political power and non-committers as people with no political power and so it has to do with a certain clique retaining their power. It has basically nothing to do with guarding the quality of the code. Actually, it is probable that being politically correct (less likely to disagree with the current clique) is a greater factor in becoming a committer than coding prowess is. Regards, Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ FreeMarker group blog, http://freemarker.blogspot.com/ Dave
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Okay, Dave?!? I guess you are right after all: non-public open-source projects are really quite normal, right? Keep truckin'! On 3/25/06, Dave Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dakota Jack wrote: This is going to be one of my all time favorites. Brought a HUGE grin to my face. Weird, but okay. If you are addressing the apparent dichotomy with publicly-accessible and open-source then you probably just don't know very much, but I'll talk slowly, as there are two different reasons I chose to risk you being an asshole: 1) Open-source roots, multiplicity of commiters, not-yet-released (and, I suppose, may never be at this point, but who knows) 2) Pre-released, ground-up effort Multiple projects, unknown future. Labeled as open-source but relatively small community and for the forseeable future (3-6 months?) nothing will be publicly available. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: Why did Struts development stagnate?
I believe the user group is for user questions about Struts; if I had to pick a place for questions like these, they really belong on the dev list so the casual user isn't loaded down with internal disputations and disagreements. --- Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Lowe wrote: Look.. You've been invited to post your thoughts about the way that apache do stuff, to a more appropiate audience than a bunch of half-wit struts users like me.. Mark, I was involved in a conversation with various people. It so happens that the conversation developed here. No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Well, I differ with you on this. Before Mark's interruption, I posed basically the following question: If there is no basic problem with your project management practices (as you seem to claim) what were the reasons that Struts development stagnated, with Struts becoming increasingly uncompetitive with other things in its space, such as Webwork? The question is, at the very least, broadly on-topic. It is of interest to the Struts community, because seriously considering this question would allow you to avoid the same mistakes in the future. It would also be useful even to people like me who are managing other open source projects. It is always useful to see what other people have done right (and wrong) in terms of managing projects. This is a very complex issue that is worthy of having an open-minded exchange of views about. Now, nobody is obliged to partake in this exchange of views, I grant that. But it is utterly beyond me why somebody who doesn't want to participate in such a discussion should be trying to prevent other people from doing so. Regards, Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ FreeMarker group blog, http://freemarker.blogspot.com/ Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. Craig - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Johnathan, I am going to eat my own advice. I am going to respond to this privately :) Expect an email soon. Paul --- Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Benedict wrote: +1 with Frank and Craig. Unless you need to have your viewpoint continuously heard in public, some of the latter postings can be shared privately. Most of it was good, and I think it generated much good; thanks for sharing. Well, my problem on this right now is that I just don't have closure. I asked the basic question of why Struts development stagnated and people who really should have by now really grappled with this question and considered it, simply disengaged, and some even started with the insults and such. I don't really like putting you on the spot, Paul (with other people, I don't mind so much but you seem like a basically okay guy) but I'm just going to ask you the same question I asked a whole bunch of other people and never got any answer from. What, in your opinion, are the reasons that Struts development stagnated? I know I'm being a hard-nosed SOB but I also know that the question is well-formulated, valid, and broadly on-topic for a Struts list. I'm sure you have an opinion on this subject, Paul. If you won't share your views, I'd be curious as to why. You see, I'm developing the impression that the above question is basically taboo somehow. Once you pose this question, people just start coming out of the woodwork screaming at you to shut up and stuff. So, at this point, I pretty much have developed a morbid fascination and am inclined to simply ask the question to everybody and see how they react. :-) So now I am asking you... :-) Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ --- Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. (About to break my own I'm done posting in this thread rule)... Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while, agree with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but has become people just talking over one another now. I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints, no matter how unpopular, but at some point it becomes obvious that no one is listening to one another, and then it's an exercise in futility. No one can stop anyone else from posting, not without locking someone out from the list anyway, which I hope never happens to anyone, but at some point everyone has to come to the realization that the conversation has past the point of being useful in any real way. If no one's opinion was changed 30 posts ago, chances are it's not going to happen now. Besides, if the points being raised are valid at all, this thread won't be the last of its kind... Someone will at some point start another and it'll all come out again, so why not hold back some of the talking points for next time? ;) Craig Frank - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
What is your problem with this thread, Mark. Why can you just not STAND it if the people who are talking talk? Why do you want them to be SILENT? You talk about other people soiling, smearing, etc., and you are one of the worse offenders. Jonathon comes on here and makes a few legitimate points and you start going ballistic. What the hell is wrong with you? What dog do you have in the hunt? Or, are you just supposed to be the person to tell other people when to stop. You try to do a +1000 but, like the rest of us, you only have a +1 at best. This is what community here is really about and I for one am happy to see that not everyone is afraid to talk about what really happens on the list versus what you and others like you perpetrate. I would personally like to thank Jonathon for coming by. His presence has already led to improvements in the website. Do you have anything you would like to say other than you want other people to stop talking? On 3/25/06, Mark Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look.. You've been invited to post your thoughts about the way that apache do stuff, to a more appropiate audience than a bunch of half-wit struts users like me.. I was using smear more in the context of to soil You might have a point, you might not, you could be the next pope for all i care.. Let the thread die.. What do you want? Everyone to say.. Yes jonathon you're correct, freemarker is the best because you're involved and it employs a more open policy in respect to commit privledges .. What do you want people to say? Okay,.. You're my hero!! Jonathan is king!!! Anything else? I surrender, I'll say whatever you want, your insesent ascii diarrhea has beaten us all into submission Anything else you want me to say to stop this thread just say!!! I'll do whatever you want!!! Please just tell me what i can do.. Mark On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Lowe wrote: May I +1000 what steve said, I'm all for a bit of digression, but this thread has narrowed the sematic gap between to post and to smear.. What smear? Do you mean smear as in slander? Could you be more explicit about this? I think you ought to clarify what you mean by that statement or retract it. I asked Steve Raeburn the same question I have asked before. The question is as follows: If your project management practices are so great, how come Struts development stagnated to such an extent? The stagnation is not a matter of legitimate debate now. They have had to bring in Webwork, a competing project developed outside of ASF, so that they could have something more up-to-date to offer under the Struts brand-name. Why should I not ask that question? Because these people find it embarassing? Well, that's tough cookies, eh? Is that what you're talking about when you say a smear? I'm satisfied that this is a completely fair question. It's also a tough question, but it's 100% fair and it's 100% on-topic to this discussion. I don't see any reason for these people to refuse to answer it. It's a natural question when people insist that their approach to project management is beyond reproach. Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: Struts Calendar Component
this might be of interest. very easy to integrate into your application: http://www.dynarch.com/projects/calendar/ HTMLArea is also something cool.
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
It has been taken off track by your backers, Craig. There were some questions raised about why Struts failed and how it might be good to look at how this list behaves. This is the only forum for that discussion. You get people that are wonderfully happy with the list that take that concern down nasty paths. Talk to them. But, the conversation should not be stiffled because people cannot accept criticism. Your personal lack of any sort of response, given that you are a principal architect of the failure in question is disappointing. To now attempt to stiffle any conversation of the situation you have failed to address may well be one of the main reasons for the failure people are trying to analyze. Is analysis of failure not a good idea here? On 3/25/06, Craig McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Lowe wrote: Look.. You've been invited to post your thoughts about the way that apache do stuff, to a more appropiate audience than a bunch of half-wit struts users like me.. Mark, I was involved in a conversation with various people. It so happens that the conversation developed here. No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. Craig -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Why does anyone want to stop a thread? If it stops it stops? What is the motivation for stopping a discussion? This seems really, really strange. If you don't want to participate, don't. If you don't like what is being said, have your own say. But to want other people to stop talking? That is a funny thing to want to do. I personally don't care what other people talk about on threads that don't interest me. I am interested in discussing Jonathon's question but the regular supports of the status quo here have tried to stop the thread by introducing personal attacks and by saying that they just cannot stand this thead going on. If anyone ever says they want a thread to stop, I am really interested in why. Why? What do you care? I hope we are not going down the bandwidth silliness again. On 3/25/06, Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. (About to break my own I'm done posting in this thread rule)... Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while, agree with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but has become people just talking over one another now. I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints, no matter how unpopular, but at some point it becomes obvious that no one is listening to one another, and then it's an exercise in futility. No one can stop anyone else from posting, not without locking someone out from the list anyway, which I hope never happens to anyone, but at some point everyone has to come to the realization that the conversation has past the point of being useful in any real way. If no one's opinion was changed 30 posts ago, chances are it's not going to happen now. Besides, if the points being raised are valid at all, this thread won't be the last of its kind... Someone will at some point start another and it'll all come out again, so why not hold back some of the talking points for next time? ;) Craig Frank - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Dynamically adding form beans in plugin
Hi, I have multiple modules configured in my web application I want to in the init() method of my plugin 1. read a file with some info 2. find a particular ModConfig object corresponding to 1 of my modules 3. According to the info in the file create and add FormBeanConfig objects to that ModConfig object. I think my big problem would be in finding the correct ModConfig object? I know I am passed a ModConfig object in the init method but how can I access one that I want to manipulate? Any pointers appreciated Eamonn
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Well, I for one would be interested in what you have to say, Paul. I think it is too bad that you feel you cannot answer on this list. That is as close to a tragedy as it gets. I cannot believe how censorship works on this list. What a sad thing. I want to get peoples' ideas on this. I cannot get them if this list is afraid to talk because Craig comes on and says shut up. Nothing could be more relevant to this community than why it failed. To suggest otherwise is either disingenuous or facist or both. On 3/25/06, Paul Benedict [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Johnathan, I am going to eat my own advice. I am going to respond to this privately :) Expect an email soon. Paul --- Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Benedict wrote: +1 with Frank and Craig. Unless you need to have your viewpoint continuously heard in public, some of the latter postings can be shared privately. Most of it was good, and I think it generated much good; thanks for sharing. Well, my problem on this right now is that I just don't have closure. I asked the basic question of why Struts development stagnated and people who really should have by now really grappled with this question and considered it, simply disengaged, and some even started with the insults and such. I don't really like putting you on the spot, Paul (with other people, I don't mind so much but you seem like a basically okay guy) but I'm just going to ask you the same question I asked a whole bunch of other people and never got any answer from. What, in your opinion, are the reasons that Struts development stagnated? I know I'm being a hard-nosed SOB but I also know that the question is well-formulated, valid, and broadly on-topic for a Struts list. I'm sure you have an opinion on this subject, Paul. If you won't share your views, I'd be curious as to why. You see, I'm developing the impression that the above question is basically taboo somehow. Once you pose this question, people just start coming out of the woodwork screaming at you to shut up and stuff. So, at this point, I pretty much have developed a morbid fascination and am inclined to simply ask the question to everybody and see how they react. :-) So now I am asking you... :-) Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ --- Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. (About to break my own I'm done posting in this thread rule)... Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while, agree with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but has become people just talking over one another now. I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints, no matter how unpopular, but at some point it becomes obvious that no one is listening to one another, and then it's an exercise in futility. No one can stop anyone else from posting, not without locking someone out from the list anyway, which I hope never happens to anyone, but at some point everyone has to come to the realization that the conversation has past the point of being useful in any real way. If no one's opinion was changed 30 posts ago, chances are it's not going to happen now. Besides, if the points being raised are valid at all, this thread won't be the last of its kind... Someone will at some point start another and it'll all come out again, so why not hold back some of the talking points for next time? ;) Craig Frank - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: Why did Struts development stagnate?
Unless you had different logic books in school than I did, Craig, including does not mean excluding all else. I am here to communicate with other developers that are using STruts for their own applications and part of that is the concern about how the development process here has been failing. That is critical to people who use Struts. I am sorry if it implicates that people, like yourself, who were in charge of the failure. But, do you really think that learning something at this stage of your career is impossible when things don't work out? I would think that your great success would give you more room for criticism than that. On 3/25/06, Craig McClanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, at the very least, broadly on-topic. This interpretation is wildly out of sync with the formal description of this mailing list's purpose[1], quoted below: Subscribe to this list to communicate with other developers that are using Struts for their own applications, including questions about the installation of Struts, and the usage of particular Struts features. Jonathan Revusky Craig [1] http://struts.apache.org/mail.html -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Dakota, Thanks for wanting my input :-) I am not looking for censorship, but I am looking for productive discussions and sometimes that means pruning one discussion for the sake of another. I tend to agree that this thread should move onto the dev board; it seems to be the appropraite place, in my eyes, for discussion on project management, patches, and the future vision of Struts. I don't think it is a difficult thing to transpose these discussions there, so, if probably will hold off on this thread until it moves over. I just don't want to penalize true user questions here, since some people need real development help, and I think having a ton of philosophical inbound mail detracts from it. Paul --- Dakota Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I for one would be interested in what you have to say, Paul. I think it is too bad that you feel you cannot answer on this list. That is as close to a tragedy as it gets. I cannot believe how censorship works on this list. What a sad thing. I want to get peoples' ideas on this. I cannot get them if this list is afraid to talk because Craig comes on and says shut up. Nothing could be more relevant to this community than why it failed. To suggest otherwise is either disingenuous or facist or both. On 3/25/06, Paul Benedict [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Johnathan, I am going to eat my own advice. I am going to respond to this privately :) Expect an email soon. Paul --- Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Benedict wrote: +1 with Frank and Craig. Unless you need to have your viewpoint continuously heard in public, some of the latter postings can be shared privately. Most of it was good, and I think it generated much good; thanks for sharing. Well, my problem on this right now is that I just don't have closure. I asked the basic question of why Struts development stagnated and people who really should have by now really grappled with this question and considered it, simply disengaged, and some even started with the insults and such. I don't really like putting you on the spot, Paul (with other people, I don't mind so much but you seem like a basically okay guy) but I'm just going to ask you the same question I asked a whole bunch of other people and never got any answer from. What, in your opinion, are the reasons that Struts development stagnated? I know I'm being a hard-nosed SOB but I also know that the question is well-formulated, valid, and broadly on-topic for a Struts list. I'm sure you have an opinion on this subject, Paul. If you won't share your views, I'd be curious as to why. You see, I'm developing the impression that the above question is basically taboo somehow. Once you pose this question, people just start coming out of the woodwork screaming at you to shut up and stuff. So, at this point, I pretty much have developed a morbid fascination and am inclined to simply ask the question to everybody and see how they react. :-) So now I am asking you... :-) Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ --- Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. (About to break my own I'm done posting in this thread rule)... Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while, agree with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but has become people just talking over one another now. I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints, no matter how unpopular, but at some point it becomes obvious that no one is listening to one another, and then it's an exercise in futility. No one can stop anyone else from posting, not without locking someone out from the list anyway, which I hope never happens to anyone, but at some point everyone has to come to the realization that the conversation has past the point of being useful in any real way. If no one's opinion was changed 30 posts ago, chances are it's not going to happen now. Besides, if the points being raised are valid at all, this thread won't be the last of its kind... Someone will at some point start another and it'll all come out again, so why not hold back some of the talking points for next time? ;) Craig Frank - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
I don't know about you, but my email comes organized so that I can easily work around anything that happens on a list. I would think that this is fairly normal and something we could expect? I can remember when the dev list would say Heh, take that stuff to the user list. But, if things go to the dev list I am down with that. I really think that this is an important topic. A lot of talent is not going to get hooked into Struts, as it has not in the past, if we continue that way things are. I am interested, by the way, in everyone's input. On 3/25/06, Paul Benedict [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dakota, Thanks for wanting my input :-) I am not looking for censorship, but I am looking for productive discussions and sometimes that means pruning one discussion for the sake of another. I tend to agree that this thread should move onto the dev board; it seems to be the appropraite place, in my eyes, for discussion on project management, patches, and the future vision of Struts. I don't think it is a difficult thing to transpose these discussions there, so, if probably will hold off on this thread until it moves over. I just don't want to penalize true user questions here, since some people need real development help, and I think having a ton of philosophical inbound mail detracts from it. Paul --- Dakota Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I for one would be interested in what you have to say, Paul. I think it is too bad that you feel you cannot answer on this list. That is as close to a tragedy as it gets. I cannot believe how censorship works on this list. What a sad thing. I want to get peoples' ideas on this. I cannot get them if this list is afraid to talk because Craig comes on and says shut up. Nothing could be more relevant to this community than why it failed. To suggest otherwise is either disingenuous or facist or both. On 3/25/06, Paul Benedict [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Johnathan, I am going to eat my own advice. I am going to respond to this privately :) Expect an email soon. Paul --- Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Benedict wrote: +1 with Frank and Craig. Unless you need to have your viewpoint continuously heard in public, some of the latter postings can be shared privately. Most of it was good, and I think it generated much good; thanks for sharing. Well, my problem on this right now is that I just don't have closure. I asked the basic question of why Struts development stagnated and people who really should have by now really grappled with this question and considered it, simply disengaged, and some even started with the insults and such. I don't really like putting you on the spot, Paul (with other people, I don't mind so much but you seem like a basically okay guy) but I'm just going to ask you the same question I asked a whole bunch of other people and never got any answer from. What, in your opinion, are the reasons that Struts development stagnated? I know I'm being a hard-nosed SOB but I also know that the question is well-formulated, valid, and broadly on-topic for a Struts list. I'm sure you have an opinion on this subject, Paul. If you won't share your views, I'd be curious as to why. You see, I'm developing the impression that the above question is basically taboo somehow. Once you pose this question, people just start coming out of the woodwork screaming at you to shut up and stuff. So, at this point, I pretty much have developed a morbid fascination and am inclined to simply ask the question to everybody and see how they react. :-) So now I am asking you... :-) Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ --- Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. (About to break my own I'm done posting in this thread rule)... Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while, agree with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but has become people just talking over one another now. I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints, no matter how unpopular, but at some point it becomes obvious that no one is listening to one another, and then it's an exercise in futility. No one can stop anyone else from posting, not without locking someone out from the list anyway, which I hope never happens to anyone, but at some point everyone has to come to the realization that the conversation has past the point of being useful in any real way. If no one's opinion
Re: Dynamically adding form beans in plugin
Eamonn: The plugin gets the specific ModuleConfig for the module in which the plugin element appears. If you want to perform a certain setup operation in several modules, then each of them should repeat the same plugin element (or as close to the same as is appropriate.) If you only put the plugin element in one struts-config.xml, then it will only be initialized once, for that specific module. I'm not totally sure I understood your question, but if I did, hopefully this helps. We developed a library once that does something like this where it reads from a database to set up a form object. Joe At 6:45 PM -0500 3/25/06, Eamonn O'Donnell wrote: Hi, I have multiple modules configured in my web application I want to in the init() method of my plugin 1. read a file with some info 2. find a particular ModConfig object corresponding to 1 of my modules 3. According to the info in the file create and add FormBeanConfig objects to that ModConfig object. I think my big problem would be in finding the correct ModConfig object? I know I am passed a ModConfig object in the init method but how can I access one that I want to manipulate? Any pointers appreciated Eamonn -- Joe Germuska [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://blog.germuska.com You really can't burn anything out by trying something new, and even if you can burn it out, it can be fixed. Try something new. -- Robert Moog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [FRIDAY] Re: has struts reached the saturation
Jack, I think folks on this list have heard enough complaining and whinning by you and others. You claim that your right of free speech is being violated, but all I have heard from you is insults. This is a list for professional developers, not gangsters! Also, how are contributing by claiming that Struts has not lived up to your expectations? If anything, you should be contributing to make it better. All said and done, I have now used Struts for over a year and I must say that the creators did a great job! It's a very powerful framework and the folks you labored ardously to design and implement it deserve, at the very least, a thank you from all of us. - Asad On Sat, 25 Mar 2006, Dakota Jack wrote: I don't know about you, but my email comes organized so that I can easily work around anything that happens on a list. I would think that this is fairly normal and something we could expect? I can remember when the dev list would say Heh, take that stuff to the user list. But, if things go to the dev list I am down with that. I really think that this is an important topic. A lot of talent is not going to get hooked into Struts, as it has not in the past, if we continue that way things are. I am interested, by the way, in everyone's input. On 3/25/06, Paul Benedict [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dakota, Thanks for wanting my input :-) I am not looking for censorship, but I am looking for productive discussions and sometimes that means pruning one discussion for the sake of another. I tend to agree that this thread should move onto the dev board; it seems to be the appropraite place, in my eyes, for discussion on project management, patches, and the future vision of Struts. I don't think it is a difficult thing to transpose these discussions there, so, if probably will hold off on this thread until it moves over. I just don't want to penalize true user questions here, since some people need real development help, and I think having a ton of philosophical inbound mail detracts from it. Paul --- Dakota Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I for one would be interested in what you have to say, Paul. I think it is too bad that you feel you cannot answer on this list. That is as close to a tragedy as it gets. I cannot believe how censorship works on this list. What a sad thing. I want to get peoples' ideas on this. I cannot get them if this list is afraid to talk because Craig comes on and says shut up. Nothing could be more relevant to this community than why it failed. To suggest otherwise is either disingenuous or facist or both. On 3/25/06, Paul Benedict [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Johnathan, I am going to eat my own advice. I am going to respond to this privately :) Expect an email soon. Paul --- Jonathan Revusky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Benedict wrote: +1 with Frank and Craig. Unless you need to have your viewpoint continuously heard in public, some of the latter postings can be shared privately. Most of it was good, and I think it generated much good; thanks for sharing. Well, my problem on this right now is that I just don't have closure. I asked the basic question of why Struts development stagnated and people who really should have by now really grappled with this question and considered it, simply disengaged, and some even started with the insults and such. I don't really like putting you on the spot, Paul (with other people, I don't mind so much but you seem like a basically okay guy) but I'm just going to ask you the same question I asked a whole bunch of other people and never got any answer from. What, in your opinion, are the reasons that Struts development stagnated? I know I'm being a hard-nosed SOB but I also know that the question is well-formulated, valid, and broadly on-topic for a Struts list. I'm sure you have an opinion on this subject, Paul. If you won't share your views, I'd be curious as to why. You see, I'm developing the impression that the above question is basically taboo somehow. Once you pose this question, people just start coming out of the woodwork screaming at you to shut up and stuff. So, at this point, I pretty much have developed a morbid fascination and am inclined to simply ask the question to everybody and see how they react. :-) So now I am asking you... :-) Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/ --- Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Craig McClanahan wrote: No matter where the conversation developed, it has gone in directions that are off topic on this list. Please feel free to continue the conversation, but do it somewhere else. (About to break my own I'm done posting in this thread rule)... Even I, as someone who was knee-deep in this thread for a while, agree with Craig. The problem is it was a discussion for a while, but has become people just talking over one another now. I'm all for people expressing their viewpoints,
Re: indexed property validation: how to keep the value the user entered
We'll need to see the relevant parts of your struts-config.xml too
(specifically, the form bean and action mapping definitions).
L.
Carl Smith wrote:
I have a jsp containing an indexed test box field, and I need to validate the
user enter a value into all the text boxes when clicking on the save button.
Validation is done OK, but there is an issue. Let me give you an example
illustrating the issue: if there are three text boxes, the user enters 1, 2
into the first two boxes, but didn't enter anything in the third box, struts
validation catch and display the correct validation error on the jsp saying
he/she needs to enter values for all the text boxes, then it wipes out 1 and 2,
which is not what I wanted. What I wanted was that when displaying the
validation error, it should keep 1 and 2 which was entered by the user. Any
suggestions? I appreciate your helps!
Here are my classes:
public class TestingForm extends ValidatorActionForm {
private LabelValueBean[] listOfItems ;
public LabelValueBean[] getListOfItems() {
return listOfItems;
}
public void setListOfItems(LabelValueBean[] beans) {
listOfItems = beans;
}
}
public class DisplayAction extends org.apache.struts.action.Action {
public ActionForward execute(
ActionMapping mapping,
ActionForm form,
HttpServletRequest request,
HttpServletResponse response)
throws NestedException {
TestingForm testingForm = (TestingForm) form;
LabelValueBean[] listOfItems = new LabelValueBean[3];
LabelValueBean bean1 = new LabelValueBean(1, );
LabelValueBean bean2 = new LabelValueBean(2, );
LabelValueBean bean3 = new LabelValueBean(3, );
listOfItems[0]=bean1;
listOfItems[1]=bean2;
listOfItems[2]=bean3;
testingForm.setListOfItems(listOfItems);
return mapping.findForward(myJsp.jsp);
}
}
myJsp.jsp
html:form action=/testingSaveAction method=post
logic:iterate name=testingForm property=listOfItems id=labelValue
Indexed field to be validated: html:text name=labelValue property=value
indexed=true/br /
/logic:iterate
html:submit property=submitSave/html:submit
/html:form
In validaton.xml I set up the validation for the indexed filed:
formset
form name=/testingSaveAction
field property=value indexedListProperty=listOfItems depends=required
msg name=required key=thisfield.cannotblank/
/field
/form
/formset
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Re: Using the nocache attribute of the tag controller in struts-config.xml
Pierrot wrote: Hello, I'm trying to set the nocache attribute of the tag controller of the struts-config.xml to false so that my JSP pages won't be cached by either IE or Firefox but to no avail. I've also included the following script to the mainlayout.jsp file from which all my JSP files extend: My application also use Hibernate and Tiles. Could it be that it's not possible to disable the caching of the JSP pages when using Tiles? Regards. The script you mentioned seems to be missing from your post, but in any case, the problem is probably that nocache must be set to *true* to disable caching, not false. See the documentation in the struts-config*.dtd file. L. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
