Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing.
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Tom, When you make the claim that wireless has more uptime than fiber, where do you base those facts from and what types of fiber deployments are you comparing it to? While I believe wireless is a great thing, one has to wonder why a company who's name was MCI (Microwave Communications Incorporated) eventually switched everything to fiber? I helped buy a bunch of their old microwave tower sites after they were decommissioned. They built them for capacity and did everything right. It just seems that eventually the larger WISP's will need to consider the path that MCI took over time and wonder if they won't evolve along a similar path. Now their failure was not due to their choice of fiber over wireless and that's another story altogether. Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Our backbone fiber has been down 2-3 times over 3 years. One time was so that they could upgrade the Fiber Switches, and the other times we were only down a minute or two. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Pierce Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I would agree in a heartbeat...we've actually won customers because of outages with DS3's and T1's that were run on fiber. When the historical ice storm came through New England just over a year ago, we had 100% uptime with our infrastructure while Fairpoint and Comcast was down all over the place including their fiber runs. Stuart Pierce wrote: I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: "Mike Hammett" wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Tom DeReggi" wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.". And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos?" Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix" was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" o...@odessaoffice.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Brian Webster wrote: Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy and you'll have the same uptime. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Exactly. The terms wireless and fiber are too broad to make any valid reliability comparison without more specifics. Comparing a licensed point to point microwave system with redundant paths, spatial diversity, standby power, and a tower structure rated to 150 MPH to an aerial fiber strand running through the woods in northeast ice storm territory would lead one to believe that wireless is the more reliable technology. Comparing a 2.4 GHz 802.11 link with grid antennas shooting some trees in icy territory to a SONET ring connecting two metro area datacenters would lead one to believe that fiber is the more reliable technology. Unfortunately, this distinction is not made by the general public, and it makes the sales process for business grade fixed wireless services more difficult. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Bret Clark wrote: Brian Webster wrote: Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy and you'll have the same uptime. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Agreed, Patrick. As a business only provider many of our customers that bring in a 10-50-100Mbps or higher microwave connection in from us are doing so to complement their existing fiber connection(s). As time progresses some of those customers end up favoring our microwave connection over their fiber connection. Sometimes it's because we're better peered and have fewer hops or lower latency other times it's simply because we have fewer points of failure and therefore our availability is higher. It all comes back to those three ever important sticking points: Location - Location - Location Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Exactly. The terms wireless and fiber are too broad to make any valid reliability comparison without more specifics. Comparing a licensed point to point microwave system with redundant paths, spatial diversity, standby power, and a tower structure rated to 150 MPH to an aerial fiber strand running through the woods in northeast ice storm territory would lead one to believe that wireless is the more reliable technology. Comparing a 2.4 GHz 802.11 link with grid antennas shooting some trees in icy territory to a SONET ring connecting two metro area datacenters would lead one to believe that fiber is the more reliable technology. Unfortunately, this distinction is not made by the general public, and it makes the sales process for business grade fixed wireless services more difficult. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Bret Clark wrote: Brian Webster wrote: Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy and you'll have the same uptime. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Let me clarify. I'm referring to Metro-E deployment. I'm not refering to the physical medium glass filled wire, which of course has a huge long reliable life. Metro-E typically runs from commercial building to commercial building. Each Hop is a potential failure point. Metro-E tends to be a Sequential or In-Series deployment, where there are many potential failure points between Start and End Point of a desired link. Most Metro-E Deployments whether Layer3 or Layer2, tend to terminate everything at the end of the line at a central place, so there is often much shared infrastructure on the way to the far end.infrastructure. The fact that Fiber can extend in 20-40 mile incrememnts without power is irrelevent when its most cost viable for Metro-E providers to stop at each building along the path on the way. What Fiber Providers cant control (no better than us), is the rules and decissions Building Owners need to make to maintain their building and power. For example, recently, there was a water leak in a building, the Building protocol was Turn off power to the electrical rooms in the building until leak fixed. The building owner could care less that the Fiber infrastructure would be turned off, becaue they had a bigger responsibility to the maintenance and safety of their Half-Billion dollar commercial office building. So, Fiber routers got powered off and service went down. These type things happen ALL the time. At one building, it might only happen 2-3 times over 5 years, but multiply that times 20 buildings in-line path, and that becomes 40-60 outages in 5 years. With Wireless PTP, we tend to go longer distances before a hop is incurred, and minimizing the number of buildings in-line that could have an effect on whether we had power or not to our gear. If we compare RF to Light, the difference in uptiem by technology isavery insignificant amount even if Fiber better. But if we compare deployment its not so insignificant to compare wireless with 2-3 buildings inline to fiber 10-20 buildings inline. The fact is, fiber does have the ability to deploy redundant technology, but so does Wireless. And Fiber carriers bypass redundancy in many cases for the same reasons Wireless carriers do, to reduce cost, add simplicity for maintenance, and capacity planning/control. What you see happening is Fiber carriers using one fiber strand, and then putting EVERYTHING on that one strand of Fiber. They do this because they often dont own the fiber, and have to buy Dark Fiber, and they pay per strand. Fiber deployments are not automatically redundant as much as people think, when considering all networking components. For example, LAyer2, Layer3, OSPF, and BGP all have to function both waysacross all redundant paths for all customers. When there are one or two hops inline with Wireless, its so much easier and less disruptive to verify and test that redundancy doesactually work in a failure situatuation. With Fiber carriers it is to risky to test redundant configs because to many people are sharing the infrastructure and it crosses so many hops. The Fiber carriers make config mistakes. And when they share so much infrastructure, its easy to harm another customer's config, when configuring new customers. I can not give national data for all carriers deployment. BUT from our experience on our network the most reliable network components are our wireless PTP links. The largest cause is Power. One of the reasons we did not increase the uptime of our wireless towers fed by fiber was that it did no good to have power systems that gave uptimes larger than the uptime delivered by our fiber carrier's power systems. The truth is batteries fail, and nobody knows it until a failure occurs, and the 4 hour uptimes doesn't occur. The more buildings inline, the more chances one of the buildings inline is effected by a power outage somewhere. The number we use is that when one of our end users experiences an outage it is 4x more likely it is from a fiber related outage, not from our Metro Wireless back haul. I'll give a real world example, We provide wholesale to a WISP in DC. I'm estimating that they had near 8 outages in two years if not more, and all were related to fiber. The DragonWave wireless link and Tlink-45 inline serving them the last mile has not failed once in the same time. Sure I'll agree that Long Haul Fiber is likely more reliable, because it is built to be. But Metro-Fiber and FTTH is not built to that same spec most of the time. One of the bigger mistakes I made is I paid for fiber instead of Licensed links early on. (ACtually it was not a mistake, it was a lack of upfront cash/pitol at the time). I lost a lot of business because I relied on Fiber Metrol Transports, that could not deliver the SLA or Uptime anywhere near the expectations that I set for my Wireless transport network. EVEN my Trango 5830s, I had PTP links that never had a
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
The thing is there are cases or palces where Wireless cant be made reliable for a specific situations that limit that location. People will remember those rare cases and associate them with Wireless in general, without understanding that taht is a different situation and not the norm. People blaim Wireless or the wireless provider for a lot, but its rarely the Wireless's fault. You'd also be surprised how often Sonet Rings wont properly route the other direction around the ring, when a failure occurs, based on the type of failure. The Fiber Ring is a physical redundancy method, but it doesn't mean that the intelligence part over top it will properly direct the traffic. Its also hard to get a fiber carrier to truthfully disclose the full inner workings of their network, for the buyer to verify a claimed redundant path will truly offer full redundancy. The only way to know for sure, and guarantee it wont change over time, is to do it yourself, or work with someone small enough who is not afraid to show the proof. For example, for some of my customers, I'll map out hop per hop the path their data will go both primary and backup path. I'm not saying I give redunancy ever, because there are many places my network is not redundant. But I could built it redundant and PROVE IT, when customers were willing to pay for that. For Fiber,. If I want guaranteed redundant Fiber transport paths, they will charge me for two circuits, double the price. And I could get better diversity if I jsut deployed two wireless links to diverse paths. So To compare reliabilty of Wireless to Fiber, its really only an apples to apples comparison if we compare a single wireless link to a non-redundant single fiber path. For example, a Wireless ring could jsut as equally be created to compare against a Sonet ring. At the end of the day, the only thing Fiber gives us is more capacity when that capacity is actually needed. Unless of course, LOS cant be achieved, or distance to long for the technology. But the worst travisty in public perception is that the public often associates Wireless with the lowest technology capabilty. Fixed PTP wireless should NOT be bundled into the same category as PtMP Wifi. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Exactly. The terms wireless and fiber are too broad to make any valid reliability comparison without more specifics. Comparing a licensed point to point microwave system with redundant paths, spatial diversity, standby power, and a tower structure rated to 150 MPH to an aerial fiber strand running through the woods in northeast ice storm territory would lead one to believe that wireless is the more reliable technology. Comparing a 2.4 GHz 802.11 link with grid antennas shooting some trees in icy territory to a SONET ring connecting two metro area datacenters would lead one to believe that fiber is the more reliable technology. Unfortunately, this distinction is not made by the general public, and it makes the sales process for business grade fixed wireless services more difficult. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Bret Clark wrote: Brian Webster wrote: Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy and you'll have the same uptime. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG.
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Fiber doesn't suffer from interference or have a low number of frequencies you can use at one location. Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Pierce Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account.
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I am planning to have access to fiber throughout an area that's probably 3x to 4x my current coverage area. I'll build my network around that fiber. However, I will retain wireless PtP links for redundancy. That cuts down on the need to consume valuable spectrum for primary backhaul links. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:48 AM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Let me clarify. I'm referring to Metro-E deployment. I'm not refering to the physical medium glass filled wire, which of course has a huge long reliable life. Metro-E typically runs from commercial building to commercial building. Each Hop is a potential failure point. Metro-E tends to be a Sequential or In-Series deployment, where there are many potential failure points between Start and End Point of a desired link. Most Metro-E Deployments whether Layer3 or Layer2, tend to terminate everything at the end of the line at a central place, so there is often much shared infrastructure on the way to the far end.infrastructure. The fact that Fiber can extend in 20-40 mile incrememnts without power is irrelevent when its most cost viable for Metro-E providers to stop at each building along the path on the way. What Fiber Providers cant control (no better than us), is the rules and decissions Building Owners need to make to maintain their building and power. For example, recently, there was a water leak in a building, the Building protocol was Turn off power to the electrical rooms in the building until leak fixed. The building owner could care less that the Fiber infrastructure would be turned off, becaue they had a bigger responsibility to the maintenance and safety of their Half-Billion dollar commercial office building. So, Fiber routers got powered off and service went down. These type things happen ALL the time. At one building, it might only happen 2-3 times over 5 years, but multiply that times 20 buildings in-line path, and that becomes 40-60 outages in 5 years. With Wireless PTP, we tend to go longer distances before a hop is incurred, and minimizing the number of buildings in-line that could have an effect on whether we had power or not to our gear. If we compare RF to Light, the difference in uptiem by technology isavery insignificant amount even if Fiber better. But if we compare deployment its not so insignificant to compare wireless with 2-3 buildings inline to fiber 10-20 buildings inline. The fact is, fiber does have the ability to deploy redundant technology, but so does Wireless. And Fiber carriers bypass redundancy in many cases for the same reasons Wireless carriers do, to reduce cost, add simplicity for maintenance, and capacity planning/control. What you see happening is Fiber carriers using one fiber strand, and then putting EVERYTHING on that one strand of Fiber. They do this because they often dont own the fiber, and have to buy Dark Fiber, and they pay per strand. Fiber deployments are not automatically redundant as much as people think, when considering all networking components. For example, LAyer2, Layer3, OSPF, and BGP all have to function both waysacross all redundant paths for all customers. When there are one or two hops inline with Wireless, its so much easier and less disruptive to verify and test that redundancy doesactually work in a failure situatuation. With Fiber carriers it is to risky to test redundant configs because to many people are sharing the infrastructure and it crosses so many hops. The Fiber carriers make config mistakes. And when they share so much infrastructure, its easy to harm another customer's config, when configuring new customers. I can not give national data for all carriers deployment. BUT from our experience on our network the most reliable network components are our wireless PTP links. The largest cause is Power. One of the reasons we did not increase the uptime of our wireless towers fed by fiber was that it did no good to have power systems that gave uptimes larger than the uptime delivered by our fiber carrier's power systems. The truth is batteries fail, and nobody knows it until a failure occurs, and the 4 hour uptimes doesn't occur. The more buildings inline, the more chances one of the buildings inline is effected by a power outage somewhere. The number we use is that when one of our end users experiences an outage it is 4x more likely it is from a fiber related outage, not from our Metro Wireless back haul. I'll give a real world example, We provide wholesale to a WISP in DC. I'm estimating that they had near 8 outages in two years if not more, and all were related to
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Time Warner does offer an SLA on their Business Class. It's worked in our favor the three time its gone down in the 6 months that its been installed! Considering that, our wireless has been running five 9s to our business customers who chose us over the wired connections options. -RickG On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stuart Pierce spie...@avolve.net wrote: I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though)
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
This topic got quite a bit off from Marlon's original post, but getting back to that, what I've done more than once with the local cable company is what I guess would fit in the category of social engineering, that is I imitate what I've heard their techs say when they get stumped and call in to their own tech support. When the person on the other end of their tech support answers I say level two please with an air of confidence and impatience. I get right through to someone who knows their ascii from their elbow. Greg On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:34 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Time Warner does offer an SLA on their Business Class. It's worked in our favor the three time its gone down in the 6 months that its been installed! Considering that, our wireless has been running five 9s to our business customers who chose us over the wired connections options. -RickG On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stuart Pierce spie...@avolve.net wrote: I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I take it you never took our advice to have the guts in a NEMA box outside? If you did you can at least get it working yourself... On 1/10/10, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.132/2611 - Release Date: 01/10/10 07:35:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix" was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" o...@odessaoffice.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. "Um, I'm an hour and a half form there." "Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site." Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 270.14.132/2611 - Release Date: 01/10/10 07:35:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
So lie to them, and tell them you're standing there and the DSL light is blinking. Or whatever they want to hear. That person is probably a $10/hr individual paid to follow a flow chart, and doesn't know what to do if your answers don't fall in-line with that chart. I've done this many times. Even just the other day I chatted with Dell tech support and said I need a new hard drive, it's making scraping and clunking noises in less than 5 minutes I had a new hard drive on the way, and less than 24 hours later it was installed in the machine. Had I told them what was really going on, I'd of been working with them for an hour via chat running a chkdsk and all sorts of other diagnostic tools. In all actuality, the thing was bad... I was just skipping all the mundane steps they are supposed to follow, in order to determine something I already knew. On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
When it's a DSL or cable connection I typically say I rebooted the modem and my PC is plugged into it. On 1/10/10, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: So lie to them, and tell them you're standing there and the DSL light is blinking. Or whatever they want to hear. That person is probably a $10/hr individual paid to follow a flow chart, and doesn't know what to do if your answers don't fall in-line with that chart. I've done this many times. Even just the other day I chatted with Dell tech support and said I need a new hard drive, it's making scraping and clunking noises in less than 5 minutes I had a new hard drive on the way, and less than 24 hours later it was installed in the machine. Had I told them what was really going on, I'd of been working with them for an hour via chat running a chkdsk and all sorts of other diagnostic tools. In all actuality, the thing was bad... I was just skipping all the mundane steps they are supposed to follow, in order to determine something I already knew. On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
We're rural enough that no utility pole is within 10 degrees of vertical. Both TWC cable and ATT wires swing on those poles and whistle in the wind. I have the cheapest DSL on the cheapest wireline just as a backup (auto-failover on an old Nortel router) to RoadRunner. I complained to ATT for 8 years (then SBC) about the crackling static on the wire line that caused the DSL router to recycle every 10 minutes and FAXes to look like the printer needed an ink refill. I called and called, scheduled on-site folks, and nothing. Finally, an ATT truck was working on the neighbor's phone and I asked the guy Excuse me, sir, but I have had a problem for 8 years...could you just walk over here and put your handset on my wire and listen? He said That's awful and when I asked for his name to thank him for the out-of-duty assistance, he gave it to me. The next day it was fixed. My last TWC fix was accomplished the same way...asking a truck in the neighborhood to test my line as a favor. He, however, found a pole-mounted amplifier that had an intermittently oscillating AGC that fixed all our neighborhood problems. I don't know what people do who aren't slightly technical and a bit aggressive. On the other hand, I don't know how the TWC and ATT people keep this old outdoor plant working, either. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us When it's a DSL or cable connection I typically say I rebooted the modem and my PC is plugged into it. On 1/10/10, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: So lie to them, and tell them you're standing there and the DSL light is blinking. Or whatever they want to hear. That person is probably a $10/hr individual paid to follow a flow chart, and doesn't know what to do if your answers don't fall in-line with that chart. I've done this many times. Even just the other day I chatted with Dell tech support and said I need a new hard drive, it's making scraping and clunking noises in less than 5 minutes I had a new hard drive on the way, and less than 24 hours later it was installed in the machine. Had I told them what was really going on, I'd of been working with them for an hour via chat running a chkdsk and all sorts of other diagnostic tools. In all actuality, the thing was bad... I was just skipping all the mundane steps they are supposed to follow, in order to determine something I already knew. On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon - --- WISPA Wants You!
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I have a key to the house. It's just 1.5 hours away. The point of the whole story is crappy, ignorant support levels. marlon - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I take it you never took our advice to have the guts in a NEMA box outside? If you did you can at least get it working yourself... On 1/10/10, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
At least you have it figured out. You could be stuck with the customer unplugging your equipment leaving you no access while they go on a 2 weeks vacation... I think no one here could possibly disagree with you, though. The people on the other end of those phone calls cause brain damage. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 12:05 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: I have a key to the house. It's just 1.5 hours away. The point of the whole story is crappy, ignorant support levels. marlon - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I take it you never took our advice to have the guts in a NEMA box outside? If you did you can at least get it working yourself... On 1/10/10, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
A reboot of all hardware at the site fixed the problem. I'm guessing that a power outage (as reported by the customers) caused something to go haywire. Looks like I have to install another auto reboot device. Normally these folks are home. This is the first year they've flown south. marlon - Original Message - From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us So lie to them, and tell them you're standing there and the DSL light is blinking. Or whatever they want to hear. That person is probably a $10/hr individual paid to follow a flow chart, and doesn't know what to do if your answers don't fall in-line with that chart. I've done this many times. Even just the other day I chatted with Dell tech support and said I need a new hard drive, it's making scraping and clunking noises in less than 5 minutes I had a new hard drive on the way, and less than 24 hours later it was installed in the machine. Had I told them what was really going on, I'd of been working with them for an hour via chat running a chkdsk and all sorts of other diagnostic tools. In all actuality, the thing was bad... I was just skipping all the mundane steps they are supposed to follow, in order to determine something I already knew. On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
