Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%

[Kevin O'Malley]

Revising my estimate that Blaze will "pull it out" down to 10%.  Perhaps he
has some "realness" in him, but my estimates show my doubts.  My increasing
doubts.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> Yes, let the anger flow through you, my apprentice.  It will make you
> powerful.
>
> Anyways, no need to get stressed - whatever happens, I guarantee it will
> be exciting.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> Revising my estimate that Blaze will pull it out down to 10%.  Based upon
>> his previous posts, his response on this thread when directly challenged,
>> his responses on other threads which he brings over here as if it meant
>> something, and his initial 10:1 odds that he reneged on.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>>
>>> Because I invested already.  No thanks to you and your idiotic responses
>>> on this thread.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Kevin, if you want to invest .. why not HydroFusion?  Looks to be the
 best option.


 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:

> I am decreasing the probability of Blaze pulling his head out of his
> ass down to 11%.  He logs onto his own thread without reading it and
> responding to posts directly for him.   He generates his own probabilities
> often on things that have nothing to do with Rossi, and doesn't define 
> what
> "being real" is, and let's not forget that he first offered 10:1 odds when
> he first showed up here and very quickly backed away.  He's running agenda
> on top of all this annoying cephalorectomy garbage.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Decreasing the probability to 31% based on smelly stock offering.
>>
>>
>> http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/
>>
>> HydroFusion is ran by Dr. Magnus Holm.  Seems credible - but why
>> didn't he wait until after the report to ask for more money?  Why is 
>> Rossi
>> doing shout outs about Dr Holm?
>>
>> Andrea Rossi
>> May 18th, 2014 at 11:20 
>> PM
>>
>> Orsobubu:
>> Thank you for your comment, that indroduces us to the paper published
>> today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:
>> GEOMETRY OF STRING THEORY SOLITONS
>> by Dr Magnus Holm . It is an important work of this scientist made in
>> 1999, but I find his work dense of important information. It is not an 
>> easy
>> reading, the work is rigorous, but this is the Journal of Nuclear 
>> Physics,
>> and the paper is perfectly in line with the field of application of our
>> Journal. Dr Magnus Holm is presently working also with me for the E-Cat.
>> About the comment of our friend Orsobubu: I do not share his
>> certainties regarding the so called “social sciences”.
>> Warm Regards,
>> A.R.
>>
>> This could be just really inane business strategy or perhaps Magnus
>> just doesn't have a good contract with Rossi/IH.
>>
>> For those who really believe in Rossi, my suggestion would be to
>> contact Hydro fusion and buy up as many shares as you possibly can.
>>
>> I think everything comes down to this report that should be coming
>> over the next month.   We could see a rise over over 20-30% on the basis 
>> of
>> this report.
>>
>> Another possibility is that the report may reveal a low COP which is
>> competitive only with geothermal and could be the result of uninteresting
>> fuel sources. (which means a drop in probability of 10% or so)
>>
>> Another (unlikely in my mind) possibility is that the report will
>> reveal that it doesn't do anything useful, which will be a drop in 25%.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Decreasing the probability to 35% based on shattering news of the
>>> Defkalion demo being completely worthless.  I hesitate to say it, but It
>>> almost sounds like fraud is being implied.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://animpossibleinvention.com/2014/05/12/defkalion-demo-proven-not-to-be-reliable/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Decreasing probability to 46% based on lack of news from Nanor but
 up to 47% based on recent news from Darden in China:

 http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=118

 hat tip:


 http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/09/tom-darden-involved-in-opening-of-nickel-hydrogen-energy-research-center-in-tianjin-china/

 Note:

Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Yes, let the anger flow through you, my apprentice.  It will make you
powerful.

Anyways, no need to get stressed - whatever happens, I guarantee it will be
exciting.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:

> Revising my estimate that Blaze will pull it out down to 10%.  Based upon
> his previous posts, his response on this thread when directly challenged,
> his responses on other threads which he brings over here as if it meant
> something, and his initial 10:1 odds that he reneged on.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> Because I invested already.  No thanks to you and your idiotic responses
>> on this thread.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Kevin, if you want to invest .. why not HydroFusion?  Looks to be the
>>> best option.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>>>
 I am decreasing the probability of Blaze pulling his head out of his
 ass down to 11%.  He logs onto his own thread without reading it and
 responding to posts directly for him.   He generates his own probabilities
 often on things that have nothing to do with Rossi, and doesn't define what
 "being real" is, and let's not forget that he first offered 10:1 odds when
 he first showed up here and very quickly backed away.  He's running agenda
 on top of all this annoying cephalorectomy garbage.


 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Decreasing the probability to 31% based on smelly stock offering.
>
>
> http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/
>
> HydroFusion is ran by Dr. Magnus Holm.  Seems credible - but why
> didn't he wait until after the report to ask for more money?  Why is Rossi
> doing shout outs about Dr Holm?
>
> Andrea Rossi
> May 18th, 2014 at 11:20 
> PM
>
> Orsobubu:
> Thank you for your comment, that indroduces us to the paper published
> today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:
> GEOMETRY OF STRING THEORY SOLITONS
> by Dr Magnus Holm . It is an important work of this scientist made in
> 1999, but I find his work dense of important information. It is not an 
> easy
> reading, the work is rigorous, but this is the Journal of Nuclear Physics,
> and the paper is perfectly in line with the field of application of our
> Journal. Dr Magnus Holm is presently working also with me for the E-Cat.
> About the comment of our friend Orsobubu: I do not share his
> certainties regarding the so called “social sciences”.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
> This could be just really inane business strategy or perhaps Magnus
> just doesn't have a good contract with Rossi/IH.
>
> For those who really believe in Rossi, my suggestion would be to
> contact Hydro fusion and buy up as many shares as you possibly can.
>
> I think everything comes down to this report that should be coming
> over the next month.   We could see a rise over over 20-30% on the basis 
> of
> this report.
>
> Another possibility is that the report may reveal a low COP which is
> competitive only with geothermal and could be the result of uninteresting
> fuel sources. (which means a drop in probability of 10% or so)
>
> Another (unlikely in my mind) possibility is that the report will
> reveal that it doesn't do anything useful, which will be a drop in 25%.
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Decreasing the probability to 35% based on shattering news of the
>> Defkalion demo being completely worthless.  I hesitate to say it, but It
>> almost sounds like fraud is being implied.
>>
>>
>> http://animpossibleinvention.com/2014/05/12/defkalion-demo-proven-not-to-be-reliable/
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Decreasing probability to 46% based on lack of news from Nanor but
>>> up to 47% based on recent news from Darden in China:
>>>
>>> http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=118
>>>
>>> hat tip:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/09/tom-darden-involved-in-opening-of-nickel-hydrogen-energy-research-center-in-tianjin-china/
>>>
>>> Note:  I suspect there will be an up to (-30%, +15%) swing in
>>> probability when the june report comes out.  Big news indeed.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Increasing the probability to 47% on the basis on Nanor / MIT
 videos.


>>

Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%

[Kevin O'Malley]

Revising my estimate that Blaze will pull it out down to 10%.  Based upon
his previous posts, his response on this thread when directly challenged,
his responses on other threads which he brings over here as if it meant
something, and his initial 10:1 odds that he reneged on.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:

> Because I invested already.  No thanks to you and your idiotic responses
> on this thread.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Kevin, if you want to invest .. why not HydroFusion?  Looks to be the
>> best option.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>>
>>> I am decreasing the probability of Blaze pulling his head out of his ass
>>> down to 11%.  He logs onto his own thread without reading it and responding
>>> to posts directly for him.   He generates his own probabilities often on
>>> things that have nothing to do with Rossi, and doesn't define what "being
>>> real" is, and let's not forget that he first offered 10:1 odds when he
>>> first showed up here and very quickly backed away.  He's running agenda on
>>> top of all this annoying cephalorectomy garbage.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Decreasing the probability to 31% based on smelly stock offering.


 http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/

 HydroFusion is ran by Dr. Magnus Holm.  Seems credible - but why didn't
 he wait until after the report to ask for more money?  Why is Rossi doing
 shout outs about Dr Holm?

 Andrea Rossi
 May 18th, 2014 at 11:20 
 PM

 Orsobubu:
 Thank you for your comment, that indroduces us to the paper published
 today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:
 GEOMETRY OF STRING THEORY SOLITONS
 by Dr Magnus Holm . It is an important work of this scientist made in
 1999, but I find his work dense of important information. It is not an easy
 reading, the work is rigorous, but this is the Journal of Nuclear Physics,
 and the paper is perfectly in line with the field of application of our
 Journal. Dr Magnus Holm is presently working also with me for the E-Cat.
 About the comment of our friend Orsobubu: I do not share his
 certainties regarding the so called “social sciences”.
 Warm Regards,
 A.R.

 This could be just really inane business strategy or perhaps Magnus
 just doesn't have a good contract with Rossi/IH.

 For those who really believe in Rossi, my suggestion would be to
 contact Hydro fusion and buy up as many shares as you possibly can.

 I think everything comes down to this report that should be coming over
 the next month.   We could see a rise over over 20-30% on the basis of this
 report.

 Another possibility is that the report may reveal a low COP which is
 competitive only with geothermal and could be the result of uninteresting
 fuel sources. (which means a drop in probability of 10% or so)

 Another (unlikely in my mind) possibility is that the report will
 reveal that it doesn't do anything useful, which will be a drop in 25%.



 On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Decreasing the probability to 35% based on shattering news of the
> Defkalion demo being completely worthless.  I hesitate to say it, but It
> almost sounds like fraud is being implied.
>
>
> http://animpossibleinvention.com/2014/05/12/defkalion-demo-proven-not-to-be-reliable/
>
>
> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Decreasing probability to 46% based on lack of news from Nanor but up
>> to 47% based on recent news from Darden in China:
>>
>> http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=118
>>
>> hat tip:
>>
>>
>> http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/09/tom-darden-involved-in-opening-of-nickel-hydrogen-energy-research-center-in-tianjin-china/
>>
>> Note:  I suspect there will be an up to (-30%, +15%) swing in
>> probability when the june report comes out.  Big news indeed.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Increasing the probability to 47% on the basis on Nanor / MIT videos.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Put that back to 43%:

 Mr. Darden earned an MRP in environmental planning from the
 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,* a JD from Yale Law
 School* and a BA from the University of North Carolina at Chapel

Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%

[Kevin O'Malley]

Because I invested already.  No thanks to you and your idiotic responses on
this thread.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:24 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> Kevin, if you want to invest .. why not HydroFusion?  Looks to be the best
> option.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> I am decreasing the probability of Blaze pulling his head out of his ass
>> down to 11%.  He logs onto his own thread without reading it and responding
>> to posts directly for him.   He generates his own probabilities often on
>> things that have nothing to do with Rossi, and doesn't define what "being
>> real" is, and let's not forget that he first offered 10:1 odds when he
>> first showed up here and very quickly backed away.  He's running agenda on
>> top of all this annoying cephalorectomy garbage.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Decreasing the probability to 31% based on smelly stock offering.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/
>>>
>>> HydroFusion is ran by Dr. Magnus Holm.  Seems credible - but why didn't
>>> he wait until after the report to ask for more money?  Why is Rossi doing
>>> shout outs about Dr Holm?
>>>
>>> Andrea Rossi
>>> May 18th, 2014 at 11:20 
>>> PM
>>>
>>> Orsobubu:
>>> Thank you for your comment, that indroduces us to the paper published
>>> today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:
>>> GEOMETRY OF STRING THEORY SOLITONS
>>> by Dr Magnus Holm . It is an important work of this scientist made in
>>> 1999, but I find his work dense of important information. It is not an easy
>>> reading, the work is rigorous, but this is the Journal of Nuclear Physics,
>>> and the paper is perfectly in line with the field of application of our
>>> Journal. Dr Magnus Holm is presently working also with me for the E-Cat.
>>> About the comment of our friend Orsobubu: I do not share his certainties
>>> regarding the so called “social sciences”.
>>> Warm Regards,
>>> A.R.
>>>
>>> This could be just really inane business strategy or perhaps Magnus just
>>> doesn't have a good contract with Rossi/IH.
>>>
>>> For those who really believe in Rossi, my suggestion would be to contact
>>> Hydro fusion and buy up as many shares as you possibly can.
>>>
>>> I think everything comes down to this report that should be coming over
>>> the next month.   We could see a rise over over 20-30% on the basis of this
>>> report.
>>>
>>> Another possibility is that the report may reveal a low COP which is
>>> competitive only with geothermal and could be the result of uninteresting
>>> fuel sources. (which means a drop in probability of 10% or so)
>>>
>>> Another (unlikely in my mind) possibility is that the report will reveal
>>> that it doesn't do anything useful, which will be a drop in 25%.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Decreasing the probability to 35% based on shattering news of the
 Defkalion demo being completely worthless.  I hesitate to say it, but It
 almost sounds like fraud is being implied.


 http://animpossibleinvention.com/2014/05/12/defkalion-demo-proven-not-to-be-reliable/


 On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Decreasing probability to 46% based on lack of news from Nanor but up
> to 47% based on recent news from Darden in China:
>
> http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=118
>
> hat tip:
>
>
> http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/09/tom-darden-involved-in-opening-of-nickel-hydrogen-energy-research-center-in-tianjin-china/
>
> Note:  I suspect there will be an up to (-30%, +15%) swing in
> probability when the june report comes out.  Big news indeed.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Increasing the probability to 47% on the basis on Nanor / MIT videos.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Put that back to 43%:
>>>
>>> Mr. Darden earned an MRP in environmental planning from the
>>> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,* a JD from Yale Law
>>> School* and a BA from the University of North Carolina at Chapel
>>> Hill, where he was a Morehead Scholar.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Correction, make that 41%.  It's not Cherokee but rather  Tom
 Darden (investor, co founder of Cherokee) and Mr. Vaughn (senior 
 analyst at
 Cherokee, BA Economics)  who are the players here.

 It'd be good to find out who those other investors are.

>>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Kevin O'Malley]

It is less ambitious than your supposed 35% probability that "Rossi is
real".  If you had been reading your own thread, you'd know why.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> This is a very ambitious theory.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> Here is the message Rossi is sending:
>>
>> He is about to get swamped by media inquiries, interviews, accolades, and
>> hints on stock tips.  He is repaying some of the help he has received from
>> others in the past.  Hydrofusion is one of his friends to whom he is
>> indebted.  When the report comes out, and NASA follows it up with their
>> assessment, suddenly LENR is real.  Everyone will want a piece of it.  And
>> they'll look for any clues as to where to get in on the action.
>> Hydrofusion will be one of those pieces. So will the stock in CYPW or other
>> Stirling Engine manufacturers.  Coal and oil stocks will plummet.
>>
>>  It is likely that the next stage will include a flat-out demo by
>> Hydrofusion.  We are going in for some heady times similar to when the
>> Wright brothers demo'd their capabilities to an initially unbelieving
>> audience.  Anyone want a cup of Richard Garwin tea?  Only $13.99.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>>
>>> I don't understand what kind of message he would be sending... :S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Kevin, if you want to invest .. why not HydroFusion?  Looks to be the best
option.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> I am decreasing the probability of Blaze pulling his head out of his ass
> down to 11%.  He logs onto his own thread without reading it and responding
> to posts directly for him.   He generates his own probabilities often on
> things that have nothing to do with Rossi, and doesn't define what "being
> real" is, and let's not forget that he first offered 10:1 odds when he
> first showed up here and very quickly backed away.  He's running agenda on
> top of all this annoying cephalorectomy garbage.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> Decreasing the probability to 31% based on smelly stock offering.
>>
>>
>> http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/
>>
>> HydroFusion is ran by Dr. Magnus Holm.  Seems credible - but why didn't
>> he wait until after the report to ask for more money?  Why is Rossi doing
>> shout outs about Dr Holm?
>>
>> Andrea Rossi
>> May 18th, 2014 at 11:20 
>> PM
>>
>> Orsobubu:
>> Thank you for your comment, that indroduces us to the paper published
>> today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:
>> GEOMETRY OF STRING THEORY SOLITONS
>> by Dr Magnus Holm . It is an important work of this scientist made in
>> 1999, but I find his work dense of important information. It is not an easy
>> reading, the work is rigorous, but this is the Journal of Nuclear Physics,
>> and the paper is perfectly in line with the field of application of our
>> Journal. Dr Magnus Holm is presently working also with me for the E-Cat.
>> About the comment of our friend Orsobubu: I do not share his certainties
>> regarding the so called “social sciences”.
>> Warm Regards,
>> A.R.
>>
>> This could be just really inane business strategy or perhaps Magnus just
>> doesn't have a good contract with Rossi/IH.
>>
>> For those who really believe in Rossi, my suggestion would be to contact
>> Hydro fusion and buy up as many shares as you possibly can.
>>
>> I think everything comes down to this report that should be coming over
>> the next month.   We could see a rise over over 20-30% on the basis of this
>> report.
>>
>> Another possibility is that the report may reveal a low COP which is
>> competitive only with geothermal and could be the result of uninteresting
>> fuel sources. (which means a drop in probability of 10% or so)
>>
>> Another (unlikely in my mind) possibility is that the report will reveal
>> that it doesn't do anything useful, which will be a drop in 25%.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Decreasing the probability to 35% based on shattering news of the
>>> Defkalion demo being completely worthless.  I hesitate to say it, but It
>>> almost sounds like fraud is being implied.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://animpossibleinvention.com/2014/05/12/defkalion-demo-proven-not-to-be-reliable/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Decreasing probability to 46% based on lack of news from Nanor but up
 to 47% based on recent news from Darden in China:

 http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=118

 hat tip:


 http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/09/tom-darden-involved-in-opening-of-nickel-hydrogen-energy-research-center-in-tianjin-china/

 Note:  I suspect there will be an up to (-30%, +15%) swing in
 probability when the june report comes out.  Big news indeed.


 On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Increasing the probability to 47% on the basis on Nanor / MIT videos.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Put that back to 43%:
>>
>> Mr. Darden earned an MRP in environmental planning from the
>> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,* a JD from Yale Law
>> School* and a BA from the University of North Carolina at Chapel
>> Hill, where he was a Morehead Scholar.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Correction, make that 41%.  It's not Cherokee but rather  Tom Darden
>>> (investor, co founder of Cherokee) and Mr. Vaughn (senior analyst at
>>> Cherokee, BA Economics)  who are the players here.
>>>
>>> It'd be good to find out who those other investors are.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Increasing the probability to 44% on the basis of Cherokee PR
 release.

 Big big BIG news.   Now this is no longer about Rossi, but about
 Cher

Re: [Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Blaze Spinnaker]

This is a very ambitious theory.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:

> Here is the message Rossi is sending:
>
> He is about to get swamped by media inquiries, interviews, accolades, and
> hints on stock tips.  He is repaying some of the help he has received from
> others in the past.  Hydrofusion is one of his friends to whom he is
> indebted.  When the report comes out, and NASA follows it up with their
> assessment, suddenly LENR is real.  Everyone will want a piece of it.  And
> they'll look for any clues as to where to get in on the action.
> Hydrofusion will be one of those pieces. So will the stock in CYPW or other
> Stirling Engine manufacturers.  Coal and oil stocks will plummet.
>
>  It is likely that the next stage will include a flat-out demo by
> Hydrofusion.  We are going in for some heady times similar to when the
> Wright brothers demo'd their capabilities to an initially unbelieving
> audience.  Anyone want a cup of Richard Garwin tea?  Only $13.99.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
>> I don't understand what kind of message he would be sending... :S
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Kevin O'Malley]

When did Rossi brag about such a thing?  Defkalion BRAGGED.

I doubt Rossi stole such secrets.  And arguing with you is a fool's
errand.  Jed is right.  You are wrong.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> And Rossi stole Piantelli's secrets...
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:16 AM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> The same level of horse manure is what the investors behind Glenn Curtiss
>> said.  He didn't need to invent the airplane.  He didn't need to know squat
>> about it.  He just needed to improve on what was presented.  And he stole
>> the rest.  History shows him to be the con man, and the Wright brothers to
>> be the true heroes who were wronged by his patent abuses.
>>
>> There will be no doubt another terrible patent war surrounding LENR.
>> Butmby next year, everyone knows that Rossi is the one who pushed this
>> technology into open.  Not the guys who admitted to stealing Rossi's secret.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> The handful of partners who will initially invest in the DGT technology
>>> will be entering into a joint venture where the partners will be evaluating
>>> much more than the technology.
>>>
>>> These partners will be looking at DGT as an organization that will be
>>> capable of providing continuing improvements to their nascent  cold fusion
>>> technology over many years into the intermediate future at the forefront of
>>> that LENR science.
>>>
>>> These partners will be capable of testing DGT and adapting these systems
>>> to meet their own needs  and evolving those systems to meet there current
>>> and future product requirements.
>>>
>>>  DGT must be able to explain the finest and most obscure points of LENR
>>> science within a framework of a new unified scientific paradigm.
>>>
>>> The partners who do due diligence will evaluate the key personnel of DGT
>>> to insure that this technical and management team will provide cutting edge
>>> science into the indefinite future.
>>>
>>> This management will also include the security and intellectual
>>> protection of the HEMI technology which will insure a vanguard position in
>>> the field of LENR both now and into the foreseeable future.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
>>>
 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

 In procurement of systems, it is the buyer's responsibility to do due
> diligence:
>

 This argument seems to be a different one than one in which DGT is held
 to be basically sound but misunderstood.  In this line of reasoning, it
 would seem that DGT are free to do whatever they like, including squirly
 business practices that approach fraud, and it is up to potential investors
 to make sure they know what they're getting into.  This does not seem like
 a promising approach to exonerating DGT.

 Eric


>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Axil Axil]

And Rossi stole Piantelli's secrets...


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 12:16 AM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:

> The same level of horse manure is what the investors behind Glenn Curtiss
> said.  He didn't need to invent the airplane.  He didn't need to know squat
> about it.  He just needed to improve on what was presented.  And he stole
> the rest.  History shows him to be the con man, and the Wright brothers to
> be the true heroes who were wronged by his patent abuses.
>
> There will be no doubt another terrible patent war surrounding LENR.
> Butmby next year, everyone knows that Rossi is the one who pushed this
> technology into open.  Not the guys who admitted to stealing Rossi's secret.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> The handful of partners who will initially invest in the DGT technology
>> will be entering into a joint venture where the partners will be evaluating
>> much more than the technology.
>>
>> These partners will be looking at DGT as an organization that will be
>> capable of providing continuing improvements to their nascent  cold fusion
>> technology over many years into the intermediate future at the forefront of
>> that LENR science.
>>
>> These partners will be capable of testing DGT and adapting these systems
>> to meet their own needs  and evolving those systems to meet there current
>> and future product requirements.
>>
>>  DGT must be able to explain the finest and most obscure points of LENR
>> science within a framework of a new unified scientific paradigm.
>>
>> The partners who do due diligence will evaluate the key personnel of DGT
>> to insure that this technical and management team will provide cutting edge
>> science into the indefinite future.
>>
>> This management will also include the security and intellectual
>> protection of the HEMI technology which will insure a vanguard position in
>> the field of LENR both now and into the foreseeable future.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
>>> In procurement of systems, it is the buyer's responsibility to do due
 diligence:

>>>
>>> This argument seems to be a different one than one in which DGT is held
>>> to be basically sound but misunderstood.  In this line of reasoning, it
>>> would seem that DGT are free to do whatever they like, including squirly
>>> business practices that approach fraud, and it is up to potential investors
>>> to make sure they know what they're getting into.  This does not seem like
>>> a promising approach to exonerating DGT.
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Kevin O'Malley]

The same level of horse manure is what the investors behind Glenn Curtiss
said.  He didn't need to invent the airplane.  He didn't need to know squat
about it.  He just needed to improve on what was presented.  And he stole
the rest.  History shows him to be the con man, and the Wright brothers to
be the true heroes who were wronged by his patent abuses.

There will be no doubt another terrible patent war surrounding LENR.
Butmby next year, everyone knows that Rossi is the one who pushed this
technology into open.  Not the guys who admitted to stealing Rossi's secret.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> The handful of partners who will initially invest in the DGT technology
> will be entering into a joint venture where the partners will be evaluating
> much more than the technology.
>
> These partners will be looking at DGT as an organization that will be
> capable of providing continuing improvements to their nascent  cold fusion
> technology over many years into the intermediate future at the forefront of
> that LENR science.
>
> These partners will be capable of testing DGT and adapting these systems
> to meet their own needs  and evolving those systems to meet there current
> and future product requirements.
>
> DGT must be able to explain the finest and most obscure points of LENR
> science within a framework of a new unified scientific paradigm.
>
> The partners who do due diligence will evaluate the key personnel of DGT
> to insure that this technical and management team will provide cutting edge
> science into the indefinite future.
>
> This management will also include the security and intellectual protection
> of the HEMI technology which will insure a vanguard position in the field
> of LENR both now and into the foreseeable future.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>> In procurement of systems, it is the buyer's responsibility to do due
>>> diligence:
>>>
>>
>> This argument seems to be a different one than one in which DGT is held
>> to be basically sound but misunderstood.  In this line of reasoning, it
>> would seem that DGT are free to do whatever they like, including squirly
>> business practices that approach fraud, and it is up to potential investors
>> to make sure they know what they're getting into.  This does not seem like
>> a promising approach to exonerating DGT.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Axil Axil]

The handful of partners who will initially invest in the DGT technology
will be entering into a joint venture where the partners will be evaluating
much more than the technology.

These partners will be looking at DGT as an organization that will be
capable of providing continuing improvements to their nascent  cold fusion
technology over many years into the intermediate future at the forefront of
that LENR science.

These partners will be capable of testing DGT and adapting these systems to
meet their own needs  and evolving those systems to meet there current and
future product requirements.

DGT must be able to explain the finest and most obscure points of LENR
science within a framework of a new unified scientific paradigm.

The partners who do due diligence will evaluate the key personnel of DGT to
insure that this technical and management team will provide cutting edge
science into the indefinite future.

This management will also include the security and intellectual protection
of the HEMI technology which will insure a vanguard position in the field
of LENR both now and into the foreseeable future.









On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> In procurement of systems, it is the buyer's responsibility to do due
>> diligence:
>>
>
> This argument seems to be a different one than one in which DGT is held to
> be basically sound but misunderstood.  In this line of reasoning, it would
> seem that DGT are free to do whatever they like, including squirly business
> practices that approach fraud, and it is up to potential investors to make
> sure they know what they're getting into.  This does not seem like a
> promising approach to exonerating DGT.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Kevin O'Malley]

Here is the message Rossi is sending:

He is about to get swamped by media inquiries, interviews, accolades, and
hints on stock tips.  He is repaying some of the help he has received from
others in the past.  Hydrofusion is one of his friends to whom he is
indebted.  When the report comes out, and NASA follows it up with their
assessment, suddenly LENR is real.  Everyone will want a piece of it.  And
they'll look for any clues as to where to get in on the action.
Hydrofusion will be one of those pieces. So will the stock in CYPW or other
Stirling Engine manufacturers.  Coal and oil stocks will plummet.

 It is likely that the next stage will include a flat-out demo by
Hydrofusion.  We are going in for some heady times similar to when the
Wright brothers demo'd their capabilities to an initially unbelieving
audience.  Anyone want a cup of Richard Garwin tea?  Only $13.99.



On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> I don't understand what kind of message he would be sending... :S
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Cyril Smith Paper may have relevance to LENR

[Eric Walker]

On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Jones Beene  wrote:

For instance, relativistic electron pumping via
> Dirac mechanics would not be "nuclear".
>

Is this a Dirac sea mechanism?

Aside from a nuclear source, we have as possibilities f/H shrinkage,
something coming out of the Dirac sea, and pure pair production from light.
 I'm inclined to invoke Occam, but I guess that's not so persuasive here.
 ;)

Will f/H shrinkage provide a specific energy of 10E7 Wh/kg?  When I think
of f/H, the thought "~100 eV" comes to my mind.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Cyril Smith Paper may have relevance to LENR

[Eric Walker]

On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

In consideration of the recent posting regarding converting light into
> mass, the upper limit of energy density is set by the speed of light
> at 2.5 x 10^13 Wh/kg.  Although the scientists have not actually
> converted photons to electrons and positrons, a controlled reverse
> process can be conceived which could achieve the upper limit.  Such
> process would not necessarily involve any nucleus.
>

To get the power seen in the 2013 E-Cat test, I assume the amount of pair
production and resulting 511 keV annihilation photons from such a process
would make a fantastic x-ray CRT and would be lethal to anyone nearby if
not adequately shielded.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Eric Walker]

On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

In procurement of systems, it is the buyer's responsibility to do due
> diligence:
>

This argument seems to be a different one than one in which DGT is held to
be basically sound but misunderstood.  In this line of reasoning, it would
seem that DGT are free to do whatever they like, including squirly business
practices that approach fraud, and it is up to potential investors to make
sure they know what they're getting into.  This does not seem like a
promising approach to exonerating DGT.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%

[Kevin O'Malley]

I am decreasing the probability of Blaze pulling his head out of his ass
down to 11%.  He logs onto his own thread without reading it and responding
to posts directly for him.   He generates his own probabilities often on
things that have nothing to do with Rossi, and doesn't define what "being
real" is, and let's not forget that he first offered 10:1 odds when he
first showed up here and very quickly backed away.  He's running agenda on
top of all this annoying cephalorectomy garbage.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> Decreasing the probability to 31% based on smelly stock offering.
>
>
> http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/
>
> HydroFusion is ran by Dr. Magnus Holm.  Seems credible - but why didn't he
> wait until after the report to ask for more money?  Why is Rossi doing
> shout outs about Dr Holm?
>
> Andrea Rossi
> May 18th, 2014 at 11:20 
> PM
>
> Orsobubu:
> Thank you for your comment, that indroduces us to the paper published
> today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:
> GEOMETRY OF STRING THEORY SOLITONS
> by Dr Magnus Holm . It is an important work of this scientist made in
> 1999, but I find his work dense of important information. It is not an easy
> reading, the work is rigorous, but this is the Journal of Nuclear Physics,
> and the paper is perfectly in line with the field of application of our
> Journal. Dr Magnus Holm is presently working also with me for the E-Cat.
> About the comment of our friend Orsobubu: I do not share his certainties
> regarding the so called “social sciences”.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
> This could be just really inane business strategy or perhaps Magnus just
> doesn't have a good contract with Rossi/IH.
>
> For those who really believe in Rossi, my suggestion would be to contact
> Hydro fusion and buy up as many shares as you possibly can.
>
> I think everything comes down to this report that should be coming over
> the next month.   We could see a rise over over 20-30% on the basis of this
> report.
>
> Another possibility is that the report may reveal a low COP which is
> competitive only with geothermal and could be the result of uninteresting
> fuel sources. (which means a drop in probability of 10% or so)
>
> Another (unlikely in my mind) possibility is that the report will reveal
> that it doesn't do anything useful, which will be a drop in 25%.
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Decreasing the probability to 35% based on shattering news of the
>> Defkalion demo being completely worthless.  I hesitate to say it, but It
>> almost sounds like fraud is being implied.
>>
>>
>> http://animpossibleinvention.com/2014/05/12/defkalion-demo-proven-not-to-be-reliable/
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Decreasing probability to 46% based on lack of news from Nanor but up to
>>> 47% based on recent news from Darden in China:
>>>
>>> http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=118
>>>
>>> hat tip:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/09/tom-darden-involved-in-opening-of-nickel-hydrogen-energy-research-center-in-tianjin-china/
>>>
>>> Note:  I suspect there will be an up to (-30%, +15%) swing in
>>> probability when the june report comes out.  Big news indeed.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Increasing the probability to 47% on the basis on Nanor / MIT videos.



 On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Put that back to 43%:
>
> Mr. Darden earned an MRP in environmental planning from the University
> of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,* a JD from Yale Law School* and a
> BA from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where he was a
> Morehead Scholar.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Correction, make that 41%.  It's not Cherokee but rather  Tom Darden
>> (investor, co founder of Cherokee) and Mr. Vaughn (senior analyst at
>> Cherokee, BA Economics)  who are the players here.
>>
>> It'd be good to find out who those other investors are.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Increasing the probability to 44% on the basis of Cherokee PR
>>> release.
>>>
>>> Big big BIG news.   Now this is no longer about Rossi, but about
>>> Cherokee.
>>>
>>> I know you guys think I'm a git for my doubt, but hey, my model is
>>> wy ahead of the curve than the vast majority of the investing 
>>> universe.
>>>XOM is still trading near historical highs, for example.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Increasing probability of Rossi being real upwards, to 35%

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Decreasing the probability to 31% based on smelly stock offering.

http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/

HydroFusion is ran by Dr. Magnus Holm.  Seems credible - but why didn't he
wait until after the report to ask for more money?  Why is Rossi doing
shout outs about Dr Holm?

Andrea Rossi
May 18th, 2014 at 11:20
PM

Orsobubu:
Thank you for your comment, that indroduces us to the paper published today
on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:
GEOMETRY OF STRING THEORY SOLITONS
by Dr Magnus Holm . It is an important work of this scientist made in 1999,
but I find his work dense of important information. It is not an easy
reading, the work is rigorous, but this is the Journal of Nuclear Physics,
and the paper is perfectly in line with the field of application of our
Journal. Dr Magnus Holm is presently working also with me for the E-Cat.
About the comment of our friend Orsobubu: I do not share his certainties
regarding the so called “social sciences”.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

This could be just really inane business strategy or perhaps Magnus just
doesn't have a good contract with Rossi/IH.

For those who really believe in Rossi, my suggestion would be to contact
Hydro fusion and buy up as many shares as you possibly can.

I think everything comes down to this report that should be coming over the
next month.   We could see a rise over over 20-30% on the basis of this
report.

Another possibility is that the report may reveal a low COP which is
competitive only with geothermal and could be the result of uninteresting
fuel sources. (which means a drop in probability of 10% or so)

Another (unlikely in my mind) possibility is that the report will reveal
that it doesn't do anything useful, which will be a drop in 25%.



On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 10:41 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> Decreasing the probability to 35% based on shattering news of the
> Defkalion demo being completely worthless.  I hesitate to say it, but It
> almost sounds like fraud is being implied.
>
>
> http://animpossibleinvention.com/2014/05/12/defkalion-demo-proven-not-to-be-reliable/
>
>
> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
>> Decreasing probability to 46% based on lack of news from Nanor but up to
>> 47% based on recent news from Darden in China:
>>
>> http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=118
>>
>> hat tip:
>>
>>
>> http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/05/09/tom-darden-involved-in-opening-of-nickel-hydrogen-energy-research-center-in-tianjin-china/
>>
>> Note:  I suspect there will be an up to (-30%, +15%) swing in probability
>> when the june report comes out.  Big news indeed.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Increasing the probability to 47% on the basis on Nanor / MIT videos.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Put that back to 43%:

 Mr. Darden earned an MRP in environmental planning from the University
 of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,* a JD from Yale Law School* and a BA
 from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where he was a
 Morehead Scholar.


 On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Correction, make that 41%.  It's not Cherokee but rather  Tom Darden
> (investor, co founder of Cherokee) and Mr. Vaughn (senior analyst at
> Cherokee, BA Economics)  who are the players here.
>
> It'd be good to find out who those other investors are.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Increasing the probability to 44% on the basis of Cherokee PR
>> release.
>>
>> Big big BIG news.   Now this is no longer about Rossi, but about
>> Cherokee.
>>
>> I know you guys think I'm a git for my doubt, but hey, my model is
>> wy ahead of the curve than the vast majority of the investing 
>> universe.
>>XOM is still trading near historical highs, for example.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Increasing the probability back to 35% based on the latest news
>>> coming out of BLP and McKubre.
>>>
>>>  Hopefully we'll see some more encouraging things soon.   The next
>>> indie report on the ecat should be an interesting inflection report.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Fulvio , the tech Director & R.D. at Leonardo Corporation MIAMI -
 FL - USA previous job was:

 " Frelance 
 Consultant

Re: [Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Blaze Spinnaker]

So here's the structure:

5M outstanding, pre-money valuation of 5M
1M share offering.That will be 6M outstanding shares, so 1M will give
you a ~16.6% equity stake.

Here's my baseline assumptions/guesses

No employees
No revenue
They have a distribution agreement with Rossi, but not IH.
Rossi is potentially a shareholder in HydroFusion.
The 1M is really seed money as they try to build a business.

*Question - why not wait until the report and ask for more money?*

I'm going to lower my estimate of Rossi being real based on this stock
offering.  It smells awful.




On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> I don't understand what you mean.
>
>
> 2014-05-21 20:12 GMT-03:00 Blaze Spinnaker :
>
>>  [image: Boxbe]  This message is
>> eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (blazespinna...@gmail.com) Add cleanup
>> rule|
>>  More
>> info
>>
>> Daniel, maybe you could cut down on the obliqueness.   It'd make your
>> postings more intersting.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, no, again!
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-05-21 20:04 GMT-03:00 Blaze Spinnaker :
>>>
  [image: Boxbe]  This message is
 eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (blazespinna...@gmail.com) Add cleanup
 rule|
  More
 info

 Hat tip to e-catworld.  They've been doing some very strong
 investigative reporting on eCat lately.


 http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/

 I have no idea what to make of this, TBH.

 I agree though, why didn't Mats wait for the report?

 Maybe he just jumped the gun though.




>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>

[Vo]:Hydrofusion and Cashing In-- and "Gary Wright"!!!!!

[Ron Kita]

Greetings Vortex-l

As the bottom of the Hydrofusion -Cashing In ..I saw "Gary Wright"!
http://revolution-green.com/who-is-gary-wright/

I guess that this is nothing new.

Ron Kita

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A Relativistic "catalyst" for LENR

[Roarty, Francis X]

Sorry Len, I will endeavor to insert several sentences to act as acceleration 
dampers  in future releases. Take 2 aspirin and you already called me yesterday 
– you are feeling fine tomorrow. Sorry but I am losing phase lock with your 
present temporal coordin…..t…….s…



From: Lennart Thornros [mailto:lenn...@thornros.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 6:59 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A Relativistic "catalyst" for LENR

Once again.
Remarkable lack of negotiation protocol to - not keep things even.
A conditional release should be a minimum after my agreement, which you will 
have tomorrow.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to 
excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM

On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Roarty, Francis X 
mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com>> wrote:
If you thought I couldn’t go any further out on a limb how about UFO 
accelerations and sudden changes in vector being related to a macro form of 
this same posit of inhibiting virtual particles at the nano scale via casimir 
geometry. A macro world version of vacuum suppression would fit well with the 
observations of UFO craft that suddenly seemed to accelerate away, change 
vector and disappear from radar screens or even eluding chase aircraft by what 
we may be visually misinterpreting as acceleration and vector changes. The 
technology would suppress virtual particles such that the entire object shrinks 
90 degrees from our 3D appearing to get more distant but as the chase aircraft 
passes the window where the UFO initiated this type of displacement it 
interprets the parallax of the UFO suddenly zipping away as velocity when it is 
really no more than the trees zipping past your peripheral vision along a 
narrow highway –the 3D ant farm we live in relative to a craft with temporal 
navigation capability.
Fran

Re: [Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Daniel Rocha]

I don't understand what you mean.


2014-05-21 20:12 GMT-03:00 Blaze Spinnaker :

>  [image: Boxbe]  This message is eligible
> for Automatic Cleanup! (blazespinna...@gmail.com) Add cleanup 
> rule|
>  More
> info
>
> Daniel, maybe you could cut down on the obliqueness.   It'd make your
> postings more intersting.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
>> Oh, no, again!
>>
>>
>> 2014-05-21 20:04 GMT-03:00 Blaze Spinnaker :
>>
>>>  [image: Boxbe]  This message is
>>> eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (blazespinna...@gmail.com) Add cleanup
>>> rule|
>>>  More
>>> info
>>>
>>> Hat tip to e-catworld.  They've been doing some very strong
>>> investigative reporting on eCat lately.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/
>>>
>>> I have no idea what to make of this, TBH.
>>>
>>> I agree though, why didn't Mats wait for the report?
>>>
>>> Maybe he just jumped the gun though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Rocha - RJ
>> danieldi...@gmail.com
>>
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Daniel Rocha]

I don't understand what kind of message he would be sending... :S



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Daniel, maybe you could cut down on the obliqueness.   It'd make your
postings more intersting.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> Oh, no, again!
>
>
> 2014-05-21 20:04 GMT-03:00 Blaze Spinnaker :
>
>>  [image: Boxbe]  This message is
>> eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (blazespinna...@gmail.com) Add cleanup
>> rule|
>>  More
>> info
>>
>> Hat tip to e-catworld.  They've been doing some very strong investigative
>> reporting on eCat lately.
>>
>>
>> http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/
>>
>> I have no idea what to make of this, TBH.
>>
>> I agree though, why didn't Mats wait for the report?
>>
>> Maybe he just jumped the gun though.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Blaze Spinnaker]

What was particularly fascinating (as e-catworld also points out, but I did
read this earlier) was the timely shout out by Rossi:

Andrea Rossi
May 18th, 2014 at 11:20
PM

Orsobubu:
Thank you for your comment, that indroduces us to the paper published today
on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:
GEOMETRY OF STRING THEORY SOLITONS
by Dr Magnus Holm . It is an important work of this scientist made in 1999,
but I find his work dense of important information. It is not an easy
reading, the work is rigorous, but this is the Journal of Nuclear Physics,
and the paper is perfectly in line with the field of application of our
Journal. Dr Magnus Holm is presently working also with me for the E-Cat.
About the comment of our friend Orsobubu: I do not share his certainties
regarding the so called “social sciences”.
Warm Regards,
A.R.


Is Rossi sending a message to potential sharebuyers that Magnus Holm is the
real deal?  Is Rossi getting a kickback from Hydrofusion?


Man, this freaks me out!


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Blaze Spinnaker
wrote:

> Hat tip to e-catworld.  They've been doing some very strong investigative
> reporting on eCat lately.
>
>
> http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/
>
> I have no idea what to make of this, TBH.
>
> I agree though, why didn't Mats wait for the report?
>
> Maybe he just jumped the gun though.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Daniel Rocha]

Oh, no, again!


2014-05-21 20:04 GMT-03:00 Blaze Spinnaker :

>  [image: Boxbe]  This message is eligible
> for Automatic Cleanup! (blazespinna...@gmail.com) Add cleanup 
> rule|
>  More
> info
>
> Hat tip to e-catworld.  They've been doing some very strong investigative
> reporting on eCat lately.
>
>
> http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/
>
> I have no idea what to make of this, TBH.
>
> I agree though, why didn't Mats wait for the report?
>
> Maybe he just jumped the gun though.
>
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Cyril Smith Paper may have relevance to LENR

[Nigel Dyer]

I have been looking at copper because it has an interesting relationship 
with the DNA triple helix.There is no evidence that iron has such an 
intimate relationship.   The Copper 2+ ion is magnetic, and is 
borderline between being ferro and ferri magnetic, and I suspect that 
biology has learnt how to make good use of this marginal state.
What is then interesting is the possibility of coupling between the 
copper atom's spin state and the spin state of protons of the water 
associated with the DNA.
If anything, what mobile phone usage demonstrates is how resiliant the 
brain is to EM interference, in that while I have no dount it has some 
effect, it is nevertheless very subtle.

Nigel

On 21/05/2014 17:53, Jones Beene wrote:

-Original Message-
From: Nigel Dyer


And not just LENR. I am currently looking at how this may occur in the

copper that is associated with DNA/DNA/RNA triple helixes



Cyril Smith says: "If we wish to use Larmor precessions as charge pumps,

but without external microwaves maintaining the FMR resonance, we need
another method for cohering the precessions. There is an argument that, in a
ferromagnetic conductor, phase-locking of the individual lattice precessions
can be achieved by spin-spin coupling to and from conduction electrons ...

Nigel - Why not iron, instead of copper? Out of curiosity, I did a brief
googling to see if DNA has an associated RF resonance. This turned up:

"Biophysicists have demonstrated that DNA... resonantly absorbs
electromagnetic energy in the microwave range of the frequency spectrum...
They have found in their experiments that microwaves in the 300 MHz to 3 GHz
range can be thermally absorbed by causing a dipolar molecule, such as water
to oscillate in a frictional media, thereby dissipating the energy in the
form of heat..."

... which seems a bit high for Larmor precession and seems to be a relic of
water, not DNA, but it is one more reason why cell phones are not
recommended for constant use by teenagers (since the range overlaps)

[Vo]:Hydrofusion stock offering and analysis by freeenergyscams

[Blaze Spinnaker]

Hat tip to e-catworld.  They've been doing some very strong investigative
reporting on eCat lately.

http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-e-cat-hydro-fusion-cashing-in-before-the-collapse/

I have no idea what to make of this, TBH.

I agree though, why didn't Mats wait for the report?

Maybe he just jumped the gun though.

Re: [Vo]:A Relativistic "catalyst" for LENR

[Lennart Thornros]

Once again.
Remarkable lack of negotiation protocol to - not keep things even.
A conditional release should be a minimum after my agreement, which you
will have tomorrow.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:

>  If you thought I couldn’t go any further out on a limb how about UFO
> accelerations and sudden changes in vector being related to a macro form of
> this same posit of inhibiting virtual particles at the nano scale via
> casimir geometry. A macro world version of vacuum suppression would fit
> well with the observations of UFO craft that suddenly seemed to accelerate
> away, change vector and disappear from radar screens or even eluding chase
> aircraft by what we may be visually misinterpreting as acceleration and
> vector changes. The technology would suppress virtual particles such that
> the entire object shrinks 90 degrees from our 3D appearing to get more
> distant but as the chase aircraft passes the window where the UFO initiated
> this type of displacement it interprets the parallax of the UFO suddenly
> zipping away as velocity when it is really no more than the trees zipping
> past your peripheral vision along a narrow highway –the 3D ant farm we live
> in relative to a craft with temporal navigation capability.
> Fran
>
>

RE: [Vo]:A Relativistic "catalyst" for LENR

[Roarty, Francis X]

If you thought I couldn't go any further out on a limb how about UFO 
accelerations and sudden changes in vector being related to a macro form of 
this same posit of inhibiting virtual particles at the nano scale via casimir 
geometry. A macro world version of vacuum suppression would fit well with the 
observations of UFO craft that suddenly seemed to accelerate away, change 
vector and disappear from radar screens or even eluding chase aircraft by what 
we may be visually misinterpreting as acceleration and vector changes. The 
technology would suppress virtual particles such that the entire object shrinks 
90 degrees from our 3D appearing to get more distant but as the chase aircraft 
passes the window where the UFO initiated this type of displacement it 
interprets the parallax of the UFO suddenly zipping away as velocity when it is 
really no more than the trees zipping past your peripheral vision along a 
narrow highway -the 3D ant farm we live in relative to a craft with temporal 
navigation capability.
Fran

Re: [Vo]:A Relativistic "catalyst" for LENR

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:


> By inadvertent catalyst, the implication is that a "hidden" element is
> found
> in nickel, going back to the natural ore - at a low percentage which would
> not be mentioned. This addition is often called a "dopant" when it is added
> knowingly. The person who buys this alloy as a catalyst, may not appreciate
> why it is active, but may know that it comes only from one supplier - or
> from one mining location - so he always purchases from that source.
>

It could be something like that. McKubre often points out that the Pd
sample that worked best was the most impure one, from Engelhard. It must
have been something in the metal other than Pd that made it work so well. I
guess it might have been the morphology, but it seems more likely it was
the trace elements.



> Monel alloy 400 today is an alloy of the
> same proportions of nickel and copper as is found naturally in the nickel
> ore from the Sudbury Ontario mine and was once only available from there.


Yup. Nowadays the mass spectrometers are so sensitive, they can find traces
of this or that no matter how small, so the metallurgists can recreate the
natural product.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:A Relativistic "catalyst" for LENR

[Roarty, Francis X]

Jones, good posit regarding Hg, I hope someone tries it.I recently blind 
copied you an email with citations for both Naudt's paper on relativistic 
hydrogen and a Russian paper on relativistic effects inside Casimir geometry 
but don't have access to it presently. I think this means that the entire 
region is dilated by the cavity -more than just the electrons are relativistic 
- that the shrunken orbital also surrounds a shrunken proton "from our 
perspective" but locally the atom is unaware of the Lorentzian contraction and 
is careening along at fractions of C on an axis that to us appears to be 90 
degrees from 3D and causes the contraction to appear symmetrical from all 
directions instead of the single axis of contraction a rocketship near C 
spatial displacement would exhibit to the stationary observer. Strange as it 
seems I think we the stationary observers outside the cavity become the near C 
paradox twin relative to the hydrogen atoms experiencing modified space time of 
Casimir regions - my bet is that anomalous radioactive decay rates claims would 
be much higher if we could only measure the atoms exposed to these regions but 
lab equipment is averaging them all down as part of the  larger gas 
population.[I also believe virtual particles "grow" into existence and then 
"shrink" back out due to a trajectory on this same perpendicular to 3D axis]. 
From it's own local perspective these gas atoms are just as fast as the near C 
hydrogen atoms being ejected from the suns corona... IMHO what we currently 
explain as catalytic action is actually an averaging out of small portions of 
mobile atomic populations being exposed to vigorous changes in Casimir geometry.
Fran

_
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:20 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:A Relativistic "catalyst" for LENR


Could the reason that the Rossi effect is not understood relate to an 
"inadvertent" catalyst?

By inadvertent catalyst, the implication is that a "hidden" element is found in 
nickel, going back to the natural ore - at a low percentage which would not be 
mentioned. This addition is often called a "dopant" when it is added knowingly. 
The person who buys this alloy as a catalyst, may not appreciate why it is 
active, but may know that it comes only from one supplier - or from one mining 
location - so he always purchases from that source.

This can be known as a "Puritan alloy" if it comes from one mine only. It 
should be noted that a few famous commercial alloys were first found in nature 
in only one place on earth. Monel alloy 400 today is an alloy of the same 
proportions of nickel and copper as is found naturally in the nickel ore from 
the Sudbury Ontario mine and was once only available from there. It is 
mentioned only as an example of how a low percentage element could find its way 
into an application, even without the purchaser's knowledge.

Fran Roarty often brings up relativistic effects of hydrogen (as in the Naudts 
paper) being responsible for a particular fractional hydrogen state f/H which 
is non-Millsean, but often quoted by Mills supporters as if it was part of his 
theory. In fact, this form of f/H preceded Mills by decades and should not be 
labeled with the trademarked "H-word".

In addition to this highly energetic state of hydrogen, which essentially 
consists of a proton orbited by a relativistic electron, which can be much more 
massive due to its velocity, there is the possibility of a catalyst which will 
induce this state and even participate in the ongoing reaction, which can be 
non-nuclear but highly energetic (well above chemical).

There are only a few choices for dopant elements of this type (relativistic 
catalysts) - and one which has come up wrt Rossi should be mentioned, 
especially as alloying agent or dopant for nickel. Mercury (Hg) is the main 
one. It has been avoided by many in LENR because of its toxicity. It is a 
dangerous element and should not be handled carelessly unless you want to 
become a mad-hatter, so to speak.

It should be noted that Mercury is never used in commercial alloys for two 
simple reasons- it is costly, valuable and worth 100 times more than nickel 
alone - so it would be removed and resold ... and importantly, Hg promotes 
stress-cracking in Ni !

However, there is the possibility that Hg could turn up in a dedicated 
catalyst, inadvertently or in processing. The promotion of cracking would be 
reason enough to try Hg as a dopant with nickel, to the extent that one 
believed cracking was an important parameter - and it could be of even greater 
importance in a Casimir cavity as well.

Mercury is one of a few metals or eutectics which remain a liquid down to 
fairly low temperature, and notable for Hg alone is the gas-phase. Mercury is a 
singularity in the periodic table in that it can exist as a monatomic gas, 
usually denoted as Hg(g). This

Re: [Vo]:Scientists discover how to turn light into matter after 80-year quest

[mixent]

In reply to  Jack Cole's message of Tue, 20 May 2014 21:13:21 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>http://phys.org/news/2014-05-scientists-year-quest.html

I think the simplest way to turn light into matter happens every time an atom
absorbs a photon. ;)

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Lennart Thornros]

It is irrelevant:
1.  if DGT has the Canadian stock market to deal with or the Greek ditto.
2. if they have an idea (theory or experiment) that at some time will work.
3. if they will sue someone or be sued.
.
.
.100 if xx
They have been criticized for a year and they have not provided any real
work to show they have anything of value as far as LENR goes.
One does not have to give "the benefit of doubt" forever.
As Axil is saying it is the buyers responsibility to do due diligence and
it is done . Thay failed.
Unfortunately they have caused great harm to the field of LENR.
The likelihood that investors will support new ideas within this area is
cut in half with each fraudulent behavior.
You guys are better mathematicians than I am so you know Rohnert, DGT -  we
need no more.
Let me just meet the objection I will hear; "It is not proven they are
fraudulent"
Unfortunately after a few proven frauds and a few entities with
questionable promises DGT has easily past the limit.

I appreciate (but cannot fully understand) the technical scientific
discussions here. However, the business requirements are
handled with to much lenience. I have said it before but only science is
not going to reach the goal.   The opposite is true
that enough poor business behavior will make it impossible to reach the
scientific/technology goal.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com
lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899
6140 Horseshoe Bar Road Suite G, Loomis CA 95650

“Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment
to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:37 AM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> Why are you sure it was not to sabotage or just see the degree of threat?
>
>
> 2014-05-21 13:29 GMT-03:00 Alain Sepeda :
>
> I thanks Shell to have funded CNAM for a test in France.
>> for Amoco to have let a skunkwork team test in their garage
>> for ENI/SAIPEM to have sent staff to E-cat conferences, to ILENRS12...
>>
>>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Cyril Smith Paper may have relevance to LENR

[Alain Sepeda]

recent data on kids, shows that the consumption of antibiotic while young
kid is doubling asthman and alergy...

more generally the hygiena hypothesis seems validated since long and denied
by mainstream because of inconvenient conclusion that don't please the
"whistleblowers" that have their prefered scapegoat.


2014-05-21 18:57 GMT+02:00 ChemE Stewart :

> 50 million in US with autoimmune diseases and growing.  We are cooked (by
> microwaves)
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 21, 2014, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Nigel Dyer
>>
>> > And not just LENR. I am currently looking at how this may occur in the
>> copper that is associated with DNA/DNA/RNA triple helixes
>>
>>
>> >> Cyril Smith says: "If we wish to use Larmor precessions as charge
>> pumps,
>> but without external microwaves maintaining the FMR resonance, we need
>> another method for cohering the precessions. There is an argument that,
>> in a
>> ferromagnetic conductor, phase-locking of the individual lattice
>> precessions
>> can be achieved by spin-spin coupling to and from conduction electrons ...
>>
>> Nigel - Why not iron, instead of copper? Out of curiosity, I did a brief
>> googling to see if DNA has an associated RF resonance. This turned up:
>>
>> "Biophysicists have demonstrated that DNA... resonantly absorbs
>> electromagnetic energy in the microwave range of the frequency spectrum...
>> They have found in their experiments that microwaves in the 300 MHz to 3
>> GHz
>> range can be thermally absorbed by causing a dipolar molecule, such as
>> water
>> to oscillate in a frictional media, thereby dissipating the energy in the
>> form of heat..."
>>
>> ... which seems a bit high for Larmor precession and seems to be a relic
>> of
>> water, not DNA, but it is one more reason why cell phones are not
>> recommended for constant use by teenagers (since the range overlaps)
>>
>>
>>

RE: [Vo]:Cyril Smith Paper may have relevance to LENR

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton 

> In consideration of the recent posting regarding converting light into
mass, the upper limit of energy density is set by the speed of light at 2.5
x 10^13 Wh/kg… Such process would not necessarily involve any nucleus.


Yes - Exactamundo… this is the crux of my post to Eric - that high energy
density alone does not necessarily imply nuclear energy … (unless of course,
one chooses to define anything higher than chemical as nuclear - which is
not a valid definition). For instance, relativistic electron pumping via
Dirac mechanics would not be "nuclear".

Jones
<>

Re: [Vo]:Cyril Smith Paper may have relevance to LENR

[ChemE Stewart]

50 million in US with autoimmune diseases and growing.  We are cooked (by
microwaves)

On Wednesday, May 21, 2014, Jones Beene  wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: Nigel Dyer
>
> > And not just LENR. I am currently looking at how this may occur in the
> copper that is associated with DNA/DNA/RNA triple helixes
>
>
> >> Cyril Smith says: "If we wish to use Larmor precessions as charge pumps,
> but without external microwaves maintaining the FMR resonance, we need
> another method for cohering the precessions. There is an argument that, in
> a
> ferromagnetic conductor, phase-locking of the individual lattice
> precessions
> can be achieved by spin-spin coupling to and from conduction electrons ...
>
> Nigel - Why not iron, instead of copper? Out of curiosity, I did a brief
> googling to see if DNA has an associated RF resonance. This turned up:
>
> "Biophysicists have demonstrated that DNA... resonantly absorbs
> electromagnetic energy in the microwave range of the frequency spectrum...
> They have found in their experiments that microwaves in the 300 MHz to 3
> GHz
> range can be thermally absorbed by causing a dipolar molecule, such as
> water
> to oscillate in a frictional media, thereby dissipating the energy in the
> form of heat..."
>
> ... which seems a bit high for Larmor precession and seems to be a relic of
> water, not DNA, but it is one more reason why cell phones are not
> recommended for constant use by teenagers (since the range overlaps)
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Cyril Smith Paper may have relevance to LENR

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Nigel Dyer 

> And not just LENR. I am currently looking at how this may occur in the
copper that is associated with DNA/DNA/RNA triple helixes


>> Cyril Smith says: "If we wish to use Larmor precessions as charge pumps,
but without external microwaves maintaining the FMR resonance, we need
another method for cohering the precessions. There is an argument that, in a
ferromagnetic conductor, phase-locking of the individual lattice precessions
can be achieved by spin-spin coupling to and from conduction electrons ...

Nigel - Why not iron, instead of copper? Out of curiosity, I did a brief
googling to see if DNA has an associated RF resonance. This turned up:

"Biophysicists have demonstrated that DNA... resonantly absorbs
electromagnetic energy in the microwave range of the frequency spectrum...
They have found in their experiments that microwaves in the 300 MHz to 3 GHz
range can be thermally absorbed by causing a dipolar molecule, such as water
to oscillate in a frictional media, thereby dissipating the energy in the
form of heat..."

... which seems a bit high for Larmor precession and seems to be a relic of
water, not DNA, but it is one more reason why cell phones are not
recommended for constant use by teenagers (since the range overlaps)


<>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Daniel Rocha]

Why are you sure it was not to sabotage or just see the degree of threat?


2014-05-21 13:29 GMT-03:00 Alain Sepeda :

> I thanks Shell to have funded CNAM for a test in France.
> for Amoco to have let a skunkwork team test in their garage
> for ENI/SAIPEM to have sent staff to E-cat conferences, to ILENRS12...
>
>
-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Cyril Smith Paper may have relevance to LENR

[Nigel Dyer]

And not just LENR.  I am currently looking at how this may occur in the 
copper that is associated with DNA/DNA/RNA triple helixes


Nigel
On 20/05/2014 16:28, Jones Beene wrote:

With all the recent talk about the overlooked magnetic component of LENR -
and spin coupling - at least for Ni-H and the Rossi effect, here is an
excellent older paper which may contain insight on another piece of the
puzzle, even if it was written to explain a completely different phenomenon
(the Hans Coler effect)

For this paper to be particularly relevant to Ni-H, we would need to take a
closer look at the function of the resistance heater in the E-Cat. Is the
50/60 cycle input providing a hidden function in cohering magnetic
precession somehow? Coherence could be inadvertent. It would be interesting
to know if the 60 cycle AC in the USA has different effects than the 50
cycles of Italy since Larmor frequencies are typically microwave spectra.

Cyril Smith says: "If we wish to use Larmor precessions as charge pumps, but
without external microwaves maintaining the FMR resonance, we need another
method for cohering the precessions. There is an argument that, in a
ferromagnetic conductor, phase-locking of the individual lattice precessions
can be achieved by spin-spin coupling to and from conduction electrons, the
conduction electrons themselves must precess and could therefore transport
phase across the lattice."
http://www.overunity.com/14614/the-bearden-meg/dlattach/attach/138654/

Larmor Precessions as Charge Pumps by Cyril Smith, July 2007

"There is currently great interest in generating dc currents via spin
dynamics. This
comes from the emerging science of spintronics where research efforts are
directed
towards new means for investigating spin dynamics and development of new
spin
sources. Not surprisingly these efforts concentrate on spin transport, used
as a digital
signal, which offers lower losses than the dissipative charge transport used
in modern
computers. However spin dynamics can also influence charge transport, which
has a
wider application than computing. With global issues forcing new interest in
sustainable energy sources, the prospect of power generation from quantum
spin is
appealing and worthy of serious consideration. Only in recent years has
science
demonstrated the realization of pumping electrons 'uphill' (i.e. against a
potential
gradient) in what has been called quantum ratchets." END of quote

The specific reason that charge pumping by Larmor precession could be
relevant to LENR is to be found in the recurrent hints of oscillation
between ferromagnetism and antiferromagnetic states in the active material
near the Curie point. This could be an important clue in the context of
precession powering the oscillation, yet there are missing pieces of the
puzzle.

As to exactly why this oscillation creates the Ni-H thermal anomaly, we
would almost certainly need to abandon a nuclear fusion scenario in place of
gain via Dirac sea interaction. Since many observers seem wedded to a fusion
scenario, despite the lack of any relevant indicia of a nuclear reaction,
this insight from Cyril may be limited to those on the "fringe of the
fringe."

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Alain Sepeda]

I thanks Shell to have funded CNAM for a test in France.
for Amoco to have let a skunkwork team test in their garage
for ENI/SAIPEM to have sent staff to E-cat conferences, to ILENRS12...

You know, Areva will do off-shore wind turbine.
modern corps don't oppose revolution, they capture it.
I am more afraid of néo-Malthusians and néo-luddites.


2014-05-21 16:58 GMT+02:00 Daniel Rocha :

> Perhaps the oil lobby was not so intense there and they had only to deal
> with nuclear authorities?
>
>
> 2014-05-21 11:53 GMT-03:00 Steve High :
>
>  IIRC, a while back somebody proposed that the reason Defkalion wanted to
>> go on the Canadian stock market was that there was less supervision in
>> Canada regarding potentially fraudulent stock market offerings than under
>> the American SEC.
>>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>

Re: [Vo]:Cyril Smith Paper may have relevance to LENR

[Terry Blanton]

In consideration of the recent posting regarding converting light into
mass, the upper limit of energy density is set by the speed of light
at 2.5 x 10^13 Wh/kg.  Although the scientists have not actually
converted photons to electrons and positrons, a controlled reverse
process can be conceived which could achieve the upper limit.  Such
process would not necessarily involve any nucleus.

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Jed Rothwell]

Alain Sepeda  wrote:


> The second is however that if it was a mistake, or even a temporary
> failure during a demo, and even if the demo was indeed tweaked as Luca
> describe, Defkalion had 9 month, in private or in public, to reassure Luca
> himself, and why not us.
>

I agree. They should have given Gamberale  the reports from the 12
scientists (assuming those reports exist).

When this first happened, I heard there was a problem with flow rate a few
days later. I assumed it was a glitch on the day of ICCF18. I figured they
would fix it and try again. I posted messages here saying, "they should
practice, and then do another public demo." I never imagined they had never
done it right! I stopped paying attention and I did not learn that until
the Gamberale report came out.



> In the case, the case I judge as sign of "huge lack of wisdom", that
> despite not answering to luca, Defkalion anyway have a working reactor in
> it's lab, it should let Luca test it (even if only calorimetry is allowed,
> only but all calorimetry method), or if they don't trust him, let a third
> party make a boiler test and inform Luca.
>

Exactly.



> however something irrational, desperate, paranoid, have happened...
> whether it was wishful thinking, self-delusion, conspiracy theories, it is
> no more our business.
>

If they make claims in public it is our business to some extent.



>  A boiler test made by a non physicist team (why not electricians and
> plumbers, experience in testing), would give a solid answer and no risk of
> IP leak.
>

Yes!



> By the way I feel it is absurd to ask physicist to do calorimetry ... it
> is a job of plumbers, electricians, their engineer counter parts,
> petrochemist, boiler testers,   or at worst of industry chemist.
>

Yes again, as I pointed out when I referenced Title 10, Part 430.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Daniel Rocha]

Perhaps the oil lobby was not so intense there and they had only to deal
with nuclear authorities?


2014-05-21 11:53 GMT-03:00 Steve High :

> IIRC, a while back somebody proposed that the reason Defkalion wanted to
> go on the Canadian stock market was that there was less supervision in
> Canada regarding potentially fraudulent stock market offerings than under
> the American SEC.
>

-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Steve High]

IIRC, a while back somebody proposed that the reason Defkalion wanted to go on 
the Canadian stock market was that there was less supervision in Canada 
regarding potentially fraudulent stock market offerings than under the American 
SEC. There was that seemingly bright moment about a year ago when DFK was 
apparently ready to  go public on the Canadian market. 

Steve High

On May 21, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:

> Isn't SEC something from US? DGT doesn't have business in US as far as I know.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Axil Axil]

In procurement of systems, it is the buyer's responsibility to do due
diligence:

*Due diligence*" is a term used for a number of concepts, involving either
an investigation of a business or person prior to signing a contract, or an
act with a certain standard of care.

It can be a legal obligation, but the term will more commonly apply to
voluntary investigations. A common example of due diligence in various
industries is the process through which a potential acquirer evaluates a
target system for an acquisition.

*DGT is providing a technology, not a system in the same way that a
software vendor provides an operating environment that software is
developed on. Such a technology could be insufficient but not fraudulent.*





On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> At this juncture, cold fusion is not a subject where the words " criminal
>> statute", fraud, NDA, jail, and "illegal actions" apply.
>>
>
> Of course it is! If Defkalion knows their machine does not work, but they
> are trying to sell it for millions of dollars, that is criminal fraud.
>
> Companies are often prosecuted for knowingly selling machines that do not
> work.
>
> - Jed
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Dual Carbon Battery

[Chris Zell]

I do recall aluminum chloride/bromide batteries that used carbon electrodes in 
the patents. Actually, I'm not sure what wasn't practical about such moderately 
molten battteries.

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Daniel Rocha]

Isn't SEC something from US? DGT doesn't have business in US as far as I
know.


>

-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Steve High]

Well we could perform sort of a thought experiment and imagine that Defkalion 
had been issuing stock under the auspices of the SEC. My hunch is that at this 
point they would be at or over the undefined line that John Rohner crossed when 
he got busted. I think that what happened with Rohner was that several of his 
stockholders had suffered all they could take and loudly complained to the SEC 
which duly took action. The SEC complaint specifically stated that there was no 
evidence that Rohner's process was based in reality and was therefore 
fraudulent. And Rohner was loudly proclaiming that he had  a functional device 
which he clearly did not. Still a little wiggle room left for Defkalion I would 
think, provided they are actually able to demonstrate something producing at 
least a little excess heat

Steve High

On May 21, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Papp was grated a patent for the Papp engine and was in fact awarded patent 
> of the year honors for his design and demonstration.
> 
> IMHO, this patent puts the Papp engine in another category from cold fusion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Steve High  wrote:
>> Somebody wanted to know if there was a precedent for the authorities taking 
>> legal action in a cold fusion case. Well let's not neglect to consider crazy 
>> John Rohner and his Intelligentry corporation. Admittedly not cold fusion 
>> but definitely related. The Plasmic Transition Process descendent of the 
>> Papp Engine. Well John Rohner crossed some undefined line and was soundly 
>> busted by the SEC. All assets seized, fever dreams of bursting plasma 
>> transformed into feverish conspiracy theory sputterings about govt 
>> interference. 
>> 
>> Steve High
>> 
>> On May 21, 2014, at 1:38 AM, "Kevin O'Malley"  wrote:
>> 
>>> The legal system DOES rely on precedent.  And there's tons of it when it 
>>> comes to fraud.  Is cold fusion supposed to be somehow exempt?  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
 I thought that the legal system worked on precedent. That is how the legal 
 system provides consistency.
 
 
 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:29 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
  wrote:
> Axil, that's not how the legal system works.  There are no "cold fusion 
> laws".
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>> Just one legal case dealing will cold fusion please, just one.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:24 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
>>  wrote:
>>> Axil, if you lie to someone that something does something it doesn't 
>>> work so they give you money, that's Fraud.   
>>> 
>>> You can use a dictionary, if you like.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
 To support your opinion, please provide legal precedent pursuant to 
 pink unicorn fairy dust or cold fusion: just one please.
 
 
 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:14 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
  wrote:
> The subject matter is meaningless.  The subject could be pink unicorn 
> fairy dust.   
> 
> What matters if money changed hands over misrepresentation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Axil Axil  
> wrote:
>> At this juncture, cold fusion is not a subject where the words " 
>> criminal statute", fraud, NDA, jail, and "illegal actions" apply. 
>> When a valid patent is granted and the field of cold fusion becomes 
>> generally accepted in the real world, then DGT might well fell it 
>> legally possible to bring  Gamberale to account.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
>>  wrote:
>>> Interesting point, Jed. 
>>> 
>>> I wonder if this is why DGT is reluctant to sue him, because Luca 
>>> would have to prove himself by saying that DGT was fraudulent and 
>>> they don't want to have to defend against that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Jed Rothwell 
>>>  wrote:
 Blaze Spinnaker  wrote:
  
> The problem with busting your NDA so openly is that it's going to 
> be impossible to get anyone to trust you again.
 
 As I pointed out elsewhere, if Gamberale had not "busted his NDA 
 openly," warned the customers, and closed down the company, he 
 could end up in jail. Defkalion cannot enforce an NDA that calls 
 for the person under that NDA to commit fraud. You cannot abide by 
 an NDA contract that calls for illegal actions. Defkalion cannot 
 enforce that, or sue for breach of contract. You cannot sue 
 someone in civil court because they refused to violate a criminal 
 statute.
>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Jed Rothwell]

Blaze Spinnaker  wrote:

The subject matter is meaningless.  The subject could be pink unicorn fairy
> dust.
>
> What matters if money changed hands over misrepresentation.
>

Exactly right.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

At this juncture, cold fusion is not a subject where the words " criminal
> statute", fraud, NDA, jail, and "illegal actions" apply.
>

Of course it is! If Defkalion knows their machine does not work, but they
are trying to sell it for millions of dollars, that is criminal fraud.

Companies are often prosecuted for knowingly selling machines that do not
work.

- Jed

[Vo]:A Relativistic "catalyst" for LENR

[Jones Beene]

Could the reason that the Rossi effect is not understood relate to an
"inadvertent" catalyst?

By inadvertent catalyst, the implication is that a "hidden" element is found
in nickel, going back to the natural ore - at a low percentage which would
not be mentioned. This addition is often called a "dopant" when it is added
knowingly. The person who buys this alloy as a catalyst, may not appreciate
why it is active, but may know that it comes only from one supplier - or
from one mining location - so he always purchases from that source.

This can be known as a "Puritan alloy" if it comes from one mine only. It
should be noted that a few famous commercial alloys were first found in
nature in only one place on earth. Monel alloy 400 today is an alloy of the
same proportions of nickel and copper as is found naturally in the nickel
ore from the Sudbury Ontario mine and was once only available from there. It
is mentioned only as an example of how a low percentage element could find
its way into an application, even without the purchaser's knowledge.

Fran Roarty often brings up relativistic effects of hydrogen (as in the
Naudts paper) being responsible for a particular fractional hydrogen state
f/H which is non-Millsean, but often quoted by Mills supporters as if it was
part of his theory. In fact, this form of f/H preceded Mills by decades and
should not be labeled with the trademarked "H-word".

In addition to this highly energetic state of hydrogen, which essentially
consists of a proton orbited by a relativistic electron, which can be much
more massive due to its velocity, there is the possibility of a catalyst
which will induce this state and even participate in the ongoing reaction,
which can be non-nuclear but highly energetic (well above chemical). 

There are only a few choices for dopant elements of this type (relativistic
catalysts) - and one which has come up wrt Rossi should be mentioned,
especially as alloying agent or dopant for nickel. Mercury (Hg) is the main
one. It has been avoided by many in LENR because of its toxicity. It is a
dangerous element and should not be handled carelessly unless you want to
become a mad-hatter, so to speak.

It should be noted that Mercury is never used in commercial alloys for two
simple reasons- it is costly, valuable and worth 100 times more than nickel
alone - so it would be removed and resold ... and importantly, Hg promotes
stress-cracking in Ni !  

However, there is the possibility that Hg could turn up in a dedicated
catalyst, inadvertently or in processing. The promotion of cracking would be
reason enough to try Hg as a dopant with nickel, to the extent that one
believed cracking was an important parameter - and it could be of even
greater importance in a Casimir cavity as well.

Mercury is one of a few metals or eutectics which remain a liquid down to
fairly low temperature, and notable for Hg alone is the gas-phase. Mercury
is a singularity in the periodic table in that it can exist as a monatomic
gas, usually denoted as Hg(g). This lack of bonding is due to electron
contraction by relativistic effects - which explains why the bonding for
Hg-Hg is weak enough to allow for Hg to be a liquid at room temperature.

HgH - mercury hydride is an unstable gas because of the electronegativity of
mercury is lower than that of hydrogen. The Hg-H bond is very weak and
therefore the compound has only been matrix isolated but it should exist in
a porous Casimir cavity where the weak bond dynamics can be exploited. The
Hg-H bond should promote spin coupling.

All things considered, Hg looks on paper like an interesting
catalyst/reactant for LENR. Could Hg turn up as a dopant in some alloys of
nickel naturally? Or could it have been added by intentionally and silently
by AR's supplier ? We have noted before that Rossi mentions "Gerli Metalli"
as the company from Milan which is his supplier, but that could be
deceptive...

... or not. Here is the web site, if you are interested.
http://www.gerlimetalli.it/inglese/ihome.htm

Ask for the "Rossi special" with a side of Mercury... (say, Alice, doesn't
AR remind one of the Mad Hatter?)

Jones
<>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Axil Axil]

Papp was grated a patent for the Papp engine and was in fact awarded patent
of the year honors for his design and demonstration.

IMHO, this patent puts the Papp engine in another category from cold fusion.




On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Steve High  wrote:

> Somebody wanted to know if there was a precedent for the authorities
> taking legal action in a cold fusion case. Well let's not neglect to
> consider crazy John Rohner and his Intelligentry corporation. Admittedly
> not cold fusion but definitely related. The Plasmic Transition Process
> descendent of the Papp Engine. Well John Rohner crossed some undefined line
> and was soundly busted by the SEC. All assets seized, fever dreams of
> bursting plasma transformed into feverish conspiracy theory sputterings
> about govt interference.
>
> Steve High
>
> On May 21, 2014, at 1:38 AM, "Kevin O'Malley"  wrote:
>
> The legal system DOES rely on precedent.  And there's tons of it when it
> comes to fraud.  Is cold fusion supposed to be somehow exempt?
>
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> I thought that the legal system worked on precedent. That is how the
>> legal system provides consistency.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:29 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Axil, that's not how the legal system works.  There are no "cold fusion
>>> laws".
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 Just one legal case dealing will cold fusion please, just one.


 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:24 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Axil, if you lie to someone that something does something it doesn't
> work so they give you money, that's Fraud.
>
> You can use a dictionary, if you like.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Axil Axil wrote:
>
>> To support your opinion, please provide legal precedent pursuant to
>> pink unicorn fairy dust or cold fusion: just one please.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:14 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
>> blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The subject matter is meaningless.  The subject could be pink
>>> unicorn fairy dust.
>>>
>>> What matters if money changed hands over misrepresentation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Axil Axil wrote:
>>>
 At this juncture, cold fusion is not a subject where the words "
 criminal statute", fraud, NDA, jail, and "illegal actions" apply. When 
 a
 valid patent is granted and the field of cold fusion becomes generally
 accepted in the real world, then DGT might well fell it legally 
 possible to
 bring  Gamberale to account.


 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Blaze Spinnaker <
 blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Interesting point, Jed.
>
> I wonder if this is why DGT is reluctant to sue him, because Luca
> would have to prove himself by saying that DGT was fraudulent and they
> don't want to have to defend against that.
>
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Jed Rothwell <
> jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Blaze Spinnaker  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The problem with busting your NDA so openly is that it's going
>>> to be impossible to get anyone to trust you again.
>>>
>>
>> As I pointed out elsewhere, if Gamberale had not "busted his NDA
>> openly," warned the customers, and closed down the company, he could 
>> end up
>> in jail. Defkalion cannot enforce an NDA that calls for the person 
>> under
>> that NDA to commit fraud. You cannot abide by an NDA contract that 
>> calls
>> for illegal actions. Defkalion cannot enforce that, or sue for 
>> breach of
>> contract. You cannot sue someone in civil court because they refused 
>> to
>> violate a criminal statute.
>>
>> It may be difficult for Gamberale to get anyone to trust him now,
>> but if he had continued it would have impossible for him to get the 
>> police
>> to believe him, which is a far worse predicament.
>>
>> This is real life. You cannot go around trying to sell
>> non-working machines for millions of dollars. People who have 
>> millions of
>> dollars will definitely go to the authorities when they find out you 
>> have
>> robbed them. This is not like selling fake Rolex watches from a 
>> suitcase on
>> Broadway.
>>
>
>

>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Steve High]

Somebody wanted to know if there was a precedent for the authorities taking 
legal action in a cold fusion case. Well let's not neglect to consider crazy 
John Rohner and his Intelligentry corporation. Admittedly not cold fusion but 
definitely related. The Plasmic Transition Process descendent of the Papp 
Engine. Well John Rohner crossed some undefined line and was soundly busted by 
the SEC. All assets seized, fever dreams of bursting plasma transformed into 
feverish conspiracy theory sputterings about govt interference. 

Steve High

On May 21, 2014, at 1:38 AM, "Kevin O'Malley"  wrote:

> The legal system DOES rely on precedent.  And there's tons of it when it 
> comes to fraud.  Is cold fusion supposed to be somehow exempt?  
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>> I thought that the legal system worked on precedent. That is how the legal 
>> system provides consistency.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:29 AM, Blaze Spinnaker  
>> wrote:
>>> Axil, that's not how the legal system works.  There are no "cold fusion 
>>> laws".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
 Just one legal case dealing will cold fusion please, just one.
 
 
 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:24 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
  wrote:
> Axil, if you lie to someone that something does something it doesn't work 
> so they give you money, that's Fraud.   
> 
> You can use a dictionary, if you like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>> To support your opinion, please provide legal precedent pursuant to pink 
>> unicorn fairy dust or cold fusion: just one please.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 1:14 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
>>  wrote:
>>> The subject matter is meaningless.  The subject could be pink unicorn 
>>> fairy dust.   
>>> 
>>> What matters if money changed hands over misrepresentation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
 At this juncture, cold fusion is not a subject where the words " 
 criminal statute", fraud, NDA, jail, and "illegal actions" apply. When 
 a valid patent is granted and the field of cold fusion becomes 
 generally accepted in the real world, then DGT might well fell it 
 legally possible to bring  Gamberale to account.
 
 
 On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:03 AM, Blaze Spinnaker 
  wrote:
> Interesting point, Jed. 
> 
> I wonder if this is why DGT is reluctant to sue him, because Luca 
> would have to prove himself by saying that DGT was fraudulent and 
> they don't want to have to defend against that.
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Jed Rothwell  
> wrote:
>> Blaze Spinnaker  wrote:
>>  
>>> The problem with busting your NDA so openly is that it's going to 
>>> be impossible to get anyone to trust you again.
>> 
>> As I pointed out elsewhere, if Gamberale had not "busted his NDA 
>> openly," warned the customers, and closed down the company, he could 
>> end up in jail. Defkalion cannot enforce an NDA that calls for the 
>> person under that NDA to commit fraud. You cannot abide by an NDA 
>> contract that calls for illegal actions. Defkalion cannot enforce 
>> that, or sue for breach of contract. You cannot sue someone in civil 
>> court because they refused to violate a criminal statute.
>> 
>> It may be difficult for Gamberale to get anyone to trust him now, 
>> but if he had continued it would have impossible for him to get the 
>> police to believe him, which is a far worse predicament.
>> 
>> This is real life. You cannot go around trying to sell non-working 
>> machines for millions of dollars. People who have millions of 
>> dollars will definitely go to the authorities when they find out you 
>> have robbed them. This is not like selling fake Rolex watches from a 
>> suitcase on Broadway.
> 

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Alain Sepeda]

Dear Axil,
first what is shown is not benign, but this does not say DGT is criminal
from its inception.
Desperate people do stupid things; Paranoid people do stupid things.

The second is however that if it was a mistake, or even a temporary failure
during a demo, and even if the demo was indeed tweaked as Luca describe,
Defkalion had 9 month, in private or in public, to reassure Luca himself,
and why not us.

In the case, the case I judge as sign of "huge lack of wisdom", that
despite not answering to luca, Defkalion anyway have a working reactor in
it's lab, it should let Luca test it (even if only calorimetry is allowed,
only but all calorimetry method), or if they don't trust him, let a third
party make a boiler test and inform Luca.

I'm conscious that in that affair many millions have been burned, and more
of Xanthoulis money than of Gamberale&al , so I don't estimate that it was
a void scam story...

however something irrational, desperate, paranoid, have happened... whether
it was wishful thinking, self-delusion, conspiracy theories, it is no more
our business.
question is if it works or not.
A boiler test made by a non physicist team (why not electricians and
plumbers, experience in testing), would give a solid answer and no risk of
IP leak.

By the way I feel it is absurd to ask physicist to do calorimetry ... it is
a job of plumbers, electricians, their engineer counter parts,
petrochemist, boiler testers,   or at worst of industry chemist.
Physicist (true for nuclear physicists, less for others), as Beaudette
explained, are incompetent in calorimetry, and are only good to find the
theory, not to challenge the experimental results.





2014-05-21 8:54 GMT+02:00 Axil Axil :

> I have respected Jed to the highest degree in these recent discussions,
> and I have tried to understand how DGT can be a criminal organization as a
> cold fusion developer as Jed is asserting. I can not understand how a cold
> fusion developer can be criminal. I also have assured my opinion that
> Gamberale cannot be trusted. I  understand that Gamberale is more a Judas
> than  a whittle blower.
>
> It is tragic that most people will not give the developers of a prototype
> Cold fusion system the benefit of the doubt when errors occur or lack of
> expertize is shown in demos. Remember, Rossi has been accused of fraud
> often while he was learning the Ni/H ropes and the proper ways of
> demonstrating it.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:31 AM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>
>> I don't have any confidence that you'll listen to me.  So I'm on the
>> record as to where you went off the edge.  Someone else on the list had the
>> responsibility of being your fence, of warning you that you were close to
>> the edge.  I was too busy.  Maybe the next time you play close to the edge
>> you'll be more attentive to your surroundings.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:23 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> To help me in avoiding the edge, please identify the edge and explain
>>> how I am going over it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:08 AM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
>>>
 People like you who go over the edge can't see what they're doing
 wrong.   When you come back from the edge, if you don't apologize to those
 whom you've besmirched, like Jed, then you won't be trusted for anything
 other than taking out the garbage.


 On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Daniel Rocha 
 wrote:

> I don't know about Axil, but I am talking about things I know and try
> to understand. Why should I stop? I am not doing anything wrong.
>
>
> 2014-05-21 2:50 GMT-03:00 Kevin O'Malley :
>
>> Lately, you and Axil have gone off the edge.
>>
>>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>


>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Michel Vandenberghe]

Hi Peter,

Will see :-)
 
Michel VandenbergheLENR-Cities CEO

Mobile +33 689 300 935
http://www.lenr-cities.com

Le Mercredi 21 mai 2014 9h47, Peter Gluck  a écrit :
 


Jed is a respected member of our community, has great merits
in the survival of classic Cold Fusion and has the right to have to
have his opinion about everything, including that DGT has nothing.
In this stage, pre-commercial this is more useful that supporting
DGT/ The company had and has more problems with industrial
espionage, sample theft, wise guys trying to discover basic secrets
 than with accusations of any type- all unfounded as you will see..
As I told, only facts as Hyperions on the market- can change anything
essential- the Armageddon stage nears for what has started as the
Cold Fusion Dream and went on a sooo tortuous, meandering way.
Peter



On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Kevin O'Malley  wrote:


>
>Cold fusion is so speculative 
that it is very much like a religion than a business. We support it in 
the hopes of a better world and understand very well that little or 
nothing will ever be forthcoming from our contributions.
>
>***Yet more evidence that you've gone off the deep end.
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>"This affair is hurting because some people, whatever is the result, have been 
>fooled, or are fooling others, and I know some of them.
>>That is (bad) business risk, and that is why there is justice, laws, and 
>>judges."
>>
>>
>>Cold fusion is so speculative that it is very much like a religion than a 
>>business. We support it in the hopes of a better world and understand very 
>>well that little or nothing will ever be forthcoming from our contributions.
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:27 AM, Alain Sepeda  wrote:
>>
>>If Luca is telling the truth, in breaking the NDA, after a 9month delay 
>>calling for "explanations", and finally whitleblowing, any honest company 
>>would not be afraid to work with him, and would be proud to show his name to 
>>clients :
>>>-> we have an honest whitleblower in out team. this man had bollocks. He 
>>>will protect you from us.
>>>
>>>
>>>If Luca is lying... It is another planet.
>>>
>>>
>>>Lying or fooled, Luca or DGT, ... a good report by a third party, respecting 
>>>basic boiler test method as Jed shows, would do the job and make the final 
>>>judgement...
>>>
>>>
>>>Unlike early Rossi's test, where there was loose job, here there is 
>>>something not so loose.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If DGT is right, it have to make a really 3rd party test, a good one, simple 
>>>and rough, with key details fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>>This affair is hurting because some people, whatever is the result, have 
>>>been fooled, or are fooling others, and I know some of them.
>>>That is (bad) business risk, and that is why there is justice, laws, and 
>>>judges.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I wait for the test result, or the confessions... for now, I will put my 
>>>home in the Swedish E-cat  test result, hoping they respect boiler standard.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>2014-05-21 5:15 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :
>>>
>>>
>>>Blaze Spinnaker  wrote:

 
The problem with busting your NDA so openly is that it's going to be 
impossible to get anyone to trust you again.


As I pointed out elsewhere, if Gamberale had not "busted his NDA openly," 
warned the customers, and closed down the company, he could end up in jail. 
Defkalion cannot enforce an NDA that calls for the person under that NDA to 
commit fraud. You cannot abide by an NDA contract that calls for illegal 
actions. Defkalion cannot enforce that, or sue for breach of contract. You 
cannot sue someone in civil court because they refused to violate a 
criminal statute.


It may be difficult for Gamberale to get anyone to trust him now, but if he 
had continued it would have impossible for him to get the police to believe 
him, which is a far worse predicament.


This is real life. You cannot go around trying to sell non-working machines 
for millions of dollars. People who have millions of dollars will 
definitely go to the authorities when they find out you have robbed them. 
This is not like selling fake Rolex watches from a suitcase on Broadway.
>>>
>>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Peter Gluck]

Jed is a respected member of our community, has great merits
in the survival of classic Cold Fusion and has the right to have to
have his opinion about everything, including that DGT has nothing.
In this stage, pre-commercial this is more useful that supporting
DGT/ The company had and has more problems with industrial
espionage, sample theft, wise guys trying to discover basic secrets
 than with accusations of any type- all unfounded as you will see..
As I told, only facts as Hyperions on the market- can change anything
essential- the Armageddon stage nears for what has started as the
Cold Fusion Dream and went on a sooo tortuous, meandering way.
Peter


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:

>
> Cold fusion is so speculative that it is very much like a religion than a
> business. We support it in the hopes of a better world and understand very
> well that little or nothing will ever be forthcoming from our contributions.
> ***Yet more evidence that you've gone off the deep end.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> "This affair is hurting because some people, whatever is the result, have
>> been fooled, or are fooling others, and I know some of them.
>> That is (bad) business risk, and that is why there is justice, laws, and
>> judges."
>>
>> Cold fusion is so speculative that it is very much like a religion than a
>> business. We support it in the hopes of a better world and understand very
>> well that little or nothing will ever be forthcoming from our contributions.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:27 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote:
>>
>>> If Luca is telling the truth, in breaking the NDA, after a 9month delay
>>> calling for "explanations", and finally whitleblowing, any honest company
>>> would not be afraid to work with him, and would be proud to show his name
>>> to clients :
>>> -> we have an honest whitleblower in out team. this man had bollocks. He
>>> will protect you from us.
>>>
>>> If Luca is lying... It is another planet.
>>>
>>> Lying or fooled, Luca or DGT, ... a good report by a third party,
>>> respecting basic boiler test method as Jed shows, would do the job and make
>>> the final judgement...
>>>
>>> Unlike early Rossi's test, where there was loose job, here there is
>>> something not so loose.
>>>
>>> If DGT is right, it have to make a really 3rd party test, a good one,
>>> simple and rough, with key details fixed.
>>>
>>> This affair is hurting because some people, whatever is the result, have
>>> been fooled, or are fooling others, and I know some of them.
>>> That is (bad) business risk, and that is why there is justice, laws, and
>>> judges.
>>>
>>>
>>> I wait for the test result, or the confessions... for now, I will put my
>>> home in the Swedish E-cat  test result, hoping they respect boiler standard.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-05-21 5:15 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :
>>>
>>> Blaze Spinnaker  wrote:


> The problem with busting your NDA so openly is that it's going to be
> impossible to get anyone to trust you again.
>

 As I pointed out elsewhere, if Gamberale had not "busted his NDA
 openly," warned the customers, and closed down the company, he could end up
 in jail. Defkalion cannot enforce an NDA that calls for the person under
 that NDA to commit fraud. You cannot abide by an NDA contract that calls
 for illegal actions. Defkalion cannot enforce that, or sue for breach of
 contract. You cannot sue someone in civil court because they refused to
 violate a criminal statute.

 It may be difficult for Gamberale to get anyone to trust him now, but
 if he had continued it would have impossible for him to get the police to
 believe him, which is a far worse predicament.

 This is real life. You cannot go around trying to sell non-working
 machines for millions of dollars. People who have millions of dollars will
 definitely go to the authorities when they find out you have robbed them.
 This is not like selling fake Rolex watches from a suitcase on Broadway.

>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Kevin O'Malley]

Cold fusion is so speculative that it is very much like a religion than a
business. We support it in the hopes of a better world and understand very
well that little or nothing will ever be forthcoming from our contributions.
***Yet more evidence that you've gone off the deep end.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> "This affair is hurting because some people, whatever is the result, have
> been fooled, or are fooling others, and I know some of them.
> That is (bad) business risk, and that is why there is justice, laws, and
> judges."
>
> Cold fusion is so speculative that it is very much like a religion than a
> business. We support it in the hopes of a better world and understand very
> well that little or nothing will ever be forthcoming from our contributions.
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:27 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote:
>
>> If Luca is telling the truth, in breaking the NDA, after a 9month delay
>> calling for "explanations", and finally whitleblowing, any honest company
>> would not be afraid to work with him, and would be proud to show his name
>> to clients :
>> -> we have an honest whitleblower in out team. this man had bollocks. He
>> will protect you from us.
>>
>> If Luca is lying... It is another planet.
>>
>> Lying or fooled, Luca or DGT, ... a good report by a third party,
>> respecting basic boiler test method as Jed shows, would do the job and make
>> the final judgement...
>>
>> Unlike early Rossi's test, where there was loose job, here there is
>> something not so loose.
>>
>> If DGT is right, it have to make a really 3rd party test, a good one,
>> simple and rough, with key details fixed.
>>
>> This affair is hurting because some people, whatever is the result, have
>> been fooled, or are fooling others, and I know some of them.
>> That is (bad) business risk, and that is why there is justice, laws, and
>> judges.
>>
>>
>> I wait for the test result, or the confessions... for now, I will put my
>> home in the Swedish E-cat  test result, hoping they respect boiler standard.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-05-21 5:15 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :
>>
>> Blaze Spinnaker  wrote:
>>>
>>>
 The problem with busting your NDA so openly is that it's going to be
 impossible to get anyone to trust you again.

>>>
>>> As I pointed out elsewhere, if Gamberale had not "busted his NDA
>>> openly," warned the customers, and closed down the company, he could end up
>>> in jail. Defkalion cannot enforce an NDA that calls for the person under
>>> that NDA to commit fraud. You cannot abide by an NDA contract that calls
>>> for illegal actions. Defkalion cannot enforce that, or sue for breach of
>>> contract. You cannot sue someone in civil court because they refused to
>>> violate a criminal statute.
>>>
>>> It may be difficult for Gamberale to get anyone to trust him now, but if
>>> he had continued it would have impossible for him to get the police to
>>> believe him, which is a far worse predicament.
>>>
>>> This is real life. You cannot go around trying to sell non-working
>>> machines for millions of dollars. People who have millions of dollars will
>>> definitely go to the authorities when they find out you have robbed them.
>>> This is not like selling fake Rolex watches from a suitcase on Broadway.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Interview with the CEO of Defkalion

[Axil Axil]

"This affair is hurting because some people, whatever is the result, have
been fooled, or are fooling others, and I know some of them.
That is (bad) business risk, and that is why there is justice, laws, and
judges."

Cold fusion is so speculative that it is very much like a religion than a
business. We support it in the hopes of a better world and understand very
well that little or nothing will ever be forthcoming from our contributions.


On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:27 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote:

> If Luca is telling the truth, in breaking the NDA, after a 9month delay
> calling for "explanations", and finally whitleblowing, any honest company
> would not be afraid to work with him, and would be proud to show his name
> to clients :
> -> we have an honest whitleblower in out team. this man had bollocks. He
> will protect you from us.
>
> If Luca is lying... It is another planet.
>
> Lying or fooled, Luca or DGT, ... a good report by a third party,
> respecting basic boiler test method as Jed shows, would do the job and make
> the final judgement...
>
> Unlike early Rossi's test, where there was loose job, here there is
> something not so loose.
>
> If DGT is right, it have to make a really 3rd party test, a good one,
> simple and rough, with key details fixed.
>
> This affair is hurting because some people, whatever is the result, have
> been fooled, or are fooling others, and I know some of them.
> That is (bad) business risk, and that is why there is justice, laws, and
> judges.
>
>
> I wait for the test result, or the confessions... for now, I will put my
> home in the Swedish E-cat  test result, hoping they respect boiler standard.
>
>
>
> 2014-05-21 5:15 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell :
>
> Blaze Spinnaker  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The problem with busting your NDA so openly is that it's going to be
>>> impossible to get anyone to trust you again.
>>>
>>
>> As I pointed out elsewhere, if Gamberale had not "busted his NDA openly,"
>> warned the customers, and closed down the company, he could end up in jail.
>> Defkalion cannot enforce an NDA that calls for the person under that NDA to
>> commit fraud. You cannot abide by an NDA contract that calls for illegal
>> actions. Defkalion cannot enforce that, or sue for breach of contract. You
>> cannot sue someone in civil court because they refused to violate a
>> criminal statute.
>>
>> It may be difficult for Gamberale to get anyone to trust him now, but if
>> he had continued it would have impossible for him to get the police to
>> believe him, which is a far worse predicament.
>>
>> This is real life. You cannot go around trying to sell non-working
>> machines for millions of dollars. People who have millions of dollars will
>> definitely go to the authorities when they find out you have robbed them.
>> This is not like selling fake Rolex watches from a suitcase on Broadway.
>>
>
>