Here's a thought. Why is it that every audio designer/engineer that I've
ever spoken to or read comments from has commented that their gear needs
to burn/break in to sound it's best? These are guys like William Johnson
( Audio Research), Dan D'Aagostino ( Krell), Charley Hansen ( Ayre),
etc..
So do all their amps sound the same before and/or after burn-in?
:-)
--
jmourik
jmourik's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7123
View this thread:
It seems that the general consensus is that solid state components
definitely DO benefit from a warm-up AND break-in/burnin time. This is
something that is measureable.
As for speaker cables, from what i've read, the general consensus is
that any perceived diffrence in quality after a break-in
So when I put in a new set of speakers cables and they sound bright,
grainey and lack bass, but after playing music through them for X hours
and they don't sound that way anymore it's a placebo effect?? Because
if the system still sounded like crap I'd return the cables... I only
ask beause when
mmg_fan;11 Wrote:
It seems that the general consensus is that solid state components
definitely DO benefit from a warm-up AND break-in/burnin time. This is
something that is measureable.
There is no such consensus.
Suppose such a thing were true. In order to make an audible
Damn I think I'll just chuck my fancy wires and just rewire with some
lamp cord and them freebie cables that came in the box... Hey Opie sure
you ain't related to Julian Hirsh?? He could never hear any differences
either, lol
--
ErikM
Wilfred;188382 Wrote:
Most people aren't scientists, and thus usually don't understand what it
is. The main goal of science is do build a model of an observed
phenomenon that can be used to predict its behavior under different
conditions. Also, when someone bemoans the ignorance of
Here is some more fun:
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina64.htm
Even Schrödinger's Cat gets involved in this one!
--
P Floding
No, I didn't ABX it. And I won't even if you ask me. (Especially not if
you ask me.)
P
Read this to find out why Slimdevices doesn't freeze SB3 components
before assembly or whole SB3s before shipping them:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/PWB/message/162
Any comments, Sean?
TD
--
tyler_durden
tyler_durden;188442 Wrote:
Read this to find out why Slimdevices doesn't freeze SB3 components
before assembly or whole SB3s before shipping them
But wouldn't that be the same problem as bringing out a new model? You
just ordered the sb3, and a month later the new and improved sb4
appears.
jmourik;188448 Wrote:
But wouldn't that be the same problem as bringing out a new model? You
just ordered the sb3, and a month later the new and improved sb4
appears. Bummer...
Or they could launch a SB3 Cryo, for $325?
Dunno...
No, that would be different.
TD
--
tyler_durden
jmourik;188448 Wrote:
But wouldn't that be the same problem as bringing out a new model? You
just ordered the sb3, and a month later the new and improved sb4
appears. Bummer...
Or they could launch a SB3 Cryo, for $325?
I think you fell into Tyler's tongue-in-cheek trap.
OTOH either
At least we haven't (yet) suffered May Belt hopping on this forum and
pushing her husbands ideas.
On the stereophile forum she has gone on and on with her obfuscating
arguments designed to conceal the snake oil.
Spare us that here please.
They are some serious loony tunes :-)
--
tomjtx
tomjtx;188473 Wrote:
At least we haven't (yet) suffered May Belt hopping on this forum and
pushing her husbands ideas.
On the stereophile forum she has gone on and on with her obfuscating
arguments designed to conceal the snake oil.
Spare us that here please.
They are some serious
haunyack;188075 Wrote:
Unfortunately, because insulation stores and releases energy, it is
also a dielectric. In a cable application, all released energy is
distortion. The misnomer break-in is often used...
Actually some of this is real science. A cable is made up of two
conductors
opaqueice;188065 Wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me that some audiophiles regard the opinions of
untrained people, people with a direct financial interest in the
subject, as more credible than those of disinterested professional
scientists that do full-time research on it.
Why? Well,
Yes, this is America's great shame.
The lunatics are running the assylum.
For more interesting info about how religion has had its influence on
American society, read this:
http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.html
TD
--
tyler_durden
I too have a natural scepticism about device and theories of this type.
However, I also see that while science has done a good job of
explaining the more obvious phenomenon in this world, its success has
meant that we have effective reinvented the world we perceive from the
coarse building
Most people aren't scientists, and thus usually don't understand what it
is. The main goal of science is do build a model of an observed
phenomenon that can be used to predict its behavior under different
conditions. Also, when someone bemoans the ignorance of 'science', it
is often because
tyler_durden;188372 Wrote:
For more interesting info about how religion has had its influence on
American society, read this:
http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.html
TD
Interesting article TD! Thanks...
--
jmourik
GaryB;187965 Wrote:
Well we don't want to make this too easy for you, so we'll offer
multiple choices and see if you can guess the right answer.
Break-in is:
---Gary
Another one I saw on the forms is:
* The time period you need to get over buyer's remorse, so you are less
likely to
GaryB;187975 Wrote:
For another and perhaps better informed opinion, take a look at the
following FAQ written by Jim Hagerman of Hagtech. He's a very good
engineer and makes quality audio products and kits at reasonable
prices. The FAQ is here:
Have you actually read the FAQ? He quite
GaryB;187975 Wrote:
For another and perhaps better informed opinion, take a look at the
following FAQ written by Jim Hagerman of Hagtech. He's a very good
engineer and makes quality audio products and kits at reasonable
prices. The FAQ is here:
http://www.hagtech.com/burn.html
And
mmg_fan;187955 Wrote:
I'm auditioning some anti-cable interconnects and speaker cables on my
system (Magnepan MG12's, Jolida hybrid amp) and though a bit bright
sounding, overall I am quite pleased.
But the literature accompanying them suggests a minimum of 200 and up
to 500 hours of
tyler_durden;187978 Wrote:
The guy is selling a $500 cable break-in device so his opinion is more
informed?
TD,
You do have a way of creating a strawman and then knocking it down. I
recommended Hagerman's site because he admits he doesn't know why
burn-in works scientifically but does
Thing is, though, he's not just saying I can't justify the effects of
cable 'burn-in' scientifically, but people claim to be able to hear a
difference, so I believe there is a genuine effect on the properties of
the cable and I have a product which I believe may stimulate and
accelerate the
GaryB;188040 Wrote:
TD,
I recommended Hagerman's site because he admits he doesn't know why
burn-in works scientifically but does offer his own empirical findings.
He also has built some relatively affordable burn-in accelerators and
they seem to sell well. I find this market acceptance an
tyler_durden;188062 Wrote:
What engineering?
The guy simply recognizes that there are a number if insecure
in-duh-viduals out there with disposable income to throw away on junk,
so he provides the junk.
Here's an old saying that may help you through the rest of your audio
life: if
GaryB;188040 Wrote:
TD,
You do have a way of creating a strawman and then knocking it down. I
recommended Hagerman's site because he admits he doesn't know why
burn-in works scientifically but does offer his own empirical findings.
He also has built some relatively affordable burn-in
AndyC_772;187999 Wrote:
Have you actually read the FAQ? He quite openly admits to having
absolutely no clue what 'break-in' might actually be doing to the
cable, or what the effect (if any) is on its measurable parameters.
Instead he writes a load of fluff like It is needed to format and
hi mmg_fan,
I just noticed you got MG12, rather than MMGs. So, how do you like them
with Yolida? Can you tell there are tubes in the path (as opposed to
some SS amp of the similar level)? Is Yolida capable of driving MGs?
Back to the topic. Can you, with your equipment, tell the difference
Here's a simple test that anyone can try. It validates what Hagerman is
saying, to an extent. Asumming that one has a decent system and can
hear differences say between speakers ( we can all agree that speakers
sound different)listen to your system for a few minutes. Then remove
the interconnect
ErikM;188119 Wrote:
Here's a simple test that anyone can try. It validates what Hagerman is
saying, to an extent. Asumming that one has a decent system and can
hear differences say between speakers ( we can all agree that speakers
sound different)listen to your system for a few minutes. Then
ErikM;188119 Wrote:
What you'll most likley hear is that your system now sounds brighter,
less good, less as it sounded before. This effect will pass in a few
hours to as much a day, and your system will sound as before. The
question, if you hear this phenomenon, is why? I have an idea but
ErikM;188119 Wrote:
Here's a simple test that anyone can try. ...snip...
What you'll most likley hear is that your system now sounds brighter,
less good, less as it sounded before. This effect will pass in a few
hours to as much a day, and your system will sound as before. The
question, if
Certainly unhooking and rehooking will slightly clean the connections..
but that would make things sound better asumming that ones contacts are
that dirty or corroded. Of course if you did try what I suggest (maybe
clean the contacts first) and heard a diference what would you do??
Would you even
ErikM;188131 Wrote:
Certainly unhooking and rehooking will slightly clean the connections..
but that would make things sound better asumming that ones contacts are
that dirty or corroded. Of course if you did try what I suggest (maybe
clean the contacts first) and heard a diference what
ErikM;188131 Wrote:
Certainly unhooking and rehooking will slightly clean the connections..
but that would make things sound better asumming that ones contacts are
that dirty or corroded. Of course if you did try what I suggest (maybe
clean the contacts first) and heard a diference what
Wow! So if I hear a difference its not real? You mean I did hear a
difference, but really I just thought I heard it, so all these years
when I bought better speakers, and electronics,which I thought sounded
better I wasn't really hearing better sound I just thought I was? WOW,
you mean that those
ErikM;188184 Wrote:
Wow! So if I hear a difference its not real? You mean I did hear a
difference, but really I just thought I heard it, so all these years
when I bought better speakers, and electronics,which I thought sounded
better I wasn't really hearing better sound I just thought I was?
ErikM;188184 Wrote:
Wow! So if I hear a difference its not real? You mean I did hear a
difference, but really I just thought I heard it, so all these years
when I bought better speakers, and electronics,which I thought sounded
better I wasn't really hearing better sound I just thought I was?
Ok
Yes, I have done a search and read this thread;
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33527highlight=break
But it still doesn't answer the question.
Is 'burn' or 'break-in' time when it comes to electronics/speaker
cables simply a psycho-acoustic phenomena or does something physical
mmg_fan;187955 Wrote:
Is 'burn' or 'break-in' time when it comes to electronics/speaker cables
simply a psycho-acoustic phenomena or does something physical actually
happen to make the sound 'better'?
Well we don't want to make this too easy for you, so we'll offer
multiple choices and see
mmg_fan;187955 Wrote:
I'm auditioning some anti-cable interconnects and speaker cables on my
system (Magnepan MG12's, Jolida hybrid amp) and though a bit bright
sounding, overall I am quite pleased.
But the literature accompanying them suggests a minimum of 200 and up
to 500 hours of
mmg_fan;187955 Wrote:
Ok
Yes, I have done a search and read this thread;
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33527highlight=break
But it still doesn't answer the question.
And you think this one will?
My (informed) opinion is that break-in for cables is non-existent.
opaqueice;187969 Wrote:
My (informed) opinion is that break-in for cables is non-existent.
For another and perhaps better informed opinion, take a look at the
following FAQ written by Jim Hagerman of Hagtech. He's a very good
engineer and makes quality audio products and kits at reasonable
GaryB;187975 Wrote:
For another and perhaps better informed opinion, take a look at the
following FAQ written by Jim Hagerman of Hagtech. He's a very good
engineer and makes quality audio products and kits at reasonable
prices. The FAQ is here:
http://www.hagtech.com/burn.html
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