Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Hey, thanks for the lifesign! ;-) Real good to see that you really read all this. I have to say though that it would be even nicer if you also gave us some info. Like: - What happened to the Render Daemon? - What are your plans for the Realsoft website; as you just recently started to put those tutorials up? - Is a participation of the userbase planned, and if, in what form (tutorials, materials, etc.)? - How about the SDK downloads and linked but missing SDK documentation pages? Are they going to be reuploaded, and if they are, when? And most importantly: - What do you think about the feature-requests? That you are considering them is one thing, but what do you personally think about them? This is of the utmost importance. Because all the requests and ideas are futile if they have no chance of really getting implemented. I mean, writing and reading all this and thinking of new features for RS3D takes time, and this time could be better spent, if it was clear that the ideas in the end go unimplemented. If on the other hand you showed your concrete interest in these ideas and request, and told us that you were really looking for a way to implement the respective features, users would surely offer their ideas and inspiration willingly. So, in short: - Do you think that improving the speed of RS3Ds development is doable? Is it realistic to assume that the requested features will be implemented in the next version of RS3D or so? Would be real nice to read your answers to this questions. Best Regards Martin Original-Nachricht Datum: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:03:19 +0200 Von: Vesa Meskanen v...@realsoft.com An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Hi, Thanks for recent feedback. I always read all messages and consider them, even though I deliberately avoid getting involved in some discussions:) Kind regards, Vesa -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 euro;/mtl.! Jetzt auch mit gratis Notebook-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
@Jean-Sebastien (aidan): I´m not much of a business man. I´m sure Vesa and Juha made their business decisions based on their needs and wishes; they certainly were not unfounded. As I wrote, Vesa once said that he didn´t want to run a big business, and I find that perfectly understandable. Perhaps they have other jobs besides running Realsoft, but what would that matter in this discussion? I was saying that there are possibilities to increase development and marketing of RS3D without greatly increasing the personal workload. That basically is the point of my supposing to look for other business models; that cranking up the efforts for RS3D would NOT necessarilly mean either losing control of the company or greatly increasing one own´s workload. So in my opinion, looking at these alternatives would really be a viable option. And when it comes to keeping the spendings low - that isn´t necessarily a good strategy. As in almost every matter, there is an optimum between too much and not enough. And again this is basically the point of my whole ranting - that Realsofts efforts are not enough for me. And, as it seems, I´m not the only one with such an opinion. I still miss a comment, of whatsoever nature, of Realsoft. A simple Have read, don´t have time to reply now. Until later. Thx would be better that nothing. Original-Nachricht Datum: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 11:57:32 + Von: aidan o driscoll aidan...@eircom.net An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft However - to survive in this world of ours one needs SOME money, be it an individual or a company. OK RS is still around, but Winning Recipe? Just because you are still around does not mean a winning recipe. How many copies of RS is sold per week / month / year at this stage? Enough to keep even TWO people in a wage? Are the guys developing RS ALSO involved in other areas? On 8 November 2010 11:57, aidan o driscoll aidan...@gmail.com wrote: However - to survive in this world of ours one needs SOME money, be it an individual or a company. OK RS is still around, but Winning Recipe? Just because you are still around does not mean a winning recipe. How many copies of RS is sold per week / month / year at this stage? Enough to keep even TWO people in a wage? Are the guys developing RS ALSO involved in other areas? Aidan On 7 November 2010 20:20, Jean-Sebastien Perron j...@neuroworld.ws wrote: It's not about how much you gain money, it's about how much you spend. RS is still around because they kept the spending low. What you are kind of saying Martin is that you would favor a software based on it's users/community/popularity over the software itself. In 10 years RS will still be there with a few redefining revolutions here and there. From day 1 (RS 1.0) to today they have kept it the same. When you have a winning recipe you don't change it. What good is money if you cannot survive in difficult times and risk loosing it all. The only thing that can change is YOU and US. We can do more. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.NeuroWorld.ws On 10-11-07 11:50 AM, mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Sure you´re right, but somehow that´s the whole point, right? If Realsoft is basically just two people - and this proves to be not enough - than it should be checked if other options are available. And this just roughly correlates to the price of the product. If the expenses are doubled and so are the earnings generated by RS3D, then the equation much likely evens out - at least. To, for example, have an investor who gives money for marketing and development but also wants a percentage of the income, should at least generate the same amount of income for Vesa and Juha as is generated now, simply through increased sales, while the price could probably stay the same. Let´s face it - leading software publishers only demand high prices because they can. Because their software is the leader. If for example you compare Photoshop to some of it´s (theoretical) competitors, you will find that some of them sell for only five percent (!) of Photoshops price; while offering about 80% of Photoshops capabilities. But even if RS3D cost fifty or a hundret bucks more, users would buy it if they saw that the increased functionality was worth it. Martin Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 13:57:40 + Von: leeel...@spatial.plus.com An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft I've been using RS a long time, albeit not quite as long as Mark - just since V2 on Amiga - but like Mark, the way that RS works fits me just right (even though I'm not as active as I used to be, I still get the occasional idea for a pic and manage to 'dribble' out a few new pics each year.) I think that one
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Hi, Thanks for recent feedback. I always read all messages and consider them, even though I deliberately avoid getting involved in some discussions:) Kind regards, Vesa
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
However - to survive in this world of ours one needs SOME money, be it an individual or a company. OK RS is still around, but Winning Recipe? Just because you are still around does not mean a winning recipe. How many copies of RS is sold per week / month / year at this stage? Enough to keep even TWO people in a wage? Are the guys developing RS ALSO involved in other areas? Aidan On 7 November 2010 20:20, Jean-Sebastien Perron j...@neuroworld.ws wrote: It's not about how much you gain money, it's about how much you spend. RS is still around because they kept the spending low. What you are kind of saying Martin is that you would favor a software based on it's users/community/popularity over the software itself. In 10 years RS will still be there with a few redefining revolutions here and there. From day 1 (RS 1.0) to today they have kept it the same. When you have a winning recipe you don't change it. What good is money if you cannot survive in difficult times and risk loosing it all. The only thing that can change is YOU and US. We can do more. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.NeuroWorld.ws On 10-11-07 11:50 AM, mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Sure you´re right, but somehow that´s the whole point, right? If Realsoft is basically just two people - and this proves to be not enough - than it should be checked if other options are available. And this just roughly correlates to the price of the product. If the expenses are doubled and so are the earnings generated by RS3D, then the equation much likely evens out - at least. To, for example, have an investor who gives money for marketing and development but also wants a percentage of the income, should at least generate the same amount of income for Vesa and Juha as is generated now, simply through increased sales, while the price could probably stay the same. Let´s face it - leading software publishers only demand high prices because they can. Because their software is the leader. If for example you compare Photoshop to some of it´s (theoretical) competitors, you will find that some of them sell for only five percent (!) of Photoshops price; while offering about 80% of Photoshops capabilities. But even if RS3D cost fifty or a hundret bucks more, users would buy it if they saw that the increased functionality was worth it. Martin Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 13:57:40 + Von: leeel...@spatial.plus.com An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft I've been using RS a long time, albeit not quite as long as Mark - just since V2 on Amiga - but like Mark, the way that RS works fits me just right (even though I'm not as active as I used to be, I still get the occasional idea for a pic and manage to 'dribble' out a few new pics each year.) I think that one of the important factors that needs to be remembered concerning RS is the price/performance trade-off that it offers. RS hasn't been produced by a large organisation, with extra staff dedicated to promotion; it's pretty much just a two-man show. I think the bottom line is you pays your money and takes your choice. If you want more support, beyond that offered by other users, then perhaps you need to pay more to a larger organisation that uses that extra money to employ promotional staff. LeeE
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
However - to survive in this world of ours one needs SOME money, be it an individual or a company. OK RS is still around, but Winning Recipe? Just because you are still around does not mean a winning recipe. How many copies of RS is sold per week / month / year at this stage? Enough to keep even TWO people in a wage? Are the guys developing RS ALSO involved in other areas? On 8 November 2010 11:57, aidan o driscoll aidan...@gmail.com wrote: However - to survive in this world of ours one needs SOME money, be it an individual or a company. OK RS is still around, but Winning Recipe? Just because you are still around does not mean a winning recipe. How many copies of RS is sold per week / month / year at this stage? Enough to keep even TWO people in a wage? Are the guys developing RS ALSO involved in other areas? Aidan On 7 November 2010 20:20, Jean-Sebastien Perron j...@neuroworld.ws wrote: It's not about how much you gain money, it's about how much you spend. RS is still around because they kept the spending low. What you are kind of saying Martin is that you would favor a software based on it's users/community/popularity over the software itself. In 10 years RS will still be there with a few redefining revolutions here and there. From day 1 (RS 1.0) to today they have kept it the same. When you have a winning recipe you don't change it. What good is money if you cannot survive in difficult times and risk loosing it all. The only thing that can change is YOU and US. We can do more. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.NeuroWorld.ws On 10-11-07 11:50 AM, mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Sure you´re right, but somehow that´s the whole point, right? If Realsoft is basically just two people - and this proves to be not enough - than it should be checked if other options are available. And this just roughly correlates to the price of the product. If the expenses are doubled and so are the earnings generated by RS3D, then the equation much likely evens out - at least. To, for example, have an investor who gives money for marketing and development but also wants a percentage of the income, should at least generate the same amount of income for Vesa and Juha as is generated now, simply through increased sales, while the price could probably stay the same. Let´s face it - leading software publishers only demand high prices because they can. Because their software is the leader. If for example you compare Photoshop to some of it´s (theoretical) competitors, you will find that some of them sell for only five percent (!) of Photoshops price; while offering about 80% of Photoshops capabilities. But even if RS3D cost fifty or a hundret bucks more, users would buy it if they saw that the increased functionality was worth it. Martin Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 13:57:40 + Von: leeel...@spatial.plus.com An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft I've been using RS a long time, albeit not quite as long as Mark - just since V2 on Amiga - but like Mark, the way that RS works fits me just right (even though I'm not as active as I used to be, I still get the occasional idea for a pic and manage to 'dribble' out a few new pics each year.) I think that one of the important factors that needs to be remembered concerning RS is the price/performance trade-off that it offers. RS hasn't been produced by a large organisation, with extra staff dedicated to promotion; it's pretty much just a two-man show. I think the bottom line is you pays your money and takes your choice. If you want more support, beyond that offered by other users, then perhaps you need to pay more to a larger organisation that uses that extra money to employ promotional staff. LeeE
Re: RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
From Beg-inner: I posted about those about those Vid tuts on the RS Site... Mark was the only one that saw my post (or replied I should say=) Well, I just looked over my email... and looked and looked, did´t find it... and then I saw it! So it hasn´t mysteriously disappeared, I just didn´t see it. Strange... But, however, the tuts are there. But, yes, I´m a naysayer, this again astounds me in a negative way, because: Why on earth wasn´t this pronounced? We´ve had discussions about these topics for years now, and the last time was just some months ago. There is existing material scattered out there, and many of the people who provided it are still around here. Why aren´t we simply asked to contribute? I mean, just fantasising, users could be asked to specify what exactly they wanted and how they wanted it, they could be incorporated into the effort. When I think about some of the few great tutorials on RS3D or some great materials and tools, then I think that even these alone would be a worthy addition to a tutorial-place on the Realsoft website. From what I recently learned about RS3D-webpresence, ressources are far and few between, and not organized in any manner. Some are hidden so good that I only stumbled upon them while searching for something completely different. Another problem with RS3Ds ressources on the web is that most of them are grossly outdated with parts of the website working no more and links long dead. But there is some nice stuff out there. So this stuff should really be organized in some way and packed into one place. And here I say to Realsoft: Please keep us informed! Please tell us what you´re planning and, for example, if/how users can contribute. Cause I too see so many cool aspects of RS3D, it fits me, like Robert said. I want that software to be successfull, but most of all I want it to get better, so I can stick to it. And I just wanna remind again, because I´ve seen even more examples in the meantime, that even once existing ressources fall away more and more. This has to be stopped. Martin Original-Nachricht Datum: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:19:09 +0100 Von: Robert den Broeder r.den.broe...@chello.nl An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft I did make an attempt to switch to 3dsmax and really wanted to like it, but couldn't. RS fits me like a glove - and I'll probably stick with it for a while. It would be great if innovative new developments were announced but my hopes are dwindling. If I can do anything to help within my limited available time I'll be happy! There's a RS dedicated empty room in my virtual office waiting to be filled but man it's so much work... regards, Mark Heuymans Well, I think that the new developments I know of are interesting :-) Good to see that you don’t like 3DS, I tried it and didn’t like it either. But the .3ds import function works, so we all have access to a huge amount of readymade objects if you like ;-) Robert -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 euro;/mtl.! Jetzt auch mit gratis Notebook-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
I've been using RS a long time, albeit not quite as long as Mark - just since V2 on Amiga - but like Mark, the way that RS works fits me just right (even though I'm not as active as I used to be, I still get the occasional idea for a pic and manage to 'dribble' out a few new pics each year.) I think that one of the important factors that needs to be remembered concerning RS is the price/performance trade-off that it offers. RS hasn't been produced by a large organisation, with extra staff dedicated to promotion; it's pretty much just a two-man show. I think the bottom line is you pays your money and takes your choice. If you want more support, beyond that offered by other users, then perhaps you need to pay more to a larger organisation that uses that extra money to employ promotional staff. LeeE
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Sure you´re right, but somehow that´s the whole point, right? If Realsoft is basically just two people - and this proves to be not enough - than it should be checked if other options are available. And this just roughly correlates to the price of the product. If the expenses are doubled and so are the earnings generated by RS3D, then the equation much likely evens out - at least. To, for example, have an investor who gives money for marketing and development but also wants a percentage of the income, should at least generate the same amount of income for Vesa and Juha as is generated now, simply through increased sales, while the price could probably stay the same. Let´s face it - leading software publishers only demand high prices because they can. Because their software is the leader. If for example you compare Photoshop to some of it´s (theoretical) competitors, you will find that some of them sell for only five percent (!) of Photoshops price; while offering about 80% of Photoshops capabilities. But even if RS3D cost fifty or a hundret bucks more, users would buy it if they saw that the increased functionality was worth it. Martin Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 13:57:40 + Von: leee l...@spatial.plus.com An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft I've been using RS a long time, albeit not quite as long as Mark - just since V2 on Amiga - but like Mark, the way that RS works fits me just right (even though I'm not as active as I used to be, I still get the occasional idea for a pic and manage to 'dribble' out a few new pics each year.) I think that one of the important factors that needs to be remembered concerning RS is the price/performance trade-off that it offers. RS hasn't been produced by a large organisation, with extra staff dedicated to promotion; it's pretty much just a two-man show. I think the bottom line is you pays your money and takes your choice. If you want more support, beyond that offered by other users, then perhaps you need to pay more to a larger organisation that uses that extra money to employ promotional staff. LeeE -- GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit über 300 Videos. Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
It's not about how much you gain money, it's about how much you spend. RS is still around because they kept the spending low. What you are kind of saying Martin is that you would favor a software based on it's users/community/popularity over the software itself. In 10 years RS will still be there with a few redefining revolutions here and there. From day 1 (RS 1.0) to today they have kept it the same. When you have a winning recipe you don't change it. What good is money if you cannot survive in difficult times and risk loosing it all. The only thing that can change is YOU and US. We can do more. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.NeuroWorld.ws On 10-11-07 11:50 AM, mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Sure you´re right, but somehow that´s the whole point, right? If Realsoft is basically just two people - and this proves to be not enough - than it should be checked if other options are available. And this just roughly correlates to the price of the product. If the expenses are doubled and so are the earnings generated by RS3D, then the equation much likely evens out - at least. To, for example, have an investor who gives money for marketing and development but also wants a percentage of the income, should at least generate the same amount of income for Vesa and Juha as is generated now, simply through increased sales, while the price could probably stay the same. Let´s face it - leading software publishers only demand high prices because they can. Because their software is the leader. If for example you compare Photoshop to some of it´s (theoretical) competitors, you will find that some of them sell for only five percent (!) of Photoshops price; while offering about 80% of Photoshops capabilities. But even if RS3D cost fifty or a hundret bucks more, users would buy it if they saw that the increased functionality was worth it. Martin Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 13:57:40 + Von: leeel...@spatial.plus.com An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft I've been using RS a long time, albeit not quite as long as Mark - just since V2 on Amiga - but like Mark, the way that RS works fits me just right (even though I'm not as active as I used to be, I still get the occasional idea for a pic and manage to 'dribble' out a few new pics each year.) I think that one of the important factors that needs to be remembered concerning RS is the price/performance trade-off that it offers. RS hasn't been produced by a large organisation, with extra staff dedicated to promotion; it's pretty much just a two-man show. I think the bottom line is you pays your money and takes your choice. If you want more support, beyond that offered by other users, then perhaps you need to pay more to a larger organisation that uses that extra money to employ promotional staff. LeeE
(Future...) RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
I hope that the new development includes some ones of my old ideas which i have tried to offer for realsoft (i am not sure that did they have lisened me i hope that they have). And those ideas/things are: Polygon faces brush cloning tool (with reflective cloning) which would also take care of direction of faces for cloning by measuring mouse movements (i think this should be more like photoshop's cloning brush tool). Polygon faces melting brush tool, which would automaticly create polygon faces to empty spaces between polgyons if user's setup's distance area is enough (with realtime preview Interactive output). Polygons' timed extruding, it is a tool which would create new extruding for polygon when user have moved his brush tool enough (it depends from setups, it can be 1mm, 1cm, 1m etc...) etc. Particle animation tools, like brush which would allow move/animate particles with tablets pen preasure set up's etc.. Node based material editing and particle simulating. Simulating materials, examples rippels affected by particle collide (like material which would react to particles collide effect etc... Two sided face rendering (materials would be nice to get rendered only with one side if users wants it but also by both sides like realsoft do right now front, back, and both). There was something else too, but i cant remember because really.. i have had so many ideas for 3d that i cant remember even couple of them... I can send them more if you wanna hear it and if i still remember them after these years... these features should have been already in v7: Cloth simulating, good rigid body simulating, soft bodies, hair simulation, rag-doll, water, fire, smoke, particle simulating etc... Good particle rendering (not post effect), good better and faster GI (i mean real GI, not fake). Sculpting tools with smear, pull, smoothing etc tools with cloning capabilitys.. Good uv-tools. Uv-set is nice idea but not good enough. Better, real subsurface scattering with smooth soft light transulent effects. Much much more material presets or channel presets for material creation. I mean hundres material presets already in material library.. and for creating materials it would be nice to create materials in easy way like: reflective blurring, transparent's blurring tool, subsurface scattering blurring with image based texturing for sss... Sorry my bad english.. And btw. I love realsoft and i want everything good to this software but it's lagging too far away from my ideas and needs (what are necesary to me right now in my life). And i have been with realsoft since year 1999. Best regards Juha M. From: r.den.broe...@chello.nl To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:19:09 +0100 I did make an attempt to switch to 3dsmax and really wanted to like it, but couldn't. RS fits me like a glove - and I'll probably stick with it for a while. It would be great if innovative new developments were announced but my hopes are dwindling. If I can do anything to help within my limited available time I'll be happy! There's a RS dedicated empty room in my virtual office waiting to be filled but man it's so much work... regards, Mark Heuymans Well, I think that the new developments I know of are interesting :-) Good to see that you don’t like 3DS, I tried it and didn’t like it either. But the .3ds import function works, so we all have access to a huge amount of readymade objects if you like ;-) Robert
RE: (Future...) RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Hi Juha, About the cloth and other simulation software, I agree. Carlo should have released the software many months ago, or at least hand over the software to RS for integrating it. Not sure what holds Carlo back.. Robert Van: owner-l...@light.realsoft3d.com [mailto:owner-l...@light.realsoft3d.com] Namens Juha Mukari Verzonden: maandag 8 november 2010 1:02 Aan: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Onderwerp: (Future...) RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft I hope that the new development includes some ones of my old ideas which i have tried to offer for realsoft (i am not sure that did they have lisened me i hope that they have). And those ideas/things are: Polygon faces brush cloning tool (with reflective cloning) which would also take care of direction of faces for cloning by measuring mouse movements (i think this should be more like photoshop's cloning brush tool). Polygon faces melting brush tool, which would automaticly create polygon faces to empty spaces between polgyons if user's setup's distance area is enough (with realtime preview Interactive output). Polygons' timed extruding, it is a tool which would create new extruding for polygon when user have moved his brush tool enough (it depends from setups, it can be 1mm, 1cm, 1m etc...) etc. Particle animation tools, like brush which would allow move/animate particles with tablets pen preasure set up's etc.. Node based material editing and particle simulating. Simulating materials, examples rippels affected by particle collide (like material which would react to particles collide effect etc... Two sided face rendering (materials would be nice to get rendered only with one side if users wants it but also by both sides like realsoft do right now front, back, and both). There was something else too, but i cant remember because really.. i have had so many ideas for 3d that i cant remember even couple of them... I can send them more if you wanna hear it and if i still remember them after these years... these features should have been already in v7: Cloth simulating, good rigid body simulating, soft bodies, hair simulation, rag-doll, water, fire, smoke, particle simulating etc... Good particle rendering (not post effect), good better and faster GI (i mean real GI, not fake). Sculpting tools with smear, pull, smoothing etc tools with cloning capabilitys.. Good uv-tools. Uv-set is nice idea but not good enough. Better, real subsurface scattering with smooth soft light transulent effects. Much much more material presets or channel presets for material creation. I mean hundres material presets already in material library.. and for creating materials it would be nice to create materials in easy way like: reflective blurring, transparent's blurring tool, subsurface scattering blurring with image based texturing for sss... Sorry my bad english.. And btw. I love realsoft and i want everything good to this software but it's lagging too far away from my ideas and needs (what are necesary to me right now in my life). And i have been with realsoft since year 1999. Best regards Juha M. From: r.den.broe...@chello.nl To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:19:09 +0100 I did make an attempt to switch to 3dsmax and really wanted to like it, but couldn't. RS fits me like a glove - and I'll probably stick with it for a while. It would be great if innovative new developments were announced but my hopes are dwindling. If I can do anything to help within my limited available time I'll be happy! There's a RS dedicated empty room in my virtual office waiting to be filled but man it's so much work... regards, Mark Heuymans Well, I think that the new developments I know of are interesting :-) Good to see that you don't like 3DS, I tried it and didn't like it either. But the .3ds import function works, so we all have access to a huge amount of readymade objects if you like ;-) Robert
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
@Jean-Sebastien: Well I surely don´t wanna dictate people to be unhappy with RS3D. ;-) But for me there are just so many loose ends. Though I have to admit that there IS a shimmer of hope. I don´t know, maybe I´m the only one who didn´t notice that. Maybe it was written about on the list and I just didn´t read it? Or may it be that it really wasn´t talked about? What I mean is - Realsofts site now features some tutorial videos. I just noticed it by chance when I was looking for something completely different. So there are now some basic tutorials, sadly without sound, but tutorials nonetheless. Did I really overlook an anouncement regarding that?? The news page contains an info about the new tutorials which dates back to october the seventh. I´m pretty much startled cause I could swear that this was not anounced on the list. If it was, people could already have gone to gather their tutorials to be uploaded to the Realsoft site. Could this perhaps even be why the Render Daemon was shut? Because it´s material was to be integrated into the official Realsoft website? Now I´m really hoping for a comment of one of the Realsoft crew to shed some light on this. Martin PS: Regarding my shader-try I should post a separate mail. Cause as it seems I could really need some help on that. I´ve already converted the formula into VSL-objects (most notably variables and operation objects), but it doesn´t do what it´s supposed to. And doing this by hand was, well, simply painfull. I practically wasted a day for something that could be written in code in a matter of minutes. So I wanna try scripting, but my problem is that I don´t really understand the syntax. I´ve found some general mathematical javascript commands but RS3D seems to use different ones; which I think to have found out by now, only to find that there don´t seem to be floatingpoint commands like sine and cosine? I can´t really believe that, especially not since they are implemented into the VSL operation object. Another problem for me is that I don´t know how to plug equations like that into the engine. For example I need the input of Light: Ray and Surface: Ray, and don´t really know how to get the data out of these channels to be used in the equations to then pass the outcome on to the Surface: Illumination channel. Oh, plus I don´t know how a VSL material would in general support mathematical formulars written in a (java)script. Would the resulting material be useable as a standalone VSL material or would it always need the script to be useable at all? However, I think I´ll just post a new message regarding that, as I wrote several lines ago now. ;-) Original-Nachricht Datum: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 17:27:37 +1300 Von: Neil Cooke n...@neilcookegraphics.co.nz An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft My rant ... Lol . I'm not out to startle ... I need the best illustration pencil I can get for my clients. It's 3D CG, in my case RS. The guys still have to promote their products ... they still need pix of their products ... 3D CG does this better than photography in all but two cases. Which 3D CG does it best is a silly question ... best fails because it is fiction ... the only thing needed is that the pic get's done, and in any 3D CG the pix will be totally OK. N. - Original Message - From: Jean-Sebastien Perron To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Maybe I can help you with your shader equation? RS shading language is similar to Renderman shading language, they are all the same. Many docs and books have been written on the subject. When I will redo my website next year, I will dust of the RS tutorial section. I will add new RS tutorials, this time to explain the 3D workflow with www.CombadZ.com It's true that the RS users are not that active anymore. It's also true also for 80% of the 3D software, even povray is abandoned (it's been out of touch with reality for 10 years now). By now everybody knows how to do 3D from A to B. It's all over the internet full of tutorials and books. There is no way someone will come with a rendering that will impress us anymore. 3D has become something boring as hand-knit? Maybe because the 3D CG wow factor is gone : nobody will get close to Avatar Even the most basic CAD software today produce incredible images : Autocad, Inventor, SolidWorks. There is nothing special about us anymore. Sorry but I'd rather play with my piss than play with particle/flow again. These things are as redundant as filming water. They are like easter egg game inside 3D software : they are time waster. When do you see particle in real life? when do you see reflections in real life? Almost never. Clothing and hair are also not moving in real life
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Martin, post your shader code or formula and I will try to do it in RS. I also wish that RS would show more on their website. RS need to simplify and make GI faster. I'd like to see more from other users. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.NeuroWorld.ws On 10-11-06 06:17 AM, mengil...@gmx.net wrote: @Jean-Sebastien: Well I surely don´t wanna dictate people to be unhappy with RS3D. ;-) But for me there are just so many loose ends. Though I have to admit that there IS a shimmer of hope. I don´t know, maybe I´m the only one who didn´t notice that. Maybe it was written about on the list and I just didn´t read it? Or may it be that it really wasn´t talked about? What I mean is - Realsofts site now features some tutorial videos. I just noticed it by chance when I was looking for something completely different. So there are now some basic tutorials, sadly without sound, but tutorials nonetheless. Did I really overlook an anouncement regarding that?? The news page contains an info about the new tutorials which dates back to october the seventh. I´m pretty much startled cause I could swear that this was not anounced on the list. If it was, people could already have gone to gather their tutorials to be uploaded to the Realsoft site. Could this perhaps even be why the Render Daemon was shut? Because it´s material was to be integrated into the official Realsoft website? Now I´m really hoping for a comment of one of the Realsoft crew to shed some light on this. Martin PS: Regarding my shader-try I should post a separate mail. Cause as it seems I could really need some help on that. I´ve already converted the formula into VSL-objects (most notably variables and operation objects), but it doesn´t do what it´s supposed to. And doing this by hand was, well, simply painfull. I practically wasted a day for something that could be written in code in a matter of minutes. So I wanna try scripting, but my problem is that I don´t really understand the syntax. I´ve found some general mathematical javascript commands but RS3D seems to use different ones; which I think to have found out by now, only to find that there don´t seem to be floatingpoint commands like sine and cosine? I can´t really believe that, especially not since they are implemented into the VSL operation object. Another problem for me is that I don´t know how to plug equations like that into the engine. For example I need the input of Light: Ray and Surface: Ray, and don´t really know how to get the data out of these channels to be used in the equations to then pass the outcome on to the Surface: Illumination channel. Oh, plus I don´t know how a VSL material would in general support mathematical formulars written in a (java)script. Would the resulting material be useable as a standalone VSL material or would it always need the script to be useable at all? However, I think I´ll just post a new message regarding that, as I wrote several lines ago now. ;-) Original-Nachricht Datum: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 17:27:37 +1300 Von: Neil Cooken...@neilcookegraphics.co.nz An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft My rant ... Lol . I'm not out to startle ... I need the best illustration pencil I can get for my clients. It's 3D CG, in my case RS. The guys still have to promote their products ... they still need pix of their products ... 3D CG does this better than photography in all but two cases. Which 3D CG does it best is a silly question ... best fails because it is fiction ... the only thing needed is that the pic get's done, and in any 3D CG the pix will be totally OK. N. - Original Message - From: Jean-Sebastien Perron To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Maybe I can help you with your shader equation? RS shading language is similar to Renderman shading language, they are all the same. Many docs and books have been written on the subject. When I will redo my website next year, I will dust of the RS tutorial section. I will add new RS tutorials, this time to explain the 3D workflow with www.CombadZ.com It's true that the RS users are not that active anymore. It's also true also for 80% of the 3D software, even povray is abandoned (it's been out of touch with reality for 10 years now). By now everybody knows how to do 3D from A to B. It's all over the internet full of tutorials and books. There is no way someone will come with a rendering that will impress us anymore. 3D has become something boring as hand-knit? Maybe because the 3D CG wow factor is gone : nobody will get close to Avatar Even the most basic CAD software today produce incredible images : Autocad, Inventor, SolidWorks. There is nothing special about us anymore. Sorry but I'd rather play with my piss than play with particle/flow again
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Hi Martin I posted about those about those Vid tuts on the RS Site... Mark was the only one that saw my post (or replied I should say=) and No, RS themselves didnt announced it here on the list..(maybe it hadnt been noticed anyway, as only one replied on my post about it=) Maybe time to get Satu back on the RS Team, she was the perfect communicator between RS and its userbase..=) (not at all that Juha and Vesa aren´t, but they have full focus on developing and coding RS and so they should have ! =) Take Care Best Regards Stefan Gustafsson ( Beg-inner ) A Proud Owner and User of Real3D and Realsoft3D.. Though I have to admit that there IS a shimmer of hope. I don´t know, maybe I´m the only one who didn´t notice that. Maybe it was written about on the list and I just didn´t read it? Or may it be that it really wasn´t talked about? What I mean is - Realsofts site now features some tutorial videos. I just noticed it by chance when I was looking for something completely different. So there are now some basic tutorials, sadly without sound, but tutorials nonetheless. Did I really overlook an anouncement regarding that?? The news page contains an info about the new tutorials which dates back to october the seventh. I´m pretty much startled cause I could swear that this was not anounced on the list. If it was, people could already have gone to gather their tutorials to be uploaded to the Realsoft site. Could this perhaps even be why the Render Daemon was shut? Because it´s material was to be integrated into the official Realsoft website? Now I´m really hoping for a comment of one of the Realsoft crew to shed some light on this. Martin
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Now I´m really hoping for a comment of one of the Realsoft crew to shed some light on this. Martin Hi Martin Very interesting thread you initiated, thanks! RS is usually especially silent when subjects like promotion and policy pop up... it's good that there are now video tuts, but man it's about time... I share your concerns about the near future of RS and the lack of progress the last few years. On the other hand, I'm with Neil, except thet I am an oldie ;) (started on an Amiga with V1.4) RS can be a very fast and productive tool to me, I've used it as a main tool for commercial stills and animation since 2005 and made a modest living with it. Things have gone downhill since the credit crunch but that has more to do with my bad business skills than the toolset I'm working with... now I'm doing low-level 'zombie' work to pay the bills and have little time left for 3d (but Athanor3d still exists in a dormant state). I did make an attempt to switch to 3dsmax and really wanted to like it, but couldn't. RS fits me like a glove - and I'll probably stick with it for a while. It would be great if innovative new developments were announced but my hopes are dwindling. If I can do anything to help within my limited available time I'll be happy! There's a RS dedicated empty room in my virtual office waiting to be filled but man it's so much work... PS: Regarding my shader-try I should post a separate mail. Cause as it seems I could really need some help on that. I´ve already converted the formula into VSL-objects (most notably variables and operation objects), but it doesn´t do what it´s supposed to. And doing this by hand was, well, simply painfull. I practically wasted a day for something that could be written in code in a matter of minutes. So I wanna try scripting, but my problem is that I don´t really understand the syntax. I´ve found some general mathematical javascript commands but RS3D seems to use different ones; which I think to have found out by now, only to find that there don´t seem to be floatingpoint commands like sine and cosine? I can´t really believe that, especially not since they are implemented into the VSL operation object. Another problem for me is that I don´t know how to plug equations like that into the engine. For example I need the input of Light: Ray and Surface: Ray, and don´t really know how to get the data out of these channels to be used in the equations to then pass the outcome on to the Surface: Illumination channel. Oh, plus I don´t know how a VSL material would in general support mathematical formulars written in a (java)script. Would the resulting material be useable as a standalone VSL material or would it always need the script to be useable at all? However, I think I´ll just post a new message regarding that, as I wrote several lines ago now. ;-) The formulas have to broken down in bits, like you say VSL does offer functions like sin, cos in Operation and most things in RS are floating point double precision. Just post the formulas and I'll try to translate it into VSL! regards, Mark Heuymans
RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
I did make an attempt to switch to 3dsmax and really wanted to like it, but couldn't. RS fits me like a glove - and I'll probably stick with it for a while. It would be great if innovative new developments were announced but my hopes are dwindling. If I can do anything to help within my limited available time I'll be happy! There's a RS dedicated empty room in my virtual office waiting to be filled but man it's so much work... regards, Mark Heuymans Well, I think that the new developments I know of are interesting :-) Good to see that you don’t like 3DS, I tried it and didn’t like it either. But the .3ds import function works, so we all have access to a huge amount of readymade objects if you like ;-) Robert
SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Hey all and hey Realsoft in special. I want to keep this decently short; had written an even longer text before. The story was that lately I´ve been trying to convert a scientific shader formula into a usable shader for RS3D. Because I´m an amateur, I need help and so I looked around for information, basically finding nothing. All in all information and general resources regarding RS3D are simply insufficient, and the issues with missing documentation and web resources are well known for years. Today there are most probably not even ten websites left that offer a notable amount of content regarding RS3D. The Wiki seems to be dead for years, the forum doesn´t even let you register an account (because of understandable issues, I know), the Render Daemon site is completely down, realsoft.info as well, and now I see that I can´t even download the v6 and v7 SDK, because, even though they are listed, their links just don´t work. It seem as if there was nobody tending to the website at all, the only useful information comes from a handful of personal websites that are scattered throughout the web. As far as I know, there isn´t even a single website anymore that somehow gathers RS3D-stuff like the Render Daemon did, not a SINGLE! This is getting unbearable. As I said, these problems are known for years, but they don´t get better, instead they seem to get worse. There seems to have been a short golden age of webpresence for RS3D, with the wiki and the forum and all. But now all that was built in that age has gone to ruin, or so it seems. There has to be something that can be done about that. As I think about it, the wiki is still there, I could contribute to it, I´ve never done that. And I would love to do that if I saw some sense in it. But just adding stuff to a personal homepage or expanding an unused wiki wouldn´t do the trick. Realsoft itself HAS to have the WILL to renew the efforts to promote and develop RS3D, this would have to be some kind of a priority for Realsoft/Vesa and Juha. And I don´t see that will, that priority. Now I can totally understand if ones own life comes in the way of other things, family to tend to, etc.. And as I understand it, that´s exactly why Realsoft kinda lags behind. But I have decided to voice my opinion in a strong manner. Because I don´t think that speaking softly does any good. Realsoft has been a small but consistent part of my life; I´ve joined this list somewhere in the ninetees. And so I don´t want to betray Realsoft by acting as if everything was ok for me somehow. Cause it´s not. Again - this is getting unbearable. When will these issues be resolved? Will they ever be? If I´m looking at the situation I´d much rather guess that RS3D will have died long before that could have happened. The somehow revolutionary RS3D v4 was released over ten years ago now, and I very much feel that it´s time to have another revolution like that. So please, Realsoft, get it going! And if you don´t think that you can handle that (because of understandable time- and priority-issues), then take the consequences. I mean, there would be several options. One would be to get an investor and hire a (bigger) staff. Another would be to sell the software or the entire company and to let someone else develop and publish the program. And yet another one would be to release RS3Ds code under an open source license. All of the above would still leave the possibility to participate in the development of RS3D, to influence it´s shape, and to simply make money with it. With an investor, existing personnel would simply be kept. And even with the investor getting some of the earnings, this would surely be overcompensated by increased sales. With the second possibility personnel could possibly stay in leading positions. Released as open source, there would be several possibilities. As I understand it, you could release it under a license that permits selling for profit, so that Realsoft could be kept as it is and sell RS3D bundled with professional customerservice. Whatever license would be chosen, participation would be pretty easy. Now I think to remember a discussion here, several years ago, where people said that RS3D could take the road that Cinema 4D had gone and get bigger. If I recall correctly, Vesa statet that he didn´t want to go that way, because he wanted to keep the company small and handleable, that he wanted to retain control over Realsoft and didn´t have the time to personally supervise a bigger company. Or at least that was the essence of what he wrote. And I can understand that attitude. But as I see it, something has to be done, if Realsoft 3D is not to disappear. If the only possible outcoming of carrying on like this is to see ones own great work becoming unnoticed, then irrelevant, then forgotten und at last burried, there has to be some action. Or so at least I think. Greetz Martin PS: In the mean time, please bring the v6 and
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Martin, Excellent points made, and I fully agree. It is getting hard to stick with RS for a hobby. Like you stated, that wow factor we had with v4 has long since faded, and I would like to see it again. I find myself unmotivated to upgrade to v7 from v6, but would like to find myself highly motivated in the future for a v8 release. I used v6 last year for a work project, and I just find it lagging behind the other software available. How many of us old timers are there still around that have the same unvoiced thoughts? Best regards, Brandon On 11/5/2010 6:43 AM, mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Hey all and hey Realsoft in special. I want to keep this decently short; had written an even longer text before. The story was that lately I´ve been trying to convert a scientific shader formula into a usable shader for RS3D. Because I´m an amateur, I need help and so I looked around for information, basically finding nothing. All in all information and general resources regarding RS3D are simply insufficient, and the issues with missing documentation and web resources are well known for years. Today there are most probably not even ten websites left that offer a notable amount of content regarding RS3D. The Wiki seems to be dead for years, the forum doesn´t even let you register an account (because of understandable issues, I know), the Render Daemon site is completely down, realsoft.info as well, and now I see that I can´t even download the v6 and v7 SDK, because, even though they are listed, their links just don´t work. It seem as if there was nobody tending to the website at all, the only useful information comes from a handful of personal websites that are scattered throughout the web. As far as I know, there isn´t even a single website anymore that somehow gathers RS3D-stuff like the Render Daemon did, not a SINGLE! This is getting unbearable. As I said, these problems are known for years, but they don´t get better, instead they seem to get worse. There seems to have been a short golden age of webpresence for RS3D, with the wiki and the forum and all. But now all that was built in that age has gone to ruin, or so it seems. There has to be something that can be done about that. As I think about it, the wiki is still there, I could contribute to it, I´ve never done that. And I would love to do that if I saw some sense in it. But just adding stuff to a personal homepage or expanding an unused wiki wouldn´t do the trick. Realsoft itself HAS to have the WILL to renew the efforts to promote and develop RS3D, this would have to be some kind of a priority for Realsoft/Vesa and Juha. And I don´t see that will, that priority. Now I can totally understand if ones own life comes in the way of other things, family to tend to, etc.. And as I understand it, that´s exactly why Realsoft kinda lags behind. But I have decided to voice my opinion in a strong manner. Because I don´t think that speaking softly does any good. Realsoft has been a small but consistent part of my life; I´ve joined this list somewhere in the ninetees. And so I don´t want to betray Realsoft by acting as if everything was ok for me somehow. Cause it´s not. Again - this is getting unbearable. When will these issues be resolved? Will they ever be? If I´m looking at the situation I´d much rather guess that RS3D will have died long before that could have happened. The somehow revolutionary RS3D v4 was released over ten years ago now, and I very much feel that it´s time to have another revolution like that. So please, Realsoft, get it going! And if you don´t think that you can handle that (because of understandable time- and priority-issues), then take the consequences. I mean, there would be several options. One would be to get an investor and hire a (bigger) staff. Another would be to sell the software or the entire company and to let someone else develop and publish the program. And yet another one would be to release RS3Ds code under an open source license. All of the above would still leave the possibility to participate in the development of RS3D, to influence it´s shape, and to simply make money with it. With an investor, existing personnel would simply be kept. And even with the investor getting some of the earnings, this would surely be overcompensated by increased sales. With the second possibility personnel could possibly stay in leading positions. Released as open source, there would be several possibilities. As I understand it, you could release it under a license that permits selling for profit, so that Realsoft could be kept as it is and sell RS3D bundled with professional customerservice. Whatever license would be chosen, participation would be pretty easy. Now I think to remember a discussion here, several years ago, where people said that RS3D could take the road that Cinema 4D had gone and get bigger. If I recall correctly, Vesa statet that he didn´t want to go that way, because he
RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Yes, realsoft is lagging behind far far away... :( That's the most reason why i moved to cinema 4d, its great software. I also would like to see the wow effect in near future in realsoft, but i think we aren't gonna see that in many many years. :( v4 was great, awesom i would say. It's sad that realsoft is lagging behind... Realsoft was very good software few years ago, but i didnt saw any reason to move for v7 user in realsoft anymore because there wasnt nothing great feature which i would need. I need simulation tools, like cloth, rigid body, soft dynamics, great particle simulation like thinking particles, water simulation, explosion simulations and more. Fast rendering like octane (with gpu) or v-ray 2.0 (with gpu). Or hair simulation with tools which you can edit hairs as lot as you want. So i can say that the most what realsoft gonna need is good and complex simulation with simple tools (i mean tools which are easy to use). I also like cinema's particle rendering, its many light years forward if you compare it to realsoft. Also subsurface scattering was much better in cinema 4d. I also like the way how you can edit materials and create materials in cinema 4d, it is much much much easier than in realsoft because tehre's no lots of presets. I wish good luck to realsoft in future and i wish it gonna take an example from cinema 4d's and octane. Best regards, Juha Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 08:30:57 -0600 From: rsl...@silvergravity.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Martin, Excellent points made, and I fully agree. It is getting hard to stick with RS for a hobby. Like you stated, that wow factor we had with v4 has long since faded, and I would like to see it again. I find myself unmotivated to upgrade to v7 from v6, but would like to find myself highly motivated in the future for a v8 release. I used v6 last year for a work project, and I just find it lagging behind the other software available. How many of us old timers are there still around that have the same unvoiced thoughts? Best regards, Brandon On 11/5/2010 6:43 AM, mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Hey all and hey Realsoft in special. I want to keep this decently short; had written an even longer text before. The story was that lately I´ve been trying to convert a scientific shader formula into a usable shader for RS3D. Because I´m an amateur, I need help and so I looked around for information, basically finding nothing. All in all information and general resources regarding RS3D are simply insufficient, and the issues with missing documentation and web resources are well known for years. Today there are most probably not even ten websites left that offer a notable amount of content regarding RS3D. The Wiki seems to be dead for years, the forum doesn´t even let you register an account (because of understandable issues, I know), the Render Daemon site is completely down, realsoft.info as well, and now I see that I can´t even download the v6 and v7 SDK, because, even though they are listed, their links just don´t work. It seem as if there was nobody tending to the website at all, the only useful information comes from a handful of personal websites that are scattered throughout the web. As far as I know, there isn´t even a single website anymore that somehow gathers RS3D-stuff like the Render Daemon did, not a SINGLE! This is getting unbearable. As I said, these problems are known for years, but they don´t get better, instead they seem to get worse. There seems to have been a short golden age of webpresence for RS3D, with the wiki and the forum and all. But now all that was built in that age has gone to ruin, or so it seems. There has to be something that can be done about that. As I think about it, the wiki is still there, I could contribute to it, I´ve never done that. And I would love to do that if I saw some sense in it. But just adding stuff to a personal homepage or expanding an unused wiki wouldn´t do the trick. Realsoft itself HAS to have the WILL to renew the efforts to promote and develop RS3D, this would have to be some kind of a priority for Realsoft/Vesa and Juha. And I don´t see that will, that priority. Now I can totally understand if ones own life comes in the way of other things, family to tend to, etc.. And as I understand it, that´s exactly why Realsoft kinda lags behind. But I have decided to voice my opinion in a strong manner. Because I don´t think that speaking softly does any good. Realsoft has been a small but consistent part of my life; I´ve joined this list somewhere in the ninetees. And so I don´t want to betray Realsoft by acting as if everything was ok for me somehow. Cause it´s not. Again - this is getting unbearable. When will these issues be resolved? Will they ever be? If I
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Hi Folks, Two cents I'm not an old timer ... been with RS since 2004. But I have no intention of shifting, I use it on a daily basis, it does everything I need and more. I dont know any other 3D app and have no need to move. RS is perfect for my needs and I enjoy drawing with it. My purpose is to have RS as a tool in commercial illustration and graphic art studio. Occasionally some animation work. It is not a hobby for me. The support I have received when ever I have become stuck with some aspect has been superb. Thanks Neil Cooke From: Brandon rsl...@silvergravity.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sat, 6 November, 2010 3:30:57 AM Subject: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Martin, Excellent points made, and I fully agree. It is getting hard to stick with RS for a hobby. Like you stated, that wow factor we had with v4 has long since faded, and I would like to see it again. I find myself unmotivated to upgrade to v7 from v6, but would like to find myself highly motivated in the future for a v8 release. I used v6 last year for a work project, and I just find it lagging behind the other software available. How many of us old timers are there still around that have the same unvoiced thoughts? Best regards, Brandon On 11/5/2010 6:43 AM, mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Hey all and hey Realsoft in special. I want to keep this decently short; had written an even longer text before. The story was that lately I´ve been trying to convert a scientific shader formula into a usable shader for RS3D. Because I´m an amateur, I need help and so I looked around for information, basically finding nothing. All in all information and general resources regarding RS3D are simply insufficient, and the issues with missing documentation and web resources are well known for years. Today there are most probably not even ten websites left that offer a notable amount of content regarding RS3D. The Wiki seems to be dead for years, the forum doesn´t even let you register an account (because of understandable issues, I know), the Render Daemon site is completely down, realsoft.info as well, and now I see that I can´t even download the v6 and v7 SDK, because, even though they are listed, their links just don´t work. It seem as if there was nobody tending to the website at all, the only useful information comes from a handful of personal websites that are scattered throughout the web. As far as I know, there isn´t even a single website anymore that somehow gathers RS3D-stuff like the Render Daemon did, not a SINGLE! This is getting unbearable. As I said, these problems are known for years, but they don´t get better, instead they seem to get worse. There seems to have been a short golden age of webpresence for RS3D, with the wiki and the forum and all. But now all that was built in that age has gone to ruin, or so it seems. There has to be something that can be done about that. As I think about it, the wiki is still there, I could contribute to it, I´ve never done that. And I would love to do that if I saw some sense in it. But just adding stuff to a personal homepage or expanding an unused wiki wouldn´t do the trick. Realsoft itself HAS to have the WILL to renew the efforts to promote and develop RS3D, this would have to be some kind of a priority for Realsoft/Vesa and Juha. And I don´t see that will, that priority. Now I can totally understand if ones own life comes in the way of other things, family to tend to, etc.. And as I understand it, that´s exactly why Realsoft kinda lags behind. But I have decided to voice my opinion in a strong manner. Because I don´t think that speaking softly does any good. Realsoft has been a small but consistent part of my life; I´ve joined this list somewhere in the ninetees. And so I don´t want to betray Realsoft by acting as if everything was ok for me somehow. Cause it´s not. Again - this is getting unbearable. When will these issues be resolved? Will they ever be? If I´m looking at the situation I´d much rather guess that RS3D will have died long before that could have happened. The somehow revolutionary RS3D v4 was released over ten years ago now, and I very much feel that it´s time to have another revolution like that. So please, Realsoft, get it going! And if you don´t think that you can handle that (because of understandable time- and priority-issues), then take the consequences. I mean, there would be several options. One would be to get an investor and hire a (bigger) staff. Another would be to sell the software or the entire company and to let someone else develop and publish the program. And yet another one would be to release RS3Ds code under an open source license. All of the above would still leave the possibility to participate in the development of RS3D, to influence it´s shape, and to simply make money
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Well said Neil. Just to clarify, I didn't mean anything against anyone's length of time with RS. I have been here since '94, but still consider you an 'old timer' :) To clarify on my hobby comment, I have had to use other more developed programs for my job because RS was just not up to the task (like many others have had to do) or didn't fit the pipeline imposed on me by others. I think David Ingebretsen still lurks faithfully on the list, but I think RS has likely fallen to a hobby-passion level with him also years ago, as I don't believe he does his accident recreations with RS (I may be completely wrong, and will gladly eat these words if so). Aside from work I have always loved RS and want to support and use it as much as possible, but have found myself wanting more, as Martin expressed. I enjoy your work Neil - keep it up. Happy rendering, Brandon On 11/5/2010 11:20 AM, Neil Cooke wrote: Hi Folks, Two cents I'm not an old timer ... been with RS since 2004. But I have no intention of shifting, I use it on a daily basis, it does everything I need and more. I dont know any other 3D app and have no need to move. RS is perfect for my needs and I enjoy drawing with it. My purpose is to have RS as a tool in commercial illustration and graphic art studio. Occasionally some animation work. It is not a hobby for me. The support I have received when ever I have become stuck with some aspect has been superb. Thanks Neil Cooke *From:* Brandon rsl...@silvergravity.com *To:* user-list@light.realsoft3d.com *Sent:* Sat, 6 November, 2010 3:30:57 AM *Subject:* Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Martin, Excellent points made, and I fully agree. It is getting hard to stick with RS for a hobby. Like you stated, that wow factor we had with v4 has long since faded, and I would like to see it again. I find myself unmotivated to upgrade to v7 from v6, but would like to find myself highly motivated in the future for a v8 release. I used v6 last year for a work project, and I just find it lagging behind the other software available. How many of us old timers are there still around that have the same unvoiced thoughts? Best regards, Brandon On 11/5/2010 6:43 AM, mengil...@gmx.net mailto:mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Hey all and hey Realsoft in special. I want to keep this decently short; had written an even longer text before. The story was that lately I´ve been trying to convert a scientific shader formula into a usable shader for RS3D. Because I´m an amateur, I need help and so I looked around for information, basically finding nothing. All in all information and general resources regarding RS3D are simply insufficient, and the issues with missing documentation and web resources are well known for years. Today there are most probably not even ten websites left that offer a notable amount of content regarding RS3D. The Wiki seems to be dead for years, the forum doesn´t even let you register an account (because of understandable issues, I know), the Render Daemon site is completely down, realsoft.info as well, and now I see that I can´t even download the v6 and v7 SDK, because, even though they are listed, their links just don´t work. It seem as if there was nobody tending to the website at all, the only useful information comes from a handful of personal websites that are scattered throughout the web. As far as I know, there isn´t even a single website anymore that somehow gathers RS3D-stuff like the Render Daemon did, not a SINGLE! This is getting unbearable. As I said, these problems are known for years, but they don´t get better, instead they seem to get worse. There seems to have been a short golden age of webpresence for RS3D, with the wiki and the forum and all. But now all that was built in that age has gone to ruin, or so it seems. There has to be something that can be done about that. As I think about it, the wiki is still there, I could contribute to it, I´ve never done that. And I would love to do that if I saw some sense in it. But just adding stuff to a personal homepage or expanding an unused wiki wouldn´t do the trick. Realsoft itself HAS to have the WILL to renew the efforts to promote and develop RS3D, this would have to be some kind of a priority for Realsoft/Vesa and Juha. And I don´t see that will, that priority. Now I can totally understand if ones own life comes in the way of other things, family to tend to, etc.. And as I understand it, that´s exactly why Realsoft kinda lags behind. But I have decided to voice my opinion in a strong manner. Because I don´t think that speaking softly does any good. Realsoft has been a small but consistent part of my life; I´ve joined this list somewhere in the ninetees. And so I don´t want to betray Realsoft by acting as if everything was ok for me somehow. Cause it´s not. Again
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
I recently returned to RS3D after a couple of years, wishing I'd had time to use it more frequently. I was shocked at the deterioration of the community. It was like entering a ghost town; so many resources had vanished or been abandoned. Even the mailing list was silent. Unfortunately, there's very little the community can do without Realsoft's initiative. I'm not abandoning the software, and keep up with upgrades. Interestingly, there aren't any good alternatives for Linux (my preferred platform). It would be a real shame for this venerable software to fade away...
RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Yes it would be. But it seems very realistic right now :( I thought tehre is lots of posibilities to use different softwares in linux(atleast under wine emulator). There is atleast Houdini, Maya and softimage. If i remember right. Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 19:32:54 + From: fractall...@csi.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft I recently returned to RS3D after a couple of years, wishing I'd had time to use it more frequently. I was shocked at the deterioration of the community. It was like entering a ghost town; so many resources had vanished or been abandoned. Even the mailing list was silent. Unfortunately, there's very little the community can do without Realsoft's initiative. I'm not abandoning the software, and keep up with upgrades. Interestingly, there aren't any good alternatives for Linux (my preferred platform). It would be a real shame for this venerable software to fade away...
Re: RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
@Amir: Yeah, this ghost town metaphor fits quite well. @Neil: The support here on the list is excellent, sure. Because you have so many people with great experience here that are glad to share it with you. Still a mailing list is a very slow and awkward way of communication, compared to a forum, especially for beginners that couldn´t possibly ask all the things here on the list that they still don´t know about. Regarding your usage of RS3D: What is it exactly that makes it the perfect tool for you? @Brandon Juha: I think there are MANY things that should be improved in RS3D. So many perhaps, that it would be difficult to improve them all at once. I suppose it would be best to focus on the biggest problems first while improving that which is already good but not excellent. For me that would e.g. mean a solid rendering system with a node-based VSL-editor, subsurface scattering, diffraction, much better and easier GI, and on the other hand things like better SDS tools like edge-slide, inserting edges, a more powerful and more fully integrated selection-set system. Etc.. The biggest problems I see with RS3Ds capabilities is that it´s hard to use them in a pipeline, while they alone at the same time often don´t suffice, compared to other programs. As stated a few months ago, there even are freeware renderers that do better than RS3Ds own engine, and quite a bunch of them. So I would consider it crucial to make RS3D more compatible with other software (easy and reliable UV-Map editing and im- and export, COLLADA capability, etc.) while at the same time making it more attractive to stay within the program for e.g. rendering. When it comes to particle systems, the Bullet Physics Engine seems to get a tight hold on the 3D market. I get the impression that nearly every even vaguely notable 3D-package is updated to contain particle simulation. Now I am not educated enough to say which particle engine is better, but Carlo`s/Dynadream`s Chrono seems to be quite a thing. As was stated a few weeks ago here, Chrono could very well be integrated into RS3D, if Realsoft and Dynadream would come to an agreement. Realman could also be (re-)integrated (or is it already integrated again with v7?). However, it would be quite an effort to update the program extensively plus redesigning the web presence and improving the documentation. On the other hand I believe that it won´t be many many years till we see that wow effect again; I rather believe that we won´t see it at all if it´s not focused on in the nearest future. Cause, no disrespects for the developers, but I also considered to buy v7 but didn´t see the arguments for it. It rather seemed to me like a more extensive servicepack than a real new full version. At the same time others offer flawless GI, SSS... all the things that RS3D lacks, and are extending even more to encompass said GPGPU acceleration, sculpting, painting, or easy and powerful volume rendering. Given RS3Ds current development speed, other software, and not only the top five, will have long implemented and perfected those features when RS3D has gotten that what they already have today. At this pace RS3D isn´t going to make it. Of course there are people for who RS3D is the perfect tool (like Neil), but the overall image I´m getting is that more and more users turn away from RS3D and that even already established ressources disappear. Greetz Martin PS: I don´t know of Houdini on Linux, but Maya and Softimage seem to work natively, even if they seem to be a bit picky when it comes to the choice of the distribution. And Blender is at home on Linux, of course. Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 21:08:22 +0200 Von: Juha Mukari cosmi...@windowslive.com An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Yes it would be. But it seems very realistic right now :( I thought tehre is lots of posibilities to use different softwares in linux(atleast under wine emulator). There is atleast Houdini, Maya and softimage. If i remember right. Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 19:32:54 + From: fractall...@csi.com To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft I recently returned to RS3D after a couple of years, wishing I'd had time to use it more frequently. I was shocked at the deterioration of the community. It was like entering a ghost town; so many resources had vanished or been abandoned. Even the mailing list was silent. Unfortunately, there's very little the community can do without Realsoft's initiative. I'm not abandoning the software, and keep up with upgrades. Interestingly, there aren't any good alternatives for Linux (my preferred platform). It would be a real shame for this venerable software to fade away... -- Neu: GMX De-Mail - Einfach wie E-Mail, sicher wie ein Brief! Jetzt
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
I always buy new versions to support the software. 3D is a very competitive market, but I prefer RS3D for its clean 'mathematical' feel that distinguishes it from, say, Blender. Features and new technologies are critical though. It's the Red Queen's race at work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen's_Hypothesis). On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 20:27:39 +0100 mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Cause, no disrespects for the developers, but I also considered to buy v7 but didn´t see the arguments for it. It rather seemed to me like a more extensive servicepack than a real new full version. Of course there are people for who RS3D is the perfect tool (like Neil), but the overall image I´m getting is that more and more users turn away from RS3D and that even already established ressources disappear.
Re: RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
@Neil: The support here on the list is excellent, sure. Because you have so many people with great experience here that are glad to share it with you. Still a mailing list is a very slow and awkward way of communication, compared to a forum, especially for beginners that couldn´t possibly ask all the things here on the list that they still don´t know about. Regarding your usage of RS3D: What is it exactly that makes it the perfect tool for you? All good 1. I feel the experience is there and I am glad to share too. This is of huge worth to me. I once struck a snak and Vesa worked overnight to get the patch back to me. Similar could be said of other apps of course. 2. Forums fail I feel, because they expectconstant daily input. This is simply not the case for me and wouldnt be the case for me with any other app either. I usually need to know only one thing and I need to know it at the time I post to the User List and the answer(s) are always right there for me. Again, this is part of Forums too. 3. RS3D is perfect for me because I have stuck with it and learnt to solve the things I specifically needed within it. It is important to note that I am a newbie in the sense of having no prior contact with any 3D CG app. It was a case of first UI you learn I couldnt change to another app if my life depended on it. I have some Comp skills but ... like Linux? Forget it for me, I'd never get the thing even onto the screen! I'm an old guy, 60, I have decades of graphics but only a few years CG. So ... my case might be unique in this. RS is just the one I started with and it does all that I want from it. I dont think Forums would (have ever) work for RS, people are too busy to chat all day. But they are there to help and we all do this. Neil Cooke - Original Message - From: mengil...@gmx.net To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 8:27 AM Subject: Re: RE: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft @Amir: Yeah, this ghost town metaphor fits quite well. @Neil: The support here on the list is excellent, sure. Because you have so many people with great experience here that are glad to share it with you. Still a mailing list is a very slow and awkward way of communication, compared to a forum, especially for beginners that couldn´t possibly ask all the things here on the list that they still don´t know about. Regarding your usage of RS3D: What is it exactly that makes it the perfect tool for you? @Brandon Juha: I think there are MANY things that should be improved in RS3D. So many perhaps, that it would be difficult to improve them all at once. I suppose it would be best to focus on the biggest problems first while improving that which is already good but not excellent. For me that would e.g. mean a solid rendering system with a node-based VSL-editor, subsurface scattering, diffraction, much better and easier GI, and on the other hand things like better SDS tools like edge-slide, inserting edges, a more powerful and more fully integrated selection-set system. Etc.. The biggest problems I see with RS3Ds capabilities is that it´s hard to use them in a pipeline, while they alone at the same time often don´t suffice, compared to other programs. As stated a few months ago, there even are freeware renderers that do better than RS3Ds own engine, and quite a bunch of them. So I would consider it crucial to make RS3D more compatible with other software (easy and reliable UV-Map editing and im- and export, COLLADA capability, etc.) while at the same time making it more attractive to stay within the program for e.g. rendering. When it comes to particle systems, the Bullet Physics Engine seems to get a tight hold on the 3D market. I get the impression that nearly every even vaguely notable 3D-package is updated to contain particle simulation. Now I am not educated enough to say which particle engine is better, but Carlo`s/Dynadream`s Chrono seems to be quite a thing. As was stated a few weeks ago here, Chrono could very well be integrated into RS3D, if Realsoft and Dynadream would come to an agreement. Realman could also be (re-)integrated (or is it already integrated again with v7?). However, it would be quite an effort to update the program extensively plus redesigning the web presence and improving the documentation. On the other hand I believe that it won´t be many many years till we see that wow effect again; I rather believe that we won´t see it at all if it´s not focused on in the nearest future. Cause, no disrespects for the developers, but I also considered to buy v7 but didn´t see the arguments for it. It rather seemed to me like a more extensive servicepack than a real new full version. At the same time others offer flawless GI, SSS... all the things that RS3D lacks, and are extending even more to encompass said GPGPU acceleration, sculpting, painting, or easy and powerful volume rendering. Given RS3Ds
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
ut I prefer RS3D for its clean 'mathematical' feel that distinguishes it from, say, Blender. Have you recently tried BLENDER 2.5?? New UI .. and so on. My argument for Blender, because it is FREE, it can be used ALONGSIDE the likes of RS to access features that RS does not nor will probably NOT have for a good while ( if at all ). I stopped RS Upgr at 5, to be honest it will take a massive over haul before I will put more upgrade money into it. Currently I use MODO 4 ( 5 on way ), blender 2.5, bit of Zbrush and doodle with FREE Sculptris. OK - some use RS because their toolset requirements are narrow. And these people will hear nothing said about RS, its fine for them. But the world is a big place with many 3D users who need other things. These ex RS users had to go elsewhere - what more can one expect. Its a very narrow view to have saying that RS does me fine so sod the rest of ye. I like it the way it is FOR ME ME ME. If thats what RS dev team want then all the best, good luck and thanks for all the fish, thats no market! Aidan On 5 November 2010 20:41, Amir Ansari fractall...@csi.com wrote: I always buy new versions to support the software. 3D is a very competitive market, but I prefer RS3D for its clean 'mathematical' feel that distinguishes it from, say, Blender. Features and new technologies are critical though. It's the Red Queen's race at work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen's_Hypothesis). On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 20:27:39 +0100 mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Cause, no disrespects for the developers, but I also considered to buy v7 but didn´t see the arguments for it. It rather seemed to me like a more extensive servicepack than a real new full version. Of course there are people for who RS3D is the perfect tool (like Neil), but the overall image I´m getting is that more and more users turn away from RS3D and that even already established ressources disappear.
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
@Neil: Well, I do respect if you´re fine with what RS3D has to offer; where should there be a problem? It didn´t appear to me as if you had said that all was fine just because YOU were fine with RS3D. Still I feel like there are not that many people who are totaly happy with RS3D. For beginners it is still to complicated in some respects, for a pro it may have severe issues, depending on the type of work of course. In general I would say that many things simply take longer in RS3D. In Modo for example you just apply a material and turn things like diffraction, diffusion, SSS on or of like you want, simply plug in a picture and assign it to a channel, etc. In RS3D you either go hunting for a fitting material somewhere out there on the net, or you go and program it yourself - if you can. Plus what I saw of blurry reflections for example seemed to me like 30 times slower than with other software. About forums there is one big plus and that is easy accessibility and information structuring. How many problems have I solved by finding someone discussing the same problem within an online forum, available through a searchengine, sometimes years ago? Occasionally you also get email-list entries on a search, but even if you do, these are not as fast to skim through. @Aidan: Regarding I prefer RS3D for its clean 'mathematical' feel that distinguishes it from, say, Blender. Yes, Blender has gotten MUCH better. So good that I suppose that in five years it will begin to endanger smaller and mid-range packages. But the notion of RS3Ds clean mathematical feel is understandable to me. I too would say that there is an air of solidness about RS3D, and that is something I always liked about the program. So many mechanics are just straightforward and simply work. But then at some point there is a fissure where things that should be simple get unneccessary complicated. Has anyone ever managed to learn how the move/scale 1d/2d/3d tools work? I´ve tried them so many times and still have no real idea of how to apply them; even though I know that they should theoretically be very powerful - and even though I often knew exactly what I wanted to achieve. Regarding the rest of your mail: I know it´s somewhat hard to say but it´s somehow good to see another person that´s unhappy with the way RS3D goes. Cause the more people show that they´re unhappy, the more Realsoft will see that there really seems to be an issue here. As I see it, the worst thing that can happen to a company customer-relations-wise is sweettalking of these customers. And if even a notable percentile of the core of the loyal userbase (I don´t want to sound pridefull or dramatic, but I think that people that frequent this list for years are something like the loyal core of customers)... voices its concerns, and that over and over again, it should get clear that something is wrong. Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 20:41:32 + Von: aidan o driscoll aidan...@eircom.net An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft ut I prefer RS3D for its clean 'mathematical' feel that distinguishes it from, say, Blender. Have you recently tried BLENDER 2.5?? New UI .. and so on. My argument for Blender, because it is FREE, it can be used ALONGSIDE the likes of RS to access features that RS does not nor will probably NOT have for a good while ( if at all ). I stopped RS Upgr at 5, to be honest it will take a massive over haul before I will put more upgrade money into it. Currently I use MODO 4 ( 5 on way ), blender 2.5, bit of Zbrush and doodle with FREE Sculptris. OK - some use RS because their toolset requirements are narrow. And these people will hear nothing said about RS, its fine for them. But the world is a big place with many 3D users who need other things. These ex RS users had to go elsewhere - what more can one expect. Its a very narrow view to have saying that RS does me fine so sod the rest of ye. I like it the way it is FOR ME ME ME. If thats what RS dev team want then all the best, good luck and thanks for all the fish, thats no market! Aidan On 5 November 2010 20:41, Amir Ansari fractall...@csi.com wrote: I always buy new versions to support the software. 3D is a very competitive market, but I prefer RS3D for its clean 'mathematical' feel that distinguishes it from, say, Blender. Features and new technologies are critical though. It's the Red Queen's race at work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen's_Hypothesis). On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 20:27:39 +0100 mengil...@gmx.net wrote: Cause, no disrespects for the developers, but I also considered to buy v7 but didn´t see the arguments for it. It rather seemed to me like a more extensive servicepack than a real new full version. Of course there are people for who RS3D is the perfect tool (like Neil), but the overall image I´m getting is that more
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Certainly, others have different needs. I can only put my own case and I take pains to make that clear. Beginners the learning curve is vicious, but then again, that is a personal conclusion from one who had no previous experience with 3D CG. But for the life of me, I cant see how that learning requirement can be helped. I would not like to see easier and therefore less controllable options but this is hindsight having persevered and figured out the things I use. Anyway, two more cents. Lol.. Neil Cooke From: mengil...@gmx.net mengil...@gmx.net To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Sat, 6 November, 2010 11:29:01 AM Subject: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft @Neil: Well, I do respect if you´re fine with what RS3D has to offer; where should there be a problem? It didn´t appear to me as if you had said that all was fine just because YOU were fine with RS3D. Still I feel like there are not that many people who are totaly happy with RS3D. For beginners it is still to complicated in some respects, for a pro it may have severe issues, depending on the type of work of course. In general I would say that many things simply take longer in RS3D. In Modo for example you just apply a material and turn things like diffraction, diffusion, SSS on or of like you want, simply plug in a picture and assign it to a channel, etc. In RS3D you either go hunting for a fitting material somewhere out there on the net, or you go and program it yourself - if you can. Plus what I saw of blurry reflections for example seemed to me like 30 times slower than with other software. About forums there is one big plus and that is easy accessibility and information structuring. How many problems have I solved by finding someone discussing the same problem within an online forum, available through a searchengine, sometimes years ago? Occasionally you also get email-list entries on a search, but even if you do, these are not as fast to skim through. @Aidan: Regarding I prefer RS3D for its clean 'mathematical' feel that distinguishes it from, say, Blender. Yes, Blender has gotten MUCH better. So good that I suppose that in five years it will begin to endanger smaller and mid-range packages. But the notion of RS3Ds clean mathematical feel is understandable to me. I too would say that there is an air of solidness about RS3D, and that is something I always liked about the program. So many mechanics are just straightforward and simply work. But then at some point there is a fissure where things that should be simple get unneccessary complicated. Has anyone ever managed to learn how the move/scale 1d/2d/3d tools work? I´ve tried them so many times and still have no real idea of how to apply them; even though I know that they should theoretically be very powerful - and even though I often knew exactly what I wanted to achieve. Regarding the rest of your mail: I know it´s somewhat hard to say but it´s somehow good to see another person that´s unhappy with the way RS3D goes. Cause the more people show that they´re unhappy, the more Realsoft will see that there really seems to be an issue here. As I see it, the worst thing that can happen to a company customer-relations-wise is sweettalking of these customers. And if even a notable percentile of the core of the loyal userbase (I don´t want to sound pridefull or dramatic, but I think that people that frequent this list for years are something like the loyal core of customers)... voices its concerns, and that over and over again, it should get clear that something is wrong. Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 20:41:32 + Von: aidan o driscoll aidan...@eircom.net An: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Betreff: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft ut I prefer RS3D for its clean 'mathematical' feel that distinguishes it from, say, Blender. Have you recently tried BLENDER 2.5?? New UI .. and so on. My argument for Blender, because it is FREE, it can be used ALONGSIDE the likes of RS to access features that RS does not nor will probably NOT have for a good while ( if at all ).. I stopped RS Upgr at 5, to be honest it will take a massive over haul before I will put more upgrade money into it. Currently I use MODO 4 ( 5 on way ), blender 2.5, bit of Zbrush and doodle with FREE Sculptris. OK - some use RS because their toolset requirements are narrow. And these people will hear nothing said about RS, its fine for them. But the world is a big place with many 3D users who need other things. These ex RS users had to go elsewhere - what more can one expect. Its a very narrow view to have saying that RS does me fine so sod the rest of ye. I like it the way it is FOR ME ME ME. If thats what RS dev team want then all the best, good luck and thanks for all the fish, thats no market! Aidan On 5 November 2010 20:41, Amir Ansari fractall...@csi.com wrote
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
Maybe I can help you with your shader equation? RS shading language is similar to Renderman shading language, they are all the same. Many docs and books have been written on the subject. When I will redo my website next year, I will dust of the RS tutorial section. I will add new RS tutorials, this time to explain the 3D workflow with www.CombadZ.com It's true that the RS users are not that active anymore. It's also true also for 80% of the 3D software, even povray is abandoned (it's been out of touch with reality for 10 years now). By now everybody knows how to do 3D from A to B. It's all over the internet full of tutorials and books. There is no way someone will come with a rendering that will impress us anymore. 3D has become something boring as "hand-knit?" Maybe because the 3D CG wow factor is gone : nobody will get close to "Avatar" Even the most basic CAD software today produce incredible images : Autocad, Inventor, SolidWorks. There is nothing special about us anymore. Sorry but I'd rather play with my piss than play with particle/flow again. These things are as redundant as filming water. They are like easter egg game inside 3D software : they are time waster. When do you see particle in real life? when do you see reflections in real life? Almost never. Clothing and hair are also not moving in real life (95% of the time). Avatar could have been made with RS. What I have seen since 1989 in the 3D world : a lot of people trying and abandoning. Most people get frustrated quickly and blame the software for their lack of will, imagination, talent and resourcefulness. Sorry I get frustrated by particles, flow and physics in 3D software. Recently I have met a young guy who wanted to 3D animation. But instead he got stuck like most newcomers in playing with particles endlessly totally hypnotised doing nothing else. After 3 months of watching his numerous "Realflow" videos (look like pissing on every kind of geometry possible) , he finally quit 3D. Particles create spectacular animation without any effort nor planning. It's good to wow yourself for a while, but eventually you will have to produce something worth watching. Blaming the powerful software we have nowadays is as ridiculous as blaming a pen, a brush, sculpting knive for the poor result. I don't care if I am the only one in the world using RS. I use it because I like it. I don't need the world to approve it. I don't need to know that RS is the most trendy software. 80% of the world use Microsoft Windows, does that make it the best. Hell no! Yes , Martin you are 100% right and at the same time I don't see it as a problem anymore. Cinema 4Pay, is just the concept of selling a software in pieces at a higher price. And selling them their favorite videogame : particles. As usual don't consider this rant too seriously. I'm probably just trolling again ; ) Jean-Sebastien Perron www.NeuroWorld.ws
Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft
My rant ... Lol . I'm not out to startle ... I need the best illustration pencil I can get for my clients. It's 3D CG, in my case RS. The guys still have to promote their products ... they still need pix of their products ... 3D CG does this better than photography in all but two cases. Which 3D CG does it best is a silly question ... best fails because it is fiction ... the only thing needed is that the pic get's done, and in any 3D CG the pix will be totally OK. N. - Original Message - From: Jean-Sebastien Perron To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: Re: SDK/ sites down/ frustration/Realsoft Maybe I can help you with your shader equation? RS shading language is similar to Renderman shading language, they are all the same. Many docs and books have been written on the subject. When I will redo my website next year, I will dust of the RS tutorial section. I will add new RS tutorials, this time to explain the 3D workflow with www.CombadZ.com It's true that the RS users are not that active anymore. It's also true also for 80% of the 3D software, even povray is abandoned (it's been out of touch with reality for 10 years now). By now everybody knows how to do 3D from A to B. It's all over the internet full of tutorials and books. There is no way someone will come with a rendering that will impress us anymore. 3D has become something boring as hand-knit? Maybe because the 3D CG wow factor is gone : nobody will get close to Avatar Even the most basic CAD software today produce incredible images : Autocad, Inventor, SolidWorks. There is nothing special about us anymore. Sorry but I'd rather play with my piss than play with particle/flow again. These things are as redundant as filming water. They are like easter egg game inside 3D software : they are time waster. When do you see particle in real life? when do you see reflections in real life? Almost never. Clothing and hair are also not moving in real life (95% of the time). Avatar could have been made with RS. What I have seen since 1989 in the 3D world : a lot of people trying and abandoning. Most people get frustrated quickly and blame the software for their lack of will, imagination, talent and resourcefulness. Sorry I get frustrated by particles, flow and physics in 3D software. Recently I have met a young guy who wanted to 3D animation. But instead he got stuck like most newcomers in playing with particles endlessly totally hypnotised doing nothing else. After 3 months of watching his numerous Realflow videos (look like pissing on every kind of geometry possible) , he finally quit 3D. Particles create spectacular animation without any effort nor planning. It's good to wow yourself for a while, but eventually you will have to produce something worth watching. Blaming the powerful software we have nowadays is as ridiculous as blaming a pen, a brush, sculpting knive for the poor result. I don't care if I am the only one in the world using RS. I use it because I like it. I don't need the world to approve it. I don't need to know that RS is the most trendy software. 80% of the world use Microsoft Windows, does that make it the best. Hell no! Yes , Martin you are 100% right and at the same time I don't see it as a problem anymore. Cinema 4Pay, is just the concept of selling a software in pieces at a higher price. And selling them their favorite videogame : particles. As usual don't consider this rant too seriously. I'm probably just trolling again ; ) Jean-Sebastien Perron www.NeuroWorld.ws -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.864 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3239 - Release Date: 11/05/10 20:34:00
