Oh god state sanctioned domestic violence?? Give me a greaking break :
We have a husband who is #1 in the eyes of the law and two parents who
can't face the fact their daughter is gone. Not only is she gone she
is gone from her own poor choices. Let's make her a poster girl for
helping girls with
What chance? All that is Ms Shaivo was lost. What makes us, us is
mostly the cerebral cortex. According to court testimony and outside
interviews, the medical consensus is that this part of the brain has
mostly died off and atrophied with Ms. Shaivo. All that is left is the
lower functioning
Larry wrote:
What chance? All that is Ms Shaivo was lost. What makes us, us is
mostly the cerebral cortex. According to court testimony and outside
interviews, the medical consensus is that this part of the brain has
mostly died off and atrophied with Ms. Shaivo. All that is left is the
I canno see how that part of the brain can be regenerated at all. It
contains the most complex axions and nerve cells, along with support
cells etc. Any therapy which could possibly regenerate this part of
the brain would be major news.
larry
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:13:45 -0600, Gruss Gott [EMAIL
Larry wrote:
I canno see how that part of the brain can be regenerated at all. It
contains the most complex axions and nerve cells, along with support
cells etc. Any therapy which could possibly regenerate this part of
the brain would be major news.
Yeah, and my speculation would be that
So you keep saying. But the links you put up as evidence don't
actually say that. They say that family members often have the best
notion of what is going on. Actually. As for medical consensus.
Medical consensus says I should probably be pulling a little cannister
of oxygen around with me. After
Dana, I've provided the refs several times. Terry Shaivo has been
diagnosed as fbeing in a Persistent Vegitative State, the BMS and AMA
have very specific prognosis - after 3-6 months (US) or 1 year
(england) the chances of recovering from this condition is nill.
Moreover any basic neuropsych book
yes Larry, I know you have. I have read them. They don't say what you
say they say is what I am saying. But we have already been through
this --- remember? you, me and Sam -- and I don't think any of us is
going to change our minds.
Dana
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:12:56 -0500, Larry C. Lyons [EMAIL
Larry wrote:
Terri Shaivo first went into a PVS
over 15 years ago with significant brain damage - its become much
worse since. There is no recovery from this.
Yeah, it would be one thing if this had just happened or even if it
was 2 years ago, but it was 15 years ago and the court appointed
My question is - if the feeding tube has been removed, why isn't she
dead yet? I thought it only took a few days. Oh wait, I suppose
they're giving her IV fluidsit's a few days for fluids...longer
for food.
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:18:08 -0700, Dana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
yes Larry, I know
, 2005 12:27 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Terri Schiavo May Die Soon
My question is - if the feeding tube has been removed, why isn't she
dead yet? I thought it only took a few days. Oh wait, I suppose
they're giving her IV fluidsit's a few days for fluids...longer
The tube was not removed. An activist judge..erwait.a
god-fearing, upstanding, judgeordered a stay until mid march
immediately after the previous stay had expired.
My question is - if the feeding tube has been removed, why isn't she
dead yet? I thought it only took a
From what I understand it has not been removed. There's been a hold
placed on the feeding tube removal for about 3 weeks - The ultra
competant state family services agency (the one that lost all those
kids) has weighted in with abuse allegations and wanted the time to
investigate.
larry
On Tue,
It sounds to me Dana like you are letting your personal history cloud your take
on this.
Which is your right, but I personally think you are wrong.
And I have to agree that I think the plug should be pulled - on the cameras and
microphones.
It is not help Terry at all by prolonging this, is
, I don't think so. I am simply trying to put myself in her
place. The thing is, if her parents are right, yes, the media coverage
is helping her and may be saving her life. I realize that that is a
big if and that many people think they are not. But suppose they are.
Dana
On Mon, 28
Dana wrote:
, I don't think so. I am simply trying to put myself in her
place.
Just curious, but what do you think her place is? At a minimum she's
massively brain damaged and whoever she was is most likely gone
forever. What's there today is just the empty container that used to
exactly. And after going through the literature line by line with
Larr, I still think she has a chance that nobody has let her try
yet...
Dana
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:57:05 -0600, Gruss Gott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dana wrote:
, I don't think so. I am simply trying to put myself in
Agreed completely. In fact I wonder if the percentage of
twenty-somethings with living wills has gone up since the Schiavo
incident became publicwould be an interesting statistic...
Dana wrote:
But it probably would not have occurred to you to do so otherwise,
right? I know I'm in my
Sure, but let's say he's not telling the truth. As the husband and legal
guardian, aren't the medical decisions about her welfare his choice?
Either way it needs to end.
-Original Message-
From: Dana
To: CF-Community
Sent: 2/25/05 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Terri Schiavo May Die Soon
What about the neurological evidence? Or that she's been in a
persistent vegetative state for almost 15 years now. The parents are
sadly deluding themselves thinking that any recovery is possible. The
available research show that recovery is all but impossible after only
a few months. After that
So you're damning him because of some allegations with no proof. What
about the parents? Are they all that innocent and noble? What agenda
are they trying to put forth. It seems to me that their motivations
etc have completely been glossed over. Also the people they have
accepted in support are
I say that sounds quite realistic but does not address the fundamental
question of whether he is telling the truth when he says she made her
wishes known to him.
Dana
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:35:19 -0600, Gruss Gott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dana wrote:
He does not strike me as an idealist
I'm saying I don't believe him. I have heard him and I have heard the
parents. I believe them and I don't believe him. In my opinion what we
are seeing is state-sanctioned domestic violence, and that's assuming
he in fact has nothing to do with putting her in this condition.
If I were a judge
Dana wrote:
I'm saying I don't believe him. I have heard him and I have heard the
parents. I believe them and I don't believe him. In my opinion what we
are seeing is state-sanctioned domestic violence, and that's assuming
he in fact has nothing to do with putting her in this condition.
I
By not filing a living will she failed to say otherwise. Nothing more.
I know I damn sure would not want my ex making medical decisions for
me and would not have wanted him to so in the five years we stayed
married after breaking up, in which it did not occur to me to make a
living will. How many
Dana wrote:
Now the law, yes, the law may well be that he is her guardian, but
this is a case where the law is an ass.
Doesn't that phrase refer to situations where someone is knowingly
violating the spirit of law even though they're not breaking crimes?
If so, that not the case here as the
Yes, either way it is too bad and is an object lesson in the wisdom of
making a living will. The fact that reasonable people can see such
very different scenarios here makes it the stuff of tragedy no matter
which point of view you believe.
I have to say that I can totally understand the husband
Actually for what it's worth, I'm 26 and mostly because of the Schiavo
situation; I made out a living will. There will be no fighting over how
I die now thank you...
Dana wrote:
By not filing a living will she failed to say otherwise. Nothing more.
I know I damn sure would not want my ex
But it probably would not have occurred to you to do so otherwise,
right? I know I'm in my forties and it wasn't even on my horizon until
I was in the hospital this October being admitted and they were asking
me who they should call in case.
Dana
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:28:40 -0800, Gregory
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/25/schiavo.case.ap/index.html
I've heard the arguments on both sides and while it's heartbreaking
for the parents, my opinion is that the State should not overrule the
husband's decision.
The counter argument goes that someone needs to speak for her and look
out
I hope she does die soon. I'm tired of hearing about this.
-Original Message-
From: Gruss Gott
To: CF-Community
Sent: 2/25/05 5:03 PM
Subject: Terri Schiavo May Die Soon
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/25/schiavo.case.ap/index.html
I've heard the arguments on both sides and while it's
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 18:43:12 -0500, John Stanley
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I hope she does die soon. I'm tired of hearing about this.
-Original Message-
From: Gruss Gott
To: CF-Community
Sent: 2/25/05 5:03 PM
Subject: Terri Schiavo May Die Soon
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/25
: Terri Schiavo May Die Soon
I hope she does die soon. I'm tired of hearing about this.
Regardless of how I feel about this case that statement is heartless,
selfish, and hopefully sounds a lot worse than you intended. You could
have just as easily said I hope the husband changes his mind and
allows
Subject: Re: Terri Schiavo May Die Soon
I hope she does die soon. I'm tired of hearing about this.
Regardless of how I feel about this case that statement is heartless,
selfish, and hopefully sounds a lot worse than you intended. You could
have just as easily said I hope the husband
Dana wrote:
But John there are also some very fine reasons not to believe him.
However the case goes, this case teaches us all to make our wishes
known, because as we saw in an earlier thread, not all of us would
want that plug pulled.
She did make her wishes known: she told her husband
Hehe, *she* may have trusted her husband, but I don't. Not that anyone
is asking me, but that's my opinion for what it is worth. I think he
is just tired of dealing with a wife that is inconveniently not dying.
I think he would rather it was all over so he can concentrate on his
current family.
Dana wrote:
Hehe, *she* may have trusted her husband, but I don't. Not that anyone
is asking me, but that's my opinion for what it is worth. I think he
is just tired of dealing with a wife that is inconveniently not dying.
I think he would rather it was all over so he can concentrate on his
Good question. As for why he doesn't just let it go, well, some guys
don't. Look at all the wives who get shot as they are leaving. And
yes, this is a terrible thing to say about someone I don't know, but
he has made himself a public figure with this battle and it is fair
comment to question his
Dana wrote:
He does not strike me as an idealist
who would spend years battling for his wife's wishes. At all.
Fair point - so how about this:
1.) Originally he wanted to start his new family with a little seed
money from Terri's tradgedy. Maybe she mentioned the life support
thing, maybe
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