Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Eric Walker]

Le Aug 8, 2012 à 5:58 PM, Chemical Engineer  a écrit :

> The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions in 
> the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion 
> collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy.

Unfortunately, i don't think 1 TeV collision is easy to come by.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:NIWeek 2012 video: Anomalous Heat Effects

[Ruby]

The computer graphic illustration of the lattice vibrations is just the 
kind of thing needed to communicate to the general audience the reality 
and safety of the anomalous heat effect.


I thought the graphics were the best part.


On 8/8/12 5:41 PM, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

On 2012-08-09 02:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

Hello group,
This is from National Instruments' official Youtube Channel.


After watching it in its entirety (I admit I didn't before posting the 
link here) I can definitely say it's not a very informative video for 
long-time LENR followers and it understandably mostly focuses on how 
NI products are great for such applications.


Yet, I think for most of the audience it must have been quite a news 
that there still are researchers "studying cold fusion" and that the 
field is apparently being taken seriously by big names and NI.



--
Ruby Carat

r...@coldfusionnow.org 
United States 1-707-616-4894
Skype ruby-carat
www.coldfusionnow.org 

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Axil Axil]

Bob Rohner makes his money from getting investment dollars as did Papp. Bob
knows when the product is commercialized and competition comes in to the
market, the free lunch is over.

See

http://www.rohnerengineering.com/

John Rohner wants other people to manufacture the engine in all its various
applications.

John is a R&D guy and not interested in factory work.
 In my option, politics and evangelism in general is a waste of time for an
engineer. What really counts is that your system works well as fast as
possible. There is no time to waste.

Cheers:Axil




On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 1:09 AM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

> **
> I am asking what the missing piece is?  Why don't I see a Papp engine
> being sold anywhere?  It's been 30 years, right?  When something is said to
> be real and is taking more than 30 years to commercialize; I don't know
> about you but that raises a few questions in my mind.  The same criticism
> goes for Randal Mills and others.  What is the holdup?
>
> Rossi is not taking more than 30 years so he has a bit more credibility.
>
> Can I buy a fully functional engine from Rohner right now?  An engine that
> I can hook to my 2KW generator so that I can have free power?
>
> And yes, I did see your post but a kit is a far cry from a fully
> functional engine.  Why doesn't he sell a fully functional engine?  I am
> prepared to buy one now if he has one for sale even it it is not certified.
>
> Jojo
>
> PS.  As for badmouthing Bambi, it is never a waste of time to correct the
> criminal actions of a usurper-in-chief.   "All it takes for evil to triumph
> is for good men to do nothing."   Judging from the tone of your criticism
> of my badmouthing of bambi, that you think I am out of place and unfair to
> do so?
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Axil Axil 
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 12:00 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
>
> John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin
> Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller.
>
> Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine
> will run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts.
>
> What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency
> generator, and his spark controller.
>
> The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly
> of plastic.
>
> Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the
> engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since
> the patent is laped long ago.
>
> You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too
> occupied in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)?
>
> See
>
> http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg
>
>
>
>
> Cheers:Axil
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:
>
>> **
>> Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine.  In
>> other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs
>> to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's.  How
>> much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my
>> generator.
>>
>> If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done.  I'm pretty sure
>> it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it.  I don't believe it is
>> just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe
>> that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance
>> to fund this technology if it is real.  There has got to be still some
>> fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine.  What is that
>> issue?
>>
>> I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who
>> can answer.
>>
>> Jojo
>>
>>
>>
>>  - Original Message -
>> *From:* Axil Axil 
>> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
>>  *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
>>
>>  You response confuses me.
>>
>> Jouni said:
>>
>> *Better, are you serious?*
>>
>> Axil thinks:
>>
>> You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True?
>>
>> Journi said:
>>
>> *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star
>> Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at
>> Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six
>> days and into nearby stars in one generation.*
>>
>> Axil states:
>>
>> IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is
>> better?
>>
>> Journi said:
>>
>> *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier
>> has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not
>> think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to
>> take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a
>> little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any
>> material needs.*
>>
>> Axil states:
>>
>> I take th

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Jojo Jaro]

I am asking what the missing piece is?  Why don't I see a Papp engine being 
sold anywhere?  It's been 30 years, right?  When something is said to be real 
and is taking more than 30 years to commercialize; I don't know about you but 
that raises a few questions in my mind.  The same criticism goes for Randal 
Mills and others.  What is the holdup?

Rossi is not taking more than 30 years so he has a bit more credibility.

Can I buy a fully functional engine from Rohner right now?  An engine that I 
can hook to my 2KW generator so that I can have free power?

And yes, I did see your post but a kit is a far cry from a fully functional 
engine.  Why doesn't he sell a fully functional engine?  I am prepared to buy 
one now if he has one for sale even it it is not certified.

Jojo

PS.  As for badmouthing Bambi, it is never a waste of time to correct the 
criminal actions of a usurper-in-chief.   "All it takes for evil to triumph is 
for good men to do nothing."   Judging from the tone of your criticism of my 
badmouthing of bambi, that you think I am out of place and unfair to do so?  



  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 12:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine


  John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin 
Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller. 

  Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine will 
run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts.

  What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency generator, 
and his spark controller.   

  The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly of 
plastic.

  Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the 
engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since the 
patent is laped long ago.

  You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied 
in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)?

  See

  http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg




  Cheers:Axil



  On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine.  In 
other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be 
done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's.  How much 
money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator.

If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done.  I'm pretty sure it 
is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it.  I don't believe it is just a 
matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there 
isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this 
technology if it is real.  There has got to be still some fundamental issue 
with it why it is still not a real engine.  What is that issue?

I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can 
answer.

Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine


  You response confuses me.

  Jouni said:

  Better, are you serious? 

  Axil thinks:

  You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True?

  Journi said:

  This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek 
age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at 
Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days 
and into nearby stars in one generation.

  Axil states:

  IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is 
better?

  Journi said:

  Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has 
ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that 
it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some 
vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of 
fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. 

  Axil states:

  I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine.

  Journi said:

  Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is 
somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but 
that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.

  Axil states:

  Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and 
eccentric.

  Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to 
commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of 
trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 
years, a very long time.

  John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a 

Re: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad

[Eric Walker]

Le Aug 8, 2012 à 4:53 PM, Akira Shirakawa  a écrit :

> How popular / mainstream is that site?

I'm not sure how popular the US News and World Report Web site is, but the news 
organization is well-known for producing a series of college rankings.  Every 
high school student is familiar with them.

> And what about oilprice.com? I've read it cover some Rossi news a couple 
> times over the past year, but it appears Celani's demo at NIWeek triggered 
> their interested too:
> 
> http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Yet-Another-Successful-LENR-Device-Enters-the-Race.html

I'm excited about the increasing publicity and about NIWeek.  I wonder whether 
we have reached an inflection point.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Inside of Rohner/Papp plasma chamber...

[Axil Axil]

Bob Rohner and Papp before him uses the alpha particles to canalize the
plasma. That is to pre-ionize the gas to aid is conduction between
electrodes.

John Rohner uses a frequency generator to pre-ionize the gas.


Cheers:Axil


On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:47 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> About 7 minutes into this video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=plcp
>
> ** **
>
> Four electrodes as two sets of opposing electrodes, and each opposing set
> of two look more or less identical.  One set looks to have larger ends, and
> to even have two nodes on the end.
>
> ** **
>
> **1.   **The smaller set of electrodes have aluminum containers, or
> ‘buckets’ as Rohner calls them, that form the base of two of the opposing
> electrodes.  
>
> **2.   **One bucket has Thorium and Rubidium inside.
>
> **3.   **The other bucket contains Thorium and Red Phosphorus.
>
> **4.   **Two tungsten electrodes; these are the larger, more rounded
> ones which look to have two nodes on the end; the opposing electrode’s face
> cannot be seen.
>
> ** **
>
> -Mark
>
> ** **
>

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

[Axil Axil]

These guys don't write things down, they use videos and interviews to
communicate, this makes research difficult.
 I was under the impression that the coil is always active and is not
switched off and on.

J Rohner uses, Scandium at the tip of his anode for some reason. He also
uses four cathodes ( cut down spark plugs) at 110,000 volts each. He says
they add up to 440,000 V total. I don't understand how this addition of
voltage is figured.


Cheers:   Axil

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:34 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Had to delete the 35KB picture in order for this to get posted…
>
> ** **
>
> Here is what we have so far:
>
> **1.   **Primarily just noble gases in a closed cylinder at low
> pressure (1 to several atm).  They just bounce around, occasionally
> bouncing into each other but no chemical nor nuclear reactions taking
> place.  Real boring!
>
> **2.   **There were three other elements mentioned, but in very small
> amounts, and they were not obvious or in the bottom and not easily
> visible.  Thorium mentioned, but more on that later…
>
> **3.   **Spark discharge starts the ionization/plasma generation
> process near electrodes.
>
> **4.   **Plasma is conductive and a large (DC) current flows between
> other set of electrodes (anode/cathode).
>
> **5.   **Then a miracle/the impossible happens!  J
>
> ** **
>
> Unknowns:
>
> **1.   **When is the coil energized?
> If Axil’s speculations are right, it would be on for steps 1 thru 3.
>
> **2.   **Rohner did mention 2g of thorium at the conference, but I
> thought that was only since he didn’t have something else at the
> conference; vaguely remember hearing RF!  Need to rewatch the videos…
>
> ** **
>
> Analysis of attached Picture
>
> **1.   **The lower-right electrode and upper-left are connected to
> the SAME wire!
>
> **2.   **The wire at lower left side electrode wraps underneath the
> vacuum guage and connects to what looks like a ground terminal mounted to
> side of electrode housing; then from there the wire goes into the wooden
> box.
>
> **3.   **The wire on the electrode in the upper-right side one cannot
> see where it goes…. 
>
> ** **
>
> -Mark
>
> ** **
>

[Vo]:Inside of Rohner/Papp plasma chamber...

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

About 7 minutes into this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM
 &feature=plcp

 

Four electrodes as two sets of opposing electrodes, and each opposing set of
two look more or less identical.  One set looks to have larger ends, and to
even have two nodes on the end.

 

1.   The smaller set of electrodes have aluminum containers, or
'buckets' as Rohner calls them, that form the base of two of the opposing
electrodes.  

2.   One bucket has Thorium and Rubidium inside.

3.   The other bucket contains Thorium and Red Phosphorus.

4.   Two tungsten electrodes; these are the larger, more rounded ones
which look to have two nodes on the end; the opposing electrode's face
cannot be seen.

 

-Mark

 

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Axil Axil]

>From a John Rohner video regarding the geometry of the plasma.

The observation about the charge particles seems obvious to me as basic
plasma physics and comes from me.


Cheers: Axil




On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:23 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Axil wrote:
>
> “The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder,
> directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This
> protects walls from erosion.  The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha,
> protons, electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel.”
>
> ** **
>
> Is that speculation, or facts coming from someone who has worked with
> Rohner, or is it from patents??? 
>
> Please try to let us know the source of your statements… sources are
> important. 
>
> ** **
>
> -Mark
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>

RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Had to delete the 35KB picture in order for this to get posted.

 

Here is what we have so far:

1.   Primarily just noble gases in a closed cylinder at low pressure (1
to several atm).  They just bounce around, occasionally bouncing into each
other but no chemical nor nuclear reactions taking place.  Real boring!

2.   There were three other elements mentioned, but in very small
amounts, and they were not obvious or in the bottom and not easily visible.
Thorium mentioned, but more on that later.

3.   Spark discharge starts the ionization/plasma generation process
near electrodes.

4.   Plasma is conductive and a large (DC) current flows between other
set of electrodes (anode/cathode).

5.   Then a miracle/the impossible happens!  J

 

Unknowns:

1.   When is the coil energized?
If Axil's speculations are right, it would be on for steps 1 thru 3.

2.   Rohner did mention 2g of thorium at the conference, but I thought
that was only since he didn't have something else at the conference; vaguely
remember hearing RF!  Need to rewatch the videos.

 

Analysis of attached Picture

1.   The lower-right electrode and upper-left are connected to the SAME
wire!

2.   The wire at lower left side electrode wraps underneath the vacuum
guage and connects to what looks like a ground terminal mounted to side of
electrode housing; then from there the wire goes into the wooden box.

3.   The wire on the electrode in the upper-right side one cannot see
where it goes.. 

 

-Mark

 

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Roarty, Francis X]

>From a reply to my blog http://froarty.scienceblog.com/32178/32178/
1.John Rohner on April 5, 2011 at 6:48 
am said:

Hello
My name is John Rohner and my company is PlasmERG.com (www.plasmerg.com) I am 
the author of the current patent pending on this technology and have running 
test engines using it. I was also the electronic designer of the controller 
that was used on the "certified" 83 engine.
I find your comments very interesting. You have one part particularly right. 
The fuel mix does have one gas that is pure buffer, a second that is quasi 
passive as a second buffer. The rest are used much as you envision except each 
has a higher transition point so one sets the next which sets the last off.
Much as you consider with the heat, the gas mix also is "pre conditioned" 
before the catalyst, a 200KV lightning ball about .1 diameter, is applied. The 
equivalent to your heat is the application of Electromagnetic squeeze and Radio 
frequency energies to Ionize the gas mixture to just under the transition 
point. This lowers the reactive point and simplifies the starting. From there 
the expansion of the plasma has a five to one expansion rate, mix dependent. 
Removal of the catalyst and RF will cause the transition to stop, and as you 
assume the return to steady state gas does cause a partial vacuum and a 
negative thermal impulse.
I am unfamiliar with ZPE or Rossi. But if this process specifies Hydrogen then 
it is wrong. Hydrogen has a reaction time that is too fast for a small 
displacement system.
For a very large displacement a small hydrogen part may be helpful to start the 
process as more volume is required in less time.
In our tests we have found it too quick and dissipates before it can "light the 
candle"
thus we use the slower Helium.
I hope you do not mind my checking in and commenting as this is definitely THE 
best hope for future clean air power generation and we have just scratched the 
surface. It is my thought that there is still a world to learn about this.
Thank You


From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 12:00 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine


John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin 
Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller.

Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine will 
run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts.

What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency generator, 
and his spark controller.

The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly of 
plastic.

Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the engine 
on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since the patent 
is laped long ago.

You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied in 
bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)?

See

http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg



Cheers:Axil
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro 
mailto:jth...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine.  In other 
words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done 
for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's.  How much money 
would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator.

If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done.  I'm pretty sure it is 
NOT just a matter of throwing money into it.  I don't believe it is just a 
matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there 
isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this 
technology if it is real.  There has got to be still some fundamental issue 
with it why it is still not a real engine.  What is that issue?

I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can 
answer.

Jojo


- Original Message -
From: Axil Axil
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine


You response confuses me.

Jouni said:

Better, are you serious?

Axil thinks:

You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True?

Journi said:

This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age 
(by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev 
scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into 
nearby stars in one generation.

Axil states:

IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better?

Journi said:

Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever 
hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is 
way too good to be true, but it 

RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Axil wrote:

"The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs
it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects
walls from erosion.  The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons,
electrons confined inside the thin plasma channel."

 

Is that speculation, or facts coming from someone who has worked with
Rohner, or is it from patents??? 

Please try to let us know the source of your statements. sources are
important. 

 

-Mark

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Axil Axil]

John Rehner has done the same thing that Robert Godes founder of Brillouin
Energy has done; create a nanoeceond high power elecric pulse controller.

Like any engine, timing is all important. With proper timing the engine
will run will with little or no bad nuclear byproducts.

What John Rehner wants to sell is his control boards, his freqency
generator, and his spark controller.

The cost of his engine in mass production is $300. It can be built mostly
of plastic.

Rohner is hoping the customers will buy his stuff rather than build the
engine on their own. It is open source and not protected in any way since
the patent is laped long ago.

You saw may post on the kit Rohner sells, right... or were you too occupied
in bad mouthing Obama (aka... a waste of time)?

See

http://www.rohnerengineering.com/pix/OurMBs.jpg




Cheers:Axil

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

> **
> Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine.  In
> other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs
> to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's.  How
> much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my
> generator.
>
> If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done.  I'm pretty sure
> it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it.  I don't believe it is
> just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe
> that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance
> to fund this technology if it is real.  There has got to be still some
> fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine.  What is that
> issue?
>
> I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who
> can answer.
>
> Jojo
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Axil Axil 
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
>
> You response confuses me.
>
> Jouni said:
>
> *Better, are you serious?*
>
> Axil thinks:
>
> You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True?
>
> Journi said:
>
> *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star
> Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at
> Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six
> days and into nearby stars in one generation.*
>
> Axil states:
>
> IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is
> better?
>
> Journi said:
>
> *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier
> has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not
> think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to
> take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a
> little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any
> material needs.*
>
> Axil states:
>
> I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine.
>
> Journi said:
>
> *Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
> somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
> but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.*
>
> Axil states:
>
> Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and
> eccentric.
>
> Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to
> commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of
> trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is
> 30 years, a very long time.
>
> John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team
> player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged
> enough to bring the engine to market.
>
> Journi said:
>
> *I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
> boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
> could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
> apparatus!*
>
> Axil states:
>
> Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of
> him and Rohner is way ahead of them all.
>
> The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in
> nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get
> that far in commercialization.
>
> The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that...
> from the standpoint of commercialization.
> LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a
> technology.
>
>
> Cheers:   Axil
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>  On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
>>> From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
>>> than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
>>> heat production.
>>>
>>
>> Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth
>> Civilization into Star

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Roarty, Francis X]

What purpose does the coil play? I posit that it aligns the otherwise random 
layers of gas into Casimir geometry -forcing the layers into parallel 
alignments with trapped ions caught between that then become fractionalized [ 
inverse Rydberg matter]
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 11:38 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine


What purpose does the coil play? Creating an intense mag-field to align the 
plasma ions?



The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder, directs it 
into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This protects walls from 
erosion.



The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined 
inside the thin plasma channel.

Cheers:  Axil

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro 
mailto:jth...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine.  In other 
words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done 
for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's.  How much money 
would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator.

If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done.  I'm pretty sure it is 
NOT just a matter of throwing money into it.  I don't believe it is just a 
matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there 
isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this 
technology if it is real.  There has got to be still some fundamental issue 
with it why it is still not a real engine.  What is that issue?

I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can 
answer.

Jojo


- Original Message -
From: Axil Axil
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine


You response confuses me.

Jouni said:

Better, are you serious?

Axil thinks:

You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True?

Journi said:

This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age 
(by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev 
scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into 
nearby stars in one generation.

Axil states:

IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is better?

Journi said:

Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has ever 
hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that it is 
way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some vacations 
from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of fairy-tale 
world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs.

Axil states:

I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine.

Journi said:

Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is somewhat 
antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but that's the 
way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.

Axil states:

Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and eccentric.

Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize 
it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other 
people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long 
time.

John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team player, 
has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged enough to 
bring the engine to market.

Journi said:

I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost 
for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could 
present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus!

Axil states:

Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of him 
and Rohner is way ahead of them all.

The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in 
nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get 
that far in commercialization.

The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... from 
the standpoint of commercialization.
LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology.


Cheers:   Axil





On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen 
mailto:jounivalko...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil 
mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

>From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system than 
>the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat 
>production.

Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth 
Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type 
II civilization at Kardashev scale). With th

[Vo]:Dr Mallove s Murder, and the Papp Engine= ??

[Ron Kita]

Greetings All,

IF my memory is correct, that in the time frame of the Murder of Dr Gene
Mallove-
there was a RUMOR that Gene was about to solve the energy crises with by
exposing a great Free Energy Device.

Much effort was  focused on this.   I am  "speculating" that perhaps  it
some form of
Papp Engine.  I think the source of this "rumor" was someone in Vortex.

I used to attend Temple University Frontier Sciences  with Gene, and
it  "appears" to correct murderers were found and convictedBUT
I wonder is the Case Closed?

Any  Vortexian  who  may have remembered this?

Respectfully,
Ron
For those who like "Conspiracy Theories"  perhaps a good  start. It pays to
question- everything.
For the longest time...I thought that a "hit" was placed on Gene.

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Axil Axil]

*What purpose does the coil play? Creating an intense mag-field to align
the plasma ions?*


 The coil acts to center the plasma into the center of the cylinder,
directs it into the center of the piston and away from its walls. This
protects walls from erosion.


 The coil also keeps charged particles: alpha, protons, electrons confined
inside the thin plasma channel.


Cheers:  Axil


On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

> **
> Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine.  In
> other words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs
> to be done for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's.  How
> much money would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my
> generator.
>
> If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done.  I'm pretty sure
> it is NOT just a matter of throwing money into it.  I don't believe it is
> just a matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe
> that there isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance
> to fund this technology if it is real.  There has got to be still some
> fundamental issue with it why it is still not a real engine.  What is that
> issue?
>
> I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who
> can answer.
>
> Jojo
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Axil Axil 
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine
>
> You response confuses me.
>
> Jouni said:
>
> *Better, are you serious?*
>
> Axil thinks:
>
> You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True?
>
> Journi said:
>
> *This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star
> Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at
> Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six
> days and into nearby stars in one generation.*
>
> Axil states:
>
> IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is
> better?
>
> Journi said:
>
> *Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier
> has ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not
> think that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to
> take some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a
> little bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any
> material needs.*
>
> Axil states:
>
> I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine.
>
> Journi said:
>
> *Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
> somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
> but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.*
>
> Axil states:
>
> Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and
> eccentric.
>
> Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to
> commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of
> trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is
> 30 years, a very long time.
>
> John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team
> player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged
> enough to bring the engine to market.
>
> Journi said:
>
> *I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
> boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
> could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
> apparatus!*
>
> Axil states:
>
> Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of
> him and Rohner is way ahead of them all.
>
> The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in
> nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get
> that far in commercialization.
>
> The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that...
> from the standpoint of commercialization.
> LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a
> technology.
>
>
> Cheers:   Axil
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>  On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
>>> From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
>>> than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
>>> heat production.
>>>
>>
>> Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth
>> Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into
>> Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel
>> into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.
>>
>> Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has
>> ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think
>> that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take
>> some vacations fro

RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Howdy Fran!

 

Yes, the demo was good, and the reversal of the piston was interesting;
seemed to be 'pulled' down to some degree and if that is the case, then
there is a physical expansion and contraction going on with the gasses.  It
was good that they took it apart to show how simple the thing really is.
The video link I supplied is a much better video of just how simple it is
inside. no details on the electronics, nor how the coil is wound.

 

As for possible theoretical mechanisms. that's what we're here for (as he
wipes the drool from his chin with a shirt sleeve)!   What purpose does the
coil play?  Creating an intense mag-field to align the plasma ions?

 

There are two sets of electrical contacts:

-  Electrodes

-  Anode and Cathode

 

I know that sounds redundant, but that was Rohner's jargon.  If I remember
correctly, the anode/cathode are there to supply a (DC?) current AFTER the
electrodes spark and 'energize' the plasma. guess it's time to look at the
patents, if they've been published.  Is the spark discharge creating the
plasma, and then one gets a DC current flow across the anode/cathode?  The
spark is NOT for combustion, so it must be meant to have some kind of effect
on the ions/free electrons? 

 

This is a hoot!  All these technologies (CF, Papp, and who knows what's
next, Hutchinson Effect!) mired in obscurity for many decades, and they all
get credibility and (hopefully) commercialization in a year or three!!!  At
least it occurred before we passed on, but it sure would have been great if
the lost ol'timer Vorts could have been here to watch this unfold. Hey, has
anyone ever thought of holding a Vortex-l union???  Can't really call it a
'reunion' since I don't think there's ever been a union! J

-Mark

 

From: Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 7:45 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

 

Mark,

I had similar apprehension but the demonstration itself was
pretty convincing -I don't think the energy consumption of the ignition ckt
was much different open air vs driving a weight up and I agree with Rhoner
that the instant reversal of the piston ahead of the weight as the gases
contract is telling us something - I don't agree anything is necessarily
being consumed even from a nuclear perspective as McKubre is suggesting but
would posit this is the same catalytic/Casimir geometry we see in the
Mills/Rossi designs.only the medium has changed such that we have anomalous
displacement / expansion of gas instead of temperature changes but it is
still all just manipulating the variables in gas law -  where Mills and
Rossi contain the PV forcing t to change this device contains Pt  forcing
the v  to change. We have all been told that the random motion of gas is due
to VP fluctuations below the plank scale [HUP] and are not exploitable but I
am convinced that Casimir geometry accumulates and segregates the isotropy
such that these zero point fluctuations can be exploited by gas atoms
exposed to these regions in a biased manner. IMHO The plasma forms layers
like the argon layers  Rhoner makes mention of that are in constant motion
with trapped ions in between forming dynamic menisci of Casimir geometry
that constantly alter the fractional [inverse Rydberg] state of the ions ..
you can take your pick after that whether it be Mills like  hydrino ions in
collision, Haisch - Moller Lamb Pinch,  or something similar to the MAHG
oscilation between bond states only with noble gas I guess this would be
between ionic and noble states.

Fran

 

From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:54 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

 

I'm glad I watched that video to the end, because the first half brought
back bad memories!

 

I and many Vorts have been following the fringe sci/tech world for decades,
and the first half of this presentation was VERY poor. reminds me of the
charlatans which showed up at the Tesla Society conferences with their
overunity device or whatever, and when their presentation came up, it was,
"aaahh shucks, I was testing the device this morning and something went pop
and I must have burned something out!  And we didn't bring any spare parts.
; So we won't be able to demonstrate the overunity device, but we will do
the presentation and there are books and CDs if you want more details."
That's why I gave up on that venue 20 years ago. there might have been a few
individuals that had useful stuff, but 90+% was BS.

 

This looked pretty painful for McKubre!  His body language and facial
expressions did not look real relaxed at first.  I bet this was so much
different from a room full of PhDs, and *not* in a good way professionally
speaking, that he felt his reputation was suffering!  I don't blame him. the
problems with microphones, with the slide presentation and with the
non-play

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Jojo Jaro]

Axil and others, What would it take to commercialize the Papp engine.  In other 
words, what else is needed in terms of development that still needs to be done 
for the first commercial engine that I can buy from Lowe's.  How much money 
would it take for it to become a real engine that can drive my generator.

If it is not at this level, what else needs to be done.  I'm pretty sure it is 
NOT just a matter of throwing money into it.  I don't believe it is just a 
matter of raising funds for its development cause I can't believe that there 
isn't a millionaire out there who would not jump at the chance to fund this 
technology if it is real.  There has got to be still some fundamental issue 
with it why it is still not a real engine.  What is that issue?

I am not familiar with Papp engine technology so I am asking anyone who can 
answer.

Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Axil Axil 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine


  You response confuses me.

  Jouni said:

  Better, are you serious? 

  Axil thinks:

  You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True?

  Journi said:

  This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek age 
(by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at Kardashev 
scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six days and into 
nearby stars in one generation.

  Axil states:

  IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is 
better?

  Journi said:

  Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has 
ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that 
it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some 
vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of 
fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. 

  Axil states:

  I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine.

  Journi said:

  Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is 
somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but 
that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.

  Axil states:

  Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and 
eccentric.

  Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to commercialize 
it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of trust. And other 
people have been building on his work since 1982, that is 30 years, a very long 
time.

  John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team 
player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged 
enough to bring the engine to market.

  Journi said:

  I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge boost 
for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could 
present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion apparatus!

  Axil states:

  Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of 
him and Rohner is way ahead of them all.

  The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in 
nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get 
that far in commercialization.

  The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that... 
from the standpoint of commercialization.

  LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology.


  Cheers:   Axil









  On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen  
wrote:




On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil  wrote:
  From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system 
than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high heat 
production.



Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth 
Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type 
II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into 
Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.


Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has 
ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think that 
it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take some 
vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little bit of 
fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material needs. 


Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is 
somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but 
that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.


I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge 
boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he could 
present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold 

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman,Video

[Axil Axil]

For the convenience of our readership at vortex I will post a rebuttal to
Dr, Feynman's account*.*


 *http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html*


 Feynman's Mistakes and the Recovery


But at the public meeting the next month at which the fatality occurred
(see the local newspaper account of the fatality and injuries-p. 30) was
Caltech physicist Richard P. Feynman (1918-1988), who had worked on the
Manhattan atomic bomb project in World War II. Before even arriving at the
demonstration, Feynman assumed that the Papp engine, whose operation he was
about to witness, had to be part of an elaborate hoax. We know this because
he recounted his reactions during the episode in his widely circulated
internet account touted by the "skeptic" community (see "Mr. Papf's (sic)
Perpetual Motion Machine," p. 29).

But here is the central problem with Feynman's analysis (which has many
other errors of fact and logic embedded in it): There was a court action
against Feynman by Papp and his backer, Don Roser of Environetics, Inc., as
a result of Feynman's inept attempt to disprove the Papp engine with his
unauthorized pulling of an electric control-circuit wire that Feynman
egregiously imagined had to be powering the engine. It was unfortunate for
Feynman that the wire's gauge was far too thin even had there been a secret
electric motor within the retrofit Volvo engine. Furthermore, as you will
read, the engine kept running even after the flimsy wire was removed.
Feynman asserted that Papp most likely had deliberately planned to blow up
his own engine to avoid subsequent discovery of the "fraud"! And, Feynman
acknowledges that there was an out-of-court settlement with Caltech.
Surely, had there ever been the slightest piece of evidence that
conventional explosives blew up the Papp engine that day, Caltech would
most certainly not have had to settle. Papp would soon have been charged
with manslaughter, no doubt, and Feynman would surely have cited this
evidence publicly. He was not one to shrink from dramatic gestures. Caltech
also had the motive and the means to skewer Papp with the kind of evidence
that is routinely gathered by police departments and crime labs following
explosion accidents.

However, all records of the investigation into the accident appear to have
vanished down some kind of a memory hole. I believe they exist somewhere,
but we have not been able— yet— to obtain them. On June 29, 1998, Caltech's
very helpful Associate Archivist, Shelley Erwin, faxed me: "Well, the
mysterious affair with Mr. Papp/Papf continues to remain mysterious. I have
found nothing in the Feynman papers that refers to it. Nor is there any
obvious reference to Mr. Papp or the lawsuit in administrative or publicity
papers from the time. We do not have a clippings file for the 1960s, so
that is one type of resource I did not investigate. . .I think I have done
all I can here, without any useful result. We would be interested to know
how your search comes out— if indeed this is a true account. I wish I knew."

I made more recent contact with various Caltech offices, which could not
provide me with any records— not even its public information office had
newsclips, and efforts to locate official accident reports in California
have come up dry. Some of these may have been destroyed, according to some
police departments contacted. After all, this is an accident that happened
thirty-five years ago. But the point is that nowhere, so far, do we have
any evidence that the explosion was a result of illicit explosives. Failing
such direct evidence of hoax, the proved violence of the explosions— the
November 1968 and the October 1968 ones— strongly point to the reality of
the Papp process. But we also have the contemporary laboratory work that
establishes convincing evidence— visual and by instrumentation— that noble
gases can be made to explode and achieve over-unity. Heroic work on a
shoestring budget over the past few years is recounted in broad scope by
researchers Mark Hugo and Blair Jenness in Minnesota (p. 51). We hope to
feature their work in greater depth in future issues. Heinz Klostermann of
California, whom I met two years ago, has been of great assistance in
assembling some of the information that went into this issue of Infinite
Energy. On p. 55, he discusses his broad knowledge of many of the groups
working in the U.S. in the past and today in the effort to recover the Papp
engine technology. He has begun his own independent initiative.


  Cheers:  Axil


On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Alan J Fletcher  wrote:

>  At 05:05 PM 8/8/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
>
> Feynman's account is at
> http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html
> Infinite Energy description :
> http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html
> Papp demonstrating his engine with a dynonometer :
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wZqDQ7Pjg
>
>
> The video is discussed at :
> http://hutchisoneffect.ca/Academy_Video%20of

Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

[Chemical Engineer]

Guys,

A couple things:

Daniel wanted me to clarify my theory some more so here it goes:

Things just did not make sense to me about so many confusing fusion
theories about all the similar effects.  I posed some questions to Abd a
few nights ago and he never responded.  I joked about a grand unified
theory of cold fusion because there are so many.  I am en engineer and like
many  want to build something and get it to market but to do that requires
a basic understanding of the reaction.

1)  First off, I believe Ed.  S is right, the primary reaction is not
taking place with the lattice metal as he states correctly but it is
happening in the voids/cracks/impurities as he states.

 2) The hydrogen gas is heated and pressurized which will increase the rate
of collisions of hydrogen and also loads/absorbs hydrogen into the metal
lattice - (basic chemistry)

3) The electrical stimulation of the hydrogen is carried out by electrical
potential differences across the voids/cracks/impurities in the lattice
(sparks jump across the gaps & voids and a potential difference builds up
across dissimilar metals) .  This can also be done with a spark plug as DGT
uses which creates an electrostatic charge on the microparticle suspension
(same effect)

4)The electrical arcing splits the hydrogen to create atomic hydrogen and
it also concentrates energy on the atomic hydrogen as it collides (basic
electrochemistry mixed with particle physics)

5) If the concentrated energy at collision exceeds ~ 1-8 TeV, according to
theory (If you believe in more space dimensions at quantum scales and how
strong quantum gravity acting on the bulk/brane is) at the collision
point/instant of the Atomic Hydrogen it causes the hydrogen molecules to
collapse into each other creating a singularity (particle physics and
quantum physics - I weighed heavily on the CERN paper)

6) The voids in the lattice actually increase the effect of quantum scale
gravity due to the hoop effect (gravitons) I mentioned in my paper (The
atomic hydrogen is squeezed into a void on all sides which magnifies the
quantum effect of gravity, effectively aiding in crushing the atomic
hydrogen into a singularity)

7)  The collapsed micro/quantum black holes can consume more hydrogen based
upon their lifetime but evaporate very quickly releasing heat and low
levels of radiation products.  Some of this quantum goo bombards the
lattice and may result in some additional Nuclear by-products

8)  Depending the duration of singularity creation/evaporation this effect
will create an effect such as "heat after death"

I believe we humans now have a nice baby black hole generator  which
generates heat and some low level radiation . I am a big Steven Hawking fan
so I recognize this effect

I have read every post, blog, paper that I could over the past year and I
believe my theory has a basis and is what is needed to focus the
development effort.  Of course I may be wrong, but I don't make my living
coming up with theories.  If it is some type of fusion and not Hawking
Radiation than I will still have alot of engineering work to do over the
next 20 years and everyone will laugh at my crazy theory.

If I am right and as I think about it, given the fact that universes are
created from singularities, I believe we better be careful what we are
playing with else we might become one of those black holes we see up in the
sky...






On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Chemical Engineer wrote:

> Guys,
>
> I did it again, I have a couple revisions of this, in one instance it
> should say 1-8 TeV instead of 1-8 keV.  I have attached the latest.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Chemical Engineer wrote:
>
>> I thought I posted it to both Vortex & CMNS at the same time.  I believe
>> I have identified the wicked gremlin (attached)
>>
>> Sorry!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:25 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
>>
>>> Hell yes send it over here!  The Collective is all about discussing the
>>> fringes… we don’t have to worry about ‘academic’ or ‘professional’
>>> reputations, so we’re open to most all things… and hopefully backed up with
>>> some data.
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> -Mark Iverson
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *From:* Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:32 PM
>>> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Stewart,  send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over.  I
>>> for one are very interested in looking at this new theory.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Jojo
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>>
>>> *From:* Chemical Engineer  
>>>
>>> *To:* c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft 
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> My first in

RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Roarty, Francis X]

Mark,
I had similar apprehension but the demonstration itself was 
pretty convincing -I don't think the energy consumption of the ignition ckt was 
much different open air vs driving a weight up and I agree with Rhoner that the 
instant reversal of the piston ahead of the weight as the gases contract is 
telling us something - I don't agree anything is necessarily being consumed 
even from a nuclear perspective as McKubre is suggesting but would posit this 
is the same catalytic/Casimir geometry we see in the Mills/Rossi designs...only 
the medium has changed such that we have anomalous displacement / expansion of 
gas instead of temperature changes but it is still all just manipulating the 
variables in gas law -  where Mills and Rossi contain the PV forcing t to 
change this device contains Pt  forcing the v  to change. We have all been told 
that the random motion of gas is due to VP fluctuations below the plank scale 
[HUP] and are not exploitable but I am convinced that Casimir geometry 
accumulates and segregates the isotropy such that these zero point fluctuations 
can be exploited by gas atoms exposed to these regions in a biased manner. IMHO 
The plasma forms layers like the argon layers  Rhoner makes mention of that are 
in constant motion with trapped ions in between forming dynamic menisci of 
Casimir geometry that constantly alter the fractional [inverse Rydberg] state 
of the ions .. you can take your pick after that whether it be Mills like  
hydrino ions in collision, Haisch - Moller Lamb Pinch,  or something similar to 
the MAHG oscilation between bond states only with noble gas I guess this would 
be between ionic and noble states.
Fran

From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:54 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

I'm glad I watched that video to the end, because the first half brought back 
bad memories!

I and many Vorts have been following the fringe sci/tech world for decades, and 
the first half of this presentation was VERY poor... reminds me of the 
charlatans which showed up at the Tesla Society conferences with their 
overunity device or whatever, and when their presentation came up, it was, 
"aaahh shucks, I was testing the device this morning and something went pop and 
I must have burned something out!  And we didn't bring any spare parts... ; So 
we won't be able to demonstrate the overunity device, but we will do the 
presentation and there are books and CDs if you want more details."  That's why 
I gave up on that venue 20 years ago... there might have been a few individuals 
that had useful stuff, but 90+% was BS.

This looked pretty painful for McKubre!  His body language and facial 
expressions did not look real relaxed at first.  I bet this was so much 
different from a room full of PhDs, and *not* in a good way professionally 
speaking, that he felt his reputation was suffering!  I don't blame him... the 
problems with microphones, with the slide presentation and with the non-playing 
videos, were so amateurish they would make any professional eng ineer/scientist 
cringe!  I know I did, more than once.   It wasn't until the last few minutes 
that McKubre provided some history of how he got involved, and that is when I 
felt the time spent watching it was worth it.  He chose his words carefully as 
a good scientist will do, but,
  **he seemed to be quite sure that this was also a very important and new 
kind of phenomenon**.

I applaud Rohner for his efforts and openness to demo this thing, and for 
McKubre to even show up and more or less vouch for this kind of thing... 20 
years ago, it would have been a career limiting move!

The operation of this device is quite intriguing, especially the video with 
Rohner and Dannel Roberts in Rohner's shop... they use a pneumatic cylinder at 
120psi (??) for measuring the force, and it is substantial.  See this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=plcp

This is the kind of thin g that causes Vorts to start salivating!  Looking fwd 
to some discussions about this thing...

-Mark Iverson

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:59 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8&feature=player_detailpage

Rohnermachine.com

Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development 
of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed 
version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a 
business decision but Bob does do demos.

The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed  above. In it, 
McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp technology.

Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which 
are interesting.

The demo shows the device

Re: [Vo]:NIWeek 2012 video: Anomalous Heat Effects

[Terry Blanton]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Akira Shirakawa
 wrote:
> On 2012-08-09 02:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
>>
>> Hello group,
>
>
> A related link:
>
> https://decibel.ni.com/content/groups/niweek-2012/blog/2012/08/08/session-recap-the-anomalous-heat-effect-aka-cold-fusion

“At this point,” Duncan explained, “there is no theory without good data.”

The article said that there were over 200 experiments showing excess
heat.  I think they are off by an order of magnitude or two.  :-)

Akira, you are a better CF reporter than SK, but that might not be
much of a compliment.  Thanks for all your efforts!

T

[Vo]:Philadelphia Inquirer Mentions LENR-CANR.ORG

[Craig Brown]

LENR-CANR.ORG gets a mention in Philadephia Inquirer blog.http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/evolution/Climate-Change-Deniers-Not-as-Prolific-as-Cold-Fusion-Proponents.html

Re: [Vo]:NIWeek 2012 video: Anomalous Heat Effects

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-09 02:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

Hello group,


A related link:

https://decibel.ni.com/content/groups/niweek-2012/blog/2012/08/08/session-recap-the-anomalous-heat-effect-aka-cold-fusion

Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

I'm glad I watched that video to the end, because the first half brought
back bad memories!

 

I and many Vorts have been following the fringe sci/tech world for decades,
and the first half of this presentation was VERY poor. reminds me of the
charlatans which showed up at the Tesla Society conferences with their
overunity device or whatever, and when their presentation came up, it was,
"aaahh shucks, I was testing the device this morning and something went pop
and I must have burned something out!  And we didn't bring any spare parts.
So we won't be able to demonstrate the overunity device, but we will do the
presentation and there are books and CDs if you want more details."  That's
why I gave up on that venue 20 years ago. there might have been a few
individuals that had useful stuff, but 90+% was BS.

 

This looked pretty painful for McKubre!  His body language and facial
expressions did not look real relaxed at first.  I bet this was so much
different from a room full of PhDs, and *not* in a good way professionally
speaking, that he felt his reputation was suffering!  I don't blame him. the
problems with microphones, with the slide presentation and with the
non-playing videos, were so amateurish they would make any professional
engineer/scientist cringe!  I know I did, more than once.   It wasn't until
the last few minutes that McKubre provided some history of how he got
involved, and that is when I felt the time spent watching it was worth it.
He chose his words carefully as a good scientist will do, but,

  **he seemed to be quite sure that this was also a very important and
new kind of phenomenon**.

 

I applaud Rohner for his efforts and openness to demo this thing, and for
McKubre to even show up and more or less vouch for this kind of thing. 20
years ago, it would have been a career limiting move!

 

The operation of this device is quite intriguing, especially the video with
Rohner and Dannel Roberts in Rohner's shop. they use a pneumatic cylinder at
120psi (??) for measuring the force, and it is substantial.  See this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM
 &feature=plcp

 

This is the kind of thing that causes Vorts to start salivating!  Looking
fwd to some discussions about this thing.

 

-Mark Iverson

 

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:59 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8

&feature=player_detailpage


Rohnermachine.com

Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the
development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder
horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version
of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos.

The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed  above. In
it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp
technology.

Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking
which are interesting.

The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in
a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike.

At 1: 03 into the long video,  McKubre states his position as an advocate of
the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites
Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial
interest in the engine.

A first hand eye witness to the  Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said
Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the
power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine
and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the
guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so
died the Papp engine in the science community. 

As a personal opinion,  McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and
is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction.


Cheers:   Axil

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Jojo Jaro]

Jouni, I will have to take issue with your naive, simpleton, and bigoted 
comment.   You just insulted a whole range of people and I expect an apology.

Do you feel you are smarter than Isaac Newton - The father of Modern Physics
or Michael Faraday - The father of electromagnetism
or Louis Pastuer - The father of modern microbiology
or Johann Kepler - The father of Modern Physical Astronomy
or Charles Bell - Premier Anatomist and Surgeon


These are just a sampling of men who were pioneers of science, smarter than you 
can ever hope to be, and deeply religious people.  Can you say you are smarter 
than any of these guys.  Do you know anybody who is smarter than any of these 
guys?  

Ah... yes, Richard Dawkins is.  OK, Whatever.


Jojo



  - Original Message - 
  From: Jouni Valkonen 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine


  Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is 
somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad, but 
that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Axil Axil]

Gravitational collapse is not the only process that could create black
holes. In principle, black holes could be formed in high-energy collisions
that achieve sufficient density.

As of 2002, no such events have been detected, either directly or
indirectly as a deficiency of the mass balance in particle accelerator
experiments.

This suggests that there must be a lower limit for the mass of black holes.
Theoretically, this boundary is expected to lie around the Planck mass (mP
= √ħc/G ≈ 1.2×1019 GeV/c2 ≈ 2.2×10−8 kg), where quantum effects are
expected to invalidate the predictions of general relativity.

This would put the creation of black holes firmly out of reach of any high
energy process occurring on or near the Earth. However, certain
developments in quantum gravity suggest that the Planck mass could be much
lower: some braneworld scenarios for example put the boundary as low as 1
TeV/c2.

This would make it conceivable for micro black holes to be created in the
high energy collisions occurring when cosmic rays hit the Earth's
atmosphere, or possibly in the new Large Hadron Collider at CERN.

Lower mass black holes are expected to evaporate very fast; for example, a
black hole of mass 1 TeV/c2 would take less than 10−88 seconds to evaporate
completely. For such a small black hole, quantum gravitation effects are
expected to play an important role and could even—although current
developments in quantum gravity do not indicate so—hypothetically make such
a small black hole stable.
Yet these theories are very speculative, and the creation of black holes in
these processes is deemed unlikely by many specialists. Even if micro black
holes should be formed in these collisions, it is expected that they would
evaporate in about 10−25 seconds, posing no threat to the Earth.

It might be wise to say away from the singularity as causation for LENR
until more is known about their formation and sebsequent evaperation.


Cheers:Axil

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Chemical Engineer wrote:

> Guys,
>
> The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions
> in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion
> collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy.  Just enough
> and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten.  Too many singularities or ones
> with too large event horizons and she blows...
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
>>> From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
>>> than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
>>> heat production.
>>>
>>
>> Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth
>> Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into
>> Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel
>> into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.
>>
>> Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has
>> ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think
>> that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take
>> some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little
>> bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material
>> needs.
>>
>> Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
>> somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
>> but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.
>>
>> I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
>> boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
>> could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
>> apparatus!
>>
>> –Jouni
>>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Hell yes send it over here!  The Collective is all about discussing the
fringes. we don't have to worry about 'academic' or 'professional'
reputations, so we're open to most all things. and hopefully backed up with
some data.

 

-Mark Iverson

 

From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:32 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

 

Stewart,  send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over.  I for
one are very interested in looking at this new theory.

 

 

Jojo

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Chemical Engineer   

To: c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com 

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM

Subject: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

 

Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft 

 

My first instance of "1-8 keV" should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in
the second usage)  and "A negatively charged singularity would feed
preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles"  instead of negatively. 

 

Sorry for the confusion.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer 
wrote:

All,

 

I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum
reactor.  I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the
primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR.  May they,
along with Martin, RIP.

 

There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission,
Fusion & Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation.  The first two can hopefully
be retired.

 

Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea.  I weighed
heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at
the LHC.  I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary
to Arxiv (after I clean it up some).  I am going to follow up with some
calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math...

 

It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono)

 

Stewart D. Simonson

cheme...@gmail.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Axil Axil]

You response confuses me.

Jouni said:

*Better, are you serious?*

Axil thinks:

You state the Rossi's reactor is superior in concept. True?

Journi said:

*This engine would immediately transform Earth Civilization into Star Trek
age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into Type II civilization at
Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel into Mars in just six
days and into nearby stars in one generation.*

Axil states:

IMO, this is possible. But do you still think that the Rossi reactor is
better?

Journi said:

*Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has
ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think
that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take
some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little
bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material
needs.*

Axil states:

I take this statement as an full throated endorsement of the engine.

Journi said:

*Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi.*

Axil states:

Papp and Rossi are two peas in the same pod; brilliant, paranoid and
eccentric.

Papp stumbled onto the reaction and was smart enough to try to
commercialize it. He could not do it because of his personality and lack of
trust. And other people have been building on his work since 1982, that is
30 years, a very long time.

John Rohner is smart, trusting enough, cooperative enough, a great team
player, has the right electronics background, is down to earth, and dogged
enough to bring the engine to market.

Journi said:

*I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
apparatus!*

Axil states:

Celani is still working on LENR. Rossi is two generations(LENR++) ahead of
him and Rohner is way ahead of them all.

The Papp engine can get a UL certification next week; it is so benign in
nature. It may take other LENR developers many years or even decades to get
that far in commercialization.

The Papp process is open source and is very attractive because of that...
from the standpoint of commercialization.
LENR commercialization is key to general acceptance of LENR as a technology.


Cheers:   Axil





On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:

>
>
> On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>> From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
>> than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
>> heat production.
>>
>
> Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth
> Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into
> Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel
> into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.
>
> Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has
> ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think
> that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take
> some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little
> bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material
> needs.
>
> Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
> somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
> but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.
>
> I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
> boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
> could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
> apparatus!
>
> –Jouni
>

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Chemical Engineer]

Guys,

The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions
in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion
collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy.  Just enough
and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten.  Too many singularities or ones
with too large event horizons and she blows...

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:

>
>
> On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>> From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
>> than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
>> heat production.
>>
>
> Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth
> Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into
> Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel
> into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.
>
> Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has
> ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think
> that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take
> some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little
> bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material
> needs.
>
> Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
> somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
> but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.
>
> I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
> boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
> could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
> apparatus!
>
> –Jouni
>

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Chemical Engineer]

Guys,

The energy from this device would come from the atomic gas ion collisions
in the approx 1 TeV to 8 TeV range and should produce singularities (ion
collapse) which quickly evaporate releasing nuclear energy.  Just enough
and it will purr like a Schrodinger kitten.  Too many singularities or ones
with too large event horizons and she blows...

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:

>
>
> On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>> From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
>> than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
>> heat production.
>>
>
> Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth
> Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into
> Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel
> into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.
>
> Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has
> ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think
> that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take
> some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little
> bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material
> needs.
>
> Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
> somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
> but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.
>
> I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
> boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
> could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
> apparatus!
>
> –Jouni
>

Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect

[David Roberson]

Those were exciting days.  I was hesitant to become more deeply involved by 
similar logic as you Jed.  The peak always appeared to be just over the horizon 
and I was sure that I would jump in too late!  I guess that Apple almost went 
under at least once, to be rescued by their arch enemy.  I suspect that was 
done to protect a certain unmentioned company from being declared a monopoly.  
Had Apple's OS disappeared, there would not be many good volume sources.

We need to be prudent when investing in LENR companies.  Perhaps members of the 
vortex can work together to determine the best opportunities.  At least we 
should benefit from our organization!

You know, I as you recall looking at the early generation OSs and realizing 
that they were not anything super special and that either of us could have 
matched or exceeded the performance of them in relatively short order.  The 
most successful of them won the match by name recognition in my opinion.  
Things could have gone in other directions fairly easily.  Just thinking with 
that logic kept me on the sidelines waiting for new developments which never 
materialized.

The OSs improved enormously over the years and it became a major task to 
achieve that level of performance without a very large team of programmers.  A 
small team had an almost zero chance of competing successfully once things got 
rolling.  I got lazy fairly soon and began to program with visual aids which 
took a lot of the skill out of programming.  I still occasionally use assembly 
with microcontrollers to enjoy total control over the devices.

Dave

P.S. Don't make me afraid to invest in the cold fusion companies Jed!  The 
trick is to pick the best ones and I am counting upon our friends to assist us. 


-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 7:54 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect


David Roberson  wrote:
 

OK, so some engineers and technical people did expect a pretty large volume of 
PC sales.



Yup. They made it happen. They risked inventing cheap printers, for example, 
hoping there would be a mass market for them.





  Too bad you did not act on your assumption or you might be another of the 
billionaires on record.



I did the best I could! I did okay. In a boom like that, there are as many way 
to lose money as there are to make it.


If cold fusion starts to boom, remember that. Look at solar cells now.


I stayed clear of the dot-com boom because every time I looked a company I 
thought to myself, "I could do that easily. If I can do it, any competent 
programmer can, so where is the competitive advantage?" I was right about most 
of them, but way wrong about Amazon! I should have bought their stock. I know 
nothing about the stock market, so I steer clear of it. The thing is, I thought 
WordPerfect was a lot better than Microsoft Word. They are all but dead and 
gone so I guess product quality is not the right metric.


- Jed



 

Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

[Chemical Engineer]

Jojo,

Thanks.  It is a very elegant and simple explanation (I guess that is why
it is called a singularity).   Einstein in his final years worked in this
area.  Hawking/Penrose should be thanked as well as all of the others now
working on it.  In truth, we have been surrounded by the process daily when
lightning strikes and electrical currents ebb and flow.  We have been given
a 3rd gift of Nuclear Energy, I hope we do better than we have with the
first two.  The nuclear discharge from a singularity is truly the stuff
universes are made of and we now have that power.  To that which much is
given, much is expected.  I hope we as a race live up to that expectation.

Godspeed

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

> **
> Stewart,  send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over.  I for
> one are very interested in looking at this new theory.
>
>
> Jojo
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Chemical Engineer 
> *To:* c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM
> *Subject:* [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag
>
> Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft
>
> My first instance of "1-8 keV" should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in
> the second usage)  and "A negatively charged singularity would feed
> preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles"  instead of negatively.
>
> Sorry for the confusion.
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer wrote:
>
>>  All,
>>
>>
>> I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum
>> reactor.  I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the
>> primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR.  May they,
>> along with Martin, RIP.
>>
>> There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission,
>> Fusion & Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation.  The first two can hopefully
>> be retired.
>>
>> Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea.  I weighed
>> heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at
>> the LHC.  I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary
>> to Arxiv (after I clean it up some).  I am going to follow up with some
>> calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math...
>>
>> It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono)
>>
>> Stewart D. Simonson
>> cheme...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:NIWeek 2012 video: Anomalous Heat Effects

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-09 02:00, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

Hello group,
This is from National Instruments' official Youtube Channel.


After watching it in its entirety (I admit I didn't before posting the 
link here) I can definitely say it's not a very informative video for 
long-time LENR followers and it understandably mostly focuses on how NI 
products are great for such applications.


Yet, I think for most of the audience it must have been quite a news 
that there still are researchers "studying cold fusion" and that the 
field is apparently being taken seriously by big names and NI.


I wonder if videos from other LENR segments (from Defkalion, Takahashi, 
Brillouin and other LENR researchers in the Big Physics panel) will be 
posted too. After watching some ones from the NI Youtube channel I'm 
suspecting this venue mostly serves as an advertising platform for NI 
and I doubt DGT, BEC, etc. went to NIWeek2012 to make presentations 
mostly about NI products. But I guess it could be the case, seeing what 
was discussed in Duncan's short oveview.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman,Video

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 05:05 PM 8/8/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
Feynman's account is at

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html
Infinite Energy description :

http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html
Papp demonstrating his engine with a dynonometer :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wZqDQ7Pjg 
The video is discussed at :

http://hutchisoneffect.ca/Academy_Video%20of%20Jimmy%20Sabori%27s%20Papp%20Engine%20Variants%20-%20PESWiki.htm

New Energy Congress member, and science advisor to PES Network,

Ken Rauen, who has had extensive direct involvement with the Joseph
Papp engine technology, says that what is shown below as a working device
is not Sabori's work, but that of Joseph Papp, and that Sabori's work is
not worth chasing. He provides some background in who's who in the field,
including some developments that are imminent. 

Re: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

[Jojo Jaro]

Stewart,  send it over to Vortex-L and many here will look it over.  I for one 
are very interested in looking at this new theory.


Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Chemical Engineer 
  To: c...@googlegroups.com ; vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:49 AM
  Subject: [Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag


  Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft


  My first instance of "1-8 keV" should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in 
the second usage)  and "A negatively charged singularity would feed 
preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles"  instead of negatively.


  Sorry for the confusion.


  On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer  wrote:

  All,


I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum 
reactor.  I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the 
primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR.  May they, along 
with Martin, RIP.


There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission, 
Fusion & Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation.  The first two can hopefully be 
retired.


Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea.  I weighed 
heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at the 
LHC.  I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary to 
Arxiv (after I clean it up some).  I am going to follow up with some 
calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math...


It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono)


Stewart D. Simonson
cheme...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[Jojo Jaro]

That is incorrect Ron.  A child of one US citizen does not automatically 
become a US citizen.  He has to choose which parent's  citizenship he wants 
when he reaches 21.  Besides, Stanley Ann Dunham was too young to have 
conferred US citizenship to Bambi when he was born.  And a Dual Citizen is 
classified automatically as NOT a Natural-Born US Citizen.


A child born out of 2 US citizens but born out of US soil, can be a US 
citizen but not a Natural-Born US Citizen


A child born in US soil, but to non-US citizens, may become a US citizen but 
not a Natural-Born US Citizen.


A child born in US soil, but to only 1 US citizen parent, must choose which 
citizenship he wants when he reaches 21.  He may choose both and become a 
Dual Citizen, but he is certainly NOT a Natural-Born US citizen.


But mere US citizenship does not qualify one to be president.  He has to be 
Natural-Born US citizen.  Which means a child of 2 US citizens and born on 
US soil.


One theory says that a Natural Born US Citizen is one wherein he does not 
have to take any special action to "get" his US citizenship.  If Bambi has 
to choose US Citizenship, then he is automatically not a Natural-Born US 
citizen.  And this would be the case with Bambi, because he was an 
Indonesian Citizen when he was a child.  But since, he was not yet 21 at 
that time, he did not have to make a specific choice.  When he reached 21, 
he should have made that choice.  If he did not, then he is still an Illegal 
Alien in this country.  But none of this can be resolved because 
criminal-in-chief has a "gag" order on all agencies and private entities to 
keep his records secret.  Question is, WHY?




Jojo



- Original Message - 
From: "Ron Wormus" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 2:28 AM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are 
crazy



As far as I know a child born to a US citizen is automatically also a
citizen regardless of location of birth.  I have grand daughters born in
Switzerland who have dual citizenship.
Ron

--On Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:31 PM -0700 MarkI-ZeroPoint
 wrote:




Good debate!  This is what freedom of speech is all about…



"His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US
citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that
they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason."



Agreed.   His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here),
so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning  to the USA
*permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be
a U.S. Citizen.  If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck
would…



I'm sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being
POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up
the "in case he wanted to become President someday" argument…
there is reason enough by just coming here.



If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child
to be a US citizen?



I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments
and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps
after the next election we'll find out?   Or not…



-Mark






From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we
are crazy



Straw Man argument.



First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all
births in the newspaper.  During that time, anyone can report a birth to
Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii.
Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth.  Funny
though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's
parents.



Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly
conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be
president.  That's a straw man.   His grandparents were not dumb and
knew the benefits of US citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to
be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is
good enough a reason.







But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still
secret.  He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone
call to release his vault BC.  Why hasn't he done it?  All your eloquent
reasons will not overcome this simple fact.



Jojo

RE: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad

[Craig Brown]

Thanks Frank - good to see more and more mainstream acceptance happening. I imagine it will take a lot more to persuade TIME magazine to come to the party.


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad
From: Frank Acland 
Date: Thu, August 09, 2012 9:59 am
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com

US News and World Report was once one of the big 3 US news magazines, along with Time and Newsweek. A few years ago, circulation declines let to the magazine going to a biweekly, or maybe even monthly publication, so it is not as big a name as it used to be -- but it would still be considered a mainstream publication. Best,FrankOn Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Akira Shirakawa  wrote: On 2012-08-08 19:08, Jed Rothwell wrote:  See:  http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2012/08/08/new-burst-of-energy-could-bring-cold-fusion-to-front-burnerHow popular / mainstream is that site?  And what about oilprice.com? I've read it cover some Rossi news a couple times over the past year, but it appears Celani's demo at NIWeek triggered their interested too:  http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Yet-Another-Successful-LENR-Device-Enters-the-Race.html  Cheers, S.A.  -- Frank AclandPublisher, E-Cat WorldAuthor, The Secret Power Beneath 

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Jouni Valkonen]

On 9 August 2012 02:12, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
> than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
> heat production.
>

Better, are you serious? This engine would immediately transform Earth
Civilization into Star Trek age (by 2014 into Type I and by 2050 even into
Type II civilization at Kardashev scale). With this engine, we could travel
into Mars in just six days and into nearby stars in one generation.

Although this is far better than any perpetual motion machine fancier has
ever hoped for, I am a big fan of this thing. Not that I would not think
that it is way too good to be true, but it feels just utterly good to take
some vacations from reality and go Rohner's web pages and dream a little
bit of fairy-tale world, where there are no scarcity from any material
needs.

Probably this is not real, because Rohner is religious and religion is
somewhat antithesis for being smart, creative and scientific. It is sad,
but that's the way it is. Same argument goes also for Rossi, btw.

I would say that currently our best shot is in Celani. It would be huge
boost for cold fusion research if he could make it replicable and that he
could present a first ever convincing demonstration of cold fusion
apparatus!

–Jouni

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman,Video

[Alan J Fletcher]

Feynman's account is at

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html
Infinite Energy description :

http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html
Papp demonstrating his engine with a dynonometer :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wZqDQ7Pjg 

[Vo]:NIWeek 2012 video: Anomalous Heat Effects

[Akira Shirakawa]

Hello group,
This is from National Instruments' official Youtube Channel.


-> Youtube link: http://goo.gl/WLwhZ


Anomalous Heat Effects

Listen as Dr. Duncan and Greg Morrow talk about our need to expand our 
experimental approach to develop more research on anomalous heat 
effects. These effects have been referred to as 'cold fusion' and 
'low-energy nuclear reactions' in the past, but these names imply an 
understanding of the physical origin of these anomalous effects that in 
fact does not yet exist. NI LabVIEW is at the heart of each of these 
experiments that may help develop and unravel the mysteries of the many 
theories.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine - Feynman

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 04:12 PM 8/8/2012, Axil Axil wrote:


> A first hand eye witness to the  Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill
fated demo

> said

> Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he
pulled the

> power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the
Papp

> engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a
rod the

> killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to
protect

> Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science
community.

Feynman's account is at

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html

Re: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad

[Frank Acland]

US News and World Report was once one of the big 3 US news magazines, along
with Time and Newsweek. A few years ago, circulation declines let to the
magazine going to a biweekly, or maybe even monthly publication, so it is
not as big a name as it used to be -- but it would still be considered a
mainstream publication.

Best,

Frank

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

> On 2012-08-08 19:08, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>> See:
>>
>> http://www.usnews.com/news/**blogs/at-the-edge/2012/08/08/**
>> new-burst-of-energy-could-**bring-cold-fusion-to-front-**burner
>>
>>
> How popular / mainstream is that site?
>
> And what about oilprice.com? I've read it cover some Rossi news a couple
> times over the past year, but it appears Celani's demo at NIWeek triggered
> their interested too:
>
> http://oilprice.com/**Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-**
> Power/Yet-Another-Successful-**LENR-Device-Enters-the-Race.**html
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>


-- 
Frank Acland
Publisher, E-Cat World 
Author, The Secret Power Beneath 

Re: [Vo]:Celani's recent work - great SEM pics

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-08 22:20, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

Oops, my mistake.  This paper is about the work up to April 2012, and
uses a larger reactor than what was shown at NIWeek…  -mi


I think it's still relevant in this case, however. The NIWeek Celani 
demo appears to be just a simpler, smaller, stripped down portable 
version using the same active material (pre-treated ISOTAN44).


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Report in US News not bad

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-08 19:08, Jed Rothwell wrote:

See:

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2012/08/08/new-burst-of-energy-could-bring-cold-fusion-to-front-burner



How popular / mainstream is that site?

And what about oilprice.com? I've read it cover some Rossi news a couple 
times over the past year, but it appears Celani's demo at NIWeek 
triggered their interested too:


http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Yet-Another-Successful-LENR-Device-Enters-the-Race.html

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[hellokevin]

Jojo:
 
I never thought I'd see 0bama's birth certificate debated here on Vortex.  
You've made it a fascinating place to visit for more than one reason.  
 
Regarding #2, who can blame 0bama for holding back his birth certificate when 
he hasn't been forced to do so?  This begs the question of who forces him to do 
so...
 
Regarding #1, it seems so simple.  It was the responsibility of the Supreme 
Court of the US to determine his eligibility, per the 20th amendment:  
 
 
Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the 
President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall 
become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time 
fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have 
failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a 
President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the 
case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have 
qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which 
one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly 
until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.
 
Notice that the order of events is spelled out: if the President elect shall 
have failed to qualify. That means the qualification takes place AFTER the 
General Public votes, and even AFTER the Electoral College. It also shows 
explicitly that the ELECTION RESULTS ARE SUBORDINATE TO QUALIFICATION. 
Further resources and copies of the constitution: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentieth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
 
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html 
 
It is the US Supreme Court who threw our republic into this constitutional 
tailspin.  0bama did what any selfish politician would do.  But Supreme Court 
members are given lifetime appointments so they can  be free from the political 
ramifications of their decisions.  Their JOB is to uphold the constitution.  
Period.  They didn't do it.  They threw this republic down the drain so that 
they could enjoy warm smiles at Washington DC cocktail parties.  
 
You may enjoy this birth certificate thread I started on Intrade.  It is the 
most-read thread in Intrade's  history.    In particular, I wonder how you 
would answer the hypotheticals I asked about Caesar crossing the Rubicon?  
 
https://bb.intrade.com/intradeForum/posts/list/570/2279.page#37978
 
Kevmo

 

--- On Wed, 8/8/12, Jojo Jaro  wrote:


From: Jojo Jaro 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: Wednesday, August 8, 2012, 3:15 AM


Michele, a Natural Born US citizen must fulfill 2 things:

1.  Must be born to two US citizen parents.
2.  Must be born in US soil.

Surely bambi does not qualify for number 1.  His alleged father was not a US 
citizen

Second, there is significant question as to where he was actually born.  He 
refuses to release his original vault BC.  All we have is a poorly 
photoshopped copy of his BC, which is surely a fake.


Jojo



- Original Message - 
From: "Michele Comitini" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are 
crazy


Jojo,

I know US president must be born on US soil.
I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was
eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time.
Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we
know wikipedia is far from complete.

mic



2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro :
> Michele, two things:
>
> First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963.  Stanley Ann
> Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that
> time.
>
> Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President.  The
> founding fathers specifically included "Natural Born" U.S. citizenship as 
> a
> qualification for being POTUS.  I trust you know the difference between a
> U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen.  Even if bambi was a U.S.
> citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified
> unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen.
>
>
>
>
> Jojo
>
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Michele Comitini"
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are
> crazy
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen
>
>
>
>
> 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint :
>>
>> Good debate!  This is what freedom of speech is all about…
>>
>>
>>
>> “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship.
>> No
>> conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their
>> grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.”
>>
>>
>>
>> Agreed.   His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), 
>> so
>> it certainly is likely that *i

Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect

[Jed Rothwell]

David Roberson  wrote:


> OK, so some engineers and technical people did expect a pretty large
> volume of PC sales.
>

Yup. They made it happen. They risked inventing cheap printers, for
example, hoping there would be a mass market for them.


  Too bad you did not act on your assumption or you might be another of the
> billionaires on record.
>

I did the best I could! I did okay. In a boom like that, there are as many
way to lose money as there are to make it.

If cold fusion starts to boom, remember that. Look at solar cells now.

I stayed clear of the dot-com boom because every time I looked a company I
thought to myself, "I could do that easily. If I can do it, any competent
programmer can, so where is the competitive advantage?" I was right about
most of them, but way wrong about Amazon! I should have bought their stock.
I know nothing about the stock market, so I steer clear of it. The thing
is, I thought WordPerfect was a lot better than Microsoft Word. They are
all but dead and gone so I guess product quality is not the right metric.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Axil Axil]

I am at the beginning of my study of the Papp effect so I will answer you
as I verity the info that is out there.

In the Tesla Video, McKubre said that Bob Rohner took the engine completely
apart in the middle of a demo and said it was totally clean of fraud.

The longest that Bob Rohner saw the engine run was a week as told by
McKubre. McKubre's endorsement was very strong and he virtually assured
that no fraud was involved.

>From a systems engineering standpoint, it is a far better energy system
than the Rossi reactor because high efficiency is possible without high
heat production.


Cheers:Axil


On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 6:54 PM,  wrote:

> Axil,
>
> In case you are familiar with the history of this, I have a few questions -
>
> Who invited Papp to do the test at Cal Tech?
> How long did the engine continue to work after the power was removed?
> If so, could it have been running on battery, or some other storage unit?
> Was any evidence found in the debris that indicated fraud?
> How has McKubre tested the engine?
>
> -- Lou Pagnucco
>
> Axil wrote:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8&feature=player_detailpage
> >
> >
> > Rohnermachine.com
> >
> > Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the
> > development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder
> > horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his
> version
> > of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos.
> >
> > The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed  above.
> > In
> > it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp
> > technology.
> >
> > Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking
> > which are interesting.
> >
> > The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction
> > in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike.
> >
> > At 1: 03 into the long video,  McKubre states his position as an advocate
> > of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre
> > sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his
> > initial interest in the engine.
> >
> > A first hand eye witness to the  Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo
> > said
> > Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled
> the
> > power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp
> > engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the
> > killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect
> > Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community.
> >
> > As a personal opinion,  McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind
> > and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction.
> >
> >
> > Cheers:   Axil
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
> >
> >> Axil,
> >>
> >> I am not acquainted with this engine.
> >>
> >> You wrote -
> >>
> >> " After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their
> >> elasticity."
> >>
> >> Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition"
> >>
> >> Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)?
> >>
> >> Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades?
> >> If so, have RF-emissions been characterized?
> >>
> >> Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the
> >> phenomenon can be observed better?
> >>
> >> I would be interested in answers to any of these questions
> >> - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect.
> >>
> >> -- Lou Pagnucco
> >>
> >> Axil^2 wrote:
> >> > *Noble Gas Plasma Engine *
> >> >
> >> > In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his
> >> > “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”.
> >> >
> >> > A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and
> >> > xenon)
> >> > fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage
> >> > discharge
> >> > in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston.
> >> >
> >> > This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion
> >> > occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement.
> >> After
> >> > the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume
> >> and
> >> > density, and the cycle is repeated.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour .
> >> >
> >> > Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with
> >> upper
> >> > end modifications.
> >> >
> >> > Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders,
> >> the
> >> > engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower.
> >> The
> >> > inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge
> >> each
> >> > cylinder every sixty thousand miles.
> >> >
> >> > Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to
> >> representatives
> >> > of
> >> > the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the
> >> > demonstration, the Volvo e

Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect

[David Roberson]

OK, so some engineers and technical people did expect a pretty large volume of 
PC sales.  Too bad you did not act on your assumption or you might be another 
of the billionaires on record.  I would guess that you may have thought that 
the volume would be enormous, but were not sure.  Many of us are in that camp.

I was in the radio communications world at the time and stood by watching as 
these machines took over.  I would hate to make the same mistake when LENR 
takes off.  We are both on record expecting these devices to become incredibly 
important and widespread in the near future.  I hope to invest at the right 
time if I can only determine where.

I agree, the wondrous advancement in hard drive technology as well as device 
speed and power consumption made a lot of difference.  I still have an old ATT 
computer to stare at that had a hard drive that would not even hold one modern 
program.  The darn thing cost twice as much as a new one today that is millions 
of times more powerful.  But the old boy did some useful work.  I used that old 
ATT upstairs  to design the first practical EAS receiver device that now is 
seen everywhere (Ultramax).  My model matched the actual operation to a 
remarkable degree and made the company I was working with very wealthy.

I have noticed that large companies tend to suppress innovation, particularly 
when it involves significant risk of capital.  The brave engineers are usually 
clamoring to move forward only to be punished by management that is afraid of 
change.  I found myself in that position on many occasions and when we overcame 
the inertia we generated many successful products.

I could go on for a long time on this subject, but will only mention one more.  
I was in technical charge of a large group that designed all of the receivers 
and synthesizers for a company that wanted to keep their second market position 
because it was safer and less expensive.  The large company in the field 
designed a new radio that had very good specifications and performance.  The 
internal product planning group was lagging behind as usual before the new 
requirements were given to engineering.  In my frustration, I just handed a 
manual of that new product to one of my new engineers who was ready to begin 
his work and told him to make one like that.  To this day he teases me about 
this but the specifications were exactly the same.

Working for startups has great rewards as well as risks.  Working for 
established large companies has less of both.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 4:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect


David Roberson  wrote:


I rather suspect that HP did not think that they could make a major profit in 
this new field.



That is somewhat true . . . but they were not stupid. They later jumped in in 
plenty of time to make money. The early history of microcomputers is well 
documented. You can learn what they said, and did.


 

  No one estimated the future potential of small computers at that time.



That is incorrect. I know of at least three people who did: Bill Gates, Steve 
Jobs, and me.


Okay, there were thousands of others.


Seriously, the rapid increase in sales did not surprise me a bit. Only two 
things have surprised me about the development of small computers:


1. The tremendous increase in the size of hard disks. The price/performance has 
improved much more than microprocessors or Internet bandwidth. NHK recently 
reported that there are now more bytes of data recorded than there are grains 
of sand on all the beaches of earth. That's astounding!


2. The lack of progress in operating system software. Windows is not much 
better than Data General RDOS, circa 1980. A modern laptop is nothing but at 
minicomputer with a bag on it, and I don't mean that in a good way.


In the book I wrote:

"A personal computer is essentially a 1979 minicomputer with a flashy but 
unreliable operating system grafted onto it. Programmers in 1979 were able to 
master personal computers in a few hours, and to this day personal computers 
have no functions or capabilities that would baffle a programmer from that era."


A "programmer from that era" meaning myself, obviously.


That is not quite true. I am impressed by voice input. I am astounded by 
robotics such as Google's self-driving automobile, and the Mars Curiosity 
rover. That stuff, by golly, makes you realize this is the 21st century.

- Jed



 

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[pagnucco]

Axil,

In case you are familiar with the history of this, I have a few questions -

Who invited Papp to do the test at Cal Tech?
How long did the engine continue to work after the power was removed?
If so, could it have been running on battery, or some other storage unit?
Was any evidence found in the debris that indicated fraud?
How has McKubre tested the engine?

-- Lou Pagnucco

Axil wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8&feature=player_detailpage
>
>
> Rohnermachine.com
>
> Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the
> development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder
> horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version
> of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos.
>
> The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed  above.
> In
> it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp
> technology.
>
> Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking
> which are interesting.
>
> The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction
> in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike.
>
> At 1: 03 into the long video,  McKubre states his position as an advocate
> of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre
> sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his
> initial interest in the engine.
>
> A first hand eye witness to the  Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo
> said
> Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the
> power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp
> engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the
> killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect
> Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community.
>
> As a personal opinion,  McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind
> and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction.
>
>
> Cheers:   Axil
>
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Axil,
>>
>> I am not acquainted with this engine.
>>
>> You wrote -
>>
>> " After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their
>> elasticity."
>>
>> Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition"
>>
>> Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)?
>>
>> Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades?
>> If so, have RF-emissions been characterized?
>>
>> Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the
>> phenomenon can be observed better?
>>
>> I would be interested in answers to any of these questions
>> - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect.
>>
>> -- Lou Pagnucco
>>
>> Axil^2 wrote:
>> > *Noble Gas Plasma Engine *
>> >
>> > In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his
>> > “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”.
>> >
>> > A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and
>> > xenon)
>> > fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage
>> > discharge
>> > in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston.
>> >
>> > This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion
>> > occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement.
>> After
>> > the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume
>> and
>> > density, and the cycle is repeated.
>> >
>> >
>> > Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour .
>> >
>> > Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with
>> upper
>> > end modifications.
>> >
>> > Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders,
>> the
>> > engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower.
>> The
>> > inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge
>> each
>> > cylinder every sixty thousand miles.
>> >
>> > Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to
>> representatives
>> > of
>> > the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the
>> > demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and
>> > another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from
>> > apparent neutron radiation from his engine.
>> >
>> > There were indications that such an engine could provide its own
>> > electrical
>> > power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by
>> definition
>> > an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart
>> of
>> > the
>> > Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge
>> clusters
>> > which provide the energy to expand the gases.
>> >
>> > The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are
>> > 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431
>> for
>> > Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for
>> Inert
>> > Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful
>> Work
>>

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine

[Axil Axil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKjJU8&feature=player_detailpage


Rohnermachine.com

Mike and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the
development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder
horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version
of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos.

The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed  above. In
it, McKubre is bearing witness as Mike Rohner rambles on about Papp
technology.

Mike Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking
which are interesting.

The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction
in a 20 minute private evaluation with Mike.

At 1: 03 into the long video,  McKubre states his position as an advocate
of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre
sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his
initial interest in the engine.

A first hand eye witness to the  Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said
Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the
power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp
engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the
killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect
Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community.

As a personal opinion,  McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind
and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction.


Cheers:   Axil

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 2:30 PM,  wrote:

> Axil,
>
> I am not acquainted with this engine.
>
> You wrote -
>
> " After several thousand hours the gases lose structure and their
> elasticity."
>
> Does this mean there are transmutations that change gas composition"
>
> Has anyone look at the ash (both gas and cylinder walls)?
>
> Is there dielectric breakdown during ignition with electron cascades?
> If so, have RF-emissions been characterized?
>
> Has anyone tried reproducing the effect outside of an engine where the
> phenomenon can be observed better?
>
> I would be interested in answers to any of these questions
> - especially since McKubre believes it's probably a real nuclear effect.
>
> -- Lou Pagnucco
>
> Axil^2 wrote:
> > *Noble Gas Plasma Engine *
> >
> > In the 1980s, Joseph Papp was granted US Patent No. 3,670,494 for his
> > “Noble Gas Plasma Engine”.
> >
> > A mixture of recycled inert gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, and
> > xenon)
> > fills a piston cylinder These gases are exposed to a high-voltage
> > discharge
> > in this sealed cylinder capped with a piston.
> >
> > This spark causes the gases to expand violently though no combustion
> > occurs. Mechanical energy is delivered by the piston's displacement.
> After
> > the spark, the gases immediately collapses to their original volume and
> > density, and the cycle is repeated.
> >
> >
> > Replacing these gases cost 15 cents per operating hour .
> >
> > Papp's first prototype was a simple 90-horsepower Volvo engine with upper
> > end modifications.
> >
> > Attaching the Volvo pistons to pistons fitting the sealed cylinders, the
> > engine worked perfectly with an output of three hundred horsepower. The
> > inventor claimed it would cost about twenty five dollars to charge each
> > cylinder every sixty thousand miles.
> >
> > Papp had arranged for a demonstration of Volvo engine to representatives
> > of
> > the Stanford Research Institute. Unfortunately the day before the
> > demonstration, the Volvo engine exploded. One person was killed, and
> > another person was injured. Papp himself is believed to have died from
> > apparent neutron radiation from his engine.
> >
> > There were indications that such an engine could provide its own
> > electrical
> > power and being a closed system, require no fuel. It is not by definition
> > an electromagnetic engine, however. It is believed that at the heart of
> > the
> > Papp engine is the development of high-density electrical charge clusters
> > which provide the energy to expand the gases.
> >
> > The Papp technology is now in the public domain, Other US patents are
> > 5319336, 4151431, 3670494, 4046167 - Mechanical Accumulator, 3680431 for
> > Method and Means for Generating Explosive Forces, and 4,428,193 for Inert
> > Gas Fuel, Fuel Preparation Apparatus and System for Extracting Useful
> Work
> > from the Fuel.
> >
> > There are several groups working on versions of the Papp engine. It seems
> > to keep recycling through the new energy community.
> >
> > Jim Kettner has incorporated a company called “inteligentry, LTD” to
> > simply
> > and optimized the Papp process. He will license his prototype for mass
> > production shortly uses the Rossi type “try it before you buy it money
> > back
> > guaranty”.
> >
> > It looks to me like the Papp engine uses the same basic electron
> screening
> > LERN principles as the Rossi reactor. In the Papp engine, helium is 

Re: [Vo]:Storms talk at NPA-19 video

[Terry Blanton]

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Ruby  wrote:
> Thanks for the comments.

Ruby,

Excellent!  One thing I found interesting is that Ed did not speak of
CANR (chemically assisted nuclear reaction).  I wonder if his new
crack theory has changed his view?

T

Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect

[Jed Rothwell]

David Roberson  wrote:

I rather suspect that HP did not think that they could make a major profit
> in this new field.
>

That is somewhat true . . . but they were not stupid. They later jumped in
in plenty of time to make money. The early history of microcomputers is
well documented. You can learn what they said, and did.



>   No one estimated the future potential of small computers at that time.
>

That is incorrect. I know of at least three people who did: Bill Gates,
Steve Jobs, and me.

Okay, there were thousands of others.

Seriously, the rapid increase in sales did not surprise me a bit. Only two
things have surprised me about the development of small computers:

1. The tremendous increase in the size of hard disks. The price/performance
has improved much more than microprocessors or Internet bandwidth. NHK
recently reported that there are now more bytes of data recorded than there
are grains of sand on all the beaches of earth. That's astounding!

2. The lack of progress in operating system software. Windows is not much
better than Data General RDOS, circa 1980. A modern laptop is nothing but
at minicomputer with a bag on it, and I don't mean that in a good way.

In the book I wrote:

"A personal computer is essentially a 1979 minicomputer with a flashy but
unreliable operating system grafted onto it. Programmers in 1979 were able
to master personal computers in a few hours, and to this day personal
computers have no functions or capabilities that would baffle a programmer
from that era."

A "programmer from that era" meaning myself, obviously.

That is not quite true. I am impressed by voice input. I am astounded by
robotics such as Google's self-driving automobile, and the Mars Curiosity
rover. That stuff, by golly, makes you realize this is the 21st century.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Celani's recent work - great SEM pics

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Oops, my mistake.  This paper is about the work up to April 2012, and uses a
larger reactor than what was shown at NIWeek.  -mi

 

From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:11 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Celani's recent work - great SEM pics

 

There are some real nice SEM piccys here:

 

http://www.iscmns.org/work10/Celani.pdf

 

And also very detailed drawings of the reactor.

 

-Mark

 

[Vo]:Celani's recent work - great SEM pics

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

There are some real nice SEM piccys here:

 

http://www.iscmns.org/work10/Celani.pdf

 

And also very detailed drawings of the reactor.

 

-Mark

 

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012 + NANOR Status

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 10:16 AM 8/8/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Please watch this from minute
15:00 onward:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw

There's a rough transcript at

http://ecatnews.com/?p=2291 
Photo of some attendees and ID's ... including Alexandros Xanthoulis
(Defkalion GT founder) 
A lot of comments (cautiously) optimistic on Celani and Hagelstein, now
totally against Rossi.
Nicholas Payne

Reply 
August 8, 2012 at 6:09 pm
I just emailed his [Hagelstein's] secretary Ms Davco who says the NANOR
is out being tested elsewhere, but he hopes to have a better demo of it
at MIT later this year.

Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect

[David Roberson]

I rather suspect that HP did not think that they could make a major profit in 
this new field.  No one estimated the future potential of small computers at 
that time.  Remember the IBM decision to not own their PC operating system due 
to low volume projections.  The first cellular telephones were intended for 
vehicle operation but now the vast majority are handheld.  Few people have the 
ability to see into the future far enough to put their careers on the line by 
suggesting that a major push be directed into the unknown.

We are seeing the same process unfold in our LENR field.  No one currently 
builds these types of devices so none of the big boys are willing to take an 
expensive chance.  Once products become available openly and proven and 
purchase volumes accelerate they will jump in like a pack of wolves on a 
buffalo.  We should see this action most likely within the next year by my 
estimate if we can get Rossi or DGT to cooperate.

It might not be a bad idea to keep some investment funds available for the big 
ride that is surely coming.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:54 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect


  

Ron Kita wrote:


  
I read Woz and  most recently  I-Woz,  and major corporations dismissed 
Apple on several
  
accounts.  I think it was an HP executive who said that"there is no 
market for 
  
a personal computer".  
  


I think that was the head of DEC.

Wozniak offered HP the IP to the apple, because he designed it while
working for them. They said no thanks, you can have it. Woz hadnothing but 
good things to say about HP is his autobiography. Thecompany has a 
reputation for being nice to employees, and fair.Perhaps they 
underestimated the market but my guess is they alsowanted to give a 
20-something engineer a chance to succeed on hisown.

- Jed

  
 

[Vo]:Re: Schrodinger Cat out of the Bag

[Chemical Engineer]

Just a couple of quick corrections to my previous draft

My first instance of "1-8 keV" should have read 1-8 TeV (it was correct in
the second usage)  and "A negatively charged singularity would feed
preferentially from POSITIVELY charged particles"  instead of negatively.

Sorry for the confusion.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Chemical Engineer wrote:

> All,
>
>
> I understand that National Instruments is now calling this a quantum
> reactor.  I have attached a draft of what I believe, without a doubt is the
> primary Nuclear process formerly known as Cold Fusion or LENR.  May they,
> along with Martin, RIP.
>
> There are three primary forms of Nuclear energy in the world, Fission,
> Fusion & Singularity (Black Hole) Evaporation.  The first two can hopefully
> be retired.
>
> Excuse the quality of the draft but you will get the idea.  I weighed
> heavily on a recent CERN study by Chan on black hole creation concerns at
> the LHC.  I would like to have somebody sponsor me on publishing my summary
> to Arxiv (after I clean it up some).  I am going to follow up with some
> calculations once I brush up on my particle and quantum physics math...
>
> It is a beautiful day, don't let it slip away (U2 Bono)
>
> Stewart D. Simonson
> cheme...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention

[Terry Blanton]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ron Kita  wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> This was the  financial cable show  CNBC Squawk and Joe Kernan, host,  made
> the comment at 7:10AM.
> Not sure If there is an on-line transcript.

There is, at the site I referenced.  It was obviously done in haste
since they translated the comment to "coal fusion". :-)

T

Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-08 21:21, Jed Rothwell wrote:


Nice photos! I like where it says "HOT! Do not touch." Maybe I will link
to this.


I forgot this photo from PESN [1] too:

http://goo.gl/uh0Je

I think you already know every person there, but from left to right they 
should be:


Alexandros Xanthoulis (Defkalion GT founder)
Frank Gordon (SPAWAR)
Andrea Aparo (Ansaldo Energia spa)
Peter Hagelstein (MIT)
James Truchard (National Instruments co-founder and CEO)
Michael McKubre (SRI International)
Robert Godes (Brillouin Energy Corp.)
Stefano Concezzi (National Instruments – Big Science director)
Robert Duncan (University of Missouri)

Cheers,
S.A.


[1] Original article: 
http://pesn.com/2012/08/08/9602156_Mainstream_Coverage_of_Fleischmanns_Death_Mentions_Nothing_of_Technology_Nearing_Marketplace/

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Peter Gluck]

dear Jones,

Pisntelli (and FYI the Defkalion process) does not work with deuterium- not
at all. It is rather difficult to determine the transmutation products at
the Piantelli process.

DGTG in  their process they are using very good analytical techniques but
it is difficult to calculate the correlations due to the extreme complexity
of the raections. Both transmutaions and nucleosynthesis takes place and
both contribute to the heat energy.

Peter

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>  Peter,
>
> ** **
>
> Can you cite a Piantelli paper where deuterium was absent, but where the
> transmutation products were well-correlated with excess energy?
>
> ** **
>
> I think not. This is the same problem that Krivit finds with the lame
> correlation of helium to excess energy in Pd-D. I’m not saying that Krivit
> is correct on that, but he does make valid points about both the deficiency
> and sloppiness of reputed evidence. 
>
> ** **
>
> QM by itself – should provide measureable transmutation products,
> especially if there is deuterium tunneling or Oppenheimer stripping. Helium
> is ubiquitous to the extent it should always be seen. No one doubts some of
> both is there almost every time it is looked for.
>
> ** **
>
> Problem is, the occurrence is miniscule, or either not well measured in
> proportionality, and in isotope mix, or is thousands of times too low to
> account for the thermal heat. Finding transmutation means nothing by
> itself, but measuring the mass of these products, and isotope ratio, mean
> everything.
>
> ** **
>
> Bottom line – because of quantum mechanics alone the experimenter should
> find measurable transmutation and helium almost every time that hydrogen
> has been exposed to electric fields over time - but QM alone is responsible
> for them and in tiny amounts statistically - and thus the thermal gain
> which is seen in the run is most likely unrelated.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Peter Gluck 
>
> ** **
>
> Dreaded or not dreaded, the process is nuclear. Just take a look to
> Piantelli's opuses or to the paradigm changing presentation of John
> Hadjichristos today at NI Week.
>
> Fortunately it is mildly and intelligently nuclear.
>
> ** **
>
> Peter
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Akira Shirakawa 
> wrote:
>
> On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote:
>
> Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names
> cold-fusion or LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit
> admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even
> close to commensurate with the excess heat produced.
>
> ** **
>
> Or perhaps because "LENR" is not a very good acronym and contains the
> dreaded N-word.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
>
> Cluj, Romania
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>
> ** **
>



-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek

[Jed Rothwell]

Regarding:

http://goo.gl/c8zsz

Click on images for full-sized pix.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek

[Jed Rothwell]

Akira Shirakawa  wrote:

>
> Celani's /paper/ is more like a lab report rather than a proper paper, in
> my opinion. As far as I understand he will make a better version at a later
> time.
>

I'll just change out the paper in the library.



> There are two non-watermarked high resolution photos here you could use:
> http://goo.gl/c8zsz
>
>
Nice photos! I like where it says "HOT! Do not touch." Maybe I will link to
this.



> As for NIWeek, there still are a few LENR presentations planned. Maybe
> we'll see some videos of them in the official National Instruments Youtube
> video channel. Either way, it's not over yet.
>

When it ends I will update this News item. I will probably change the tense
from "will bring" the demonstration to "brought."

I can always change these News items. Or expand them. It is a piece of cake
with WordPress. I do not feel they have to remain static, as originally
published.

- Jed

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:e-cat at 1200°C

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

Rossi sez:

...

> To Whom it may interest:
> After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another
> Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the
> same of the test made on July 16th. The power of the Hot Cat is 10 kW. The
> maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation
> will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test
> has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked
> after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an
> indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of
> the industrial plants.
> We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time
> we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.

Sounds good - as far as sounding good goes.

Wish we knew how independent these "third party" validators realy are.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek

[Michele Comitini]

Jed,

You will meet Celani in Korea.  Ask him the detailed report he promised.

mic
Il giorno 08/ago/2012 20:26, "Akira Shirakawa" 
ha scritto:

> On 2012-08-08 20:02, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>> Written in a heck of a hurry:
>>
>> http://lenr-canr.org/**wordpress/?p=1330
>>
>> If anyone thinks I should add something such as a link speak up now.
>>
>
> Celani's /paper/ is more like a lab report rather than a proper paper, in
> my opinion. As far as I understand he will make a better version at a later
> time.
>
> There are two non-watermarked high resolution photos here you could use:
> http://goo.gl/c8zsz
>
> You can see that the printed slides visible in these photos show text from
> the paper, which was probably originally supposed to be a presentation with
> charts, etc. rather than something of traditional scientific value (which
> might explain why it's so hard to read despite it being rather simple in
> content).
>
> Daniele Passerini added some information about Celani's demo here (google
> translated): http://goo.gl/v4Opj
>
> As for NIWeek, there still are a few LENR presentations planned. Maybe
> we'll see some videos of them in the official National Instruments Youtube
> video channel. Either way, it's not over yet.
>
> I'm also expecting (my speculation) Celani to write at a later time a full
> test report of his demonstrative cell which apparently never stopped
> working during this NIWeek event.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jones Beene]

Peter,

 

Can you cite a Piantelli paper where deuterium was absent, but where the
transmutation products were well-correlated with excess energy?

 

I think not. This is the same problem that Krivit finds with the lame
correlation of helium to excess energy in Pd-D. I'm not saying that Krivit
is correct on that, but he does make valid points about both the deficiency
and sloppiness of reputed evidence. 

 

QM by itself - should provide measureable transmutation products, especially
if there is deuterium tunneling or Oppenheimer stripping. Helium is
ubiquitous to the extent it should always be seen. No one doubts some of
both is there almost every time it is looked for.

 

Problem is, the occurrence is miniscule, or either not well measured in
proportionality, and in isotope mix, or is thousands of times too low to
account for the thermal heat. Finding transmutation means nothing by itself,
but measuring the mass of these products, and isotope ratio, mean
everything.

 

Bottom line - because of quantum mechanics alone the experimenter should
find measurable transmutation and helium almost every time that hydrogen has
been exposed to electric fields over time - but QM alone is responsible for
them and in tiny amounts statistically - and thus the thermal gain which is
seen in the run is most likely unrelated.

 

 

From: Peter Gluck 

 

Dreaded or not dreaded, the process is nuclear. Just take a look to
Piantelli's opuses or to the paradigm changing presentation of John
Hadjichristos today at NI Week.

Fortunately it is mildly and intelligently nuclear.

 

Peter

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Akira Shirakawa 
wrote:

On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote:

Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names
cold-fusion or LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit
admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even
close to commensurate with the excess heat produced.

 

Or perhaps because "LENR" is not a very good acronym and contains the
dreaded N-word.

Cheers,
S.A.





 

-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck

Cluj, Romania

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

 

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Peter Gluck]

Dreaded or not dreaded, the process is nuclear. Just take a look to
Piantelli's opuses or to the paradigm changing presentation of John
Hadjichristos today at NI Week.
Fortunately it is mildly and intelligently nuclear.

Peter

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

> On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote:
>
>> Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names
>> cold-fusion or LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit
>> admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even
>> close to commensurate with the excess heat produced.
>>
>
> Or perhaps because "LENR" is not a very good acronym and contains the
> dreaded N-word.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[Ron Wormus]

As far as I know a child born to a US citizen is automatically also a 
citizen regardless of location of birth.  I have grand daughters born in 
Switzerland who have dual citizenship.

Ron

--On Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:31 PM -0700 MarkI-ZeroPoint 
 wrote:





Good debate!  This is what freedom of speech is all about…



"His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US
citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that
they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason."



Agreed.   His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here),
so it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning  to the USA
*permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be
a U.S. Citizen.  If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck
would…



I'm sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being
POTUS someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up
the "in case he wanted to become President someday" argument…
there is reason enough by just coming here.



If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child
to be a US citizen?



I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments
and evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps
after the next election we'll find out?   Or not…



-Mark






From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we
are crazy



Straw Man argument.



First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all
births in the newspaper.  During that time, anyone can report a birth to
Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii.
Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth.  Funny
though cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's
parents.



Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly
conspired to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be
president.  That's a straw man.   His grandparents were not dumb and
knew the benefits of US citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to
be invoked, only that they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is
good enough a reason.







But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still
secret.  He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone
call to release his vault BC.  Why hasn't he done it?  All your eloquent
reasons will not overcome this simple fact.



Jojo

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-08 20:23, Jones Beene wrote:

Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names cold-fusion or 
LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit admission that NI 
has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even close to commensurate with the 
excess heat produced.


Or perhaps because "LENR" is not a very good acronym and contains the 
dreaded N-word.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:My report on NIWeek

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-08 20:02, Jed Rothwell wrote:

Written in a heck of a hurry:

http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?p=1330

If anyone thinks I should add something such as a link speak up now.


Celani's /paper/ is more like a lab report rather than a proper paper, 
in my opinion. As far as I understand he will make a better version at a 
later time.


There are two non-watermarked high resolution photos here you could use: 
http://goo.gl/c8zsz


You can see that the printed slides visible in these photos show text 
from the paper, which was probably originally supposed to be a 
presentation with charts, etc. rather than something of traditional 
scientific value (which might explain why it's so hard to read despite 
it being rather simple in content).


Daniele Passerini added some information about Celani's demo here 
(google translated): http://goo.gl/v4Opj


As for NIWeek, there still are a few LENR presentations planned. Maybe 
we'll see some videos of them in the official National Instruments 
Youtube video channel. Either way, it's not over yet.


I'm also expecting (my speculation) Celani to write at a later time a 
full test report of his demonstrative cell which apparently never 
stopped working during this NIWeek event.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:e-cat at 1200°C

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 12:14 PM 8/7/2012, Michele Comitini wrote:
Hot summer for Rossi.

http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679&cpage=3#comment-296311

Also :

http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679&cpage=3#comment-297077

Andrea Rossi 

August 7th, 2012 at 4:53 PM 
To Whom it may interest:
After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today
another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have
been the same of the test made on July 16th. The power of the Hot Cat is
10 kW. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this
validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published
soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that
we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed
by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification
processes of the industrial plants.
We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second
time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same
results.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
and
Jake Di Vita 

August 8th, 2012 at 9:57 AM 
Dear Andrea Rossi,
Is there a theoretical limit in your mind to the potential temperature of
the Hot Cat?
Andrea Rossi 

August 8th, 2012 at 10:04 AM 
Dear Jake Di Vita:
There is a limit due to the fact that nickel melts at 1455 Celsius
degrees, but we will have to heat water, so the actual limit will be 600
Celsius when we will go to make steam. At 600 Celsius the efficiency will
be around 50%. Wre are working on this, now, with our Friends of Swedish
Siemens Friends. When we told them we reached 1 200 Celsius they became
lyric.
Warm Regards,
Andrea

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jones Beene]

Note that CEO Dr James Truchard is no newcomer to the field, with his interest 
beginning in 1989. Can't go back much further than that.

Note also that the good Doctor, at 16:53 recommends dropping the names 
cold-fusion or LENR in favor of "quantum reactor" ... to me this is tacit 
admission that NI has seen no evidence of nuclear reactions which are even 
close to commensurate with the excess heat produced. 

They have been involved with Rossi, Defkalion, and Celani so that makes me 
think this fellow has a lot of inside information to share - and we should 
encourage him to do a history of his involvement.



-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell 
Akira Shirakawa wrote:

> Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw


That's great!

Finally, we are seeing some real progress. I think I'll put in the News 
section at LENR-CANR.org. If I have time today . . .

I'll put a link to Krivit's report as well.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Communicating cold fusion needs more than words

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

Ruby,

I think your assessment of the information situation is a good one.

The only thing I would tack on to your suggestion would be that
digital artists with science backgrounds be employed. They DO exist.

If I had the time I would avail my services. Unfortunately, I'm
currently swamped with other priorities. For one thing, my own website
is in dire need of a major overhaul. I'm still in the middle of
wrestling with that task.

To all you youngsters out there, seeking employment in the digital
communication arts fields looks to be be a promising future. There ARE
lucerative careers in the making here. Six figures in some cases. :-)

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

[Vo]:My report on NIWeek

[Jed Rothwell]

Written in a heck of a hurry:

http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?p=1330

If anyone thinks I should add something such as a link speak up now.

Although, since it is WordPress, I guess I can modify it from Korea or
anywhere else.


Busy, busy, busy.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect

[Jed Rothwell]

 Ron Kita wrote:

I read Woz and  most recently  I-Woz,  and major corporations  dismissed
Apple on several
accounts.  I think it was an HP executive who said that "there is no market
for
a personal computer".


I think that was the head of DEC.

Wozniak offered HP the IP to the apple, because he designed it while
working for them. They said no thanks, you can have it. Woz had nothing but
good things to say about HP is his autobiography. The company has a
reputation for being nice to employees, and fair. Perhaps they
underestimated the market but my guess is they also wanted to give a
20-something engineer a chance to succeed on his own.

- Jed

[Vo]:Communicating cold fusion needs more than words

[Ruby]

The issue of communicating information about cold fusion is compounded 
by the digital environment in which "no communication is possible" a la 
Jean Baudrillard and Bob Neveritt.


In no future world-line (that I can visualize) will the public be 
reading science papers on lenr.org; I don't see many journalists reading 
them either. They are for the few, the proud, the chosen,...


Despite the massive typing that goes on each day, "words" are not the 
dominant form of communication.  Words are too "puny" compared to the 
huge networks that move data on a planetary-scale.  It is "macroscopic 
gesticulation".


We need images; pictures that describe; animations that explain.

We need to communicate the /reality/ of this energy-producing reaction, 
and that it is safe and clean, through image.


Jed is right.  There is a HUGE untapped mountain of support for this 
technology.  I am on the street talking to people about it on a regular 
basis.


But the CF community is not communicating this science in a way that is 
easily consumed, and the public, needs it to be easy, or  that's it.


The popularity of WLT is IMHO not due to the actual process proposed, 
but the way in which the authors presented their ideas using graphics 
and easily consumed slides.  It is simply easy-to-understand what they 
are saying.


I ask, I beg, I beseech, anyone who has the ability, the capability, or 
the skills, to begin making pictures, computer animations: start 
modeling now.

I wish I did.

If you are a scientist or engineer, go to your local digital art 
institute and propose a project for art students modeling scientific 
processes. Go to your local university digital art department and 
propose a collaboration project. Help artists learn what to model, and 
we can have a communication tool that will go far beyond word-language.



"Communication of the new is a miracle, but not impossible." - Marshall 
McLuhan.




--
Ruby Carat

r...@coldfusionnow.org 
United States 1-707-616-4894
Skype ruby-carat
www.coldfusionnow.org 

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jed Rothwell]

Akira Shirakawa wrote:


Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw


That's great!

Finally, we are seeing some real progress. I think I'll put in the News 
section at LENR-CANR.org. If I have time today . . .


I'll put a link to Krivit's report as well.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[Harry Veeder]

and money. ;-)
harry

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Alain Sepeda  wrote:
> why not a vote
>
> 2012/8/8 Harry Veeder 
>>
>> When is US soil US soil?
>>
>> Would a person be ineligible if the soil he was born on only became US
>> soil after the person's birth?
>> And what if the soil ceased being US soil after he was born?
>>
>> Instead of a simplistic rule, there should be some meaningful criteria
>> for deciding eligibility.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Michele Comitini
>>  wrote:
>> > Jojo,
>> >
>> > I know US president must be born on US soil.
>> > I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was
>> > eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time.
>> > Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we
>> > know wikipedia is far from complete.
>> >
>> > mic
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro :
>> >> Michele, two things:
>> >>
>> >> First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963.  Stanley Ann
>> >> Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at
>> >> that
>> >> time.
>> >>
>> >> Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President.
>> >> The
>> >> founding fathers specifically included "Natural Born" U.S. citizenship
>> >> as a
>> >> qualification for being POTUS.  I trust you know the difference between
>> >> a
>> >> U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen.  Even if bambi was a U.S.
>> >> citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified
>> >> unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jojo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - Original Message - From: "Michele Comitini"
>> >> 
>> >> To: 
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM
>> >>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we
>> >> are
>> >> crazy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint :
>> >>>
>> >>> Good debate!  This is what freedom of speech is all about…
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US
>> >>> citizenship.
>> >>> No
>> >>> conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their
>> >>> grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.”
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Agreed.   His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born
>> >>> here), so
>> >>> it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning  to the USA
>> >>> *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to
>> >>> be a
>> >>> U.S. Citizen.  If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck
>> >>> would…
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being
>> >>> POTUS
>> >>> someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the
>> >>> “in
>> >>> case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason
>> >>> enough
>> >>> by just coming here.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your
>> >>> child to
>> >>> be a US citizen?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the
>> >>> arguments
>> >>> and
>> >>> evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps
>> >>> after
>> >>> the
>> >>> next election we’ll find out?   Or not…
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -Mark
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM
>> >>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we
>> >>> are
>> >>> crazy
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Straw Man argument.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post
>> >>> all
>> >>> births in the newspaper.  During that time, anyone can report a birth
>> >>> to
>> >>> Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in
>> >>> Hawaii.
>> >>> Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth.  Funny
>> >>> though
>> >>> cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly
>> >>> conspired
>> >>> to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president.
>> >>> That's a straw man.   His grandparents were not dumb and knew the
>> >>> benefits
>> >>> of US citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only
>> >>> that
>> >>> they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still
>> >>> secret.  He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single
>> >>> phone
>> >>> call to release his vault BC.  Why hasn't he done it?  All your
>> >>> eloquent
>> >>> reasons wi

[Vo]:Report in US News not bad

[Jed Rothwell]

See:

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at-the-edge/2012/08/08/new-burst-of-energy-could-bring-cold-fusion-to-front-burner

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[Alain Sepeda]

why not a vote

2012/8/8 Harry Veeder 

> When is US soil US soil?
>
> Would a person be ineligible if the soil he was born on only became US
> soil after the person's birth?
> And what if the soil ceased being US soil after he was born?
>
> Instead of a simplistic rule, there should be some meaningful criteria
> for deciding eligibility.
>
> Harry
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Michele Comitini
>  wrote:
> > Jojo,
> >
> > I know US president must be born on US soil.
> > I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was
> > eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time.
> > Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we
> > know wikipedia is far from complete.
> >
> > mic
> >
> >
> >
> > 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro :
> >> Michele, two things:
> >>
> >> First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963.  Stanley Ann
> >> Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that
> >> time.
> >>
> >> Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President.  The
> >> founding fathers specifically included "Natural Born" U.S. citizenship
> as a
> >> qualification for being POTUS.  I trust you know the difference between
> a
> >> U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen.  Even if bambi was a U.S.
> >> citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified
> >> unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jojo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - Original Message - From: "Michele Comitini"
> >> 
> >> To: 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we
> are
> >> crazy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint :
> >>>
> >>> Good debate!  This is what freedom of speech is all about…
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US
> citizenship.
> >>> No
> >>> conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their
> >>> grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.”
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Agreed.   His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born
> here), so
> >>> it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning  to the USA
> >>> *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to
> be a
> >>> U.S. Citizen.  If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck
> would…
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being
> >>> POTUS
> >>> someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the
> “in
> >>> case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason
> >>> enough
> >>> by just coming here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your
> child to
> >>> be a US citizen?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments
> >>> and
> >>> evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps
> after
> >>> the
> >>> next election we’ll find out?   Or not…
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Mark
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM
> >>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we
> are
> >>> crazy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Straw Man argument.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all
> >>> births in the newspaper.  During that time, anyone can report a birth
> to
> >>> Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in
> Hawaii.
> >>> Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth.  Funny
> >>> though
> >>> cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly
> conspired
> >>> to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president.
> >>> That's a straw man.   His grandparents were not dumb and knew the
> benefits
> >>> of US citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only
> that
> >>> they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still
> >>> secret.  He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single
> phone
> >>> call to release his vault BC.  Why hasn't he done it?  All your
> eloquent
> >>> reasons will not overcome this simple fact.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jojo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[Harry Veeder]

When is US soil US soil?

Would a person be ineligible if the soil he was born on only became US
soil after the person's birth?
And what if the soil ceased being US soil after he was born?

Instead of a simplistic rule, there should be some meaningful criteria
for deciding eligibility.

Harry

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 5:45 AM, Michele Comitini
 wrote:
> Jojo,
>
> I know US president must be born on US soil.
> I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was
> eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time.
> Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we
> know wikipedia is far from complete.
>
> mic
>
>
>
> 2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro :
>> Michele, two things:
>>
>> First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963.  Stanley Ann
>> Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that
>> time.
>>
>> Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President.  The
>> founding fathers specifically included "Natural Born" U.S. citizenship as a
>> qualification for being POTUS.  I trust you know the difference between a
>> U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen.  Even if bambi was a U.S.
>> citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified
>> unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jojo
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Michele Comitini"
>> 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are
>> crazy
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint :
>>>
>>> Good debate!  This is what freedom of speech is all about…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship.
>>> No
>>> conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their
>>> grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed.   His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so
>>> it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning  to the USA
>>> *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a
>>> U.S. Citizen.  If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being
>>> POTUS
>>> someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in
>>> case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason
>>> enough
>>> by just coming here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to
>>> be a US citizen?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments
>>> and
>>> evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after
>>> the
>>> next election we’ll find out?   Or not…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM
>>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are
>>> crazy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Straw Man argument.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all
>>> births in the newspaper.  During that time, anyone can report a birth to
>>> Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii.
>>> Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth.  Funny
>>> though
>>> cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired
>>> to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president.
>>> That's a straw man.   His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits
>>> of US citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that
>>> they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still
>>> secret.  He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone
>>> call to release his vault BC.  Why hasn't he done it?  All your eloquent
>>> reasons will not overcome this simple fact.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jojo
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

[Vo]:Financial Gurus and the Apple Effect

[Ron Kita]

Greetings Vortex-l,

I was debating  whether or not to write this post, but it is my feeling
that financial gurus want to avoid the Apple Effect.

I read Woz and  most recently  I-Woz,  and major corporations  dismissed
Apple on several
accounts.  I think it was an HP executive who said that "there is no market
for
a personal computer".

Also, IMHO   financial gurus don t want to miss the "next Apple".  The
 LENR  revolution is far different than the
personal computer revolution.  With energy we know what the "market" is
 from a dollar point of view-
at the inception of the personal computer- the market was a total "unknown.

Knowing the market size changes everything.

To put it modestly I am bullish on LENR.

Respectfully,
Ron
I live in Bucks County PA, a NYC financial commuter zone, and my wall
street friends "cautiously" want to be kept in the LENR information  loop.

Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention

[Ron Kita]

Vortex-l,

We must remember that CNBC rebroadcasted Cold Fusion- Now Hot Againand
there
is some chance that Joe Kernan may have watched it.

Joe..I watch his show daily, and have  a feel for his personality--it
really don t think it was
sarcasm.  I think that he wanted a meaningful reply- or affirmation.

Joe is ex- MIT and technical. Time will  tell if it was meant to be
sarcastic.

Respectfully,
Ron

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Ron Kita  wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> This was the  financial cable show  CNBC Squawk and Joe Kernan, host,
>  made the comment at 7:10AM.
> Not sure If there is an on-line transcript.
>
> Joe Kernan has an interesting WIKI page. He  is a MIT grad and also a
> former Cancer Researcher.
> I sent an email to squ...@cnbc.com thanking him for the comment. I also
> mentioned Professor
> Hagelstein , MIT Lab and his working LENR device.
>
> I am not sure IF the Squawk or Squawk on the Street message will get to
> him, but I send
> msgs in the early am.
>
> Best,
> Ron
>
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:24 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
> orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> > This morning on CNBC Financial News- Squawk Box
>> > an interviiew with author Ms Moyo: Winner Takes All ...the host
>> > of CNBC asked her what she thought about: Cold Fusion.
>> >
>> > CNBC is aware..perhaps more than we know...will more mentioning occur ?
>>
>> Is there a link to the specific article you cite? My searches over at
>> CNBC.COM didn't immediately bring up anything.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Steven Vincent Johnson
>> www.OrionWorks.com
>> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention

[Ron Kita]

Hi Steve,

This was the  financial cable show  CNBC Squawk and Joe Kernan, host,  made
the comment at 7:10AM.
Not sure If there is an on-line transcript.

Joe Kernan has an interesting WIKI page. He  is a MIT grad and also a
former Cancer Researcher.
I sent an email to squ...@cnbc.com thanking him for the comment. I also
mentioned Professor
Hagelstein , MIT Lab and his working LENR device.

I am not sure IF the Squawk or Squawk on the Street message will get to
him, but I send
msgs in the early am.

Best,
Ron

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:24 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson <
orionwo...@charter.net> wrote:

> > This morning on CNBC Financial News- Squawk Box
> > an interviiew with author Ms Moyo: Winner Takes All ...the host
> > of CNBC asked her what she thought about: Cold Fusion.
> >
> > CNBC is aware..perhaps more than we know...will more mentioning occur ?
>
> Is there a link to the specific article you cite? My searches over at
> CNBC.COM didn't immediately bring up anything.
>
> Regards,
> Steven Vincent Johnson
> www.OrionWorks.com
> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[David Roberson]

I thought that since his mother was an American citizen then he automatically 
was.  Is this not the way it pans out?  Does the location of birth outside of 
the USA make one a non citizen?

Dave


-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:31 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy



Good debate!  This is what freedom of speech is all about…
 
“His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship.  No 
conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their grandchild 
to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.”
 
Agreed.   His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so it 
certainly is likely that *if* she was returning  to the USA *permanently*, and 
with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a U.S. Citizen.  If I was 
a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would… 
 
I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being POTUS 
someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in case 
he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason enough by just 
coming here.
 
If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to be a 
US citizen?
 
I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments and 
evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after the 
next election we’ll find out?   Or not…
 
-Mark
 
 

From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

 

Straw Man argument.

 

First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all births 
in the newspaper.  During that time, anyone can report a birth to Hawaii 
authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii.   Hawaii 
authorities did not have to verify the reported birth.  Funny though cause that 
address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents.

 

Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired to 
make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president.  That's a 
straw man.   His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US 
citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want 
their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.

 

 

 

But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still secret.  
He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone call to release 
his vault BC.  Why hasn't he done it?  All your eloquent reasons will not 
overcome this simple fact.

 

Jojo

 

 

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Alain Sepeda]

I've just make quick computation showing, with celani data in the paper and
at NIWeek,
that :
- chemical can be ruled out, even wit >95% anomaly error
- if surface is the only active environment, using micrometric particle
lead to power density of 10kW/g of powder, 10 times above the claim of
Rossi and Defkalion

I quote also someone focusing on data in the Celani paper, that show that
temperature alone can trigger the reaction, that even if electricity make
it better, it is not needed.
So with good engineering self-sustain is possible via insulation...

it can also explain why defkalion use a spark to light up the reactor,
since electro-migration accelerate the reaction, restructure the material,
beside the simple heating effect.

the topic where there are the discussion:
http://lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=353&p=1579#p1565

this small paper contain key data, far from being anecdotal.


2012/8/8 Jed Rothwell 

> Robert Lynn  wrote:
>
>  Hadn't noticed but Akira linked to Celani's report above.
>> http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf
>>
>
> That's pretty good! I uploaded it already.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[Daniel Rocha]

Does that exclude also people who are already president of another country?
It would be fun to be president of 2 countries!

2012/8/8 Jed Rothwell 

> That is incorrect. Several recent candidates such as John McCain were not
> born on U.S. soil. That makes no difference at all. As long as one parent
> is a U.S. citizen the child is a natural born U.S. citizen.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[Jed Rothwell]

Michele Comitini  wrote:

>
> I know US president must be born on US soil.
>

That is incorrect. Several recent candidates such as John McCain were not
born on U.S. soil. That makes no difference at all. As long as one parent
is a U.S. citizen the child is a natural born U.S. citizen.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention

[Jed Rothwell]

Craig Haynie  wrote:

It sounded almost like sarcasm.
>

Probably was.

We don't need to worry about stuff like this. It causes no harm. The only
thing in the mass media that causes harm are reports meant to be taken
seriously that are filled with misinformation, such as the Fleischmann
obituaries, and columns published in Sci. Am. and by Lemonick and Gibbs.

As I said before, slightly wrong information does not hurt either. The
problem arises when people who know absolutely nothing make up stuff and
publish it, like the reporters of 1904 who said the Wright brothers were
flying some kind of balloon.

- Jed

[Vo]:My presentation at ICCF17

[Jed Rothwell]

Session: [FrM1-3], August 17, 2012

Paper Title: The Future may be Better than You Think

Author: Jed Rothwell


Abstract:

Cold fusion researchers are prone to be unduly pessimistic about the
potential for cold fusion. They know too much; they are too close to the
problem. They may also have unexamined assumptions. Researchers feel put
upon because of political opposition. The LENR-CANR log file proves there
is a great deal of interest in this field. There is broad, untapped, latent
support for it. The log shows that every week scientists and engineers
download thousands of papers on cold fusion.

Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention

[Craig Haynie]

It sounded almost like sarcasm.

Craig

On 08/08/2012 10:14 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Terry Blanton mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
>
> Keyword:  "Moyo"
>
> http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000107252&play=1
>
> 4:47 into the vid. (Said with a chuckle.)
>
>
> I think that was a throwaway joke. I do not think anyone there serious
> meant that cold fusion might be real.
>
> - Jed
>

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jed Rothwell]

Robert Lynn  wrote:

Hadn't noticed but Akira linked to Celani's report above.
> http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf
>

That's pretty good! I uploaded it already.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention

[Jed Rothwell]

Terry Blanton  wrote:

>
> Keyword:  "Moyo"
>
> http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000107252&play=1
>
> 4:47 into the vid. (Said with a chuckle.)
>

I think that was a throwaway joke. I do not think anyone there serious
meant that cold fusion might be real.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Jones Beene]

This idea that "radiation can be stopped" in an unshielded robust device is
generally incorrect. The claim indicates the proponent is unfamiliar with
Maxwell-Boltzmann energy distributions.

There are few physical phenomena which are simpler and more certain to
measure in tiny amounts than nuclear radiation, even the kinds that are
"easily shielded". I can measure the radiation signal from bananas for
goodness sake. That is pico-watt level, or less. 

There is absolutely no way to hide detectable relics of radiation in a
device like Celani's, which is responsible for thermal energy in the tens of
watts, without thick lead shielding weighing hundreds of pounds. Even then,
measurable bremsstrahlung makes it through (but it may not be statistically
relevant).

However, photon radiation in the UV and EUV range or lower can be 100%
absorbed - but this does NOT have nuclear, as its prime origin. True - the
weakest beta emitters like tritium are not easily picked up by the old-style
CD Geiger counters but can be detected with scintillators - even when most
of the beta radiation (99.99+%) is seemingly shielded by a piece of glass.
Frascati has these detectors, of course. This is where Boltzmann comes in.

The problem with the "easily stopped" suggestion is in the failure to
appreciate the extremes of the statistical distribution - the so-called
"Boltzmann's tail", and the sensitivity of good meters. It is that tiny
percentage on the far end that always gets detected. Whether it is relevant
or not is another issue.

We can be almost certain that any known nuclear reactions, supplying heat at
the 10-20 watt level would be easily detectable in an unshielded device such
as Celani's. The fact that a wisp of radiation is seen on startup indicates
that QM reactions are involved. The Ni-H phenomenon is not an alternative
version of Pd-D - it is based on a different reaction (but that reaction
could be a predecessor of fusion when adequate deuterium is present). It is
counter-productive to try to frame it this a different version of Pd-D, in
my opinion. The natural ratio of deuterium at ~250 parts per million is way
too low to account for the energy seen, especially over long runs.

Bottom Line: Left open is a completely "new to science" type of nuclear
reaction, never before documented, and having lots of energy with no
radiation signature - but ask yourself this: "is that new kind of nuclear
reaction more likely, or less likely, to be found than alternative proved
reactions? One such alternative, newly discovered, is gain from the DCE
(dynamical Casimir effect) which after all - is "known to science" (but at
lower energy levels).

I'm choosing to go with what is basically known to happen scientifically,
but suggesting that it can be engineered to be more robust. That does not
require another miracle, just good engineering. The DCE was first documented
a little over a year ago, and this is an excellent time to propose that a
version of it at nano-dimensions, is the driving force in Ni-H.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/424111/first-observation-of-the-dynamic
al-casimir-effect/

Can anyone really claim that the Celani's treatment of the wire to give nano
geometry, or Ahern's powder treatment to give nano geometry - are merely
coincidental to the success in this field? Nobody knows what Rossi has done,
but his patent claims "nanometric" and the likelihood in all of this is that
the geometry itself is the sine qua non of thermal gain in Ni-H.


From: alain.coetmeur@gmail.

No a good conclusion.
it can be nuclear  without externally visible radiation.
Raduation can be stopped (alpha , beta),
and phonons could dissipate energy too.
neutrons could be slow and undetectable,
charged particles could be easily stopped...

let's dont fall in the initial error to apply old vision to
new facts , like in 89



<>

Re: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention

[Terry Blanton]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 8:24 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
 wrote:

> Is there a link to the specific article you cite? My searches over at
> CNBC.COM didn't immediately bring up anything.

Keyword:  "Moyo"

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000107252&play=1

4:47 into the vid. (Said with a chuckle.)

T

Re: [Vo]:Celani's Ni-H demo at NIWeek2012

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2012-08-07 10:55, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

Hello group,


Please watch this from minute 15:00 onward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxjxFdFEBsw

Cheers,
S.A.

RE: [Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention

[OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson]

> This morning on CNBC Financial News- Squawk Box 
> an interviiew with author Ms Moyo: Winner Takes All ...the host
> of CNBC asked her what she thought about: Cold Fusion.
>
> CNBC is aware..perhaps more than we know...will more mentioning occur ?

Is there a link to the specific article you cite? My searches over at
CNBC.COM didn't immediately bring up anything.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

[Vo]:CNBC- Squawk Cold Fusion Mention

[Ron Kita]

Greetings Vortex-l,

This morning on CNBC Financial News- Squawk Box   an interviiew with author
Ms Moyo: Winner Takes All ...the host
of CNBC asked her what she thought about: Cold Fusion.

CNBC is aware..perhaps more than we know...will more mentioning occur ?

Respectfully,
Ron Kita, Chiralex

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[Jojo Jaro]

Michele, a Natural Born US citizen must fulfill 2 things:

1.  Must be born to two US citizen parents.
2.  Must be born in US soil.

Surely bambi does not qualify for number 1.  His alleged father was not a US 
citizen


Second, there is significant question as to where he was actually born.  He 
refuses to release his original vault BC.  All we have is a poorly 
photoshopped copy of his BC, which is surely a fake.



Jojo



- Original Message - 
From: "Michele Comitini" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are 
crazy



Jojo,

I know US president must be born on US soil.
I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was
eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time.
Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we
know wikipedia is far from complete.

mic



2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro :

Michele, two things:

First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963.  Stanley Ann
Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that
time.

Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President.  The
founding fathers specifically included "Natural Born" U.S. citizenship as 
a

qualification for being POTUS.  I trust you know the difference between a
U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen.  Even if bambi was a U.S.
citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified
unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen.




Jojo



- Original Message - From: "Michele Comitini"

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM

Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are
crazy


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen




2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint :


Good debate!  This is what freedom of speech is all about…



“His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship.
No
conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their
grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.”



Agreed.   His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), 
so

it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning  to the USA
*permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be 
a

U.S. Citizen.  If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would…



I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being
POTUS
someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the 
“in

case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason
enough
by just coming here.



If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child 
to

be a US citizen?



I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments
and
evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after
the
next election we’ll find out?   Or not…



-Mark





From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com


Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are
crazy



Straw Man argument.



First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all
births in the newspaper.  During that time, anyone can report a birth to
Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii.
Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth.  Funny
though
cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents.



Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly 
conspired

to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president.
That's a straw man.   His grandparents were not dumb and knew the 
benefits
of US citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only 
that

they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.







But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still
secret.  He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone
call to release his vault BC.  Why hasn't he done it?  All your eloquent
reasons will not overcome this simple fact.



Jojo

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

[Michele Comitini]

Jojo,

I know US president must be born on US soil.
I do not know enough about Citizenship law to know if the mother was
eligible to confer Citizenship to her son, she was 18 at the time.
Reading wikipedia seems to say she was eligible in 1961, but as we
know wikipedia is far from complete.

mic



2012/8/8 Jojo Jaro :
> Michele, two things:
>
> First, the Immigration laws were a bit different in 1963.  Stanley Ann
> Dunham was too young to have conferred to Bambi U.S. Citizenship at that
> time.
>
> Second, Mere U.S. Citizenship does not qualify one to be President.  The
> founding fathers specifically included "Natural Born" U.S. citizenship as a
> qualification for being POTUS.  I trust you know the difference between a
> U.S. Citizen and a Natural Born U.S. Citizen.  Even if bambi was a U.S.
> citizen (that fact alone is in doubt); he would still not be qualified
> unless he was Natural Born U.S. Citizen.
>
>
>
>
> Jojo
>
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Michele Comitini"
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:14 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are
> crazy
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_abroad_to_one_United_States_citizen
>
>
>
>
> 2012/8/8 MarkI-ZeroPoint :
>>
>> Good debate!  This is what freedom of speech is all about…
>>
>>
>>
>> “His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits of US citizenship.
>> No
>> conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that they want their
>> grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.”
>>
>>
>>
>> Agreed.   His mother was Caucasian and from the US (she was born here), so
>> it certainly is likely that *if* she was returning  to the USA
>> *permanently*, and with baby Barack, she would have wanted for him to be a
>> U.S. Citizen.  If I was a parent in that situation, I sure as heck would…
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m sure his parents were NOT thinking anything about their son being
>> POTUS
>> someday, obviously, but as explained, there is NO need to bring up the “in
>> case he wanted to become President someday” argument… there is reason
>> enough
>> by just coming here.
>>
>>
>>
>> If that was you bringing in your newborn, would you not want your child to
>> be a US citizen?
>>
>>
>>
>> I must confess, I have only looked at a limited amount of the arguments
>> and
>> evidence about the whole issue, so am on the fence so far… perhaps after
>> the
>> next election we’ll find out?   Or not…
>>
>>
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Jojo Jaro [mailto:jth...@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:02 PM
>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are
>> crazy
>>
>>
>>
>> Straw Man argument.
>>
>>
>>
>> First, the Hawaii authorities are the ones which automatically post all
>> births in the newspaper.  During that time, anyone can report a birth to
>> Hawaii authorities even if the birth did not physically occur in Hawaii.
>> Hawaii authorities did not have to verify the reported birth.  Funny
>> though
>> cause that address belongs to the grandparents, not bambi's parents.
>>
>>
>>
>> Second, there is no need to argue that his grandparents secretly conspired
>> to make him a citizen because they knew he was going to be president.
>> That's a straw man.   His grandparents were not dumb and knew the benefits
>> of US citizenship.  No conspiracy to be POTUS has to be invoked, only that
>> they want their grandchild to be a US citizen is good enough a reason.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> But just give me a simple explanation why his Hawaii Vault BC is still
>> secret.  He can end this Birther conspiracy movement with a single phone
>> call to release his vault BC.  Why hasn't he done it?  All your eloquent
>> reasons will not overcome this simple fact.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jojo
>>
>>
>
>