date:20080924


Although it is shorter, here is a other good discussion 
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/24493
harry

Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect


- Original Message -
From: Harry Veeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect


> > > - Original Message - > From: Horace Heffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:18 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect > > > > > On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > > > has the effect actually been observed with distilled water? > > > > > > harry > > > > > > > There have been many serious experiments done in laboratories. > It > > is > > difficult to imagine *not* using distilled water in such > controlled > > > > experiments, at least in some controls. However, if you want a > > > reference that actually says distilled water was used then here > is > > one: > > http://www.speedylook.com/Mpemba_effect.html > > > > Here is a detailed 1998 discussion of m!
 any relat
I  like this quote from the second link you provided:
<<[The effect] was not reintroduced to the scientific community until 1969, 500 years after Marliani's experiment, and more than two millennia after Aristotle's "Meteorologica I" [1].  The story of its rediscovery by a Tanzanian high school student named Mpemba is written up in the New Scientist [4].  The story provides a dramatic parable cautioning scientists and teachers against dismissing the observations of non-scientists and against making quick judgements about what is impossible.>>
Harry

Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect



- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:18 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect

> 
> On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:
> > has the effect actually been observed with distilled water?
> >
> > harry
> >
> 
> There have been  many serious experiments done in laboratories. It 
> is  
> difficult to imagine *not* using distilled water in such controlled 
> 
> experiments, at least in some controls.   However, if you want a  
> reference that actually says distilled water was used then here is 
> one:
> http://www.speedylook.com/Mpemba_effect.html
> 
> Here is a detailed 1998 discussion of many related issues, but  
> strangely, not the use of distilled water:
> 
> http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/hot_water.html
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Horace Heffner
> http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
> 

It would be interesting to try it with other purified liquids and liquids
which are very viscous.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Palin probably reduced the Bradley effect

Jones Beene wrote:

. . . although Palin was probably a positive choice for McCain, given all
> the demographics, it is turning out not to be anywhere near the brilliant
> strategy that it first seemed. He shoulda gone with Condi.
>
> I have a distinguished older friend who has never voted for a Democrat,
and
> will not this time either, but he dropped his support for McCain BECAUSE
of
> Palin.

Well, no political strategy is perfect. No matter who McCain chose, he was
bound to alienate someone. I think, all in all, it was an effective choice.
I suppose it brought him more support than it lost. (But you can never be
sure of such hypothetical assertions. You can't run history over again!)  He
needed the enthusiastic support of the religious right-wing GOP, and he got
it in spades.

It is easier to second-guess a political campaign than it is to run one.

I think Palin is a lot smarter than she comes across as. She and some other
modern politicians have developed the art of looking like aw-shucks,
awkward, common folk. You wouldn't think to look at them that the Bush
family are members of America's old-money, Ivy League WASP elite -- but they
are. It is funny to me that people like Jeff Fink, who despite Ivy League
elites, are so fond of the Bush and McCain types. Who do you think they are?
Salt of the earth proletariat? Believe me, you don't get any more blue-blood
than these people. By an act of skillful legerdemain, the GOP has spent the
last generation passing off such people as down-home common folk. I liked
the GOP better in the old days when they were honest snobs and they thought
people should respect them *because* they were old money movers and shakers,
not despite the fact. Elite people used to take pride in their class. They
expected to be put in charge of corporations and Wall Street and be elected
Senators because they were Ivy League snoots. Obama is something of a
throwback in that respect. I cannot image anyone in 1960 or 1940 arguing
that the man is too well educated!

It is a strange world, and this political season is the strangest since 1968
-- which was a dreadful year, by the way.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Palin probably reduced the Bradley effect

BTW - although Palin was probably a positive choice for McCain, given all the 
demographics, it is turning out not to be anywhere near the brilliant strategy 
that it first seemed. He shoulda gone with Condi.

I have a distinguished older friend who has never voted for a Democrat, and 
will not this time either, but he dropped his support for McCain BECAUSE of 
Palin. Using his words, not mine, this can be called the "trailer-trash" 
effect. And it will end up diminishing her net positive effect among that small 
segment of the wealthiest voters, but this type of GOP voter will merely 
abstain from voting for President, and not switch sides. 

As Terry mentioned, Biden is turning out to be a terrible choice too, perhaps 
even more so than Palin - but in that case, Obama is less likely to die of 
natural causes in the near term, so the effect of a poor choice of VP is less 
problematic for the Dem-wits. Biden is consistently ranked as the least-wealthy 
member of the Senate, and at least that indicates that he is not milking the 
Lobbies and PACs as are most of the others - nor is he spending half of the 
previous full-year's earnings on a tanning bed, instead of all those kids. 
Others might opine that it reflects more on a general lack of business acumen 
than honesty.

Jones

RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Palin probably reduced the Bradley effect


Meant:

"My guess is that Jeff Fink shares family values and has a similar 
background with Palin. Or if not, the GOP is trying hard to make him 
THINK she does."


Voice input glitch? By the way, the newest version of Naturally 
Speaking voice input is astounding.


Sorry if I am talking too much about public opinion. It is a 
fascinating subject, especially in an election year.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect

2008-09-24 Thread Horace Heffner



On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:

has the effect actually been observed with distilled water?

harry



There have been  many serious experiments done in laboratories. It is  
difficult to imagine *not* using distilled water in such controlled  
experiments, at least in some controls.   However, if you want a  
reference that actually says distilled water was used then here is one:


http://www.speedylook.com/Mpemba_effect.html

Here is a detailed 1998 discussion of many related issues, but  
strangely, not the use of distilled water:


http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/hot_water.html

Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Palin probably reduced the Bradley effect


Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:

Consequently, in an opinion poll they might SAY they'd vote for him, 
but then when they're all alone in the voting booth they'll vote the 
other way.  This can skew the opinion polls to make Obama look more 
popular than he really is.


Exactly right. That's the Bradley effect.



(AFAIK nobody knows how large this effect is.)


Well, it is possible to make crude estimates of it. These estimates 
show that it has probably diminished since the Palin nomination, 
probably for the reasons I described.



This is actually a part of a larger problem with opinion polls, 
which is they're not "secret", and apparently not anonymous.


Some of them are. The answers come out quite differently depending on 
whether they are anonymous or not. You have to compare results from 
different methodologies to determine the extent of the bias, and you 
have to compare results to actual voting (or purchasing, or whatever 
you are polling for) where data from some other source is available. 
That way you resolve which method is more accurate in which situation.


I think most polling place exit polls are anonymous, although they 
usually ask you to check off a box for your sex, age and race. (It is 
anonymous because they do not look at the paper you fill in. They 
aren't supposed to, anyway.) Until this year, polling place exit 
polls were extremely reliable but there is so much advanced voting in 
many different states this year that the accuracy of exit polls will decline.


The choice of the interviewer can also have a profound effect on the 
responses, depending on whether its political content or not. For 
example if you ask a black man to interview black people you are 
likely to get very different set of answers than if have a white 
woman asking the questions. This is true even when the interview was 
conducted over the phone, because most people can tell the race of 
the person they are talking to. This was discovered in the 1940s by 
white and black statisticians (including my mother) in carefully 
controlled tests.


Even in an exit poll, some people are inclined to lie or misrepresent 
their vote, out of spite or confusion or because they forgot who they 
voted for. However, as my mother used to say, "we know they lie and 
we take that into account." They calibrate for it. It is hard to fool 
a public opinion researcher. They were always well aware of the 
Bradley effect, even before it had that name, but that raises the 
question as to whether they should try to fiddle with the statistics 
to eliminate it. Some do, and some don't. That is one of the many 
reasons election polls vary all over the place, by as much as 10%.


My mother also said that in response to polls and census forms, 
people tend to say whatever pops into their head. Here is an example 
of her writing in J. American Association for Public Opinion 
Research. You can see that for some inexplicable reason she sounded a 
lot like me:


http://www.jstor.org/pss/2747532

- Jed

[Vo]:Fw: A new catalyst that directly converts cellulose...

2008-09-24 Thread Colin Quinney

Fwd to to Vo:

"Tungsten carbide as catalyst for cost-effective conversion of cellulose
into industrially useful carbon compounds"

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/005569.html
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/26737/home/press/200837press.html?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

"Alternatives to fossil fuels and natural gas as carbon sources and fuel are
in demand. Biomass could play a more significant part in the future.
Researchers in the USA and China have now developed a new catalyst that
directly converts cellulose, the most common form of biomass, into ethylene
glycol, an important intermediate product for chemical industry. As reported
in the journal Angewandte Chemie, the catalyst is made of tungsten carbide
and nickel on a carbon support.

© Wiley-VCHCurrently, biomass is mainly used in the form of starch, which is
degraded to make sugars and then fermented to make ethanol. It would be
cheaper to use cellulose, which is the main component of plant cell walls
and thus the most plentiful organic compound on Earth. In contrast to starch
from corn and grain, cellulose is not a food, so there would be no
competition between its use as food or as raw material and fuel. At the
moment, cellulose is mainly processed by fermentation. However, splitting
cellulose into its individual sugar components, which can then be fermented,
is a slow and cost-intensive process. The direct conversion of cellulose
into useful organic compounds is thus an attractive alternative.
Initial reactions using various noble-metal catalysts have been developed.
Their disadvantage is that large amounts of expensive metal are needed to
break down the cellulose. On an industrial scale, these processes are thus
not economical. A less costly and more effective catalyst is needed.
A team led by Tao Zhang at the Dalian Institute of Chemical Physics (China)
and Jingguang G. Chen at the University of Delaware (Newark, USA) has now
developed just such a system. The catalyst is made of tungsten carbide
deposited on a carbon support. Small amounts of nickel improve the
efficiency and selectivity of the catalyst system: a synergetic effect
between the nickel and tungsten carbide not only allows 100 % conversion of
cellulose, but also increases the proportion of ethylene glycol in the
resulting mixture of polyalcohols to an amazing 61 %. Ethylene glycol is an
important intermediate in the chemical industry. For example, in the
plastics industry it is needed for the production of polyester fibers and
resins, and in the automobile industry it is used as antifreeze.

(2411 characters)

- Release Date: 9/24/2008 6:29 AM"

[VO]:X PRIZE Foundation

2008-09-24 Thread R C Macaulay

 Vid showing offer by XPrize , $25k for best alternate energy idea.. with an 
MIT backdrop , of course.
http://www.xprize.org/

Richard

RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Palin probably reduced the Bradley effect


Jeff Fink wrote:


I'm a white guy who is certainly not racist.


I did not say you were. I was talking about other people. Why should 
you protest? Ahh . . . Perhaps that means you ARE a closet racist . . .


(In the modern age people who protest they are NOT X are 
automatically suspected of being X, and vice versa. Fill in the 
blank! For example, Obama and I frequently say we are favor of 
nuclear power, so naturally we are both accused of being against it. 
Ditto free market capitalism, immigration control, education reform 
and anything else that other people would prefer we oppose, but -- 
inconveniently for them -- we support.)




 Give me Alan Keyes, J C Watts,
or even Colin Powell, and I will vote for him any day over McCain.


That would make you a conservative, not a closet racist. That is a 
completely different matter. A closet racist would be someone who 
opposes Obama, but who would support a candidate similar to Obama -- 
with the same views and personality -- if the candidate were white. 
And as Stephen A. Lawrence pointed out, the Bradley effect is about 
people who lie to pollsters to be politically correct.




Why are we talking about racist whites when 90% of blacks are voting Obama!


That is another form of racism, called "identity politics." That's 
not closet racism. For one thing, it is overt -- out in the open.




Palin's main appeal to appears to be toward fundamentalist Republican
party regulars who would have voted Republican anyway. However, the
selection was fruitful to the GOP because it motivated these people
to get out and work for the ticket and vote.

Palin may well be the first real person to run for VP or higher in my
lifetime.


You sound motivated! You just demonstrated my point.



She wasn't raised rich, and she didn't have her mind corrupted by
an ivy league school!  We need leaders in this country who are not fans of
Frederich Nietzsche or Karl Marx.


I would point out that President Bush and most important people on 
Wall Street graduated from Ivy League schools. Until this week they 
were not in favor of socialism. Not for the poor, anyway.




The terrorists around the world are rooting for Obama.


I doubt that.



Doesn't that tell you something?


It tells me that you have an over-active imagination.


Obama calls himself a Christian, but Qadhafi of Libya in a recent 
interview obviously considers him to be a Muslim in good standing.


Obama is the only one who can say what Obama's religion is. It makes 
no difference what other people say or think. A religion is all in 
one's mind. It is purely a matter of opinion, and the only person who 
can possibly know Obama's opinion is the man himself.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect


- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:27 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect


> > On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:06 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > > THIS ARTICLE APPEARS IN NEW SCIENTIST MAGAZINE ISSUE: 3 JUNE 2006 > > > > AUTHOR: MARCUS CHOWN > > > > > Jonathan Katz of Washington University in St Louis, it's all to > do > > with solutes. "You have to ask yourself: what does heating do to > > > water that makes it easier to freeze?" he says. "The answer is > that > > it precipitates out solutes." > > > > > The solutes Katz has in mind are calcium and magnesium > bicarbonate, > > which make most drinking water "hard". > > > > > The above simply evades the Mpemba problem altogether. The > original > problem is posed for distilled water. > > Best regards, > > Horace Heffner > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ > 
has the effect actually been observed with distilled water?
harry

[Vo]:bedini "inside radiant energy"

2008-09-24 Thread Esa Ruoho

just in case any of you are looking into that transient spike effect
that bedini utilizes, you might be interested in this new trailer of a
forthcoming dvd.
http://merlib.org/?q=node/5857
"Prompted by Oxford University mathematical physicist Dave Clements
PhD, John shows us on the bench and on the blackboard where and how
Tesla's "radiant energy" is hidden."

ive never heard of there having been a discussion between a
phd/mathphysicist and a john bedini. lets hop efor the best?

-- 
:)
I GoodSearch for Wilhelm Reich Infant Trust Foundation (Rangeley,
Maine) by using http://www.goodsearch.com/ .

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com -
powered by Yahoo!

Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Palin probably reduced the Bradley effect

2008-09-24 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence

Jeff Fink wrote:
> I'm a white guy who is certainly not racist. Give me Alan Keyes, J C Watts,
> or even Colin Powell, and I will vote for him any day over McCain.  Why are
> we talking about racist whites when 90% of blacks are voting Obama!  
>
>   

The  issue isn't racism, per se, rather it's a question of whether some
people dislike Obama because he's black, but *will* *not* *admit* *that*
when they're being polled.  Consequently, in an opinion poll they might
SAY they'd vote for him, but then when they're all alone in the voting
booth they'll vote the other way.  This can skew the opinion polls to
make Obama look more popular than he really is.  (AFAIK nobody knows how
large this effect is.)

This is actually a part of a larger problem with opinion polls, which is
they're not "secret", and apparently not anonymous.   They're done in
face to face -- or voice to voice -- interviews with another human. 
Consequently, the people being polled may not behave the same way in
during polling that they will behave when they're in private, actually
voting.

If you are not ashamed to say you don't like Obama then you are not part
of the problem which is being addressed here, which is people who lie
about their feelings toward him.

Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect

2008-09-24 Thread Horace Heffner



On Sep 24, 2008, at 12:06 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:

THIS ARTICLE APPEARS IN NEW SCIENTIST MAGAZINE ISSUE: 3 JUNE 2006

AUTHOR: MARCUS CHOWN



Jonathan Katz of Washington University in St Louis, it's all to do  
with solutes. "You have to ask yourself: what does heating do to  
water that makes it easier to freeze?" he says. "The answer is that  
it precipitates out solutes."




The solutes Katz has in mind are calcium and magnesium bicarbonate,  
which make most drinking water "hard".





The above simply evades the Mpemba problem altogether.  The original  
problem is posed for distilled water.


Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

RE: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Palin probably reduced the Bradley effect

2008-09-24 Thread Jeff Fink

-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:11 AM
To: vortex-L@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Palin probably reduced the Bradley effect

Jones Beene wrote:

The issue of "closet racism" skewing poll results is called the 
Bradley effect. (Look it up for details.) Anyway, there is evidence 
that the Bradley effect has been suppressed by the selection of Sarah 
Palin as vice president. To make a long story short, people who are 
biased against Obama now have an "excuse" to support McCain instead. 
They can say they are supporting a female candidate, which is as 
open-minded as supporting a black candidate.

I'm a white guy who is certainly not racist. Give me Alan Keyes, J C Watts,
or even Colin Powell, and I will vote for him any day over McCain.  Why are
we talking about racist whites when 90% of blacks are voting Obama!  

Palin's main appeal to appears to be toward fundamentalist Republican 
party regulars who would have voted Republican anyway. However, the 
selection was fruitful to the GOP because it motivated these people 
to get out and work for the ticket and vote.

Palin may well be the first real person to run for VP or higher in my
lifetime.  She wasn't raised rich, and she didn't have her mind corrupted by
an ivy league school!  We need leaders in this country who are not fans of
Frederich Nietzsche or Karl Marx.

I was registering new voters last weekend

The terrorists around the world are rooting for Obama.  Doesn't that tell
you something?  Obama calls himself a Christian, but Qadhafi of Libya in a
recent interview obviously considers him to be a Muslim in good standing.

Jeff

P.S.  You can lay this mortgage scandal at the feet of Chris Dodd and Barney
Frank Who oversaw the decisions to lend money with no down payment to people
who didn't even have jobs.  There ought to be indictments against these two
along with Jamie Gerelick, Franklin Raines, and Daniel Mudd.

Re: [Vo]:The Mpemba Effect

fyi
Public release date: 31-May-2006[

Print Article | E-mail Article

| Close Window ]Contact: Claire Bowles (London)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 44-207-611-1210
Kyre Austin (Boston)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 617-558-4939
New Scientist
Why water freezes faster after heating

"This article is posted on this site to give advance access to other authorised media who may wish to quote extracts as part of fair dealing with this copyrighted material. Full attribution is required, and if publishing online a link to www.newscientist.com is also required. This story posted here is the EXACT text used in New Scientist, therefore advance permission is required before any and every reproduction of each article in full. Please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Please note that all material is copyright of Reed Business Information Limited and we reserve the right to take such action as we consider appropriate to protect such copyright."
THIS ARTICLE APPEARS IN NEW SCIENTIST MAGAZINE ISSUE: 3 JUNE 2006
AUTHOR: MARCUS CHOWN
A common chemical process may explain a bizarre property of water that has been a mystery since the time of Aristotle ¨C how hot water can freeze more quickly than cold.
This strange and counterintuitive effect was first observed by the ancient Greek philosopher and was made famous in recent times by a Tanzanian school student called Erasto Mpemba. He noticed that the sugared milk he was using to make ice cream froze more quickly if it started out hot. But what is behind the so-called "Mpemba effect"?
Jonathan Katz of Washington University in St Louis, it's all to do with solutes. "You have to ask yourself: what does heating do to water that makes it easier to freeze?" he says. "The answer is that it precipitates out solutes."
The solutes Katz has in mind are calcium and magnesium bicarbonate, which make most drinking water "hard". When the water is heated, these precipitate out to form the solid scale that "furs" up the inside of a kettle.
Water that has never been heated still contains these solutes. As it freezes, ice crystals form, and the concentration of solutes in the remaining water becomes ever higher up to 50 times as high as normal. This lowers the freezing point of the water, just like salt sprinkled on a road in winter. "The water therefore has to cool further before it freezes," says Katz.
There is a second, related effect that hampers the freezing of water that has never been heated. The lowering of the freezing point reduces the temperature difference between the liquid and its freezing surroundings. "Since the rate at which heat is lost from the water depends on this temperature difference, water that has not been heated has greater difficulty losing heat," Katz says.
Katz claims that the two effects combined can perfectly explain why water that has been heated freezes more quickly than water that hasn't. And he makes a prediction that experiments should be able to verify: that the Mpemba effect should be more marked the "harder" the water. "This may explain why not everyone sees it," he says. "Some people are using soft water." "Katz's analysis of the Mpemba effect is deeper and more rigorous than anything else on the subject," says Richard Muller of the University of California at Berkeley. "He has come up with a simple yet I believe correct way to look at a complex phenomenon."
Katz, who worked out the details of the Mpemba effect while adjudicating a student exam, is waiting for someone to do the experiment to test his theory. "It's not difficult but it's not trivial either," he says. "I think it would take a couple of months to do it right."

###
IF REPORTING ON THIS STORY, PLEASE MENTION NEW SCIENTIST AS THE SOURCE AND, IF PUBLISHING ONLINE, PLEASE CARRY A HYPERLINK TO: http://www.newscientist.com
UK CONTACT - Claire Bowles, New Scientist Press Office, London:
Tel: +44(0)20 7611 1210 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Tel: +1 617 386 2190 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Vo]:Dilithium pt2 The Immaculate Conception

Hi Richard,

Bismuth has many unusual properties which should be investigated for 
alternative energy potential - but this concept is looking specifically for 
bosons -- and bismuth doesn't suit the bill for that. Bosons are energy 
carriers, and they couple to other bosons in a direct coherent way, since they 
have the same integer spin, which could be important for gainfulness ... or not.

Actually there are only a few light elements which could ever even be remotely 
subject to becoming a condensate (quasi-BEC) and perhaps lithium is the only 
one which is a liquid in a range of temperatures that allows its own surface 
tension to form nanoparticles of a size range which can bind to a Frenkel 
electron, for instance, and develop a very strong self-field. 

Actually buckyballs (C-60) which can also be considered as large unit bosons 
and which can do this [I think that C-60 is how the Frenekel exciton was 
discovered]; but yet this unit is apparently too large to show the special BEC 
spatial property -- which would possibly result in a net gain after further 
processing, and/or nuclear tunneling to show LENR effects. 

Admittedly, this is new territory and there is maybe a chance in a zillion that 
lithium has such an active bosonic unit (either a pair of atoms or more) - but 
- it could be worth a try to find out. The pair of lithium-6 atoms, if that is 
the most useful boson which can be found - might be amenable to a QM tunneling 
reaction to form carbon and give up about 30 MeV per atom in the process - but 
that is an even more remote possibility-- and even worse, if the excess energy 
turned out to be in the form of a neutrino, it would not be usable.

Jones







- Original Message 
From: R C Macaulay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Howdy Jones,
Let's not stop too quick in conceptualizing fizzix-meshugga exploration of 
Lithium... consider the opposite of Lithium in the periodic table.. hmmm. 
can't be done one may say.. but by viewing the atomic weights as describing 
a spiral.. shazzamm.. what would be the  element opposite to Lithium?

We often refer to color as having opposites..they are not, colors are 
described by a prism which is spiral in it's mathematics, and I, personally 
, hear and visualize sound in a spiral configuration (rather than circular 
like a pebble dropping in water creates a circular ripple).
Back to the primoral vortex.. it keeps peeking it's conical head into 
science.. ( pointy heads wouldn't understand)
Waiting with baited anticipation for this subject to "sorta" spill over to 
include Bismuth... she's female . you know..the ancients knew!
Richard

Jones wrote,
> IOW the knowledge base for lithium, both in cosmology and in the lab, is
> weak enough to permit a fizzix-meshugga to explore around the edges -
> snooping for traces of somthing which has been overlooked (or 
> intentionally
> hidden)... and given that almost all QM processess have been overlooked
> (compared to "hot" processes) in the past - that is more or less where I 
> am
> attempting to go with this unfolding hypothesis about a possible pathway 
> to
> clean energy from bosonic lithium.

Re: [Vo]:Dilithium pt2 The Immaculate Conception

2008-09-24 Thread R C Macaulay




Howdy Jones,
Let's not stop too quick in conceptualizing fizzix-meshugga exploration of 
Lithium... consider the opposite of Lithium in the periodic table.. hmmm. 
can't be done one may say.. but by viewing the atomic weights as describing 
a spiral.. shazzamm.. what would be the  element opposite to Lithium?


We often refer to color as having opposites..they are not, colors are 
described by a prism which is spiral in it's mathematics, and I, personally 
, hear and visualize sound in a spiral configuration (rather than circular 
like a pebble dropping in water creates a circular ripple).
Back to the primoral vortex.. it keeps peeking it's conical head into 
science.. ( pointy heads wouldn't understand)
Waiting with baited anticipation for this subject to "sorta" spill over to 
include Bismuth... she's female . you know..the ancients knew!

Richard

Jones wrote,

IOW the knowledge base for lithium, both in cosmology and in the lab, is
weak enough to permit a fizzix-meshugga to explore around the edges -
snooping for traces of somthing which has been overlooked (or 
intentionally

hidden)... and given that almost all QM processess have been overlooked
(compared to "hot" processes) in the past - that is more or less where I 
am
attempting to go with this unfolding hypothesis about a possible pathway 
to

clean energy from bosonic lithium.

Re: [Vo]:Dilithium pt2 The Immaculate Conception

- Original Message 

From: Terry Blanton 

> I'm sure you don't mean pure lithium electrodes for hydrolosis?  :-)


I will redo this post, as it was a first draft and not clear on how a device 
would be constructed, based on the operative hypothesis - but the pure metal 
cannot be used with water, as it is very reactive. And in any event the 
concentration of the light isotope is far too low in natural lithium.

A method which could work using the pure metal - requires the isotope, 6Li, in 
a very high concentration, and in a vacuum chamber (hard vacuum) and surrounded 
by a very strong magnetic field. The low melting point of 358 F or 181C would 
be maintained in a very tight range, so that when irradiated with ultrasound, 
small vapor particles of the lithium isotope would ascend from the liquid - to 
be radiatively cooled - and separated by a technique to be more fully disclosed 
later.

The idea is to produce what are essentially nanoparticles of a size which have 
spintronic properties -- such that they will have a very strong self-field 
(magnetic field), in that size range, and which are then repelled by the 
reactor field through a pinhole - to be processed further. The far more 
numerous vapor particles, which do not form into the correct size for a strong 
self-field when irradiated with ultrasound - those will eventually return to 
the melt. That part of the device is lossy, but only milligrams per minute will 
be required.

More later,

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Dilithium pt2 The Immaculate Conception

2008-09-24 Thread Terry Blanton

I'm sure you don't mean pure lithium electrodes for hydrolosis?  :-)

Terry

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Jones Beene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The atomic mass of "paired lithium-6" atoms is 2x 6.01512 = 12.03024
>
> If the pairing were strong, this unit - which is being called "dilithium"
> could be arguably labeled as a bosonic-pair. There is evidence that it is
> strong. More on that later.
>
> The atomic mass of carbon-12 is exactly 12. Carbon-12 is bosonic.
>
> The small difference of 3% has never been of much interest AFAIK - in any
> previous scheme, or even wild hypothesis to use for nuclear energy for a
> number of reasons.
>
> 1) Lithium has been used as targets, and especially as the fission source
> for tritium, and in all kinds of nuclear experiments for 60 years or more;
> and there is no anecdotal evidence of an "easy" fusion reaction of lithium-6
> to carbon.
>
> [however all of this prior R&D has approached lithium reactions from the
> 'hot' side, and not the 'cold' side]
>
> 2) With the possible exception of deuterium cold fusion in condensed matter,
> there is no good model for even suggesting a direct pathway to fusion to
> Carbon.
>
> [Duh! that LENR model is precisely what has suggested this now]
>
>
> Cosmology:
> It should be noted that lithium is primordiual and was created in the "big
> bang" but carbon was not. Our sun is a second generation star, so primordial
> lithium has been depleted over many billions of years. Being a rare element
> now, lithium has not been given much attention in physics, except as a
> source for tritium via fission. The large amount of carbon we find today on
> earth is assumed to have a stellar origin in a triple alpha process. A
> stellar lithium fusion process is unlikey but that does not necessarily rule
> out a "cold" QM (tunnelling) process having occured in first generation
> planetary sytems such as in cold "gas giants" like Saturn.
>
> IOW the knowledge base for lithium, both in cosmology and in the lab, is
> weak enough to permit a fizzix-meshugga to explore around the edges -
> snooping for traces of somthing which has been overlooked (or intentionally
> hidden)... and given that almost all QM processess have been overlooked
> (compared to "hot" processes) in the past - that is more or less where I am
> attempting to go with this unfolding hypothesis about a possible pathway to
> clean energy from bosonic lithium.
>
> Besides the carbon pathway, there are at least two other possibilities worth
> exploring.
>
> It goes without saying that in some few past LENR experiments - when using
> lithium hydroxide as an electroyte, excess heat and anomalous carbon have
> turned up. Since almost all available lithium that we have access to for
> these experiment is actually strongly depleted in 6Li -- due to our weapons
> programs, the source of this carbon from past experiments is likely NOT
> related to the above hypothesis. However 
>
> If any experimenter has or can obtain access to lithium electrolytes which
> are strongly enriched in 6Li, then the preceding hypothesis could be
> bolstered or else mostly falsified, by a showing of whether or not
> comparatively robust amounts of carbon are turing up in the NAE.
>
> I have been told that there is an efficient low-tech way for someone with
> access to large amounts of natural lithium to do a decent enrichment in the
> light isotope for themself. Given that the ratio of 6:7 is so humongous, as
> isotopes go - this sounds logical but I have not tried it and will not even
> repeat it in public for fear of that being a touchy subject on the Homeland
> Security front.
>
> Besides the carbon pathway, as mentioned, there are at least two other
> possibilities worth exploring and it could be that energy is obtainable from
> the bosonic state via a coupling to the ZPF, which is where this rambling
> will attempt to go, in the next installment.
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Vo]:The Mpemba Effect

2008-09-24 Thread Horace Heffner



On Sep 23, 2008, at 6:12 AM, Esa Ruoho wrote:

 if you
have two identical jars, one with water at 40c and one with water at
200c, if you place them in a fridge at a lower temperature than
either,  the one with the greater amount of temperature actually meets
the fridge temperature quicker than the one closer to the fridge
temperature.



This effect is not new.  It was observed by Aristotle, Bacon, and  
Descartes.  It is now called by some "The Mpemba Effect".  This was  
discussed here in 2001.  Here's my take on it:


http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/Mpemba.pdf

I assume the "200c" temperature above is a typo.

Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

[Vo]:OFF TOPIC Palin probably reduced the Bradley effect


Jones Beene wrote:


Steven

You may be underestimating the level of "closet racism" in the USA.


This is getting way off topic, but it has to do with polling and 
public opinion surveys, a subject that has long interested me. (My 
mother was an expert in this field.)


The issue of "closet racism" skewing poll results is called the 
Bradley effect. (Look it up for details.) Anyway, there is evidence 
that the Bradley effect has been suppressed by the selection of Sarah 
Palin as vice president. To make a long story short, people who are 
biased against Obama now have an "excuse" to support McCain instead. 
They can say they are supporting a female candidate, which is as 
open-minded as supporting a black candidate.


A study conducted in the last couple weeks, which I cannot find, 
indicates that the shift toward McCain triggered by the selection of 
Palin was mainly among closet racists plus diehard supporters of 
Hillary Clinton. My guess is that most people in the latter group -- 
the so-called PUMAs -- will come around before election day, but you 
never know. "Closet racism" in this case was measured by asking 
people for adjectives describing black people. Such things are 
difficult to measure some of these are crude metrics at best.


Palin's main appeal to appears to be toward fundamentalist Republican 
party regulars who would have voted Republican anyway. However, the 
selection was fruitful to the GOP because it motivated these people 
to get out and work for the ticket and vote.


I was registering new voters last weekend. A white guy in his 30s who 
I would describe as being in the redneck demographic told me with 
considerable enthusiasm: "I am already registered, and I am votin' for Palin!"


There is a great deal of concealed racism or "denied racism" being 
expressed as class distrust or envy. Plus there is real class envy 
because Obama is a Harvard man after all, and that rubs a lot of 
people the wrong way. (Bush is a Yale man and very much a member of 
the U.S. elite, but he takes pains to cover up his upper-class 
background.) By "denied" I mean the person himself is unaware that he 
is expressing racist views. Some respondents say they "just can't 
trust" Obama, for reasons they supposedly cannot put their finger on. 
The weirdest expression of denied racism was a woman in Atlanta who 
recently said: "I'm not prejudiced, but I could never vote for a black man."


Needless to say, you cannot always count on demographics. W. Ralph 
Eubanks, a librarian at the Library of Congress, recently wrote an 
article in the Washington Post describing the atmosphere at his alma 
mater Ole Miss. The upcoming Friday debate will be held there. He 
described an interesting encounter:


". . . discussions of class in the South can obscure honest talk 
about race. 'It's easier to talk about class, the money you have or 
don't have, than to talk about race and social segregation,' Patrick 
Woodyard, a white senior from Hot Springs, Ark., told me.


On the other hand, Curtis Wilkie, a journalism professor at Ole Miss, 
believes that nowadays, 'many of the divisions in Mississippi are 
more partisan than racial.' His comment conjured an image from one of 
my visits to Mississippi last spring: A white man in a muddy pickup 
passed me somewhat aggressively along U.S. Highway 49. But he had an 
"Obama for President" sticker in his window, right below the gun rack."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/19/AR2008091902807.html

- Jed

[Vo]:Dilithium pt2 The Immaculate Conception

The atomic mass of "paired lithium-6" atoms is 2x 6.01512 = 12.03024

If the pairing were strong, this unit - which is being called "dilithium" could 
be arguably labeled as a bosonic-pair. There is evidence that it is strong. 
More on that later.

The atomic mass of carbon-12 is exactly 12. Carbon-12 is bosonic.

The small difference of 3% has never been of much interest AFAIK - in any 
previous scheme, or even wild hypothesis to use for nuclear energy for a number 
of reasons.

1) Lithium has been used as targets, and especially as the fission source for 
tritium, and in all kinds of nuclear experiments for 60 years or more; and 
there is no anecdotal evidence of an "easy" fusion reaction of lithium-6 to 
carbon.

[however all of this prior R&D has approached lithium reactions from the 'hot' 
side, and not the 'cold' side]

2) With the possible exception of deuterium cold fusion in condensed matter, 
there is no good model for even suggesting a direct pathway to fusion to Carbon.

[Duh! that LENR model is precisely what has suggested this now]


Cosmology:
It should be noted that lithium is primordiual and was created in the "big 
bang" but carbon was not. Our sun is a second generation star, so primordial 
lithium has been depleted over many billions of years. Being a rare element 
now, lithium has not been given much attention in physics, except as a source 
for tritium via fission. The large amount of carbon we find today on earth is 
assumed to have a stellar origin in a triple alpha process. A stellar lithium 
fusion process is unlikey but that does not necessarily rule out a "cold" QM 
(tunnelling) process having occured in first generation planetary sytems such 
as in cold "gas giants" like Saturn.  

IOW the knowledge base for lithium, both in cosmology and in the lab, is weak 
enough to permit a fizzix-meshugga to explore around the edges - snooping for 
traces of somthing which has been overlooked (or intentionally hidden)... and 
given that almost all QM processess have been overlooked (compared to "hot" 
processes) in the past - that is more or less where I am attempting to go with 
this unfolding hypothesis about a possible pathway to clean energy from bosonic 
lithium. 

Besides the carbon pathway, there are at least two other possibilities worth 
exploring.

It goes without saying that in some few past LENR experiments - when using 
lithium hydroxide as an electroyte, excess heat and anomalous carbon have 
turned up. Since almost all available lithium that we have access to for these 
experiment is actually strongly depleted in 6Li -- due to our weapons programs, 
the source of this carbon from past experiments is likely NOT related to the 
above hypothesis. However 

If any experimenter has or can obtain access to lithium electrolytes which are 
strongly enriched in 6Li, then the preceding hypothesis could be bolstered or 
else mostly falsified, by a showing of whether or not comparatively robust 
amounts of carbon are turing up in the NAE.

I have been told that there is an efficient low-tech way for someone with 
access to large amounts of natural lithium to do a decent enrichment in the 
light isotope for themself. Given that the ratio of 6:7 is so humongous, as 
isotopes go - this sounds logical but I have not tried it and will not even 
repeat it in public for fear of that being a touchy subject on the Homeland 
Security front.

Besides the carbon pathway, as mentioned, there are at least two other 
possibilities worth exploring and it could be that energy is obtainable from 
the bosonic state via a coupling to the ZPF, which is where this rambling will 
attempt to go, in the next installment.

Jones

Re: [VO]: OT - Sub-prime submarines

2008-09-24 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence

OrionWorks wrote:
> >From Stephen Lawrence:
>
>   
>> Do you by any chance have online sources for that?  If so I'd love it if
>> you'd post 'em.
>> 
>
> There are no specific on-line sources for this kind of stuff.
>
> There's a old saying: "Don't shoot the messenger."
>   

I'm not aiming to shoot the messenger!  I just wondered if you had read
it someplace or some places which you could recall.  If so I'd like to
go read it there too.

Whether it's from http://GlobalSecurity.org , or
http://GlobalResearch.ca , or http://www.flight93crash.com , or Dr.
Judy, or whereever, I'm happy to go look at it, and I'm certainly not
going to shoot you for posting it.

If it's from rumors spread by some means other than the Internet, tho,
it's not something one can share, eh?  (But *are* there any such rumors
nowadays?)

> Actually, in this case it would be more apt to say "...the messenger
> of the messenger, of the messenger..."
>
> It should already be obvious to many in this group that this was
> New-Agey stuff. Each individual must constantly evaluate this kind of
> information using their own inner wisdom - so right there I would
> speculate that more than half the vortex-l readership is likely to
> discard this kind of data as either "evil trickery" or at best,
> harmless unsubstantiated speculation. I posted this particular OT
> subject because I thought some who participate in vortex might find
> aspects of the perception interesting and occasionally thought
> provoking - with all the appropriate disclaimers in place. ;-)
>   
> Regards
> Steven Vincent Johnson
> www.OrionWorks.com
> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol