Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Tue, 14 May 2019 20:11:46 -0400:
Hi Axil,
[snip]
>If what you propose is true then the production and/or the purification of
>metals by a customer of the ferrosilicon with this produce would be near
>impossible let along noticeable.   The key to this issue is detection of
>this impurity in larges amount by the either the smelter or any of its
>customers over years of use. If you still believe that this improbable
>situation is true, then your resistance to the obvious situation is
>unshakable.

I think we have argued this to death. I will make no further comment (much to
everyone else's relief). ;)

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

If what you propose is true then the production and/or the purification of
metals by a customer of the ferrosilicon with this produce would be near
impossible let along noticeable.   The key to this issue is detection of
this impurity in larges amount by the either the smelter or any of its
customers over years of use. If you still believe that this improbable
situation is true, then your resistance to the obvious situation is
unshakable.

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 5:39 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Tue, 14 May 2019 00:34:05 -0400:
> Hi,
> >How about the hazard risks?
>
> Note the "human contact" from a previous post. When the material was
> analyzed/used the Triiron dodecarbonyl would probably have dissociated
> into Fe +
> CO again, and the CO escaped as a gas, leaving just Fe & Si in the proper
> proportions.
> The CO would likely not have been noticed in a reasonably ventilated space.
>
> I'm far from certain that this scenario actually occurred, but it is a
> possibility, and I think more a likely explanation than a transmutation
> reaction
> that produced no apparent energy.
>
> Note that 4.5 ton of CO converted to Si would yield an energy of over 56
> million
> tons of TNT. This is about as much as the largest nuclear weapon ever
> tested
> (Soviet "Tsar Bombe"). Not very likely to have gone unnoticed on a daily
> basis.
> ;).
>
>
> Note also that in a transmutation scenario, CO would need to have been
> transmuted to both Fe & Si in just the right proportions to maintain the
> correct
> overall ratio of Fe-Si (1:3 by weight?). This would imply an extraordinary
> degree of control over two different nuclear reactions that they didn't
> even
> know were happening.
>
> Furthermore, the reaction that they proposed to create the Fe used O18,
> which is
> only 0.2% of natural Oxygen, and though I haven't run the numbers, my gut
> tells
> me that there just wouldn't have been enough of it present in the input
> materials.
>
> >
> >Safety Information of Triiron dodecarbonyl (CAS NO.17685-52-8):
> >Hazard Codes: [image: Flammable]F,[image: Harmful]Xn,[image: Toxic]T
> >
> >On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 9:00 PM  wrote:
> >
> >> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sun, 12 May 2019 20:28:44 -0400:
> >> Hi,
> >> [snip]
> >> >The externally low  Melting point?: ?165 °C (329 °F; 438 K) would seem
> to
> >> >me to be a dead give-a-way to the presence of 25% volume of Fe3(CO)12
> by
> >> >weight.
> >>
> >> If the output from the reactor/furnace were cooled very rapidly, there
> >> could
> >> still be CO trapped inside that could form such crystals, where they
> would
> >> be
> >> exposed to neither air nor human contact.
> >> [snip]
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Robin van Spaandonk
> >>
> >> local asymmetry = temporary success
> >>
> >>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Tue, 14 May 2019 00:34:05 -0400:
Hi,
>How about the hazard risks?

Note the "human contact" from a previous post. When the material was
analyzed/used the Triiron dodecarbonyl would probably have dissociated into Fe +
CO again, and the CO escaped as a gas, leaving just Fe & Si in the proper
proportions.
The CO would likely not have been noticed in a reasonably ventilated space.

I'm far from certain that this scenario actually occurred, but it is a
possibility, and I think more a likely explanation than a transmutation reaction
that produced no apparent energy.

Note that 4.5 ton of CO converted to Si would yield an energy of over 56 million
tons of TNT. This is about as much as the largest nuclear weapon ever tested
(Soviet "Tsar Bombe"). Not very likely to have gone unnoticed on a daily basis.
;). 


Note also that in a transmutation scenario, CO would need to have been
transmuted to both Fe & Si in just the right proportions to maintain the correct
overall ratio of Fe-Si (1:3 by weight?). This would imply an extraordinary
degree of control over two different nuclear reactions that they didn't even
know were happening.

Furthermore, the reaction that they proposed to create the Fe used O18, which is
only 0.2% of natural Oxygen, and though I haven't run the numbers, my gut tells
me that there just wouldn't have been enough of it present in the input
materials.

>
>Safety Information of Triiron dodecarbonyl (CAS NO.17685-52-8):
>Hazard Codes: [image: Flammable]F,[image: Harmful]Xn,[image: Toxic]T
>
>On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 9:00 PM  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sun, 12 May 2019 20:28:44 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>> >The externally low  Melting point?: ?165 °C (329 °F; 438 K) would seem to
>> >me to be a dead give-a-way to the presence of 25% volume of Fe3(CO)12 by
>> >weight.
>>
>> If the output from the reactor/furnace were cooled very rapidly, there
>> could
>> still be CO trapped inside that could form such crystals, where they would
>> be
>> exposed to neither air nor human contact.
>> [snip]
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> local asymmetry = temporary success
>>
>>
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

How about the hazard risks?

Safety Information of Triiron dodecarbonyl (CAS NO.17685-52-8):
Hazard Codes: [image: Flammable]F,[image: Harmful]Xn,[image: Toxic]T

On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 9:00 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sun, 12 May 2019 20:28:44 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >The externally low  Melting point?: ?165 °C (329 °F; 438 K) would seem to
> >me to be a dead give-a-way to the presence of 25% volume of Fe3(CO)12 by
> >weight.
>
> If the output from the reactor/furnace were cooled very rapidly, there
> could
> still be CO trapped inside that could form such crystals, where they would
> be
> exposed to neither air nor human contact.
> [snip]
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sun, 12 May 2019 20:28:44 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>The externally low  Melting point?: ?165 °C (329 °F; 438 K) would seem to
>me to be a dead give-a-way to the presence of 25% volume of Fe3(CO)12 by
>weight.

If the output from the reactor/furnace were cooled very rapidly, there could
still be CO trapped inside that could form such crystals, where they would be
exposed to neither air nor human contact.
[snip]
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

The externally low  Melting point‎: ‎165 °C (329 °F; 438 K) would seem to
me to be a dead give-a-way to the presence of 25% volume of Fe3(CO)12 by
weight.


Here again the safety profile is problematic

Triiron dodecarbonyl Safety Profile

Safety Information of Triiron dodecarbonyl (CAS NO.17685-52-8):
Hazard Codes: [image: Flammable]F,[image: Harmful]Xn,[image: Toxic]T
Risk Statements: 11-23/24/25-36/37/38-20/22
R11:Highly flammable.
R23/24/25:Toxic by inhalation, in contact with skin and if swallowed.
R20/22:Harmful by inhalation and if swallowed.
R36/37/38:Irritating to eyes, respiratory system and skin.
Safety Statements: 16-26-28-33-36/37/39-45-7/9-24
S16:Keep away from sources of ignition.
S26: In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water
and seek medical advice.
S28:After contact with skin, wash immediately with plenty of soap-suds.
S33:Take precautionary measures against static discharges.
S36/37/39:Wear suitable protective clothing, gloves and eye/face
protection.
S45:In case of accident or if you feel unwell, seek medical advice
immediately (show the label whenever possible.)
S24:Avoid contact with skin.
S7:Keep container tightly closed.
S9:Keep container in a well-ventilated place.
RIDADR: UN 3175 4.1/PG 2
WGK Germany: 3
F: 10-23
HazardClass: 6.1
PackingGroup: II



On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 4:40 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sun, 12 May 2019 03:39:08 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
>
> 1) It may be Fe3(CO)12, a solid in the form of micro-crystals, rather than
> iron
> pentacarbonyl.
> 2) They didn't even know it was present, hence were hardly in a position
> to warn
> anyone.
>
> >Fe(CO)5 is toxic, which is of concern because of its volatility (vapour
> >pressure: 21 millimetres of mercury (2.8 kPa) at 20 °C). If inhaled
> >, iron pentacarbonyl may cause lung
> >irritation, toxic pneumonitis
> ><
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Toxic_pneumonitis=edit=1
> >,
> >or pulmonary edema . Like
> >other metal carbonyls, Fe(CO)5 is flammable
> >. It is, however, considerably
> >less toxic than nickel tetracarbonyl
> >.
> >
> >In regards to occupational exposures to iron pentacarbonyl, the National
> >Institute for Occupational Safety and Health
> ><
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institute_for_Occupational_Safety_and_Health
> >
> >has
> >set a recommended exposure limit
> > at 0.1 ppm
> >(0.23 mg/m3) over an eight-hour time-weighted average, and a short-term
> >exposure limit 
> at
> >0.2 ppm (0.45 mg/m3).[14]
> >
> >
> >
> >If Fe(CO)5 were present in the final product, the smelter would be
> required
> >to warn the customer about its toxicity when handled, Remember, this  iron
> >pentacarbonyl is 25% of the product.
> >
> >On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:58 AM  wrote:
> >
> >> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 23:40:53 -0400:
> >> Hi,
> >> [snip]
> >> >The  ferrosilicon chemistry
> >> >
> >> >https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide
> >> >
> >> >as per its reference as follows:
> >> >
> >> >Production of Ferroalloys
> >> ><
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B978008096988655>
> >> >
> >> >Rauf Hurman Eric, in Treatise on Process Metallurgy: Industrial
> Processes
> >> >, 2014
> >> >1.10.4.7.2 Fundamental Aspects
> >> >
> >> [snip]
> >> >
> >> >Sorry, but  the only chemically carbon bound compounds invoked with
> >> >ferrosilicon
> >> >chemistry is CO and SiC.
> >>
> >> Normally yes. However this may throw more light on the subject:-
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_carbonyl
> >>
> >> &
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triiron_dodecacarbonyl which is a solid.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Robin van Spaandonk
> >>
> >> local asymmetry = temporary success
> >>
> >>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sun, 12 May 2019 04:30:24 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

I can't accept Kervran without reading at least one of his books. An English
version would be preferable, but I'm not willing to pay over $100 for a copy.
I tried buying a $20 version online, but they wouldn't ship to Australia.
Would be happy to pay for cheap beaten-up English copy.

As previously mentioned, the only way I could accept massive transmutation
without an energy signature is if all the energy were removed by
(anti-)neutrinos.

His original experiment with chickens and eggs is easily explained if Calcium
were leached from the chicken's bones to form egg shells.
It can be replaced in the bones with Magnesium. Calcium phosphate (bones) is
actually slightly stronger with a few percent Magnesium phosphate included.

>Why doesn't a living organism burn up when that organism is transmuting
>elements through nuclear fusion and/or fission?
>
>The LENR reaction will allow the energy and particles produced by
>transmutation to escape to the far field while the LENR reaction is active.
>This energy and particle product of transmutation will travel in a state of
>quantum mechanical superposition thereby being in a state where this
>destructive byproduct of the LENR reaction is unable to interact with
>reality... i.e. the organism. When the LENR reaction terminates, the
>transmuted element(s) will appear inside the organism in a stable and
>quiescent state. The destructive byproduct of the LENR reaction will also
>materialize into reality but the location of those particles and energy
>will be far from their point of creation inside the organism.
>
>The general principle of superposition of quantum mechanics applies to the
>states [that are theoretically possible without mutual interference or
>contradiction] ... of any one dynamical system. It requires us to assume
>that between these states there exist peculiar relationships such that
>whenever the system is definitely in one state we can consider it as being
>partly in each of two or more other states. The original state must be
>regarded as the result of a kind of superposition of the two or more new
>states, in a way that cannot be conceived on classical ideas. Any state may
>be considered as the result of a superposition of two or more other states,
>and indeed in an infinite number of ways. Conversely, any two or more
>states may be superposed to give a new state...
>
>Atoms can be in two places at the same time
>https://phys.org/news/2015-...
>
>
>[image: Thumbnail]
>
>
>
>On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 3:39 AM Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> Fe(CO)5 is toxic, which is of concern because of its volatility (vapour
>> pressure: 21 millimetres of mercury (2.8 kPa) at 20 °C). If inhaled
>> , iron pentacarbonyl may cause lung
>> irritation, toxic pneumonitis
>> ,
>> or pulmonary edema . Like
>> other metal carbonyls, Fe(CO)5 is flammable
>> . It is, however, considerably
>> less toxic than nickel tetracarbonyl
>> .
>>
>> In regards to occupational exposures to iron pentacarbonyl, the National
>> Institute for Occupational Safety and Health
>> 
>>  has
>> set a recommended exposure limit
>>  at 0.1 ppm
>> (0.23 mg/m3) over an eight-hour time-weighted average, and a short-term
>> exposure limit  at
>> 0.2 ppm (0.45 mg/m3).[14]
>> 
>>
>>
>> If Fe(CO)5 were present in the final product, the smelter would be
>> required to warn the customer about its toxicity when handled, Remember,
>> this  iron pentacarbonyl is 25% of the product.
>>
>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:58 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 23:40:53 -0400:
>>> Hi,
>>> [snip]
>>> >The  ferrosilicon chemistry
>>> >
>>> >https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide
>>> >
>>> >as per its reference as follows:
>>> >
>>> >Production of Ferroalloys
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Rauf Hurman Eric, in Treatise on Process Metallurgy: Industrial Processes
>>> >, 2014
>>> >1.10.4.7.2 Fundamental Aspects
>>> >
>>> [snip]
>>> >
>>> >Sorry, but  the only chemically carbon bound compounds invoked with
>>> 

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sun, 12 May 2019 03:39:08 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

1) It may be Fe3(CO)12, a solid in the form of micro-crystals, rather than iron
pentacarbonyl.
2) They didn't even know it was present, hence were hardly in a position to warn
anyone.

>Fe(CO)5 is toxic, which is of concern because of its volatility (vapour
>pressure: 21 millimetres of mercury (2.8 kPa) at 20 °C). If inhaled
>, iron pentacarbonyl may cause lung
>irritation, toxic pneumonitis
>,
>or pulmonary edema . Like
>other metal carbonyls, Fe(CO)5 is flammable
>. It is, however, considerably
>less toxic than nickel tetracarbonyl
>.
>
>In regards to occupational exposures to iron pentacarbonyl, the National
>Institute for Occupational Safety and Health
>
>has
>set a recommended exposure limit
> at 0.1 ppm
>(0.23 mg/m3) over an eight-hour time-weighted average, and a short-term
>exposure limit  at
>0.2 ppm (0.45 mg/m3).[14]
>
>
>
>If Fe(CO)5 were present in the final product, the smelter would be required
>to warn the customer about its toxicity when handled, Remember, this  iron
>pentacarbonyl is 25% of the product.
>
>On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:58 AM  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 23:40:53 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>> >The  ferrosilicon chemistry
>> >
>> >https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide
>> >
>> >as per its reference as follows:
>> >
>> >Production of Ferroalloys
>> >
>> >
>> >Rauf Hurman Eric, in Treatise on Process Metallurgy: Industrial Processes
>> >, 2014
>> >1.10.4.7.2 Fundamental Aspects
>> >
>> [snip]
>> >
>> >Sorry, but  the only chemically carbon bound compounds invoked with
>> >ferrosilicon
>> >chemistry is CO and SiC.
>>
>> Normally yes. However this may throw more light on the subject:-
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_carbonyl
>>
>> &
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triiron_dodecacarbonyl which is a solid.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> local asymmetry = temporary success
>>
>>
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

Why doesn't a living organism burn up when that organism is transmuting
elements through nuclear fusion and/or fission?

The LENR reaction will allow the energy and particles produced by
transmutation to escape to the far field while the LENR reaction is active.
This energy and particle product of transmutation will travel in a state of
quantum mechanical superposition thereby being in a state where this
destructive byproduct of the LENR reaction is unable to interact with
reality... i.e. the organism. When the LENR reaction terminates, the
transmuted element(s) will appear inside the organism in a stable and
quiescent state. The destructive byproduct of the LENR reaction will also
materialize into reality but the location of those particles and energy
will be far from their point of creation inside the organism.

The general principle of superposition of quantum mechanics applies to the
states [that are theoretically possible without mutual interference or
contradiction] ... of any one dynamical system. It requires us to assume
that between these states there exist peculiar relationships such that
whenever the system is definitely in one state we can consider it as being
partly in each of two or more other states. The original state must be
regarded as the result of a kind of superposition of the two or more new
states, in a way that cannot be conceived on classical ideas. Any state may
be considered as the result of a superposition of two or more other states,
and indeed in an infinite number of ways. Conversely, any two or more
states may be superposed to give a new state...

Atoms can be in two places at the same time
https://phys.org/news/2015-...


[image: Thumbnail]



On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 3:39 AM Axil Axil  wrote:

> Fe(CO)5 is toxic, which is of concern because of its volatility (vapour
> pressure: 21 millimetres of mercury (2.8 kPa) at 20 °C). If inhaled
> , iron pentacarbonyl may cause lung
> irritation, toxic pneumonitis
> ,
> or pulmonary edema . Like
> other metal carbonyls, Fe(CO)5 is flammable
> . It is, however, considerably
> less toxic than nickel tetracarbonyl
> .
>
> In regards to occupational exposures to iron pentacarbonyl, the National
> Institute for Occupational Safety and Health
> 
>  has
> set a recommended exposure limit
>  at 0.1 ppm
> (0.23 mg/m3) over an eight-hour time-weighted average, and a short-term
> exposure limit  at
> 0.2 ppm (0.45 mg/m3).[14]
> 
>
>
> If Fe(CO)5 were present in the final product, the smelter would be
> required to warn the customer about its toxicity when handled, Remember,
> this  iron pentacarbonyl is 25% of the product.
>
> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:58 AM  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 23:40:53 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>> >The  ferrosilicon chemistry
>> >
>> >https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide
>> >
>> >as per its reference as follows:
>> >
>> >Production of Ferroalloys
>> >
>> >
>> >Rauf Hurman Eric, in Treatise on Process Metallurgy: Industrial Processes
>> >, 2014
>> >1.10.4.7.2 Fundamental Aspects
>> >
>> [snip]
>> >
>> >Sorry, but  the only chemically carbon bound compounds invoked with
>> >ferrosilicon
>> >chemistry is CO and SiC.
>>
>> Normally yes. However this may throw more light on the subject:-
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_carbonyl
>>
>> &
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triiron_dodecacarbonyl which is a solid.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> local asymmetry = temporary success
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

Fe(CO)5 is toxic, which is of concern because of its volatility (vapour
pressure: 21 millimetres of mercury (2.8 kPa) at 20 °C). If inhaled
, iron pentacarbonyl may cause lung
irritation, toxic pneumonitis
,
or pulmonary edema . Like
other metal carbonyls, Fe(CO)5 is flammable
. It is, however, considerably
less toxic than nickel tetracarbonyl
.

In regards to occupational exposures to iron pentacarbonyl, the National
Institute for Occupational Safety and Health

has
set a recommended exposure limit
 at 0.1 ppm
(0.23 mg/m3) over an eight-hour time-weighted average, and a short-term
exposure limit  at
0.2 ppm (0.45 mg/m3).[14]



If Fe(CO)5 were present in the final product, the smelter would be required
to warn the customer about its toxicity when handled, Remember, this  iron
pentacarbonyl is 25% of the product.

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:58 AM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 23:40:53 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >The  ferrosilicon chemistry
> >
> >https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide
> >
> >as per its reference as follows:
> >
> >Production of Ferroalloys
> >
> >
> >Rauf Hurman Eric, in Treatise on Process Metallurgy: Industrial Processes
> >, 2014
> >1.10.4.7.2 Fundamental Aspects
> >
> [snip]
> >
> >Sorry, but  the only chemically carbon bound compounds invoked with
> >ferrosilicon
> >chemistry is CO and SiC.
>
> Normally yes. However this may throw more light on the subject:-
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_carbonyl
>
> &
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triiron_dodecacarbonyl which is a solid.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 23:40:53 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>The  ferrosilicon chemistry
>
>https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide
>
>as per its reference as follows:
>
>Production of Ferroalloys
>
>
>Rauf Hurman Eric, in Treatise on Process Metallurgy: Industrial Processes
>, 2014
>1.10.4.7.2 Fundamental Aspects
>
[snip]
>
>Sorry, but  the only chemically carbon bound compounds invoked with
>ferrosilicon
>chemistry is CO and SiC.

Normally yes. However this may throw more light on the subject:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_carbonyl

& 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triiron_dodecacarbonyl which is a solid.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

Why do microbs live through fusion and fission reactions during
transmutation of elements. This transmutation process can not be denied.
But no one has explained how LENR works in microbs and why these reactions
produce no detectable energy.


Fusions and also fissions of atoms occur inside the bodies of living
beings. Although very few in number, these biological transmutations
reactions involve a large number of species, from bacteria to mammals, in
several biological processes that control and are essential for the life
processes of these organisms.

Researchers began to observe atoms conservation anomalies from the
time conservation
of matter was understood before 1800. It is only from 1959 that some
researchers have understood that transmutations could explain biologic
abnormalities. Since 1975, confirmation and publication of scientific works
by Louis Kervran can be considered to have proven the existence of this
phenomenon, but in 2014, it still has no confirmed theoretical explanation.

This biological effect seems to combine:

   - a chemical reaction
   - a low-energy interaction of atomic nuclei
   - and a catalysis (specific) which favors them in a biological process.

>From 1799 to 1873 researchers asked themselves whether these transmutations
exist. From 1959 to 1972 they have been proven by more than 6,000
elementary experiments. In 2003 Jean-Paul Biberian took stock of all the
atoms involved in one bacterium. Since then some researchers have been
wondering how to use these biological transmutations to reduce pollution by
conventional radioactive waste.

A french site describe this history with many references. Some interesting
points listed here are:

   - The reactions observed in biology are based mostly on mergers and
   fissions with hydrogen, oxygen or carbon and involve at least: H, C, N, O,
   Na, Mg, Al, Si, P, S , K, Ca, Mn, Fe.
   - Many of these reactions are reversible, that is to say made also in
   the other direction by other biological processes.
   - Only certain isotopes are concerned and the products are all stable
   isotopes.
   - When these biological atomic nuclear reactions, we failed to detect
   radiation typically produced by high energy reactions (alpha, beta, gamma,
   X-rays).
   - They only use nuclear interactions called low energy.
   - They are accompanied by a variation in mass in agreement with the
   average binding energy.
   - These reactions are slow.
   - They occur in biological processes.
   - *The residual thermal effect is very small and does not interfere with
   living beings.*
   - Louis Kervran has noted these reactions following this example Mg + O:
   = Ca ([1]
   

p
   111)
   - They respect the principle of conservation of matter, they will
   integrate the correspondence mass-energy (E = mc2) of relativity and change
   the invariance principle becomes: In biological transmutations, the
   physico-chemical reactions retain the number of nucleons but alter the
   chemical element composition.
   - They occur perhaps in geological processes, or in a neighboring
   phenomenon called “Cold Fusion” (Cold Fusion). In these cases the
   conditions are quite different pressures and temperatures and are not
   compatible with life.


Vysotskii et al. studied the potential of bacterial transmutations for
clean up of nuclear waste.

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 11:40 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> The  ferrosilicon chemistry
>
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide
>
> as per its reference as follows:
>
> Production of Ferroalloys
> 
>
> Rauf Hurman Eric, in Treatise on Process Metallurgy: Industrial Processes
> , 2014
> 1.10.4.7.2 Fundamental Aspects
>
> The overall reaction for the reduction of silica with carbon is simple,
> but it involves the absorption of considerable quantity of heat as well as
> attainment of very high temperature in order that the reaction:
> (1.10.75)SiO2+2C=Si+2CO
>
> shall proceed to the right. The standard Gibbs free energy change is zero
> at 1937 K so that a temperature well in excess of this is needed to drive
> the reaction in a forward direction. In reality, however, the above
> reaction does not represent the actual mechanism of the reduction process
> that occurs through a number of intermediate ones, the principal ones being:
> (1.10.76)SiO2+3C=SiC+2CO
>
> and
> (1.10.77)SiO2+C=SiOg+CO
>
> It is noteworthy to see that reaction (1.10.77) produces silicon monoxide gas
> at high temperatures which due to its gaseous nature may result in silicon
> losses if not properly handled and engineered during the process in the
> submerged arc furnace. Reaction (1.10.76)-producing silicon carbide
>  is
> well-known to occur and 

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

The  ferrosilicon chemistry

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide

as per its reference as follows:

Production of Ferroalloys


Rauf Hurman Eric, in Treatise on Process Metallurgy: Industrial Processes
, 2014
1.10.4.7.2 Fundamental Aspects

The overall reaction for the reduction of silica with carbon is simple, but
it involves the absorption of considerable quantity of heat as well as
attainment of very high temperature in order that the reaction:
(1.10.75)SiO2+2C=Si+2CO

shall proceed to the right. The standard Gibbs free energy change is zero
at 1937 K so that a temperature well in excess of this is needed to drive
the reaction in a forward direction. In reality, however, the above
reaction does not represent the actual mechanism of the reduction process
that occurs through a number of intermediate ones, the principal ones being:
(1.10.76)SiO2+3C=SiC+2CO

and
(1.10.77)SiO2+C=SiOg+CO

It is noteworthy to see that reaction (1.10.77) produces silicon monoxide gas
at high temperatures which due to its gaseous nature may result in silicon
losses if not properly handled and engineered during the process in the
submerged arc furnace. Reaction (1.10.76)-producing silicon carbide
 is
well-known to occur and accretions of silicon carbide
 are
found in the cooler parts of a furnace when it is shut down and dug out.
The reaction is favored by an excess of carbon in the charge. The reason
why silicon carbide is not found in the hotter parts of the furnace is
probably because it reacts at a high temperature with silicon monoxide as
well as with silica itself:
(1.10.78)SiC+SiOg=2Si+CO
(1.10.79)2SiC+SiO2=3Si+2CO

The silicon monoxide reaction (1.10.77) is favored by a deficiency of
carbon, and in a furnace operated with a cool top much of this is condensed
on the carbon particles
 to
be reduced to metal on their descent in the furnace. It can thus be
postulated that the overall reaction probably takes place in two stages,
namely the formation of silicon carbide in the upper relatively cooler
parts of the charge followed by reaction with silicon monoxide as well as
with silica in the hotter regions in the vicinity of electrodes, eventually
producing liquid silicon.

In the making of ferrosilicon
, the
reduction process is facilitated because the solution of silicon in liquid
iron is a process with a favorable free energy change as well as with an
exothermic enthalpy change, so the reduction can take place at a lower
temperature; for example, the change in free energy where pure liquid
silicon dissolves to give a 1% solution:
(1.10.80)Sil=Si1%ΔG°=−119,240–25.48TJ/mol
at smelting temperatures. Obviously for concentrated solutions, the
activity of silicon dissolved in iron needs to be taken in account in
calculating the free energy change in any particular set of conditions. In
fact, when making low silicon alloys
 (high
Fe content-dilute solutions), the presence of silicon carbide is not
detected in contrast to the making of silicon metal. The occurrence of
silicon carbide, especially on the hearth, will require the charging of an
excess of silica for a time in an attempt to clear and eventually convert
it to silicon metal or the charging of iron oxide (generally mill scale)
and a reversion of the process to manufacturing ferrosilicon until the SiC
accretions have been eliminated.

Besides ferrosilicon, three compounds are produced: SiO, CO, and SiC.

Sorry, but  the only chemically carbon bound compounds invoked with
ferrosilicon
chemistry is CO and SiC.

I know it very hard to disabuse your years long assumption about the nature
of the LENR reaction. Such misconceptions are a huge stumbling block to
understanding the true nature of the LENR reaction.

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 9:37 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 02:18:14 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >I don't beleive that the suspension of the CO gas in Fe-Si exists after my
> >search. Please provide a link to your reference.
> [snip]
> It wouldn't be a gas while chemically bound in the solid. It only becomes
> a gas
> when the solid is acted upon by other chemicals, such as would likely be
> the
> case during analysis or use of the Fe-Si.
>
> I don't have a reference for the specific compound. The only references I
> had
> were those already mentioned in a previous post for iron & silicon
> carbonyl, and
> a vague reference to a possible ferro-silicon carbonyl:-
>
> 

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 02:18:14 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>I don't beleive that the suspension of the CO gas in Fe-Si exists after my
>search. Please provide a link to your reference.
[snip]
It wouldn't be a gas while chemically bound in the solid. It only becomes a gas
when the solid is acted upon by other chemicals, such as would likely be the
case during analysis or use of the Fe-Si.

I don't have a reference for the specific compound. The only references I had
were those already mentioned in a previous post for iron & silicon carbonyl, and
a vague reference to a possible ferro-silicon carbonyl:-
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=8vs3IAAJ=PA235=PA235=%22silicon+carbonyl%22=bl=fuTYln3jPN=ACfU3U174UTIgXFSg4R6BqiqDvTbvhufBg=en=X=2ahUKEwjb0tuk5ZTiAhVVi3AKHXvpAl04ChDoATADegQICRAB#v=onepage=%22silicon%20carbonyl%22=false

Nevertheless I still think a chemical explanation is more likely than a
transmutation based explanation.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 03:31:07 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>A ton of CO2 would fill a modest one story ranch house with a footprint of
>1250 sq feet and an average height of 13 feet.
>
>4.5 tons of CO would require  73,125 cubic feet. How could that volume of
>gas be contained  inside 24.5 tons of Fe-Si.
[snip
That would be true of a gas, however not if the CO is chemically bound.
Note that e.g. Fe(CO)5 a liquid under standard conditions. Clearly the volume is
then much smaller.
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

A ton of CO2 would fill a modest one story ranch house with a footprint of
1250 sq feet and an average height of 13 feet.

4.5 tons of CO would require  73,125 cubic feet. How could that volume of
gas be contained  inside 24.5 tons of Fe-Si.

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 3:05 AM Axil Axil  wrote:

> I found the ferrosilicon reaction description.
>
> scan on ferrosilicon for placement in the article.
>
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide
>
> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 2:18 AM Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> I could only find the  Carbon-Iron-Silicon Ternary Alloy Phase Diagram
>> (based on 2008 Shaposhnikov N.G.)
>>
>> *Diagram Type:* ternary, vertical section
>>
>> *Concentration range:* partial composition; Fe97Si3-C0.08Fe96.92Si3
>>
>> *Temperature:* 200.0 - 1100.0 °C
>>
>> *Nature of investigation:* calculated
>>
>> *Remarks:* metastable equilibrium for C-Fe
>>
>>
>> I don't beleive that the suspension of the CO gas in Fe-Si exists after
>> my search. Please provide a link to your reference.
>>
>> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 12:19 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 00:00:13 -0400:
>>> Hi,
>>> [snip]
>>> >Fe-Si is used to produce cast iron as a purifying agent. Fe-Si is used
>>> to
>>> >remove carbon from the cast iron melt. If the Fe-Si were contaminated
>>> with
>>> >high levels of carbon, then the carbon would render the cast iron out of
>>> >spec.The final product produced by  the customer of the smelter would be
>>> >steel.
>>>
>>> The carbon isn't in the form of elemental carbon, it's in the form of CO.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>>
>>> local asymmetry = temporary success
>>>
>>>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

I found the ferrosilicon reaction description.

scan on ferrosilicon for placement in the article.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/silicon-monoxide

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 2:18 AM Axil Axil  wrote:

> I could only find the  Carbon-Iron-Silicon Ternary Alloy Phase Diagram
> (based on 2008 Shaposhnikov N.G.)
>
> *Diagram Type:* ternary, vertical section
>
> *Concentration range:* partial composition; Fe97Si3-C0.08Fe96.92Si3
>
> *Temperature:* 200.0 - 1100.0 °C
>
> *Nature of investigation:* calculated
>
> *Remarks:* metastable equilibrium for C-Fe
>
>
> I don't beleive that the suspension of the CO gas in Fe-Si exists after my
> search. Please provide a link to your reference.
>
> On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 12:19 AM  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 00:00:13 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>> >Fe-Si is used to produce cast iron as a purifying agent. Fe-Si is used to
>> >remove carbon from the cast iron melt. If the Fe-Si were contaminated
>> with
>> >high levels of carbon, then the carbon would render the cast iron out of
>> >spec.The final product produced by  the customer of the smelter would be
>> >steel.
>>
>> The carbon isn't in the form of elemental carbon, it's in the form of CO.
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> local asymmetry = temporary success
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

I could only find the  Carbon-Iron-Silicon Ternary Alloy Phase Diagram
(based on 2008 Shaposhnikov N.G.)

*Diagram Type:* ternary, vertical section

*Concentration range:* partial composition; Fe97Si3-C0.08Fe96.92Si3

*Temperature:* 200.0 - 1100.0 °C

*Nature of investigation:* calculated

*Remarks:* metastable equilibrium for C-Fe


I don't beleive that the suspension of the CO gas in Fe-Si exists after my
search. Please provide a link to your reference.

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 12:19 AM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 00:00:13 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >Fe-Si is used to produce cast iron as a purifying agent. Fe-Si is used to
> >remove carbon from the cast iron melt. If the Fe-Si were contaminated with
> >high levels of carbon, then the carbon would render the cast iron out of
> >spec.The final product produced by  the customer of the smelter would be
> >steel.
>
> The carbon isn't in the form of elemental carbon, it's in the form of CO.
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sat, 11 May 2019 00:00:13 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Fe-Si is used to produce cast iron as a purifying agent. Fe-Si is used to
>remove carbon from the cast iron melt. If the Fe-Si were contaminated with
>high levels of carbon, then the carbon would render the cast iron out of
>spec.The final product produced by  the customer of the smelter would be
>steel.

The carbon isn't in the form of elemental carbon, it's in the form of CO.
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

Fe-Si is used to produce cast iron as a purifying agent. Fe-Si is used to
remove carbon from the cast iron melt. If the Fe-Si were contaminated with
high levels of carbon, then the carbon would render the cast iron out of
spec.The final product produced by  the customer of the smelter would be
steel.

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:33 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 22:17:07 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >The smelter is selling the output material by weight. If there was a huge
> >weight reduction of 25% over time due to the escape of CO from the output
> >material when that material was in inventory, then this weight reduction
> >would surely show up in the accounting records of the company.
>
> If it's chemically bound, then it probably won't escape over time, but
> rather at
> the time of use. Granted the customer would likely find that they were
> paying a
> bit too  much, but such losses are usually attributed to simple things like
> spillage. Besides, the anomalous material was only produced for a
> relatively
> short period, and would likely have been distributed and used along with
> other
> unaffected material at both ends of the supply chain. In short the anomaly
> is
> not likely to have been noticed, were it not for the weighing during
> production.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 22:17:07 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>The smelter is selling the output material by weight. If there was a huge
>weight reduction of 25% over time due to the escape of CO from the output
>material when that material was in inventory, then this weight reduction
>would surely show up in the accounting records of the company.

If it's chemically bound, then it probably won't escape over time, but rather at
the time of use. Granted the customer would likely find that they were paying a
bit too  much, but such losses are usually attributed to simple things like
spillage. Besides, the anomalous material was only produced for a relatively
short period, and would likely have been distributed and used along with other
unaffected material at both ends of the supply chain. In short the anomaly is
not likely to have been noticed, were it not for the weighing during production.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

The smelter is selling the output material by weight. If there was a huge
weight reduction of 25% over time due to the escape of CO from the output
material when that material was in inventory, then this weight reduction
would surely show up in the accounting records of the company.

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:05 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 21:43:37 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >But chemical analysis of the output materiel  showed that the CO was* not
> *
> >chemically
> >bound to at least one of those elements.
>
> Oh really, where does it say this? Note that this statement is NOT the same
> thing as saying that Fe & Si were present in the correct proportions.
>
> >In addition, the amount of this CO
> >contamination would need to be 4.25 ton/day.
>
> Yes.
>
> > That is 25% of the total
> >output product.
>
> Correct.
>
> >That amount of contamination is not possible to miss in a
> >commercial operation selling to many customers.
>
>
> It might be if they all use the same industry standard testing
> methodology, and
> that method results in the early release of the CO, which is an odorless
> invisible gas.
>
> >
> >It is more likely that your assumptions about how quantum mechanics
> >operates in LENR is not well founded.
>
> Possible, though I don't think it's more likely.
> [snip]
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 21:43:37 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>But chemical analysis of the output materiel  showed that the CO was* not *
>chemically
>bound to at least one of those elements. 

Oh really, where does it say this? Note that this statement is NOT the same
thing as saying that Fe & Si were present in the correct proportions.

>In addition, the amount of this CO
>contamination would need to be 4.25 ton/day.

Yes.

> That is 25% of the total
>output product. 

Correct.

>That amount of contamination is not possible to miss in a
>commercial operation selling to many customers.


It might be if they all use the same industry standard testing methodology, and
that method results in the early release of the CO, which is an odorless
invisible gas.

>
>It is more likely that your assumptions about how quantum mechanics
>operates in LENR is not well founded.

Possible, though I don't think it's more likely.
[snip]
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

But chemical analysis of the output materiel  showed that the CO was* not *
chemically
bound to at least one of those elements. In addition, the amount of this CO
contamination would need to be 4.25 ton/day. That is 25% of the total
output product. That amount of contamination is not possible to miss in a
commercial operation selling to many customers.

It is more likely that your assumptions about how quantum mechanics
operates in LENR is not well founded.

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:17 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 19:55:16 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >The smelting charging function is computer automated and it must have been
> >checked many times when the anomaly in the amount of output produce was
> >first recognized.
> >
> >"The screened raw materials were taken using a conveyer system to the
> third
> >floor of the furnace and stored in
> >separate over head bunkers. Each of the three raw materials were weighed
> >according to *a computerized batching system*
> >and transferred into charging buckets running on monorails in the second
> >floor. Charging buckets then discharged the
> >premixed raw materials into the furnace every 10–15 min through chutes.
> >Shift-wise consumption of all raw materials
> >was totalized to obtain daily (24 h) consumption data."
>
> ...but there was nothing wrong with the input. The problem is with the
> output.
> Note also that the electric power used matches the input materials, which
> is a
> good indication that the input is correct.
>
> The most likely explanation is that the weight of the output increased
> because
> something extra was in it. The author made the assumption that CO had
> transmuted
> to Fe & Si, rather than making the simpler assumption that the CO was
> chemically
> bound to at least one of those elements.
> [snip]
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 19:55:16 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>The smelting charging function is computer automated and it must have been
>checked many times when the anomaly in the amount of output produce was
>first recognized.
>
>"The screened raw materials were taken using a conveyer system to the third
>floor of the furnace and stored in
>separate over head bunkers. Each of the three raw materials were weighed
>according to *a computerized batching system*
>and transferred into charging buckets running on monorails in the second
>floor. Charging buckets then discharged the
>premixed raw materials into the furnace every 10–15 min through chutes.
>Shift-wise consumption of all raw materials
>was totalized to obtain daily (24 h) consumption data."

...but there was nothing wrong with the input. The problem is with the output.
Note also that the electric power used matches the input materials, which is a
good indication that the input is correct.

The most likely explanation is that the weight of the output increased because
something extra was in it. The author made the assumption that CO had transmuted
to Fe & Si, rather than making the simpler assumption that the CO was chemically
bound to at least one of those elements.
[snip]
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

The smelting charging function is computer automated and it must have been
checked many times when the anomaly in the amount of output produce was
first recognized.

"The screened raw materials were taken using a conveyer system to the third
floor of the furnace and stored in
separate over head bunkers. Each of the three raw materials were weighed
according to *a computerized batching system*
and transferred into charging buckets running on monorails in the second
floor. Charging buckets then discharged the
premixed raw materials into the furnace every 10–15 min through chutes.
Shift-wise consumption of all raw materials
was totalized to obtain daily (24 h) consumption data."

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 7:47 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 18:00:18 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >The net increase in silicon from the input feed is 18%, The net increase
> in
> >iron form the input feed is 28.4%. These increases in the output product
> >are so large that such increases  cannot be mistaken for  CO being
> >chemically bound as a trace contaminant  either on a short term or long
> >term basis.
>
> There was probably no increase in either Fe or Si. These are simply
> assumptions
> that the author made based on the probably false assumption that
> transmutation
> was taking place.
>
> >
> >Face it.
>
> You face it. While LENR and transmutation may well be real, I seriously
> doubt
> that this is an example thereof, particularly given that a very reasonable
> alternative explanation is available.
>
>
> >You are fighting against a long term assumption about the way the
> >LENR reaction and transmutation actually works.
>
> Not at all. I'm willing to accept that transmutation may have occurred,
> but I
> think that in this case, it's highly unlikely. You simply picked a poor
> example.
>
> >LENR is a pure quantum
> >mechanical process involving superposition of particles and radiation as
> >well as non-locality of matter and energy. When particles and radiation
> are
> >in the state of superposition, they travel unobserved and without impact
> on
> >their environment to a field very  from their place of origin while the
> >LENR reaction is active..
>
> This is pure fantasy.
>
>
> >This quantum mechanical nature of the LENR
> >reaction may be why few LENR experiments show excess heat and/or
> radiation.
> >Experimenters expect to see immediate results, but positive results might
> >only be observable until the LENR reaction terminates. Such is the nature
> >of quantum mechanics.
>
> Wrong. Contrary to popular opinion, cats are not both dead and alive at
> the same
> time. They are either one or the other. The only uncertainty is in the
> mind of
> the observer, not in reality. Note also that quantum equations reflect the
> current knowledge of the experimenter, which naturally changes when a
> measurement is done, hence the "collapse" of the wave function is a
> consequence
> of the experimenter having to use a modified equation due to their change
> in
> knowledge as a consequence of having made an observation.
> There is no magic involved just a complete and utter anthropocentric
> misinterpretation of what's happening. Scientists far too certain of their
> own
> importance.
>
> [snip]
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 18:00:18 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>The net increase in silicon from the input feed is 18%, The net increase in
>iron form the input feed is 28.4%. These increases in the output product
>are so large that such increases  cannot be mistaken for  CO being
>chemically bound as a trace contaminant  either on a short term or long
>term basis.

There was probably no increase in either Fe or Si. These are simply assumptions
that the author made based on the probably false assumption that transmutation
was taking place.

>
>Face it. 

You face it. While LENR and transmutation may well be real, I seriously doubt
that this is an example thereof, particularly given that a very reasonable
alternative explanation is available.


>You are fighting against a long term assumption about the way the
>LENR reaction and transmutation actually works. 

Not at all. I'm willing to accept that transmutation may have occurred, but I
think that in this case, it's highly unlikely. You simply picked a poor example.

>LENR is a pure quantum
>mechanical process involving superposition of particles and radiation as
>well as non-locality of matter and energy. When particles and radiation are
>in the state of superposition, they travel unobserved and without impact on
>their environment to a field very  from their place of origin while the
>LENR reaction is active.. 

This is pure fantasy.


>This quantum mechanical nature of the LENR
>reaction may be why few LENR experiments show excess heat and/or radiation.
>Experimenters expect to see immediate results, but positive results might
>only be observable until the LENR reaction terminates. Such is the nature
>of quantum mechanics.

Wrong. Contrary to popular opinion, cats are not both dead and alive at the same
time. They are either one or the other. The only uncertainty is in the mind of
the observer, not in reality. Note also that quantum equations reflect the
current knowledge of the experimenter, which naturally changes when a
measurement is done, hence the "collapse" of the wave function is a consequence
of the experimenter having to use a modified equation due to their change in
knowledge as a consequence of having made an observation.
There is no magic involved just a complete and utter anthropocentric
misinterpretation of what's happening. Scientists far too certain of their own
importance.

[snip]
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

The net increase in silicon from the input feed is 18%, The net increase in
iron form the input feed is 28.4%. These increases in the output product
are so large that such increases  cannot be mistaken for  CO being
chemically bound as a trace contaminant  either on a short term or long
term basis.

Face it. You are fighting against a long term assumption about the way the
LENR reaction and transmutation actually works. LENR is a pure quantum
mechanical process involving superposition of particles and radiation as
well as non-locality of matter and energy. When particles and radiation are
in the state of superposition, they travel unobserved and without impact on
their environment to a field very  from their place of origin while the
LENR reaction is active.. This quantum mechanical nature of the LENR
reaction may be why few LENR experiments show excess heat and/or radiation.
Experimenters expect to see immediate results, but positive results might
only be observable until the LENR reaction terminates. Such is the nature
of quantum mechanics.

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 5:03 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 02:20:24 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >The CO that was not transmuted to Si and Fe is burned as CO2 and vented
> >then scrubbed. Neither C nor O combined chemically with Fe–Si as per
> >chemical analysis. But carbon was thought to transmute to Si and Fe as per
> >Carbon Arc LENR experiments [5–8] in which anomalous generation of Si and
> >Fe was observed..
>
> Indeed:- "Neither C nor O combined chemically with Fe–Si as per chemical
> analysis." However C & O combined as a molecule of CO, may well have been
> included and later escaped as a gas in the early stages of analysis.
>
> Note that the author would not be able to tell whether CO was chemically
> bound
> or a nuclear reaction had taken place to convert it into Fe-Si, other than
> the
> fact that there was no crater, and thousands in the neighborhood didn't
> die from
> radiation poisoning.
>
> >
> >Using the estimated energy release values of 17.13 MeV/atom of Si or 49.58
> >MeV per atom of Fe given in
> >Appendix B, for the postulated nuclear transmutation reactions, it can be
> >shown that corresponding to 4.25 ton of metal
> >transmutation, the power generated should have been the equivalent of the
> >total thermal power generated by hundreds
> >of 1000MWe nuclear power stations.
>
> which clearly didn't happen. This pretty much rules out a nuclear
> reaction,
> with the possible, if highly unlikely, option that all energy release was
> in the
> form of virtually undetectable neutrino anti-neutrino pairs.
>
> Note that in order for endothermic reactions to have completely
> compensated for
> exothermic reactions, numerous lighter elements would need to have been
> produced
> as well, some of which would undoubtedly have contaminated the end
> product, and
> have been detected during analysis.
> >
> >Appendix B contains the expected excess energy gain from nuclear binding
> >energy released in the transmutation process.
> >
> >This situation goes to show that transmutation  produced by the LENR
> >reaction is not a major source of excess heat,
>
> Actually it doesn't. All it shows is that the author failed to consider all
> options.
>
> >
> >Richard P. *Feynman:* It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it
> >doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with *experiment*,
> >it's wrong.
>
>
> Indeed.
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 May 2019 02:20:24 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>The CO that was not transmuted to Si and Fe is burned as CO2 and vented
>then scrubbed. Neither C nor O combined chemically with Fe–Si as per
>chemical analysis. But carbon was thought to transmute to Si and Fe as per
>Carbon Arc LENR experiments [5–8] in which anomalous generation of Si and
>Fe was observed..

Indeed:- "Neither C nor O combined chemically with Fe–Si as per chemical
analysis." However C & O combined as a molecule of CO, may well have been
included and later escaped as a gas in the early stages of analysis.

Note that the author would not be able to tell whether CO was chemically bound
or a nuclear reaction had taken place to convert it into Fe-Si, other than the
fact that there was no crater, and thousands in the neighborhood didn't die from
radiation poisoning.

>
>Using the estimated energy release values of 17.13 MeV/atom of Si or 49.58
>MeV per atom of Fe given in
>Appendix B, for the postulated nuclear transmutation reactions, it can be
>shown that corresponding to 4.25 ton of metal
>transmutation, the power generated should have been the equivalent of the
>total thermal power generated by hundreds
>of 1000MWe nuclear power stations.

which clearly didn't happen. This pretty much rules out a nuclear reaction,
with the possible, if highly unlikely, option that all energy release was in the
form of virtually undetectable neutrino anti-neutrino pairs.

Note that in order for endothermic reactions to have completely compensated for
exothermic reactions, numerous lighter elements would need to have been produced
as well, some of which would undoubtedly have contaminated the end product, and
have been detected during analysis.
>
>Appendix B contains the expected excess energy gain from nuclear binding
>energy released in the transmutation process.
>
>This situation goes to show that transmutation  produced by the LENR
>reaction is not a major source of excess heat,

Actually it doesn't. All it shows is that the author failed to consider all
options.

>
>Richard P. *Feynman:* It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it
>doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with *experiment*,
>it's wrong.


Indeed.
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

"The whole
process is slagless and the only product is molten Fe–Si alloy drained from
the bottom and carbon monoxide (CO)
effluent gas which burns at the top of the furnace, combining with the
atmospheric oxygen to become CO2 which is
released through a stack after scrubbing as per applicable environment
regulations."

The CO that was not transmuted to Si and Fe is burned as CO2 and vented
then scrubbed. Neither C nor O combined chemically with Fe–Si as per
chemical analysis. But carbon was thought to transmute to Si and Fe as per
Carbon Arc LENR experiments [5–8] in which anomalous generation of Si and
Fe was observed..

Using the estimated energy release values of 17.13 MeV/atom of Si or 49.58
MeV per atom of Fe given in
Appendix B, for the postulated nuclear transmutation reactions, it can be
shown that corresponding to 4.25 ton of metal
transmutation, the power generated should have been the equivalent of the
total thermal power generated by hundreds
of 1000MWe nuclear power stations.

Appendix B contains the expected excess energy gain from nuclear binding
energy released in the transmutation process.

This situation goes to show that transmutation  produced by the LENR
reaction is not a major source of excess heat,

Richard P. *Feynman:* It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it
doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with *experiment*,
it's wrong.


On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:36 AM  wrote:

> In reply to  Jürg Wyttenbach's message of Thu, 9 May 2019 12:14:15 +0200:
> Hi,
> [snip]
>
> Note that I said "physical inclusion of CO *molecules*". I meant that
> the
> actual molecules were included chemically, not through a nuclear process.
> A chemical reaction would explain all the facts, without a crater.
>
> >Hi
> >
> >Please stop to discuss this nonsensical issue.
> >The original claim would indicate that they fired a Giga x Giga ton bomb
> >in their furnace...
> >
> >As we have no reports about a crater the conclusion is clear.
> >
> >Of course 12C + 16O can happen but with no notable mass increase!! Else
> >: > Bomb...
> >
> >Jürg
> >
> >
> >
> >Am 09.05.19 um 00:59 schrieb mix...@bigpond.com:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>
> >> Re:-
> >>
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf
> >>
> >> The mass of a CO molecule = 12+16= 28 which matches the mass of Si28.
> >> The mass of 2 CO molecules = 56 which matches that of Fe56.
> >>
> >> Physical inclusion of CO molecules within the Fe-Si matrix could thus
> explain
> >> the anomalous weight increase, as well as the reduction in CO
> combustion above
> >> the furnace, and also the lack of nuclear reaction energy (due to lack
> of
> >> nuclear reactions).
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Robin van Spaandonk
> >>
> >> local asymmetry = temporary success
> >>
> >>
> >>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Jürg Wyttenbach's message of Thu, 9 May 2019 12:14:15 +0200:
Hi,
[snip]

Note that I said "physical inclusion of CO *molecules*". I meant that the
actual molecules were included chemically, not through a nuclear process.
A chemical reaction would explain all the facts, without a crater.

>Hi
>
>Please stop to discuss this nonsensical issue.
>The original claim would indicate that they fired a Giga x Giga ton bomb 
>in their furnace...
>
>As we have no reports about a crater the conclusion is clear.
>
>Of course 12C + 16O can happen but with no notable mass increase!! Else 
>: > Bomb...
>
>Jürg
>
>
>
>Am 09.05.19 um 00:59 schrieb mix...@bigpond.com:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> Re:-
>> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf
>>
>> The mass of a CO molecule = 12+16= 28 which matches the mass of Si28.
>> The mass of 2 CO molecules = 56 which matches that of Fe56.
>>
>> Physical inclusion of CO molecules within the Fe-Si matrix could thus explain
>> the anomalous weight increase, as well as the reduction in CO combustion 
>> above
>> the furnace, and also the lack of nuclear reaction energy (due to lack of
>> nuclear reactions).
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> local asymmetry = temporary success
>>
>>
>>
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

The lack of any additional excess energy is the point of the article.

Discussion on page 248 titled: 7. Puzzle of the Missing Nuclear Energy

No bomb, no energy, just more iron.

Your assumptions about the details of the LENR reaction are not correct.

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 6:14 AM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Please stop to discuss this nonsensical issue.
> The original claim would indicate that they fired a Giga x Giga ton bomb
> in their furnace...
>
> As we have no reports about a crater the conclusion is clear.
>
> Of course 12C + 16O can happen but with no notable mass increase!! Else
> : > Bomb...
>
> Jürg
>
>
>
> Am 09.05.19 um 00:59 schrieb mix...@bigpond.com:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > Re:-
> >
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf
> >
> > The mass of a CO molecule = 12+16= 28 which matches the mass of Si28.
> > The mass of 2 CO molecules = 56 which matches that of Fe56.
> >
> > Physical inclusion of CO molecules within the Fe-Si matrix could thus
> explain
> > the anomalous weight increase, as well as the reduction in CO combustion
> above
> > the furnace, and also the lack of nuclear reaction energy (due to lack of
> > nuclear reactions).
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Robin van Spaandonk
> >
> > local asymmetry = temporary success
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jürg Wyttenbach
> Bifangstr.22
> 8910 Affoltern a.A.
> 044 760 14 18
> 079 246 36 06
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

>  This is just a repeat of the original paper.

Below the first introductory paper is a more extensive write up beginning
on page 245.

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 6:14 AM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Please stop to discuss this nonsensical issue.
> The original claim would indicate that they fired a Giga x Giga ton bomb
> in their furnace...
>
> As we have no reports about a crater the conclusion is clear.
>
> Of course 12C + 16O can happen but with no notable mass increase!! Else
> : > Bomb...
>
> Jürg
>
>
>
> Am 09.05.19 um 00:59 schrieb mix...@bigpond.com:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > Re:-
> >
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf
> >
> > The mass of a CO molecule = 12+16= 28 which matches the mass of Si28.
> > The mass of 2 CO molecules = 56 which matches that of Fe56.
> >
> > Physical inclusion of CO molecules within the Fe-Si matrix could thus
> explain
> > the anomalous weight increase, as well as the reduction in CO combustion
> above
> > the furnace, and also the lack of nuclear reaction energy (due to lack of
> > nuclear reactions).
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Robin van Spaandonk
> >
> > local asymmetry = temporary success
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jürg Wyttenbach
> Bifangstr.22
> 8910 Affoltern a.A.
> 044 760 14 18
> 079 246 36 06
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Hi

Please stop to discuss this nonsensical issue.
The original claim would indicate that they fired a Giga x Giga ton bomb 
in their furnace...


As we have no reports about a crater the conclusion is clear.

Of course 12C + 16O can happen but with no notable mass increase!! Else 
: > Bomb...


Jürg



Am 09.05.19 um 00:59 schrieb mix...@bigpond.com:

Hi,


Re:-
http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf

The mass of a CO molecule = 12+16= 28 which matches the mass of Si28.
The mass of 2 CO molecules = 56 which matches that of Fe56.

Physical inclusion of CO molecules within the Fe-Si matrix could thus explain
the anomalous weight increase, as well as the reduction in CO combustion above
the furnace, and also the lack of nuclear reaction energy (due to lack of
nuclear reactions).
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success





--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr.22
8910 Affoltern a.A.
044 760 14 18
079 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 9 May 2019 03:41:39 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>What is it exactly that I am supposed to find in this reference?
>
>search on the company name.

This is just a repeat of the original paper.
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 9 May 2019 03:39:46 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>But where does all the extra iron come from?

There is no extra iron. There is an increase in "weight". That increase is due
to included CO.
It simply didn't occur to the author of the paper that the extra weight might be
due to a chemical that could escape during analysis.

>
>On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 3:20 AM  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 9 May 2019 01:27:00 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>> >*Ftpm:*
>> >
>> >
>> >*http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedw.pdf
>> >*
>>
>> What is it exactly that I am supposed to find in this reference?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> local asymmetry = temporary success
>>
>>
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

What is it exactly that I am supposed to find in this reference?

search on the company name.

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 3:20 AM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 9 May 2019 01:27:00 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >*Ftpm:*
> >
> >
> >*http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedw.pdf
> >*
>
> What is it exactly that I am supposed to find in this reference?
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

But where does all the extra iron come from?

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 3:20 AM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 9 May 2019 01:27:00 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >*Ftpm:*
> >
> >
> >*http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedw.pdf
> >*
>
> What is it exactly that I am supposed to find in this reference?
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 9 May 2019 01:27:00 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>*Ftpm:*
>
>
>*http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedw.pdf
>*

What is it exactly that I am supposed to find in this reference?

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 8 May 2019 23:34:12 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>It was evident
>that roughly 20% more metal than could be accounted for from the input feed
>was being produced and consequently we have been
>obliged to come to the conclusion that anomalous quantities of Si (2.8
>ton/day) and Fe (1.45 ton/day) were being synthesized during
>the smelting process."
[snip]
They were not obliged to, it was just the only explanation they could think of.
I have provided an alternative explanation.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Thu, 9 May 2019 01:27:00 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>jumbo bags for export. Each batch of* Fe–Si was individually analyzed
>adopting standard procedures prevalent in this*
>*industry.*
>*Ftpm:*
[snip]
...of course. But that changes nothing. If the CO escaped during the analysis
then all that would be left would be the Fe-Si, which would of course meet
standards.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

More on Silcal Metallurgic Ltd quality control

The screened raw materials were taken using a conveyer system to the third
floor of the furnace and stored in
separate over head bunkers. Each of the three raw materials were weighed
according to a computerized batching system
and transferred into charging buckets running on monorails in the second
floor. Charging buckets then discharged the
premixed raw materials into the furnace every 10–15 min through chutes.
Shift-wise consumption of all raw materials
was totalized to obtain daily (24 h) consumption data.

The molten alloy product was drained through one of the three tap holes at
the bottom of the furnace every 2–2.5 h
into tiltable “teeming ladles” mounted on rail tracks. The teeming ladles
were then emptied into large stationary heat
resistant cast iron trays to a thickness of approximately 50 mm. Next day,
during the day shift the solidified Fe–Si
slabs were manually broken into small pieces, weighed and packed into 40 kg
bags for domestic consumers or in 1 ton
jumbo bags for export. Each batch of* Fe–Si was individually analyzed
adopting standard procedures prevalent in this*
*industry.*

*Ftpm:*


*http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedw.pdf
*

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:58 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 8 May 2019 19:09:40 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >Those mass factors were covered in this analysts as follows:
> >
> >Quartz (33.4 ton), charcoal (with fixed carbon content of 13.2
> >ton) and scrap steel (5.1 ton) while the daily output production of Fe–Si
> >alloy (73.5% Si) was 24.75 ton. From the total weights
> >of Si and Fe in the input feed and assuming 100% recovery of the metals,
> >the daily output alloy production could at best have
> >been only 20.5 ton.
>
> That's assuming that the only thing in the output was Fe-Si. If CO was also
> included then 24.75 is quite reasonable.
>
> (Note that when the output product was chemically analyzed, the CO from the
> sample may well have simply disappeared into the air, as a consequence of
> the
> process used to analyze the sample.)
> Note also that the total input mass = 51.7 tons.
>
> >However to our surprise throughout the 11-week period
> >the total daily Fe–Si alloy (with 73.5% Si) output was
> >consistently 24.75 ton, corresponding to a daily “anomalous” excess metal
> >production of 4.25 ton of Fe–Si alloy.
>
> Consistency would imply a fixed ratio, which in turn seems to imply a
> chemical
> bond with fixed ratios.
>
> See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pentacarbonyl
>
> by which I don't mean to imply that that was the precise chemical
> involved, but
> rather only to show that CO has an affinity for Fe.
>
> Furthermore as evidenced by https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16571066,
> it
> also has an affinity for Si. Therefore I think my suggestion may well be
> reasonable, and furthermore seems to fit the facts a lot better than other
> suggestions so far.
>
> BTW, CO is dangerous for humans to inhale precisely because the CO molecule
> binds with the Fe in hemoglobin, preventing the hemoglobin from binding to
> Oxygen, which in turn results in suffocation.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

There was a rigorous chemical based management of the melting process that
was claimed to preclude any chemical based effects that would produce
increased production of Fe–Si alloy. The key quality control in smelting is
the analysis of the product of the smelting. Usually, samples are taking
after the product is produced and latter shown to the customer to assure
that the product meets quality standards to attest to its purity.

"The only source of
Si entering the smelter furnace was the quartz raw material and that of Fe
was the scrap steel (except for minor additional amounts
of Fe originating from the steel casing of the consumable Söderberg carbon
electrodes). Very careful vigil of the weights of daily
input feed of raw materials and output alloy drained out as also the
electrical energy consumption was maintained. It was evident
that roughly 20% more metal than could be accounted for from the input feed
was being produced and consequently we have been
obliged to come to the conclusion that anomalous quantities of Si (2.8
ton/day) and Fe (1.45 ton/day) were being synthesized during
the smelting process."

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 10:58 PM  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 8 May 2019 19:09:40 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >Those mass factors were covered in this analysts as follows:
> >
> >Quartz (33.4 ton), charcoal (with fixed carbon content of 13.2
> >ton) and scrap steel (5.1 ton) while the daily output production of Fe–Si
> >alloy (73.5% Si) was 24.75 ton. From the total weights
> >of Si and Fe in the input feed and assuming 100% recovery of the metals,
> >the daily output alloy production could at best have
> >been only 20.5 ton.
>
> That's assuming that the only thing in the output was Fe-Si. If CO was also
> included then 24.75 is quite reasonable.
>
> (Note that when the output product was chemically analyzed, the CO from the
> sample may well have simply disappeared into the air, as a consequence of
> the
> process used to analyze the sample.)
> Note also that the total input mass = 51.7 tons.
>
> >However to our surprise throughout the 11-week period
> >the total daily Fe–Si alloy (with 73.5% Si) output was
> >consistently 24.75 ton, corresponding to a daily “anomalous” excess metal
> >production of 4.25 ton of Fe–Si alloy.
>
> Consistency would imply a fixed ratio, which in turn seems to imply a
> chemical
> bond with fixed ratios.
>
> See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pentacarbonyl
>
> by which I don't mean to imply that that was the precise chemical
> involved, but
> rather only to show that CO has an affinity for Fe.
>
> Furthermore as evidenced by https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16571066,
> it
> also has an affinity for Si. Therefore I think my suggestion may well be
> reasonable, and furthermore seems to fit the facts a lot better than other
> suggestions so far.
>
> BTW, CO is dangerous for humans to inhale precisely because the CO molecule
> binds with the Fe in hemoglobin, preventing the hemoglobin from binding to
> Oxygen, which in turn results in suffocation.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Wed, 8 May 2019 19:09:40 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Those mass factors were covered in this analysts as follows:
>
>Quartz (33.4 ton), charcoal (with fixed carbon content of 13.2
>ton) and scrap steel (5.1 ton) while the daily output production of Fe–Si
>alloy (73.5% Si) was 24.75 ton. From the total weights
>of Si and Fe in the input feed and assuming 100% recovery of the metals,
>the daily output alloy production could at best have
>been only 20.5 ton. 

That's assuming that the only thing in the output was Fe-Si. If CO was also
included then 24.75 is quite reasonable.

(Note that when the output product was chemically analyzed, the CO from the
sample may well have simply disappeared into the air, as a consequence of the
process used to analyze the sample.)
Note also that the total input mass = 51.7 tons.

>However to our surprise throughout the 11-week period
>the total daily Fe–Si alloy (with 73.5% Si) output was
>consistently 24.75 ton, corresponding to a daily “anomalous” excess metal
>production of 4.25 ton of Fe–Si alloy.

Consistency would imply a fixed ratio, which in turn seems to imply a chemical
bond with fixed ratios.

See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pentacarbonyl

by which I don't mean to imply that that was the precise chemical involved, but
rather only to show that CO has an affinity for Fe.

Furthermore as evidenced by https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16571066, it
also has an affinity for Si. Therefore I think my suggestion may well be
reasonable, and furthermore seems to fit the facts a lot better than other
suggestions so far.

BTW, CO is dangerous for humans to inhale precisely because the CO molecule
binds with the Fe in hemoglobin, preventing the hemoglobin from binding to
Oxygen, which in turn results in suffocation. 

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

Re: [Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[Axil Axil]

Those mass factors were covered in this analysts as follows:

Quartz (33.4 ton), charcoal (with fixed carbon content of 13.2
ton) and scrap steel (5.1 ton) while the daily output production of Fe–Si
alloy (73.5% Si) was 24.75 ton. From the total weights
of Si and Fe in the input feed and assuming 100% recovery of the metals,
the daily output alloy production could at best have
been only 20.5 ton. However to our surprise throughout the 11-week period
the total daily Fe–Si alloy (with 73.5% Si) output was
consistently 24.75 ton, corresponding to a daily “anomalous” excess metal
production of 4.25 ton of Fe–Si alloy.

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> Re:-
>
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf
>
> The mass of a CO molecule = 12+16= 28 which matches the mass of Si28.
> The mass of 2 CO molecules = 56 which matches that of Fe56.
>
> Physical inclusion of CO molecules within the Fe-Si matrix could thus
> explain
> the anomalous weight increase, as well as the reduction in CO combustion
> above
> the furnace, and also the lack of nuclear reaction energy (due to lack of
> nuclear reactions).
> Regards,
>
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> local asymmetry = temporary success
>
>

[Vo]:Re:LENR transmutation may be subject to quantum mechanical superposition.

[mixent]

Hi,


Re:-
http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/244_JCMNS-Vol24.pdf

The mass of a CO molecule = 12+16= 28 which matches the mass of Si28.
The mass of 2 CO molecules = 56 which matches that of Fe56.

Physical inclusion of CO molecules within the Fe-Si matrix could thus explain
the anomalous weight increase, as well as the reduction in CO combustion above
the furnace, and also the lack of nuclear reaction energy (due to lack of
nuclear reactions).
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success