Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
This whole group of messages just showed up today. It's not worthwhile going on with the discussion. But, just for my information, tell me how you would contact 911. Thanks. - Original Message - From: "Cara Quinn" To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 11:33 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Gary, what is the 911 issue? Perhaps you can share a bit more detail here? thank you so much! Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jun 14, 2014, at 2:22 AM, Gary Petraccaro wrote: Thanks for the link. I don't know about the typing speed vs. keyboard speed, but the article seems accurate to me, with the exception of 2 negatives he left out--the access to keys if a phone call leaves one in a menu, and the 911 issue. - Original Message - From: "Teresa Cochran" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 12:03 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Here is a link: https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm On the other hand, there are different fingers. On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Creating a contact from a text message: Open the text message conversation from the main list of conversations by double-tapping on it. At the top of the display will be the back button. A couple flicks to the right brings up the edit button. Double-tap on the edit button. Flick right to find the more info button. If it is a long conversation chain, sometimes the display will drop to the most recent entries and one needs to start again by going to the top and doublevery-tapping the edit button. Double-tap on the More Info button and a new screen pops up. Right flick through this screen to find the create new contact button or the add to existing contact button, and double-tap on the desired button. Now, the contact app is launched. If add new contact was selected, the create new contact screen is opened with the known information already placed in its field(s) (phone number and/or email address). If add to existing contact is selected, the main contact screen is open so one can choose which contact to modify. Opening a contact causes the known info to be placed in the appropriate fields. When done or cancel is double-tapped, contacts is closed and one is placed back where one started in the message app. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 8 Jun 2014, at 7:59, "Rose Combs " wrote: > > I think I can see the iPhone not being for every blind person, those of us > on this list, naturally use one or another I-device so we all feel it is > relatively easy but an older blind person who may not orient well to touch, > may be slow in picking things up ... may not be a good candidate. > > Some here would say I am not a good candidate at this moment. My husband > passed last Friday and since them things I could do either take me a while > to figure out or I don't do them. Anyone want to assist me in how to make a > contact from a text message? I accidently unsubscribed from this list, > took me two days to figure out how to get back, and had it not been for > Anna's latest book on the iPhone, I probably would not be here now, however, > my phone used to get all the mail from this list and right now I can't even > begin to get my head around how to get it back that way. I keep having > these blond days lately. It seems to happen when I know we have a lot of > batteries and can't find them, then out of the blue I know exactly where > they are and by the time I get there I wonder what I am looking for. > > I do have a couple of messages with info I would like to put into a contact, > not mail but text messages and for the life of me I can't copy so can't > paste this week, although a month ago I could have. > > Sorry if I strayed from the topic, any help appreciated, however. > > > Rose Combs > > roseco...@q.com > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of alia robinson > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 4:06 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > I don't listen anymore than to anyone else. I have no idea who he is, and > don't care. It is just a person's opinion, no different than anyone on this > list. > > alia >> On Jun 6, 2014, at 6:25 PM, Andy Baracco wrote: >> >> Except that Mr. Chong isn't just another person. He is well known and > respected in the blindness tech arena and when he talks, people listen. It > is different than if you or I say something. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's po
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I am a shaman. I agree, and am seriously considering placing a pagan tagline in my emails. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 6 Jun 2014, at 0:58, alia robinson wrote: > > I am a witch, how many people would thank me for a pagan tagline? I do not > need/want religion on my iphone list. >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 8:33 AM, cathy harris wrote: >> >> Cheryl, >> >> Just wanted to tell you, I really love your tag line at the bottom of your >> e-mail...Lamentations 3:21-23. I have turned to those verses many a time. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hi Gary, Perhaps I'm not understanding you but I am simply asking what the 911 issue is that you were talking about, as I am not familiar with it. I am not making any commentary on the article itself. I am just wondering about your prior note? If you are asking how I would call 911, I would simply dial it. Short of that, I would use Siri. What am I missing here? Thanks a bunch for finally responding! Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jun 25, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Gary Petraccaro wrote: This whole group of messages just showed up today. It's not worthwhile going on with the discussion. But, just for my information, tell me how you would contact 911. Thanks. - Original Message - From: "Cara Quinn" To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 11:33 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Gary, what is the 911 issue? Perhaps you can share a bit more detail here? thank you so much! Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jun 14, 2014, at 2:22 AM, Gary Petraccaro wrote: Thanks for the link. I don't know about the typing speed vs. keyboard speed, but the article seems accurate to me, with the exception of 2 negatives he left out--the access to keys if a phone call leaves one in a menu, and the 911 issue. - Original Message - From: "Teresa Cochran" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 12:03 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Here is a link: https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm On the other hand, there are different fingers. On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: > Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering > the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would > be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are > "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I > plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to > the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most > irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. > Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any > other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece > infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and > many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article > seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness > organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will > be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims > are "not good" about the device. > -- > Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel > free to visit my LinkedIn profile > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog > http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter > http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer > Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually > Impaired > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you > have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you > feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives > for this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Nothing. I had heard on this list that that was impossible. Thank you for making things clearer to me. - Original Message - From: "Cara Quinn" To: Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 12:46 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Gary, Perhaps I'm not understanding you but I am simply asking what the 911 issue is that you were talking about, as I am not familiar with it. I am not making any commentary on the article itself. I am just wondering about your prior note? If you are asking how I would call 911, I would simply dial it. Short of that, I would use Siri. What am I missing here? Thanks a bunch for finally responding! Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jun 25, 2014, at 2:19 PM, Gary Petraccaro wrote: This whole group of messages just showed up today. It's not worthwhile going on with the discussion. But, just for my information, tell me how you would contact 911. Thanks. - Original Message - From: "Cara Quinn" To: Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 11:33 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Gary, what is the 911 issue? Perhaps you can share a bit more detail here? thank you so much! Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Jun 14, 2014, at 2:22 AM, Gary Petraccaro wrote: Thanks for the link. I don't know about the typing speed vs. keyboard speed, but the article seems accurate to me, with the exception of 2 negatives he left out--the access to keys if a phone call leaves one in a menu, and the 911 issue. - Original Message - From: "Teresa Cochran" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 12:03 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Here is a link: https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm On the other hand, there are different fingers. On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Here is a link: https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm On the other hand, there are different fingers. On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: > Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the > supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very > difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" > about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write > a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten > objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces > of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that > this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a > criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB > is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of > the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a > nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people > may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to > things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. > -- > Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free > to visit my LinkedIn profile > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog > http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter > http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer > Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually > Impaired > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
HI David and others, I just read the article, which can be found here: https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm In my opinion, the article reads like it was written by an amateur. . Some of this person's complaints would apply to any phone such as fees and size. Wow, what a ridiculous set of arguments. Joseph - Original Message - From: "'David Goldfield' via VIPhone" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 8:52 PM Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if addressed to most blind folks out there. Teresa "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: > Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the > supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very > difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" > about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write > a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten > objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces > of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that > this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a > criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB > is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of > the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a > nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people > may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to > things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. > -- > Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free > to visit my LinkedIn profile > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog > http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter > http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer > Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually > Impaired > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Teresa, thank you. You actually brought up several things I wanted to address and I'm glad to know it's not just me. Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired On 6/5/2014 12:18 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote: Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if addressed to most blind folks out there. Teresa "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if addressed to most blind folks out there. Teresa "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: > Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. > -- > Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also has he ever heard of wifi? Simply shocking from someone who should know better. Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. Din - Original Message - From: Neal Ewers To: viphone@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > > Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It > would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone > younger. > > Neal > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Teresa Cochran > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If > you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without > a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards > they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old > method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad > keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? > What is Siri? Hmmm. > > I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who > receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A > well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they > can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention > would have been a good idea. > > having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if > addressed to most blind folks out there. > > Teresa > > "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham > > On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone > wrote: > > > Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering > the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be > very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not > good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to > write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten > objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces > of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that > this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even > a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the > NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers > of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a > nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people > may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to > things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. > > -- > > Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel > free to visit my LinkedIn profile > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog > http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter > http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer > Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually > Impaired > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have > any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel > that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for > this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is im
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hi An interesting article. My only complain is that about half of the good points were already available even with latest Symbian phones. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 Joseph FreeTech kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 21:09:31 -0700 From: Joseph FreeTech To: viphone@googlegroups.com HI David and others, I just read the article, which can be found here: https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm In my opinion, the article reads like it was written by an amateur. . Some of this person's complaints would apply to any phone such as fees and size. Wow, what a ridiculous set of arguments. Joseph - Original Message - From: "'David Goldfield' via VIPhone" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 8:52 PM Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
canner, radio tuner, game player and object recognizer they might just want to use it for more than just making and receiving phone calls. 8. The iPhone is not cheap. Even with a two-year contract, the basic unit can cost $200. The full retail price of the iPhone is approximately $650. I received my iPhone 5C, 32 GB version, for free if I agreed to sign a two-year contract with Verizon, which I was more than happy to do. Admittedly, that particular deal expired on March 31 of this year but I have heard that at least one other carrier was offering a similar deal. It is likely that consumers who do a bit of searching will be able to acquire an iPhone for a fraction of the actual cost if they are willing to sign a contract with the carrier. 9. First-time users of the iPhone have reported initial frustration with this powerful technology. It is not uncommon for these people to feel as if they want to throw the phone away during the first month. Answering calls and hanging up calls seem to be two particularly difficult problems for beginning iPhone users. Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to some consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a percentage of users who experienced frustration with their screen reader during the first few weeks or months of use. It is common for people to find a new piece of hardware or software frustrating or difficult to use when they're first learning how to use the product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen is a very different way of interacting with a device and frustration can occur. This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as blind consumers so this really is a very silly objection. 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not benefit from this technology. Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with difficulties with hand movement. I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that NFB Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things which were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible journalism. Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a very influential organization and many of its members as well as readers of the Braille Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are being published by a well-known and well-respected organization which claims to represent the visually impaired. I am concerned that this article could convince many blind people, as well as friends and family members who support them, that the iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is tragic, as it could potentially be responsible for deterring blind consumers from enjoying a device whose functionality is unmatched by any competitor. It is my sincere hope that Mr. Chong would examine the validity or lack thereof of the objections which he states in his article and that he would consider writing a follow-up piece to correct these statements. Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this, I t
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Well, I'm getting old enough that that sounds agist to me, Neal. Maybe it's a factor in some cases, but I should think there are people of a certain age who might write such an article with a different tone. Teresa Visualize whirled peas. On Jun 4, 2014, at 10:13 PM, Neal Ewers wrote: > Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It > would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone > younger. > > Neal > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Teresa Cochran > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If > you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without > a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards > they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old > method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad > keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? > What is Siri? Hmmm. > > I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who > receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A > well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they > can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention > would have been a good idea. > > having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if > addressed to most blind folks out there. > > Teresa > > "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham > > On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone > wrote: > >> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering > the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be > very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not > good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to > write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten > objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces > of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that > this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even > a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the > NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers > of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a > nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people > may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to > things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. >> -- >> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel > free to visit my LinkedIn profile > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog > http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter > http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer > Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually > Impaired >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have > any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel > that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for > this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Age in and of itself means nothing. I am going to be 62 in July. Certainly age mixed with some other factors could be significant. > -- > Cheryl > I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf. > I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper thrown in the trash! > Then God gave me a new heart and life: > His joy for my despairing tears! > And now, every day: > "This I call to mind, and therefore I have hope: > The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; > his mercies never come to an end; > they are new every morning; > great is your faithfulness." > (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV) > On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: > > Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It > would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone > younger. > > Neal > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Teresa Cochran > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If > you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without > a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards > they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old > method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad > keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? > What is Siri? Hmmm. > > I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who > receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A > well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they > can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention > would have been a good idea. > > having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if > addressed to most blind folks out there. > > Teresa > > "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham > > On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone > wrote: > >> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering > the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be > very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not > good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to > write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten > objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces > of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that > this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even > a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the > NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers > of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a > nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people > may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to > things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. >> -- >> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel > free to visit my LinkedIn profile > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog > http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter > http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer > Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually > Impaired >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have > any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel > that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for > this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > Th
RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Well, and I am guessing that I am even older than you, perhaps. So my argument just went out the window. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 12:35 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Well, I'm getting old enough that that sounds agist to me, Neal. Maybe it's a factor in some cases, but I should think there are people of a certain age who might write such an article with a different tone. Teresa Visualize whirled peas. On Jun 4, 2014, at 10:13 PM, Neal Ewers wrote: > Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. > It would have been interesting if the article had been written by > someone younger. > > Neal > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Teresa Cochran > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get > one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or > an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the > virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular > keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a > "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? > What is Siri? Hmmm. > > I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who > receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A > well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why > they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more > one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. > > having said this, I think this article is more than a tad > condescending, if addressed to most blind folks out there. > > Teresa > > "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham > > On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone > wrote: > >> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article >> covering > the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it > would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things > which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did > just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week > with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's > one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from > that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash > about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the > Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly > influential organization and many of its members and readers of the > Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a > nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many > people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. >> -- >> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info >> Feel > free to visit my LinkedIn profile > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog > http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter > http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and > Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and > Visually Impaired >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone > list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If > you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > The archives for this list can be searched at > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google > Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.go
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then crippled. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: > > The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple does > not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. > Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also has > he ever heard of wifi? > > Simply shocking from someone who should know better. > Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb technology > user's group. Don't know if still is or not. > Din > > > - Original Message - > From: Neal Ewers > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm > Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > >> >> >> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >> younger. >> >> Neal >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Teresa Cochran >> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If >> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without >> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old >> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad >> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? >> What is Siri? Hmmm. >> >> I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who >> receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A >> well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they >> can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention >> would have been a good idea. >> >> having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if >> addressed to most blind folks out there. >> >> Teresa >> >> "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham >> >> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone >> wrote: >> >>> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering >> the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be >> very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not >> good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to >> write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten >> objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces >> of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that >> this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even >> a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the >> NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers >> of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a >> nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people >> may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to >> things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. >>> -- >>> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel >> free to visit my LinkedIn profile >> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog >> http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter >> http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield,
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
is a very silly objection. > 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap > quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not > benefit from this technology. > Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I > remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with > difficulties with hand movement. > I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of > owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that NFB > Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things which > were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible journalism. > Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a very influential > organization and many of its members as well as readers of the Braille > Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are being published > by a well-known and well-respected organization which claims to represent the > visually impaired. I am concerned that this article could convince many blind > people, as well as friends and family members who support them, that the > iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is tragic, as it could > potentially be responsible for deterring blind consumers from enjoying a > device whose functionality is unmatched by any competitor. It is my sincere > hope that Mr. Chong would examine the validity or lack thereof of the > objections which he states in his article and that he would consider writing > a follow-up piece to correct these statements. > Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free > to visit my LinkedIn profile > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog > http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter > http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer > Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually > Impaired >> On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: >> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >> younger. >> >> Neal >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Teresa Cochran >> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If >> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without >> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old >> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad >> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? >> What is Siri? Hmmm. >> >> I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who >> receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A >> well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they >> can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention >> would have been a good idea. >> >> having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if >> addressed to most blind folks out there. >> >> Teresa >> >> "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham >> >> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone >> wrote: >> >>> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering >> the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be >> very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not >> good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to >> write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten >> objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces >> of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that >> this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even >> a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the >> NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers >> of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a >>
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, but why should blind people be any different than the general population. This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted people do. On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then crippled. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also has he ever heard of wifi? Simply shocking from someone who should know better. Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. Din - Original Message - From: Neal Ewers To: viphone@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if addressed to most blind folks out there. Teresa "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article serious
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hi Comments about comments about comments: 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. Keyboards are even bulkiert than the iphone itself. If i have to dictate something i can call with same effort. 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone demonstrates, with a properly designed user interface, that blind people can successfully operate a touchscreen. But people who prefer tactile buttons are still disappointed. 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to charge it at least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille 'n Speak could give us 30 hours of battery life from one charge. However, this is a non-issue. During the day, I connect my iPhone to my computer's USB port and when I get home I connect it to my computer for a few hours before going to bed. Turning off Bluetooth, if you're not using that service, and turning your screen brightness down to zero percent will do a lot to save battery life. Besides, it's not exactly a major inconvenience to plug the thing into a computer or a wall outlet every night. It depends if you have a computer or usb connector near you. For example for a long bus or train journey if you like to follow your location on gps there are not always a usb port to charge. GPS is especially power hungry. 6. The iPhone is not small. It is bigger than a lot of flip phones. response: are you serious? Really, are you kidding me? My wife's Motorola Droid Ultra has a wider form factor. The iPhone fits very comfortably in one hand. I mean, we're not talking about a device like an iPad or a Kindle 8.9 HDX. Should i list here all the smaller phones i know? 7. For a lot of people the iPhone is a lot more technology than they want. It is not for someone who just wants a phone to make and receive calls. response: true, but once blind people discover that the iPhone can act as their digital book player, restaurant menu reader, Web browser, email client, money identifier, barco
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Until I purchased a Windows Pocket PC SmartPhone, I was only able to use a mobile phone to make phone calls. I couldn't send, or read, text messages. Yes, it was not fair, and being blind is not fair. And, even worse, considering that legal blindness is 0.5% of the population, any feature phone made for blind people will be more expensive than the top-of-the-line SmartPhone, the iPhone. The fact is, sighted people do not want phones that constantly jabber away. They find it to be extremely irritating. Blind people are such a tiny market that we cannot depend upon economies of scale to bring down costs. All the complaining in the world will not change these simple facts of life. As for the proof of my very irritating statements, I can think of four basic feature phones which have been sold at various times since 2009. None of those phones lasted on the market for more than six months. And, the phone which was made specifically for blind people retailed for more than the most expensive iPhone on contract. Because its market was so small, no carrier was willing to subsidise the cost. Oh, the current attempt is a dumbed down Android phone. Its retail cost is the same as the iPhone subsidised on contract, and again, it is not being subsidised by any carrier. That said, it does exist, though I tend to wonder about how much longer it will be available. Again, life is not fair. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Jun 2014, at 20:40, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: > > I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally > misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. > > The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone > without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep > track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so > on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, > it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if > they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? > > I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, but > why should blind people be any different than the general population. This > isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind person > should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not have to > purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind people > do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell phone > without a data plan that sighted people do. > >> On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been >> complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some >> people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for >> everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a >> data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >> >> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so >> forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. >> Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data >> plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then >> crippled. >> >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >>> >>> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple >>> does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >>> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also >>> has he ever heard of wifi? >>> >>> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >>> Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb >>> technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. >>> Din >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Neal Ewers >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm >>> Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>>> >>>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >>>> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >>>> younger. >>>> >>>> Nea
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
For item 10, there are a few aids. Go to settings, general, accessibility, home click speed, and select slow or slowest. Also in accessibility, one finds assistive touch which modifies the screen and command structure for limited dexterity, switch control for either a bluetooth switch, or using the front-facing camera to monitor a person's head movements for switch activation, and guided access which limits what a person can do on the iPhone / iOS device. One will also find several options for low vision users, and options for users suffering from hearing loss. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Jun 2014, at 21:00, Ari Moisio wrote: > > Hi > > Comments about comments about comments: > >> 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for >> that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a >> data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. >> Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the >> Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he >> can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an >> additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that >> accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort >> of access plan. > On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as > a phone without a data plan. > >> 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, >> particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial >> a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, >> physical buttons. >> Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri >> to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what >> I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from >> Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. >> Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad >> allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands >> which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. > > We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to > dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and > after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) > > Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder > to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around > the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good > business, i have to admit. > >> 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared >> to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of >> which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown >> that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY >> keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of >> the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. >> response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to >> compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing >> one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your >> voice to place a call. > > Keyboards are even bulkiert than the iphone itself. If i have to dictate > something i can call with same effort. > >> 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear >> coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently by >> touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. >> As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile >> overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering the >> iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone demonstrates, >> with a properly designed user interface, that blind people can successfully >> operate a touchscreen. > > But people who prefer tactile buttons are still disappointed. > >> 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to charge it at >> least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. >> Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille 'n Speak >> could give us 30 hours of battery life from one charge. However, this is a >> non-issue. During the day, I connect my iPhone to my computer's USB port and >> when I get home I connect it to my computer for a few hours before going to >> bed. Turning off Bluetooth, if you're not using that service, and turning >> your screen brightness down to zero percent will do a lot to save battery >> life. Besides, it's not exactly a major inconvenience to plug the thing into >> a computer or a wall outlet every night. >
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
For your information, Here in Ireland and also in the UK, possibly also in Europe, we can use pay-as-you-go cards in our iPhones. This means, for me, that I can choose between paying five euros and €20 a month for varying amounts of Internet/text capacity. So, for example, if I am using Wi-Fi for most of my connectivity, I can easily make do is paying just five euros a month and still have a lot of talk time texting and Internet access while out and about. Just my thoughts, Sandy Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Jun 2014, at 08:51, David Chittenden wrote: > > The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been > complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some > people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for > everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a > data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. > > Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so forgot > about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. Oh, and > the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data plan, > tended to complain because many of those desired features were then crippled. > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >> >> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple >> does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also >> has he ever heard of wifi? >> >> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >> Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb >> technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. >> Din >> >> >> ----- Original Message - >> From: Neal Ewers >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm >> Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >>> >>> >>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >>> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >>> younger. >>> >>> Neal >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>> Of Teresa Cochran >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If >>> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without >>> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >>> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old >>> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad >>> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? >>> What is Siri? Hmmm. >>> >>> I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who >>> receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A >>> well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they >>> can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention >>> would have been a good idea. >>> >>> having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if >>> addressed to most blind folks out there. >>> >>> Teresa >>> >>> "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham >>> >>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering >>> the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be >>> very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not >>> good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to >>> write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten >>> objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces >>> of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that >>> this is not meant
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
year contract, the basic unit >> can cost $200. The full retail price of the iPhone is approximately $650. >> I received my iPhone 5C, 32 GB version, for free if I agreed to sign a >> two-year contract with Verizon, which I was more than happy to do. >> Admittedly, that particular deal expired on March 31 of this year but I have >> heard that at least one other carrier was offering a similar deal. It is >> likely that consumers who do a bit of searching will be able to acquire an >> iPhone for a fraction of the actual cost if they are willing to sign a >> contract with the carrier. >> 9. First-time users of the iPhone have reported initial frustration with >> this powerful technology. It is not uncommon for these people to feel as if >> they want to throw the phone away during the first month. Answering calls >> and hanging up calls seem to be two particularly difficult problems for >> beginning iPhone users. >> Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to some >> consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a percentage of users >> who experienced frustration with their screen reader during the first few >> weeks or months of use. It is common for people to find a new piece of >> hardware or software frustrating or difficult to use when they're first >> learning how to use the product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen is >> a very different way of interacting with a device and frustration can occur. >> This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as blind consumers >> so this really is a very silly objection. >> 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap >> quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not >> benefit from this technology. >> Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I >> remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with >> difficulties with hand movement. >> I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of >> owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that NFB >> Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things which >> were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible journalism. >> Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a very >> influential organization and many of its members as well as readers of the >> Braille Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are being >> published by a well-known and well-respected organization which claims to >> represent the visually impaired. I am concerned that this article could >> convince many blind people, as well as friends and family members who >> support them, that the iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is >> tragic, as it could potentially be responsible for deterring blind consumers >> from enjoying a device whose functionality is unmatched by any competitor. >> It is my sincere hope that Mr. Chong would examine the validity or lack >> thereof of the objections which he states in his article and that he would >> consider writing a follow-up piece to correct these statements. >> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free >> to visit my LinkedIn profile >> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog >> http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter >> http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer >> Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually >> Impaired >>> On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: >>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >>> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >>> younger. >>> >>> Neal >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>> Of Teresa Cochran >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If >>> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without >>> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >>> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old >>> method of using the
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
>> an iPhone for a fraction of the actual cost if they are willing to sign a >> contract with the carrier. >> 9. First-time users of the iPhone have reported initial frustration with >> this powerful technology. It is not uncommon for these people to feel as >> if they want to throw the phone away during the first month. Answering >> calls and hanging up calls seem to be two particularly difficult problems >> for beginning iPhone users. >> Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to some >> consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a percentage of users >> who experienced frustration with their screen reader during the first few >> weeks or months of use. It is common for people to find a new piece of >> hardware or software frustrating or difficult to use when they're first >> learning how to use the product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen >> is a very different way of interacting with a device and frustration can >> occur. This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as blind >> consumers so this really is a very silly objection. >> 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap >> quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not >> benefit from this technology. >> Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I >> remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with >> difficulties with hand movement. >> I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of >> owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that >> NFB Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things >> which were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible >> journalism. Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a >> very influential organization and many of its members as well as readers >> of the Braille Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are >> being published by a well-known and well-respected organization which >> claims to represent the visually impaired. I am concerned that this >> article could convince many blind people, as well as friends and family >> members who support them, that the iPhone will not be a good product for >> them. This is tragic, as it could potentially be responsible for deterring >> blind consumers from enjoying a device whose functionality is unmatched by >> any competitor. It is my sincere hope that Mr. Chong would examine the >> validity or lack thereof of the objections which he states in his article >> and that he would consider writing a follow-up piece to correct these >> statements. >> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel >> free to visit my LinkedIn profile >> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog >> http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter >> http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer >> Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually >> Impaired >>> On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: >>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. >>> It >>> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >>> younger. >>> >>> Neal >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Teresa Cochran >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. >>> If >>> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad >>> without >>> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >>> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the >>> old >>> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the >>> numpad >>> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a >>> number? >>> What is Siri? Hmmm. >>> >>> I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who >>> receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A >>> well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why >>>
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hi I have looked those options but got no help so far. My issue is not the home button but double tap i cannot make fast enough an usually only lost the focused item and have to find it again with flicking. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 David Chittenden kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:14:57 +1200 From: David Chittenden To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" For item 10, there are a few aids. Go to settings, general, accessibility, home click speed, and select slow or slowest. Also in accessibility, one finds assistive touch which modifies the screen and command structure for limited dexterity, switch control for either a bluetooth switch, or using the front-facing camera to monitor a person's head movements for switch activation, and guided access which limits what a person can do on the iPhone / iOS device. One will also find several options for low vision users, and options for users suffering from hearing loss. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 5 Jun 2014, at 21:00, Ari Moisio wrote: Hi Comments about comments about comments: 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. Keyboards are even bulkiert than the iphone itself. If i have to dictate something i can call with same effort. 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone demonstrates, with a properly designed user interface, that blind people can successfully operate a touchscreen. But people who prefer tactile buttons are still disappointed. 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to charge it at least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille 'n Speak could give us 30 hours of battery life from one ch
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
These are the kinds of things that blind people whether newly blind of not should be taught! Unfortunately, the orientation center for which I used to work thought wood shop was more important. Sorry for the off topic message! You can have an off day, but you can't have a day off! ---The Art of Fielding Sent from my Mac Book Pro richr...@gmail.com On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Ari Moisio wrote: > Hi > > I have looked those options but got no help so far. My issue is not the home > button but double tap i cannot make fast enough an usually only lost the > focused item and have to find it again with flicking. > > > -- > mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS > Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 > hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 > 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 > > > David Chittenden kirjoitti >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:14:57 +1200 >> From: David Chittenden >> To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" >> For item 10, there are a few aids. >> >> Go to settings, general, accessibility, home click speed, and select slow or >> slowest. >> >> Also in accessibility, one finds assistive touch which modifies the screen >> and command structure for limited dexterity, switch control for either a >> bluetooth switch, or using the front-facing camera to monitor a person's >> head movements for switch activation, and guided access which limits what a >> person can do on the iPhone / iOS device. One will also find several options >> for low vision users, and options for users suffering from hearing loss. >> >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 21:00, Ari Moisio wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Comments about comments about comments: >>> >>>> 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for >>>> that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a >>>> data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. >>>> Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the >>>> Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he >>>> can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require >>>> an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device >>>> that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some >>>> sort of access plan. >>> On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works >>> as a phone without a data plan. >>> >>>> 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, >>>> particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can >>>> dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has >>>> real, physical buttons. >>>> Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command >>>> siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly >>>> what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors >>>> from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. >>>> Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad >>>> allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands >>>> which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. >>> >>> We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to >>> dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial >>> and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit >>> old-fashion:-) >>> >>> Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder >>> to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around >>> the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. >>> Good business, i have to admit. >>> >>>> 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as >>>> compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by >>>> Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that >>>> research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using >>>> the touch-screen QWERTY
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Yes, he stil is, and he is the head of the NFB Braille and Technology center. Andy -Original Message- From: don bishop Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 10:31 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also has he ever heard of wifi? Simply shocking from someone who should know better. Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. Din - Original Message - From: Neal Ewers To: viphone@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if addressed to most blind folks out there. Teresa "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: > Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. > -- > Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I am surprised that he wrote such an article. It is very condescending and not thoughtful. Yes people who are new to the phone struggle with it but if they give it a chance they end up doing quite well. On 6/5/14, Rich Ring wrote: > These are the kinds of things that blind people whether newly blind of not > should be taught! Unfortunately, the orientation center for which I used to > work thought wood shop was more important. Sorry for the off topic message! > > You can have an off day, but you can't have a day off! ---The Art of > Fielding > Sent from my Mac Book Pro > richr...@gmail.com > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Ari Moisio wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I have looked those options but got no help so far. My issue is not the >> home button but double tap i cannot make fast enough an usually only >> lost the focused item and have to find it again with flicking. >> >> >> -- >> mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS >> Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 >> hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 >> 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 >> >> >> David Chittenden kirjoitti >>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:14:57 +1200 >>> From: David Chittenden >>> To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" >>> For item 10, there are a few aids. >>> >>> Go to settings, general, accessibility, home click speed, and select slow >>> or slowest. >>> >>> Also in accessibility, one finds assistive touch which modifies the >>> screen and command structure for limited dexterity, switch control for >>> either a bluetooth switch, or using the front-facing camera to monitor a >>> person's head movements for switch activation, and guided access which >>> limits what a person can do on the iPhone / iOS device. One will also >>> find several options for low vision users, and options for users >>> suffering from hearing loss. >>> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 21:00, Ari Moisio wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Comments about comments about comments: >>>> >>>>> 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option >>>>> for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You >>>>> need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the >>>>> Internet. >>>>> Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the >>>>> Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, >>>>> he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't >>>>> require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer >>>>> or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to >>>>> pay for some sort of access plan. >>>> On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones >>>> works as a phone without a data plan. >>>> >>>>> 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, >>>>> particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can >>>>> dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that >>>>> has real, physical buttons. >>>>> Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command >>>>> siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's >>>>> hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen >>>>> protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. >>>>> Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a >>>>> keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard >>>>> commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. >>>> >>>> We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had >>>> to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary >>>> dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit >>>> old-fashion:-) >>>> >>>> Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push >>>> harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's &g
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Well, I can't think of anyone who would buy an iPhone just because they need a phone. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:00 AM To: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Comments about comments about comments: 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. Keyboards are even bulkiert than the iphone itself. If i have to dictate something i can call with same effort. 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone demonstrates, with a properly designed user interface, that blind people can successfully operate a touchscreen. But people who prefer tactile buttons are still disappointed. 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to charge it at least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille 'n Speak could give us 30 hours of battery life from one charge. However, this is a non-issue. During the day, I connect my iPhone to my computer's USB port and when I get home I connect it to my computer for a few hours before going to bed. Turning off Bluetooth, if you're not using that service, and turning your screen brightness down to zero percent will do a lot to save battery life. Besides, it's not exactly a major inconvenience to plug the thing into a computer or a wall outlet every night. It depends if you have a computer or usb connector near you. For example for a long bus or train journey if you like to follow your location on gps there are not always a usb port to charge. GPS is especially power hungry. 6. The iPhone is not small. It is bigger than a lot of flip phones. response: are you serious? Really, are you kidding me? My wife's Motorola Droid Ultra has a wider form factor. The iPhone fits very comfortably in one hand. I mean, we're not talking about a device like an iPad or a Kindle 8.9 HDX. Shou
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hello Kimber, I don't think that age has much to do with a blind person's ability with a touch screen. I think it has much more to do with how good your coordination is. I'm in my early sixties and have no problems using my iPhone and wonder how I ever managed without it! It's my phone, my library, my GPS, my assistant in the kitchen for reading labels, my money identifier and much, much more. Cheers, Anne On 5 Jun 2014, at 13:26, Kimber Gardner wrote: > > It would be interested to hear from someone involved in the teaching > of blind kids (or the newly blind) with regard to whether those > students find touch screen technology easier to learn and use than do > older/middle-age blind people like myself. > -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Currently, I have not had my I Phone switched to my cellular plan. I do have WYFY at my house. My reason for doing it this way is because, I wanted to practice typing, using the key pad and other features without being concerned I would accidently call someone. It has worked out very well. I am at the point now, I am ready to have my little flip phone turned off and my I Phone turned on with cellular service. I have learned, so far, using the I Phone is like using JAWS. You learn the basics...eventually. Then, you begin to learn more advanced functions, etc. It most definitely can be over whelming in the beginning, for some. It takes time and patience. Maybe for some blind/VI people, it is not as brain straining as for others. However, everybody learns at a different pace. That does not mean any one is smarter or dumber. The I Phone is not for everyone. It is the same way in the sited world, too. I have talked with several people who are not blind; and they refuse to buy a smart phone, text, etc. Admittedly so, learning this new device has been challenging...but, I do enjoy the challenge. It has made me stretch my limits...and that is a good thing. As long as new technology is being developed, the blind/VI community will face certain battles and struggles. It is most important, in my opinion, for the community to not splinter, but to stay strong. We can agree to disagree...but, we need to support the basic idea of advancing opportunities for the blind/VI community with new technology as it is developed. C - Original Message - From: "Christopher J Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:40 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, but why should blind people be any different than the general population. This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted people do. On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: > The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have > been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. > Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for > everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a > data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. > > Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so > forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully > function. Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to > remove the data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired > features were then crippled. > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >> >> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple >> does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also >> has he ever heard of wifi? >> >> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >> Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb >> technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. >> Din >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Neal Ewers >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm >> Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >>> >>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. >>> It >>> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >>> younger. >>> >>> Neal >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.c
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Well said. - Original Message - From: "Andy Baracco" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:08 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Well, I can't think of anyone who would buy an iPhone just because they need a phone. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:00 AM To: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Comments about comments about comments: > 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for > that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a > data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. > Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the > Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he > can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require > an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device > that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some > sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. > 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, > particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can > dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has > real, physical buttons. > Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command > siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly > what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors > from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. > Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad > allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands > which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. > 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as > compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by > Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that > research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using > the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per > minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked > at around 23 words per minute. > response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to > compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, > composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can > use your voice to place a call. Keyboards are even bulkiert than the iphone itself. If i have to dictate something i can call with same effort. > 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear > coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently > by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. > As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile > overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering > the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone > demonstrates, with a properly designed user interface, that blind people > can successfully operate a touchscreen. But people who prefer tactile buttons are still disappointed. > 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to charge it at > least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. > Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille 'n Speak > could give us 30 hours of battery life from one charge. However, this is a > non-issue. During the day, I connect my iPhone to my computer's USB port > and when I get home I connect it to my computer for a few hours before > going to bed. Turning off Bluetooth, if you're not using that service, and > turning your screen brightness down to zero percent will do a lot to save > battery life. Besides, it's not exactly a major inconvenience to plug the > thing into a computer or a wall outlet every night. It depends if you have a computer or usb connector near you. For example for a long bus or train journey if you like to follow your location on gps there are not always
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
It also is directly related to how good a person's sense of spatial awareness is. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 6 Jun 2014, at 0:10, Anne Robertson wrote: > > Hello Kimber, > > I don't think that age has much to do with a blind person's ability with a > touch screen. I think it has much more to do with how good your coordination > is. I'm in my early sixties and have no problems using my iPhone and wonder > how I ever managed without it! It's my phone, my library, my GPS, my > assistant in the kitchen for reading labels, my money identifier and much, > much more. > > Cheers, > > Anne > > >> On 5 Jun 2014, at 13:26, Kimber Gardner wrote: >> >> It would be interested to hear from someone involved in the teaching >> of blind kids (or the newly blind) with regard to whether those >> students find touch screen technology easier to learn and use than do >> older/middle-age blind people like myself. >> > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I would suggest looking into assistive touch. Given the situation, it would probably be a good idea to acquire the assistance of an Assistive Technology specialist who specialises in iOS and multiple disabilities. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Jun 2014, at 23:32, Ari Moisio wrote: > > Hi > > I have looked those options but got no help so far. My issue is not the home > button but double tap i cannot make fast enough an usually only lost the > focused item and have to find it again with flicking. > > > -- > mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS > Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 > hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 > 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 > > > David Chittenden kirjoitti >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:14:57 +1200 >> From: David Chittenden >> To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" >> For item 10, there are a few aids. >> >> Go to settings, general, accessibility, home click speed, and select slow or >> slowest. >> >> Also in accessibility, one finds assistive touch which modifies the screen >> and command structure for limited dexterity, switch control for either a >> bluetooth switch, or using the front-facing camera to monitor a person's >> head movements for switch activation, and guided access which limits what a >> person can do on the iPhone / iOS device. One will also find several options >> for low vision users, and options for users suffering from hearing loss. >> >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 21:00, Ari Moisio wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Comments about comments about comments: >>> >>>> 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for >>>> that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a >>>> data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. >>>> Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the >>>> Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he >>>> can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require >>>> an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device >>>> that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some >>>> sort of access plan. >>> On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works >>> as a phone without a data plan. >>> >>>> 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, >>>> particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can >>>> dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has >>>> real, physical buttons. >>>> Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command >>>> siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly >>>> what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors >>>> from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. >>>> Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad >>>> allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands >>>> which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. >>> >>> We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to >>> dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial >>> and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit >>> old-fashion:-) >>> >>> Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder >>> to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around >>> the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. >>> Good business, i have to admit. >>> >>>> 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as >>>> compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by >>>> Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that >>>> research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using >>>> the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Cheryl, Just wanted to tell you, I really love your tag line at the bottom of your e-mail...Lamentations 3:21-23. I have turned to those verses many a time. Thank you for being a light to others. God bless you. C - Original Message - From: Cheryl Homiak To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 1:45 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Age in and of itself means nothing. I am going to be 62 in July. Certainly age mixed with some other factors could be significant. -- Cheryl I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf. I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper thrown in the trash! Then God gave me a new heart and life: His joy for my despairing tears! And now, every day: "This I call to mind, and therefore I have hope: The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness." (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV) On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if addressed to most blind folks out there. Teresa "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.goog
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 Andy Baracco kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:08:57 -0700 From: Andy Baracco To: viphone@googlegroups.com Well, I can't think of anyone who would buy an iPhone just because they need a phone. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:00 AM To: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Comments about comments about comments: 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. Keyboards are even bulkiert than the iphone itself. If i have to dictate something i can call with same effort. 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone demonstrates, with a properly designed user interface, that blind people can successfully operate a touchscreen. But people who prefer tactile buttons are still disappointed. 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to charge it at least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille 'n Speak could give us 30 hours of battery life from one charge. However, this is a non-issue. During the day, I connect my iPhone to my computer's USB port and when I get home I connect it to my computer for a few hours before going to bed. Turning off Bluetooth, if you're not using that service, and turning your screen brightness down to zero percent will do a lot to save battery life. Besides, it's not exactly a major inconvenience to plug the thing into a computer or a wall outlet every night. It depends if you have a computer or usb connector near you. For exampl
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
When I first encountered the iPhone, my fundamental thinking about the manner in which blind people used technology had to undergo a radical change. As a long time computer user, I was not as concerned with where icons and the like were located on the screen. I was more concerned about how to issue commands that would accomplish the tasks I needed to perform. As an instructor of newly blinded adults, I did attempt to learn more about screen geography, however, it still was not the most important issue for me. With Apple's touch screen devices, the location of screen items is vital to an overall understanding of how to use the technology efficiently. When I had a stroke in 2012, I seriously considered ditching my iPhone for a "dumb phone" with buttons. My right hand was, for a time, "stupid". I could hardly read Braille! This certainly points out the advantages of being a 2 handed Braille reader! However, my fine motor coordination recovered, and I was determined to stick with the iPhone! It took me quite a while to learn how the screen was laid out and how to accomplish the things I needed and wanted to do. I'm glad I stuck with the iPhone, it allows me to do so many things that have little to do with making phone calls! I listen to sports,music, audio books, gather my daily dose of news and much more! I'll never be a fast typist on a touch screen, but that, for me, is the only drawback! I don't think the iPhone is for everyone, but it's definitely for me! You can have an off day, but you can't have a day off! ---The Art of Fielding Sent from my Mac Book Pro richr...@gmail.com On Jun 5, 2014, at 7:12 AM, cathy harris wrote: > Currently, I have not had my I Phone switched to my cellular plan. I do have > WYFY at my house. My reason for doing it this way is because, I wanted to > practice typing, using the key pad and other features without being > concerned I would accidently call someone. It has worked out very well. I am > at the point now, I am ready to have my little flip phone turned off and my > I Phone turned on with cellular service. > > I have learned, so far, using the I Phone is like using JAWS. You learn the > basics...eventually. Then, you begin to learn more advanced functions, etc. > It most definitely can be over whelming in the beginning, for some. It takes > time and patience. > > Maybe for some blind/VI people, it is not as brain straining as for others. > However, everybody learns at a different pace. That does not mean any one is > smarter or dumber. > > The I Phone is not for everyone. It is the same way in the sited world, too. > I have talked with several people who are not blind; and they refuse to buy > a smart phone, text, etc. > > Admittedly so, learning this new device has been challenging...but, I do > enjoy the challenge. It has made me stretch my limits...and that is a good > thing. > > As long as new technology is being developed, the blind/VI community will > face certain battles and struggles. It is most important, in my opinion, for > the community to not splinter, but to stay strong. We can agree to > disagree...but, we need to support the basic idea of advancing opportunities > for the blind/VI community with new technology as it is developed. > > C > - Original Message ----- > From: "Christopher J Chaltain" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:40 AM > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > > I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this > totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. > > The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone > without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep > track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts > and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if > they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind > person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart > phone? > > I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, > but why should blind people be any different than the general > population. This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've > never said a blind person should be able to use all of the features of a > smart phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a > valid point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option > and the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted > people do. > > On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
David, I understand your concern; if the article is as poor as you say, it is disturbing. However, there are plenty of positive things out there, word of mouth, etc. So hopefully most people who are interested will find much more positive things to counteract the negatives in this article. By the way, if anyone has the link to the article, post it please so we all can read it and perhaps comment if the magazine allows for comments. Thank you. Paul -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I am a witch, how many people would thank me for a pagan tagline? I do not need/want religion on my iphone list. On Jun 5, 2014, at 8:33 AM, cathy harris wrote: > Cheryl, > > Just wanted to tell you, I really love your tag line at the bottom of your > e-mail...Lamentations 3:21-23. I have turned to those verses many a time. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Just so everyone knows, I have been forwarding comments related to this article to the editor of the Braille Monitor, Gary Wunder. nHis address is gwun...@gmail.com if you wish to communicate with him directly. Fred Olver - Original Message - From: "Paul Ferrara" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 7:57 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone David, I understand your concern; if the article is as poor as you say, it is disturbing. However, there are plenty of positive things out there, word of mouth, etc. So hopefully most people who are interested will find much more positive things to counteract the negatives in this article. By the way, if anyone has the link to the article, post it please so we all can read it and perhaps comment if the magazine allows for comments. Thank you. Paul -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viph
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature phones i know of that are totally accessible. Teresa "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. Feynman On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: > I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally > misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. > > The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone > without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep > track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so > on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, > it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if > they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? > > I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, but > why should blind people be any different than the general population. This > isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind person > should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not have to > purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind people > do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell phone > without a data plan that sighted people do. > > On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been >> complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some >> people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for >> everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a >> data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >> >> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so >> forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. >> Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data >> plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then >> crippled. >> >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >>> >>> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple >>> does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >>> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also >>> has he ever heard of wifi? >>> >>> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >>> Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb >>> technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. >>> Din >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Neal Ewers >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm >>> Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>>> >>>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >>>> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >>>> younger. >>>> >>>> Neal >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>>> Of Teresa Cochran >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>>> >>>> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. >>>> If >>>> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad >>>> without >>>> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >>>> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old >>>> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the >>>> numpad >>>> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? >>>> What is Siri? Hmmm. >>>> >>>> I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who >>>> receive iPhones and haven't the sligh
RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with his phone. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature phones i know of that are totally accessible. Teresa "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. Feynman On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: > I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. > > The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? > > I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, but why should blind people be any different than the general population. This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted people do. > > On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >> >> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then crippled. >> >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >>> >>> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >>> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also has he ever heard of wifi? >>> >>> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >>> Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. >>> Din >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Neal Ewers >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm >>> Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>>> >>>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some >>>> time. It would have been interesting if the article had been >>>> written by someone younger. >>>> >>>> Neal >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >>>> Behalf Of Teresa Cochran >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>>> >>>> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't >>>> get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod >>>> Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? >>>> Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone >>>> as a regul
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Frankly, it isn't that bad of an article. I do think his estimation of an individual's text-messaging speed is pretty low, although I am not nearly as fast as my sighted colleagues at texting; and I think this is an inherent issue with the human interface method that we use. It is also accurate that the iPhone is not meant for everyone and that it is not the most efficient way to make phone calls from the keypad; I've heard a computer show where the sighted host said it was a great device but a less-than-average phone. Steve - Original Message - From: "Fred Olver" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:45 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Just so everyone knows, I have been forwarding comments related to this article to the editor of the Braille Monitor, Gary Wunder. nHis address is gwun...@gmail.com if you wish to communicate with him directly. Fred Olver - Original Message - From: "Paul Ferrara" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 7:57 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone David, I understand your concern; if the article is as poor as you say, it is disturbing. However, there are plenty of positive things out there, word of mouth, etc. So hopefully most people who are interested will find much more positive things to counteract the negatives in this article. By the way, if anyone has the link to the article, post it please so we all can read it and perhaps comment if the magazine allows for comments. Thank you. Paul -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following infor
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
David, I think you should have mentioned, when stating the cost of the iPhone is over 600 dollars was to point out that if one were to purchase a separate unit to do all of the things the iPhone does for the blind, the cost would run well over thousands of dollars, such as the Humanware Trekker Breeze, the SARA Scanner or Pearl Camera from Freedom Scientific, or the Digital Talking Book Player, such as the Humanware Victor Reader or the BookPort/BookSense. Each of these items perform only one function which is a fragment of what the iPhone currently has to offer a blind person, and yet, only the cost of the phone is looked at. All in all, it was a good response to an otherwise pitiful excuse for what was supposed to be an unbiased article. Victor Gouveia Vice-President Training Coordinator VIP Tech Tel: 1-888-640-6661 Fax: 1-888-640-6669 Home: victor.gouv...@rogers.com Work: viptrain...@rogers.com Limiting Disabilities with Limitless Possibilities -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 1:38 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Here is the article which I have just published to my blog. My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone Comment on My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone the June 2014 edition of the Braille Monitor contained an article by Curtis Chong titled Knowing what Is Good about the iPhone and What is Not.I was intrigued by the title. I have to admit that I've become quite the Apple fanboy of late and I would have a very difficult time in coming up with a list of ten objections or things which are "not good" about the iPhone. In fact, I'm having a very difficult time in coming up with a list of one or two things which are "not good" about the iPhone. However, no product is perfect and I can handle objectively written product evaluations. Unfortunately, this article was not one of them. I'm going to reprint each of the objections stated by Mr. Chong in their entirety, with my comments below each objection. What Is Not Good About The iPhone 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone demonstrates, with a properly designed user interface, that blind people can successfully operate a touchscreen. 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to charge it at least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille 'n Speak could give us 30 hour
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
When I started using Smart Phones I decided to get an Android. It was much harder to use and less efficient. However, it made me appreciate the IPhone even more. It also made it easier to use. The article makes it sound like the IPhone is not a good idea. With patience it is a great tool for blind people. It gives us so much better access to mainstream technology at a cheaper price than we are used to. On 6/5/14, Victor Gouveia wrote: > David, > > I think you should have mentioned, when stating the cost of the iPhone is > over 600 dollars was to point out that if one were to purchase a separate > unit to do all of the things the iPhone does for the blind, the cost would > run well over thousands of dollars, such as the Humanware Trekker Breeze, > the SARA Scanner or Pearl Camera from Freedom Scientific, or the Digital > Talking Book Player, such as the Humanware Victor Reader or the > BookPort/BookSense. > > Each of these items perform only one function which is a fragment of what > the iPhone currently has to offer a blind person, and yet, only the cost of > > the phone is looked at. > > All in all, it was a good response to an otherwise pitiful excuse for what > was supposed to be an unbiased article. > > > > Victor Gouveia > Vice-President > Training Coordinator > VIP Tech > Tel: 1-888-640-6661 > Fax: 1-888-640-6669 > Home: victor.gouv...@rogers.com > Work: viptrain...@rogers.com > Limiting Disabilities with Limitless Possibilities > > -Original Message- > From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 1:38 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > Here is the article which I have just published to my blog. > > My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone > Comment on My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone > the June 2014 edition of the Braille Monitor contained an article by > Curtis Chong titled Knowing what Is Good about the iPhone and What is > Not.I was intrigued by the title. I have to admit that I've become quite > the Apple fanboy of late and I would have a very difficult time in > coming up with a list of ten objections or things which are "not good" > about the iPhone. In fact, I'm having a very difficult time in coming up > with a list of one or two things which are "not good" about the iPhone. > However, no product is perfect and I can handle objectively written > product evaluations. Unfortunately, this article was not one of them. > I'm going to reprint each of the objections stated by Mr. Chong in their > entirety, with my comments below each objection. > What Is Not Good About The iPhone > 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option > for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You > need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the > Internet. > Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the > Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, > he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't > require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer > or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to > pay for some sort of access plan. > 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, > particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can > dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that > has real, physical buttons. > Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command > siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's > hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen > protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. > Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad > allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard > commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. > 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as > compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by > Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that > research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using > the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per > minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been > clocked at around 23 words per minute. > response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to > compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, > composin
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
down to zero percent will do a lot to save >>> battery life. Besides, it's not exactly a major inconvenience to plug the >>> thing into a computer or a wall outlet every night. >>> 6. The iPhone is not small. It is bigger than a lot of flip phones. >>> response: are you serious? Really, are you kidding me? My wife's Motorola >>> Droid Ultra has a wider form factor. The iPhone fits very comfortably in >>> one hand. I mean, we're not talking about a device like an iPad or a Kindle >>> 8.9 HDX. >>> 7. For a lot of people the iPhone is a lot more technology than they want. >>> It is not for someone who just wants a phone to make and receive calls. >>> response: true, but once blind people discover that the iPhone can act as >>> their digital book player, restaurant menu reader, Web browser, email >>> client, money identifier, barcode scanner, radio tuner, game player and >>> object recognizer they might just want to use it for more than just making >>> and receiving phone calls. >>> 8. The iPhone is not cheap. Even with a two-year contract, the basic unit >>> can cost $200. The full retail price of the iPhone is approximately $650. >>> I received my iPhone 5C, 32 GB version, for free if I agreed to sign a >>> two-year contract with Verizon, which I was more than happy to do. >>> Admittedly, that particular deal expired on March 31 of this year but I >>> have heard that at least one other carrier was offering a similar deal. It >>> is likely that consumers who do a bit of searching will be able to acquire >>> an iPhone for a fraction of the actual cost if they are willing to sign a >>> contract with the carrier. >>> 9. First-time users of the iPhone have reported initial frustration with >>> this powerful technology. It is not uncommon for these people to feel as if >>> they want to throw the phone away during the first month. Answering calls >>> and hanging up calls seem to be two particularly difficult problems for >>> beginning iPhone users. >>> Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to some >>> consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a percentage of users >>> who experienced frustration with their screen reader during the first few >>> weeks or months of use. It is common for people to find a new piece of >>> hardware or software frustrating or difficult to use when they're first >>> learning how to use the product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen is >>> a very different way of interacting with a device and frustration can >>> occur. This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as blind >>> consumers so this really is a very silly objection. >>> 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap >>> quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not >>> benefit from this technology. >>> Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I >>> remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with >>> difficulties with hand movement. >>> I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of >>> owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that NFB >>> Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things >>> which were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible >>> journalism. Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a >>> very influential organization and many of its members as well as readers of >>> the Braille Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are >>> being published by a well-known and well-respected organization which >>> claims to represent the visually impaired. I am concerned that this article >>> could convince many blind people, as well as friends and family members who >>> support them, that the iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is >>> tragic, as it could potentially be responsible for deterring blind >>> consumers from enjoying a device whose functionality is unmatched by any >>> competitor. It is my sincere hope that Mr. Chong would examine the validity >>> or lack thereof of the objections which he states in his article and that >>> he would consider writing a follow-up piece to correct these statements. >>> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free >>> to visit
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I read the article when I first saw the URL show up on various lists. I didn't save the URL, but it was easy enough to find with Google. BTW, he does include an even longer list of the good things about the iPhone. The URL to the article is at https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm On 6/5/2014 7:57 AM, Paul Ferrara wrote: David, I understand your concern; if the article is as poor as you say, it is disturbing. However, there are plenty of positive things out there, word of mouth, etc. So hopefully most people who are interested will find much more positive things to counteract the negatives in this article. By the way, if anyone has the link to the article, post it please so we all can read it and perhaps comment if the magazine allows for comments. Thank you. Paul -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- -- Christopher (CJ) Chaltain at Gmail -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I'm late to this thread, so sorry if this has been covered. Has this guy never heard of a bluetooth keyboard, Fleksy, iOS8's global third-party keyboard support, a braille display, tactile screen protectors, a two-finger double tap... I understand that no single person can know everything. Still, before pointing out negatives that can easily be overcome, do your research, particularly before putting something like this in such a major publication! No, the iPhone is not right for everyone, of course, but it is right for more people than the article claims. Okay, rant over. Does anyone have this guy's contact information? Comments don't seem to be allowed on the article, so contacting the writer is the next best thing. On Jun 5, 2014, at 7:33 PM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: > I read the article when I first saw the URL show up on various lists. I > didn't save the URL, but it was easy enough to find with Google. BTW, he does > include an even longer list of the good things about the iPhone. > > The URL to the article is at > https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm > > On 6/5/2014 7:57 AM, Paul Ferrara wrote: >> David, I understand your concern; if the article is as poor as you say, it >> is disturbing. However, there are plenty of positive things out there, word >> of mouth, etc. So hopefully most people who are interested will find much >> more positive things to counteract the negatives in this article. By the >> way, if anyone has the link to the article, post it please so we all can >> read it and perhaps comment if the magazine allows for comments. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Paul >> >> -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone >> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:52 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering >> the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would >> be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are >> "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. >> I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my >> responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the >> most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that >> magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the >> NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. >> However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential >> organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will >> take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally >> recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read >> this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things >> which the article claims are "not good" about the device. > > -- > -- > Christopher (CJ) > Chaltain at Gmail > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
This is true and a good point, but it doesn't apply to those blind people who wouldn't be buying those extra devices. On 6/5/2014 12:20 PM, Victor Gouveia wrote: David, I think you should have mentioned, when stating the cost of the iPhone is over 600 dollars was to point out that if one were to purchase a separate unit to do all of the things the iPhone does for the blind, the cost would run well over thousands of dollars, such as the Humanware Trekker Breeze, the SARA Scanner or Pearl Camera from Freedom Scientific, or the Digital Talking Book Player, such as the Humanware Victor Reader or the BookPort/BookSense. Each of these items perform only one function which is a fragment of what the iPhone currently has to offer a blind person, and yet, only the cost of the phone is looked at. All in all, it was a good response to an otherwise pitiful excuse for what was supposed to be an unbiased article. Victor Gouveia Vice-President Training Coordinator VIP Tech Tel: 1-888-640-6661 Fax: 1-888-640-6669 Home: victor.gouv...@rogers.com Work: viptrain...@rogers.com Limiting Disabilities with Limitless Possibilities -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 1:38 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Here is the article which I have just published to my blog. My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone Comment on My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone the June 2014 edition of the Braille Monitor contained an article by Curtis Chong titled Knowing what Is Good about the iPhone and What is Not.I was intrigued by the title. I have to admit that I've become quite the Apple fanboy of late and I would have a very difficult time in coming up with a list of ten objections or things which are "not good" about the iPhone. In fact, I'm having a very difficult time in coming up with a list of one or two things which are "not good" about the iPhone. However, no product is perfect and I can handle objectively written product evaluations. Unfortunately, this article was not one of them. I'm going to reprint each of the objections stated by Mr. Chong in their entirety, with my comments below each objection. What Is Not Good About The iPhone 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone demonstrates, with a properly designed user interface, that blind people can successfully operate a touchscreen. 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still a
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I've heard from several blind people who got an iPhone because they were told it was their only accessible cell phone option or that it was so easy to use for a blind person. I've also seen people on lists like this saying that any blind person who wants a cell phone should just get an iPhone and not bother with the few accessible feature phones that are out there. I think there's definitely a pervasive attitude out there that the iPhone is the way to go if you're blind and want a cell phone, even if you're not going to use the smart phone features. I don't know why Curtis Chong wrote this article, but I suspect it was this pervasive opinion that he was specifically addressing. On 6/5/2014 7:34 AM, Ari Moisio wrote: Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- -- Christopher (CJ) Chaltain at Gmail -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Possibly, and I agree that the iPhone isn't for everyone. Some are better off with Android, some with a Haven. My point is that what he calls downsides are sometimes easily overcome (Fleksy and Braille integration in iOS8) and sometimes totally wrong (answering/hanging up is a two-finger double tap, but he made it sound horribly difficult). On Jun 5, 2014, at 8:44 PM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: > I've heard from several blind people who got an iPhone because they were told > it was their only accessible cell phone option or that it was so easy to use > for a blind person. I've also seen people on lists like this saying that any > blind person who wants a cell phone should just get an iPhone and not bother > with the few accessible feature phones that are out there. I think there's > definitely a pervasive attitude out there that the iPhone is the way to go if > you're blind and want a cell phone, even if you're not going to use the smart > phone features. I don't know why Curtis Chong wrote this article, but I > suspect it was this pervasive opinion that he was specifically addressing. > > On 6/5/2014 7:34 AM, Ari Moisio wrote: >> Hi >> >> Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its >> Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. >> >> > > -- > -- > Christopher (CJ) > Chaltain at Gmail > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I've heard this attitude before, too. however, it just seems to me that the subject could have been approached differently. Maybe an explanation of smart phones in general or describing what the phone does and doesn't do instead of generalizing about what blind people are capable of doing or not doing. Something to that effect. The tone of the article gets to me on a visceral level, but then I'm not good at coping with condescension, or what I perceive as condescension. Teresa Slow down; you'll get there faster. On Jun 5, 2014, at 5:44 PM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: > I've heard from several blind people who got an iPhone because they were told > it was their only accessible cell phone option or that it was so easy to use > for a blind person. I've also seen people on lists like this saying that any > blind person who wants a cell phone should just get an iPhone and not bother > with the few accessible feature phones that are out there. I think there's > definitely a pervasive attitude out there that the iPhone is the way to go if > you're blind and want a cell phone, even if you're not going to use the smart > phone features. I don't know why Curtis Chong wrote this article, but I > suspect it was this pervasive opinion that he was specifically addressing. > > On 6/5/2014 7:34 AM, Ari Moisio wrote: >> Hi >> >> Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its >> Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. >> >> > > -- > -- > Christopher (CJ) > Chaltain at Gmail > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I bought it for all of those reasons and more. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 Andy Baracco kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:08:57 -0700 From: Andy Baracco To: viphone@googlegroups.com Well, I can't think of anyone who would buy an iPhone just because they need a phone. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:00 AM To: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Comments about comments about comments: 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. Keyboards are even bulkiert than the iphone itself. If i have to dictate something i can call with same effort. 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone demonstrates, with a properly designed user interface, that blind people can successfully operate a touchscreen. But people who prefer tactile buttons are still disappointed. 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to charge it at least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille 'n Speak could give us 30 hours of battery life from one charge. However, this is a non-issue. During the day, I connect my iPhone to my computer's USB port and when I get home I connect it to my computer for a few hours before going to bed. Turning off Bluetooth, if you're not using that service, and turning your screen brightness down to zero percen
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I think it's really neat to use the same device that many others use. When folks see me using the iPhone, they have no idea that there is any assistive tech involved unless I choose to tell them. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 Andy Baracco kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:08:57 -0700 From: Andy Baracco To: viphone@googlegroups.com Well, I can't think of anyone who would buy an iPhone just because they need a phone. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:00 AM To: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Comments about comments about comments: 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. Keyboards are even bulkiert than the iphone itself. If i have to dictate something i can call with same effort. 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requiring good hand-ear coordination. People who want real buttons that they can operate silently by touch will be very disappointed in the iPhone. As I stated in a previous response, you can purchase affordable tactile overlays from Speeddots. Besides, in the section in the article covering the iPhone's strengths, it is stated correctly that the iPhone demonstrates, with a properly designed user interface, that blind people can successfully operate a touchscreen. But people who prefer tactile buttons are still disappointed. 5. Battery life for the iPhone is still an issue. You have to charge it at least once a day--a lot more if you use GPS. Response: yes, I long for the days when products like the Braille 'n Speak could give us 30 hours of battery life from one charge. However, this is a non-issue. During the day, I connect my iPhone to my computer's USB port and when I get home I connect it to my computer
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Same here. They hear something talking but they don't realize I'm using the device just like they would. Christopher Hallsworth Student at the Hadley School for the Blind www.hadley.edu On 06/06/2014 02:26, Andy Baracco wrote: I think it's really neat to use the same device that many others use. When folks see me using the iPhone, they have no idea that there is any assistive tech involved unless I choose to tell them. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I love comparing notes about various apps with my sighted friends and recommending them. As has been mentioned upthread, I help out my sighted friends when they get stuck, and they help me, too. The give and take is really something amazing. The similarities in usage seem more transparent in iOS than on a computer somehow. Maybe it's the touch-screen factor. Everyone has to use the touch screen for at least some functions, where's many totally blind people don't bother with the mouse on a computer. I have met sighted people who prefer keyboards to mice, but that is a point outside this discussion. teresa On the other hand, there are different fingers. On Jun 6, 2014, at 12:19 AM, Christopher Hallsworth wrote: > Same here. They hear something talking but they don't realize I'm using the > device just like they would. > > Christopher Hallsworth > Student at the Hadley School for the Blind > www.hadley.edu > > On 06/06/2014 02:26, Andy Baracco wrote: >> I think it's really neat to use the same device that many others use. >> When folks see me using the iPhone, they have no idea that there is any >> assistive tech involved unless I choose to tell them. >> >> Andy >> >> >> -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio >> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> Hi >> >> Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its >> Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. >> >> > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
And he does say he uses an iPhone every day. I don't get the impression he is against them at all, he just wants to convey the fact that they aren't for everybody. I would have worded some of his con comments differently, they may give the impression things are harder than they are, but I didn't think the article was as negative toward the iPhone as some comments on this list implied. I have two coworkers who got iPhones, who want Searie to do everything for them. They, especially one of them, have never mastered the touch screen at all, I don't think they are all that interested in doing so. And if all one is going to do with their iPhone is make calls and send texts, it definitely is a waste of money. Personally, I consider it to be the most life changing piece of electronics I have purchased since my first computer in 1993. Even though I am 59, I do believe that younger people adapt to the touch screen devices more easily than do some older people. Also, the more computer skills one has before getting an iPhone make a big difference, although the ways to use those computer skills will be very different from a regular computer. Both these aforementioned coworkers had very few computer skills before getting their iPhones. Arnold Schmidt - Original Message - From: "Christopher J Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 7:33 PM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I read the article when I first saw the URL show up on various lists. I didn't save the URL, but it was easy enough to find with Google. BTW, he does include an even longer list of the good things about the iPhone. The URL to the article is at https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm On 6/5/2014 7:57 AM, Paul Ferrara wrote: David, I understand your concern; if the article is as poor as you say, it is disturbing. However, there are plenty of positive things out there, word of mouth, etc. So hopefully most people who are interested will find much more positive things to counteract the negatives in this article. By the way, if anyone has the link to the article, post it please so we all can read it and perhaps comment if the magazine allows for comments. Thank you. Paul -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- -- Christopher (CJ) Chaltain at Gmail -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message becau
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
And, some will buy one because everybody else and their sister has one and they want one too. Then when they get it, they have no idea of what to do with it. Their usually somewhat disappointed because of hearing all about the miraculous things you can do with it. How those miracles occur is a total mystery to them and many at first are more inclined to throw it up against a wall somewhere. On the other hand, pretty much everybody sooner or later figures enough about their phone to where they get to a point that they think to themselves well, this just might be ok but still don't see what the to do is all about. Others take to it like a duck to water.The people you see on this list run from one end to the other of the scale. Sooner or later, most all are glad in the end they bought an iPhone. Few say screw it and go back to their Samsung Haven. Regards, Alan I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet. Please click on: HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! - Original Message - From: "Ari Moisio" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 Andy Baracco kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:08:57 -0700 From: Andy Baracco To: viphone@googlegroups.com Well, I can't think of anyone who would buy an iPhone just because they need a phone. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:00 AM To: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Comments about comments about comments: 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. Keyboards are even bulk
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Good thing lists like this exist! If I would have read this article in June/July of 2012 when I was about to have my first IPhone (which I still have) a 3GS, I would have thought twice before getting it! El 05/06/2014 08:08 p.m., Alex Hall escribió: Possibly, and I agree that the iPhone isn't for everyone. Some are better off with Android, some with a Haven. My point is that what he calls downsides are sometimes easily overcome (Fleksy and Braille integration in iOS8) and sometimes totally wrong (answering/hanging up is a two-finger double tap, but he made it sound horribly difficult). On Jun 5, 2014, at 8:44 PM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: I've heard from several blind people who got an iPhone because they were told it was their only accessible cell phone option or that it was so easy to use for a blind person. I've also seen people on lists like this saying that any blind person who wants a cell phone should just get an iPhone and not bother with the few accessible feature phones that are out there. I think there's definitely a pervasive attitude out there that the iPhone is the way to go if you're blind and want a cell phone, even if you're not going to use the smart phone features. I don't know why Curtis Chong wrote this article, but I suspect it was this pervasive opinion that he was specifically addressing. On 6/5/2014 7:34 AM, Ari Moisio wrote: Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- -- Christopher (CJ) Chaltain at Gmail -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Enviado desde mi lap Gerardo J Corripio Flores Psicólogo, Terapéuta Reiki Saludos desde Tampico, Tamaulipas México RompiendoBarreras espacio de psicología/Superación Personal Sábados 10PM México http://radiogeneral.com ¡los esperamos! -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
ce of the iPhone is approximately $650. I received my iPhone 5C, 32 GB version, for free if I agreed to sign a two-year contract with Verizon, which I was more than happy to do. Admittedly, that particular deal expired on March 31 of this year but I have heard that at least one other carrier was offering a similar deal. It is likely that consumers who do a bit of searching will be able to acquire an iPhone for a fraction of the actual cost if they are willing to sign a contract with the carrier. 9. First-time users of the iPhone have reported initial frustration with this powerful technology. It is not uncommon for these people to feel as if they want to throw the phone away during the first month. Answering calls and hanging up calls seem to be two particularly difficult problems for beginning iPhone users. Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to some consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a percentage of users who experienced frustration with their screen reader during the first few weeks or months of use. It is common for people to find a new piece of hardware or software frustrating or difficult to use when they're first learning how to use the product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen is a very different way of interacting with a device and frustration can occur. This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as blind consumers so this really is a very silly objection. 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not benefit from this technology. Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with difficulties with hand movement. I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that NFB Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things which were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible journalism. Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a very influential organization and many of its members as well as readers of the Braille Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are being published by a well-known and well-respected organization which claims to represent the visually impaired. I am concerned that this article could convince many blind people, as well as friends and family members who support them, that the iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is tragic, as it could potentially be responsible for deterring blind consumers from enjoying a device whose functionality is unmatched by any competitor. It is my sincere hope that Mr. Chong would examine the validity or lack thereof of the objections which he states in his article and that he would consider writing a follow-up piece to correct these statements. Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -----Original Message----- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if addressed to most blind folks out there. Teresa "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote:
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Especially for those of us living in third-world or less-developped countries, where having access to blindness technology is very expensive! the IPhone is definitely an excelent integration tool! El 05/06/2014 12:29 p.m., John Diakogeorgiou escribió: When I started using Smart Phones I decided to get an Android. It was much harder to use and less efficient. However, it made me appreciate the IPhone even more. It also made it easier to use. The article makes it sound like the IPhone is not a good idea. With patience it is a great tool for blind people. It gives us so much better access to mainstream technology at a cheaper price than we are used to. On 6/5/14, Victor Gouveia wrote: David, I think you should have mentioned, when stating the cost of the iPhone is over 600 dollars was to point out that if one were to purchase a separate unit to do all of the things the iPhone does for the blind, the cost would run well over thousands of dollars, such as the Humanware Trekker Breeze, the SARA Scanner or Pearl Camera from Freedom Scientific, or the Digital Talking Book Player, such as the Humanware Victor Reader or the BookPort/BookSense. Each of these items perform only one function which is a fragment of what the iPhone currently has to offer a blind person, and yet, only the cost of the phone is looked at. All in all, it was a good response to an otherwise pitiful excuse for what was supposed to be an unbiased article. Victor Gouveia Vice-President Training Coordinator VIP Tech Tel: 1-888-640-6661 Fax: 1-888-640-6669 Home: victor.gouv...@rogers.com Work: viptrain...@rogers.com Limiting Disabilities with Limitless Possibilities -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 1:38 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Here is the article which I have just published to my blog. My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone Comment on My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone the June 2014 edition of the Braille Monitor contained an article by Curtis Chong titled Knowing what Is Good about the iPhone and What is Not.I was intrigued by the title. I have to admit that I've become quite the Apple fanboy of late and I would have a very difficult time in coming up with a list of ten objections or things which are "not good" about the iPhone. In fact, I'm having a very difficult time in coming up with a list of one or two things which are "not good" about the iPhone. However, no product is perfect and I can handle objectively written product evaluations. Unfortunately, this article was not one of them. I'm going to reprint each of the objections stated by Mr. Chong in their entirety, with my comments below each objection. What Is Not Good About The iPhone 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text message. For short text messages, composing one is as quick as dictating the text to Siri, just as you can use your voice to place a call. 4. The iPhone is very much a technology requirin
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
nt to throw the phone away during the first month. Answering calls >> and hanging up calls seem to be two particularly difficult problems for >> beginning iPhone users. >> Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to some >> consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a percentage of users >> who experienced frustration with their screen reader during the first few >> weeks or months of use. It is common for people to find a new piece of >> hardware or software frustrating or difficult to use when they're first >> learning how to use the product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen is >> a very different way of interacting with a device and frustration can occur. >> This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as blind consumers >> so this really is a very silly objection. >> 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap >> quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not >> benefit from this technology. >> Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I >> remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with >> difficulties with hand movement. >> I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of >> owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that NFB >> Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things which >> were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible journalism. >> Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a very >> influential organization and many of its members as well as readers of the >> Braille Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are being >> published by a well-known and well-respected organization which claims to >> represent the visually impaired. I am concerned that this article could >> convince many blind people, as well as friends and family members who >> support them, that the iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is >> tragic, as it could potentially be responsible for deterring blind consumers >> from enjoying a device whose functionality is unmatched by any competitor. >> It is my sincere hope that Mr. Chong would examine the validity or lack >> thereof of the objections which he states in his article and that he would >> consider writing a follow-up piece to correct these statements. >> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free >> to visit my LinkedIn profile >> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog >> http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter >> http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer >> Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually >> Impaired >>> On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: >>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >>> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >>> younger. >>> >>> Neal >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>> Of Teresa Cochran >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If >>> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without >>> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >>> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old >>> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad >>> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? >>> What is Siri? Hmmm. >>> >>> I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who >>> receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A >>> well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they >>> can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention >>> would have been a good idea. >>> >>> having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if >>> addressed to most blind folks out there. >>> >>> Teresa >>> >>&g
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
What is the point in that? Doesn't make a lot of sense to be completely honest. You have to have a data plan in order to have a smart phone. You can use it on Wi-Fi but you can't make phone calls or anything like that which kind of defeats the whole purpose. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 5, 2014, at 3:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: > > The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been > complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some > people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for > everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a > data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. > > Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so forgot > about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. Oh, and > the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data plan, > tended to complain because many of those desired features were then crippled. > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >> >> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple >> does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also >> has he ever heard of wifi? >> >> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >> Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb >> technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. >> Din >> >> >> ----- Original Message - >> From: Neal Ewers >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm >> Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >>> >>> >>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >>> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >>> younger. >>> >>> Neal >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>> Of Teresa Cochran >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If >>> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without >>> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >>> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old >>> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad >>> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? >>> What is Siri? Hmmm. >>> >>> I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who >>> receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A >>> well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they >>> can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention >>> would have been a good idea. >>> >>> having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if >>> addressed to most blind folks out there. >>> >>> Teresa >>> >>> "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham >>> >>> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering >>> the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be >>> very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not >>> good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to >>> write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten >>> objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces >>> of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that >>> this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even >>> a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the >>> NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its mem
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
nes. > response: are you serious? Really, are you kidding me? My wife's Motorola > Droid Ultra has a wider form factor. The iPhone fits very comfortably in one > hand. I mean, we're not talking about a device like an iPad or a Kindle 8.9 > HDX. > 7. For a lot of people the iPhone is a lot more technology than they want. It > is not for someone who just wants a phone to make and receive calls. > response: true, but once blind people discover that the iPhone can act as > their digital book player, restaurant menu reader, Web browser, email client, > money identifier, barcode scanner, radio tuner, game player and object > recognizer they might just want to use it for more than just making and > receiving phone calls. > 8. The iPhone is not cheap. Even with a two-year contract, the basic unit can > cost $200. The full retail price of the iPhone is approximately $650. > I received my iPhone 5C, 32 GB version, for free if I agreed to sign a > two-year contract with Verizon, which I was more than happy to do. > Admittedly, that particular deal expired on March 31 of this year but I have > heard that at least one other carrier was offering a similar deal. It is > likely that consumers who do a bit of searching will be able to acquire an > iPhone for a fraction of the actual cost if they are willing to sign a > contract with the carrier. > 9. First-time users of the iPhone have reported initial frustration with this > powerful technology. It is not uncommon for these people to feel as if they > want to throw the phone away during the first month. Answering calls and > hanging up calls seem to be two particularly difficult problems for beginning > iPhone users. > Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to some > consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a percentage of users > who experienced frustration with their screen reader during the first few > weeks or months of use. It is common for people to find a new piece of > hardware or software frustrating or difficult to use when they're first > learning how to use the product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen is a > very different way of interacting with a device and frustration can occur. > This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as blind consumers > so this really is a very silly objection. > 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap > quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not > benefit from this technology. > Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I > remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with > difficulties with hand movement. > I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of > owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that NFB > Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things which > were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible journalism. > Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a very influential > organization and many of its members as well as readers of the Braille > Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are being published > by a well-known and well-respected organization which claims to represent the > visually impaired. I am concerned that this article could convince many blind > people, as well as friends and family members who support them, that the > iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is tragic, as it could > potentially be responsible for deterring blind consumers from enjoying a > device whose functionality is unmatched by any competitor. It is my sincere > hope that Mr. Chong would examine the validity or lack thereof of the > objections which he states in his article and that he would consider writing > a follow-up piece to correct these statements. > Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free > to visit my LinkedIn profile > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog > http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter > http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer > Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually > Impaired >> On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: >> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >> younger. >> >> Neal >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Teresa Cochran >
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I agree with a lot of things here, as the times continue to pass smart phones and other related technologies will become more and more prevalent, and those without such technologies will be hard-pressed to stay afloat as far as these things are concerned. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:45 AM, Cheryl Homiak wrote: > > Age in and of itself means nothing. I am going to be 62 in July. Certainly > age mixed with some other factors could be significant. > > >> -- >> Cheryl >> I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf. >> I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper thrown in the trash! >> Then God gave me a new heart and life: >> His joy for my despairing tears! >> And now, every day: >> "This I call to mind, and therefore I have hope: >> The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; >> his mercies never come to an end; >> they are new every morning; >> great is your faithfulness." >> (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV) >> > > >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: >> >> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >> younger. >> >> Neal >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Teresa Cochran >> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If >> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without >> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old >> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad >> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? >> What is Siri? Hmmm. >> >> I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who >> receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A >> well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they >> can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention >> would have been a good idea. >> >> having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if >> addressed to most blind folks out there. >> >> Teresa >> >> "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham >> >> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone >> wrote: >> >>> Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering >> the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be >> very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not >> good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to >> write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten >> objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces >> of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that >> this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even >> a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the >> NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers >> of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a >> nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people >> may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to >> things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. >>> -- >>> Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel >> free to visit my LinkedIn profile >> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog >> http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter >> http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer >> Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually >> Impaired >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have >> any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel >> that a member's po
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hi Phone calls and data plan have nothing to do with each other with current cell phones. You need data plan for example to browse the www pages, to handle email, stream content from some server, use certain gps applications or get ppush notifications. If iphone is build so that it has to be connected alll the time it is it's own problem. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 Josh Gregory kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 04:51:23 -0400 From: Josh Gregory To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" What is the point in that? Doesn't make a lot of sense to be completely honest. You have to have a data plan in order to have a smart phone. You can use it on Wi-Fi but you can't make phone calls or anything like that which kind of defeats the whole purpose. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 5, 2014, at 3:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then crippled. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also has he ever heard of wifi? Simply shocking from someone who should know better. Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. Din - Original Message - From: Neal Ewers To: viphone@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this, I think this article is more than a tad condescending, if addressed to most blind folks out there. Teresa "The golden age of science fiction is twelve."--Pete graham On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone wrote: Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will b
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
has a wider form factor. The iPhone fits very comfortably in one hand. I mean, we're not talking about a device like an iPad or a Kindle 8.9 HDX. 7. For a lot of people the iPhone is a lot more technology than they want. It is not for someone who just wants a phone to make and receive calls. response: true, but once blind people discover that the iPhone can act as their digital book player, restaurant menu reader, Web browser, email client, money identifier, barcode scanner, radio tuner, game player and object recognizer they might just want to use it for more than just making and receiving phone calls. 8. The iPhone is not cheap. Even with a two-year contract, the basic unit can cost $200. The full retail price of the iPhone is approximately $650. I received my iPhone 5C, 32 GB version, for free if I agreed to sign a two-year contract with Verizon, which I was more than happy to do. Admittedly, that particular deal expired on March 31 of this year but I have heard that at least one other carrier was offering a similar deal. It is likely that consumers who do a bit of searching will be able to acquire an iPhone for a fraction of the actual cost if they are willing to sign a contract with the carrier. 9. First-time users of the iPhone have reported initial frustration with this powerful technology. It is not uncommon for these people to feel as if they want to throw the phone away during the first month. Answering calls and hanging up calls seem to be two particularly difficult problems for beginning iPhone users. Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to some consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a percentage of users who experienced frustration with their screen reader during the first few weeks or months of use. It is common for people to find a new piece of hardware or software frustrating or difficult to use when they're first learning how to use the product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen is a very different way of interacting with a device and frustration can occur. This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as blind consumers so this really is a very silly objection. 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not benefit from this technology. Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with difficulties with hand movement. I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that NFB Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things which were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible journalism. Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a very influential organization and many of its members as well as readers of the Braille Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are being published by a well-known and well-respected organization which claims to represent the visually impaired. I am concerned that this article could convince many blind people, as well as friends and family members who support them, that the iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is tragic, as it could potentially be responsible for deterring blind consumers from enjoying a device whose functionality is unmatched by any competitor. It is my sincere hope that Mr. Cho ng would examine the validity or lack thereof of the objections which he states in his article and that he would consider writing a follow-up piece to correct these statements. Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phon
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
rowser, email client, money identifier, barcode scanner, radio tuner, game player and object recognizer they might just want to use it for more than just making and receiving phone calls. 8. The iPhone is not cheap. Even with a two-year contract, the basic unit can cost $200. The full retail price of the iPhone is approximately $650. I received my iPhone 5C, 32 GB version, for free if I agreed to sign a two-year contract with Verizon, which I was more than happy to do. Admittedly, that particular deal expired on March 31 of this year but I have heard that at least one other carrier was offering a similar deal. It is likely that consumers who do a bit of searching will be able to acquire an iPhone for a fraction of the actual cost if they are willing to sign a contract with the carrier. 9. First-time users of the iPhone have reported initial frustration with this powerful technology. It is not uncommon for these people to feel as if they want to throw the phone away during the first month. Answering calls and hanging up calls seem to be two particularly difficult problems for beginning iPhone users. Response: does this mean we shouldn't recommend JAWS or NVDA to some consumers who are new to Windows because we can find a percentage of users who experienced frustration with their screen reader during the first few weeks or months of use. It is common for people to find a new piece of hardware or software frustrating or difficult to use when they're first learning how to use the product. Yes, using a product with a touchscreen is a very different way of interacting with a device and frustration can occur. This is true, by the way, with sighted consumers as well as blind consumers so this really is a very silly objection. 10. The iPhone requires a fair amount of dexterity and the ability to tap quickly. People who have motor issues or poor dexterity will likely not benefit from this technology. Response: I don't believe this is correct. I'm no expert on this but I remember reading about how the iPhone can be adapted for consumers with difficulties with hand movement. I acknowledge that Mr. Chong also compiled a list of many advantages of owning an iPhone; I was amused that he listed that one of them was that NFB Newsline was available as an app. However, I found this list of things which were "not good" to be misleading and an example of irresponsible journalism. Mr. Chong is entitled to his opinions. However, the NFB is a very influential organization and many of its members as well as readers of the Braille Monitor take these articles very seriously because they are being published by a well-known and well-respected organization which claims to represent the visually impaired. I am concerned that this article could convince many blind people, as well as friends and family members who support them, that the iPhone will not be a good product for them. This is tragic, as it could potentially be responsible for deterring blind consumers from enjoying a device whose functionality is unmatched by any competitor. It is my sincere hope that Mr. Chong would examine the validity or lack thereof of the objections which he states in his article and that he would consider writing a follow-up piece to correct these statements. Feel free to visit my new Web site http://www.DavidGoldfield.info Feel free to visit my LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-goldfield/12/929/573 Visit my blog http://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com Follow me on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/davidgoldfield David Goldfield, Founder and Peer Coordinator Philadelphia Computer Users' Group for the Blind and Visually Impaired On 6/5/2014 1:13 AM, Neal Ewers wrote: Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -----Original Message----- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the numpad keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? What is Siri? Hmmm. I will say that I have come across folks at my local blind center who receive iPhones and haven't the slightest idea how to operate them. A well-meaning person might have given it as a gift, but they ask me why they can't do things more simply. Maybe for some, a bit more one-on-one attention would have been a good idea. having said this,
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Right I understand that, maybe I kind of miss understood that point. You still need data plans for a lot of things nowadays, and flip phones are becoming more obsolete. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 6, 2014, at 2:40 PM, Ari Moisio wrote: > > Hi > > Phone calls and data plan have nothing to do with each other with current > cell phones. > > > You need data plan for example to browse the www pages, to handle email, > stream content from some server, use certain gps applications or get ppush > notifications. If iphone is build so that it has to be connected alll the > time it is it's own problem. > > > -- > mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS > Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 > hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 > 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 > > > Josh Gregory kirjoitti >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 04:51:23 -0400 >> From: Josh Gregory >> To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" >> What is the point in that? Doesn't make a lot of sense to be completely >> honest. You have to have a data plan in order to have a smart phone. You can >> use it on Wi-Fi but you can't make phone calls or anything like that which >> kind of defeats the whole purpose. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jun 5, 2014, at 3:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >>> >>> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have >>> been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. >>> Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for >>> everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a >>> data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >>> >>> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so >>> forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. >>> Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the >>> data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were >>> then crippled. >>> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >>>> >>>> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple >>>> does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >>>> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also >>>> has he ever heard of wifi? >>>> >>>> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >>>> Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb >>>> technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. >>>> Din >>>> >>>> >>>> - Original Message - >>>> From: Neal Ewers >>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>> Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm >>>> Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It >>>>> would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone >>>>> younger. >>>>> >>>>> Neal >>>>> >>>>> -Original Message- >>>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>>>> Of Teresa Cochran >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM >>>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>>>> >>>>> Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. >>>>> If >>>>> you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad >>>>> without >>>>> a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards >>>>> they're not as fast for anyone as a regular keyboard. How fast was the old >>>>> method of using the teeny keys on a "real" phone keyboard or even the >>>>> numpad >>>>> keys for typing letters? Not very. And why not use Siri to call a number? >>>>> What is Siri? Hmmm. >>>>> >>
RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
And I look at some of the blindness products, DAISY readers for example, and realize that if a person who is blind was having a problem figuring out the device, there is no way a sighted person can help them out, because almost none of them have visual displays. And yet here we are, helping people who see with their iPhones, etc. You would think an organization for the blind would think that a good idea. I know, he wasn't doing a political piece on who can help whom, but it is a point that is too bad he missed. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hallsworth Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:01 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Know what you mean. I have a friend coming over next week who has recently jumped on the Apple bandwagon and acquired an iPhone 5s in Gold. She is sighted and I am more than happy to offer her tips and tricks thanks to the iPhone being an integral device for us. Christopher Hallsworth Student at the Hadley School for the Blind www.hadley.edu On 05/06/2014 20:03, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Yes! that's what I've always meant that the IPhone integrates us > with the sighted! Once, I was talking to a sighted relative about a > certain subject, and it was me who taught him how to do on his IPhone! > What a good feeling to help out others, even though we lack the sense of sight! > > El 05/06/2014 01:56 p.m., Jane escribió: >> It's very true. >> >> I end up being contacted by sighted friends who need help fixing >> stuff on their iDevices. It's kind of scary since I am usually coming >> to this list or Twitter when I get stuck--but I can help others. And >> I don't even own an iPhone. But the devices are similar enough that I >> can talk anyone through fixing it, or at least through turning >> VoiceOver on so I can fix it for them. With some of them, I have them >> set tripple-click home so I can turn VO on and off easily. LOL! >> >> Jane >> >> >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:36 AM, >> Sandratomkins wrote: >> >>> Just a personal note here: I have a friend who has got a 5S and she >>> is getting, constantly, in trouble with it. She works in an office >>> with plenty of other people who have iPhones too! When things go >>> wrong, they try and help out: this usually leads into much more >>> trouble and generally speaking some sort of crash. at This point, >>> she brings it to me. I can always bring the phone back for her. I >>> can always do whatever it is she wanted done in the first place. But >>> here's the rub: my friend and all her co-workers are cited. Their >>> minds, put simply, are not yet attuned to the idea of smart phones >>> apart, that is, from using the camera. Whereas, I, who need all the >>> phones functionality, appear to be something of a Guru to them! So, >>> the access ability of this platform and these devices is so good >>> that I can actually do better than my average cited counterpart. I >>> am sure that this is true of most of us here on this list. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> Sandy >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 09:38, David Chittenden >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I enjoyed reading your response. >>>> >>>> Regarding the touchscreen, hand/ear coordination (haptic / >>>> auditory) coordination is often difficult for blind people to >>>> master. This appears to be because blind people are taught haptic / >>>> haptic response coordination. In other words blind people are >>>> taught to touch and feel for a tactile response. Sighted people, on >>>> the other hand, utilise haptic / visual response. Considering that >>>> touchscreen technology is now more expensive than non-touch screen >>>> with physical buttons, this interface is, and will continue, >>>> replacing the older, haptic rich environment. In fact, for the >>>> sighted, in every category / venue studied thus far, directly >>>> interactive touchscreen technology kiosks and devices reduce errors from 15%-20% to 3%-5%. >>>> So, it becomes incumbent upon us blind people to adapt if we wish >>>> to continue fully participate in modern society. >>>> >>>> As to battery life of the iPhone, if the person were to use the >>>> iPhone the way they used to use the Nokia Phone, Windows CE Phone, >>>> and/or simple and inexpensive dumb phone with limi
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I bought an iPhone since yes my friends had one but not only that; I came from an iPod Touch so wasn't disappointed and the learning curve was narrow shall we say. Christopher Hallsworth Student at the Hadley School for the Blind www.hadley.edu On 06/06/2014 17:58, Alan Paganelli wrote: And, some will buy one because everybody else and their sister has one and they want one too. Then when they get it, they have no idea of what to do with it. Their usually somewhat disappointed because of hearing all about the miraculous things you can do with it. How those miracles occur is a total mystery to them and many at first are more inclined to throw it up against a wall somewhere. On the other hand, pretty much everybody sooner or later figures enough about their phone to where they get to a point that they think to themselves well, this just might be ok but still don't see what the to do is all about. Others take to it like a duck to water.The people you see on this list run from one end to the other of the scale. Sooner or later, most all are glad in the end they bought an iPhone. Few say screw it and go back to their Samsung Haven. Regards, Alan I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet. Please click on: HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! - Original Message - From: "Ari Moisio" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I have a friend who got an iPhone and returned it after less than a week. He mistakenly thought that Siri could do everything. he said that he got it primarily to listen to internet radio. I suggested that he get a Victor Reader stream for internet radio, and keep his old phone for making and receiving calls. Andy -Original Message- From: Arnold Schmidt Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:51 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone And he does say he uses an iPhone every day. I don't get the impression he is against them at all, he just wants to convey the fact that they aren't for everybody. I would have worded some of his con comments differently, they may give the impression things are harder than they are, but I didn't think the article was as negative toward the iPhone as some comments on this list implied. I have two coworkers who got iPhones, who want Searie to do everything for them. They, especially one of them, have never mastered the touch screen at all, I don't think they are all that interested in doing so. And if all one is going to do with their iPhone is make calls and send texts, it definitely is a waste of money. Personally, I consider it to be the most life changing piece of electronics I have purchased since my first computer in 1993. Even though I am 59, I do believe that younger people adapt to the touch screen devices more easily than do some older people. Also, the more computer skills one has before getting an iPhone make a big difference, although the ways to use those computer skills will be very different from a regular computer. Both these aforementioned coworkers had very few computer skills before getting their iPhones. Arnold Schmidt - Original Message - From: "Christopher J Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 7:33 PM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I read the article when I first saw the URL show up on various lists. I didn't save the URL, but it was easy enough to find with Google. BTW, he does include an even longer list of the good things about the iPhone. The URL to the article is at https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm On 6/5/2014 7:57 AM, Paul Ferrara wrote: David, I understand your concern; if the article is as poor as you say, it is disturbing. However, there are plenty of positive things out there, word of mouth, etc. So hopefully most people who are interested will find much more positive things to counteract the negatives in this article. By the way, if anyone has the link to the article, post it please so we all can read it and perhaps comment if the magazine allows for comments. Thank you. Paul -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- -- Christopher (CJ) Chaltain at Gmail -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following info
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of it. Thanks, Ari > On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: > > As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, > for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or > use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some > random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this > kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with > his phone. > > Neal > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Teresa Cochran > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: > the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature > phones i know of that are totally accessible. > > Teresa > > "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. > Feynman > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain > wrote: > >> I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this > totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. >> >> The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone > without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep > track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so > on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, > it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if > they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? >> >> I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, > but why should blind people be any different than the general population. > This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind > person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not > have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind > people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell > phone without a data plan that sighted people do. >> >>> On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >>> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have > been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. > Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for > everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a > data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >>> >>> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so > forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. > Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data > plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then > crippled. >>> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >>>> >>>> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple > does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >>>> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? > Also has he ever heard of wifi? >>>> >>>> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >>>> Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb > technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. >>>> Din >>>> >>>> >>>> - Original Message - >>>> From: Neal Ewers >>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>> Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm >>>> Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some >>>>> time. It would have been interesting if the article had been >>>>> written by someone younger. >>>>> >>>>> Neal >>>>> >>>>> -Original Message- >>>>> From: viphone@
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
What iOS 7 dictation bug? Wasn't aware of anything like that. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 6, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Gmail wrote: > > Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this > could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of > it. > > > Thanks, > Ari > >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: >> >> As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, >> for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or >> use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some >> random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this >> kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with >> his phone. >> >> Neal >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Teresa Cochran >> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: >> the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature >> phones i know of that are totally accessible. >> >> Teresa >> >> "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. >> Feynman >> >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain >> wrote: >> >>> I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this >> totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. >>> >>> The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone >> without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep >> track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so >> on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, >> it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if >> they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? >>> >>> I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, >> but why should blind people be any different than the general population. >> This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind >> person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not >> have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind >> people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell >> phone without a data plan that sighted people do. >>> >>>> On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >>>> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have >> been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. >> Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for >> everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a >> data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >>>> >>>> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so >> forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. >> Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data >> plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then >> crippled. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple >> does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >>>>> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? >> Also has he ever heard of wifi? >>>>> >>>>> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >>>>> Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb >> technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. >>>>> Din >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - Original Message - >>>>> From: Neal Ewers >>>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>>> Date: Wedn
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hi Afaik assistive touch requires one can see the screen. I have looked some simple remote controller to simulate most often used keyboard commands - even though to make such beast with Raspberry but if i carry Raspberry with keypad what will i do with the iphone any more:-) Someone has even build a mobile phone around the Pi but i'm not so desperate yet:-) 0 -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 David Chittenden kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 00:29:01 +1200 From: David Chittenden To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" I would suggest looking into assistive touch. Given the situation, it would probably be a good idea to acquire the assistance of an Assistive Technology specialist who specialises in iOS and multiple disabilities. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 5 Jun 2014, at 23:32, Ari Moisio wrote: Hi I have looked those options but got no help so far. My issue is not the home button but double tap i cannot make fast enough an usually only lost the focused item and have to find it again with flicking. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 David Chittenden kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:14:57 +1200 From: David Chittenden To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" For item 10, there are a few aids. Go to settings, general, accessibility, home click speed, and select slow or slowest. Also in accessibility, one finds assistive touch which modifies the screen and command structure for limited dexterity, switch control for either a bluetooth switch, or using the front-facing camera to monitor a person's head movements for switch activation, and guided access which limits what a person can do on the iPhone / iOS device. One will also find several options for low vision users, and options for users suffering from hearing loss. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 5 Jun 2014, at 21:00, Ari Moisio wrote: Hi Comments about comments about comments: 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by Braille apps, of which there are now two. However, you should know that research has shown that, on average, a blind person entering data using the touch-screen QWERTY keyboard is writing at about three words per minute. By contrast, users of the built-in Braille apps have been clocked at around 23 words per minute. response: you can use any number of Bluetooth keyboards if you want to compose a lengthy email or text messa
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
hello many are forgetting that the article is from one persons perspective if you dont like his article write your own Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 6, 2014, at 9:58 AM, "Alan Paganelli" > wrote: > > And, some will buy one because everybody else and their sister has one and > they want one too. Then when they get it, they have no idea of what to do > with it. Their usually somewhat disappointed because of hearing all about > the miraculous things you can do with it. How those miracles occur is a > total mystery to them and many at first are more inclined to throw it up > against a wall somewhere. On the other hand, pretty much everybody sooner or > later figures enough about their phone to where they get to a point that they > think to themselves well, this just might be ok but still don't see what the > to do is all about. Others take to it like a duck to water.The people you > see on this list run from one end to the other of the scale. Sooner or later, > most all are glad in the end they bought an iPhone. Few say screw it and go > back to their Samsung Haven. > > Regards, > > Alan > > I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous > - everyone > hasn't met me yet. > > Please click on: > > HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ > There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on > the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my > website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! > > - Original Message ----- From: "Ari Moisio" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > > Hi > > Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its > Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. > > > -- > mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS > Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 > hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 > 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 > > > Andy Baracco kirjoitti >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:08:57 -0700 >> From: Andy Baracco >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> >> Well, I can't think of anyone who would buy an iPhone just because they need >> a phone. >> Andy >> >> >> -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio >> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:00 AM >> To: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> Hi >> >> Comments about comments about comments: >> >>> 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for >>> that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a >>> data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. >>> Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the >>> Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he >>> can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require >>> an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device >>> that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some >>> sort of access plan. >> On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works >> as a phone without a data plan. >> >>> 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, >>> particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial >>> a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, >>> physical buttons. >>> Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri >>> to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what >>> I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from >>> Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. >>> Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad >>> allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands >>> which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. >> >> We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to >> dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial >> and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit >> old-fashion:-) >> >> Even with different tacti
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hi I bough it mainly out of curiosity and to evaluate some applications and of course the touch screeen interface. For my preferences the touch screen is too complex, slow and unreliable type of interface. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 Andy Baracco kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 18:25:09 -0700 From: Andy Baracco To: viphone@googlegroups.com I bought it for all of those reasons and more. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I too am an every-overnight charger of my phone. I do have certain things disabled and the screen brightness turned to zero, but still, I blaze through the charge and often use the Mophie Juice Pack towards the end of the day if I'm out and about. Really though, it's not that big a deal. You can only disable so many things before you begin to kill the purpose of the phone and its features. Besides, it's not like it's a huge inconvenience to plug it in to charge. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:24 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of it. Thanks, Ari > On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: > > As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. > I, for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of > music or use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, > just to pick some random numbers, but I can often go for days without > recharging. It's this kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder > how much time he spent with his phone. > > Neal > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Teresa Cochran > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: > the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two > feature phones i know of that are totally accessible. > > Teresa > > "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. > Feynman > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain > > wrote: > >> I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this > totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. >> >> The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature >> phone > without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, > keep track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, > contacts and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any > more, and if they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are > a blind person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? >> >> I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for >> nothing, > but why should blind people be any different than the general population. > This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a > blind person should be able to use all of the features of a smart > phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid > point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option and > the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted people do. >> >>> On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >>> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community >>> have > been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. > Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone > for everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract > without a data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >>> >>> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, >>> so > forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. > Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove > the data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired > features were then crippled. >>> >>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >>>> >>>> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that >>>> apple > does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. >>>> Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? > Also has he ever heard of wifi? >>>> >>>> Simply shocking from someone who should know better. >>>> Yes, he's been around for a very long time a
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Except that Mr. Chong isn't just another person. He is well known and respected in the blindness tech arena and when he talks, people listen. It is different than if you or I say something. Andy -Original Message- From: Robert stigile Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:38 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone hello many are forgetting that the article is from one persons perspective if you dont like his article write your own Sent from my iPhone On Jun 6, 2014, at 9:58 AM, "Alan Paganelli" wrote: And, some will buy one because everybody else and their sister has one and they want one too. Then when they get it, they have no idea of what to do with it. Their usually somewhat disappointed because of hearing all about the miraculous things you can do with it. How those miracles occur is a total mystery to them and many at first are more inclined to throw it up against a wall somewhere. On the other hand, pretty much everybody sooner or later figures enough about their phone to where they get to a point that they think to themselves well, this just might be ok but still don't see what the to do is all about. Others take to it like a duck to water.The people you see on this list run from one end to the other of the scale. Sooner or later, most all are glad in the end they bought an iPhone. Few say screw it and go back to their Samsung Haven. Regards, Alan I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet. Please click on: HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! - Original Message - From: "Ari Moisio" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 Andy Baracco kirjoitti Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:08:57 -0700 From: Andy Baracco To: viphone@googlegroups.com Well, I can't think of anyone who would buy an iPhone just because they need a phone. Andy -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:00 AM To: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi Comments about comments about comments: 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works as a phone without a data plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press the home button and command siri to call any number, such as saying "call 302 555-1212." That's hardly what I'd call inefficient. Also, a consumer can order screen protectors from Speeddots containing tactile keyboard overlays. Finally, the rivo keyboard, while insanely expensive, gives you a keypad allowing for quick telephone entry and it also provides keyboard commands which let you control many other functions of the iPhone. We also had that kind on telephone services at early 70's where one had to dictate the telephone number to the operator. Then we got the rotary dial and after that the tone dial. That's why i consider Siri a bit old-fashion:-) Even with different tactile screen protectors you cannot simply push harder to press the button. Also each application will spread it's buttons around the screen so every application you'll use needs it's own tactile layer. Good business, i have to admit. 3. On the iPhone touch typing for texting and email is very slow as compared to a regular keyboard; this has been somewhat mitigated by
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Hi all, One of the major battery hogs is Wi-Fi. You'd be surprised the amount of days you'll go when Wi-Fi is disabled. Yes, sometimes an inconvenience, but the life of your battery is not determined by time, it is determined by amount of full charge/discharge cycles. In other words, if your iDevice goes through the charge/discharge process daily, and if you change how you use your device to conserve battery life to 2 or 3 days, then you will double or triple your device's overall lifespan. Its been said that in general, using a lithium-ion battery, one has about 500 charge/discharge cycles before battery no longer holds a strong charge. The cool thing about iPhone users is that within a couple of seconds one can turn on and turn off Wi-Fi using Siri. Joseph - Original Message - From: "Cristóbal" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:02 PM Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I too am an every-overnight charger of my phone. I do have certain things disabled and the screen brightness turned to zero, but still, I blaze through the charge and often use the Mophie Juice Pack towards the end of the day if I'm out and about. Really though, it's not that big a deal. You can only disable so many things before you begin to kill the purpose of the phone and its features. Besides, it's not like it's a huge inconvenience to plug it in to charge. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:24 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of it. Thanks, Ari > On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: > > As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. > I, for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of > music or use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, > just to pick some random numbers, but I can often go for days without > recharging. It's this kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder > how much time he spent with his phone. > > Neal > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of Teresa Cochran > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: > the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two > feature phones i know of that are totally accessible. > > Teresa > > "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. > Feynman > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain > > wrote: > >> I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this > totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. >> >> The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature >> phone > without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, > keep track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, > contacts and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any > more, and if they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are > a blind person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? >> >> I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for >> nothing, > but why should blind people be any different than the general population. > This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a > blind person should be able to use all of the features of a smart > phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid > point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option and > the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted people do. >> >>> On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >>> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community >>> have > been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. > Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone > for everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract > without a data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >>> >>> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, >>> so > forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully functi
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
This back and forht could go on forever. Charge life will vary from case to case. There are times when I can go a week without recharging, but if I make heavy use of GPS, and listen to baseball games that are 3 or 4 hours long, i may have to recharge at the end of the day. Andy -Original Message- From: Cristóbal Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:02 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I too am an every-overnight charger of my phone. I do have certain things disabled and the screen brightness turned to zero, but still, I blaze through the charge and often use the Mophie Juice Pack towards the end of the day if I'm out and about. Really though, it's not that big a deal. You can only disable so many things before you begin to kill the purpose of the phone and its features. Besides, it's not like it's a huge inconvenience to plug it in to charge. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:24 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of it. Thanks, Ari On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with his phone. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature phones i know of that are totally accessible. Teresa "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. Feynman On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, but why should blind people be any different than the general population. This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted people do. On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then crippled. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also has he ever heard of wifi? Simply shocking from someone who should know better. Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. Din - Original Message ----- From: Neal Ewers To: viphone@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, J
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I don't listen anymore than to anyone else. I have no idea who he is, and don't care. It is just a person's opinion, no different than anyone on this list. alia On Jun 6, 2014, at 6:25 PM, Andy Baracco wrote: > Except that Mr. Chong isn't just another person. He is well known and > respected in the blindness tech arena and when he talks, people listen. It is > different than if you or I say something. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
You know, not every blind person belongs to a consumer organization. Although I am familiar with Mr. Chong, heck, have socialized with the guy years ago, I'd bet that lots of average blind people have no clue who he is and don't even read the Braille Monitor. If you are already in that organization, then of course you probably read the magazine every issue. Beyond that, well, I'm not sure. I have been a nonmember of the NFB or the ACB for almost 20 years now. I can count on less then one hand how many times in the mainstream media that I have come across either organization's name or doings. Society is larger then the blindness fish bowl. Caitlyn On Jun 6, 2014, at 7:05 PM, alia robinson wrote: > I don't listen anymore than to anyone else. I have no idea who he is, and > don't care. It is just a person's opinion, no different than anyone on this > list. > > alia > On Jun 6, 2014, at 6:25 PM, Andy Baracco wrote: > >> Except that Mr. Chong isn't just another person. He is well known and >> respected in the blindness tech arena and when he talks, people listen. It >> is different than if you or I say something. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. > All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list > can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
don't read it, don't follow any blind organization, don't even know another blind person outside of online groups like these, went to sighted public schools, really have no contact with anyone inside a so-called "blindness organization" at all. Alia On Jun 6, 2014, at 7:16 PM, Caitlyn and Maggie wrote: > You know, not every blind person belongs to a consumer organization. > > Although I am familiar with Mr. Chong, heck, have socialized with the guy > years ago, I'd bet that lots of average blind people have no clue who he is > and don't even read the Braille Monitor. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
There's been a bug discussed on this list where the microphone stays on after you're finished dictation which causes additional battery drain. Like I said, it's been discussed on this list, so I'm sure you can find it in the archives. On 6/6/2014 4:27 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: What iOS 7 dictation bug? Wasn't aware of anything like that. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 6, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Gmail wrote: Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of it. Thanks, Ari On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with his phone. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature phones i know of that are totally accessible. Teresa "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. Feynman On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, but why should blind people be any different than the general population. This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted people do. On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then crippled. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple does not offer a data plan and you need one to get on the internet. Doesn't he know that dataplans are controled by your phone carrier? Also has he ever heard of wifi? Simply shocking from someone who should know better. Yes, he's been around for a very long time and was head of the nfb technology user's group. Don't know if still is or not. Din - Original Message - From: Neal Ewers To: viphone@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:13 pm Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Curtis Chong the author of this article has been around for some time. It would have been interesting if the article had been written by someone younger. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:19 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Um. Where to start? Well, if you don't want a smart phone, don't get one. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, get an iPod Touch, or an iPad without a data plan. What are those, you say? Hmmm. As for the virtual keyboards they're not as fa
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Thanks, I'm pretty new here, didn't think to look in the archives, my apologies. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 6, 2014, at 11:21 PM, Christopher J Chaltain > wrote: > > There's been a bug discussed on this list where the microphone stays on after > you're finished dictation which causes additional battery drain. Like I said, > it's been discussed on this list, so I'm sure you can find it in the archives. > > >> On 6/6/2014 4:27 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: >> What iOS 7 dictation bug? Wasn't aware of anything like that. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jun 6, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Gmail wrote: >>> >>> Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this >>> could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all >>> of it. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ari >>> >>>> On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, >>>> for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or >>>> use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some >>>> random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this >>>> kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with >>>> his phone. >>>> >>>> Neal >>>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>>> Of Teresa Cochran >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM >>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>>> >>>> just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: >>>> the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature >>>> phones i know of that are totally accessible. >>>> >>>> Teresa >>>> >>>> "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. >>>> Feynman >>>> >>>> On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this >>>> totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. >>>>> The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone >>>> without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep >>>> track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and >>>> so >>>> on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, >>>> it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if >>>> they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? >>>>> I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, >>>> but why should blind people be any different than the general population. >>>> This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind >>>> person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not >>>> have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the >>>> blind >>>> people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell >>>> phone without a data plan that sighted people do. >>>>>> On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >>>>>> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have >>>> been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. >>>> Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for >>>> everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a >>>> data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >>>>>> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so >>>> forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. >>>> Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the >>>> data >>>> plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then >>>>
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I agree and completely understand the iPhone isn't for everyone. But it seems more and more are switching to it, some of us reluctantly unless they have been reassured time and time again. Christopher Hallsworth Student at the Hadley School for the Blind www.hadley.edu On 06/06/2014 22:12, Andy Baracco wrote: I have a friend who got an iPhone and returned it after less than a week. He mistakenly thought that Siri could do everything. he said that he got it primarily to listen to internet radio. I suggested that he get a Victor Reader stream for internet radio, and keep his old phone for making and receiving calls. Andy -Original Message- From: Arnold Schmidt Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 12:51 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone And he does say he uses an iPhone every day. I don't get the impression he is against them at all, he just wants to convey the fact that they aren't for everybody. I would have worded some of his con comments differently, they may give the impression things are harder than they are, but I didn't think the article was as negative toward the iPhone as some comments on this list implied. I have two coworkers who got iPhones, who want Searie to do everything for them. They, especially one of them, have never mastered the touch screen at all, I don't think they are all that interested in doing so. And if all one is going to do with their iPhone is make calls and send texts, it definitely is a waste of money. Personally, I consider it to be the most life changing piece of electronics I have purchased since my first computer in 1993. Even though I am 59, I do believe that younger people adapt to the touch screen devices more easily than do some older people. Also, the more computer skills one has before getting an iPhone make a big difference, although the ways to use those computer skills will be very different from a regular computer. Both these aforementioned coworkers had very few computer skills before getting their iPhones. Arnold Schmidt - Original Message - From: "Christopher J Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 7:33 PM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I read the article when I first saw the URL show up on various lists. I didn't save the URL, but it was easy enough to find with Google. BTW, he does include an even longer list of the good things about the iPhone. The URL to the article is at https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm14/bm1406/bm140608.htm On 6/5/2014 7:57 AM, Paul Ferrara wrote: David, I understand your concern; if the article is as poor as you say, it is disturbing. However, there are plenty of positive things out there, word of mouth, etc. So hopefully most people who are interested will find much more positive things to counteract the negatives in this article. By the way, if anyone has the link to the article, post it please so we all can read it and perhaps comment if the magazine allows for comments. Thank you. Paul -Original Message- From: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 11:52 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Has anyone read the June Braille Monitor? there is an article covering the supposed pros and cons of the iPhone. I have to admit that it would be very difficult for me to come up with a list of ten things which are "not good" about the iPhone but this article supposedly did just that. I plan to write a detailed blog post in the coming week with my responses to the ten objections but I'll just say that it's one of the most irresponsible pieces of journalism I've ever read from that magazine. Please, understand that this is not meant as a bash about the NFB vs any other organization or even a criticism of the Monitor. However, the piece infuriated me because the NFB is a highly influential organization and many of its members and readers of the Monitor will take the article seriously just because it comes from a nationally recognized blindness organization. My fear is that many people may read this article and will be convinced to not buy an iPhone due to things which the article claims are "not good" about the device. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails f
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
In iOS 7, Apple set it up so one is able to run Assistive Touch and VoiceOver at the same time. The command structure changes somewhat. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 7 Jun 2014, at 9:34, Ari Moisio wrote: > > Hi > > > Afaik assistive touch requires one can see the screen. > > I have looked some simple remote controller to simulate most often used > keyboard commands - even though to make such beast with Raspberry but if i > carry Raspberry with keypad what will i do with the iphone any more:-) > > Someone has even build a mobile phone around the Pi but i'm not so desperate > yet:-) > > 0 > -- mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS > Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 > hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 > 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 > > > David Chittenden kirjoitti >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 00:29:01 +1200 >> From: David Chittenden >> To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" >> I would suggest looking into assistive touch. Given the situation, it would >> probably be a good idea to acquire the assistance of an Assistive Technology >> specialist who specialises in iOS and multiple disabilities. >> >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 23:32, Ari Moisio wrote: >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> I have looked those options but got no help so far. My issue is not the >>> home button but double tap i cannot make fast enough an usually only >>> lost the focused item and have to find it again with flicking. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS >>> Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 >>> hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 >>> 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 >>> >>> >>> David Chittenden kirjoitti >>>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>>> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:14:57 +1200 >>>> From: David Chittenden >>>> To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" >>>> For item 10, there are a few aids. >>>> >>>> Go to settings, general, accessibility, home click speed, and select slow >>>> or slowest. >>>> >>>> Also in accessibility, one finds assistive touch which modifies the screen >>>> and command structure for limited dexterity, switch control for either a >>>> bluetooth switch, or using the front-facing camera to monitor a person's >>>> head movements for switch activation, and guided access which limits what >>>> a person can do on the iPhone / iOS device. One will also find several >>>> options for low vision users, and options for users suffering from hearing >>>> loss. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 21:00, Ari Moisio wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> Comments about comments about comments: >>>>> >>>>>> 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option >>>>>> for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You >>>>>> need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the >>>>>> Internet. >>>>>> Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the >>>>>> Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, >>>>>> he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't >>>>>> require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer >>>>>> or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to >>>>>> pay for some sort of access plan. >>>>> On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works >>>>> as a phone without a data plan. >>>>> >>>>>> 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, >>>>>> particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can >>>>>> dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
There's a bug in iOS 7 that causes microphone to stay on after dictation has ended. The way to close it is to activate Siri, and then hit the home button to make it stop listening to you. There's a posting over on AppleVis about it. Thanks, Ari > On Jun 6, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Josh Gregory wrote: > > What iOS 7 dictation bug? Wasn't aware of anything like that. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 6, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Gmail wrote: >> >> Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this >> could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of >> it. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Ari >> >>> On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: >>> >>> As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, >>> for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or >>> use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some >>> random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this >>> kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with >>> his phone. >>> >>> Neal >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>> Of Teresa Cochran >>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>> just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: >>> the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature >>> phones i know of that are totally accessible. >>> >>> Teresa >>> >>> "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. >>> Feynman >>> >>> On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this >>> totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. >>>> >>>> The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone >>> without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep >>> track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so >>> on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, >>> it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if >>> they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? >>>> >>>> I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, >>> but why should blind people be any different than the general population. >>> This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind >>> person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not >>> have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind >>> people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell >>> phone without a data plan that sighted people do. >>>> >>>>> On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >>>>> The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have >>> been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. >>> Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for >>> everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a >>> data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so >>> forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. >>> Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data >>> plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then >>> crippled. >>>>> >>>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >>>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:31, don bishop wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The first thing that jumped right out at me was his statement that apple >>> does not offer a data plan and you need one to g
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
This is why I always run my Ipad mini in airplane mode when I don't need wi-fi. On 6/6/2014 3:30 PM, Joseph FreeTech wrote: Hi all, One of the major battery hogs is Wi-Fi. You'd be surprised the amount of days you'll go when Wi-Fi is disabled. Yes, sometimes an inconvenience, but the life of your battery is not determined by time, it is determined by amount of full charge/discharge cycles. In other words, if your iDevice goes through the charge/discharge process daily, and if you change how you use your device to conserve battery life to 2 or 3 days, then you will double or triple your device's overall lifespan. Its been said that in general, using a lithium-ion battery, one has about 500 charge/discharge cycles before battery no longer holds a strong charge. The cool thing about iPhone users is that within a couple of seconds one can turn on and turn off Wi-Fi using Siri. Joseph - Original Message - From: "Cristóbal" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:02 PM Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I too am an every-overnight charger of my phone. I do have certain things disabled and the screen brightness turned to zero, but still, I blaze through the charge and often use the Mophie Juice Pack towards the end of the day if I'm out and about. Really though, it's not that big a deal. You can only disable so many things before you begin to kill the purpose of the phone and its features. Besides, it's not like it's a huge inconvenience to plug it in to charge. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:24 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of it. Thanks, Ari On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with his phone. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature phones i know of that are totally accessible. Teresa "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. Feynman On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, but why should blind people be any different than the general population. This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted people do. On 6/5/2014 2:51 AM, David Chittenden wrote: The point about a data plan is a point some in the blind community have been complaining about ever since the accessible iPhone 3GS was released. Some people do not wish to have a data plan, but still want an iPhone for everything it can do. AT&T would not sell an iPhone on contract without a data plan, and the unsubsidised price of the iPhone is quite high. Personally, I have not heard this complaint for a couple years now, so forgot about it. SmartPhones require data plans in order to fully function. Oh, and the same people, when they could get the carriers to remove the data plan, tended to complain because many of those desired features were then crippled. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile:
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Also, as others have mentioned, there are ways to get around some of these so-called problems, and some of them aren't even really problems in the first place. Yes, the iPhone isn't for everyone, I completely get that, but some of his cons were utterly ridiculous. Thanks, Ari > On Jun 6, 2014, at 6:25 PM, "Andy Baracco" wrote: > > Except that Mr. Chong isn't just another person. He is well known and > respected in the blindness tech arena and when he talks, people listen. It is > different than if you or I say something. > > Andy > > > -Original Message- From: Robert stigile > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:38 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone > > hello > many are forgetting that the article is from one persons perspective > if you dont like his article write your own > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 6, 2014, at 9:58 AM, "Alan Paganelli" >> wrote: >> >> And, some will buy one because everybody else and their sister has one and >> they want one too. Then when they get it, they have no idea of what to do >> with it. Their usually somewhat disappointed because of hearing all about >> the miraculous things you can do with it. How those miracles occur is a >> total mystery to them and many at first are more inclined to throw it up >> against a wall somewhere. On the other hand, pretty much everybody sooner >> or later figures enough about their phone to where they get to a point that >> they think to themselves well, this just might be ok but still don't see >> what the to do is all about. Others take to it like a duck to water.The >> people you see on this list run from one end to the other of the scale. >> Sooner or later, most all are glad in the end they bought an iPhone. Few >> say screw it and go back to their Samsung Haven. >> >> Regards, >> >> Alan >> >> I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being >> ridiculous - everyone >> hasn't met me yet. >> >> Please click on: >> >> HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ >> There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on >> the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my >> website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! >> >> - Original Message - From: "Ari Moisio" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:34 AM >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> >> Hi >> >> Some sighted buy it because it looks so cool, some will buy it because its >> Apple. Many blind will buy because they have heard it is accessible. >> >> >> -- >> mr. M01510 & guide Loadstone-GPS >> Lat: 62.38718, lon: 25.64672 >> hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net B784D020 >> 0C1F 6A76 DC9D DD58 3383 8B5D 0E76 9600 B784 D02 >> >> >> Andy Baracco kirjoitti >>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 05:08:57 -0700 >>> From: Andy Baracco >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> >>> Well, I can't think of anyone who would buy an iPhone just because they >>> need a phone. >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- From: Ari Moisio >>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:00 AM >>> To: 'David Goldfield' via VIPhone >>> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> Comments about comments about comments: >>> >>>> 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for >>>> that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a >>>> data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. >>>> Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the >>>> Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he >>>> can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require >>>> an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device >>>> that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some >>>> sort of access plan. >>> On the other hand you cannot use ipad as a phone. Most non-iphones works >>> as a phone without a data plan. >>> >>>> 2. It is very inefficient to mak
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Joseph, that's exactly right. I had to force myself to learn to tell Siri to turn WI-FI off when it's not needed. The same with Bluetooth. For example, when listening to a downloaded book on the Bard reading app, I may be reading for an hour or more. Turning off WI-FI and Bluetooth makes a big difference. Regards, Alan I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet. Please click on: HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! - Original Message - From: "Joseph FreeTech" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:30 PM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi all, One of the major battery hogs is Wi-Fi. You'd be surprised the amount of days you'll go when Wi-Fi is disabled. Yes, sometimes an inconvenience, but the life of your battery is not determined by time, it is determined by amount of full charge/discharge cycles. In other words, if your iDevice goes through the charge/discharge process daily, and if you change how you use your device to conserve battery life to 2 or 3 days, then you will double or triple your device's overall lifespan. Its been said that in general, using a lithium-ion battery, one has about 500 charge/discharge cycles before battery no longer holds a strong charge. The cool thing about iPhone users is that within a couple of seconds one can turn on and turn off Wi-Fi using Siri. Joseph - Original Message - From: "Cristóbal" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:02 PM Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I too am an every-overnight charger of my phone. I do have certain things disabled and the screen brightness turned to zero, but still, I blaze through the charge and often use the Mophie Juice Pack towards the end of the day if I'm out and about. Really though, it's not that big a deal. You can only disable so many things before you begin to kill the purpose of the phone and its features. Besides, it's not like it's a huge inconvenience to plug it in to charge. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:24 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of it. Thanks, Ari On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with his phone. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature phones i know of that are totally accessible. Teresa "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. Feynman On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text messages, keep track of personal information (like reminders, appointments, contacts and so on). I'm not sure a blind person has this option any more, and if they do, it's getting harder and harder to find. What are a blind person's option if they just want a feature phone and don't want a smart phone? I'm not saying there aren't blind people who want something for nothing, but why should blind people be any different than the general population. This isn't what I and others are asking for though. I've never said a blind person should be able to use all of the features of a smart phone and not have to purchase a data plan. I do think it's a valid point though the blind people do not have the feature phone option and the ability to use a cell phone without a data plan that sighted people do. On 6/5/2014
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
The first time I ever heard of a blindness community was on an email list. We got our own community? When did that happen. I went to public schools as well and I'm 66 years old. Regards, Alan I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet. Please click on: HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! - Original Message - From: "alia robinson" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 4:20 PM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone don't read it, don't follow any blind organization, don't even know another blind person outside of online groups like these, went to sighted public schools, really have no contact with anyone inside a so-called "blindness organization" at all. Alia On Jun 6, 2014, at 7:16 PM, Caitlyn and Maggie wrote: You know, not every blind person belongs to a consumer organization. Although I am familiar with Mr. Chong, heck, have socialized with the guy years ago, I'd bet that lots of average blind people have no clue who he is and don't even read the Braille Monitor. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
My apologies to the group. I meant to send my previous message privately. Regards, Alan I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet. Please click on: HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! - Original Message - From: "alia robinson" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 4:20 PM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone don't read it, don't follow any blind organization, don't even know another blind person outside of online groups like these, went to sighted public schools, really have no contact with anyone inside a so-called "blindness organization" at all. Alia On Jun 6, 2014, at 7:16 PM, Caitlyn and Maggie wrote: You know, not every blind person belongs to a consumer organization. Although I am familiar with Mr. Chong, heck, have socialized with the guy years ago, I'd bet that lots of average blind people have no clue who he is and don't even read the Braille Monitor. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I typically keep wifi and bluetooth on on my phone. Wifi also helps in location tracking accuracy. I don't want to forget to turn wifi on when I have a wifi available to me since I want to keep my cellular data usage down. I also like the convenience of just being able to turn my bluetooth head set on and have it connect to my phone. Bluetooth is a relatively minor impact on your battery usage. I generally charge my iPhone each night, but if I'm using the phone a lot or I'm not going to be near a PC or AC outlet then I'll start shutting things off to stretch my battery a bit. Just because some of us have easy access to a power supply doesn't mean everyone does or that we'll always have such easy access to top off the charge on our iPhone battery. On 6/7/2014 1:45 PM, Alan Paganelli wrote: Joseph, that's exactly right. I had to force myself to learn to tell Siri to turn WI-FI off when it's not needed. The same with Bluetooth. For example, when listening to a downloaded book on the Bard reading app, I may be reading for an hour or more. Turning off WI-FI and Bluetooth makes a big difference. Regards, Alan I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being ridiculous - everyone hasn't met me yet. Please click on: HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! - Original Message - From: "Joseph FreeTech" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:30 PM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Hi all, One of the major battery hogs is Wi-Fi. You'd be surprised the amount of days you'll go when Wi-Fi is disabled. Yes, sometimes an inconvenience, but the life of your battery is not determined by time, it is determined by amount of full charge/discharge cycles. In other words, if your iDevice goes through the charge/discharge process daily, and if you change how you use your device to conserve battery life to 2 or 3 days, then you will double or triple your device's overall lifespan. Its been said that in general, using a lithium-ion battery, one has about 500 charge/discharge cycles before battery no longer holds a strong charge. The cool thing about iPhone users is that within a couple of seconds one can turn on and turn off Wi-Fi using Siri. Joseph - Original Message ----- From: "Cristóbal" To: Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:02 PM Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I too am an every-overnight charger of my phone. I do have certain things disabled and the screen brightness turned to zero, but still, I blaze through the charge and often use the Mophie Juice Pack towards the end of the day if I'm out and about. Really though, it's not that big a deal. You can only disable so many things before you begin to kill the purpose of the phone and its features. Besides, it's not like it's a huge inconvenience to plug it in to charge. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:24 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of it. Thanks, Ari On Jun 5, 2014, at 11:49 AM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: As I recall, he says that one has to recharge their battery every day. I, for one, have never had to do that. True, I don't play 24 hours of music or use the phone or other applications 12 to 15 hours a day, just to pick some random numbers, but I can often go for days without recharging. It's this kind of blanket statement that makes me wonder how much time he spent with his phone. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:28 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone just to answer the question, though it's straying off-topic for this list: the update to the Samsung Haven and the Jitterbug are the only two feature phones i know of that are totally accessible. Teresa "Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough."--Richard P. Feynman On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:40 AM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: I assume David isn't talking about me specifically, but if so, this totally misrepresents the opinion I've stated and stated fairly recently. The fact of the matter is that a sighted person can buy a feature phone without a data plan. They can still make calls, send text me
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Another thing to keep in mind is that how often your phone is trying to contact the cell tower can impact battery usage.when my husband and I were in Minnesota we had 4 or 5 bars most of the time and could go several days without charging. Since we have moved to Wichita however, we have terrible service with AT&T here and only gets one to two bars. When I go to work and don't use my phone at all, I lose 60% of my battery power. I now turn airplane mode on. With airplane mode enabled I only lose about 3 percent. Kellie and guide Loki Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 7, 2014, at 3:32 PM, Christopher J Chaltain wrote: > > I typically keep wifi and bluetooth on on my phone. Wifi also helps in > location tracking accuracy. I don't want to forget to turn wifi on when I > have a wifi available to me since I want to keep my cellular data usage down. > > I also like the convenience of just being able to turn my bluetooth head set > on and have it connect to my phone. Bluetooth is a relatively minor impact on > your battery usage. > > I generally charge my iPhone each night, but if I'm using the phone a lot or > I'm not going to be near a PC or AC outlet then I'll start shutting things > off to stretch my battery a bit. Just because some of us have easy access to > a power supply doesn't mean everyone does or that we'll always have such easy > access to top off the charge on our iPhone battery. > >> On 6/7/2014 1:45 PM, Alan Paganelli wrote: >> Joseph, that's exactly right. I had to force myself to learn to tell Siri >> to turn WI-FI off when it's not needed. The same with Bluetooth. For >> example, when listening to a downloaded book on the Bard reading app, I may >> be reading for an hour or more. Turning off WI-FI and Bluetooth makes a big >> difference. >> >> Regards, >> >> Alan >> >> I told my psychiatrist that everyone hates me. He said I was being >> ridiculous - everyone >> hasn't met me yet. >> >> Please click on: >> >> HTTP://WWW.home.earthlink.net/~alanandsuzanne/ >> There, you'll find free files of my arrangements and performances played on >> the Yamaha Tyros 1 keyboard. The albums in Technics format formerly on my >> website are still available upon request. Thanks for listening! >> >> - Original Message - From: "Joseph FreeTech" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:30 PM >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> One of the major battery hogs is Wi-Fi. You'd be surprised the amount of >> days you'll go when Wi-Fi is disabled. >> Yes, sometimes an inconvenience, but the life of your battery is not >> determined by time, it is determined by amount of full charge/discharge >> cycles. >> In other words, if your iDevice goes through the charge/discharge process >> daily, and if you change how you use your device to conserve battery life to >> 2 or 3 days, then you will double or triple your device's overall lifespan. >> Its been said that in general, using a lithium-ion battery, one has about >> 500 charge/discharge cycles before battery no longer holds a strong charge. >> The cool thing about iPhone users is that within a couple of seconds one can >> turn on and turn off Wi-Fi using Siri. >> >> Joseph >> >> - Original Message - From: "Cristóbal" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:02 PM >> Subject: RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> >> I too am an every-overnight charger of my phone. I do have certain things >> disabled and the screen brightness turned to zero, but still, I blaze >> through the charge and often use the Mophie Juice Pack towards the end of >> the day if I'm out and about. Really though, it's not that big a deal. You >> can only disable so many things before you begin to kill the purpose of the >> phone and its features. >> Besides, it's not like it's a huge inconvenience to plug it in to charge. >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Gmail >> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:24 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone >> >> Really? I usually have to plug my phone in every night. Admittedly, this >> could be the iOS 7 dictation bug going on, but that can't account for all of >> it. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Ari >> >>&g
RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
Are you bragging or complaining? I work in a sighted world and have for 38 plus years, however, I certainly have contact with other blind people on lists, by phone etc, and I believe I gain info learn new things and have friendships in both arenas, I try not to exclude anyone from my life unless they have done something to me to make me no longer trust them. Not moralizing, just saying, that is how I have chosen to live my life, not a member of anything but could be easily. Rose Combs roseco...@q.com -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of alia robinson Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 4:20 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone don't read it, don't follow any blind organization, don't even know another blind person outside of online groups like these, went to sighted public schools, really have no contact with anyone inside a so-called "blindness organization" at all. Alia On Jun 6, 2014, at 7:16 PM, Caitlyn and Maggie wrote: > You know, not every blind person belongs to a consumer organization. > > Although I am familiar with Mr. Chong, heck, have socialized with the guy years ago, I'd bet that lots of average blind people have no clue who he is and don't even read the Braille Monitor. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
I think I can see the iPhone not being for every blind person, those of us on this list, naturally use one or another I-device so we all feel it is relatively easy but an older blind person who may not orient well to touch, may be slow in picking things up ... may not be a good candidate. Some here would say I am not a good candidate at this moment. My husband passed last Friday and since them things I could do either take me a while to figure out or I don't do them. Anyone want to assist me in how to make a contact from a text message? I accidently unsubscribed from this list, took me two days to figure out how to get back, and had it not been for Anna's latest book on the iPhone, I probably would not be here now, however, my phone used to get all the mail from this list and right now I can't even begin to get my head around how to get it back that way. I keep having these blond days lately. It seems to happen when I know we have a lot of batteries and can't find them, then out of the blue I know exactly where they are and by the time I get there I wonder what I am looking for. I do have a couple of messages with info I would like to put into a contact, not mail but text messages and for the life of me I can't copy so can't paste this week, although a month ago I could have. Sorry if I strayed from the topic, any help appreciated, however. Rose Combs roseco...@q.com -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of alia robinson Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 4:06 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I don't listen anymore than to anyone else. I have no idea who he is, and don't care. It is just a person's opinion, no different than anyone on this list. alia On Jun 6, 2014, at 6:25 PM, Andy Baracco wrote: > Except that Mr. Chong isn't just another person. He is well known and respected in the blindness tech arena and when he talks, people listen. It is different than if you or I say something. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone
And how do we adapt to stereo remotes with touchscreens? - Original Message - From: "David Chittenden" To: Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:38 AM Subject: Re: NFB June Braille Monitor/Article on the iPhone I enjoyed reading your response. Regarding the touchscreen, hand/ear coordination (haptic / auditory) coordination is often difficult for blind people to master. This appears to be because blind people are taught haptic / haptic response coordination. In other words blind people are taught to touch and feel for a tactile response. Sighted people, on the other hand, utilise haptic / visual response. Considering that touchscreen technology is now more expensive than non-touch screen with physical buttons, this interface is, and will continue, replacing the older, haptic rich environment. In fact, for the sighted, in every category / venue studied thus far, directly interactive touchscreen technology kiosks and devices reduce errors from 15%-20% to 3%-5%. So, it becomes incumbent upon us blind people to adapt if we wish to continue fully participate in modern society. As to battery life of the iPhone, if the person were to use the iPhone the way they used to use the Nokia Phone, Windows CE Phone, and/or simple and inexpensive dumb phone with limited accessibility, they would find themselves getting similar levels of battery life. When I switched to my iPhone, I noticed a marked decrease in battery life from 3 or 4 days to just over a day. I wondered about it, so switched back to the previous phone for a week. I took note of what I did and how much time I spent on each system. I then used the iPhone in the same way as the older phone, and got 4 days of battery life. Personally, I prefer using my iPhone as my portable computer. It provides me with unparalleled access across technology sectors. As for using the phone keypad, when one trains one's muscle memory to the locations of the numbers on the keypad, dialling can and does become significantly quicker. That said, practice is essential. As for the battery life of certain blindness specific products, I prefer the much increased access and higher technology of the accessible general market hitech solutions. I can do much more for a greatly reduced price. As to the frustration of learning yet another interface, in the case of the iPhone, or Android Phones for that matter, it does take longer because, not only is a person learning the interface, each blind individual is having to learn an entirely new way of interacting that he/she was never trained for when initially learning blindness skills. Therefore, the teachers of blindness skills should start teaching haptic/auditory response in order to enable better / more efficient adaptation for the blind into the modern technological world. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 5 Jun 2014, at 17:38, "'David Goldfield' via VIPhone" wrote: Here is the article which I have just published to my blog. My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone Comment on My comments on the Braille Monitor Article concerning the iPhone the June 2014 edition of the Braille Monitor contained an article by Curtis Chong titled Knowing what Is Good about the iPhone and What is Not.I was intrigued by the title. I have to admit that I've become quite the Apple fanboy of late and I would have a very difficult time in coming up with a list of ten objections or things which are "not good" about the iPhone. In fact, I'm having a very difficult time in coming up with a list of one or two things which are "not good" about the iPhone. However, no product is perfect and I can handle objectively written product evaluations. Unfortunately, this article was not one of them. I'm going to reprint each of the objections stated by Mr. Chong in their entirety, with my comments below each objection. What Is Not Good About The iPhone 1. If you don't want to pay for a data plan, the iPhone has no option for that. A data plan will cost you about twenty dollars a month. You need a data plan for the iPhone to be able to communicate over the Internet. Response: you need to pay for a monthly plan to get anything on the Internet. If a consumer already has an Internet connection in his home, he can buy an iPod Touch or an iPad. These devices run iOS and don't require an additional monthly data plan. The fact is that any computer or device that accesses the Internet is usually going to require you to pay for some sort of access plan. 2. It is very inefficient to make a simple phone call with the iPhone, particularly if you don't have a person in your contacts list. You can dial a phone number that you know much more quickly with a keypad that has real, physical buttons. Response: not at all. You can simply press th
