> ritu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Robert J. Chassell wrote:
>
> > Is the theological-political connection right? Is
> it fair to say that
> > many people do wish to behave with the same
> qualities as their God?
> > If so, and if the qualities are as stated, does
> this predefine the
> > att
> [He overstates his case here, as most
> Christians consider Jesus 'given for the sake of the
> world' and I think there is a Jewish concept of 'being
> a light unto the world' also.]
>
There is a core Jewish concept of the people Israel being called upon by God
to be "or l'goyim" ("a light unt
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[I wrote:]
> > [He overstates his case here, as most
> > Christians consider Jesus 'given for the sake of
> >the world' and I think there is a Jewish concept of
> >'being a light unto the world' also.]
>
> There is a core Jewish concept of the people Israel
> being ca
Deborah Harrell wrote:
> While I _understand_ why Boykin* has done so, I
> strongly disagree with him; all who cast this "war on
> terror" in a religious frame invoke Crusade on the
> western (which Boykin has equated to 'fundamentalist
> Christian') front, and jihad on the Muslim. That is a
> r
--- ritu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyway, I digress. From where I sit, his view does
> seem to be the view
> of a vast silent majority of muslims. The worrisome
> thing, though, is
> that relentless pressure, suspicion, demonisation
> and heckling to prove
> their humanitarian credentials could
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> --- ritu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Anyway, I digress. From where I sit, his view does
> > seem to be the view
> > of a vast silent majority of muslims. The worrisome
> > thing, though, is
> > that relentless pressure, suspicion, demonisation
> > and heckling to prove
- Original Message -
From: "ritu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Killer Bs Discussion'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 4:00 AM
Subject: RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question
>
> Gautam, how many religio-politica
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> Episcopalians aren't launching suicide bombing campaigns.
No, they're too busy fighting amongst themselves about the gay bishop.
I don't think the Methodists are launching suicide bombing campaigns, and
they're not fighting with each other to the p
--- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> I don't think the Methodists are launching suicide
> bombing campaigns, and
> they're not fighting with each other to the point
> that it's making it into
> my paper. That might be a better example for yo
Dan Minette wrote:
> > Gautam, how many religio-political groups condemn their own
> > lunatics/extremists loudly, clearly and constantly? For
> that matter, how
> > many political organisations/groups do that?
>
> >From my perspective, its the norm over here. I remember the
> pope routinely
--- ritu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> Because that seems to be normal group dynamics:
> Isolate a group, treat
> them with constant suspicion and act as if they are
> all potential
> terrorists and sooner, rather than later, there is a
> ground swell of
> support, within the
On 9 Nov 2003 at 9:11, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> Second, _the support is already there_. People in
> Muslim countries all over the world celebrated on
> September 11th. I've seen the videotape, and so have
> most other people. Opinion polls suggest that in much
> of the Islamic world, Osama Bin L
On 9 Nov 2003 at 8:40, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> --- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> > I don't think the Methodists are launching suicide
> > bombing campaigns, and
> > they're not fighting with each other to the point
> > that it's making i
> Yet. I wouldn't put it beyond a fanatic to do something unfortunate.
> (Remember a certain chap called Rabin? I do...)
>
There was also Baruch Goldstein in 1994, I'm ashamed to say.
The difference is, most Jews worldwide were aghast at both. With a few
despicable exceptions, there was hardly
On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, Andrew Crystall wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2003 at 9:11, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
>
> > Our responsibility is to stop being enablers. Since
> > September 11th of 2001, the US and its allies have
> > taken up that responsibility. It's time for the rest
> > of the world to do the same.
--- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd like to have the US look at Britain's handling
> of the IRA problem and
> note what worked and what didn't, and use that to
> help the US avoid making
> mistakes that don't have to be made.
>
> Julia
What worked:
Very little
What didn't:
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
The problem is very different in Iraq, thankfully.
The Ba'athists almost certainly have no popular
support, very much unlike the IRA.
The problem is, neither do we. In invading Iraq in the manner we did,
without the support of the UN or even all of our NATO allies, and with
On 9 Nov 2003 at 16:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Yet. I wouldn't put it beyond a fanatic to do something unfortunate.
> > (Remember a certain chap called Rabin? I do...)
> >
>
> There was also Baruch Goldstein in 1994, I'm ashamed to say.
>
> The difference is, most Jews worldwide were agha
Andrew Crystall wrote:
> I'd point you to certain elements within Israel's current government.
> To some extent, they've been digging their own holes...
>
> Ah well. Let's just say my thoughs on the current Isralie situation
> do NOT make me popular.
So did you approve of what Moshe Ya'alom sa
--- Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The problem is, neither do we. In invading Iraq in
> the manner we did,
> without the support of the UN or even all of our
> NATO allies, and with
> little evidence that Hussain was involved in
> terrorist attacks against the
> West (and of course
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:14:15 -0800 (PST), Gautam Mukunda
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The problem is, neither do we. In invading Iraq in
the manner we did,
without the support of the UN or even all of our
NATO allies, and with
little evidence that Huss
- Original Message -
From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question
>
> Do you really think that anyone in Iraq c
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> --- Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The problem is, neither do we. In invading Iraq in
> > the manner we did,
> > without the support of the UN or even all of our
> > NATO allies, and with
> > little evidence that Hussain was involved
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Dan Minette wrote:
> But, that's not where we are. As far as I can tell from the opinion
> polls and other reports, the opinion of the US held by the people of
> Iraq is souring. We are being seen less as liberators and more as
> foreign occupiers. While the idea that peo
- Original Message -
From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question
>
>
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Dan Minette
At 09:45 AM 11/9/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> Episcopalians aren't launching suicide bombing campaigns.
No, they're too busy fighting amongst themselves about the gay bishop.
The Anglican Church became the first major Christian denomination to
At 09:16 AM 11/10/2003 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote:
>Yes. More importantly, if we had done it properly, external (to Iraq)
>support for the terrorists would be minimized. As it is (and as I stated
>before) we've created access for anti Americans throughout the world to
>attack us. Do you reall
At 03:30 PM 11/9/2003 +0530 ritu wrote:
>Gautam, how many religio-political groups condemn their own
>lunatics/extremists loudly, clearly and constantly? For that matter, how
>many political organisations/groups do that?
Pro-Lifers in the United States would be one example of a religio-political
g
At 08:18 PM 11/9/2003 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote:
>The problem is, neither do we. In invading Iraq in the manner we did,
>without the support of the UN or even all of our NATO allies,
I am sure that if *NATO* had authorized the attack on Iraq, everything
would be hunky-dory in Fallujah and else
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:26:18 -0500
At 03:30 PM 11/9/2003 +0530 ritu wrot
At 01:31 PM 11/11/2003 -0500 Jon Gabriel wrote:
>>From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: RE: [L3] RE: religious/political questio
On 11 Nov 2003 at 12:45, John D. Giorgis wrote:
> At 08:18 PM 11/9/2003 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote:
> >The problem is, neither do we. In invading Iraq in the manner we
> >did, without the support of the UN or even all of our NATO allies,
>
> I am sure that if *NATO* had authorized the attack on
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:36:19 -0500
At 01:31 PM 11/11/2003 -0500 Jon Ga
At 03:57 PM 11/11/2003 -0500 Jon Gabriel wrote:
>She may very well be right, yet I found no evidence of any official
>statement condemning violence against anyone except unborn children anywhere
>on their very comprehensive website. What's curious to me is that since
>(afaik) the NRLC is _the_
--- "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >As I said earlier, I wish more organizations would
> be so outspoken, whether
> >their members feel that way or not. They have a
> responsibility to speak out
> >against those who pervert their ideals, you know?
>
> No, I do not know, actually
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:25:07 -0500
At 03:57 PM 11/11/2003 -0500 Jon Gabriel
Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> > Because that seems to be normal group dynamics:
> > Isolate a group, treat
> > them with constant suspicion and act as if they are
> > all potential
> > terrorists and sooner, rather than later, there is a
> > ground swell of
> > support, within the same group, for the e
--- "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What I find most amazing is that all you opponents
> of the war talked about
> how hard it would be to rebuild Iraq before the war,
> and many proponents of
> the war agreed - but argued that it would be harder
> for America to leave
> Saddam Hus
John D. Giorgis wrote:
> At 09:16 AM 11/10/2003 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote:
> >Yes. More importantly, if we had done it properly, external
> (to Iraq)
> >support for the terrorists would be minimized. As it is
> (and as I stated
> >before) we've created access for anti Americans throughout
On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 11:12:42AM +0530, ritu wrote:
> I remember most of the 120 million muslims of my country speaking out
> against the atrocity.
You must have a phenomenal memory! I can only remember 120 people on a
good day, let alone 120 MILLION!
--
Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.n
> From: ritu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > Second, _the support is already there_. People in
> > Muslim countries all over the world celebrated on
> > September 11th. I've seen the videotape, and so have
> > most other people.
>
> Sure the support is already there but it isn't as widespread
> From: Horn, John
>
> It seems to me that if there were a major terrorist attack
> (or natural disaster or whatever) at Mecca during the haij
> you could find a fair number of Bubba's in pickups who would
> be dancing in the streets and shooting their shotguns in the
> air throughout the US.
On 12 Nov 2003, at 8:22 pm, Horn, John wrote:
From: Horn, John
It seems to me that if there were a major terrorist attack
(or natural disaster or whatever) at Mecca during the haij
you could find a fair number of Bubba's in pickups who would
be dancing in the streets and shooting their shotguns i
Erik Reuter wrote:
> > I remember most of the 120 million muslims of my country
> speaking out
> > against the atrocity.
>
> You must have a phenomenal memory! I can only remember 120 people on a
> good day, let alone 120 MILLION!
*g*
Not that phenomenal...hmm, how about this: 'In the afterm
On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:56:30AM +0530, ritu wrote:
> Not that phenomenal...hmm, how about this: 'In the aftermath of 9/11,
> a large number of Indian muslims spoke out against the atrocity. In
> fact, only a few of the 120 million Indian muslims spoke in favour of
> OBL and they were condemned/
Erik Reuter wrote:
> A little. But I don't put a high value on such anecdotal evidence. A
> poll of at least 1000 of those people (randomly selected across a
> diverse range of backgrounds) asking how favorably they view OBL would
> be more convincing.
I don't think their support[or lack thereof
On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 05:51:20PM +0530, ritu wrote:
> And unlike Pakistan, Indian muslims just don't seem to be included in
> the international polls on the subject. I have always found that a bit
> strange as India has the second largest muslim population in the world
> - only Indonesia has mor
Erik Reuter wrote:
> Maybe an India-based entrepreneur should start a polling organization.
We have some - it's just that their questions are focused on
subcontinental, national and local politics and issues.
Ritu
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman
From: "ritu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Killer Bs Discussion'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [L3] RE: religious/political question
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:01:42 +0530
Erik Reuter wrote:
&g
- Original Message -
From: "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: [L3] RE: religious/political question
> On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 10:56:30AM +0530, ri
ritu wrote:
Well, Al Qaeda has been exhorting its members to reach Iraq and attack
the US forces for months now. The borders are porous enough, so it is
only a question of how obedient the cadres are.
If the US had found a few barrels of anthrax or some signs of an active
nuclear program or anyth
Dan Minette wrote:
> It may also be worthwhile to know what the nature of these
> Indian Muslims
> who spoke out was. If they were people who Ritu happened to
> know, it would
> be as anecdotal as Erik suggested.
These weren't people I knew on a personal basis. These were people I saw
on the
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