Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Kai Uwe Pel]

Hi Chuck,

 but it is no place for critical business data. 

Correct, I agree with you !!!


Kai


On 8/21/2018 7:23 PM, Chuck Davis wrote:
And I'm with you.  I cannot feature the day I'll waste money on a 
Microsoft product or Apple product.


And any IT manager who puts critical business data into a public cloud 
should be fired on the spot.  A private cloud, ok.  But public cloud, 
never!  Cloud is fine for sharing pictures and documents but it is no 
place for critical business data.



On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 10:05 AM Leo Donahue > wrote:


I probably shouldn't have replied, but..

>> ... force customers to a browser interface
For Windows users, this is where you are headed -
https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-365/partners/moderndesktop
In a few years when you go buy a new Windows PC, what will it have
spec wise?  Probably very little, just enough to get you to the
cloud.
You probably won't even be able to buy the PC device.  Instead
you'll probably rent it for two years like your cell phone -
paying off that last dollar will take you two years, then you'll
be eligible for an upgrade.  You're locked into the platform and
the device.  The spice must flow.

I'm thankful I still have the choice of an open OS.  Thank you
Linux, thank you GTK, thank you Java/Swing, thank you open
source.  Thank you every other Apache project I can run on Linux.


On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Chuck Davis mailto:cjgun...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Microsoft will continue laughing all the way to the bank as
long as they can keep the Java crowd believing their desktop
monopoly is just a niche market.  In the US small businesses
are the largest employer segment and we live on a desktop. 
More and more of them with larger and larger screens.  Of
course, we also use browsers for web access and cell phones to
talk with each other.  But we get our work done with a desktop
client/server application for the most part; and no, we don't
want to have to try to get anything done with something as
crude as a browser interface.  That should be more than
apparent from the recent rash of class action lawsuits that
have been filed against Oracle's attempt to force customers to
a browser interface. We simply don't want it in small
businesses.  Long live the niche!!




On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 12:56 PM Eirik Bakke
mailto:eba...@ultorg.com>> wrote:

Both Swing and JavaFX are niche technologies, and I'd
question the value of porting a large existing application
from one to another.

Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Chuck Davis]

And I'm with you.  I cannot feature the day I'll waste money on a Microsoft
product or Apple product.

And any IT manager who puts critical business data into a public cloud
should be fired on the spot.  A private cloud, ok.  But public cloud,
never!  Cloud is fine for sharing pictures and documents but it is no place
for critical business data.


On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 10:05 AM Leo Donahue  wrote:

> I probably shouldn't have replied, but..
>
> >> ... force customers to a browser interface
> For Windows users, this is where you are headed -
> https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-365/partners/moderndesktop
> In a few years when you go buy a new Windows PC, what will it have spec
> wise?  Probably very little, just enough to get you to the cloud.
> You probably won't even be able to buy the PC device.  Instead you'll
> probably rent it for two years like your cell phone - paying off that last
> dollar will take you two years, then you'll be eligible for an upgrade.
> You're locked into the platform and the device.  The spice must flow.
>
> I'm thankful I still have the choice of an open OS.  Thank you Linux,
> thank you GTK, thank you Java/Swing, thank you open source.  Thank you
> every other Apache project I can run on Linux.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Chuck Davis  wrote:
>
>> Microsoft will continue laughing all the way to the bank as long as they
>> can keep the Java crowd believing their desktop monopoly is just a niche
>> market.  In the US small businesses are the largest employer segment and we
>> live on a desktop.  More and more of them with larger and larger screens.
>> Of course, we also use browsers for web access and cell phones to talk with
>> each other.  But we get our work done with a desktop client/server
>> application for the most part; and no, we don't want to have to try to get
>> anything done with something as crude as a browser interface.  That should
>> be more than apparent from the recent rash of class action lawsuits that
>> have been filed against Oracle's attempt to force customers to a browser
>> interface.  We simply don't want it in small businesses.  Long live the
>> niche!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 12:56 PM Eirik Bakke  wrote:
>>
>>> Both Swing and JavaFX are niche technologies, and I'd question the value
>>> of porting a large existing application from one to another.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Leo Donahue]

I probably shouldn't have replied, but..

>> ... force customers to a browser interface
For Windows users, this is where you are headed -
https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-365/partners/moderndesktop
In a few years when you go buy a new Windows PC, what will it have spec
wise?  Probably very little, just enough to get you to the cloud.
You probably won't even be able to buy the PC device.  Instead you'll
probably rent it for two years like your cell phone - paying off that last
dollar will take you two years, then you'll be eligible for an upgrade.
You're locked into the platform and the device.  The spice must flow.

I'm thankful I still have the choice of an open OS.  Thank you Linux, thank
you GTK, thank you Java/Swing, thank you open source.  Thank you every
other Apache project I can run on Linux.


On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Chuck Davis  wrote:

> Microsoft will continue laughing all the way to the bank as long as they
> can keep the Java crowd believing their desktop monopoly is just a niche
> market.  In the US small businesses are the largest employer segment and we
> live on a desktop.  More and more of them with larger and larger screens.
> Of course, we also use browsers for web access and cell phones to talk with
> each other.  But we get our work done with a desktop client/server
> application for the most part; and no, we don't want to have to try to get
> anything done with something as crude as a browser interface.  That should
> be more than apparent from the recent rash of class action lawsuits that
> have been filed against Oracle's attempt to force customers to a browser
> interface.  We simply don't want it in small businesses.  Long live the
> niche!!
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 12:56 PM Eirik Bakke  wrote:
>
>> Both Swing and JavaFX are niche technologies, and I'd question the value
>> of porting a large existing application from one to another.
>>
>>
>>

Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Thomas Clancy]

I was inspired from reading JavaFX for NetBeans GUI that I’ve started to build 
bits and pieces of a prototype for this.  Finding myself unemployed again 
(something that’s really getting me down), I have plenty of time to think about 
this stuff and get my mind off my crumbling reality. 

---
Thomas J. Clancy,
http://philosophicus.blogspot.com
 
To this day, many C programmers believe that "strong typing"
just means pounding extra hard on the keyboard.
- Peter van der Linden, Expert C Programming


> On Aug 21, 2018, at 10:38 AM, Mithat Karaoglu  
> wrote:
> 
> Quote from Chuck Davis's email:
> "...Combine a Java desktop app with a good server, EJB, JDBC and a good 
> datastore -- good business environment. ..."
> 
> I strongly agree, this is exactly what we are doing in our company. We have 
> Windows, Linux and MAC desktops One large same desktop application runs on 
> all clients, connects to TomEE, MySQL running on a Linux server.
> 
> =
> Mithat Karaoglu
> Email: mithat.karao...@gmail.com 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 10:12 AM, Geertjan Wielenga 
>  > wrote:
> The Java desktop hasn't really found a place in software for small and medium 
> businesses -- probably because .NET is so dominant in that space. However, 
> that does not mean that the Java desktop has failed, since there's a LOT more 
> in the software world than software for small and medium business. How about, 
> for example, large business or let's say industrial business, e.g., 
> scientific data modeling (in banks, aerospace, etc) -- that's where there's 
> more Java desktop software. The Java desktop, again, is not so common for the 
> consumer marker, but all the more so for large back office systems.
> 
> Gj
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 4:06 PM, Miroslav Nachev 
> mailto:mnachev.nscenter...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> In support of what Chuck Davis said, I would like to say that more than 90% 
> of the software for small and medium businesses in Bulgaria is made on 
> Microsoft .NET and MS SQL Server Express.
> For example, accounting and payroll software for micro and small businesses 
> is primarily on .NET, where the Web is not used.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Chuck Davis  > wrote:
> Microsoft doesn't create the desktop apps.  They created a rich environment 
> for businesses to create the apps.  Can you say Intuit (their on-line version 
> is not a big hit from what I've heard)?  Nearly all accounting packages are 
> built for Windows only.  Nearly everything used in businesses is built for 
> Windows only.  I work currently in agriculture.  Our packing houses (and Ag 
> is a huge industry) are run by software only available on Windows desktops -- 
> certainly not browsers.
> 
> Small businesses are not flocking to browser interfaces to get their real 
> work done.  
> 
> If one looks only at Microsoft apps (and there are currently good 
> alternatives to those) he misses the big picture.  It's the rich development 
> environment they have provided that allows businesses to create the apps we 
> need to run our businesses -- unfortunately on Windows only.  Java is the 
> only viable alternative.
> 
> I don't belong to the crowd who thinks Swing has been a failure.  It's been 
> wonderful in my experience (thanks in large part to NB).  But I've become 
> quite taken with FX as well (developed nicely with NB) -- for me it's been a 
> great journey to become proficient with it.  It's still got serious warts I 
> hope get fixed soon but it's a great start.  If FX falters I'll revert to 
> Swing in a heartbeat.  Desktop development, in my opinion, doesn't get any 
> better than Java.  Combine a Java desktop app with a good server, EJB, JDBC 
> and a good datastore -- good business environment.
> 
> What mobile has done is teach people that for a good user experience you need 
> to download an app -- not a browser.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:29 AM Emilian Bold  > wrote:
> What new desktop apps did Microsoft release in the past years?
> 
> They have a monopoly on office productivity apps (Word / Excel) but what 
> other desktop software products are these 'small businesses' buying?
> 
> Small businesses may be the biggest employer but they are not the biggest 
> software (desktop) developer employers.
> 
> The data just doesn't show this: where are the successful products, the 
> companies catering to small business, the jobs?
> 
> --emi
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Chuck Davis]

And it's not going to become common in the consumer market if it keeps
being threatened with abandonment, discontinuance, etc.  Perhaps becoming
open source will give people confidence it will be around for a while.
Unfortunately, integration with other MS desktop offerings holds a powerful
influence over the desktop which, itself, is NOT a niche market.

Getting developers on the same page is kind of like herding cats.  But
imagine, if you will, what could happen if NB was integrated with
ODFToolkit, PDFBox, James and other Apache products to produce something
with Java that could compete with MS for the desktop niche (actually,
monopoly) -- one install that provides a development environment, an office
suite, mail and calendar, etc. based on open protocols (including API).  We
can cobble it all together presently but OEMs like (need) a single
install.  And do not fail to understand it is the ability to integrate with
desktop apps (like Office, Outlook, etc.) that makes a Windows desktop (and
marketshare) compelling for software houses.  I enjoy it all on Linux but
most people are not motivated enough to cobble it all together so Windows
is the default because MS has cobbled it all together for them and provided
an API to integrate everything -- otherwise referred to as "vendor lock-in".



On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 7:12 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:

> The Java desktop, again, is not so common for the consumer marker, but all
> the more so for large back office systems.
>
> Gj
>
>
>

Re: Best practice in bundling in JRE10 to a netbeans platform application?

[Neil C Smith]

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 15:49, Andreas Hauffe
 wrote:
> So I obviously I'm supposed to bundle the JRE to the installers
> (Windows, Linux, MacOS). But what's about the OS-independent zip file.
> What is the best way? Should I bundle all JRE's into one ZIP file or
> should I create a ZIP file for each OS with the JRE (which would not be
> OS independent)?
>
> The OS-independent ZIP file were nice for people who have no admin
> rights, so that they can't install software on there computer.

Surely better to have multiple OS-dependent zips than needlessly
increased bandwidth requirements?  Not sure how easy it is to set up
the .conf to point to different bundled JRE's either?

Although, if you're making OS-dependent files anyway, I'd suggest an
app bundle for macOS and something like AppImage for Linux, neither of
which require admin rights to run but are a bit friendlier.  Not sure
there is an easy to create comparable Windows option there!?

Best wishes,

Neil

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Best practice in bundling in JRE10 to a netbeans platform application?

[Andreas Hauffe]

Hi,

I have a question on bundling the JRE to a netbeans platform 
application. As far as I got the idea, since JRE 9 I'm supposed to 
bundle the JRE to the application.


So I obviously I'm supposed to bundle the JRE to the installers 
(Windows, Linux, MacOS). But what's about the OS-independent zip file. 
What is the best way? Should I bundle all JRE's into one ZIP file or 
should I create a ZIP file for each OS with the JRE (which would not be 
OS independent)?


The OS-independent ZIP file were nice for people who have no admin 
rights, so that they can't install software on there computer.



--
Regards,
Andreas Hauffe




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Miroslav Nachev]

In support of what Chuck Davis said, I would like to say that more than 90%
of the software for small and medium businesses in Bulgaria is made on
Microsoft .NET and MS SQL Server Express.
For example, accounting and payroll software for micro and small businesses
is primarily on .NET, where the Web is not used.


On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Chuck Davis  wrote:

> Microsoft doesn't create the desktop apps.  They created a rich
> environment for businesses to create the apps.  Can you say Intuit (their
> on-line version is not a big hit from what I've heard)?  Nearly all
> accounting packages are built for Windows only.  Nearly everything used in
> businesses is built for Windows only.  I work currently in agriculture.
> Our packing houses (and Ag is a huge industry) are run by software only
> available on Windows desktops -- certainly not browsers.
>
> Small businesses are not flocking to browser interfaces to get their real
> work done.
>
> If one looks only at Microsoft apps (and there are currently good
> alternatives to those) he misses the big picture.  It's the rich
> development environment they have provided that allows businesses to create
> the apps we need to run our businesses -- unfortunately on Windows only.
> Java is the only viable alternative.
>
> I don't belong to the crowd who thinks Swing has been a failure.  It's
> been wonderful in my experience (thanks in large part to NB).  But I've
> become quite taken with FX as well (developed nicely with NB) -- for me
> it's been a great journey to become proficient with it.  It's still got
> serious warts I hope get fixed soon but it's a great start.  If FX falters
> I'll revert to Swing in a heartbeat.  Desktop development, in my opinion,
> doesn't get any better than Java.  Combine a Java desktop app with a good
> server, EJB, JDBC and a good datastore -- good business environment.
>
> What mobile has done is teach people that for a good user experience you
> need to download an app -- not a browser.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:29 AM Emilian Bold 
> wrote:
>
>> What new desktop apps did Microsoft release in the past years?
>>
>> They have a monopoly on office productivity apps (Word / Excel) but what
>> other desktop software products are these 'small businesses' buying?
>>
>> Small businesses may be the biggest employer but they are not the biggest
>> software (desktop) developer employers.
>>
>> The data just doesn't show this: where are the successful products, the
>> companies catering to small business, the jobs?
>>
>> --emi
>>
>>

RE: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Eirik Bakke]

> They have a monopoly on office productivity apps (Word / Excel) but what 
> other desktop software products are these 'small businesses' buying?

PowerBI, Tableau, and Acrobat Pro come to mind.

Other important desktop apps: Adobe Creative Suite (Photoshop, Illustrator, 
InDesign, Premiere), music production (Digital Performer, Cubase, Logic, 
ProTools, Ableton, Sibelius, Finale), every big 3D game (e.g. Minecraft, a Java 
app bought by Microsoft for $2 billion), all the big IDEs, and all of the 
browsers themselves.

Note also that the desktop Excel, Word, and PowerPoint apps recently got very 
good real-time collaboration features. This eliminates the main competitive 
advantage of Google Docs. Microsoft OneNote is also seeing a lot of development 
lately.

-- Eirik 

-Original Message-
From: Robert Erdt  
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 8:28 AM
To: 'Emilian Bold' ; 'Chuck Davis' 

Cc: us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

Totally agree.

Microsoft offers productivity products, only.. I am converting everything I use 
to Google apps.

Look at EPIC (Healthcare Desktop Software) created in VB, total bomb 

We bought the product here and it blows. 

Now, look at Cerner, in java Need I say more

BTW.. At GM, Gates said he wanted Microsoft in every vehicle... All we did is 
laugh.

Still laughing... LOL

-Original Message-
From: Emilian Bold [mailto:emilian.b...@protonmail.ch.INVALID] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 4:30 AM
To: Chuck Davis 
Cc: us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

What new desktop apps did Microsoft release in the past years?

They have a monopoly on office productivity apps (Word / Excel) but what other 
desktop software products are these 'small businesses' buying?

Small businesses may be the biggest employer but they are not the biggest 
software (desktop) developer employers.

The data just doesn't show this: where are the successful products, the 
companies catering to small business, the jobs?

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 21 August 2018 12:09 AM, Chuck Davis  wrote:

> Microsoft will continue laughing all the way to the bank as long as they can 
> keep the Java crowd believing their desktop monopoly is just a niche market.  
> In the US small businesses are the largest employer segment and we live on a 
> desktop.  More and more of them with larger and larger screens.  Of course, 
> we also use browsers for web access and cell phones to talk with each other.  
> But we get our work done with a desktop client/server application for the 
> most part; and no, we don't want to have to try to get anything done with 
> something as crude as a browser interface.  That should be more than apparent 
> from the recent rash of class action lawsuits that have been filed against 
> Oracle's attempt to force customers to a browser interface.  We simply don't 
> want it in small businesses.  Long live the niche!!
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 12:56 PM Eirik Bakke  wrote:
>
> > Both Swing and JavaFX are niche technologies, and I'd question the value of 
> > porting a large existing application from one to another.

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Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Chuck Davis]

Microsoft doesn't create the desktop apps.  They created a rich environment
for businesses to create the apps.  Can you say Intuit (their on-line
version is not a big hit from what I've heard)?  Nearly all accounting
packages are built for Windows only.  Nearly everything used in businesses
is built for Windows only.  I work currently in agriculture.  Our packing
houses (and Ag is a huge industry) are run by software only available on
Windows desktops -- certainly not browsers.

Small businesses are not flocking to browser interfaces to get their real
work done.

If one looks only at Microsoft apps (and there are currently good
alternatives to those) he misses the big picture.  It's the rich
development environment they have provided that allows businesses to create
the apps we need to run our businesses -- unfortunately on Windows only.
Java is the only viable alternative.

I don't belong to the crowd who thinks Swing has been a failure.  It's been
wonderful in my experience (thanks in large part to NB).  But I've become
quite taken with FX as well (developed nicely with NB) -- for me it's been
a great journey to become proficient with it.  It's still got serious warts
I hope get fixed soon but it's a great start.  If FX falters I'll revert to
Swing in a heartbeat.  Desktop development, in my opinion, doesn't get any
better than Java.  Combine a Java desktop app with a good server, EJB, JDBC
and a good datastore -- good business environment.

What mobile has done is teach people that for a good user experience you
need to download an app -- not a browser.



On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:29 AM Emilian Bold 
wrote:

> What new desktop apps did Microsoft release in the past years?
>
> They have a monopoly on office productivity apps (Word / Excel) but what
> other desktop software products are these 'small businesses' buying?
>
> Small businesses may be the biggest employer but they are not the biggest
> software (desktop) developer employers.
>
> The data just doesn't show this: where are the successful products, the
> companies catering to small business, the jobs?
>
> --emi
>
>

RE: JavaFX for Netbeans GUI

[Jerry Nicholson]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 8:05 AM, Miroslav Nachev 
mailto:mnachev.nscenter...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


   Yes, it's a real pity, that so many years in Java world there is a
   gap for Desktop programming. The Java world has been waiting for
   JavaFX for over 20 years. Swing and AWT were a failure for Java and
   Desktop applications in the Java world.



/> ...except for applications at NASA, NATO, Boeing, Airbus, etc etc 
etc. I.e., scientific applications behind the scenes in back offices 
everywhere. Here are some of them:/

/
/
/> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/on+top+of+NetBeans//
/
/
/
/> Indeed, though, consumer applications have increasingly moved to 
mobile phones and to browsers generally. But for scientific 
applications, there's a lot for the Java desktop to be proud > of. :-)/

/
/
/> Gj

/My company creates data transport and process automation software for 
large WAN systems, often comprised of thousands of nodes. You can't "go 
mobile" with
such an application - it requires a server. Java, Netbeans and Swing 
have enabled us to build these systems and sell them to some of the 
Fortune 1000 as well as small
businesses. We're very grateful for what Java, Netbeans and Swing have 
done for us, and by saying so, we're also thanking Netbeans developers. 
Thank you!

//

--


Jerry Nicholson
Mlink.com LLC
603.523.8398

Re: Heads up: #536: Per-cluster repository layout

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Sure. On the other hand, I'm always very quick to apologize, just want to
make sure everyone is happy and comfortable.

You can disagree, it makes sense, and I agree with you. But all I'm doing
is trying to (1) push NetBeans forward via your great enhancements (2)
while keeping everyone on board as much as possible and (3) apologizing a
lot if that makes sense to keep people happy.

Please say the above things in the thread now that you know where I'm
coming from.

Gj


On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 11:43 AM, Jaroslav Tulach  wrote:

> Off-list.
>
> po 20. 8. 2018 v 15:41 odesílatel Geertjan Wielenga
>  napsal:
>
>> You need to open into the IDE built from after Jaroslav’s merge.
>>
>
> That works, but it is not necessary. Apache NetBeans 9.0 is enough, as I
> wrote:
>
> > you'll need Apache NetBeans 9.0 to work with
> > the NetBeans sources. I assume that shouldn't be a problem - we all love
> to
> > use the latest release, right?
>
> I've noticed discussion (with Michael Bleasing?) that the change has been
> too sudden. That is not a true at all. The change has been discussed since
> May 28. When the PR
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/564
>
> was approved, then the plan was clear (at least to me) and agreed to. It
> was just a matter of time when the shuffling happens.
>
> -jt
>

Re: Bundle JRE 10 to a netbeans platform application

[Andreas Hauffe]

Hi,

I already did both. See 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/NETBEANS/issues/NETBEANS-1157


The point is, that I don't understand how the zip-files with the 
precompiled native executables and libraries work and where they come 
from, that are used during the netbeans build process. So as long as the 
netbeans 8.2 zip files are used, this bug will not be resolved.


--
Regards,
Andreas Hauffe

Am 21.08.2018 um 10:45 schrieb Tushar Joshi:
This looks like a necessary update for Java10 and shall be submitted 
as a PR against one issue created for this topic.

Please think over it.

with regards
    Tushar



On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 9:11 PM Andreas Hauffe 
mailto:andreas.hau...@tu-dresden.de>> 
wrote:


Hi,

thanks for the hint.

But I just change the code of the windows installer launcher of
netbeans so that it is working for Java 10. This was quite a pain,
due the fact, that I do not really understand how the build
process during the IDE compilation is working. Some ZIP files are
used which override all changes of native executables with
netbeans 8.2 executables.

I changed line 125 - 181 of

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/nbi/engine/native/launcher/windows/src/JavaUtils.c
to the following and copied the compiled nbi-engine.jar to
netbeans/harness/modules/ext/ manually.



JavaVersion * getJavaVersionFromString(char * string, DWORD *
result) {
    JavaVersion *vers = NULL;
    if(getLengthA(string)>=3) {
    char *p = string;

    // get major
    long major = 0;
    while(p!=NULL) {
    char c = p[0];
    if(c>='0' && c<='9') {
    major = (major) * 10 + c - '0';
    p++;
    continue;
    }
    else if(c=='.'){
    p++;
    }
    else{
    return vers;
    }
    break;
    }

    // get minor
    long minor = 0;
    while(p!=NULL) {
    char c = p[0];
    if(c>='0' && c<='9') {
    minor = (minor) * 10 + c - '0';
    p++;
    continue;
    }
    break;
    }

    *result = ERROR_OK;
    vers = (JavaVersion*) LocalAlloc(LPTR, sizeof(JavaVersion));
    vers->major  = major;
    vers->minor  = minor;
    vers->micro  = 0;
    vers->update = 0;
    ZERO(vers->build, 128);

    if(p!=NULL) {
    if(p[0]=='.') { // micro...
    p++;
    while(p!=NULL) {
    char c = p[0];
    if(c>='0' && c<='9') {
    vers->micro = (vers->micro) * 10 + c - '0';
    p++;
    continue;
    }
    else if(c=='_') {//update
    p++;
    while(p!=NULL) {
    c = p[0];
    p++;
    if(c>='0' && c<='9') {
    vers->update = (vers->update) * 10
+ c - '0';
    continue;
    } else {
    break;
    }
    }
    } else {
    if(p!=NULL) p++;
    }
    if(c=='-' && p!=NULL) { // build number
    lstrcpyn(vers->build, p, min(127,
getLengthA(p)+1));
    }
    break;
    }
    }
    }
    }
    return vers;
}




-- 
Regards,

Andreas Hauffe





Am 20.08.2018 um 12:23 schrieb Neil C Smith:

You might want to check out the thread around using InnoSetup for
this from around Aug 1st too.

Best wishes,

Neil

On Mon, 20 Aug 2018, 08:55 Andreas Hauffe,
mailto:andreas.hau...@tu-dresden.de>> wrote:

Hi,

I tried with Netbeans 9 and JDK8/JRE8 and this is working.

The verbose output of running the windows installer with a
bundled JRE10 is the following:

2018-08-20 09:48:12.421]> Create new process:
[2018-08-20 09:48:12.421]>   command :
C:\Users\${USER}\AppData\Local\Temp\\NBI25406.tmp\_jvm\bin\java.exe
-classpath C:\Users\${USER}\AppData\Local\Temp\\NBI25406.tmp
TestJDK
[2018-08-20 09:48:12.421]> directory : C:\Temp
[2018-08-20 09:48:12.437]> ... process created
[2018-08-20 09:48:12.682]> ... process finished his work
[2018-08-20 09:48:12.682]>    output :
10.0.2

Re: Agenda and doodle for Virtual Apache NetBeans Meeting 2

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Reminder: this will take place an hour from now. :-)

Gj

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 8:42 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Two weeks ago we had our first virtual Apache NetBeans meeting, open to
> anyone and everyone involved or interested in being involved in the Apache
> NetBeans project, the audio recording is here:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tibK6A8CzYs
>
> The tentative aim is to do this every two weeks, i.e., simply go here at
> the agreed upon date and time and you'll be in the meeting:
>
> https://meet.jit.si/ApacheNetBeansMeeting1
>
> The next of these meetings is coming Tuesday, i.e., 21 August, 12:00 CEST:
>
> https://doodle.com/poll/xueimbynzam7sri7
>
> To give an indication that you'll be there, just sign up on the page
> above. The time isn't convenient for everyone, that's why we record the
> audio, and we could change the time of upcoming ones to make it more
> convenient for other timezones.
>
> The purpose is just to get to know each other, discuss the current status
> of Apache NetBeans, see what we can each do, discuss anything that's taking
> too long to handle via e-mail, help with user problems, respond to any
> problems anyone might be having developing or using NetBeans.
>
> Please sign up above and see you there -- it was quite fun last time,
> i.e., just hearing each other's voices and seeing who we all are.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
>

Re: Bundle JRE 10 to a netbeans platform application

[Tushar Joshi]

This looks like a necessary update for Java10 and shall be submitted as a
PR against one issue created for this topic.
Please think over it.

with regards
Tushar



On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 9:11 PM Andreas Hauffe 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> thanks for the hint.
>
> But I just change the code of the windows installer launcher of netbeans
> so that it is working for Java 10. This was quite a pain, due the fact,
> that I do not really understand how the build process during the IDE
> compilation is working. Some ZIP files are used which override all changes
> of native executables with netbeans 8.2 executables.
>
> I changed line 125 - 181 of
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/nbi/engine/native/launcher/windows/src/JavaUtils.c
> to the following and copied the compiled nbi-engine.jar to
> netbeans/harness/modules/ext/ manually.
>
> 
>
> JavaVersion * getJavaVersionFromString(char * string, DWORD * result) {
> JavaVersion *vers = NULL;
> if(getLengthA(string)>=3) {
> char *p = string;
>
> // get major
> long major = 0;
> while(p!=NULL) {
> char c = p[0];
> if(c>='0' && c<='9') {
> major = (major) * 10 + c - '0';
> p++;
> continue;
> }
> else if(c=='.'){
> p++;
> }
> else{
> return vers;
> }
> break;
> }
>
> // get minor
> long minor = 0;
> while(p!=NULL) {
> char c = p[0];
> if(c>='0' && c<='9') {
> minor = (minor) * 10 + c - '0';
> p++;
> continue;
> }
> break;
> }
>
> *result = ERROR_OK;
> vers = (JavaVersion*) LocalAlloc(LPTR, sizeof(JavaVersion));
> vers->major  = major;
> vers->minor  = minor;
> vers->micro  = 0;
> vers->update = 0;
> ZERO(vers->build, 128);
>
> if(p!=NULL) {
> if(p[0]=='.') { // micro...
> p++;
> while(p!=NULL) {
> char c = p[0];
> if(c>='0' && c<='9') {
> vers->micro = (vers->micro) * 10 + c - '0';
> p++;
> continue;
> }
> else if(c=='_') {//update
> p++;
> while(p!=NULL) {
> c = p[0];
> p++;
> if(c>='0' && c<='9') {
> vers->update = (vers->update) * 10 + c -
> '0';
> continue;
> } else {
> break;
> }
> }
> } else {
> if(p!=NULL) p++;
> }
> if(c=='-' && p!=NULL) { // build number
> lstrcpyn(vers->build, p, min(127,
> getLengthA(p)+1));
> }
> break;
> }
> }
> }
> }
> return vers;
> }
>
> 
>
> --
> Regards,
> Andreas Hauffe
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 20.08.2018 um 12:23 schrieb Neil C Smith:
>
> You might want to check out the thread around using InnoSetup for this
> from around Aug 1st too.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2018, 08:55 Andreas Hauffe, 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I tried with Netbeans 9 and JDK8/JRE8 and this is working.
>>
>> The verbose output of running the windows installer with a bundled JRE10
>> is the following:
>>
>> 2018-08-20 09:48:12.421]> Create new process:
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.421]>   command :
>> C:\Users\${USER}\AppData\Local\Temp\\NBI25406.tmp\_jvm\bin\java.exe
>> -classpath C:\Users\${USER}\AppData\Local\Temp\\NBI25406.tmp TestJDK
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.421]> directory : C:\Temp
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.437]> ... process created
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.682]> ... process finished his work
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.682]>output :
>> 10.0.2
>> 10.0.2+13
>> Oracle Corporation
>> Windows 10
>> amd64
>>
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.682]> java.version =  10.0.2
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.698]> java.vm.version = 10.0.2+13
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.698]> java.vendor = Oracle Corporation
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.714]> os.name = Windows 10
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.714]> os.arch = amd64
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.714]>
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.729]> ... getting java version from string :
>> 10.0.2+13
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.729]> ... some java there
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.729]> ... no java at
>> C:\Users\${USER}\AppData\Local\Temp\\NBI25406.tmp\_jvm
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.745]> ... check private jre at
>> C:\Users\${USER}\AppData\Local\Temp\\NBI25406.tmp\_jvm\jre
>> [2018-08-20 09:48:12.745]> ... not a java hierarchy

Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Emilian Bold]

What new desktop apps did Microsoft release in the past years?

They have a monopoly on office productivity apps (Word / Excel) but what other 
desktop software products are these 'small businesses' buying?

Small businesses may be the biggest employer but they are not the biggest 
software (desktop) developer employers.

The data just doesn't show this: where are the successful products, the 
companies catering to small business, the jobs?

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On 21 August 2018 12:09 AM, Chuck Davis  wrote:

> Microsoft will continue laughing all the way to the bank as long as they can 
> keep the Java crowd believing their desktop monopoly is just a niche market.  
> In the US small businesses are the largest employer segment and we live on a 
> desktop.  More and more of them with larger and larger screens.  Of course, 
> we also use browsers for web access and cell phones to talk with each other.  
> But we get our work done with a desktop client/server application for the 
> most part; and no, we don't want to have to try to get anything done with 
> something as crude as a browser interface.  That should be more than apparent 
> from the recent rash of class action lawsuits that have been filed against 
> Oracle's attempt to force customers to a browser interface.  We simply don't 
> want it in small businesses.  Long live the niche!!
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 12:56 PM Eirik Bakke  wrote:
>
> > Both Swing and JavaFX are niche technologies, and I'd question the value of 
> > porting a large existing application from one to another.

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Re: JavaFX for NetBeans GUI

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 8:05 AM, Miroslav Nachev <
mnachev.nscenter...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, it's a real pity, that so many years in Java world there is a gap for
> Desktop programming. The Java world has been waiting for JavaFX for over 20
> years. Swing and AWT were a failure for Java and Desktop applications in
> the Java world.
>


...except for applications at NASA, NATO, Boeing, Airbus, etc etc etc.
I.e., scientific applications behind the scenes in back offices everywhere.
Here are some of them:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/on+top+of+NetBeans

Indeed, though, consumer applications have increasingly moved to mobile
phones and to browsers generally. But for scientific applications, there's
a lot for the Java desktop to be proud of. :-)

Gj





> This was one of the serious reasons, Microsoft .NET has overtaken Java in
> many ways.
>
> Why repeat the same mistake so many times?
> From all animal species, only the Human repeats the same mistake more than
> once.
>
>
> Miro.
>
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Chuck Davis  wrote:
>
>> Microsoft will continue laughing all the way to the bank as long as they
>> can keep the Java crowd believing their desktop monopoly is just a niche
>> market.  In the US small businesses are the largest employer segment and we
>> live on a desktop.  More and more of them with larger and larger screens.
>> Of course, we also use browsers for web access and cell phones to talk with
>> each other.  But we get our work done with a desktop client/server
>> application for the most part; and no, we don't want to have to try to get
>> anything done with something as crude as a browser interface.  That should
>> be more than apparent from the recent rash of class action lawsuits that
>> have been filed against Oracle's attempt to force customers to a browser
>> interface.  We simply don't want it in small businesses.  Long live the
>> niche!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 12:56 PM Eirik Bakke  wrote:
>>
>>> Both Swing and JavaFX are niche technologies, and I'd question the value
>>> of porting a large existing application from one to another.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>