RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
WELL SAID!! From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 12:28 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) One more post on this intriguing subject of “disappearing hydrinos” leading to anomalous cooling, before passing the pliers to Terry. We have already mentioned that Dirac’s “reciprocal space” provides an alternative venue for this modality, if it really exists – with a lot more credibility and less baggage that “parallel universes” … but that also brings up other fractal spatial possibilities. There is a paper on ArXiv – “Huge Casimir effect at finite temperature in electromagnetic Rindler space”. Here is the story on a blog: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/10/proposed-metamaterial-structure-to-test.html http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1110/1110.1919v1.pdf Anyway – there are several novel connection between fractals, anomalous energy gain or loss - and active geometry which is not exactly 3-space, all of which keep popping up in the literature from time to time (not unlike quantum foam). The message is that particular geometry can somehow alter spacetime - and it is more than the actual spatial dimensions in nm, but also the layout and the (magnetic) field. These have a common thread in that there is a known dynamic Casimir effect (DCE) which can supply excess energy, due to spatial constraints and relativity (i.e. altered spacetime). Consider also: ‘Minkowski Space’ is related to ‘Rindler Space’ and also to ‘De Sitter Space.’ It is possible that all three of these terms relate to a unique fractal of space-time (using ‘fractal’ in the original sense of a fractional dimension) which becomes accessible at the Forster radius of 2-12 nm. This is NOT normal 3-space, nor is it 2-space but somewhere in between. Almost a wormhole, so to speak. Look at the image here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_spacetime in the context of this article http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1110/1110.1919v1.pdf This all fits together in a way that is not easy to verbalize, but seems to involve 1)Double vortex in spacetime 2)Vortex flipping and self-oscillation 3)Spatial geometry that relates to the Forster radius (FRET) 2-12 nm 4)Exaggerated vibrational modes 5)Anomaly is not always a gain in temperature – sometimes a loss. The problem is that this analysis is an early attempt to merge mathematical-space with real space. But what is “real space”, anyway? Jones - http://www.springerlink.com/content/h68g501352t57011/fulltext.pdf Same story on missing neutrons with graph and the full text site - showing the apparent region of interest with a cluster at about .1 Gauss. Of course, extending this finding (which could be wrong to begin with) to virtual neutrons is a leap. Yet that is what we do here- try to extend the ‘cutting edge’ … while avoiding the ‘bleeding edge’… This time there the reference paper is extremely suspect, in itself. Anyway, that small triangle in the graph could be important in the context of “nano-magnetism” and the fact that the trigger temperature for Ni-H seems to relate to the Curie temperature of nickel. It also tends to show visually how difficult hitting the parameter for disappearance would be. The magnetic field in question is actually LESS than the Earth's magnetic field at its surface which is about .4 Gauss in most places. A typical refrigerator magnet is 50 Gauss so we have to ask – are they really that accurate with this? We can imagine that the ‘sweet spot’ – which relates to cryogenic neutrons would be much harder to duplicate at 350C. Anyway, on the plus side - I could download the paper today from Springer for free, which is unusual since they (especially) usually charge a significant fee for carrying out the garbage. Jones … perhaps ALL reactions with hydrogen loaded metal result in a mix of the two temperature anomalies, hot and cold - even the ones that are massively gainful in heat… Those with heat, such as Rossi claims, could be at a ratio of 90/10 (hot/cold). Perhaps Ahern titanium samples gave 47/53 and it appeared to be cooling, but it was only net cooling with significant heat also….If the “missing neutron” or “missing hydrino” ends up providing a huge loss of mass-energy to the reaction, then that loss covers up a lot of excess heat prior to the disappearance. This can possibly explain why LERN is generally unreliable – a natural tendency to produce a balance of excess heat and excess cooling - and it requires some unknown intervention to shift the balance. The intervention appears to be a magnetic field at only about a tenth of a gauss.
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:39 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: > To Terry (master of the one-liner) Blanton, > R U feeling ill, or just totally bored? Both, actually, mentally. The quote is from Douglas Adams. Rodin invented the Rodin coil. And I didn't even mention Walter Russell and his vortex theories. So, I will now: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Walter_Russell T
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
To Terry (master of the one-liner) Blanton, R U feeling ill, or just totally bored? :-) -mark -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] TRATEOTU: The Total Perspective Vortex derives its picture of the whole Universe on the principle of extrapolated matter analyses. To explain since every piece of matter in the Universe is in some way affected by every other piece of matter in the Universe, it is in theory possible to extrapolate the whole of creation every sun, every planet, their orbits, their composition and their economic and social history from, say, one small piece of fairy cake. The man who invented the Total Perspective Vortex did so basically in order to annoy his wife. Trin Tragula for that was his name was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher or, as his wife would have it, an idiot. And she would nag him incessantly about the utterly inordinate amount of time he spent staring out into space, or mulling over the mechanics of safety pins, or doing spectrographic analyses of pieces of fairy cake. "Have some sense of proportion!" she would say, sometimes as often as thirty-eight times in a single day. And so he built the Total Perspective Vortex just to show her. And into one end he plugged the whole of reality as extrapolated from a piece of fairy cake, and into the other end he plugged his wife: so that when he turned it on she saw in one instant the whole infinity of creation and herself in relation to it. To Trin Tragula's horror, the shock completely annihilated her brain; but to his satisfaction he realized that he had proved conclusively that if life is going to exist in a Universe of this size, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion. Maybe Marko Rodin has it right: http://lifeforcegenie.com/unified-science-of-everything/vortex-based-mathema tics.html T
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
TRATEOTU: The Total Perspective Vortex derives its picture of the whole Universe on the principle of extrapolated matter analyses. To explain — since every piece of matter in the Universe is in some way affected by every other piece of matter in the Universe, it is in theory possible to extrapolate the whole of creation — every sun, every planet, their orbits, their composition and their economic and social history from, say, one small piece of fairy cake. The man who invented the Total Perspective Vortex did so basically in order to annoy his wife. Trin Tragula — for that was his name — was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher or, as his wife would have it, an idiot. And she would nag him incessantly about the utterly inordinate amount of time he spent staring out into space, or mulling over the mechanics of safety pins, or doing spectrographic analyses of pieces of fairy cake. "Have some sense of proportion!" she would say, sometimes as often as thirty-eight times in a single day. And so he built the Total Perspective Vortex — just to show her. And into one end he plugged the whole of reality as extrapolated from a piece of fairy cake, and into the other end he plugged his wife: so that when he turned it on she saw in one instant the whole infinity of creation and herself in relation to it. To Trin Tragula's horror, the shock completely annihilated her brain; but to his satisfaction he realized that he had proved conclusively that if life is going to exist in a Universe of this size, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion. Maybe Marko Rodin has it right: http://lifeforcegenie.com/unified-science-of-everything/vortex-based-mathematics.html T
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
One more post on this intriguing subject of “disappearing hydrinos” leading to anomalous cooling, before passing the pliers to Terry. We have already mentioned that Dirac’s “reciprocal space” provides an alternative venue for this modality, if it really exists – with a lot more credibility and less baggage that “parallel universes” … but that also brings up other fractal spatial possibilities. There is a paper on ArXiv – “Huge Casimir effect at finite temperature in electromagnetic Rindler space”. Here is the story on a blog: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/10/proposed-metamaterial-structure-to-test.html http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1110/1110.1919v1.pdf Anyway – there are several novel connection between fractals, anomalous energy gain or loss - and active geometry which is not exactly 3-space, all of which keep popping up in the literature from time to time (not unlike quantum foam). The message is that particular geometry can somehow alter spacetime - and it is more than the actual spatial dimensions in nm, but also the layout and the (magnetic) field. These have a common thread in that there is a known dynamic Casimir effect (DCE) which can supply excess energy, due to spatial constraints and relativity (i.e. altered spacetime). Consider also: ‘Minkowski Space’ is related to ‘Rindler Space’ and also to ‘De Sitter Space.’ It is possible that all three of these terms relate to a unique fractal of space-time (using ‘fractal’ in the original sense of a fractional dimension) which becomes accessible at the Forster radius of 2-12 nm. This is NOT normal 3-space, nor is it 2-space but somewhere in between. Almost a wormhole, so to speak. Look at the image here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_spacetime in the context of this article http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1110/1110.1919v1.pdf This all fits together in a way that is not easy to verbalize, but seems to involve 1)Double vortex in spacetime 2)Vortex flipping and self-oscillation 3)Spatial geometry that relates to the Forster radius (FRET) 2-12 nm 4)Exaggerated vibrational modes 5)Anomaly is not always a gain in temperature – sometimes a loss. The problem is that this analysis is an early attempt to merge mathematical-space with real space. But what is “real space”, anyway? Jones - http://www.springerlink.com/content/h68g501352t57011/fulltext.pdf Same story on missing neutrons with graph and the full text site - showing the apparent region of interest with a cluster at about .1 Gauss. Of course, extending this finding (which could be wrong to begin with) to virtual neutrons is a leap. Yet that is what we do here- try to extend the ‘cutting edge’ … while avoiding the ‘bleeding edge’… This time there the reference paper is extremely suspect, in itself. Anyway, that small triangle in the graph could be important in the context of “nano-magnetism” and the fact that the trigger temperature for Ni-H seems to relate to the Curie temperature of nickel. It also tends to show visually how difficult hitting the parameter for disappearance would be. The magnetic field in question is actually LESS than the Earth's magnetic field at its surface which is about .4 Gauss in most places. A typical refrigerator magnet is 50 Gauss so we have to ask – are they really that accurate with this? We can imagine that the ‘sweet spot’ – which relates to cryogenic neutrons would be much harder to duplicate at 350C. Anyway, on the plus side - I could download the paper today from Springer for free, which is unusual since they (especially) usually charge a significant fee for carrying out the garbage. Jones … perhaps ALL reactions with hydrogen loaded metal result in a mix of the two temperature anomalies, hot and cold - even the ones that are massively gainful in heat… Those with heat, such as Rossi claims, could be at a ratio of 90/10 (hot/cold). Perhaps Ahern titanium samples gave 47/53 and it appeared to be cooling, but it was only net cooling with significant heat also….If the “missing neutron” or “missing hydrino” ends up providing a huge loss of mass-energy to the reaction, then that loss covers up a lot of excess heat prior to the disappearance. This can possibly explain why LERN is generally unreliable – a natural tendency to produce a balance of excess heat and excess cooling - and it requires some unknown intervention to shift the balance. The intervention appears to be a magnetic field at only about a tenth of a gauss.
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > It is easy to go over the top with dramatization on this one. > > This scenario does not need to involve parallel universes (in the SciFi > sense) nor anything theological. In fact, Dirac's "reciprocal space" works > fine - as the "repository" for deep hydrinos, and with no other fictional > "baggage" so to speak. It is related to theology (or at least quasi-theology) since most physicists have faith in CoE. If they didn't they wouldn't bother to imagine neutrinos and parrallel universes. Harry > BTW - for those who do not grasp what actually happened in the EPRI reports, > here is a short synopsis of Ahern's experiments. First, there is a well > insulated reactor with numerous RTDs for accurate temperature measurement. > The reactor is filled with pressurized hydrogen and various sample > nanopowders - including an inert control powder. There is a resistance > heater, drawing in the tens of watts. The current is kept absolutely > constant to the heater, so that there is no variation on P-in during the > run. > > With the 'control', you will find from datalogging that a specific rate of > thermal transfer occurs between the outer RTD, where the heater is located > and the inner. Hydrogen under pressure is a good conductor of heat so this > is normally only a few degrees. For example, in the control setup (no active > powder) one might see 350C on the outside and 340C on the inside. The > difference is minimal and never varies. > > OK - when one switches from the control to active nanopowder, things get > interesting and if there is excess energy from the interaction of hydrogen > with the powder, there will be an "inversion", so that the inner RTD becomes > hotter - often much hotter than the outer. That happens with nano-nickel, > and the resulting temperature can be close to 100 degrees inverted. This is > NOT calorimetry, but there are implications to be firmed up on further > experimentation. > > The interesting part (for this thread) is that with Titanium nanopowder, > instead of a temperature inversion indicating gain, you get an anomalous > "sink." For instance, instead of an expected 10 degree drop (out-to-in) the > spread can be much higher, an order of magnitude perhaps, indicating "active > cooling". > > Any round numbers above are for illustration purposes only; but the results > are shocking and significant in both anomalies - heat and cooling. And guess > what, the cooling anomaly could be almost as important as the heating, in > terms of new physics. > > EVEN IF THERE IS NO PATH TO COMERCIALIZATION - for an active cooling > anomaly, it could be important if it points the way to an accurate > understanding of the heat. That is where this is going. > > I haven’t heard a better explanation for active nano-cooling than the > disappearance of matter from one spatial dimension into "reciprocal space." > This space may not be a true dimension, but a fractal instead. "Fractal" is > being used in the original way to mean a fractional dimension. Plus, the > matter which is lost may not be a neutron, per se, but instead a > maximum-redundant hydrino. > > Essentially, what I think happens with nano-titanium cooling is that the > nanoparticles - which are a strong Mills' catalyst - collapse to the full > redundancy in one continuous step - where there is both heat release on > shrinkage, followed immediately by massive heat loss. on the atomic level, > when the hydrino essentially disappears into reciprocal space. The net > result is active cooling. Why it only happens with titanium needs to be > answered. Perhaps it is a momentum effect of some kind. > > E=mc^2 works both ways, apparently - and when mass "disappears" - in a > dimensional sense, so does the corresponding energy it contained. This is > seen as heat removal from a hot reactor. The active species does not have to > be 'mirror matter' as in the original article - but if that helps in > appreciating the view through Alice's 'looking glass' - good! ... it is kind > of catchy, so let's keep it. > > Jones > > > -Original Message- > From: Harry Veeder > > The mystery of the eternal is now nothing more than CoE. > >> Good find - and the implications are a bit convoluted. The curious thing > is >> that mirror matter neutrons (or deep hydrinos) will explain anomalous heat >> loss quite nicely. >> >> As you may remember, Ahern reported that some of his Arata-style samples >> demonstrated anomalous heat LOSS (more of the samples show gain than loss, >> and only a few showed nothing). >> >> This paper, in fact - could explain anomalous heat loss better than > anything >> I have seen thus far. >> >> BTW the all of the nanopowder samples which showed thermal loss were made > of >> nano-titanium embedded in zirconia. All of the nickel and palladium > samples >> showed gain. >> >> Jones > > >>> Neutrons escaping to a parallel world? > > >>> In a paper recently published in EPJ C¹, researcher
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/64106-missing-neutrons-may-be-visiting-parallel-universe http://www.springerlink.com/content/h68g501352t57011/fulltext.pdf Same story on missing neutrons with graph and the full text site - showing the apparent region of interest with a cluster at about .1 Gauss. Of course, extending this finding (which could be wrong to begin with) to virtual neutrons is a leap. Yet that is what we do here- try to extend the ‘cutting edge’ … while avoiding the ‘bleeding edge’… This time there the reference paper is extremely suspect, in itself. Anyway, that small triangle in the graph could be important in the context of “nano-magnetism” and the fact that the trigger temperature for Ni-H seems to relate to the Curie temperature of nickel. It also tends to show visually how difficult hitting the parameter for disappearance would be. The magnetic field in question is actually LESS than the Earth's magnetic field at its surface which is about .4 Gauss in most places. A typical refrigerator magnet is 50 Gauss so we have to ask – are they really that accurate with this? We can imagine that the ‘sweet spot’ – which relates to cryogenic neutrons would be much harder to duplicate at 350C. Anyway, on the plus side - I could download the paper today from Springer for free, which is unusual since they (especially) usually charge a significant fee for carrying out the garbage. Jones … perhaps ALL reactions with hydrogen loaded metal result in a mix of the two temperature anomalies, hot and cold - even the ones that are massively gainful in heat… Those with heat, such as Rossi claims, could be at a ratio of 90/10 (hot/cold). Perhaps Ahern titanium samples gave 47/53 and it appeared to be cooling, but it was only net cooling with significant heat also….If the “missing neutron” or “missing hydrino” ends up providing a huge loss of mass-energy to the reaction, then that loss covers up a lot of excess heat prior to the disappearance. This can possibly explain why LERN is generally unreliable – a natural tendency to produce a balance of excess heat and excess cooling - and it requires some unknown intervention to shift the balance. The intervention appears to be a magnetic field at only about a tenth of a gauss.
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:27:19 -0400 (EDT): Hi, [snip] > >Perhaps the neutrons are captured in some manner and allowed to decay into >proton, electron, and an electron antineutrino. The antineutrino would easily >escape the system carrying away mass and energy. > >The total kinetic energy associated with the neutron in the test system would >be reduced by that carried away. Temperature is a measure of kinetic energy. > >A lot depends upon the magnitude of energy that is carried away by the >antineutrino. If it carries away all of the energy required to make a neutron >from the parts, then this process might explain the loss of heat. > >Dave In the context of WL this might actually make sense. If the additional electron mass required to create the neutron in the first place came at the expense of thermal energy of the lattice, then the lattice would cool when the neutrons were created. If they decay without fusing, then on average about 580 keV is lost with the antineutrino. (Some may also be lost with the neutrino when the neutron is formed?) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
-Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 10:38 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) >It is easy to go over the top with dramatization on this one. ... >...The interesting part (for this thread) is that with Titanium nanopowder, >instead of a temperature inversion indicating gain, you get an anomalous >"sink." For instance, instead of an expected 10 degree drop (out-to-in) the >spread can be much higher, an order of magnitude perhaps, indicating "active >cooling". I can think of many practical uses for an "energy sink" -- From car brakes that don't get hot to laptop coolers, and perhaps more importantly, the efficiency of a heat engine goes up quite fast the cooler the cold sink is, reaching 100% at absolute zero --> free energy from ambient temperature. There is also some anecdotal evidence that when a "Steorn effect" free energy motor is run backwards, it absorbs kinetic energy without getting hot. There really does seem to be something to this magnetic interaction effect. Several engineers including a professional engineer hired to independently verify it did verify it in a formal report. Also see: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cRQu7M192g Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona US
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
Reference: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MileyGHnucleartra.pdf NUCLEAR TRANSMUTATIONS IN THIN-FILM NICKEL COATINGS UNDERGOING ELECTROLYSIS George H. Miley and James A. Patterson Other key features observed in Fig. 8 and Fig. 9 that must be accounted for by any theory include the “gaps” between high yield products and the high Ag and Cd yields. Ag (and Cd) production is particularly challenging, since *Ag occurs in large quantities but is not favored energetically. Ag’s position, well to the lower binding energy side of Ni, infers an endothermic reaction (negative Q-value), which in turn suggests energy transfer to the reactants must occur to drive the reaction. *(This is analogous to driving negative Q-value reactions by colliding high-energy reactants using accelerated beams. As defined here, Q values are the energy released due to the mass difference between reactants and products, assuming that the reactants enter with zero kinetic or excitation energy.) Consequently, the model must contain a mechanism for energy storage/transfer to reactions involved in high Z element production. A postulated reaction model, RIFEX (Reaction in a Film-Excited CompleX), is under development to satisfy these key characteristics. A major feature of RIFEX is that protons (p) interacting with the host Ni and neighboring isotopes produces a relatively long lived atom-p complex with excitation energies of orders of several MeV. *This allows production of elements such as Ag with Q-value reactions. Seemingly, other products with a negative Q value are produced via fission of compound nuclei. *This model will be presented in detail in a future publication. What kind of transmutation is going on. Heavy elements like Ag On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > I wrote: > >> >> So if Brian Ahern's anecdotal data are allowed, titanium can yield both >> power and localized cooling (perhaps energy is being fed into the system >> from the power outlet to accomplish this). >> > > I'm all mixed up. There are the ice packs, which absorb heat during a > phase transition from solid to liquid. So (thinking out loud) there need > not be a violation of CoE or the second law of thermodynamics for the > titanium system to cool down, and there is more than one pathway that could > account for this phenomenon. Importantly, there are temperature and heat, > and in the case of ice packs, latent heat, and they need to be > distinguished. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_pack > > The temperature of ice packs decreases because they have a high "enthalpy > of fusion" (not to be confused with nuclear fusion). But there is still > energy (heat) going into the system, causing the overall energy to increase. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_fusion > > According to the second article, most substances have a positive enthalpy > of fusion, while 3He and 4He have negative enthalpies of fusion at low > temperatures. This means they freeze rather than melt with the addition of > heat. > > Eric > >
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
As I recall, the titanium experiments with thermal gain have been with deuterium. Do you have reference to gain with Ti-H instead of Ti-D? But even if titanium can go either way, and it can be determined that some experiments with hydrogen and other “nano-metric” metals result in excess heat, and some with cooling, then it will possible to look closely to find what third factors are contributory (to whether the reaction goes to net-cooling or net-cooling). IOW – what I am saying is that perhaps ALL reactions with hydrogen loaded metal result in a mix of the two, even the ones that are massively gainful in heat. Perhaps those, such as in Rossi claims, are 90/10 (hot/cold). Perhaps Ahern titanium samples gave 47/53 and it appeared to be cooling but it was only net cooling with significant heat also. If the “missing neutron” or “missing hydrino” ends up with a huge loss of mass-energy, then that covers up a lot of excess heat prior to the loss. This can explain why LERN is generally unreliable – a natural tendency to produce a balance of excess heat and excess cooling - and it requires some unknown intervention to shift the balance. From: Eric Walker * * there have been experiments using titanium in which power was produced; in several, around a single watt, and in one, 76 watts. So if Brian Ahern's anecdotal data are allowed, titanium can yield both power and localized cooling (perhaps energy is being fed into the system from the power outlet to accomplish this). Eric
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
I wrote: > > So if Brian Ahern's anecdotal data are allowed, titanium can yield both > power and localized cooling (perhaps energy is being fed into the system > from the power outlet to accomplish this). > I'm all mixed up. There are the ice packs, which absorb heat during a phase transition from solid to liquid. So (thinking out loud) there need not be a violation of CoE or the second law of thermodynamics for the titanium system to cool down, and there is more than one pathway that could account for this phenomenon. Importantly, there are temperature and heat, and in the case of ice packs, latent heat, and they need to be distinguished. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_pack The temperature of ice packs decreases because they have a high "enthalpy of fusion" (not to be confused with nuclear fusion). But there is still energy (heat) going into the system, causing the overall energy to increase. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_of_fusion According to the second article, most substances have a positive enthalpy of fusion, while 3He and 4He have negative enthalpies of fusion at low temperatures. This means they freeze rather than melt with the addition of heat. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > … don’t crush that dwarf :-) Hand me the pliers. (Without knowing the reference, this sounds crazy.) T
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
I wrote: > > The question of nickel v. tungsten is more complex than I implied. If I > remember correctly, there are experiments with tungsten in which heat was > produced. > The experiment involved titanium nanopowder, not tungsten. But I see now that there have been experiments using titanium in which power was produced; in several, around a single watt, and in one, 76 watts. So if Brian Ahern's anecdotal data are allowed, titanium can yield both power and localized cooling (perhaps energy is being fed into the system from the power outlet to accomplish this). Eric
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
I wrote: > It brings the question of conservation of energy to the fore. If normal > LENR is like a box with a button on it, which once pressed causes heat to > spill out, can you have another box with a button that, when pressed, > causes cooling to occur? At face value, it sounds like some basic > principle is being violated. > I don't think it's CoE that is the problem in this case, it's the second law of thermodynamics -- entropy can only increase. If you took the LENR experiment with the tungsten in which cooling is being observed and placed the entire apparatus in a calorimeter, wouldn't you expect (require?) the balance of heat given off by the system to be positive? The question of nickel v. tungsten is more complex than I implied. If I remember correctly, there are experiments with tungsten in which heat was produced. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
Yesterday, Robin mentioned that under the theory of Mills, the hydrino cannot be easily contained after it gives up significant energy - and would eventually migrate out of the structure like a neutron (being subject to gravity) and eventually “disappear” anyway – so there is no need for another sudden kind of “disappearance” where mass/energy is completely removed from the observer’s reality, resulting in cooling. Presumably the spent hydrino (from heating) would migrate to the center of earth, due to its effective density and neutrality, and thus it is almost completely removed from the observer’s reality as well. The point of difference being the net loss (or gain) which was seen at the original source of the reaction. I had the thought that the two routes to hydrogen disappearance, if they are ever proved - could be connected via some kind of CoE linkage. A ‘cosmic balance sheet’ of sorts. That would involve “reciprocal space” having its own gravity link. Maybe the hot and cold particles, both formerly hydrogen atoms, complete the cycle in the earth’s gravity well. There has always been talk of a very dense core for earth, denser than any element – in fact similar to the so-called neutron star. Neutron stars contain the densest matter that is directly observable, but it is probably not neutrons per se – more like “quark soup”. Earth may have a few teaspoons of quark soup material at the very center, a few gigatons where everything dense goes to get “regauged” according to Bearden, or “regrooved” according to Firesign. … don’t crush that dwarf :-) From: Eric Walker David Roberson wrote: Thanks for the update Jones. If the cooling effect is valid then it should be pursued. Any time an anomalous occurrence is registered an opportunity to discover a new relationship exists which may allow us to fit additional parts of the puzzle into place. Agreed. The cooling effect is very interesting. It brings the question of conservation of energy to the fore. If normal LENR is like a box with a button on it, which once pressed causes heat to spill out, can you have another box with a button that, when pressed, causes cooling to occur? At face value, it sounds like some basic principle is being violated. The secret here might be in the materials, where nickel is used for heating and titanium is used for cooling. In the process peaks in the energy potential of the environment are gradually smoothed out and move towards some kind of baseline. If you had large LENR power stations operating over decades and centuries, pumping heat into the environment, would this just result in a change in the equilibrium of the environment such that more incoming solar energy would then be reflected into space, or would there be a need for active cooling of some kind? Eric <>
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
An LENR like technique that achieves active cooling would be an interesting discovery. It is normal for a black body radiator to loose energy and cool down by radiation and maybe a method exists to convert some of the thermal energy into another form such as neutrinos that can escape any system effortlessly. The natural world may have a lot of fancy 'tricks' that we have not yet uncovered. In normal stellar evolution I understand that iron is the last element synthesized within the core. Additional fusion is actually endothermic and would effectively be similar to what is suggested as a sink of energy that allows cooling. Perhaps this discovery is a low temperature variation of this effect. Dave -Original Message- From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l Sent: Sun, Jun 17, 2012 2:51 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 8:59 AM, David Roberson wrote: Thanks for the update Jones. If the cooling effect is valid then it should be pursued. Any time an anomalous occurrence is registered an opportunity to discover a new relationship exists which may allow us to fit additional parts of the puzzle into place. Agreed. The cooling effect is very interesting. It brings the question of conservation of energy to the fore. If normal LENR is like a box with a button on it, which once pressed causes heat to spill out, can you have another box with a button that, when pressed, causes cooling to occur? At face value, it sounds like some basic principle is being violated. The secret here might be in the materials, where nickel is used for heating and titanium is used for cooling. In the process peaks in the energy potential of the environment are gradually smoothed out and move towards some kind of baseline. If you had large LENR power stations operating over decades and centuries, pumping heat into the environment, would this just result in a change in the equilibrium of the environment such that more incoming solar energy would then be reflected into space, or would there be a need for active cooling of some kind? Eric
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 8:59 AM, David Roberson wrote: Thanks for the update Jones. If the cooling effect is valid then it > should be pursued. Any time an anomalous occurrence is registered an > opportunity to discover a new relationship exists which may allow us to fit > additional parts of the puzzle into place. > Agreed. The cooling effect is very interesting. It brings the question of conservation of energy to the fore. If normal LENR is like a box with a button on it, which once pressed causes heat to spill out, can you have another box with a button that, when pressed, causes cooling to occur? At face value, it sounds like some basic principle is being violated. The secret here might be in the materials, where nickel is used for heating and titanium is used for cooling. In the process peaks in the energy potential of the environment are gradually smoothed out and move towards some kind of baseline. If you had large LENR power stations operating over decades and centuries, pumping heat into the environment, would this just result in a change in the equilibrium of the environment such that more incoming solar energy would then be reflected into space, or would there be a need for active cooling of some kind? Eric
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
Thanks for the update Jones. If the cooling effect is valid then it should be pursued. Any time an anomalous occurrence is registered an opportunity to discover a new relationship exists which may allow us to fit additional parts of the puzzle into place. I would assume that the cooling process is about as evasive as the heating effect. Please keep us informed about this issue as new data is revealed. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l Sent: Sun, Jun 17, 2012 11:40 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) UPDATE: I was asked about the EPRI data in the Ahern report - showing cooling with itanium nanopowder, and finally got in touch with Brian. He did not include the data in the final report, merely a summation. He stands by the cooling effect as valid and repeatable; but the effect was not s strong as I previously suggested (not an order of magnitude effect). In conclusion, "nano-cooling" is a niche which is begging for replication but it s not as significant an anomaly as is the heating effect with nickel anopowder. -Original Message- rom: MarkI-ZeroPoint 1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then: 1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)? Let me just say this. There have been for a long time - reports of spontaneous anomalous) hydrogen showing up in extreme vacuum conditions. Hydrogen from owhere, essentially. But that phenomenon, if true, has morphed into fringe eligious bogosity so one hesitates to even mention it. There was an article in E and it has been picked up here, for what it is worth: http://blog.hasslberger.com/2006/06/hydrogen_from_space_the_aether.html This is not the same as neutrons from nowhere, except that the neutron has only short half-life, and you expect to see hydrogen in the end. Does that account or the hydrogen phenomenon, and if so, where is the decay energy? Does rans-dimensional transfer happen isothermally, regardless? (at least from the erspective of the host) That would be the only way it could happen. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
UPDATE: I was asked about the EPRI data in the Ahern report - showing cooling with titanium nanopowder, and finally got in touch with Brian. He did not include the data in the final report, merely a summation. He stands by the cooling effect as valid and repeatable; but the effect was not as strong as I previously suggested (not an order of magnitude effect). In conclusion, "nano-cooling" is a niche which is begging for replication but it is not as significant an anomaly as is the heating effect with nickel nanopowder. -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint 1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then: 1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)? Let me just say this. There have been for a long time - reports of spontaneous (anomalous) hydrogen showing up in extreme vacuum conditions. Hydrogen from nowhere, essentially. But that phenomenon, if true, has morphed into fringe religious bogosity so one hesitates to even mention it. There was an article in IE and it has been picked up here, for what it is worth: http://blog.hasslberger.com/2006/06/hydrogen_from_space_the_aether.html This is not the same as neutrons from nowhere, except that the neutron has only a short half-life, and you expect to see hydrogen in the end. Does that account for the hydrogen phenomenon, and if so, where is the decay energy? Does trans-dimensional transfer happen isothermally, regardless? (at least from the perspective of the host) That would be the only way it could happen. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
I think physical principles should be treated like fine clothes. Keep them but don't wear them all the time. Harry On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 9:39 PM, David Roberson wrote: > Let us not throw away the CoE too fast. I suggest that an solution will one > day appear that does not do this. > > Dave > > > -Original Message- > From: MarkI-ZeroPoint > To: vortex-l > Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 9:15 pm > Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) > > 1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then: > 1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)? > 2. For every neutron that exits, does another enter this space (to balance > things, remember CoE!)? > 3. If either #1 or #1a are possible, and not #2, then CoE gets tossed out > the > window! > > Altho, for all practical purposes, CoE would still appear to be intact, BUT, > if > we can optimize the popping out of existence within some object, and it > happens > often enough, then it would be possible to violate CoE within that object. > > Jones just opened a can of worms... and the feast begins! > :-) > -Mark > _ > From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:29 PM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) > > > -Original Message- > From: mix...@bigpond.com > >> They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space. > > This isn't about "need" Robin - it is about explaining results. Most of the > time, of course, this kind of cooling reaction simply does not happen. Do > you > know of any other reports of anomalous cooling? > >> Hydrino molecules can quite easily disappear into ordinary space. They can > simply migrate through the atomic interstices of the container wall into the > atmosphere. > > Yes, of course ... at least if they are real - then that is probably true. > But > in that case there is only excess heat - not anomalous cooling. > > IOW, that will not explain a cooling effect, as you acknowledge, so why > mention > it? The Ahern results are beyond any possible chemical effect. The purpose > of > the posting was to present a possible rationale involving a new kind of > fractional hydrogen reaction, where the assumptions are very different. Net > cooling instead of heating. > > The common denominator seems to be simple - if neutrons can do this > disappearing > act, then virtual neutrons (maximum redundancy hydrogen) can possibly do the > same. In neither case am I claiming it is anything more than a remote > possibility. > > When I opined that there could be some kind of "momentum effect" what I > meant > was that in certain circumstances the entire sequence from atomic hydrogen > to > virtual neutron happens as one unstoppable progression, unlike the Mills' > hydrino - which is a sequential chain of reactions which occurs in up to 137 > steps. > > After all, this thread is merely the start of a new hypothesis, at this time > - > with which to explain new phenomena which previously was beyond explanation. > Maybe it will not survive more accurate objections, but one cannot > disqualify it > easily by suggesting that another unproved presumption (Mills hydrinos > operating > in only one way) makes it not possible ☺ simply because Mills himself may > have > overlooked another feature of a broader phenomena. > > Jones >
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
Since the subject has arisen, it is worth mentioning that the spontaneous generation of matter happens in "steady-state" cosmological theories propounded by Fred Hoyle and others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_State_theory Harry On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 9:56 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > -Original Message- > From: MarkI-ZeroPoint > > 1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then: > 1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)? > > Let me just say this. There have been for a long time - reports of > spontaneous (anomalous) hydrogen showing up in extreme vacuum conditions. > Hydrogen from nowhere, essentially. But that phenomenon, if true, has morphed > into fringe religious bogosity so one hesitates to even mention it. There was > an article in IE and it has been picked up here, for what it is worth: > > http://blog.hasslberger.com/2006/06/hydrogen_from_space_the_aether.html > > This is not the same as neutrons from nowhere, except that the neutron has > only a short half-life, and you expect to see hydrogen in the end. Does that > account for the hydrogen phenomenon, and if so, where is the decay energy? > Does trans-dimensional transfer happen isothermally, regardless? (at least > from the perspective of the host) > > That would be the only way it could happen. > > Jones
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
-Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint 1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then: 1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)? Let me just say this. There have been for a long time - reports of spontaneous (anomalous) hydrogen showing up in extreme vacuum conditions. Hydrogen from nowhere, essentially. But that phenomenon, if true, has morphed into fringe religious bogosity so one hesitates to even mention it. There was an article in IE and it has been picked up here, for what it is worth: http://blog.hasslberger.com/2006/06/hydrogen_from_space_the_aether.html This is not the same as neutrons from nowhere, except that the neutron has only a short half-life, and you expect to see hydrogen in the end. Does that account for the hydrogen phenomenon, and if so, where is the decay energy? Does trans-dimensional transfer happen isothermally, regardless? (at least from the perspective of the host) That would be the only way it could happen. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
Let us not throw away the CoE too fast. I suggest that an solution will one day appear that does not do this. Dave -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint To: vortex-l Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 9:15 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) 1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then: 1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)? . For every neutron that exits, does another enter this space (to balance hings, remember CoE!)? . If either #1 or #1a are possible, and not #2, then CoE gets tossed out the indow! Altho, for all practical purposes, CoE would still appear to be intact, BUT, if e can optimize the popping out of existence within some object, and it happens ften enough, then it would be possible to violate CoE within that object. Jones just opened a can of worms... and the feast begins! -) Mark rom: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] ent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:29 PM o: vortex-l@eskimo.com ubject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) Original Message- rom: mix...@bigpond.com > They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space. This isn't about "need" Robin - it is about explaining results. Most of the ime, of course, this kind of cooling reaction simply does not happen. Do you now of any other reports of anomalous cooling? > Hydrino molecules can quite easily disappear into ordinary space. They can imply migrate through the atomic interstices of the container wall into the tmosphere. Yes, of course ... at least if they are real - then that is probably true. But n that case there is only excess heat - not anomalous cooling. IOW, that will not explain a cooling effect, as you acknowledge, so why mention t? The Ahern results are beyond any possible chemical effect. The purpose of he posting was to present a possible rationale involving a new kind of ractional hydrogen reaction, where the assumptions are very different. Net ooling instead of heating. The common denominator seems to be simple - if neutrons can do this disappearing ct, then virtual neutrons (maximum redundancy hydrogen) can possibly do the ame. In neither case am I claiming it is anything more than a remote ossibility. When I opined that there could be some kind of "momentum effect" what I meant as that in certain circumstances the entire sequence from atomic hydrogen to irtual neutron happens as one unstoppable progression, unlike the Mills' ydrino - which is a sequential chain of reactions which occurs in up to 137 teps. After all, this thread is merely the start of a new hypothesis, at this time - ith which to explain new phenomena which previously was beyond explanation. aybe it will not survive more accurate objections, but one cannot disqualify it asily by suggesting that another unproved presumption (Mills hydrinos operating n only one way) makes it not possible ☺ simply because Mills himself may have verlooked another feature of a broader phenomena. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
1. If a neutron can disappear into the vacuum, then: 1a. Can a neutron pop INTO this space (spontaneous formation)? 2. For every neutron that exits, does another enter this space (to balance things, remember CoE!)? 3. If either #1 or #1a are possible, and not #2, then CoE gets tossed out the window! Altho, for all practical purposes, CoE would still appear to be intact, BUT, if we can optimize the popping out of existence within some object, and it happens often enough, then it would be possible to violate CoE within that object. Jones just opened a can of worms... and the feast begins! :-) -Mark _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:29 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com > They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space. This isn't about "need" Robin - it is about explaining results. Most of the time, of course, this kind of cooling reaction simply does not happen. Do you know of any other reports of anomalous cooling? > Hydrino molecules can quite easily disappear into ordinary space. They can > simply migrate through the atomic interstices of the container wall into the > atmosphere. Yes, of course ... at least if they are real - then that is probably true. But in that case there is only excess heat - not anomalous cooling. IOW, that will not explain a cooling effect, as you acknowledge, so why mention it? The Ahern results are beyond any possible chemical effect. The purpose of the posting was to present a possible rationale involving a new kind of fractional hydrogen reaction, where the assumptions are very different. Net cooling instead of heating. The common denominator seems to be simple - if neutrons can do this disappearing act, then virtual neutrons (maximum redundancy hydrogen) can possibly do the same. In neither case am I claiming it is anything more than a remote possibility. When I opined that there could be some kind of "momentum effect" what I meant was that in certain circumstances the entire sequence from atomic hydrogen to virtual neutron happens as one unstoppable progression, unlike the Mills' hydrino - which is a sequential chain of reactions which occurs in up to 137 steps. After all, this thread is merely the start of a new hypothesis, at this time - with which to explain new phenomena which previously was beyond explanation. Maybe it will not survive more accurate objections, but one cannot disqualify it easily by suggesting that another unproved presumption (Mills hydrinos operating in only one way) makes it not possible ☺ simply because Mills himself may have overlooked another feature of a broader phenomena. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
Seems to me the "Sea of Negative Energy" must be involved and Feynman's Nobel might be revoked. T
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
-Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com > They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space. This isn't about "need" Robin - it is about explaining results. Most of the time, of course, this kind of cooling reaction simply does not happen. Do you know of any other reports of anomalous cooling? > Hydrino molecules can quite easily disappear into ordinary space. They can simply migrate through the atomic interstices of the container wall into the atmosphere. Yes, of course ... at least if they are real - then that is probably true. But in that case there is only excess heat - not anomalous cooling. IOW, that will not explain a cooling effect, as you acknowledge, so why mention it? The Ahern results are beyond any possible chemical effect. The purpose of the posting was to present a possible rationale involving a new kind of fractional hydrogen reaction, where the assumptions are very different. Net cooling instead of heating. The common denominator seems to be simple - if neutrons can do this disappearing act, then virtual neutrons (maximum redundancy hydrogen) can possibly do the same. In neither case am I claiming it is anything more than a remote possibility. When I opined that there could be some kind of "momentum effect" what I meant was that in certain circumstances the entire sequence from atomic hydrogen to virtual neutron happens as one unstoppable progression, unlike the Mills' hydrino - which is a sequential chain of reactions which occurs in up to 137 steps. After all, this thread is merely the start of a new hypothesis, at this time - with which to explain new phenomena which previously was beyond explanation. Maybe it will not survive more accurate objections, but one cannot disqualify it easily by suggesting that another unproved presumption (Mills hydrinos operating in only one way) makes it not possible :-) simply because Mills himself may have overlooked another feature of a broader phenomena. Jones <>
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
Perhaps the neutrons are captured in some manner and allowed to decay into proton, electron, and an electron antineutrino. The antineutrino would easily escape the system carrying away mass and energy. The total kinetic energy associated with the neutron in the test system would be reduced by that carried away. Temperature is a measure of kinetic energy. A lot depends upon the magnitude of energy that is carried away by the antineutrino. If it carries away all of the energy required to make a neutron from the parts, then this process might explain the loss of heat. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l Sent: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 8:01 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos) Original Message- rom: mix...@bigpond.com Why would Hydrinos be any more likely to interact with another dimension han rdinary matter? i Robin, Why would neutrons? This is all based on the speculative paper cited. The paper apparently does not go into much detail on an underlying ationale, and neither did I. But if neutrons would disappear from 3-space via some kind of oscillation neutrino-like), then maximally reduced hydrinos could possibly do the same. The cooling seen is not chemical (endothermic) so it is hard to explain therwise. Jones
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
-Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com Why would Hydrinos be any more likely to interact with another dimension than ordinary matter? Hi Robin, Why would neutrons? This is all based on the speculative paper cited. The paper apparently does not go into much detail on an underlying rationale, and neither did I. But if neutrons would disappear from 3-space via some kind of oscillation (neutrino-like), then maximally reduced hydrinos could possibly do the same. The cooling seen is not chemical (endothermic) so it is hard to explain otherwise. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:37:36 -0700: Hi, [snip] >E=mc^2 works both ways, apparently - and when mass "disappears" - in a >dimensional sense, so does the corresponding energy it contained. This is >seen as heat removal from a hot reactor. The active species does not have to >be 'mirror matter' as in the original article - but if that helps in >appreciating the view through Alice's 'looking glass' - good! ... it is kind >of catchy, so let's keep it. > Why would Hydrinos be any more likely to interact with another dimension than ordinary matter? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:37:36 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Essentially, what I think happens with nano-titanium cooling is that the >nanoparticles - which are a strong Mills' catalyst - collapse to the full >redundancy in one continuous step - where there is both heat release on >shrinkage, followed immediately by massive heat loss. on the atomic level, >when the hydrino essentially disappears into reciprocal space. The net >result is active cooling. Why it only happens with titanium needs to be >answered. Perhaps it is a momentum effect of some kind. They don't need to disappear into reciprocal space. Hydrino molecules can quite easily disappear into ordinary space. They can simply migrate through the atomic interstices of the container wall into the atmosphere. ;-) However the energy lost in this manner is never going to be more than a few meV (milli-eV)/ molecule (i.e. normal thermal kinetic energy), and could in no way compensate for the energy of formation (at least 10's of eV / molecule). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:37:36 -0700: Hi, [snip] >The interesting part (for this thread) is that with Titanium nanopowder, >instead of a temperature inversion indicating gain, you get an anomalous >"sink." For instance, instead of an expected 10 degree drop (out-to-in) the >spread can be much higher, an order of magnitude perhaps, indicating "active >cooling". Perhaps an endothermic chemical reaction? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 16 Jun 2012 10:37:36 -0700: Hi, [snip] >The current is kept absolutely >constant to the heater, so that there is no variation on P-in during the >run. Resistance heaters usually have a resistance that is temperature dependant (at least to some degree), so a constant current doesn't necessarily imply constant power. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:Missing Neutrons (hydrinos)
It is easy to go over the top with dramatization on this one. This scenario does not need to involve parallel universes (in the SciFi sense) nor anything theological. In fact, Dirac's "reciprocal space" works fine - as the "repository" for deep hydrinos, and with no other fictional "baggage" so to speak. BTW - for those who do not grasp what actually happened in the EPRI reports, here is a short synopsis of Ahern's experiments. First, there is a well insulated reactor with numerous RTDs for accurate temperature measurement. The reactor is filled with pressurized hydrogen and various sample nanopowders - including an inert control powder. There is a resistance heater, drawing in the tens of watts. The current is kept absolutely constant to the heater, so that there is no variation on P-in during the run. With the 'control', you will find from datalogging that a specific rate of thermal transfer occurs between the outer RTD, where the heater is located and the inner. Hydrogen under pressure is a good conductor of heat so this is normally only a few degrees. For example, in the control setup (no active powder) one might see 350C on the outside and 340C on the inside. The difference is minimal and never varies. OK - when one switches from the control to active nanopowder, things get interesting and if there is excess energy from the interaction of hydrogen with the powder, there will be an "inversion", so that the inner RTD becomes hotter - often much hotter than the outer. That happens with nano-nickel, and the resulting temperature can be close to 100 degrees inverted. This is NOT calorimetry, but there are implications to be firmed up on further experimentation. The interesting part (for this thread) is that with Titanium nanopowder, instead of a temperature inversion indicating gain, you get an anomalous "sink." For instance, instead of an expected 10 degree drop (out-to-in) the spread can be much higher, an order of magnitude perhaps, indicating "active cooling". Any round numbers above are for illustration purposes only; but the results are shocking and significant in both anomalies - heat and cooling. And guess what, the cooling anomaly could be almost as important as the heating, in terms of new physics. EVEN IF THERE IS NO PATH TO COMERCIALIZATION - for an active cooling anomaly, it could be important if it points the way to an accurate understanding of the heat. That is where this is going. I havent heard a better explanation for active nano-cooling than the disappearance of matter from one spatial dimension into "reciprocal space." This space may not be a true dimension, but a fractal instead. "Fractal" is being used in the original way to mean a fractional dimension. Plus, the matter which is lost may not be a neutron, per se, but instead a maximum-redundant hydrino. Essentially, what I think happens with nano-titanium cooling is that the nanoparticles - which are a strong Mills' catalyst - collapse to the full redundancy in one continuous step - where there is both heat release on shrinkage, followed immediately by massive heat loss. on the atomic level, when the hydrino essentially disappears into reciprocal space. The net result is active cooling. Why it only happens with titanium needs to be answered. Perhaps it is a momentum effect of some kind. E=mc^2 works both ways, apparently - and when mass "disappears" - in a dimensional sense, so does the corresponding energy it contained. This is seen as heat removal from a hot reactor. The active species does not have to be 'mirror matter' as in the original article - but if that helps in appreciating the view through Alice's 'looking glass' - good! ... it is kind of catchy, so let's keep it. Jones -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder The mystery of the eternal is now nothing more than CoE. > Good find - and the implications are a bit convoluted. The curious thing is > that mirror matter neutrons (or deep hydrinos) will explain anomalous heat > loss quite nicely. > > As you may remember, Ahern reported that some of his Arata-style samples > demonstrated anomalous heat LOSS (more of the samples show gain than loss, > and only a few showed nothing). > > This paper, in fact - could explain anomalous heat loss better than anything > I have seen thus far. > > BTW the all of the nanopowder samples which showed thermal loss were made of > nano-titanium embedded in zirconia. All of the nickel and palladium samples > showed gain. > > Jones >> Neutrons escaping to a parallel world? >> In a paper recently published in EPJ C¹, researchers hypothesised the >> existence of mirror particles to explain the anomalous loss of >> neutrons observed experimentally. The existence of such mirror matter >> had been suggested in various scientific contexts some time ago, >> including the search for suitable dark matter candidates. >> http://phys.org/news/2012-06-neutrons-parallel-world.html >> > > >
