[WISPA] 3.65 NN License For Sale

[Kevin Melson]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NN-License-LICENSING-FOR-THE-3-65-3-70-GHZ-SPECTRUM/142705978085



Thanks,



Kevin Melson

Eagle One Wireless\PC Station

2007 Hwy 72 E

Corinth, MS 38834

662-287-1722

e...@e1w.com

www.e1w.com

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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/27/16 18:36, Mike Hammett wrote:
> I also have a feeling that there's a non-zero number of people that
> won't give a shit and will run whatever they want whenever they want.


You're right, of course, but I was trying to be optimistic. I do wish 
the FCC would go out and nuke those people.

~Seth
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Mike Hammett]

I also have a feeling that there's a non-zero number of people that won't give 
a shit and will run whatever they want whenever they want. 




- 
Mike Hammett 

Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Seth Mattinen" <se...@rollernet.us> 
To: wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 8:34:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence 

On 12/27/16 16:50, Stuart Pierce wrote: 
> I set forth the point at a get together with the FCC in Gettysburg a few 
> years back that I thought it was a waste of time to register the CPE's. 
> The base station already spews forth the frequency in a certain direction 
> anyway. 
> 
> That's when I realized I thought something else was afoot other than 
> frequency. 


I have a feeling there's going to be a non-zero number of people that 
wished they'd registered their CPE locations. 

~Seth 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/27/16 16:50, Stuart Pierce wrote:
> I set forth the point at a get together with the FCC in Gettysburg a few
> years back that I thought it was a waste of time to register the CPE's.
> The base station already spews forth the frequency in a certain direction
> anyway.
>
> That's when I realized I thought something else was afoot other than
> frequency.


I have a feeling there's going to be a non-zero number of people that 
wished they'd registered their CPE locations.

~Seth
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Stuart Pierce]

I set forth the point at a get together with the FCC in Gettysburg a few
years back that I thought it was a waste of time to register the CPE's.
The base station already spews forth the frequency in a certain direction
anyway.

That's when I realized I thought something else was afoot other than
frequency.

On Tue, December 27, 2016 4:41 pm, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 12/27/16 13:35, Fred Goldstein wrote:
>
>>
>> Since you have the license, you are entitled to put up more devices,
>> just not as Incumbent. So what you might want to do is pull the FCC's ULS
>> records in that area to see what registered devices the existing WISPs
>> have in the area you're looking to go into. It is possible that the
>> WISPs in question didn't all bother to register everything they
>> could have -- the number of registered devices in ULS strikes me as
>> awfully low. Iowa, for instance, shows 60 licensees, some of whom
>> register CPEs, some who don't.
>
>
>
> Or the WISP only registers the base stations, not the customers. How
> does the incumbent protection work in that case? Something like 4 miles out
> from the registered base station instead of the furthest CPE (since the
> CPEs were never registered)?
>
>
> ~Seth
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>
>


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Fred Goldstein]

On 12/27/2016 4:41 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 12/27/16 13:35, Fred Goldstein wrote:

Since you have the license, you are entitled to put up more devices,
just not as Incumbent. So what you might want to do is pull the FCC's
ULS records in that area to see what registered devices the existing
WISPs have in the area you're looking to go into. It is possible that
the WISPs in question didn't all bother to register everything they
could have -- the number of registered devices in ULS strikes me as
awfully low. Iowa, for instance, shows 60 licensees, some of whom
register CPEs, some who don't.



Or the WISP only registers the base stations, not the customers. How
does the incumbent protection work in that case? Something like 4 miles
out from the registered base station instead of the furthest CPE (since
the CPEs were never registered)?



Yes. The registered base station gets a protection zone that goes out 
about 5.3 km where there is only unregistered CPE, but if there's a 
registered CPE the protection zone in that direction can go as far as 
the CPE:


"Specifically, under this approach, the Grandfathered Wireless 
Protection Zone around each eligible registered base station is defined 
by: (1) for sectors encompassing unregistered
CPE, a 5.3 km radius sector from each registered base station based on 
the azimuth and beam width registered for that base station; and (2) for 
sectors encompassing registered CPE, a sector centered on each base 
station with the registered azimuth and beam width covering all 
registered subscriber stations within that sector."


Note however that the registered CPE is still limited to 18 km, or the 
farthest-out registered CPE in that sector, whichever is closer.


The diagram illustrating their August press release shows
-Sector with unregistered CPE equipment receives protection only to 5.3 
km radius
-Sector without any registered or unregistered CPE equipment does not 
receive grandfathered protection
-Sectors for protection of registered CPE equipment – angle determined 
by azimuth and beam width of registered base station, radius determined 
by location of furthest registered CPE, (normally not more than 18 km)


There are two of the latter, with different protection radii based on 
where their CPEs are.


BTW this is all in a Public Notice that is not a Rule per se.

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-16-946A1_Rcd.pdf

"D'oh, I should have registered that CPE!" :-)


--
 Fred R. Goldstein  k1iofred "at" interisle.net
 Interisle Consulting Group
 +1 617 795 2701

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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Seth Mattinen]

On 12/27/16 13:35, Fred Goldstein wrote:
>
> Since you have the license, you are entitled to put up more devices,
> just not as Incumbent. So what you might want to do is pull the FCC's
> ULS records in that area to see what registered devices the existing
> WISPs have in the area you're looking to go into. It is possible that
> the WISPs in question didn't all bother to register everything they
> could have -- the number of registered devices in ULS strikes me as
> awfully low. Iowa, for instance, shows 60 licensees, some of whom
> register CPEs, some who don't.



Or the WISP only registers the base stations, not the customers. How 
does the incumbent protection work in that case? Something like 4 miles 
out from the registered base station instead of the furthest CPE (since 
the CPEs were never registered)?

~Seth
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Fred Goldstein]

On 12/27/2016 4:13 PM, Sam Morris wrote:

On 12/27/2016 2:34 PM, Johnathan Penberthy wrote:

I believe it is really difficult to get a 3.65 Ghz license now. Though 3.65 Ghz 
is basically treated as 5 Ghz, it can share the same space as another provider, 
though every link is registered with the FCC.

We do have a nationwide 3.65 license. However we are only using it
currently in one very small area in Iowa. There are other areas into
which we're looking to put up service, but I know for a fact that in
some of them there are existing WISPs that are using 3.65. I'm
researching this for my boss to let him know that there may (or may not)
be issues if we try to go into an area that already has a licensed 3.65
WISP using these frequencies there.

I should've done a better job with the background on my original post.


Since you have the license, you are entitled to put up more devices, 
just not as Incumbent. So what you might want to do is pull the FCC's 
ULS records in that area to see what registered devices the existing 
WISPs have in the area you're looking to go into. It is possible that 
the WISPs in question didn't all bother to register everything they 
could have -- the number of registered devices in ULS strikes me as 
awfully low. Iowa, for instance, shows 60 licensees, some of whom 
register CPEs, some who don't.





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Sam Morris
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:26 PM
To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

I have a question to which I suspect I know the answer but wanted to defer to 
you smart guys.

Let's say I'm opening up a new WISP and want to go into an area where there is 
an existing WISP already there. And let's say I want to use
3.65 GHz (non-LTE if that matters) gear in that area, but that the existing 
WISP already has 3.65 GHz gear up in the same area, and has it licensed 
properly with the FCC.

I'm guessing that the existing WISP wins, and that I wouldn't be allowed to 
come in and put my gear up, potentially interfering with his existing operation.

Is that correct or is it not as simple as this?




--
 Fred R. Goldstein  k1iofred "at" interisle.net
 Interisle Consulting Group
 +1 617 795 2701

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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Sam Morris]

On 12/27/2016 2:34 PM, Johnathan Penberthy wrote:
> I believe it is really difficult to get a 3.65 Ghz license now. Though 3.65 
> Ghz is basically treated as 5 Ghz, it can share the same space as another 
> provider, though every link is registered with the FCC.

We do have a nationwide 3.65 license. However we are only using it 
currently in one very small area in Iowa. There are other areas into 
which we're looking to put up service, but I know for a fact that in 
some of them there are existing WISPs that are using 3.65. I'm 
researching this for my boss to let him know that there may (or may not) 
be issues if we try to go into an area that already has a licensed 3.65 
WISP using these frequencies there.

I should've done a better job with the background on my original post.


>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Sam Morris
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:26 PM
> To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org>
> Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence
>
> I have a question to which I suspect I know the answer but wanted to defer to 
> you smart guys.
>
> Let's say I'm opening up a new WISP and want to go into an area where there 
> is an existing WISP already there. And let's say I want to use
> 3.65 GHz (non-LTE if that matters) gear in that area, but that the existing 
> WISP already has 3.65 GHz gear up in the same area, and has it licensed 
> properly with the FCC.
>
> I'm guessing that the existing WISP wins, and that I wouldn't be allowed to 
> come in and put my gear up, potentially interfering with his existing 
> operation.
>
> Is that correct or is it not as simple as this?
>
> Thanks
> Sam
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Fred Goldstein]

On 12/27/2016 3:25 PM, Sam Morris wrote:

I have a question to which I suspect I know the answer but wanted to
defer to you smart guys.

Let's say I'm opening up a new WISP and want to go into an area where
there is an existing WISP already there. And let's say I want to use
3.65 GHz (non-LTE if that matters) gear in that area, but that the
existing WISP already has 3.65 GHz gear up in the same area, and has it
licensed properly with the FCC.

I'm guessing that the existing WISP wins, and that I wouldn't be allowed
to come in and put my gear up, potentially interfering with his existing
operation.

Is that correct or is it not as simple as this?



It's a little more complex. First off, you do need a license for now, 
and those aren't being given out, though there are uh strong rumors that 
they can be purchased from existing holders... they're non-exclusive, 
non-territorial licenses. Note that this is "for now".


If someone has registered devices with the FCC before April, 2015, those 
devices are  classified as Incumbent and are protected against 
interference except from other Incumbents. So a new device from a 
licensee who didn't register it on time can't interfere with it. But 
they can operate on a non-interfering basis -- the protected 
registration is to a specific device on a specific frequency at a 
specific location. If the Incumbent is using gear that is only approved 
for the less-restrictive 3650-3675 segment, then the 3675-3700 segment 
is vacant, provided the gear you use is approved for use up there.


If two licensees operate in the same area and want to put up more radios 
and neither has priority over the other (by being registered on time), 
then the "sandbox clause" takes over: They are not protected against 
interference, but they are expected to cooperate with each other to try 
to minimize harm. This is different from 5 GHz or other unlicensed 
frequencies, where interference has to be essentially malicious (like 
the hotel Wi-Fi jammer) to get the FCC's attention.


Existing 3650 (WBS) licenses can be renewed, but renewals all end in 
2020; only 10-year licenses issued in a 2010-2013 window will last 
longer (until their 10 years is up). By then, CBRS rules will fully take 
over.


Under CBRS rules, devices operate under one of three priorities: 
Incumbent, Priority Access License (PAL), or General Authorized Access 
(GAA). Incumbent includes those unexpired, registered WBS devices, as 
well as federal and satellite users. PAL will be the auctioned right to 
claim priority on a channel within a census tract, though the specific 
channel is not specified in the license. GAA is "licensed by rule", 
which is sort of unlicensed but has priority over actual unlicensed 
stuff, and a higher power limit.


CBRS devices, called CBSDs, operate on a channel for which a Spectrum 
Authorization System (SAS) authorizes them. The 3550-3650 range has 10 
10-MHz channels of which up to 7 can be claimed as PAL in a given 
location, while 3650-3700 is Incumbents (including WBS) /and/ GAA. GAA 
still has to protect /unregistered/ user devices connected to registered 
access points, but not nearly as far out as registered user devices get 
protection. The SAS is supposed to iron this out in real time when the 
CBSD requests a Grant to transmit.


So once CBSDs are available and the band is really open, then you can 
just buy gear, sign it up with a SAS, and operate GAA. This should 
happen within a year. I'm one of WISPA's reps on the WinnForum Spectrum 
Sharing Committee, which is writing the rules and protocols for the SAS 
operations, and the process is moving reasonably quickly. Until then, 
you need to figure out if you can operate without interfering with an 
existing WBS user, and then you may be able to uh find a WBS license to 
operate under. Bear in mind that some WBS devices will qualify to become 
CBSDs, but others will not. The LTE stuff and some of the other 
high-grade stuff probably will. Other stuff (adapted Wi-Fi gear comes to 
mind) may have to sign off when the WBS licenses expire.


Sorry to be a bit long-winded but it's a bit complicated, and I'm sure I 
left out some details that will matter...



--
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 Interisle Consulting Group
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Josh Luthman]

I don't believe you can get one from the FCC currently.  You can buy one
that's for sale privately.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Dec 27, 2016 3:34 PM, "Johnathan Penberthy" <j...@neighborhoodnetworks.co>
wrote:

> I believe it is really difficult to get a 3.65 Ghz license now. Though
> 3.65 Ghz is basically treated as 5 Ghz, it can share the same space as
> another provider, though every link is registered with the FCC.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Sam Morris
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:26 PM
> To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org>
> Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence
>
> I have a question to which I suspect I know the answer but wanted to defer
> to you smart guys.
>
> Let's say I'm opening up a new WISP and want to go into an area where
> there is an existing WISP already there. And let's say I want to use
> 3.65 GHz (non-LTE if that matters) gear in that area, but that the
> existing WISP already has 3.65 GHz gear up in the same area, and has it
> licensed properly with the FCC.
>
> I'm guessing that the existing WISP wins, and that I wouldn't be allowed
> to come in and put my gear up, potentially interfering with his existing
> operation.
>
> Is that correct or is it not as simple as this?
>
> Thanks
> Sam
> ___
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Johnathan Penberthy]

I believe it is really difficult to get a 3.65 Ghz license now. Though 3.65 Ghz 
is basically treated as 5 Ghz, it can share the same space as another provider, 
though every link is registered with the FCC.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Sam Morris
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:26 PM
To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

I have a question to which I suspect I know the answer but wanted to defer to 
you smart guys.

Let's say I'm opening up a new WISP and want to go into an area where there is 
an existing WISP already there. And let's say I want to use
3.65 GHz (non-LTE if that matters) gear in that area, but that the existing 
WISP already has 3.65 GHz gear up in the same area, and has it licensed 
properly with the FCC.

I'm guessing that the existing WISP wins, and that I wouldn't be allowed to 
come in and put my gear up, potentially interfering with his existing operation.

Is that correct or is it not as simple as this?

Thanks
Sam
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[WISPA] 3.65 Precedence

[Sam Morris]

I have a question to which I suspect I know the answer but wanted to 
defer to you smart guys.

Let's say I'm opening up a new WISP and want to go into an area where 
there is an existing WISP already there. And let's say I want to use 
3.65 GHz (non-LTE if that matters) gear in that area, but that the 
existing WISP already has 3.65 GHz gear up in the same area, and has it 
licensed properly with the FCC.

I'm guessing that the existing WISP wins, and that I wouldn't be allowed 
to come in and put my gear up, potentially interfering with his existing 
operation.

Is that correct or is it not as simple as this?

Thanks
Sam
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Mark Radabaugh]

Faisal has good advice here.   The licensed gear is marginally more expensive 
but just works.   No worries about interference and you free up the unlicensed 
spectrum for what makes you $$$ - point to multipoint.  You (probably) can't 
buy licensed spectrum for PtMP, but you can for point to point.

The way the CBRS rules are working out I'm not convinced 3550-3700 is going to 
be a band you want to use for PTP due to the complexity of the SAS and the 
potential of required frequency changes.

Mark 

> On Nov 18, 2016, at 11:59 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net> wrote:
> 
> Want some serious advice ? 
> 
> Do yourself a favor, and try to break the addiction of using un-licened freq 
> for backhaul... 
> hold your self in, and explore the world of licensed links... even if you can 
> only afford to by equipment on the used market space.. 
> 
> Believe me, you will sleep better, and focus on the side of your business 
> where it counts 
> The outlay has a tremendous ROI.
> 
> Rough numbers...
> 
> Coordination cost   sub $700
> FCC license cost   $500 / site
> Hardware  (realistic / reasonable spend)  $3000  to $6000 for a complete 
> link
> and this will give you roughly 300meg duplex (more or less depending on 
> equipment, freq and channel etc etc).
> 
> :)
> 
> Best of luck, and my apologies for not answering your direct question.
> 
> 
> Regards.
> 
> 
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
> 
> From: "Chadwick Wachs" <c...@auwireless.net>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 11:09:41 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License
> We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing license 
> holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a handful of backhauls 
> to get off of crowded 5GHz space.  However, I'm not sure if this is a smart 
> move (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted some insight from those who have much 
> more knowledge on where the FCC is going with this and what the likely value 
> of a 3.65 license will be both today and next year (?) when the licenses are 
> potentially opened back up.
> It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling between $500 
> and $2000.  It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet spot for the 
> few that have sold around here. 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Sean Heskett]

+ 1 bazillion

use unlicensed and licensed lite (aka 3.65) for PMP and part 101 licensed
for PTP backhaul.  if it's short distances then use 24ghz which is
unlicensed PTP spectrum.

2 cents

-sean



On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 9:59 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <fai...@snappytelecom.net>
wrote:

> Want some serious advice ?
>
> Do yourself a favor, and try to break the addiction of using un-licened
> freq for backhaul...
> hold your self in, and explore the world of licensed links... even if you
> can only afford to by equipment on the used market space..
>
> Believe me, you will sleep better, and focus on the side of your business
> where it counts
> The outlay has a tremendous ROI.
>
> Rough numbers...
>
> Coordination cost   sub $700
> FCC license cost   $500 / site
> Hardware  (realistic / reasonable spend)  $3000  to $6000 for a
> complete link
> and this will give you roughly 300meg duplex (more or less depending on
> equipment, freq and channel etc etc).
>
> :)
>
> Best of luck, and my apologies for not answering your direct question.
>
>
> Regards.
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Chadwick Wachs" <c...@auwireless.net>
> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> *Sent: *Friday, November 18, 2016 11:09:41 AM
> *Subject: *[WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License
>
> We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing license
> holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a handful of backhauls
> to get off of crowded 5GHz space.  However, I'm not sure if this is a smart
> move (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted some insight from those who have
> much more knowledge on where the FCC is going with this and what the likely
> value of a 3.65 license will be both today and next year (?) when the
> licenses are potentially opened back up.
> It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling between
> $500 and $2000.  It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet spot for
> the few that have sold around here.
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Want some serious advice ? 

Do yourself a favor, and try to break the addiction of using un-licened freq 
for backhaul... 
hold your self in, and explore the world of licensed links... even if you can 
only afford to by equipment on the used market space.. 

Believe me, you will sleep better, and focus on the side of your business where 
it counts 
The outlay has a tremendous ROI. 

Rough numbers... 

Coordination cost sub $700 
FCC license cost $500 / site 
Hardware (realistic / reasonable spend) $3000 to $6000 for a complete link 
and this will give you roughly 300meg duplex (more or less depending on 
equipment, freq and channel etc etc). 

:) 

Best of luck, and my apologies for not answering your direct question. 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chadwick Wachs" <c...@auwireless.net>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 11:09:41 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

> We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing license
> holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a handful of backhauls to
> get off of crowded 5GHz space. However, I'm not sure if this is a smart move
> (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted some insight from those who have much more
> knowledge on where the FCC is going with this and what the likely value of a
> 3.65 license will be both today and next year (?) when the licenses are
> potentially opened back up.
> It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling between $500 
> and
> $2000. It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet spot for the few that
> have sold around here.

> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Rick Harnish]

Fred,

Thanks for your clarification.  I knew that PAL spectrum would float to GAA
spectrum if needed to avoid Incumbent Users.  You answered several of my
questions and we all appreciate the hard work you are doing for WISPA and
the industry.

Respectfully,

Rick Harnish
Director of WISP Markets
Baicells Technologies, N.A.
Mobile: +1.972.922.1443
Email: rick.harn...@baicells.com
Follow us on Facebook for the latest news

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 2:00 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

On 11/18/2016 1:23 PM, Rick Harnish wrote:
> Fred,
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that 3.55 - 
> 3.62 GHz
> (70 MHz) will be allocated to (7) 10 MHz PAL licenses, which will be 
> auctioned per census tract.  3.62 - 3.70 GHz (80 MHz) will be 
> allocated to GAA (General Authorized Access) with carve-outs for 
> Incumbent Users such as the Satellite Earth Station Protection Zones 
> and possibly Naval Radar entering an area.

Not quite.  The band will not be divided like that, and PALs will not be
assigned specific frequencies like PCS. A PAL grants the right to create a
PAL Protection Area (PPA) within the owned census tracts. The SAS assigns
the PAL channel. A PA licensee who claims multiple PALs in a location will
be assigned contiguous channels if possible, but they can be any of the 10
from 3550-3650. (3650 up is all GAA, after incumbents are protected.) First
they protect satellites, and those can go as low as 3600. Plus any radar, of
course, when/where it pops up in the coastal  zone. So if radar reduces the
availability of channels, PAL can be shifted away and thus bump GAA.

Given how PALs work, a CBSD may be PAL in one census tract and GAA in
another. A PPA goes down to the -96 dBm contour but only gets protection
from noise above -80 dBm, so within its PPA it could have a -16 dBm SNR.

A PA licensee could even try putting on a lot of stuff GAA and then only
invoke the PAL on sectors where it seems needed. Having one PAL could be
handy for that reason, and in rural areas it might be affordable.

> And to Josh's comment, I do still have about 30 license holders 
> looking for a buyer.  Contact me off list at rharn...@fibertothefarm.com
if interested.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Rick Harnish
> Director of WISP Markets
> Baicells Technologies, N.A.
> Mobile: +1.972.922.1443
> Email: rick.harn...@baicells.com
> Follow us on Facebook for the latest news
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 12:11 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License
>
> On 11/18/2016 11:09 AM, Chadwick Wachs wrote:
>> We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing 
>> license holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a 
>> handful of backhauls to get off of crowded 5GHz space.  However, I'm 
>> not sure if this is a smart move (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted 
>> some insight from those who have much more knowledge on where the FCC 
>> is going with this and what the likely value of a 3.65 license will 
>> be both today and next year (?) when the licenses are potentially 
>> opened back up.
>>
>> It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling 
>> between
>> $500 and $2000.  It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet 
>> spot for the few that have sold around here.
>>
> Existing 3.65 licenses all expire on the same date in 2020, *except* a 
> few from late 2010- early 2013 that can expire as late as 2023. They 
> allow you to add new radios under that license, but they are not 
> protected (from other types of CBRS users) as "incumbent" under the 
> now-operative Part 96 CBRS rules. Registration of devices that will 
> qualify as "incumbent" closed in 2015. So you can operate new gear, 
> but will have the same status as GAA (licensed-by-rule) users once 
> CBRS gear has gone through the whole process to make the new band 
> usable. There will be no Priority Access Licenses operating above 
> 3.65; PAL is limited to 3.55 to 3.65.
>
> Of course 3.65 is still subject to satellite restrictions, if you're 
> in one of the Protection Zones. Satellites are Incumbent, so on CBRS, 
> they will get protection, and both GAA and PAL channels will be 
> assigned around them. However, unlike today's 150km zones, CBRS will 
> use the Spectrum Authorization System to compute the required 
> protection. That will certainly mean less than 150 km.
>
> You can look in the FCC's ULS to see if anyone else is registered 
> nearby

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Fred Goldstein]

On 11/18/2016 1:23 PM, Rick Harnish wrote:

Fred,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that 3.55 - 3.62 GHz
(70 MHz) will be allocated to (7) 10 MHz PAL licenses, which will be
auctioned per census tract.  3.62 - 3.70 GHz (80 MHz) will be allocated to
GAA (General Authorized Access) with carve-outs for Incumbent Users such as
the Satellite Earth Station Protection Zones and possibly Naval Radar
entering an area.


Not quite.  The band will not be divided like that, and PALs will not be 
assigned specific frequencies like PCS. A PAL grants the right to create 
a PAL Protection Area (PPA) within the owned census tracts. The SAS 
assigns the PAL channel. A PA licensee who claims multiple PALs in a 
location will be assigned contiguous channels if possible, but they can 
be any of the 10 from 3550-3650. (3650 up is all GAA, after incumbents 
are protected.) First they protect satellites, and those can go as low 
as 3600. Plus any radar, of course, when/where it pops up in the 
coastal  zone. So if radar reduces the availability of channels, PAL can 
be shifted away and thus bump GAA.


Given how PALs work, a CBSD may be PAL in one census tract and GAA in 
another. A PPA goes down to the -96 dBm contour but only gets protection 
from noise above -80 dBm, so within its PPA it could have a -16 dBm SNR.


A PA licensee could even try putting on a lot of stuff GAA and then only 
invoke the PAL on sectors where it seems needed. Having one PAL could be 
handy for that reason, and in rural areas it might be affordable.



And to Josh's comment, I do still have about 30 license holders looking for
a buyer.  Contact me off list at rharn...@fibertothefarm.com if interested.

Respectfully,

Rick Harnish
Director of WISP Markets
Baicells Technologies, N.A.
Mobile: +1.972.922.1443
Email: rick.harn...@baicells.com
Follow us on Facebook for the latest news

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 12:11 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

On 11/18/2016 11:09 AM, Chadwick Wachs wrote:

We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing
license holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a handful
of backhauls to get off of crowded 5GHz space.  However, I'm not sure
if this is a smart move (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted some
insight from those who have much more knowledge on where the FCC is
going with this and what the likely value of a 3.65 license will be
both today and next year (?) when the licenses are potentially opened
back up.

It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling between
$500 and $2000.  It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet
spot for the few that have sold around here.


Existing 3.65 licenses all expire on the same date in 2020, *except* a
few from late 2010- early 2013 that can expire as late as 2023. They
allow you to add new radios under that license, but they are not
protected (from other types of CBRS users) as "incumbent" under the
now-operative Part 96 CBRS rules. Registration of devices that will
qualify as "incumbent" closed in 2015. So you can operate new gear, but
will have the same status as GAA (licensed-by-rule) users once CBRS gear
has gone through the whole process to make the new band usable. There
will be no Priority Access Licenses operating above 3.65; PAL is limited
to 3.55 to 3.65.

Of course 3.65 is still subject to satellite restrictions, if you're in
one of the Protection Zones. Satellites are Incumbent, so on CBRS, they
will get protection, and both GAA and PAL channels will be assigned
around them. However, unlike today's 150km zones, CBRS will use the
Spectrum Authorization System to compute the required protection. That
will certainly mean less than 150 km.

You can look in the FCC's ULS to see if anyone else is registered
nearby. 3.65 is subject to a "sandbox clause", wherein users have to
play nice with one another. It's unlikely that well-focused backhauls
will run into a problem there, but you should know who's around.





--
 Fred R. Goldstein  k1iofred "at" interisle.net
 Interisle Consulting Group
 +1 617 795 2701

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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Rick Harnish]

Fred,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that 3.55 - 3.62 GHz
(70 MHz) will be allocated to (7) 10 MHz PAL licenses, which will be
auctioned per census tract.  3.62 - 3.70 GHz (80 MHz) will be allocated to
GAA (General Authorized Access) with carve-outs for Incumbent Users such as
the Satellite Earth Station Protection Zones and possibly Naval Radar
entering an area.  

And to Josh's comment, I do still have about 30 license holders looking for
a buyer.  Contact me off list at rharn...@fibertothefarm.com if interested.

Respectfully,

Rick Harnish
Director of WISP Markets
Baicells Technologies, N.A.
Mobile: +1.972.922.1443
Email: rick.harn...@baicells.com
Follow us on Facebook for the latest news

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2016 12:11 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

On 11/18/2016 11:09 AM, Chadwick Wachs wrote:
> We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing 
> license holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a handful 
> of backhauls to get off of crowded 5GHz space.  However, I'm not sure 
> if this is a smart move (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted some 
> insight from those who have much more knowledge on where the FCC is 
> going with this and what the likely value of a 3.65 license will be 
> both today and next year (?) when the licenses are potentially opened 
> back up.
>
> It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling between
> $500 and $2000.  It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet 
> spot for the few that have sold around here.
>

Existing 3.65 licenses all expire on the same date in 2020, *except* a 
few from late 2010- early 2013 that can expire as late as 2023. They 
allow you to add new radios under that license, but they are not 
protected (from other types of CBRS users) as "incumbent" under the 
now-operative Part 96 CBRS rules. Registration of devices that will 
qualify as "incumbent" closed in 2015. So you can operate new gear, but 
will have the same status as GAA (licensed-by-rule) users once CBRS gear 
has gone through the whole process to make the new band usable. There 
will be no Priority Access Licenses operating above 3.65; PAL is limited 
to 3.55 to 3.65.

Of course 3.65 is still subject to satellite restrictions, if you're in 
one of the Protection Zones. Satellites are Incumbent, so on CBRS, they 
will get protection, and both GAA and PAL channels will be assigned 
around them. However, unlike today's 150km zones, CBRS will use the 
Spectrum Authorization System to compute the required protection. That 
will certainly mean less than 150 km.

You can look in the FCC's ULS to see if anyone else is registered 
nearby. 3.65 is subject to a "sandbox clause", wherein users have to 
play nice with one another. It's unlikely that well-focused backhauls 
will run into a problem there, but you should know who's around.


-- 
  Fred R. Goldstein  k1iofred "at" interisle.net
  Interisle Consulting Group
  +1 617 795 2701


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Fred Goldstein]

On 11/18/2016 11:09 AM, Chadwick Wachs wrote:
We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing 
license holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a handful 
of backhauls to get off of crowded 5GHz space.  However, I'm not sure 
if this is a smart move (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted some 
insight from those who have much more knowledge on where the FCC is 
going with this and what the likely value of a 3.65 license will be 
both today and next year (?) when the licenses are potentially opened 
back up.


It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling between 
$500 and $2000.  It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet 
spot for the few that have sold around here.




Existing 3.65 licenses all expire on the same date in 2020, *except* a 
few from late 2010- early 2013 that can expire as late as 2023. They 
allow you to add new radios under that license, but they are not 
protected (from other types of CBRS users) as "incumbent" under the 
now-operative Part 96 CBRS rules. Registration of devices that will 
qualify as "incumbent" closed in 2015. So you can operate new gear, but 
will have the same status as GAA (licensed-by-rule) users once CBRS gear 
has gone through the whole process to make the new band usable. There 
will be no Priority Access Licenses operating above 3.65; PAL is limited 
to 3.55 to 3.65.


Of course 3.65 is still subject to satellite restrictions, if you're in 
one of the Protection Zones. Satellites are Incumbent, so on CBRS, they 
will get protection, and both GAA and PAL channels will be assigned 
around them. However, unlike today's 150km zones, CBRS will use the 
Spectrum Authorization System to compute the required protection. That 
will certainly mean less than 150 km.


You can look in the FCC's ULS to see if anyone else is registered 
nearby. 3.65 is subject to a "sandbox clause", wherein users have to 
play nice with one another. It's unlikely that well-focused backhauls 
will run into a problem there, but you should know who's around.



--
 Fred R. Goldstein  k1iofred "at" interisle.net
 Interisle Consulting Group
 +1 617 795 2701

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[WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Chadwick Wachs]

We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing license
holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a handful of backhauls
to get off of crowded 5GHz space.  However, I'm not sure if this is a smart
move (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted some insight from those who have
much more knowledge on where the FCC is going with this and what the likely
value of a 3.65 license will be both today and next year (?) when the
licenses are potentially opened back up.

It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling between $500
and $2000.  It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet spot for the
few that have sold around here.
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Seth Mattinen]

On 11/18/16 08:09, Chadwick Wachs wrote:
> We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing
> license holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a handful
> of backhauls to get off of crowded 5GHz space.  However, I'm not sure if
> this is a smart move (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted some insight
> from those who have much more knowledge on where the FCC is going with
> this and what the likely value of a 3.65 license will be both today and
> next year (?) when the licenses are potentially opened back up.
>
> It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling between
> $500 and $2000.  It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet spot
> for the few that have sold around here.


The NN licenses will never open back up - something new and different 
will take its place and all of them will eventually be canceled.

Whether or not you want to wait is the question.

~Seth
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Ghz License

[Josh Luthman]

Ask Rick Harnish.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Chadwick Wachs 
wrote:

> We are considering the purchase of a 3.65 license from an existing license
> holder who is not using it. We would be using it for a handful of backhauls
> to get off of crowded 5GHz space.  However, I'm not sure if this is a smart
> move (buying a 3.65 license) and wanted some insight from those who have
> much more knowledge on where the FCC is going with this and what the likely
> value of a 3.65 license will be both today and next year (?) when the
> licenses are potentially opened back up.
>
> It looks like these licenses, at least in my area, are selling between
> $500 and $2000.  It sounds like $1,000 tends to be about the sweet spot for
> the few that have sold around here.
>
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>
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[WISPA] 3.65 GHz power rules; do you really understand them?

[Patrick Leary]

When the FCC issued the Report and Order (3.65 
ROhttps://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-56A1.pdf) for the 
3650-3700 MHz band in March of 2005, it set power limits in a manner not widely 
understood by many in the WISP community, as it based the limits for fixed 
operations on a formula relating to power density. Some quickly read 1 watt 
and assumed the limit was 36 dB EIRP, just as it is in the 5 GHz UNII rules now 
(that limit used to be only for the upper 5 GHz UNII, but was harmonized at the 
higher only recently). Even in the legacy ISM bands of 902-928 MHz, 2.4-2.5835 
GHz and 5.725-5.850 GHz we are all familiar with that 1 watt 36 dB PMP EIRP 
limit (with the CPE side up or PTP links also allowing the 3:1 rule.

Well, in 3.65 MHz that's actually not the rule. In this case, the rule applies 
a power density qualifier whereby that 1 watt limit is PER megahertz of 
frequency. Here's the language from the RO (page 19, paragraph 50):

Consequently, [for fixed operations] we believe that EIRP limits should be 
specified not simply as a maximum power, but rather in terms of power density 
(i.e., power per unit of occupied bandwidth) For example, a system using a 
bandwidth of 25 megahertz may use the full 25 Watts peak EIRP, but a system 
using only 1 megahertz bandwidth may only use 1 watt peak EIRP; in either case, 
the power density is equivalent Therefore, we adopt a fixed station peak 
power density of 25 Watts EIRP in any 25 megahertz band.

To make things even more clear, and to provide flexibility, the rule adds:

Furthermore, to promote additional flexibility in system design, any 
combination of transmitter output power and antenna gain will be permitted, so 
long as the peak 25 Watt/25 megahertz EIRP limit is not exceeded.

To drive home the point so as to be crystal clear, the FCC adds a few footnotes:

 100 We note that, at frequency ranges above one-gigahertz, a power density 
measurement bandwidth of one megahertz would typically be specified. Consistent 
with that practice, and the intent of the rules adopted here, the maximum peak 
power density in any one-megahertz slice of spectrum in this band shall not 
exceed 1 Watt.
101 For example, the Wi-Max standard specifies various bandwidths.
102 For free space propagation, distance is proportional to the square of the 
distance or in terms of decibels distance doubles for each additional 6 dB of 
power...

So how does this translate into your world? Well, this means if you are using 
10 MHz channels, as those using WiMAX are limited to using, you have a peak 
EIRP of 40 dB on a 10 MHz channel. For those using 20 MHz, as most are doing 
with Wi-Fi derivative gear or the largest channel size option of LTE, the EIRP 
limit is 43 dB.

Let's noodle this out further looking at dBm per port:

If your radio has a max power of 22 dBm per port, that's 25 dBm when used in a 
2x2 MIMO configuration. If you are using a Wi-Fi derived system at 20 MHz, any 
antenna under 18 dBi means you'd be running BELOW your power maximum. For 
example, 120 degree antennas are commonly used (many WISPs think three 120 
degree sectors is the best way to get 360 degree coverage, which is not always 
the case, e.g. we use three 65 degree antennas). 13 dBi is a common gain for a 
120 degree sector. Used with a 2x2 MIMO with peak power of 25 dBm gets you 38 
dB EIRP -- that's 5 dB LESS than your maximum allowed power, or more thoroughly 
understood, more than 1/2 your total allowed power!

Conversely, if your system produces 30 dBm max per port, that's 33 dBm in 2x2 
MIMO Mode and 36 dBm in 4x4 MIMO mode if that capability exists. The total 
limit is still 40 dB EIRP in a 10 MHz channel and 43 dB EIRP in a 20 MHz 
channel, but antenna flexibility is increased without compromising max EIRP. To 
be sure, in such a case the operator must configure the base station to reduce 
to power output of the radio to avoid violating the FCC (or IC in Canada) 
limits.

So when it comes to fixed wireless broadband in 3.65 MHz, stop thinking about 
1 watt or 36 dB EIRP, as that is only true if you were using 1 MHz 
channels. Instead, focus on 1 watt PER 1 MHz.

Finally, if we really want to have fun, we can talk about this additional 
verbiage in the FCC RO, but I'll leave that for another day:

 54. In that light, we conclude that transmitters installed at fixed locations 
should not be prohibited from using any particular type of antenna design. As a 
general requirement, the EIRP in any antenna beam must be limited to 25 Watts 
per 25 megahertz. However, transmitters using sectorized, scanning spot-beam, 
or other antenna types with multiple beam capability shall be required to limit 
their EIRP in any direction to no more than the limit we are adopting for fixed 
systems (i.e., 25 Watts per 25 megahertz). Thus, the aggregate power 
transmitted simultaneously on overlapping beams will have to be reduced such 
that the EIRP in the area of overlap does not exceed the 

[WISPA] 3.65 quiet zone letter and contact points

[David Williamson]

I need to see if anyone out there has a 3.65 quiet zone template letter
to send to the grandfathered FSS earth stations.  Also, I need contact
information for the following earth stations so I know where to send the
letters to...

 

MCI WORLDCOM Network Services, Inc.

New Skies Networks, Inc.

SES Americom, Inc.

Sprint Communications Company, L.P.

Intelsat LLC

ATT Corp.

 

Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,


David Williamson

Owner

Winchester Wireless

Winchester, VA

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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 quiet zone letter and contact points

[Freylekhman, Alex]

David
Check with this girl, she may be able to help you with that.

Alex


Cory Crenshaw
President, FCC-FAA Licensing Specialist
Crenshaw Communications Consulting, LLC
ph: 832-617-0217
em: c...@c3fcc.commailto:c...@c3fcc.commailto:c...@c3fcc.com
wb: http://www.C3FCC.comhttp://www.c3fcc.com/



Aleksander Freylekhman
Sales Director, North America
Axxcelera Broadband Wireless
a Moseley Company
  P: (804) 864-4125
  M: (440) 220-2192
afreylekh...@axxcelera.com
www.axxcelera.com

From: David Williamson 
dwilliam...@customcomputersva.commailto:dwilliam...@customcomputersva.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 23:28:06 -0400
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 quiet zone letter and contact points

I need to see if anyone out there has a 3.65 quiet zone template letter to send 
to the grandfathered FSS earth stations.  Also, I need contact information for 
the following earth stations so I know where to send the letters to…

MCI WORLDCOM Network Services, Inc.
New Skies Networks, Inc.
SES Americom, Inc.
Sprint Communications Company, L.P.
Intelsat LLC
ATT Corp.

Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks,

David Williamson
Owner
Winchester Wireless
Winchester, VA
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[WISPA] 3.65 sample letter to grandfather earth satellite

[Ken Nye]

I was wondering if anybody has a letter they sent to the Grandfathered
Earth Satellite stations to request a 3.65 waiver? I am in the SF bay
area and I have a bunch of these stations in the area, and I want a well
worded letter to send

 

Thanks!!!

~Ken




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 sample letter to grandfather earth satellite

[Charles N Wyble]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I would like that as well.

I chatted with a 3.65 gear vendor, and they said the telcos don't care.
It's the cable companies that do. Here in the Los Angeles area, I've
found that to be the case. The Sprint/ATT ground stations are up in the
Santa Monica mountains. Rolling out 3.65 service in LA/OC won't bother
them one bit. However the cable companies have lots of unidentified
ground stations, and have had issues with people utilizing 3.65 gear. So
they would only grant me PtP rights and not PtMP.

If anyone wants more details about operating 3.65 in Los Angeles feel
free to contact me off list. I plan to roll it out soon now that UBNT
has released some gear for it. :)



On 01/04/2011 10:45 AM, Ken Nye wrote:
 I was wondering if anybody has a letter they sent to the Grandfathered
 Earth Satellite stations to request a 3.65 waiver? I am in the SF bay
 area and I have a bunch of these stations in the area, and I want a well
 worded letter to send
 
  
 
 Thanks!!!
 
 ~Ken
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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- -- 
Charles N Wyble (char...@knownelement.com)
Systems craftsman for the stars
http://www.knownelement.com
Mobile: 626 539 4344
Office: 310 929 8793
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 sample letter to grandfather earth satellite

[Matt Jenkins]

  
  
Below is what I sent to Sprint for their approval. It took 90 days
for Sprint to respond but I got permission. I have some of the other
earth stations contact information if you need it. -Cheers


Dear Robin Cohen,

I was given your email by Jerry Richardson of AirCloud
Communications. 

I am writing to obtain approval to operate wireless broadband
equipment in the 3.65 GHz to 3.70 GHz frequency range at the NNE
edge of your exclusion zone. 

I have identified 2 FSS Earth Stations in Livermore / San Ramon, CA
that I believe you operate:

File number SESMOD2000112902270 located at 3745'39.70"N
12147'56.80"W.
File number SESLIC1997103001576 located at 3745'40.00"N
12147'53.00"W.

I would like to deploy point to multi-point systems for rural
broadband access within parts of Nevada, Yuba, Sierra, and Placer
counties. I will operate in full compliance with the FCC maximum
EIRP regulations. I have attached an outline (in Google Earth
format) with my approximated planned deployment areas. The very
closest edge of this area to the Livermore / San Ramon facility
would be approximately 145 Km. In addition I believe the profile
from your site to our service area is obstructed. Please see
attached profile.

If you feel our proposed operation will not cause any interference
at your Livermore / San Ramon facility I would welcome your
execution zone waiver enabling us to deploy 3.65 in our rural area.

If you have any questions or require any further information please
do not hesitate to contact me.

Thank you

Matthew Jenkins
Systems Administrator
SmarterBroadband, Inc
Office: 530.268.8289





On 01/04/2011 10:45 AM, Ken Nye wrote:

  
  
  
  
I was wondering if anybody has a letter
  they sent to the Grandfathered Earth Satellite stations to
  request a 3.65 waiver? I am in the SF bay area and I have a
  bunch of these stations in the area, and I want a well worded
  letter to send

Thanks!!!
~Ken
  
  




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[WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[Steve Barnes]

What is the #.65 license fee?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[Phil Curnutt]

$200

Phil

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 What is the #.65 license fee?

 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[RickG]

Now that 3.65 has matured some. What are the results out there? The
equipment is more money, is it worth it?

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com wrote:

 $200

 Phil


 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 What is the #.65 license fee?

 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 
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-- 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[rwf]

After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.

Not a bad deal, actually

Ralph

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Phil Curnutt
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

 

$200

Phil

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

What is the #.65 license fee?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[Jason Hensley]

Wow, so I get free radios??  Hey, UBNT, I want 1500 XR3's!!!  

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist..  J

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of rwf
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:54 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

 

After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.

Not a bad deal, actually

Ralph

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Phil Curnutt
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

 

$200

Phil

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

What is the #.65 license fee?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[David Hannum]

Speakig of 3.65 GHz . . .

Have any of you been through the 3.65 GHz Form 621 process?  How long does
this take, and then how long to get the FCC to approve once you have
completed the Form 621 process?

Kind Regards,
David Hannum
New Era Broadband, LLC




On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.comwrote:

  Wow, so I get free radios??  Hey, UBNT, I want 1500 XR3’s!!!



 Sorry, I couldn’t resist……  J







 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *rwf
 *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 10:54 AM

 *To:* 'WISPA General List'
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.

 Not a bad deal, actually

 Ralph



 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *Phil Curnutt
 *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 $200

 Phil

 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 What is the #.65 license fee?

 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[rwf]

Sorrry-

I just hear that offer expired.

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 12:01 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

 

Wow, so I get free radios??  Hey, UBNT, I want 1500 XR3's!!!  

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist..  J

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of rwf
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:54 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

 

After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.

Not a bad deal, actually

Ralph

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Phil Curnutt
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

 

$200

Phil

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

What is the #.65 license fee?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[rwf]

Took a couple weeks for the License.

Base stations and CPES (both of which need registered) took about a month.

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David Hannum
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 12:17 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

 

Speakig of 3.65 GHz . . . 

 

Have any of you been through the 3.65 GHz Form 621 process?  How long does
this take, and then how long to get the FCC to approve once you have
completed the Form 621 process?

 

Kind Regards,
David Hannum

New Era Broadband, LLC

 



 

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com
wrote:

Wow, so I get free radios??  Hey, UBNT, I want 1500 XR3's!!!  

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist..  J

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of rwf
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:54 AM 


To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

 

After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.

Not a bad deal, actually

Ralph

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Phil Curnutt
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

 

$200

Phil

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

What is the #.65 license fee?

Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[RickG]

How is the performance?

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, rwf ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:

 Took a couple weeks for the License.

 Base stations and CPES (both of which need registered) took about a month.





 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *David Hannum
 *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 12:17 PM

 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 Speakig of 3.65 GHz . . .



 Have any of you been through the 3.65 GHz Form 621 process?  How long does
 this take, and then how long to get the FCC to approve once you have
 completed the Form 621 process?



 Kind Regards,
 David Hannum

 New Era Broadband, LLC







 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com
 wrote:

 Wow, so I get free radios??  Hey, UBNT, I want 1500 XR3’s!!!



 Sorry, I couldn’t resist……  J







 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *rwf
 *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 10:54 AM


 *To:* 'WISPA General List'
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.

 Not a bad deal, actually

 Ralph



 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *Phil Curnutt
 *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 $200

 Phil

 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 What is the #.65 license fee?

 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

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-- 
-RickG



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[Josh Luthman]

I'm hearing a lot of 3+ months complaints.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:17 PM, David Hannum oujas...@gmail.com wrote:
 Speakig of 3.65 GHz . . .

 Have any of you been through the 3.65 GHz Form 621 process?  How long does
 this take, and then how long to get the FCC to approve once you have
 completed the Form 621 process?

 Kind Regards,
 David Hannum
 New Era Broadband, LLC



 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com
 wrote:

 Wow, so I get free radios??  Hey, UBNT, I want 1500 XR3’s!!!



 Sorry, I couldn’t resist……  J







 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of rwf
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:54 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.

 Not a bad deal, actually

 Ralph



 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Phil Curnutt
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 $200

 Phil

 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 What is the #.65 license fee?

 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[Jeremie Chism]

I've had excellent performance. 

Sent from my iPhone4

On Nov 19, 2010, at 6:45 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

 How is the performance?
 
 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, rwf ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
 Took a couple weeks for the License.
 
 Base stations and CPES (both of which need registered) took about a month.
 
  
 
  
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of David Hannum
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 12:17 PM
 
 
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee
  
 
 Speakig of 3.65 GHz . . .
 
  
 
 Have any of you been through the 3.65 GHz Form 621 process?  How long does 
 this take, and then how long to get the FCC to approve once you have 
 completed the Form 621 process?
 
  
 
 Kind Regards,
 David Hannum
 
 New Era Broadband, LLC
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote:
 
 Wow, so I get free radios??  Hey, UBNT, I want 1500 XR3’s!!! 
 
  
 
 Sorry, I couldn’t resist……  J
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of rwf
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:54 AM
 
 
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee
 
  
 
 After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.
 
 Not a bad deal, actually
 
 Ralph
 
  
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Phil Curnutt
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee
 
  
 
 $200
 
 Phil
 
 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:
 
 What is the #.65 license fee?
 
 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[RickG]

What brand? Thanks!

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've had excellent performance.

 Sent from my iPhone4

 On Nov 19, 2010, at 6:45 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

 How is the performance?

 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, rwf  ralphli...@bsrg.org
 ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:

 Took a couple weeks for the License.

 Base stations and CPES (both of which need registered) took about a month.





 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org 
 [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *David Hannum
 *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 12:17 PM

 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 Speakig of 3.65 GHz . . .



 Have any of you been through the 3.65 GHz Form 621 process?  How long does
 this take, and then how long to get the FCC to approve once you have
 completed the Form 621 process?



 Kind Regards,
 David Hannum

 New Era Broadband, LLC







 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jason Hensley  ja...@jaggartech.com
 ja...@jaggartech.com wrote:

 Wow, so I get free radios??  Hey, UBNT, I want 1500 XR3’s!!!



 Sorry, I couldn’t resist……  J







 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org 
 [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *rwf
 *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 10:54 AM


 *To:* 'WISPA General List'
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.

 Not a bad deal, actually

 Ralph



 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org 
 [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
 wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Phil Curnutt
 *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee



 $200

 Phil

 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes  st...@pcswin.com
 st...@pcswin.com wrote:

 What is the #.65 license fee?

 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



 
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-- 
-RickG



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee

[Jeremie Chism]

Axxcelera. 

Sent from my iPhone4

On Nov 19, 2010, at 7:20 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:

 What brand? Thanks! 
 
 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've had excellent performance. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone4
 
 On Nov 19, 2010, at 6:45 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 How is the performance?
 
 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:33 PM, rwf ralphli...@bsrg.org wrote:
 Took a couple weeks for the License.
 
 Base stations and CPES (both of which need registered) took about a month.
 
  
 
  
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of David Hannum
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 12:17 PM
 
 
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee
  
 
 Speakig of 3.65 GHz . . .
 
  
 
 Have any of you been through the 3.65 GHz Form 621 process?  How long does 
 this take, and then how long to get the FCC to approve once you have 
 completed the Form 621 process?
 
  
 
 Kind Regards,
 David Hannum
 
 New Era Broadband, LLC
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote:
 
 Wow, so I get free radios??  Hey, UBNT, I want 1500 XR3’s!!! 
 
  
 
 Sorry, I couldn’t resist……  J
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of rwf
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 10:54 AM
 
 
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee
 
  
 
 After the 200.00, there is no fee for the actual radios.
 
 Not a bad deal, actually
 
 Ralph
 
  
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Phil Curnutt
 Sent: Friday, November 19, 2010 9:12 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 License fee
 
  
 
 $200
 
 Phil
 
 On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote:
 
 What is the #.65 license fee?
 
 Steve Barnes
 RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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 -- 
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[WISPA] 3.65 MIMO 2x2 CPE

[Matt Jenkins]

I am surprised that there are a bunch of MIMO 2x2 APs (Alvarion, Moto, 
Airspan, etc) yet I cannot find a CPE. For foliage penetration the lack 
of the dual Tx on the CPE is a real disappointment. Has anyone seen a 
802.16e true MIMO CPE?



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Which brand of wimax gear you using?

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

I have a small wimax deployment with 20 subs and 130 phone lines and I  
wouldn't change a thing. All business customers with very high quality  
voip. I section all the voip traffic out with ugs and leave the  
Internet as best effort to guarantee service levels. All my subs can  
easily get 5-6 megs upload which is far better than dsl or cable.  And  
the best part is you set it and it is the same every day. All units  
keep the highest modulation (qam 64 3/4). If you do have one unit that  
has a week signal it really has no effect on the overall system. There  
are many other benefits but that is a few off the top of my head.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote:

 anyone know the benefits of WiMax?

 I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there  
 are
 a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than  
 simple
 polling or tdma approaches.

 After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more
 with Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks.
 But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed
 from current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is
 usually available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or
 10 MHz channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G
 and now has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel, even a
 high goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands
 and we ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios.

 My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application besides
 Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet
 access for mobile devices (including public safety and first
 responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other
 technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010.

 4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and see.


 Rubens


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Jeremie Chism]

Axxcelera. I have a contact there that could probably get you a demo  
if you are interested.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2010, at 7:31 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com  
wrote:

 Which brand of wimax gear you using?

 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 10:38 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I have a small wimax deployment with 20 subs and 130 phone lines and I
 wouldn't change a thing. All business customers with very high quality
 voip. I section all the voip traffic out with ugs and leave the
 Internet as best effort to guarantee service levels. All my subs can
 easily get 5-6 megs upload which is far better than dsl or cable.  And
 the best part is you set it and it is the same every day. All units
 keep the highest modulation (qam 64 3/4). If you do have one unit that
 has a week signal it really has no effect on the overall system. There
 are many other benefits but that is a few off the top of my head.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote:

 anyone know the benefits of WiMax?

 I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there
 are
 a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than
 simple
 polling or tdma approaches.

 After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more
 with Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks.
 But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed
 from current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is
 usually available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or
 10 MHz channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G
 and now has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel,  
 even a
 high goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands
 and we ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios.

 My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application  
 besides
 Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet
 access for mobile devices (including public safety and first
 responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other
 technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010.

 4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and  
 see.


 Rubens


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

Don't hold your breath for 802.16m!  


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:23 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 anyone know the benefits of WiMax?

 I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there 
 are a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than 
 simple polling or tdma approaches.

After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more with
Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks.
But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed from
current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is usually
available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or 10 MHz
channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G and now
has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel, even a high
goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands and we
ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios.

My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application besides
Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet
access for mobile devices (including public safety and first
responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other
technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010.

4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and see.


Rubens




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Matt]

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are
 tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business,
 so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5
 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320
 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the
 price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no
 minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price.

Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

Matt



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Jeremie Chism]

I think the new motorola is mimo.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks  
 are
 tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP  
 business,
 so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks --  
 the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5
 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)  
 PM320
 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective  
 immediately, the
 price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and  
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and  
 no
 minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same  
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

No. We use 802.16d, which is optimized for fixed wireless, and 802.16d
does not support MIMO. MIMO would be nice, but we do not think it is
worth the extra cost in the WiMAX system. As it is we get excellent
range. Last week one of our engineers was in a major CA city with a
customer and pulled 16 mbps stable over 13 km in a 7 MHz channel. The
capacity (link permitting) is up to 20 mbps and I have seen it at those
ranges.  

Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks 
 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP 
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto 
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5 
 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320

 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, 
 the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi 
 integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 
 GHz with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs 
 and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same
price.

Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

Matt




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station
costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed
according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so
far. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

I think the new motorola is mimo.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks 
 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP 
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto 
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) 
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective 
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and 
 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same 
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Matt]

Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration.

Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base station
 costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed
 according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto 320 so
 far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks
 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and
 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Jeremie Chism]

Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree  
 penetration.

 Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base  
 station
 costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed
 according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto  
 320 so
 far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks
 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65  
 and 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and
 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


 --- 
 --- 
 --- 
 --- 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Michael Baird]

They don't support PPPoE, at least not in anything but the indoor unit 
which isn't available for 3.65 or 802.16D.

I didn't think Aperto's gear which is 802.16d supports MIMO either, 
that's mostly an 802.16e spec unless they've come up with something 
proprietary.

That's one of the reason's I'm down on Wimax, the radios are bare bones 
bridges for the most part, for the cost they are asking you think they 
could implement some niceties for fixed people, such as a robust 
management solution (not DHCP).

Motorola is 802.16e and MIMO, as is Alvarion, WiNetworks and Airspan.

Regards
Michael Baird
 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

   
 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree  
 penetration.

 Matt


 
 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base  
 station
 costs are less or similar and we are getting much better uplink speed
 according to what I have seen so far from reports about the Moto  
 320 so
 far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

   
 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks
 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65  
 and 5
   
 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and
 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same
 price.
   
 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt
 
 --- 
 --- 
 --- 
 --- 
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to
be especially true in more rural deployments. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree 
 penetration.

 Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base 
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better 
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about 
 the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]

 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks

 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP 
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto 
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and

 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) 
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective 
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and

 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same 
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


 ---
 ---
 ---
 ---
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Mike Hammett]

Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.  More 
complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to
 be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree
 penetration.

 Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about
 the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]

 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks

 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and

 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and

 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


 ---
 ---
 ---
 ---
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

Yes, we support PPPoE. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree penetration.

Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base 
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better 
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about 
 the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks 
 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP 
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto 
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 
 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) 
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective 
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and 
 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same 
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

We do support PPPoE Michael. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:04 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

They don't support PPPoE, at least not in anything but the indoor unit
which isn't available for 3.65 or 802.16D.

I didn't think Aperto's gear which is 802.16d supports MIMO either,
that's mostly an 802.16e spec unless they've come up with something
proprietary.

That's one of the reason's I'm down on Wimax, the radios are bare bones
bridges for the most part, for the cost they are asking you think they
could implement some niceties for fixed people, such as a robust
management solution (not DHCP).

Motorola is 802.16e and MIMO, as is Alvarion, WiNetworks and Airspan.

Regards
Michael Baird
 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

   
 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree 
 penetration.

 Matt


 
 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base 
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better 
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about

 the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

   
 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto 
 Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into

 the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So

 Aperto Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 
 and 5
   
 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) 
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective 
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band 
 and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs 
 and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, 
 same price.
   
 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt
 
 ---
 ---
 ---
 ---
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
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 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.  More
complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this
to
 be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree
 penetration.

 Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about
 the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
boun...@wispa.org]

 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto
Networks

 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65
and

 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band
and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs
and

 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


 ---
 ---
 ---
 ---
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Gino Villarini]

Exactly.

Wifi mimo chips are cheap, custom fpgas and others used in wimax and
propierty protocols are more expensive.  

Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
787.273.4143

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.  More
complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this
to
 be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree
 penetration.

 Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about
 the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
boun...@wispa.org]

 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto
Networks

 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65
and

 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band
and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs
and

 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Rubens Kuhl]

What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and
make them good products.
The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can
do MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the
higher CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along.

Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the
WiMAX world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all
those cheap asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in
16d.

http://www.purewavenetworks.com



Rubens


On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:
 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.  More
 complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this
 to
 be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree
 penetration.

 Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about
 the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org]

 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto
 Networks

 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP
 business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto
 Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65
 and

 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band
 and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs
 and

 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same
 price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


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 ---
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Randy Cosby]

In my limited toe-dipping into 802.16d (fixed) wimax, the biggest 
challenge I see is with the EMS-based control.  It's just a completely 
different model than what we're doing with all-in-one AP's now.  I don't 
yet completely understand how it works, but it concerns me a bit that 
each company has their own EMS (or whatever they choose to call it) that 
will not interoperate with other Wimax vendors' EMS, base station, etc.  
Maybe the EMS is a good way to go, so we don't have to invent so many 
for our current very customized networks..  Just a different way of 
thinking.

Anyone deployed something small like a Tranzeo or small Aperto base station?

On 3/17/2010 7:27 PM, Butch Evans wrote:
 On Wed, 2010-03-17 at 21:07 -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote:

 Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ?
  
 Sold on...not me.  Recognize that there ARE some benefits...YES!


 I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except
 higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far...

 I could be wrong - guess its time for an education

 anyone know the benefits of WiMax?
  
 I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are
 a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple
 polling or tdma approaches.  First thing to remember is that WiMAX was
 designed specifically for the way we use our networks.  That is, outdoor
 where we will see noise AND where all stations to not see each other.
 There were a number of issues that WiMAX addresses revolving those 2
 issues specifically.

 Secondly, WiMAX has built in QOS on the air interface.  That is HUGE.
 The ability to have true QOS on that part of the network where protocols
 that need the least latency will get it, regardless of where they fit in
 the polling order as it were.  The details here are astonishing and
 worth reading if you truly have an interest in answering the question
 why should I be interested in WiMAX.

 Having pointed out just one or two of the many benefits of WiMAX, I will
 say that I am not completely convinced that it is the cat's meow.  There
 are a number of networks that do not need these benefits, given the
 cost.  I won't reopen the good enough network argument, but the fact
 is that for many of us (most perhaps), polling or tdma is sufficient for
 the networks that we run and the cost of WiMAX makes it such that the
 cost is greater than the value.



-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/

Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Michael Baird]

Patrick,

On all units? I actually spoke with Aperto about this issue and they 
said they had no plans to support it, that is good news, you should 
update your specifications then.

I like the Aperto guys I dealt with, but part of our spec calls for 
MIMO/802.16e, when you get there, then we can consider it, 
PPPoE/NAT/DHCP Server is a great start though.

Regards
Michael Baird
 We do support PPPoE Michael. 


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Michael Baird
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:04 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 They don't support PPPoE, at least not in anything but the indoor unit
 which isn't available for 3.65 or 802.16D.

 I didn't think Aperto's gear which is 802.16d supports MIMO either,
 that's mostly an 802.16e spec unless they've come up with something
 proprietary.

 That's one of the reason's I'm down on Wimax, the radios are bare bones
 bridges for the most part, for the cost they are asking you think they
 could implement some niceties for fixed people, such as a robust
 management solution (not DHCP).

 Motorola is 802.16e and MIMO, as is Alvarion, WiNetworks and Airspan.

 Regards
 Michael Baird
   
 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

   
 
 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree 
 penetration.

 Matt


 
   
 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base 
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better 
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about
 

   
 the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
 boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

   
 
 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto 
 Networks are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into
 

   
 the WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So
 

   
 Aperto Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 
 and 5
   
 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) 
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective 
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band 
 and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs 
 and no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, 
 same price.
   
 
 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt
 
   
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Jayson Baker]

Why would you use this in rural deployment, as opposed to something like a
cheaper UBNT MIMO system, which will give you better penetration?

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this to
 be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

  Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree
  penetration.
 
  Matt
 
 
  Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base
  station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better
  uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports about
  the Moto 320 so far.
 
 
  Patrick Leary
  Aperto Networks
  813.426.4230 mobile
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org]

  On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
  Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
 
  I think the new motorola is mimo.
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks

  are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP
  business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto
  Networks -- the
  802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and

  5
 
  GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
  PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
  immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band and
  17 dbi integrated
  (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
  3.65 GHz
  with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and

  no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same
  price.
 
  Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?
 
  Matt
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows someone 
to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is one of the 
most 180 degrees wrong myths. 

The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its own 
CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull.

What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX Forum's 
efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) with it being 
somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 GHz. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Rubens Kuhl
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them 
good products.
The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO 
and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for a 
small 802.16e deployment until they came along.

Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX world 
before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian CPEs 
instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d.

http://www.purewavenetworks.com



Rubens


On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:
 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.  More 
 complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but 
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this
 to
 be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree 
 penetration.

 Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base 
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better 
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports 
 about the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org]

 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto
 Networks

 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the 
 WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So 
 Aperto Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65
 and

 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) 
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective 
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band
 and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs
 and

 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, 
 same price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


 ---
 ---
 ---
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

Apples to oranges. If you don't care about QoS and are happy with a best
effort service offering with limited ability to do things like voice and
video, the .11 stuff is fine. I appreciate it fits the needs of many
WISPs. Just don't make the mistake in thinking that what works for you
is best for everyone. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jayson Baker
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:00 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

Why would you use this in rural deployment, as opposed to something like
a cheaper UBNT MIMO system, which will give you better penetration?

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
wrote:

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but 
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this 
 to be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

  Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree 
  penetration.
 
  Matt
 
 
  Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base 
  station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better 
  uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports 
  about the Moto 320 so far.
 
 
  Patrick Leary
  Aperto Networks
  813.426.4230 mobile
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
  boun...@wispa.org]

  On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
  Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
 
  I think the new motorola is mimo.
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto 
  Networks

  are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the 
  WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So 
  Aperto Networks -- the
  802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 
  and

  5
 
  GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) 
  PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective 
  immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band 
  and
  17 dbi integrated
  (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
  3.65 GHz
  with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs 
  and

  no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, 
  same price.
 
  Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?
 
  Matt
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Rubens Kuhl]

What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is
something that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which
is not as popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies.

If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for
Aperto, not for the marketplace.


Rubens


On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:
 Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows 
 someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is one 
 of the most 180 degrees wrong myths.

 The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its 
 own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull.

 What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX 
 Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) with 
 it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 GHz.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them 
 good products.
 The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO 
 and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for 
 a small 802.16e deployment until they came along.

 Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX 
 world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian 
 CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d.

 http://www.purewavenetworks.com



 Rubens


 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:
 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.  More
 complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this
 to
 be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree
 penetration.

 Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports
 about the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org]

 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 I think the new motorola is mimo.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto
 Networks

 are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the
 WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So
 Aperto Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65
 and

 5

 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
 PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
 immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band
 and
 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
 3.65 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs
 and

 no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one,
 same price.

 Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?

 Matt


 ---
 ---
 ---
 ---
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Mike Hammett]

I hope no one else does what's best for me... because that means I have 
competent competition.  :-p  jk


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:13 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Apples to oranges. If you don't care about QoS and are happy with a best
 effort service offering with limited ability to do things like voice and
 video, the .11 stuff is fine. I appreciate it fits the needs of many
 WISPs. Just don't make the mistake in thinking that what works for you
 is best for everyone.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jayson Baker
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:00 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Why would you use this in rural deployment, as opposed to something like
 a cheaper UBNT MIMO system, which will give you better penetration?

 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
 wrote:

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this
 to be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

  Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree
  penetration.
 
  Matt
 
 
  Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base
  station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better
  uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports
  about the Moto 320 so far.
 
 
  Patrick Leary
  Aperto Networks
  813.426.4230 mobile
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
  boun...@wispa.org]

  On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
  Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:30 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal
 
  I think the new motorola is mimo.
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto
  Networks

  are tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the
  WISP business, so we are taking matters into our own hands. So
  Aperto Networks -- the
  802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65
  and

  5
 
  GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE)
  PM320 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective
  immediately, the price applies to all N type CPE in either band
  and
  17 dbi integrated
  (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and
  3.65 GHz
  with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs
  and

  no minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one,
  same price.
 
  Is there 3.65 stuff MIMO?
 
  Matt
 
 
  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---
  
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Patrick Leary]

My point stands Ruben; thanks for making it for me further. You are referring 
to a licensed frequency of 3.5 GHz. I am referring to quasi (really unlicensed 
from a practical standpoint) 3.65 GHz.

I have been around the block a very long time in this business. The rude fact 
is that the big companies don't care about this small (from a global 
perspective) U.S. niche band of 3.65 GHz enough to put any money and resources 
into interoperability. It is not like globally accepted (U.S. not withstanding) 
licensed 3.5 GHz (which is still a tiny market relative to Wi-Fi) and the even 
smaller licensed 2.5 GHz in the U.S. (or 2.3 GHz WiBRO in South Korea).

I am well compentent and authoritative enough to speak on this industry far 
beyond the narrow confines of my company. And as I have been doing since Dec 
1999 when I first hit the lists, I will call BS and/or clarify market 
misunderstanding when I see it.


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Rubens Kuhl
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:38 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is something 
that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is not as popular 
as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies.

If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, not 
for the marketplace.


Rubens


On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:
 Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows 
 someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is one 
 of the most 180 degrees wrong myths.

 The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its 
 own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull.

 What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX 
 Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) with 
 it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 GHz.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
 On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make them 
 good products.
 The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO 
 and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX for 
 a small 802.16e deployment until they came along.

 Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX 
 world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap asian 
 CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d.

 http://www.purewavenetworks.com



 Rubens


 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:
 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.  
 More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but 
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this
 to
 be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you support PPPoE in the SM?  Heard that MIMO helps tree 
 penetration.

 Matt


 Yes, but you won't pay $200 for their CPE complete and our base 
 station costs are less or similar and we are getting much better 
 uplink speed according to what I have seen so far from reports 
 about the Moto 320 so far.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
 boun...@wispa.org]

 On Behalf

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Forbes Mercy]

I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm going to 
use it in my city.  I've been catering to my rural customers because 2.4 
and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there.  We already have a 3.65 license but 
haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that frequency.

Forbes



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Randy Cosby]

Can someone clarify, is the Motorola 320 MIMO out of the box?  Is it two 
(or more) antennas in the same polarity?

Randy


On 3/18/2010 1:23 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:
 I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm going to
 use it in my city.  I've been catering to my rural customers because 2.4
 and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there.  We already have a 3.65 license but
 haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that frequency.

 Forbes


 
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-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/

Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Randy Cosby]

For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's 
on your list of things you don't want?

Randy


On 3/18/2010 1:37 PM, Rubens Kuhl wrote:
 The same base-station company I mentioned in my previous post has done
 interoperability testing and certified 3.65 CPEs from asian vendors as
 well...
 http://www.purewavenetworks.com/Solutions/CPEPortfolio.aspx

 3.65-3.675 GHz

 MTI
 XS-615-035M-021
 P/N: 050-00365-25M

 3.6-3.8 GHz   

 GEMTEK
 WIXS-177
 P/N: 050-00365-155

 They are both based on the Sequans chipset which is a quite popular
 choice among asian (and some non-asian) vendors, so (besides FCC
 certification) most asian CPEs are very likely to work.

 That makes MIMO and beamforming available at 3.65 GHz, I guess.
 Disclaimer: I've not tested MIMO and/or beamforming at 3.65 GHz, but
 at 3.5 GHz the technology is a game changer. I've also not tested
 Purewave gear as they weren't on the market at the time of the tests,
 but their choice of not requiring an ASN gateway was on the wish-list
 I gave to all the vendors that we actually tested.


 Rubens



 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com  wrote:

 My point stands Ruben; thanks for making it for me further. You are 
 referring to a licensed frequency of 3.5 GHz. I am referring to quasi 
 (really unlicensed from a practical standpoint) 3.65 GHz.

 I have been around the block a very long time in this business. The rude 
 fact is that the big companies don't care about this small (from a global 
 perspective) U.S. niche band of 3.65 GHz enough to put any money and 
 resources into interoperability. It is not like globally accepted (U.S. not 
 withstanding) licensed 3.5 GHz (which is still a tiny market relative to 
 Wi-Fi) and the even smaller licensed 2.5 GHz in the U.S. (or 2.3 GHz WiBRO 
 in South Korea).

 I am well compentent and authoritative enough to speak on this industry far 
 beyond the narrow confines of my company. And as I have been doing since Dec 
 1999 when I first hit the lists, I will call BS and/or clarify market 
 misunderstanding when I see it.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:38 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is 
 something that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is 
 not as popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies.

 If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, not 
 for the marketplace.


 Rubens


 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com  wrote:
  
 Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows 
 someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is 
 one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths.

 The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its 
 own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull.

 What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX 
 Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) 
 with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 
 3.65 GHz.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make 
 them good products.
 The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do 
 MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher 
 CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along.

 Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX 
 world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap 
 asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d.

 http://www.purewavenetworks.com



 Rubens


 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com  wrote:

 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.
 More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Patrick

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Eric Muehleisen]

In the Motorola 320, the AP as 2 TX and 2 RX. The SM's have 2 TX and 1 
RX. It will operate at MIMO Matrix B if optimal signal can be achieved. 
Otherwise it operates at MIMO A.

-Eric

On 3/18/2010 2:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:
 Can someone clarify, is the Motorola 320 MIMO out of the box?  Is it two
 (or more) antennas in the same polarity?

 Randy


 On 3/18/2010 1:23 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:

 I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm going to
 use it in my city.  I've been catering to my rural customers because 2.4
 and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there.  We already have a 3.65 license but
 haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that frequency.

 Forbes


 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Eric Muehleisen]

The ASN is good for cellular type hand-off in the 802.16e mobility 
profile. It's typically very expensive. Not usually required if in a 
fixed application.

-Eric

On 3/18/2010 2:41 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:
 For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's
 on your list of things you don't want?

 Randy


 On 3/18/2010 1:37 PM, Rubens Kuhl wrote:

 The same base-station company I mentioned in my previous post has done
 interoperability testing and certified 3.65 CPEs from asian vendors as
 well...
 http://www.purewavenetworks.com/Solutions/CPEPortfolio.aspx

 3.65-3.675 GHz   

 MTI
 XS-615-035M-021
 P/N: 050-00365-25M

 3.6-3.8 GHz  

 GEMTEK
 WIXS-177
 P/N: 050-00365-155

 They are both based on the Sequans chipset which is a quite popular
 choice among asian (and some non-asian) vendors, so (besides FCC
 certification) most asian CPEs are very likely to work.

 That makes MIMO and beamforming available at 3.65 GHz, I guess.
 Disclaimer: I've not tested MIMO and/or beamforming at 3.65 GHz, but
 at 3.5 GHz the technology is a game changer. I've also not tested
 Purewave gear as they weren't on the market at the time of the tests,
 but their choice of not requiring an ASN gateway was on the wish-list
 I gave to all the vendors that we actually tested.


 Rubens



 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com   wrote:

  
 My point stands Ruben; thanks for making it for me further. You are 
 referring to a licensed frequency of 3.5 GHz. I am referring to quasi 
 (really unlicensed from a practical standpoint) 3.65 GHz.

 I have been around the block a very long time in this business. The rude 
 fact is that the big companies don't care about this small (from a global 
 perspective) U.S. niche band of 3.65 GHz enough to put any money and 
 resources into interoperability. It is not like globally accepted (U.S. not 
 withstanding) licensed 3.5 GHz (which is still a tiny market relative to 
 Wi-Fi) and the even smaller licensed 2.5 GHz in the U.S. (or 2.3 GHz WiBRO 
 in South Korea).

 I am well compentent and authoritative enough to speak on this industry far 
 beyond the narrow confines of my company. And as I have been doing since 
 Dec 1999 when I first hit the lists, I will call BS and/or clarify market 
 misunderstanding when I see it.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:38 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is 
 something that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is 
 not as popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies.

 If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, 
 not for the marketplace.


 Rubens


 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com   
 wrote:


 Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows 
 someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is 
 one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths.

 The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its 
 own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull.

 What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX 
 Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) 
 with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 
 3.65 GHz.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make 
 them good products.
 The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do 
 MIMO and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher 
 CAPEX for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along.

 Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX 
 world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap 
 asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d.

 http://www.purewavenetworks.com



 Rubens


 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Learyple...@apertonet.com   
 wrote:

  
 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Rubens Kuhl]

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote:
 For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's
 on your list of things you don't want?

An ASN gateway sits between the Radio Access Network (where there are
only tunnels from the base station to the ASN GW) and the Core
Services Network, where the traffic seen is the user traffic. You can
see a better explation with diagrams in:

http://www.tutorialspoint.com/wimax/wimax_network_model.htm

ASN gateways are usually expensive, as are the BSC (Base Station
Controllers) that have a similar role in cellular networks. What Pure
Wave is doing is something that was once know as Profile B where the
base station could work without an ASN gateway. Navini gear before
Cisco also worked like this, which is very similar to what an Wi-Fi
Access-Point usually does.

In larger networks ASN gateways are essential to scaling the network
and the ones I've tested were pretty good. I just don't want to pay
the price of them.


Rubens



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Gino Villarini]

Sm has 2 rx 1 tx

Sent from my Motorola Startac...


On Mar 18, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Eric Muehleisen ericm...@gmail.com  
wrote:

 In the Motorola 320, the AP as 2 TX and 2 RX. The SM's have 2 TX and 1
 RX. It will operate at MIMO Matrix B if optimal signal can be  
 achieved.
 Otherwise it operates at MIMO A.

 -Eric

 On 3/18/2010 2:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:
 Can someone clarify, is the Motorola 320 MIMO out of the box?  Is  
 it two
 (or more) antennas in the same polarity?

 Randy


 On 3/18/2010 1:23 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:

 I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm  
 going to
 use it in my city.  I've been catering to my rural customers  
 because 2.4
 and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there.  We already have a 3.65 license  
 but
 haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that  
 frequency.

 Forbes


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Randy Cosby]

Thanks.  Now, on the Motorola 320, for example, the ASN gateway is not 
part of the picture, correct?



On 3/18/2010 1:59 PM, Rubens Kuhl wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Randy Cosbydco...@infowest.com  wrote:

 For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's
 on your list of things you don't want?
  
 An ASN gateway sits between the Radio Access Network (where there are
 only tunnels from the base station to the ASN GW) and the Core
 Services Network, where the traffic seen is the user traffic. You can
 see a better explation with diagrams in:

 http://www.tutorialspoint.com/wimax/wimax_network_model.htm

 ASN gateways are usually expensive, as are the BSC (Base Station
 Controllers) that have a similar role in cellular networks. What Pure
 Wave is doing is something that was once know as Profile B where the
 base station could work without an ASN gateway. Navini gear before
 Cisco also worked like this, which is very similar to what an Wi-Fi
 Access-Point usually does.

 In larger networks ASN gateways are essential to scaling the network
 and the ones I've tested were pretty good. I just don't want to pay
 the price of them.


 Rubens


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

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-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/

Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Eric Muehleisen]

You are correct. Thanks for the clarification.

-Eric

On 3/18/2010 2:58 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
 Sm has 2 rx 1 tx

 Sent from my Motorola Startac...


 On Mar 18, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Eric Muehleisenericm...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 In the Motorola 320, the AP as 2 TX and 2 RX. The SM's have 2 TX and 1
 RX. It will operate at MIMO Matrix B if optimal signal can be
 achieved.
 Otherwise it operates at MIMO A.

 -Eric

 On 3/18/2010 2:39 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:
  
 Can someone clarify, is the Motorola 320 MIMO out of the box?  Is
 it two
 (or more) antennas in the same polarity?

 Randy


 On 3/18/2010 1:23 PM, Forbes Mercy wrote:


 I have to admit if MIMO is made available in the 3.65 range I'm
 going to
 use it in my city.  I've been catering to my rural customers
 because 2.4
 and 5GHZ isn't clogged out there.  We already have a 3.65 license
 but
 haven't deployed it yet, I anxiously await the MIMO gear on that
 frequency.

 Forbes


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 ---
 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Eric Muehleisen]

Correct. No ASN. Service flows and classifications are set directly in 
the AP. Radius is built into the SM. It's fully L3 routeable. Currently 
no L2 functionality.

-Eric

On 3/18/2010 3:11 PM, Randy Cosby wrote:
 Thanks.  Now, on the Motorola 320, for example, the ASN gateway is not
 part of the picture, correct?



 On 3/18/2010 1:59 PM, Rubens Kuhl wrote:

 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Randy Cosbydco...@infowest.com   wrote:

  
 For us WiMAX neophytes, could you explain the ASN gateway and why it's
 on your list of things you don't want?


 An ASN gateway sits between the Radio Access Network (where there are
 only tunnels from the base station to the ASN GW) and the Core
 Services Network, where the traffic seen is the user traffic. You can
 see a better explation with diagrams in:

 http://www.tutorialspoint.com/wimax/wimax_network_model.htm

 ASN gateways are usually expensive, as are the BSC (Base Station
 Controllers) that have a similar role in cellular networks. What Pure
 Wave is doing is something that was once know as Profile B where the
 base station could work without an ASN gateway. Navini gear before
 Cisco also worked like this, which is very similar to what an Wi-Fi
 Access-Point usually does.

 In larger networks ASN gateways are essential to scaling the network
 and the ones I've tested were pretty good. I just don't want to pay
 the price of them.


 Rubens


 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Rubens Kuhl]

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote:
 Thanks.  Now, on the Motorola 320, for example, the ASN gateway is not
 part of the picture, correct?

According ot its specs, no ASN gateway is required:

Low Cost Infrastructure The CAP 320 does not require ASN gateways or
specialized CSN servers. The
system efficiently runs over a wireless backhaul by performing local
peer-to-peer routing at the base
station.

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Business/Products/Wireless%20Networks/Wireless%20Broadband%20Networks/Point%20to%20Multi-point%20Networks/Canopy%20Products/PMP_320_Series/WB_CAP%20320_Specification%20Sheet.pdf?localeId=33

The Motorola 16e APs I've tested required an ASN gateway but they
indeed mentioned they were working on not having it as a requirement.
It's probably good though that a base station could be configured to
use an ASN gateway, flexibility is never too much (unless it increases
pricing... :-).


Rubens



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[RickG]

FYI: Pat does know this industry inside  out. In my book, he has
earned the right to toot his horn. I'm certain others in the industry
will vouch for him as well. Many have come  gone on this list so
we're fortunate to have him still around. I've been on the list since
'04 and have learned a lot from his posts and from others here. Stick
with the facts and we'll all learn a thing or two. I'm still on two :)
-RickG

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:
 My point stands Ruben; thanks for making it for me further. You are referring 
 to a licensed frequency of 3.5 GHz. I am referring to quasi (really 
 unlicensed from a practical standpoint) 3.65 GHz.

 I have been around the block a very long time in this business. The rude fact 
 is that the big companies don't care about this small (from a global 
 perspective) U.S. niche band of 3.65 GHz enough to put any money and 
 resources into interoperability. It is not like globally accepted (U.S. not 
 withstanding) licensed 3.5 GHz (which is still a tiny market relative to 
 Wi-Fi) and the even smaller licensed 2.5 GHz in the U.S. (or 2.3 GHz WiBRO in 
 South Korea).

 I am well compentent and authoritative enough to speak on this industry far 
 beyond the narrow confines of my company. And as I have been doing since Dec 
 1999 when I first hit the lists, I will call BS and/or clarify market 
 misunderstanding when I see it.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:38 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 What you call a total myth (CPE x basestation interopoerability) is something 
 that I actually tested in the field with 3.5 GHz .16e, which is not as 
 popular as 2.3/2.5 WiBro/Clearwire/Yota frequencies.

 If Aperto has such interoperability issues, please talk only for Aperto, not 
 for the marketplace.


 Rubens


 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:
 Myth. Total Myth. There is no interoperability in 3.65 GHz that allows 
 someone to source .16e CPE from any number of Cheap asian CPEs. That is 
 one of the most 180 degrees wrong myths.

 The fact is that every vendor, regardless of the WiMAX standard, sells its 
 own CPE precisely because the interoperability hype is total bull.

 What has happened is that unknowledgable people have confused the WiMAX 
 Forum's efforts re interoperability in 2.5 GHz (limited as even that is) 
 with it being somehow relative to other frequencies like quasi-licensed 3.65 
 GHz.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:45 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 What UBNT has shown is that one can go inexpensive alternatives and make 
 them good products.
 The equivalent in WiMAX is PureWave Networks; their base station can do MIMO 
 and beamforming and doesn't require an ASN-GW, which was the higher CAPEX 
 for a small 802.16e deployment until they came along.

 Being 16e means you can have 10 MHz channels (best there is in the WiMAX 
 world before 20 MHz 16m), MIMO, beamforming and can buy all those cheap 
 asian CPEs instead of the vendor lock-in that happens in 16d.

 http://www.purewavenetworks.com



 Rubens


 On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote:
 802.11 and its MIMO costs are not relevant to WiMAX and its MIMO costs.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:17 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Regular MIMO doesn't have to be expensive, UBNT has proven that.
 More complicated forms of diversity, well, that remains to be seen.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:04 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Indeed MIMO does help through trees according to people I trust, but
 again we default to the but at what cost question. We believe this
 to
 be especially true in more rural deployments.


 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:52 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

 Subchannelization should help penetration a little also.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2010, at 9:43

[WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[David Sovereen]

I think I saw an ad here for Aperto or AirSpan or some other vendor who
had 3.65 GHz gear with $200 SMs for life if you bought a particular
package.  If the company who sent that could re-send it to me off-list,
or if it was on another list and someone here knows what I am talking
about and can send me the e-mail, I'd really appreciate it.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

==

 MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION 

 David Sovereen

 989-837-3790 x 151

 http://www.mercury.net

 




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Jeremie Chism]

Here is what I got

Hi folks,

We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks are
tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP business,
so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the
802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5
GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320
PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately, the
price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated
(3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65 GHz
with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no
minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price.

Because you'll also need base stations to connect to, we are also
offering full sector kits that support over 250 CPE per sector for these
bands for $5000, including PM3000 1U base station, respective frequency
base station radio (BSR), full sector and EMS license, antenna cable,
sync cable and sector antenna of your choice (60, 60 or 120 degree, or
omni). To qualify for this base station pricing, a minimum of 10 CPE
must be included per base station. There are no hidden items; these
all-in-one full sector kits.

This promotion runs from this week to April 15, but because we know you
need firm pricing for CAPEX planning, we will extend a price guarantee
at these prices to any WISP who buys at least 5 sector kits by April 15.

What does this get you?

-One low price and you tailor your package to fit your need.
oAll-in-one 3.65 or 5.8 GHz carrier class WiMAX sector (excludes
75 ohm LMR 400).
oReduce your CAPEX permanently. Reduce your OPEX dramatically
compared to Wi-Fi.
oWiMAX at near Wi-Fi pricing with price protection with purchase
of 5 or more sectors.
oYou choose any combination of N type or various integrated
antenna CPE options.
oYou choose 60, 90, 120 degree sector options - or even an omni.
oLowest total cost of ownership solution that can support over
250 CPE/sector (really).
oUSDA RUS Accepted, globally-proven and built by 802.16 and WiMAX
pioneer Aperto.
oMonitor and manage thousands of CPE with included WaveCenter EMS
and all licenses (server not included).

-Technically advanced. Field proven. Feature rich, yet easy to
deploy.
oBuilt-in sync with cascaded local sectors; 7 MHz channels
minimizes noise exposure.
o20 mbps/sector net, even with full QoS and WiMAX service flows
implemented.
oSupports scaled toll quality voice concurrent with data and/or
video.
oConfigurable symmetric or asymmetry up to 70:30 in either
direction.
oAuto set  forget or manual provisioning; Internet-based CPE
management.
oAutomatic dynamic power control, ARQ, VLANs, certificate-based
encryption.
oBuilt-in frequency spectrum analyzer.

To order, contact your representative at any of the following authorized
Aperto Networks value-added distributor:
3-db Networks (Colorado)303.376.6828sa...@3-db.net
Crossover Distribution (Ontario)866.616.5111
sa...@crossoverdistribution.com
Double Radius (North Carolina)866.891.3602sa...@doubleradius.com
Wireless Connections (Ohio)419.660.6100
sa...@wirelessconnections.net

For other questions, feel free to contact me directly at
ple...@apertonet.com.

We hope this is a stimulus plan you'll find attractive!

Sincerely,

Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile
ple...@apertonet.com
www.apertonet.com

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:16 PM, David Sovereen david.sover...@mercury.net 
  wrote:

 I think I saw an ad here for Aperto or AirSpan or some other vendor  
 who
 had 3.65 GHz gear with $200 SMs for life if you bought a particular
 package.  If the company who sent that could re-send it to me off- 
 list,
 or if it was on another list and someone here knows what I am talking
 about and can send me the e-mail, I'd really appreciate it.



 Thanks,



 Dave



 ==

 MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION

 David Sovereen

 989-837-3790 x 151

 http://www.mercury.net





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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Glenn Kelley]

Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ?

I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except  
higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far...

I could be wrong - guess its time for an education

anyone know the benefits of WiMax?


What I really want are non wimax on the 3.65 side



On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:19 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:

 Here is what I got

 Hi folks,

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks  
 are
 tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP  
 business,
 so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5
 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320
 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately,  
 the
 price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65  
 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no
 minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price.

 Because you'll also need base stations to connect to, we are also
 offering full sector kits that support over 250 CPE per sector for  
 these
 bands for $5000, including PM3000 1U base station, respective  
 frequency
 base station radio (BSR), full sector and EMS license, antenna cable,
 sync cable and sector antenna of your choice (60, 60 or 120 degree, or
 omni). To qualify for this base station pricing, a minimum of 10 CPE
 must be included per base station. There are no hidden items; these
 all-in-one full sector kits.

 This promotion runs from this week to April 15, but because we know  
 you
 need firm pricing for CAPEX planning, we will extend a price guarantee
 at these prices to any WISP who buys at least 5 sector kits by April  
 15.

 What does this get you?

 -One low price and you tailor your package to fit your need.
 oAll-in-one 3.65 or 5.8 GHz carrier class WiMAX sector (excludes
 75 ohm LMR 400).
 oReduce your CAPEX permanently. Reduce your OPEX dramatically
 compared to Wi-Fi.
 oWiMAX at near Wi-Fi pricing with price protection with purchase
 of 5 or more sectors.
 oYou choose any combination of N type or various integrated
 antenna CPE options.
 oYou choose 60, 90, 120 degree sector options - or even an omni.
 oLowest total cost of ownership solution that can support over
 250 CPE/sector (really).
 oUSDA RUS Accepted, globally-proven and built by 802.16 and WiMAX
 pioneer Aperto.
 oMonitor and manage thousands of CPE with included WaveCenter EMS
 and all licenses (server not included).

 -Technically advanced. Field proven. Feature rich, yet easy to
 deploy.
 oBuilt-in sync with cascaded local sectors; 7 MHz channels
 minimizes noise exposure.
 o20 mbps/sector net, even with full QoS and WiMAX service flows
 implemented.
 oSupports scaled toll quality voice concurrent with data and/or
 video.
 oConfigurable symmetric or asymmetry up to 70:30 in either
 direction.
 oAuto set  forget or manual provisioning; Internet-based CPE
 management.
 oAutomatic dynamic power control, ARQ, VLANs, certificate-based
 encryption.
 oBuilt-in frequency spectrum analyzer.

 To order, contact your representative at any of the following  
 authorized
 Aperto Networks value-added distributor:
 3-db Networks (Colorado)303.376.6828sa...@3-db.net
 Crossover Distribution (Ontario)866.616.5111
 sa...@crossoverdistribution.com
 Double Radius (North Carolina)866.891.3602sa...@doubleradius.com
 Wireless Connections (Ohio)419.660.6100
 sa...@wirelessconnections.net

 For other questions, feel free to contact me directly at
 ple...@apertonet.com.

 We hope this is a stimulus plan you'll find attractive!

 Sincerely,

 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile
 ple...@apertonet.com
 www.apertonet.com

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:16 PM, David Sovereen david.sover...@mercury.net
 wrote:

 I think I saw an ad here for Aperto or AirSpan or some other vendor
 who
 had 3.65 GHz gear with $200 SMs for life if you bought a particular
 package.  If the company who sent that could re-send it to me off-
 list,
 or if it was on another list and someone here knows what I am talking
 about and can send me the e-mail, I'd really appreciate it.



 Thanks,



 Dave



 = 
 =

 MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION

 David Sovereen

 989-837-3790 x 151

 http://www.mercury.net





 ---
 ---
 ---
 ---
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 ---
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 ---
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 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: 

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Jerry Richardson]

The soft licensing ensures that anyone randomly throwing AP's in the air 
without registering will be subject to enforcement by the FCC.

With every AP registered, you will be able to contact other 3.65 operators for 
co-ordination. No guarantees they will co-operate but at least you know who to 
egg on New Years

Jerry

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 6:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ?

I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except
higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far...

I could be wrong - guess its time for an education

anyone know the benefits of WiMax?


What I really want are non wimax on the 3.65 side



On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:19 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:

 Here is what I got

 Hi folks,

 We don't know about you, but we at California-based Aperto Networks
 are
 tired of waiting for stimulus dollars to trickle into the WISP
 business,
 so we are taking matters into our own hands. So Aperto Networks -- the
 802.16 pioneer and WiMAX leader -- is excited to offer the 3.65 and 5
 GHz carrier class and commercial grade (not the residential CPE) PM320
 PacketMAX CPE for only $199 each to the WISP. Effective immediately,
 the
 price applies to all N type CPE in either band and 17 dbi integrated
 (3.65 GHz) and 20 dBi (5 GHz). 5 GHz with integrated 21 dBi and 3.65
 GHz
 with integrated 20 dBi are $220 to the WISP. There are no packs and no
 minimum quantities to get this price -- buy even just one, same price.

 Because you'll also need base stations to connect to, we are also
 offering full sector kits that support over 250 CPE per sector for
 these
 bands for $5000, including PM3000 1U base station, respective
 frequency
 base station radio (BSR), full sector and EMS license, antenna cable,
 sync cable and sector antenna of your choice (60, 60 or 120 degree, or
 omni). To qualify for this base station pricing, a minimum of 10 CPE
 must be included per base station. There are no hidden items; these
 all-in-one full sector kits.

 This promotion runs from this week to April 15, but because we know
 you
 need firm pricing for CAPEX planning, we will extend a price guarantee
 at these prices to any WISP who buys at least 5 sector kits by April
 15.

 What does this get you?

 -One low price and you tailor your package to fit your need.
 oAll-in-one 3.65 or 5.8 GHz carrier class WiMAX sector (excludes
 75 ohm LMR 400).
 oReduce your CAPEX permanently. Reduce your OPEX dramatically
 compared to Wi-Fi.
 oWiMAX at near Wi-Fi pricing with price protection with purchase
 of 5 or more sectors.
 oYou choose any combination of N type or various integrated
 antenna CPE options.
 oYou choose 60, 90, 120 degree sector options - or even an omni.
 oLowest total cost of ownership solution that can support over
 250 CPE/sector (really).
 oUSDA RUS Accepted, globally-proven and built by 802.16 and WiMAX
 pioneer Aperto.
 oMonitor and manage thousands of CPE with included WaveCenter EMS
 and all licenses (server not included).

 -Technically advanced. Field proven. Feature rich, yet easy to
 deploy.
 oBuilt-in sync with cascaded local sectors; 7 MHz channels
 minimizes noise exposure.
 o20 mbps/sector net, even with full QoS and WiMAX service flows
 implemented.
 oSupports scaled toll quality voice concurrent with data and/or
 video.
 oConfigurable symmetric or asymmetry up to 70:30 in either
 direction.
 oAuto set  forget or manual provisioning; Internet-based CPE
 management.
 oAutomatic dynamic power control, ARQ, VLANs, certificate-based
 encryption.
 oBuilt-in frequency spectrum analyzer.

 To order, contact your representative at any of the following
 authorized
 Aperto Networks value-added distributor:
 3-db Networks (Colorado)303.376.6828sa...@3-db.net
 Crossover Distribution (Ontario)866.616.5111
 sa...@crossoverdistribution.com
 Double Radius (North Carolina)866.891.3602sa...@doubleradius.com
 Wireless Connections (Ohio)419.660.6100
 sa...@wirelessconnections.net

 For other questions, feel free to contact me directly at
 ple...@apertonet.com.

 We hope this is a stimulus plan you'll find attractive!

 Sincerely,

 Patrick Leary
 Aperto Networks
 813.426.4230 mobile
 ple...@apertonet.com
 www.apertonet.com

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:16 PM, David Sovereen david.sover...@mercury.net
 wrote:

 I think I saw an ad here for Aperto or AirSpan or some other vendor
 who
 had 3.65 GHz gear with $200 SMs for life if you bought a particular
 package.  If the company who sent that could re-send it to me off-
 list,
 or if it was on another list and someone here knows what I am talking
 about and can send me the e-mail, I'd really appreciate it.



 Thanks,



 Dave

Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 2010-03-17 at 21:07 -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote: 
 Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ?

Sold on...not me.  Recognize that there ARE some benefits...YES!

 I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except  
 higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far...
 
 I could be wrong - guess its time for an education
 
 anyone know the benefits of WiMax?

I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are
a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple
polling or tdma approaches.  First thing to remember is that WiMAX was
designed specifically for the way we use our networks.  That is, outdoor
where we will see noise AND where all stations to not see each other.
There were a number of issues that WiMAX addresses revolving those 2
issues specifically.

Secondly, WiMAX has built in QOS on the air interface.  That is HUGE.
The ability to have true QOS on that part of the network where protocols
that need the least latency will get it, regardless of where they fit in
the polling order as it were.  The details here are astonishing and
worth reading if you truly have an interest in answering the question
why should I be interested in WiMAX.  

Having pointed out just one or two of the many benefits of WiMAX, I will
say that I am not completely convinced that it is the cat's meow.  There
are a number of networks that do not need these benefits, given the
cost.  I won't reopen the good enough network argument, but the fact
is that for many of us (most perhaps), polling or tdma is sufficient for
the networks that we run and the cost of WiMAX makes it such that the
cost is greater than the value.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Glenn Kelley]

well put

kinda where we are -  it makes sense perhaps in some places just not  
convinced ours is one of them

... yet ...

:-)



On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Butch Evans wrote:

 On Wed, 2010-03-17 at 21:07 -0400, Glenn Kelley wrote:
 Is any one here actually sold on WiMax ?

 Sold on...not me.  Recognize that there ARE some benefits...YES!

 I am not sure what this gives us over say ... a Fixed system except
 higher pricing for equipment and a product that does not go as far...

 I could be wrong - guess its time for an education

 anyone know the benefits of WiMax?

 I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there  
 are
 a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than  
 simple
 polling or tdma approaches.  First thing to remember is that WiMAX was
 designed specifically for the way we use our networks.  That is,  
 outdoor
 where we will see noise AND where all stations to not see each other.
 There were a number of issues that WiMAX addresses revolving those 2
 issues specifically.

 Secondly, WiMAX has built in QOS on the air interface.  That is HUGE.
 The ability to have true QOS on that part of the network where  
 protocols
 that need the least latency will get it, regardless of where they  
 fit in
 the polling order as it were.  The details here are astonishing and
 worth reading if you truly have an interest in answering the question
 why should I be interested in WiMAX.

 Having pointed out just one or two of the many benefits of WiMAX, I  
 will
 say that I am not completely convinced that it is the cat's meow.   
 There
 are a number of networks that do not need these benefits, given the
 cost.  I won't reopen the good enough network argument, but the fact
 is that for many of us (most perhaps), polling or tdma is sufficient  
 for
 the networks that we run and the cost of WiMAX makes it such that the
 cost is greater than the value.

 -- 
 
 * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
 * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
 * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
 * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *
 



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Rubens Kuhl]

 anyone know the benefits of WiMax?

 I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there are
 a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than simple
 polling or tdma approaches.

After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more
with Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks.
But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed
from current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is
usually available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or
10 MHz channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G
and now has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel, even a
high goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands
and we ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios.

My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application besides
Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet
access for mobile devices (including public safety and first
responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other
technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010.

4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and see.


Rubens



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz WiMAX deal

[Jeremie Chism]

I have a small wimax deployment with 20 subs and 130 phone lines and I  
wouldn't change a thing. All business customers with very high quality  
voip. I section all the voip traffic out with ugs and leave the  
Internet as best effort to guarantee service levels. All my subs can  
easily get 5-6 megs upload which is far better than dsl or cable.  And  
the best part is you set it and it is the same every day. All units  
keep the highest modulation (qam 64 3/4). If you do have one unit that  
has a week signal it really has no effect on the overall system. There  
are many other benefits but that is a few off the top of my head.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2010, at 9:22 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote:

 anyone know the benefits of WiMax?

 I will leave most of the sales guys that man these lists, but there  
 are
 a number of benefits to WiMAX that make it a better solution than  
 simple
 polling or tdma approaches.

 After working some years in a WiMAX operator I couldn't agree more
 with Butch. The technology is incredibly good for outdoor networks.
 But besides better pricing (CPE, BS, spectrum), one thing I missed
 from current WiMAX technology was large channel size. Fixed WiMAX is
 usually available with 3.5 or 7 MHz channels; mobile WiMAX with 5 or
 10 MHz channels. Wi-Fi already had non-standard 40 MHz with Turbo A/G
 and now has 40 MHz standard with 802.11n. With a small channel, even a
 high goodput/Hz couldn't go very far coping with increasing demands
 and we ended up installing unlicensed spectrum radios.

 My current mindset is that WiMAX is good for every application besides
 Internet access for computers. Surveillance, telephony and Internet
 access for mobile devices (including public safety and first
 responders) are all applications that WiMAX would edge out any other
 technology available on the market, as of Q1CY2010.

 4G WiMAX (802.16m) might change that, I don't know. Will wait and see.


 Rubens


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 --- 
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 --- 
 
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 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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[WISPA] 3.65 BS

[Bob Moldashel]

What is the issue?  Is it the cost factor??  Are they being schmucks???  
What is it.

The Commission Part 25.256 states that the earth station _must 
negotiate_ in good faith with the terrestrial licensee (thats you) to 
arrive at _mutually agreeable_ operating _parameters_ to prevent 
unacceptable interference

It does not say you need to pay their engineering firm bocu dollars 
every time you want to put up a base station.  The rules explicitly say 
that they need to come up with operating PARAMETERS not procedures.  
They can't say you need to have their cousin Mikey do the engineering 
study and you pay them $3000 each time you want to do it and then they 
will approve each individual engineering study.  It says they have to 
come up with a set of operating parameters not procedures. Tell them 
you need a set of operating parameters to ensure that you don't 
interfere with them.

And they can't ignore you.  The Commission states they must negotiate 
with you. Document all your correspondence in writing, certified mail 
and build a case.  When they fail to respond appropriately you can 
submit your own engineering study and request the Commission make a 
determination at that point. They can't just ignore you or make your 
life miserable or cost prohibitive to do business. 

So again...what are the issues???

-B-






Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 Yeppers.  I've not been able to work with them either.  I've finally given 
 up hoping that the FCC will shrink the exclusion zones.
 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
 To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?


   
 lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:
 
 Never say never.  Maybe if you are right next to their site but I am 
 pretty confident that you can get a site approved with the right 
 engineering study and maybe a waiver request.  Depends on how bad you 
 want it

 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

   
 Yes it does depend on how bad you want it.  I don't want it bad enough
 to have to pay  for each customer location have to be approved on a case
 by case basis by Comtrain as per their demands.

 Ask Marlon about these clowns.

 I'm 143km from them and I have four, 5000+  foot ridge lines / mountain
 ranges between us.  Not to mention my base stations are pointed away
 from them.



























 
 -Original Message-
 From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:11:27
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

 If you are in an exclusion zone with SES Americom you can count on never
 as far as being able to deploy WiMax.


 ralphlists wrote:

   
 It is a new nationwide license. But I'm also interested in the time 
 frame
 for the base station registration as well.

 It's not me. It is for a friend.
 My nationwide license took 4 months, but that was back when they first 
 came
 out.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Randy Cosby
 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:58 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

 Are you applying for a license, or a new location on an existing 
 license?



 On 3/9/2010 8:53 AM, ralphlists wrote:


 
 How long is the FCC taking these days for a new license?


 Thanks






   
 
 


 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 BS

[Josh Luthman]

In good faith is legal speak for waste of time.

On 3/9/10, Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:
 What is the issue?  Is it the cost factor??  Are they being schmucks???
 What is it.

 The Commission Part 25.256 states that the earth station _must
 negotiate_ in good faith with the terrestrial licensee (thats you) to
 arrive at _mutually agreeable_ operating _parameters_ to prevent
 unacceptable interference

 It does not say you need to pay their engineering firm bocu dollars
 every time you want to put up a base station.  The rules explicitly say
 that they need to come up with operating PARAMETERS not procedures.
 They can't say you need to have their cousin Mikey do the engineering
 study and you pay them $3000 each time you want to do it and then they
 will approve each individual engineering study.  It says they have to
 come up with a set of operating parameters not procedures. Tell them
 you need a set of operating parameters to ensure that you don't
 interfere with them.

 And they can't ignore you.  The Commission states they must negotiate
 with you. Document all your correspondence in writing, certified mail
 and build a case.  When they fail to respond appropriately you can
 submit your own engineering study and request the Commission make a
 determination at that point. They can't just ignore you or make your
 life miserable or cost prohibitive to do business.

 So again...what are the issues???

 -B-






 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 Yeppers.  I've not been able to work with them either.  I've finally given

 up hoping that the FCC will shrink the exclusion zones.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
 To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?



 lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:

 Never say never.  Maybe if you are right next to their site but I am
 pretty confident that you can get a site approved with the right
 engineering study and maybe a waiver request.  Depends on how bad you
 want it

 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


 Yes it does depend on how bad you want it.  I don't want it bad enough
 to have to pay  for each customer location have to be approved on a case
 by case basis by Comtrain as per their demands.

 Ask Marlon about these clowns.

 I'm 143km from them and I have four, 5000+  foot ridge lines / mountain
 ranges between us.  Not to mention my base stations are pointed away
 from them.




























 -Original Message-
 From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:11:27
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

 If you are in an exclusion zone with SES Americom you can count on never
 as far as being able to deploy WiMax.


 ralphlists wrote:


 It is a new nationwide license. But I'm also interested in the time
 frame
 for the base station registration as well.

 It's not me. It is for a friend.
 My nationwide license took 4 months, but that was back when they first
 came
 out.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Randy Cosby
 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:58 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

 Are you applying for a license, or a new location on an existing
 license?



 On 3/9/2010 8:53 AM, ralphlists wrote:



 How long is the FCC taking these days for a new license?


 Thanks







 
 



 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 
 



 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 BS

[Leon D. Zetekoff]

On 3/9/2010 2:35 PM, Bob Moldashel wrote:

What is the issue?  Is it the cost factor??  Are they being schmucks???
What is it.

The Commission Part 25.256 states that the earth station _must
negotiate_ in good faith with the terrestrial licensee (thats you) to
arrive at _mutually agreeable_ operating _parameters_ to prevent
unacceptable interference

It does not say you need to pay their engineering firm bocu dollars
every time you want to put up a base station.  The rules explicitly say
that they need to come up with operating PARAMETERS not procedures.
They can't say you need to have their cousin Mikey do the engineering
study and you pay them $3000 each time you want to do it and then they
will approve each individual engineering study.  It says they have to
come up with a set of operating parameters not procedures. Tell them
you need a set of operating parameters to ensure that you don't
interfere with them.

And they can't ignore you.  The Commission states they must negotiate
with you. Document all your correspondence in writing, certified mail
and build a case.  When they fail to respond appropriately you can
submit your own engineering study and request the Commission make a
determination at that point. They can't just ignore you or make your
life miserable or cost prohibitive to do business.

So again...what are the issues???
   

Hi Bob...

You are right but it like going up against Goliath. When I was working 
for a WiSP in NoVA two years ago I was working on this and had to deal 
with Comsearch. At that point in time, I found out a ways through it 
they did one and at the outset they quoted me some gargantuan price. I 
said no way Jose. They eventually came back with a cheaper price which 
was more reasonable. They (the earth stations) were looking to have 
every location approved. THen a few months later Comsearch pulled the 
plug on them doing the engineering work. Last year they then put up this 
website


http://www.comsearch.com/interactive_solutions/3650MHz_Quick_Look/overview.jsp

so it seems they are back in that biz again.

I have to go back through my files (I moved last April and haven't 
unpacked my office yet) and see who was the one company that was at 
least cordial to us.


The Commission is going to have to do better than what they did. I was 
going to originally do my testing in the Amateur 3.5 band down there but 
then I left and now here at PAETEC. Doing testing in the amateur band 
would have been ok since I am a licensee and I would have put my 
callsign in the SSID for id purposes.


73 Leon WA4ZLW
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2732 - Release Date: 03/09/10 
02:33:00



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 BS

[Blair Davis]

is there a map of the exclusion zones?

Bob Moldashel wrote:

  What is the issue?  Is it the cost factor??  Are they being schmucks???  
What is it.

The Commission Part 25.256 states that the earth station "_must 
negotiate_ in good faith with the terrestrial licensee (thats you) to 
arrive at _mutually agreeable_ operating _parameters_ to prevent 
unacceptable interference"

It does not say you need to pay their engineering firm bocu dollars 
every time you want to put up a base station.  The rules explicitly say 
that they need to come up with operating PARAMETERS not procedures.  
They can't say you need to have their cousin "Mikey" do the engineering 
study and you pay them $3000 each time you want to do it and then they 
will approve each individual engineering study.  It says they have to 
come up with a set of operating "parameters" not procedures. Tell them 
you need a set of operating parameters to ensure that you don't 
interfere with them.

And they can't ignore you.  The Commission states they "must" negotiate 
with you. Document all your correspondence in writing, certified mail 
and build a case.  When they fail to respond appropriately you can 
submit your own engineering study and request the Commission make a 
determination at that point. They can't just ignore you or make your 
life miserable or cost prohibitive to do business. 

So again...what are the issues???

-B-






Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
  
  
Yeppers.  I've not been able to work with them either.  I've finally given 
up hoping that the FCC will shrink the exclusion zones.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Pat O'Connor" p...@inlandnet.com
To: lakel...@gbcx.net; "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?


  


  lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:

  
  
Never say never.  Maybe if you are right next to their site but I am 
pretty confident that you can get a site approved with the right 
engineering study and maybe a waiver request.  Depends on how bad you 
want it

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

  

  
  Yes it does depend on how bad you want it.  I don't want it bad enough
to have to pay  for each customer location have to be approved on a case
by case basis by Comtrain as per their demands.

Ask Marlon about these clowns.

I'm 143km from them and I have four, 5000+  foot ridge lines / mountain
ranges between us.  Not to mention my base stations are pointed away
from them.




























  
  
-Original Message-
From: "Pat O'Connor" p...@inlandnet.com
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:11:27
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

If you are in an exclusion zone with SES Americom you can count on never
as far as being able to deploy WiMax.


ralphlists wrote:

  


  It is a new nationwide license. But I'm also interested in the time 
frame
for the base station registration as well.

It's not me. It is for a friend.
My nationwide license took 4 months, but that was back when they first 
came
out.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

Are you applying for a license, or a new location on an existing 
license?



On 3/9/2010 8:53 AM, ralphlists wrote:



  
  
How long is the FCC taking these days for a new license?


Thanks






  

  
  




  
  
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



  

  
  




  
  
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 BS

[Josh Luthman]

There is a really good Google Earth one I've seen.  Did you Google them?

On 3/9/10, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote:
 is there a map of the exclusion zones?

 Bob Moldashel wrote:

 What is the issue?  Is it the cost factor??  Are they being schmucks???
 What is it.

 The Commission Part 25.256 states that the earth station _must
 negotiate_ in good faith with the terrestrial licensee (thats you) to
 arrive at _mutually agreeable_ operating _parameters_ to prevent
 unacceptable interference

 It does not say you need to pay their engineering firm bocu dollars
 every time you want to put up a base station.  The rules explicitly say
 that they need to come up with operating PARAMETERS not procedures.
 They can't say you need to have their cousin Mikey do the engineering
 study and you pay them $3000 each time you want to do it and then they
 will approve each individual engineering study.  It says they have to
 come up with a set of operating parameters not procedures. Tell them
 you need a set of operating parameters to ensure that you don't
 interfere with them.

 And they can't ignore you.  The Commission states they must negotiate
 with you. Document all your correspondence in writing, certified mail
 and build a case.  When they fail to respond appropriately you can
 submit your own engineering study and request the Commission make a
 determination at that point. They can't just ignore you or make your
 life miserable or cost prohibitive to do business.

 So again...what are the issues???

 -B-






 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


 Yeppers.  I've not been able to work with them either.  I've finally
 given
 up hoping that the FCC will shrink the exclusion zones.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
 To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?





 lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:



 Never say never.  Maybe if you are right next to their site but I am
 pretty confident that you can get a site approved with the right
 engineering study and maybe a waiver request.  Depends on how bad you
 want it

 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




 Yes it does depend on how bad you want it.  I don't want it bad enough
 to have to pay  for each customer location have to be approved on a case
 by case basis by Comtrain as per their demands.

 Ask Marlon about these clowns.

 I'm 143km from them and I have four, 5000+  foot ridge lines / mountain
 ranges between us.  Not to mention my base stations are pointed away
 from them.






























 -Original Message-
 From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:11:27
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

 If you are in an exclusion zone with SES Americom you can count on
 never
 as far as being able to deploy WiMax.


 ralphlists wrote:




 It is a new nationwide license. But I'm also interested in the time
 frame
 for the base station registration as well.

 It's not me. It is for a friend.
 My nationwide license took 4 months, but that was back when they first

 came
 out.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Randy Cosby
 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:58 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

 Are you applying for a license, or a new location on an existing
 license?



 On 3/9/2010 8:53 AM, ralphlists wrote:





 How long is the FCC taking these days for a new license?


 Thanks









 
 





 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/






 
 





 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 BS

[Mike Hammett]

JFGIhttp://spectrumgenie.com/esmap.asp


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




From: Blair Davis 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 4:17 PM
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 BS


is there a map of the exclusion zones?

Bob Moldashel wrote: 
What is the issue?  Is it the cost factor??  Are they being schmucks???  
What is it.

The Commission Part 25.256 states that the earth station _must 
negotiate_ in good faith with the terrestrial licensee (thats you) to 
arrive at _mutually agreeable_ operating _parameters_ to prevent 
unacceptable interference

It does not say you need to pay their engineering firm bocu dollars 
every time you want to put up a base station.  The rules explicitly say 
that they need to come up with operating PARAMETERS not procedures.  
They can't say you need to have their cousin Mikey do the engineering 
study and you pay them $3000 each time you want to do it and then they 
will approve each individual engineering study.  It says they have to 
come up with a set of operating parameters not procedures. Tell them 
you need a set of operating parameters to ensure that you don't 
interfere with them.

And they can't ignore you.  The Commission states they must negotiate 
with you. Document all your correspondence in writing, certified mail 
and build a case.  When they fail to respond appropriately you can 
submit your own engineering study and request the Commission make a 
determination at that point. They can't just ignore you or make your 
life miserable or cost prohibitive to do business. 

So again...what are the issues???

-B-






Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
  Yeppers.  I've not been able to work with them either.  I've finally given 
up hoping that the FCC will shrink the exclusion zones.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?


  
lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:

  Never say never.  Maybe if you are right next to their site but I am 
pretty confident that you can get a site approved with the right 
engineering study and maybe a waiver request.  Depends on how bad you 
want it

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

  
Yes it does depend on how bad you want it.  I don't want it bad enough
to have to pay  for each customer location have to be approved on a case
by case basis by Comtrain as per their demands.

Ask Marlon about these clowns.

I'm 143km from them and I have four, 5000+  foot ridge lines / mountain
ranges between us.  Not to mention my base stations are pointed away
from them.




























  -Original Message-
From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:11:27
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

If you are in an exclusion zone with SES Americom you can count on never
as far as being able to deploy WiMax.


ralphlists wrote:

  
It is a new nationwide license. But I'm also interested in the time 
frame
for the base station registration as well.

It's not me. It is for a friend.
My nationwide license took 4 months, but that was back when they first 
came
out.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

Are you applying for a license, or a new location on an existing 
license?



On 3/9/2010 8:53 AM, ralphlists wrote:



  How long is the FCC taking these days for a new license?


Thanks






  






  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



  






  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 BS

[Blair Davis]

Yes, I did.  did not find anything thru google, but a buddy of mine
pointed me at this

http://zing.naviciti.com/



Josh Luthman wrote:

  There is a really good Google Earth one I've seen.  Did you Google them?

On 3/9/10, Blair Davis the...@wmwisp.net wrote:
  
  
is there a map of the exclusion zones?

Bob Moldashel wrote:


  What is the issue?  Is it the cost factor??  Are they being schmucks???
What is it.

The Commission Part 25.256 states that the earth station "_must
negotiate_ in good faith with the terrestrial licensee (thats you) to
arrive at _mutually agreeable_ operating _parameters_ to prevent
unacceptable interference"

It does not say you need to pay their engineering firm bocu dollars
every time you want to put up a base station.  The rules explicitly say
that they need to come up with operating PARAMETERS not procedures.
They can't say you need to have their cousin "Mikey" do the engineering
study and you pay them $3000 each time you want to do it and then they
will approve each individual engineering study.  It says they have to
come up with a set of operating "parameters" not procedures. Tell them
you need a set of operating parameters to ensure that you don't
interfere with them.

And they can't ignore you.  The Commission states they "must" negotiate
with you. Document all your correspondence in writing, certified mail
and build a case.  When they fail to respond appropriately you can
submit your own engineering study and request the Commission make a
determination at that point. They can't just ignore you or make your
life miserable or cost prohibitive to do business.

So again...what are the issues???

-B-






Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

  
  
Yeppers.  I've not been able to work with them either.  I've finally
given
up hoping that the FCC will shrink the exclusion zones.
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Pat O'Connor" p...@inlandnet.com
To: lakel...@gbcx.net; "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?






  lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:


  
  
Never say never.  Maybe if you are right next to their site but I am
pretty confident that you can get a site approved with the right
engineering study and maybe a waiver request.  Depends on how bad you
want it

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




  
  Yes it does depend on how bad you want it.  I don't want it bad enough
to have to pay  for each customer location have to be approved on a case
by case basis by Comtrain as per their demands.

Ask Marlon about these clowns.

I'm 143km from them and I have four, 5000+  foot ridge lines / mountain
ranges between us.  Not to mention my base stations are pointed away
from them.





























  
  
-Original Message-
From: "Pat O'Connor" p...@inlandnet.com
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:11:27
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

If you are in an exclusion zone with SES Americom you can count on
never
as far as being able to deploy WiMax.


ralphlists wrote:





  It is a new nationwide license. But I'm also interested in the time
frame
for the base station registration as well.

It's not me. It is for a friend.
My nationwide license took 4 months, but that was back when they first

came
out.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

Are you applying for a license, or a new location on an existing
license?



On 3/9/2010 8:53 AM, ralphlists wrote:




  
  
How long is the FCC taking these days for a new license?


Thanks









  
  





  
  
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/






  
  





  
  
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






  
  

  


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 BS

[RickG]

Everything goes smoothly if you have a good FCC lawyer in DC! Of
course, thats big bucks too! I know one if you need him.
Alternatively, go to your local congressman.
I've done both of these and it really works.
-RickG

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:
 What is the issue?  Is it the cost factor??  Are they being schmucks???
 What is it.

 The Commission Part 25.256 states that the earth station _must
 negotiate_ in good faith with the terrestrial licensee (thats you) to
 arrive at _mutually agreeable_ operating _parameters_ to prevent
 unacceptable interference

 It does not say you need to pay their engineering firm bocu dollars
 every time you want to put up a base station.  The rules explicitly say
 that they need to come up with operating PARAMETERS not procedures.
 They can't say you need to have their cousin Mikey do the engineering
 study and you pay them $3000 each time you want to do it and then they
 will approve each individual engineering study.  It says they have to
 come up with a set of operating parameters not procedures. Tell them
 you need a set of operating parameters to ensure that you don't
 interfere with them.

 And they can't ignore you.  The Commission states they must negotiate
 with you. Document all your correspondence in writing, certified mail
 and build a case.  When they fail to respond appropriately you can
 submit your own engineering study and request the Commission make a
 determination at that point. They can't just ignore you or make your
 life miserable or cost prohibitive to do business.

 So again...what are the issues???

 -B-






 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 Yeppers.  I've not been able to work with them either.  I've finally given
 up hoping that the FCC will shrink the exclusion zones.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
 To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?



 lakel...@gbcx.net wrote:

 Never say never.  Maybe if you are right next to their site but I am
 pretty confident that you can get a site approved with the right
 engineering study and maybe a waiver request.  Depends on how bad you
 want it

 -B-
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


 Yes it does depend on how bad you want it.  I don't want it bad enough
 to have to pay  for each customer location have to be approved on a case
 by case basis by Comtrain as per their demands.

 Ask Marlon about these clowns.

 I'm 143km from them and I have four, 5000+  foot ridge lines / mountain
 ranges between us.  Not to mention my base stations are pointed away
 from them.




























 -Original Message-
 From: Pat O'Connor p...@inlandnet.com
 Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:11:27
 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

 If you are in an exclusion zone with SES Americom you can count on never
 as far as being able to deploy WiMax.


 ralphlists wrote:


 It is a new nationwide license. But I'm also interested in the time
 frame
 for the base station registration as well.

 It's not me. It is for a friend.
 My nationwide license took 4 months, but that was back when they first
 came
 out.


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Randy Cosby
 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:58 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Anyone gotten a 3.65 license lately?

 Are you applying for a license, or a new location on an existing
 license?



 On 3/9/2010 8:53 AM, ralphlists wrote:



 How long is the FCC taking these days for a new license?


 Thanks







 
 



 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 
 



 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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[WISPA] 3.65 options for PtP

[rwf]

I need to do a lot (20+) very short distance links in a medium sized city
that has a highly RF polluted environment.

5.x GHz isn't an option.

 

Is there a CERTIFIED product that uses the Ubiquiti 3.65  card that would
give me some reasonably priced bridges?

I don't know if there is anything else in that price range, and it looks
like most other 3.65 links are going to cost 1500.00+ 

 

Ralph

 

 




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 options for PtP

[MDK]

Absolutely.

Your choice of WAR boards, running Star-OS, inside of the Arc Wireless 
universal enclosure, attached to an 18 db arc wireless panel.

That IS the certified antenna, and the FCC happily accepts licensing these 
links (I know by experience).

Total cost for both ends varies from almost exactly 800 to nearly 1100 
depending on how you mount, which cpu board you use, etc, etc.The WAR 1 
board is only sufficient for about 800 - 900KB throughput, whereupon the 
latency begins to climb.Higher power cpu's will give you more 
throughput.I don't know the precise maximum throughput under ideal 
conditions.



--
From: rwf r...@bsrg.org
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:01 PM
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 options for PtP

 I need to do a lot (20+) very short distance links in a medium sized city
 that has a highly RF polluted environment.

 5.x GHz isn't an option.



 Is there a CERTIFIED product that uses the Ubiquiti 3.65  card that would
 give me some reasonably priced bridges?

 I don't know if there is anything else in that price range, and it looks
 like most other 3.65 links are going to cost 1500.00+



 Ralph







 
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[WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes

[Kevin Suitor]

To list members:

Yesterday, Redline hosted a conference call with 15 operator participants to 
kick off a coalition of operators who have deployed or plan to deploy broadband 
wireless systems in the 3.65 GHz band in the US, with the goal to discuss the 
current license exempt rules, some of the coexistence issues being experienced 
in the field, suggestions for improvements/resolution, and the necessary steps 
to influence change within the FCC. 

I encourage any interested operators (or vendors) to contact Keith Doucet, 
Redline's VP Customer Advocacy (kdou...@redlinecommunications.com or 
+1.905.479.8344 x2298).  Keith has participated in the rule setting for the 
3.65 GHz band in Canada and has extensive experience in working with regulators 
internationally.

Keith plans on hosting a follow-up call next week on this topic.

Thanks,
Kevin
 

Redline Communications Inc.
Kevin Suitor
Vice President, Corporate Marketing
302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA
o: +1 905.948.2299 f: +1 647.723.0451 m: +1 416.508.1252
Skype:   ksuitor
e-mail:   ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Web: www.redlinecommunications.com

 






 


 
Advancing Broadband Wireless - Putting WiMAX in Motion
  Think green before printing this email



IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual 
or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain information that is 
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If 
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or 
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is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, 
please notify Redline immediately by email at 
postmas...@redlinecommunications.com. 

Thank you. 





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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes

[Mike Hammett]

Has anyone put forth a serious effort to develop the mechanism they call 
for, or have people seriously tried, and just been rejected without just 
reasoning?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Kevin Suitor ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:39 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; WISPA Members BTOP-BIP List 
btop-...@wispa.org
Cc: Keith Doucet kdou...@redlinecommunications.com
Subject: [WISPA] 3.65 GHz Coalition to approach FCC for rule changes

 To list members:

 Yesterday, Redline hosted a conference call with 15 operator participants 
 to kick off a coalition of operators who have deployed or plan to deploy 
 broadband wireless systems in the 3.65 GHz band in the US, with the goal 
 to discuss the current license exempt rules, some of the coexistence 
 issues being experienced in the field, suggestions for 
 improvements/resolution, and the necessary steps to influence change 
 within the FCC.

 I encourage any interested operators (or vendors) to contact Keith Doucet, 
 Redline's VP Customer Advocacy (kdou...@redlinecommunications.com or 
 +1.905.479.8344 x2298).  Keith has participated in the rule setting for 
 the 3.65 GHz band in Canada and has extensive experience in working with 
 regulators internationally.

 Keith plans on hosting a follow-up call next week on this topic.

 Thanks,
 Kevin


 Redline Communications Inc.
 Kevin Suitor
 Vice President, Corporate Marketing
 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA
 o: +1 905.948.2299 f: +1 647.723.0451 m: +1 416.508.1252
 Skype:   ksuitor
 e-mail:   ksui...@redlinecommunications.com
 Web: www.redlinecommunications.com












 Advancing Broadband Wireless - Putting WiMAX in Motion
   Think green before printing this email



 IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the 
 individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain 
 information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure 
 under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended 
 recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message 
 to the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, 
 distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If 
 you have received this communication in error, please notify Redline 
 immediately by email at postmas...@redlinecommunications.com.

 Thank you.




 
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