Re: Wicket job market

[Martin Grigorov]

Hi,

Spring MVC is backed by VMWare.
GWT by Google (or not anymore ?!)

Wicket and Tapestry as Apache projects are developed by volunteers.

I think what miss is the marketing and the training.

I'm not sure whether there is such job search site in Germany to get some
stats but the market for Wicket here is pretty big.
Among others several German banks use Wicket for their web apps.



On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Philippe Demaison wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Let's say that the most popular java web frameworks are Wicket, Tapestry,
> GWT, Spring MVC.
>
> Have you seen the graph ?
>
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Wicket%2C+Tapestry%2C+GWT%2C+%22Spring+MVC%22
>
>
> Other frameworks
> Play Framework, Apache Click, Stripes, Struts, JSF, Seam
>
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=%22Play+Framework%22%2C+%22Apache+Click%22%2C+Stripes%2C+Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Seam
>
>
> What needs to be improved to get a wider adoption of Wicket ?
>
> Best regards
> Phlippe
>



-- 
Martin Grigorov
jWeekend
Training, Consulting, Development
http://jWeekend.com 

Re: Wicket job market

[Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro]

Hi,

IMHO on countries that invest heavily on R&D (new technologies) like
Germany, Netherlands, UK, USA, etc Wicket market is growing... and you can
find lots of Jobs posts asking for Wicket versed programmers.. See

http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=Wicket&l=
http://www.indeed.nl/Wicket-vacatures
http://www.indeed.fr/emplois?q=Wicket&l=
http://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?q=Wicket&l=

compare to

http://www.indeed.es/ofertas?q=Wicket&l=

:-(

As many other OpenSource projects its development depends largely on
volunteers and on companies willing to pay back with "employee time"
for maintenance/documentation. etc. So, there is no point on comparing with
frameworks backed by big players or "well established" frameworks.

At least in Spain my experience is that:

1- "I do not risk my ass" decision makers are a big obstacle for adoption:
they just want to hear about "big names backed software"  or at least well
know/established software... so that, if development ins't going as
planned, it is not a problem of the framework selected.
2- Many programmers comming from Struts like frameworks background have big
problems in caching up with OOP required for Wicket and the "Wicket way".
3- Lack of a unified "place" where to find free/well-supported "commercial
quality" components doesn't help either when you want to sell wicket.

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Philippe Demaison wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Let's say that the most popular java web frameworks are Wicket, Tapestry,
> GWT, Spring MVC.
>
> Have you seen the graph ?
>
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Wicket%2C+Tapestry%2C+GWT%2C+%22Spring+MVC%22
>
>
> Other frameworks
> Play Framework, Apache Click, Stripes, Struts, JSF, Seam
>
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=%22Play+Framework%22%2C+%22Apache+Click%22%2C+Stripes%2C+Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Seam
>
>
> What needs to be improved to get a wider adoption of Wicket ?
>
> Best regards
> Phlippe
>



-- 
Regards - Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro
Antilia Soft
http://antiliasoft.com/ 

Re: Wicket job market

[Tim Urberg]

I wouldn't discount Apache, look at how Struts took off, and look at the 
Apache HTTP server, the most widely used server on the web.  Apache may 
not be a "big corporation" but they are a still a big name.


On 2/4/13 7:37 AM, Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro wrote:

Hi,

IMHO on countries that invest heavily on R&D (new technologies) like
Germany, Netherlands, UK, USA, etc Wicket market is growing... and you can
find lots of Jobs posts asking for Wicket versed programmers.. See

http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=Wicket&l=
http://www.indeed.nl/Wicket-vacatures
http://www.indeed.fr/emplois?q=Wicket&l=
http://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?q=Wicket&l=

compare to

http://www.indeed.es/ofertas?q=Wicket&l=

:-(

As many other OpenSource projects its development depends largely on
volunteers and on companies willing to pay back with "employee time"
for maintenance/documentation. etc. So, there is no point on comparing with
frameworks backed by big players or "well established" frameworks.

At least in Spain my experience is that:

1- "I do not risk my ass" decision makers are a big obstacle for adoption:
they just want to hear about "big names backed software"  or at least well
know/established software... so that, if development ins't going as
planned, it is not a problem of the framework selected.
2- Many programmers comming from Struts like frameworks background have big
problems in caching up with OOP required for Wicket and the "Wicket way".
3- Lack of a unified "place" where to find free/well-supported "commercial
quality" components doesn't help either when you want to sell wicket.

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Philippe Demaison wrote:


Hello,

Let's say that the most popular java web frameworks are Wicket, Tapestry,
GWT, Spring MVC.

Have you seen the graph ?

http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Wicket%2C+Tapestry%2C+GWT%2C+%22Spring+MVC%22


Other frameworks
Play Framework, Apache Click, Stripes, Struts, JSF, Seam

http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=%22Play+Framework%22%2C+%22Apache+Click%22%2C+Stripes%2C+Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Seam


What needs to be improved to get a wider adoption of Wicket ?

Best regards
Phlippe







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Re: Wicket job market

[Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro]

Hi,

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Tim Urberg  wrote:

> I wouldn't discount Apache, look at how Struts took off, and look at the
> Apache HTTP server, the most widely used server on the web.  Apache may not
> be a "big corporation" but they are a still a big name.
>
>
It is not my intention to discount Apache (read my allusion to "well
established frameworks" as Struts). I just wanted to pointing out that for
managers it is a lot easier to decided for WELL established names that
for newcomers... Things like

1-"how/where do I find programmers that know this technology".?
2- Is my team going to catch up quickly with new things, would they be able
to solves difficult issues?
3- if not who is available on my "local marked" that will be able to solve
those issues for me at a reasonable price?
4- What do I gain risking new technology? Please show me a nice free (or
cheap) well maintained component "pack" I can use to solve my
problems/quickly build my applications.

Those are the questions I have faced when trying to get wicket adopted.


>
> On 2/4/13 7:37 AM, Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> IMHO on countries that invest heavily on R&D (new technologies) like
>> Germany, Netherlands, UK, USA, etc Wicket market is growing... and you can
>> find lots of Jobs posts asking for Wicket versed programmers.. See
>>
>> http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=**Wicket&l=
>> http://www.indeed.nl/Wicket-**vacatures
>> http://www.indeed.fr/emplois?**q=Wicket&l=
>> http://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?**q=Wicket&l=
>>
>> compare to
>>
>> http://www.indeed.es/ofertas?**q=Wicket&l=
>>
>> :-(
>>
>> As many other OpenSource projects its development depends largely on
>> volunteers and on companies willing to pay back with "employee time"
>> for maintenance/documentation. etc. So, there is no point on comparing
>> with
>> frameworks backed by big players or "well established" frameworks.
>>
>> At least in Spain my experience is that:
>>
>> 1- "I do not risk my ass" decision makers are a big obstacle for adoption:
>> they just want to hear about "big names backed software"  or at least well
>> know/established software... so that, if development ins't going as
>> planned, it is not a problem of the framework selected.
>> 2- Many programmers comming from Struts like frameworks background have
>> big
>> problems in caching up with OOP required for Wicket and the "Wicket way".
>> 3- Lack of a unified "place" where to find free/well-supported "commercial
>> quality" components doesn't help either when you want to sell wicket.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Philippe Demaison > >wrote:
>>
>>  Hello,
>>>
>>> Let's say that the most popular java web frameworks are Wicket, Tapestry,
>>> GWT, Spring MVC.
>>>
>>> Have you seen the graph ?
>>>
>>> http://www.indeed.com/**jobtrends?q=Wicket%2C+**
>>> Tapestry%2C+GWT%2C+%22Spring+**MVC%22
>>>
>>>
>>> Other frameworks
>>> Play Framework, Apache Click, Stripes, Struts, JSF, Seam
>>>
>>> http://www.indeed.com/**jobtrends?q=%22Play+Framework%**
>>> 22%2C+%22Apache+Click%22%2C+**Stripes%2C+Struts%2C+JSF%2C+**Seam
>>>
>>>
>>> What needs to be improved to get a wider adoption of Wicket ?
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Phlippe
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> users-unsubscribe@wicket.**apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Regards - Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro
Antilia Soft
http://antiliasoft.com/ 

Re: Wicket job market

[Josh Kamau]

Does anyone think the rise of javascript based single page thick client
type of applications are eating on wickets share? When i try to sell wicket
to my peers, they normally argue that they want a stateless client and a
stateful rich clients. The kind of clients that you build with javascript
toolkits such as angular, backbone etc. One of the main reason why i
started using wicket was my phobia for javascript. That phobia is no more.
Infact i want more and more control over the javascript on my client.  Does
anyone else share the same sentiments?  I am still a huge wicket fun and i
use it in many projects.
Josh.


On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro <
reier...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Tim Urberg  wrote:
>
> > I wouldn't discount Apache, look at how Struts took off, and look at the
> > Apache HTTP server, the most widely used server on the web.  Apache may
> not
> > be a "big corporation" but they are a still a big name.
> >
> >
> It is not my intention to discount Apache (read my allusion to "well
> established frameworks" as Struts). I just wanted to pointing out that for
> managers it is a lot easier to decided for WELL established names that
> for newcomers... Things like
>
> 1-"how/where do I find programmers that know this technology".?
> 2- Is my team going to catch up quickly with new things, would they be able
> to solves difficult issues?
> 3- if not who is available on my "local marked" that will be able to solve
> those issues for me at a reasonable price?
> 4- What do I gain risking new technology? Please show me a nice free (or
> cheap) well maintained component "pack" I can use to solve my
> problems/quickly build my applications.
>
> Those are the questions I have faced when trying to get wicket adopted.
>
>
> >
> > On 2/4/13 7:37 AM, Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> IMHO on countries that invest heavily on R&D (new technologies) like
> >> Germany, Netherlands, UK, USA, etc Wicket market is growing... and you
> can
> >> find lots of Jobs posts asking for Wicket versed programmers.. See
> >>
> >> http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=**Wicket&l=<
> http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=Wicket&l=>
> >> http://www.indeed.nl/Wicket-**vacatures<
> http://www.indeed.nl/Wicket-vacatures>
> >> http://www.indeed.fr/emplois?**q=Wicket&l=<
> http://www.indeed.fr/emplois?q=Wicket&l=>
> >> http://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?**q=Wicket&l=<
> http://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs?q=Wicket&l=>
> >>
> >> compare to
> >>
> >> http://www.indeed.es/ofertas?**q=Wicket&l=<
> http://www.indeed.es/ofertas?q=Wicket&l=>
> >>
> >> :-(
> >>
> >> As many other OpenSource projects its development depends largely on
> >> volunteers and on companies willing to pay back with "employee time"
> >> for maintenance/documentation. etc. So, there is no point on comparing
> >> with
> >> frameworks backed by big players or "well established" frameworks.
> >>
> >> At least in Spain my experience is that:
> >>
> >> 1- "I do not risk my ass" decision makers are a big obstacle for
> adoption:
> >> they just want to hear about "big names backed software"  or at least
> well
> >> know/established software... so that, if development ins't going as
> >> planned, it is not a problem of the framework selected.
> >> 2- Many programmers comming from Struts like frameworks background have
> >> big
> >> problems in caching up with OOP required for Wicket and the "Wicket
> way".
> >> 3- Lack of a unified "place" where to find free/well-supported
> "commercial
> >> quality" components doesn't help either when you want to sell wicket.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Philippe Demaison <
> ph.demai...@gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >>  Hello,
> >>>
> >>> Let's say that the most popular java web frameworks are Wicket,
> Tapestry,
> >>> GWT, Spring MVC.
> >>>
> >>> Have you seen the graph ?
> >>>
> >>> http://www.indeed.com/**jobtrends?q=Wicket%2C+**
> >>> Tapestry%2C+GWT%2C+%22Spring+**MVC%22<
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Wicket%2C+Tapestry%2C+GWT%2C+%22Spring+MVC%22
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Other frameworks
> >>> Play Framework, Apache Click, Stripes, Struts, JSF, Seam
> >>>
> >>> http://www.indeed.com/**jobtrends?q=%22Play+Framework%**
> >>> 22%2C+%22Apache+Click%22%2C+**Stripes%2C+Struts%2C+JSF%2C+**Seam<
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=%22Play+Framework%22%2C+%22Apache+Click%22%2C+Stripes%2C+Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Seam
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What needs to be improved to get a wider adoption of Wicket ?
> >>>
> >>> Best regards
> >>> Phlippe
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --**--**-
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.**apache.org<
> users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Regards - Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro
> Antilia Soft
> http://antiliasoft.com/ 
>

Re: Wicket job market

[manuelbarzi]

> toolkits such as angular, backbone etc. One of the main reason why i
> started using wicket was my phobia for javascript. That phobia is no more.
> Infact i want more and more control over the javascript on my client.  Does
> anyone else share the same sentiments?  I am still a huge wicket fun and i
> use it in many projects.
> Josh.

i think that the evolution of:

- network speed
- navigators capabilities (memory, processing speed, etc. provided by
hardware advances)

is creating the "picture of java virtual machine" in client-side but
with html, css and javascript. you can see more and more heavy-duty
"web software" being executed on navigators (client-side) with more
and more load of dependencies (javascript resources an so on). so, at
the end, executing a web-application will transform the something as
similar as it was downloading an applet and running that piece on
navigator. with the difference, for the moment, that all code
downloaded is not crypted or compiled, but "interpreted".

it seems like a fish biting its tail. soon may be, we'll have
"javascript virtual machine's" (already working in navigators, almost)
downloading and running "javascript applets" (tons of code).

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Re: Wicket job market

[Michael Mosmann]

Am 04.02.2013 15:43, schrieb manuelbarzi:

Play Framework, Apache Click, Stripes, Struts, JSF, Seam
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=%22Play+Framework%22%2C+%22Apache+Click%22%2C+Stripes%2C+Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Seam
What needs to be improved to get a wider adoption of Wicket ?

IMO, "selling" Wicket as Vaadin does, may help a lot.
I think, you should not compare wicket with vaadin. Wicket is not the 
right answer for every project. Wicket does not compete with vaadin, 
because wicket is a different hammer. The rise of "javascript apps" 
could change the future of web development, but for such a project you 
should not use wicket either. IMHO wicket is the better answer than 
struts, grails (if you have a long term maintenance cycle), jsf...


I think there are many wicket projects out there, but wicket is not the 
so called cool stuff like grails, spring roo and so on... nothing a 
developer likes to play with (which is IMHO a good thing). I think, this 
could be changed with wicket 6 (jquery build-in)... but it is a long way.


Michael


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RE: Wicket job market

[Colin Rogers]

In Australia it's almost non-existent. Mostly technology is 5 or 6 years behind 
the rest of the world, generally. Most places I've worked for here use JSP and 
Struts 1. Obviously there are plenty of places that do cutting edge stuff, but 
it's few and far between.

I work for the only company I know of that uses Wicket (they used it before I 
came, but it's the reason why I'm here). I do plenty of searches for Wicket 
based jobs, as I'm still a contractor and other than here, there is nothing. 
Guess that means I'm hoping to stick around! ;)

Okay, how's this for Sod's Law. I figure I should do a quick search on 
seek.com.au before making these claims, and another company in Melbourne 
mentions Wicket as a nice-to-have on a job description... :)

Col.

-Original Message-
From: Michael Mosmann [mailto:mich...@mosmann.de]
Sent: 05 February 2013 08:33
To: users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Re: Wicket job market

Am 04.02.2013 15:43, schrieb manuelbarzi:
>> Play Framework, Apache Click, Stripes, Struts, JSF, Seam
>> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=%22Play+Framework%22%2C+%22Apache+C
>> lick%22%2C+Stripes%2C+Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Seam
>> What needs to be improved to get a wider adoption of Wicket ?
> IMO, "selling" Wicket as Vaadin does, may help a lot.
I think, you should not compare wicket with vaadin. Wicket is not the right 
answer for every project. Wicket does not compete with vaadin, because wicket 
is a different hammer. The rise of "javascript apps"
could change the future of web development, but for such a project you should 
not use wicket either. IMHO wicket is the better answer than struts, grails (if 
you have a long term maintenance cycle), jsf...

I think there are many wicket projects out there, but wicket is not the so 
called cool stuff like grails, spring roo and so on... nothing a developer 
likes to play with (which is IMHO a good thing). I think, this could be changed 
with wicket 6 (jquery build-in)... but it is a long way.

Michael


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Re: Wicket job market

[manuelbarzi]

> I think, you should not compare wicket with vaadin. Wicket is not the right
> answer for every project. Wicket does not compete with vaadin, because
> wicket is a different hammer. The rise of "javascript apps" could change the
> future of web development, but for such a project you should not use wicket
> either. IMHO wicket is the better answer than struts, grails (if you have a
> long term maintenance cycle), jsf...
>
> I think there are many wicket projects out there, but wicket is not the so
> called cool stuff like grails, spring roo and so on... nothing a developer
> likes to play with (which is IMHO a good thing). I think, this could be
> changed with wicket 6 (jquery build-in)... but it is a long way.

your loosing the focus pretended to be justify before: "marketing",
not tech. and many people "first see", later "think" :)

nobody was comparing Wicket with Vaadin, neither technically and
neither in any other similar aspects. but you seem to defend so it in
your mail. Vaadin is just mentioned as a good example (like it or not)
that gains a lot of adepts just because of its "cool marketing
presentation" at its website (in terms of style, look & feel, and
"special effects"). that's all. so could be any other tech that
applies similar commercial strategies.

just to give you an example: from many persons i know, who have
decision power in projects, and they have no idea about wicket, they
just say: "does wicket really have serious projects? is it actually
used? cause i see that GWT or Vaadin seem much more "worked",
professional, and nice". and you cannot pretend them to perfeclty
understand the differences between techs because they have no enough
technical skills to do so. sad (not really, is a nice feedback to
learn from) but true.

Wicket is probably the best most of us have ever enjoyed before. but
let's be realistic, there's the nice paradox of "non competitive
presentation of this presentation framework" yet, to be sold to "not
enough tech skilled" people, who are decision makers. they just want
to see "nice cinema". then, why not adding that to Wicket site, and be
more "marketineers" too?

i think we may all agree that in general, open-source projects in
Apache have a big lack of "cool presentation and marketing". and
marketing it is not a concept that goes against open-source, of
course. there are many nice open-source projects that do sell
them-selves well in their sites.

one nice idea could be: why not opening a competition to create a more
"marketineer" presentation of Wicket tech?

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Re: Wicket job market

[Michael Mosmann]

I agree with you.

The one thing i would say:if you want to have a nice presentation of vaadin,it 
comes out of the box,because thats a vaadin feature:nice presentation. No other 
framework has it such easy:)

So lets start a competition...

Michael:)



manuelbarzi  schrieb:

>> I think, you should not compare wicket with vaadin. Wicket is not the
>right
>> answer for every project. Wicket does not compete with vaadin,
>because
>> wicket is a different hammer. The rise of "javascript apps" could
>change the
>> future of web development, but for such a project you should not use
>wicket
>> either. IMHO wicket is the better answer than struts, grails (if you
>have a
>> long term maintenance cycle), jsf...
>>
>> I think there are many wicket projects out there, but wicket is not
>the so
>> called cool stuff like grails, spring roo and so on... nothing a
>developer
>> likes to play with (which is IMHO a good thing). I think, this could
>be
>> changed with wicket 6 (jquery build-in)... but it is a long way.
>
>your loosing the focus pretended to be justify before: "marketing",
>not tech. and many people "first see", later "think" :)
>
>nobody was comparing Wicket with Vaadin, neither technically and
>neither in any other similar aspects. but you seem to defend so it in
>your mail. Vaadin is just mentioned as a good example (like it or not)
>that gains a lot of adepts just because of its "cool marketing
>presentation" at its website (in terms of style, look & feel, and
>"special effects"). that's all. so could be any other tech that
>applies similar commercial strategies.
>
>just to give you an example: from many persons i know, who have
>decision power in projects, and they have no idea about wicket, they
>just say: "does wicket really have serious projects? is it actually
>used? cause i see that GWT or Vaadin seem much more "worked",
>professional, and nice". and you cannot pretend them to perfeclty
>understand the differences between techs because they have no enough
>technical skills to do so. sad (not really, is a nice feedback to
>learn from) but true.
>
>Wicket is probably the best most of us have ever enjoyed before. but
>let's be realistic, there's the nice paradox of "non competitive
>presentation of this presentation framework" yet, to be sold to "not
>enough tech skilled" people, who are decision makers. they just want
>to see "nice cinema". then, why not adding that to Wicket site, and be
>more "marketineers" too?
>
>i think we may all agree that in general, open-source projects in
>Apache have a big lack of "cool presentation and marketing". and
>marketing it is not a concept that goes against open-source, of
>course. there are many nice open-source projects that do sell
>them-selves well in their sites.
>
>one nice idea could be: why not opening a competition to create a more
>"marketineer" presentation of Wicket tech?
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
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RE: Wicket job market

[Chris Colman]

>>Wicket is probably the best most of us have ever enjoyed before. but
>>let's be realistic, there's the nice paradox of "non competitive
>>presentation of this presentation framework" yet, to be sold to "not
>>enough tech skilled" people, who are decision makers. they just want
>>to see "nice cinema". then, why not adding that to Wicket site, and be
>>more "marketineers" too?

+1

With very little effort and some CSS I would have thought the Wicket
website could be spruced up with big payoffs.

I mentioned this a couple of years back and someone sent some links of a
project to provide a 'new look' wicket site that looked 10x spunkier
than the current site. I don't know what happened to that project but I
think it would be well worth the effort to complete that.

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Re: Wicket job market

[Martin Grigorov]

If someone feels good enough in web design - HTML+CSS, video making,
everything that will make the site more attractive for both technical and
non-technical people:

the new site (unfinished) is at https://github.com/dashorst/wicket-site
the current site is at:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/wicket/common/site/trunk




On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Chris Colman
wrote:

> >>Wicket is probably the best most of us have ever enjoyed before. but
> >>let's be realistic, there's the nice paradox of "non competitive
> >>presentation of this presentation framework" yet, to be sold to "not
> >>enough tech skilled" people, who are decision makers. they just want
> >>to see "nice cinema". then, why not adding that to Wicket site, and be
> >>more "marketineers" too?
>
> +1
>
> With very little effort and some CSS I would have thought the Wicket
> website could be spruced up with big payoffs.
>
> I mentioned this a couple of years back and someone sent some links of a
> project to provide a 'new look' wicket site that looked 10x spunkier
> than the current site. I don't know what happened to that project but I
> think it would be well worth the effort to complete that.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Martin Grigorov
jWeekend
Training, Consulting, Development
http://jWeekend.com 

Re: Wicket job market

[manuelbarzi]

> The one thing i would say:if you want to have a nice presentation of 
> vaadin,it comes out of the box,because thats a vaadin feature:nice 
> presentation. No other framework has it such easy:)

Vaadin efficiently speaks the language of emotions.

> So lets start a competition...

Nice ;) but, i would add: caution!

1) Wicket "decision makers" may understand the same picture first.
Their support is needed.

2) SoC. As Wicket very well does and promotes - that's the main reason
it was created to - a Separation of Concerns should be accepted. Java
side is for the engineers, Html side is for the designers (in the
ideal case, we know). aligned with this same directive, it should be
accepted that the expertise of "marketineer" skilled people is
required to concentrate and contribute on Wicket "marketing strategy".
we are most engineers, "implementors", so help from people that
correctly dominates "marketing" should be recruited and accepted.

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Re: Wicket job market

[Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Chris Colman
wrote:

> >>Wicket is probably the best most of us have ever enjoyed before. but
> >>let's be realistic, there's the nice paradox of "non competitive
> >>presentation of this presentation framework" yet, to be sold to "not
> >>enough tech skilled" people, who are decision makers. they just want
> >>to see "nice cinema". then, why not adding that to Wicket site, and be
> >>more "marketineers" too?
>
> +1
>
> With very little effort and some CSS I would have thought the Wicket
> website could be spruced up with big payoffs.
>
> I mentioned this a couple of years back and someone sent some links of a
> project to provide a 'new look' wicket site that looked 10x spunkier
> than the current site. I don't know what happened to that project but I
> think it would be well worth the effort to complete that.
>
>
As always problem boils down to: who bells the cat? There are not many
active developers... as far as I can see... and they are doing an
excellent/dedicated work fixing issues .

I would extend the above task to include a nice looking components
showcase...

-- 
Regards - Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro
Antilia Soft
http://antiliasoft.com/ 

Re: Wicket job market

[manuelbarzi]

> If someone feels good enough in web design - HTML+CSS, video making,
> everything that will make the site more attractive for both technical and
> non-technical people:
>
> the new site (unfinished) is at https://github.com/dashorst/wicket-site
> the current site is at:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/wicket/common/site/trunk

i think this is missing what answered before. it is not only a
question of HTML + CSS. it's also a "marketing strategy" that should
be worked too, and this is not our area. would you accept that?

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RE: Wicket job market

[Chris Colman]

>your loosing the focus pretended to be justify before: "marketing",
>not tech. and many people "first see", later "think" :)

I think the problem is that most good software engineers see 'beauty' in
the elegant component based, object oriented architecture of Wicket - we
can all go "oooh" and "h" just thinking about how truly beautiful
Wicket has been 'engineered'.
 
We see beauty beyond the external presentation.

People out in the real world however, or developers who don't get the
"oooh/aaah" value from elegant design and architecture, are usually
'beauty is only skin deep' people - and given then don't care about
elegant engineering 'under the hood' their evaluation of the 'goodness'
of something is based totally on the appearance of the 'skin'.

I think we have to grasp the concept that there are two different types
of people and they're on opposite ends of the spectrum - the less
'engineering' someone is the more they crave 'funky look and feel'.

Because of the above, and maybe I'm going out on a limb here, IMHO
Wicket's much wider adoption is totally reliant on improving the Wicket
website's 'looks' to newcomers on their first visit.

Regards,
Chris

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Re: Wicket job market

[Francois Meillet]

Thanks Philippe for raising this issue

Maybe it's time to take a step back to better analyse the situation and where 
we want to go.
Because we don't want to be the only ones using the best framework. 

What need to be done ?

If we promote Wicket right now, we will end up with a big failure.
In marketing, you don't sell the product, but the product's perception people 
have.

So what could be the plan ?

I would say, in that order :

-up to date documentation
-user friendly documentation
-more exemples for beginners

and, once it's done, I repeat, once it's done,

-marketing slides for decision makers
-more buzz in any java/web forum to promote wicket


François

Le 5 févr. 2013 à 09:52, "Chris Colman"  a écrit :

>> your loosing the focus pretended to be justify before: "marketing",
>> not tech. and many people "first see", later "think" :)
> 
> I think the problem is that most good software engineers see 'beauty' in
> the elegant component based, object oriented architecture of Wicket - we
> can all go "oooh" and "h" just thinking about how truly beautiful
> Wicket has been 'engineered'.
> 
> We see beauty beyond the external presentation.
> 
> People out in the real world however, or developers who don't get the
> "oooh/aaah" value from elegant design and architecture, are usually
> 'beauty is only skin deep' people - and given then don't care about
> elegant engineering 'under the hood' their evaluation of the 'goodness'
> of something is based totally on the appearance of the 'skin'.
> 
> I think we have to grasp the concept that there are two different types
> of people and they're on opposite ends of the spectrum - the less
> 'engineering' someone is the more they crave 'funky look and feel'.
> 
> Because of the above, and maybe I'm going out on a limb here, IMHO
> Wicket's much wider adoption is totally reliant on improving the Wicket
> website's 'looks' to newcomers on their first visit.
> 
> Regards,
> Chris
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
> 


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Re: Wicket job market

[Martin Grigorov]

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Francois Meillet <
francois.meil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Philippe for raising this issue
>
> Maybe it's time to take a step back to better analyse the situation and
> where we want to go.
> Because we don't want to be the only ones using the best framework.
>
> What need to be done ?
>
> If we promote Wicket right now, we will end up with a big failure.
> In marketing, you don't sell the product, but the product's perception
> people have.
>
> So what could be the plan ?
>
> I would say, in that order :
>
> -up to date documentation
> -user friendly documentation
> -more exemples for beginners
>

branch:
https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/wicket/repo?p=wicket.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/reference-guide
current state: http://martin-g.github.com/wicket-reference-guide/

I'll probably be able to document a topic or at most two per week.
Then based on the types of questions in the mailing lists I'll update the
docs and add more topics.


>
> and, once it's done, I repeat, once it's done,
>

> -marketing slides for decision makers
> -more buzz in any java/web forum to promote wicket
>
>
> François
>
> Le 5 févr. 2013 à 09:52, "Chris Colman"  a
> écrit :
>
> >> your loosing the focus pretended to be justify before: "marketing",
> >> not tech. and many people "first see", later "think" :)
> >
> > I think the problem is that most good software engineers see 'beauty' in
> > the elegant component based, object oriented architecture of Wicket - we
> > can all go "oooh" and "h" just thinking about how truly beautiful
> > Wicket has been 'engineered'.
> >
> > We see beauty beyond the external presentation.
> >
> > People out in the real world however, or developers who don't get the
> > "oooh/aaah" value from elegant design and architecture, are usually
> > 'beauty is only skin deep' people - and given then don't care about
> > elegant engineering 'under the hood' their evaluation of the 'goodness'
> > of something is based totally on the appearance of the 'skin'.
> >
> > I think we have to grasp the concept that there are two different types
> > of people and they're on opposite ends of the spectrum - the less
> > 'engineering' someone is the more they crave 'funky look and feel'.
> >
> > Because of the above, and maybe I'm going out on a limb here, IMHO
> > Wicket's much wider adoption is totally reliant on improving the Wicket
> > website's 'looks' to newcomers on their first visit.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chris
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Martin Grigorov
jWeekend
Training, Consulting, Development
http://jWeekend.com 

Re: Wicket job market

[manuelbarzi]

> I think the problem is that most good software engineers see 'beauty' in
> the elegant component based, object oriented architecture of Wicket - we
> can all go "oooh" and "h" just thinking about how truly beautiful
> Wicket has been 'engineered'.
>
> We see beauty beyond the external presentation.
>
> People out in the real world however, or developers who don't get the
> "oooh/aaah" value from elegant design and architecture, are usually
> 'beauty is only skin deep' people - and given then don't care about
> elegant engineering 'under the hood' their evaluation of the 'goodness'
> of something is based totally on the appearance of the 'skin'.
>
> I think we have to grasp the concept that there are two different types
> of people and they're on opposite ends of the spectrum - the less
> 'engineering' someone is the more they crave 'funky look and feel'.
>
> Because of the above, and maybe I'm going out on a limb here, IMHO
> Wicket's much wider adoption is totally reliant on improving the Wicket
> website's 'looks' to newcomers on their first visit.

as expressed before: emotions. e... motion > motion > movement. the
nice emotions you experiment as an engineer on wicket, the same
non-techs experiment on render-side. but at the end what moves you,
and other people, the hole world: emotions. so let's speak that
language at the non-dominated side yet, but not only in look & feel
(design), also in strategy (marketing).

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Re: Wicket job market

[Bernard]

I think it would be exhausting and possibly risky to rely on the
appeal of the Wicket site. This appeal can already be provided by
third party sites that use Wicket. A developer can then choose to show
management a selection of sites that are relevant in context.

What drives adoption rate is development efficiency, meeting deadlines
and ease of deployment.

Sure in small markets it is difficult to find developers for Wicket,
but it is not difficult to convince a manager with the prospect of an
earlier completion date even if a couple of developers have to be
trained (or may not have to be trained because they can focus on
HTML). It is not very difficult to convince managers of that.

So what is wrong? Why is it not working? I can't provide the full
answer. But to feel confident about meeting deadlines, I would like to
see improvements in the following areas:

1) Better support of statelessness in general
2) Some stateless AJAX if possible, even if only in basic cases with
constraints say for auto-complete text fields
3) Transition from stateless pages to statful pages
4) Recovery from loss of state. Is implemented but it does not work.

So while after so many years, we don't have that, I can only
confidently recommend to use Wicket if users are allowed to have 10
hour web sessions (I have been there), or the users are already used
to be kicked out after x minutes like in some online banking sites.

Most users today are used to remember-me cookies. So how do we explain
to them that a page expired while they can "prove" that they were
still signed in?

Bernard


On Tue, 5 Feb 2013 19:52:18 +1100, you wrote:

>>your loosing the focus pretended to be justify before: "marketing",
>>not tech. and many people "first see", later "think" :)
>
>I think the problem is that most good software engineers see 'beauty' in
>the elegant component based, object oriented architecture of Wicket - we
>can all go "oooh" and "h" just thinking about how truly beautiful
>Wicket has been 'engineered'.
> 
>We see beauty beyond the external presentation.
>
>People out in the real world however, or developers who don't get the
>"oooh/aaah" value from elegant design and architecture, are usually
>'beauty is only skin deep' people - and given then don't care about
>elegant engineering 'under the hood' their evaluation of the 'goodness'
>of something is based totally on the appearance of the 'skin'.
>
>I think we have to grasp the concept that there are two different types
>of people and they're on opposite ends of the spectrum - the less
>'engineering' someone is the more they crave 'funky look and feel'.
>
>Because of the above, and maybe I'm going out on a limb here, IMHO
>Wicket's much wider adoption is totally reliant on improving the Wicket
>website's 'looks' to newcomers on their first visit.
>
>Regards,
>Chris
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org


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Re: Wicket job market

[Andrea Del Bene]

Reading the mails sent so far, I think Wicket should improve two aspects:

-Its "promotion"
-Support for stateless usage.

The second point has already been indicated as a target for Wicket 7. 
The "promotion" stuff is probably the most challenging because many of 
Wicket supporters has technical skills rather than promotional.
IMHO a first concrete and easy-to-do step to make Wicket more appealing 
is creating a "Showcase" link for left menu that points to live 
examples. In the current site live examples don't have enough visibility 
(just my two cents).
We should also add some Wicket-stuff live examples to show some of the 
most eye-catching modules.

I think it would be exhausting and possibly risky to rely on the
appeal of the Wicket site. This appeal can already be provided by
third party sites that use Wicket. A developer can then choose to show
management a selection of sites that are relevant in context.

What drives adoption rate is development efficiency, meeting deadlines
and ease of deployment.

Sure in small markets it is difficult to find developers for Wicket,
but it is not difficult to convince a manager with the prospect of an
earlier completion date even if a couple of developers have to be
trained (or may not have to be trained because they can focus on
HTML). It is not very difficult to convince managers of that.

So what is wrong? Why is it not working? I can't provide the full
answer. But to feel confident about meeting deadlines, I would like to
see improvements in the following areas:

1) Better support of statelessness in general
2) Some stateless AJAX if possible, even if only in basic cases with
constraints say for auto-complete text fields
3) Transition from stateless pages to statful pages
4) Recovery from loss of state. Is implemented but it does not work.

So while after so many years, we don't have that, I can only
confidently recommend to use Wicket if users are allowed to have 10
hour web sessions (I have been there), or the users are already used
to be kicked out after x minutes like in some online banking sites.

Most users today are used to remember-me cookies. So how do we explain
to them that a page expired while they can "prove" that they were
still signed in?

Bernard


On Tue, 5 Feb 2013 19:52:18 +1100, you wrote:


your loosing the focus pretended to be justify before: "marketing",
not tech. and many people "first see", later "think" :)

I think the problem is that most good software engineers see 'beauty' in
the elegant component based, object oriented architecture of Wicket - we
can all go "oooh" and "h" just thinking about how truly beautiful
Wicket has been 'engineered'.

We see beauty beyond the external presentation.

People out in the real world however, or developers who don't get the
"oooh/aaah" value from elegant design and architecture, are usually
'beauty is only skin deep' people - and given then don't care about
elegant engineering 'under the hood' their evaluation of the 'goodness'
of something is based totally on the appearance of the 'skin'.

I think we have to grasp the concept that there are two different types
of people and they're on opposite ends of the spectrum - the less
'engineering' someone is the more they crave 'funky look and feel'.

Because of the above, and maybe I'm going out on a limb here, IMHO
Wicket's much wider adoption is totally reliant on improving the Wicket
website's 'looks' to newcomers on their first visit.

Regards,
Chris

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Re: Wicket job market

[manuelbarzi]

> Reading the mails sent so far, I think Wicket should improve two aspects:
>
> -Its "promotion"
> -Support for stateless usage.
>
> The second point has already been indicated as a target for Wicket 7. The
> "promotion" stuff is probably the most challenging because many of Wicket
> supporters has technical skills rather than promotional.
> IMHO a first concrete and easy-to-do step to make Wicket more appealing is
> creating a "Showcase" link for left menu that points to live examples. In
> the current site live examples don't have enough visibility (just my two
> cents).
> We should also add some Wicket-stuff live examples to show some of the most
> eye-catching modules.

you are opining & projecting like an engineer, not as an expert in the
"promotion" area you mention. insisting to the infinite: expertise on
on how to focus not only the new look & feel, but the contents, the
information, what and how to be presented, is required. and this is
not an engineer skill. engineers can help complementing it, but not
exactly focusing it.

moreover, with the help of this "promotion" (marketineer) expertise,
there's no need to re-invent the wheel. just see how others - the
competence - do well in this area, and learn from them, instead of
rejecting that by other "tech-thical" reasons.

expertise in tech-market to focus it required, watching the competence.

as one ever said: it is very important WHAT, but more important HOW.

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Re: Wicket job market

[Martin Grigorov]

The list at
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WICKET/Ideas+for+Wicket+7.0 is
just ideas as stated at the top.
Probably we should create tickets in Jira so people can vote for them.


On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Andrea Del Bene wrote:

> Reading the mails sent so far, I think Wicket should improve two aspects:
>
> -Its "promotion"
> -Support for stateless usage.
>
> The second point has already been indicated as a target for Wicket 7. The
> "promotion" stuff is probably the most challenging because many of Wicket
> supporters has technical skills rather than promotional.
> IMHO a first concrete and easy-to-do step to make Wicket more appealing is
> creating a "Showcase" link for left menu that points to live examples. In
> the current site live examples don't have enough visibility (just my two
> cents).
> We should also add some Wicket-stuff live examples to show some of the
> most eye-catching modules.


Currently on InMethod Grid examples are hosted at
http://www.wicket-library.com/inmethod-grid/data-grid/simple?0
Which others you find as a good enough to be promoted ?


>
>  I think it would be exhausting and possibly risky to rely on the
>> appeal of the Wicket site. This appeal can already be provided by
>> third party sites that use Wicket. A developer can then choose to show
>> management a selection of sites that are relevant in context.
>>
>> What drives adoption rate is development efficiency, meeting deadlines
>> and ease of deployment.
>>
>> Sure in small markets it is difficult to find developers for Wicket,
>> but it is not difficult to convince a manager with the prospect of an
>> earlier completion date even if a couple of developers have to be
>> trained (or may not have to be trained because they can focus on
>> HTML). It is not very difficult to convince managers of that.
>>
>> So what is wrong? Why is it not working? I can't provide the full
>> answer. But to feel confident about meeting deadlines, I would like to
>> see improvements in the following areas:
>>
>> 1) Better support of statelessness in general
>> 2) Some stateless AJAX if possible, even if only in basic cases with
>> constraints say for auto-complete text fields
>> 3) Transition from stateless pages to statful pages
>> 4) Recovery from loss of state. Is implemented but it does not work.
>>
>> So while after so many years, we don't have that, I can only
>> confidently recommend to use Wicket if users are allowed to have 10
>> hour web sessions (I have been there), or the users are already used
>> to be kicked out after x minutes like in some online banking sites.
>>
>> Most users today are used to remember-me cookies. So how do we explain
>> to them that a page expired while they can "prove" that they were
>> still signed in?
>>
>> Bernard
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 5 Feb 2013 19:52:18 +1100, you wrote:
>>
>>  your loosing the focus pretended to be justify before: "marketing",
 not tech. and many people "first see", later "think" :)

>>> I think the problem is that most good software engineers see 'beauty' in
>>> the elegant component based, object oriented architecture of Wicket - we
>>> can all go "oooh" and "h" just thinking about how truly beautiful
>>> Wicket has been 'engineered'.
>>>
>>> We see beauty beyond the external presentation.
>>>
>>> People out in the real world however, or developers who don't get the
>>> "oooh/aaah" value from elegant design and architecture, are usually
>>> 'beauty is only skin deep' people - and given then don't care about
>>> elegant engineering 'under the hood' their evaluation of the 'goodness'
>>> of something is based totally on the appearance of the 'skin'.
>>>
>>> I think we have to grasp the concept that there are two different types
>>> of people and they're on opposite ends of the spectrum - the less
>>> 'engineering' someone is the more they crave 'funky look and feel'.
>>>
>>> Because of the above, and maybe I'm going out on a limb here, IMHO
>>> Wicket's much wider adoption is totally reliant on improving the Wicket
>>> website's 'looks' to newcomers on their first visit.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> --**--**
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>>> users-unsubscribe@wicket.**apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> --**--**-
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>> users-unsubscribe@wicket.**apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> --**--**-
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> users-unsubscribe@wicket.**apache.org
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>
>


-- 
Martin Grigorov
jWeekend
Training, Consulting, Development
http://jWeekend.com 

Re: Wicket job market

[Andrea Del Bene]

I would add modules TinyMCE, Google Maps and jqPlot. An example of 
integration with Facebook could be "cool" as well :)

The list at
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WICKET/Ideas+for+Wicket+7.0 is
just ideas as stated at the top.
Probably we should create tickets in Jira so people can vote for them.


On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Andrea Del Bene wrote:


Reading the mails sent so far, I think Wicket should improve two aspects:

-Its "promotion"
-Support for stateless usage.

The second point has already been indicated as a target for Wicket 7. The
"promotion" stuff is probably the most challenging because many of Wicket
supporters has technical skills rather than promotional.
IMHO a first concrete and easy-to-do step to make Wicket more appealing is
creating a "Showcase" link for left menu that points to live examples. In
the current site live examples don't have enough visibility (just my two
cents).
We should also add some Wicket-stuff live examples to show some of the
most eye-catching modules.


Currently on InMethod Grid examples are hosted at
http://www.wicket-library.com/inmethod-grid/data-grid/simple?0
Which others you find as a good enough to be promoted ?





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Re: Wicket job market

[Martin Grigorov]

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 7:45 PM, procrastinative.developer <
procrastinative.develo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I really enjoy wicket, it's really easy to create complex site with it. For
> me the biggest problem was a 'wicket way'. To create site effectivly, we
> need to learn a lot about how wicket works etc. Without good documentation
> process of learning can be frustrating.
>
>  I see this problems in wicket:
>  1)lack of good documentation (for beginners is ok, but for more complex
> problems sometimes I need to spend a lot of time to discover how I need to
> do that)
>

since you know better some parts of Wicket now I officially invite you to
help me with the new reference guide for beginners. See my previous mail in
this thread for the urls
many people complain about this but no one offered help so far


>  2)lack of good IDE support - I use netbeans and intellij and tools for it
> are not very good.
>

Intellij has very good support for Java/Scala/Groovy, HTML, JS, HTML, CSS
:-)

 3)lack of good list of tools -in my wicket career i found a lot usefull
> tools, but in 50% it was a matter of luck.
>

what kind of tools do you mean ? which are the useful ones ?


>  4)a lot of abandoned plugins - because of a lot of api breaks between
> wicket 1.4 and wicket 6.0 some plugin not working with current version of
> wicket.
>

Here is my point of view here - the abandoned plugins are those which are
not very useful to the community.
Since no one migrated them means that no one needed them so far.
Many libraries have migrated so it is not so hard.


>
> Wicket developers did a lot of good work. Wicket popularity depends on
> wicket community. Maybe developers of plugins and wicket tools(not only
> wicket components, but also IDE plugins developers and tools like wicket
> RAD
> etc) should give feedback what they need for easier tools creation. Wicket
> dev should freeze api. I think that now wicket is very mature framework and
> with version 6.0 its time to start building infrastructure around it that
> help developers to create webapplications.
>
> Maybe it's time to build site like "wicket repository" where user can
> publish and search information about created by other users plugins?
>

The repository is at https://github.com/wicketstuff/core Why do you need
something else ? Who will maintain several repositories ? This will just
confuse all new developers.
Pick an issue from
https://github.com/wicketstuff/core/issues?direction=desc&sort=created&state=open
and
make your contribution to the community.


>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://apache-wicket.1842946.n4.nabble.com/Wicket-job-market-tp4656048p4656092.html
> Sent from the Users forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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-- 
Martin Grigorov
jWeekend
Training, Consulting, Development
http://jWeekend.com <http://jweekend.com/>

Re: Wicket job market

[Nick Heudecker]

I'll wade into the point about IDE plugins since I was the original
maintainer of Wicketforge (https://code.google.com/p/wicketforge/), which
is still being actively developed by Minas Manthos.

As it stands today, Wicketforge is a great productivity enhancer when
developing Wicket apps. It provides autocompletion of Wicket IDs, templated
panel and page creation, as well as a few inspections and intentions to
make life easier (More info here:
https://code.google.com/p/wicketforge/wiki/PluginFeatures). More features
could be added, but the value is questionable given IDEA's already
excellent HTML and Java support.

Right now Wicketforge has no open tickets. If the plugin doesn't do
something you want it to do, checkout the source and contribute back. I'm
sure Minas would love to get some patches, and if he's busy I'll come out
of plugin retirement and take a look.

-Nick


On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:45 AM, procrastinative.developer <
procrastinative.develo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I really enjoy wicket, it's really easy to create complex site with it. For
> me the biggest problem was a 'wicket way'. To create site effectivly, we
> need to learn a lot about how wicket works etc. Without good documentation
> process of learning can be frustrating.
>
>  I see this problems in wicket:
>  1)lack of good documentation (for beginners is ok, but for more complex
> problems sometimes I need to spend a lot of time to discover how I need to
> do that)
>  2)lack of good IDE support - I use netbeans and intellij and tools for it
> are not very good.
>  3)lack of good list of tools -in my wicket career i found a lot usefull
> tools, but in 50% it was a matter of luck.
>  4)a lot of abandoned plugins - because of a lot of api breaks between
> wicket 1.4 and wicket 6.0 some plugin not working with current version of
> wicket.
>
> Wicket developers did a lot of good work. Wicket popularity depends on
> wicket community. Maybe developers of plugins and wicket tools(not only
> wicket components, but also IDE plugins developers and tools like wicket
> RAD
> etc) should give feedback what they need for easier tools creation. Wicket
> dev should freeze api. I think that now wicket is very mature framework and
> with version 6.0 its time to start building infrastructure around it that
> help developers to create webapplications.
>
> Maybe it's time to build site like "wicket repository" where user can
> publish and search information about created by other users plugins?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://apache-wicket.1842946.n4.nabble.com/Wicket-job-market-tp4656048p4656092.html
> Sent from the Users forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
>
>

Re: Wicket job market

[Nick Heudecker]

Did you file a ticket for the problems you experienced?

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM, procrastinative.developer <
procrastinative.develo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was testing this plugin a some time ago and I had a lot of problems with
> it
> (NPE, no switching between files). I was so frustrated about this
> situation,
> that I uninstall this plugin and  I resign from using it in development.
> Thanks about info, I will try this plugin again.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://apache-wicket.1842946.n4.nabble.com/Wicket-job-market-tp4656048p4656104.html
> Sent from the Users forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
>
>

Deployment models (was: Re: Wicket job market)

[Emmanouil Batsis (Manos)]

On 02/04/2013 02:05 PM, Philippe Demaison wrote:

What needs to be improved to get a wider adoption of Wicket ?


That is probably the most relevant subject IMHO.

FWIW, a largely disruptive factor is a new but increasingly important 
business/deployment model, that of the cross-domain, embedded 
client-side app.


Imagine you have an webapp that does XYZ and you offer that as a 
service. You may want to allow your clients to embed this functionality 
using Ajax+JSONP+cross domain (VS an iframe), i.e. embed your app by 
offering a pure javascript client. That's what I'm currently missing 
from wicket. This actually forces me to largely rewrite app by exposing 
REST interfaces and patching up a REST javascript client from scratch 
using something like backbone.js.


Just my 0.25.

Manos

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