Nick Han said:
>
> I am more interested in database design help. What I am thinking
> right now is right after the deadline, before the reviewer making
> changes, I dup the db schema and back that up, and the current
> schema will have the current data, including changes made by the
> reviewer. If
All right I am having serious problems trying to get my head around this
one, I have made a CFC that traverses through the directory structure and
returns a query with the whole directory structure underneath the parent it
was given.
Then I have made a CFC that is to work with this query and vis
I created built one of these for my graduate project. Contact me of line and I'll see if I cat find the data structure.
Dwayne Cole, MS in MIS, MBA
Florida A&M University
Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
850-591-0212
"It can truly be said that nothing happens until there is vision. But
Hell Everybody, I really need someone's help. I'm
working on a cf application with a sql backend. This
is an IT Logs database system. I am working on the
front end for the support desk. A support desk user
can view a log, add a new log or update a log. My
query is specific to viewing and updating a
just add another column to the table, call it "locked" of type BIT and 1 is
locked and 0 is unlocked
Taco Fleur
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn
-Original Message-
From: cf coder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 April 2004 9:1
another method I seen on the list
better to use some sort of username rather than just a bit column to
indicate a lock... also a timestamp that the record was last modified
then you can do a scan every twenty minutes and if it has not been
updated in 20 minutes you can assume that the user is no
thanks for your tips. I'll try this and get back to you.
>just add another column to the table, call it "locked" of type BIT and 1 is
>locked and 0 is unlocked
>
>
>Taco Fleur
>
>Tell me and I will forget
>Show me and I will remember
>Teach me and I will learn
>
>-Original Message-
>Fro
I work for a non-profit senior care facility that has been trying to
figure out how to come up with the cost of purchasing 6.1.
Donating it to us would be a great compromise, wouldn't it???
-Tim
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There is a post SP 4 bug that can cause IIS services to hang (including SMTP). I don't know if that's your issue but
here is the KB:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;819019
The patch is only available from MS tech support, but I found it online here.
http://www.pubforum.n
OK its gripe time
Just about to run an upgrade on a ColdFusion 5 set of servers in a test
environment and I must say that back in the days of Allaire we used to get
Service Packs with nice rolled up packaged of ALL hotfixes and Security
updates but now I have to trawl through the MM site to
For those who are interested, I put together the results from the coding
contest and put everyone's source code up that competed. Here is the
link:
http://adserver2.alfred.edu/kevin/cfcontest/index.cfm
My code finished first in three of the five tests and Nathan Mische's
finished first in th
Why not go with the freely available version of BlueDragon. Then you
wouldn't have to worry about cost at all.
-Matt
On Apr 21, 2004, at 8:36 AM, Claremont, Timothy wrote:
> I work for a non-profit senior care facility that has been trying to
> figure out how to come up with the cost of purcha
> My code finished first in three of the five tests and Nathan
> Mische's finished first in the other two. The best display
> award went to Steve Nelson for his t-rex style output (IE only).
You won?!... What a SHAM, of course you won, you were the judge!!! j/k
Steve Nelson's kicks butt..
I was just about to say that.
-Original Message-
From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 8:55 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX for sale
Why not go with the freely available version of BlueDragon. Then you
wouldn't have to worry about cost a
Seems like you have FAR to much time on your hands... ;-)
_
From: Kazmierczak, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 21 April 2004 13:50
To: CF-Talk
Subject: CF Coding Contest Results
For those who are interested, I put together the results from the coding
contest and put everyone's s
My rant of long standing is that Macromedia has never gotten it together with
installers or updates. I know they are aware of the problem, because they
continually are hearing about it.
The very simplest (and cheapest) software applications as well as the
majors,have one-step installers written w
Tim,
Sounds to me like you need BlueDragon.
-adam
> -Original Message-
> From: Claremont, Timothy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 12:36 PM
> To: 'CF-Talk'
> Subject: RE: CFMX for sale
>
> I work for a non-profit senior care facility that has been trying to
>
I agree with Adam. I understand the intent of NFR, but if I own
something (a car, a TV, a software package) I don't see why I can't pass
it on to someone else for the value they're willing to give me? If the
CFUG is that bent on making sure the person they give it to can use it,
they should have
Just put it on ebay and end this thread already
-Original Message-
From: Burns, John D [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:39 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX for sale
I agree with Adam. I understand the intent of NFR, but if I own
something (a car, a T
Because (20 and true) returns true, so (true and 20) should return true.
Barney Boisvert wrote:
> If you agree that 20 is true, then you implicitly agree that 20 is a boolean
> value. With that, how can you argue that 20 is not a valid result from a
> boolean _expression_?
[Todays Threads]
[T
Kelly,
How are you using cookies to keep track of users? Are you storing token and id in assoication with session vars? If this is a session mishmatch, try turning on 'Use UUID for cftoken' through the CFIDE Under 'Settings'. This seem to do the trick for me when I've run into this problem.
Speak
I'm working on setting up the terrific FCKeditor, and was curious if
anyone had already built an image uploader and/or a image browser to go
along with this editor. If so, are you willing to share?
I'd hate to recode my own if one already has been done!
Thanks in advance!
Jake
[Todays Threads]
I know this discussion came up before about how many emails can be sent
*reliably* using in CFMX 6.1. I'm curious what the numbers are
on that and then also what is out there that people would recommend for
doing mail-outs that are too big for CF. I'm thinking that I want to
use CF to give some
Yeah i know this is off topic, but I want to wrap up.
If said winner used the server to develop a system for a client, would it be wrong to bill the client for the price of server (considering they would have paid it regardless?). Either way, the server isnt for development only, so someone will m
I am writing an intranet app in a medical environment. As such, I
need/want to track accesses to the data, client records, etc.
What I am wondering is what is the most effective logging from both a
security persepctive and a performance angle. Management sees the need
to log as much activity as po
>> use cookies to keep track of the users. There is one
> company that when people from there login, they are seeing other
> peoples information from that company.
I know you said that they are all using their own computers... but we
had issues where the network storage of profiles was getting
its insance and its driving me insane...!
_
From: Doug White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 21 April 2004 14:13
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX Service Packs
My rant of long standing is that Macromedia has never gotten it together
with
installers or updates. I know they are aware of th
I am looking at BlueDragon and would like to know who is using it for their production apps. Can you offer a brief evaluation? Stable? Fast? Any incompatibilites other than the unsupported tags mentioned in the docs? We are currently using CF5/Win2K/IIS/Oracle with client variables in a load-b
>> If said winner used the server to develop
where is the said winner, haven't heard a peep since started this
thread... do you think she was scared off?
:-)
--
David
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> I understand the intent of NFR, but if I own something (a
> car, a TV, a software package) I don't see why I can't pass
> it on to someone else for the value they're willing to give
> me?
If you purchase commercial software, you typically don't actually own the
software you purchase. You lice
> Is there some kind of software
> (preferrably cheap or free) that can actually handle the
> "mailing" part in the background without slowing down CF?
We've written a mailing-list-manager type app here which allows the user
to send combined plain text/HTML emails to an opt-in mailing list. Al
Oops. Forgot to mention we use CF5 Enterprise (for the Oracle Native drivers).
Chris
> -Original Message-
> From: Lofback, Chris
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:52 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: BlueDragon in production?
>
>
> I am looking at BlueDragon and would like to
> where is the said winner, haven't heard a peep since started
> this thread... do you think she was scared off?
Probably hanging out on the cf-community list waiting for everyone to
continue the discussion over there like Mike D requested.
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>> Probably hanging out on the cf-community list waiting for everyone to
continue the discussion over there like Mike D requested.
:-) Nice one! Over and out from me
--
David
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> Oops. Forgot to mention we use CF5 Enterprise (for the
> Oracle Native drivers).
One thing you might run into, whether you migrate from CF 5 to BlueDragon or
to MX, is that you'll be using JDBC drivers to connect to Oracle, and there
are often little differences between how they work and how y
Well... over on cf-ot I posted this on Saturday (I know, need to get a
life) so I'll post here in the hope of getting a response :-)
Anybody recommend any good forums for XSL/XSLT beginners?
Books and all recommendations welcome.
Got a loan of the XSLT Cookbook from Or'Reilly*** and that provi
Tim,
I'm not very familiar with perl at all. I'm getting ready to move to a
dedicated Windows server. Is this something I could do from there?
That was one thing I thought about as well was the requesttimeout and
the time the user would have to sit there while the CF page processed
all of those
> Anybody recommend any good forums for XSL/XSLT beginners?
Check out this link on the left hand side...
http://www.w3schools.com/
Mike
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We are using CFMX Enterprise for some internal apps and the Oracle drivers work without a hitch.
So do you use BlueDragon for any of your production apps? If so, how do you like it?
Chris
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1
Copy them out of the spool folder and back in one at a time.
-Original Message-
From: Eric Creese [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:01 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: SMTP
Ok I hae a bunch of mail sitting in my Spool folder. I have bounced IIS and
the SMTP server severa
> Anybody recommend any good forums for XSL/XSLT beginners?
>
> Books and all recommendations welcome.
I have a Wrox book by Michael Kay, who knows a thing or two about XSLT.
There used to be a related forum on wrox.com which Michael was on, so you
could always get an answer if your question was i
John, currently we have CF sending out 20k+ emails per day. (Usually within a one hour timeframe). The setup I inherited is all on one box. The site shows delayed responses during this mailing, however it's not too bad. I think the majority of the spped issues have to with bad coding.
I'm currentl
Thanks for getting back to me... sorry, I don't think I've worded it
very well
I've went through the simple tutorials on w3schools, also on zvon.org...
I've got a grasp of the really basic stuff with the basic examples
given.
I'm at the stage where I've got a XML schema and I wanna be able to
> We are using CFMX Enterprise for some internal apps and the
> Oracle drivers work without a hitch.
Good. You'll want to perform the same sort of testing with BlueDragon, as
I'm guessing it uses a different set of JDBC drivers. In the event that you
have any problems with those drivers, or the o
Adam,
Good idea. Any ideas for a way around the waiting while the thousands of
emails are sent by a user? Or are yours done through a scheduled task?
Also, any idea on performace issues etc with doing it as
query=""> vs. ? I'm guessing the
first is better but I'd be interested to hear of any ot
Why not leave CF out of the mail picture entirely, as far as mail list is
concerned. Instead us a list server that provides for an opt-in./ opt-out like
most of the world uses?
With a list server, all you do is send an email to the list, and the server will
distribute it to the subscribers.. T
The "free" BD vs "" CF comes down to politics in our organization.
It was a struggle to get my employer to warm up to CF 4.5. I literally
had to formally donate my copy, make an effective application, then beg
for forgiveness instead of asking for permission. Slowly but surely,
there were conv
>> I wouldn't say the book makes XSLT exactly easy to understand, but I
think that's because XSLT just isn't very easy to understand ;-)
That's exactly what I'm running into... just don't know enough to make
the leaps required at the moment... but ah'll keep trying :-)
Cheers
--
David
[Todays
I send out about 30,000 emails every morning for the BlueEar.com web site. I
created scheduled tasks that compiles the newsletters and then creates a
scheduled task that runs every few minutes and grabs 500 subscribers at a
time for a given subscription (BlueEar.com has multiple subscription
Option
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 07:07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Anybody recommend any good forums for XSL/XSLT beginners?
>
> Books and all recommendations welcome.
>
> Got a loan of the XSLT Cookbook from Or'Reilly*** and that proving to be
> a help (Well good http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/xsltckbk/)
Is there a way to get SQL Cursor output in ColdFusion? It doesn't appear to
be available in the Query Scope.
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Does AOL still require you to be in their address book to receive emails?
Or was this just a vile rumor? We're trying to figure out a small email
list and make sure we don't exclude AOL members...poor SOBs. Is there any
good documentation out there on how to handle this? Or any secret tricks?
T
Rick,
I do the same thing for my onlysimchas.com email lists. I have it set to
send 500 mails every 3 minutes, which is safe.
Last time I bumped it up, I actually ended up causing the CF Mail Spool
delivery thread to die, causing all mail outbound from the site to sit
in the spool forever.
Quite possibly. We had the same problem with proxy servers at a couple
of different companies.
We used this:
to prevent them from caching. I'm not certianit will work in all cases,
but it worked in all of *our* cases. As always, YMMV.
--Ben Doom
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have a we
I had to put my reading glasses on to make sure i was reading the product name correctly.
How do you pronounce it???
>I'm working on setting up the terrific FCKeditor, and was curious if
>anyone had already built an image uploader and/or a image browser to go
>along with this editor. If so, are y
According to MySQL (because I contacted them with a similar question):
"Free use for those who never copy, modify or distribute. As long as you never distribute (internally or externally) the MySQL Software in any way, you are free to use it for powering your application, irrespective of whether yo
This isn't all that odd. in my case the problem is similar, but comes from
another end. My (very large) company won't consider either product because
their both too cheap - and so (goes the management opinion) are not fit for
enterprise use.
We're not allowed to use open source software for the s
>> It does?! Nah, I had no idea ... hitting book store tonight ...
Yeah... mentions the commercial ones then gives a nod to yours... I
could dig out the page no if needed :-)
Cheers for the link to the list... looks like exactly what I was looking
for. Thanks for your help.
--
David
[Todays T
On Wednesday 21 Apr 2004 15:33 pm, Jeff Small wrote:
> Is there a way to get SQL Cursor output in ColdFusion?
Yup, but possibly only from stored procedures.
What CF version ?
--
Tom Chiverton
Advanced ColdFusion Programmer
Tel: +44(0)1749 834997
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BlueFinger Limited
Unde
>> .poor SOBs.
I am one of them :-)... I don't grumble with a pretty good broadband
connection that stays up forever.
Serious question tho... One benefit is that I can at least test my apps
on an AOL browser... how do you do that if you are not a member of AOL?
Is there another way of doing this
>Either way, the server isnt for development only, so someone will make money off it regardless the avenue.
Yes the NFR copies (raffled at CFUGs) are for commercial development and product demos only...NOT hosting live commercial sites.
Susan didn't have an NFR copy...case closed
Bryan Stevenson
On Apr 21, 2004, at 7:48 AM, Jim Davis wrote:
> This isn't all that odd. in my case the problem is similar, but comes
> from
> another end. My (very large) company won't consider either product
> because
> their both too cheap - and so (goes the management opinion) are not
> fit for
> enter
hi all
this problem has nothing to do with coldfusion but I
know some of you may help me out.
I try to have page layout with styles CCS.
in CCS file has
#bg {position:}
#content{}
#navigation{}
in html has
...
It works in my delopment mashine but not in product
mashine. I h
Each email we send is dynamic per a user's settings and options. If it was static across the board I'd agree with you completely.
-adam
> -Original Message-
> From: Doug White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 02:22 PM
> To: 'CF-Talk'
> Subject: Re: Sending lots
I'm afraid that's not enough information to get a concrete answer. It could
any number of things. I would suggest checking out some CSS specific
resources. Most notably the resource page at csszengarden.com and the
css-discuss email list:
http://www.mezzoblue.com/zengarden/resources/
http:/
Just setting a binary lock value in the table will lock it for
everybody, including the person who owns the lock and is allowed to edit
it.
My cms uses an application-scoped 2d array that holds the record's
primary key, the user ID of the person 'owning' the lock and a timestamp
value.
Your CF co
What is management going to do with the logs?
If used for, problem resolution, historical information & periodic
reporting, etc. this is essentially a low-use log and you could log a
lot of information using almost any logging facility.
If, however, management wants immediate access to the logs
who does everyone think is the best CF host for 20 dollars a month. im
hoping to get sql server access as well as host multiple domains (and create
sub domains). thanks.
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At a previous job, we had a system set up where we created a .txt file
with header information and such on it as well as a space for an SQL
statement to grab the names of the people to send to. We'd then feed
the .txt into some special mail program by making a terminal connection
and pasting the t
My main project (CF based) is an online publishing and email broadcasting
system. I used to use ActivMail for sending out broadcasts when we were on
CF5, but found with CFMX that the cfmail tag was VASTLY improved (both
feature-wise and performance-wise) and have moved back to that.
That said,
I did one in CMLite, which is a free download in the MM devex. More
accurately, I spruced up the one included in the download a bit, making
the window resizable, adding scrollbars and making the cffile uploader
more robust.
http://mysecretbase.com/CMLite_Home.cfm
It doesn't use v1.5 though (v.14
$20 total or per domain? You seem to be asking a lot for a CF host to
give you all of that for $20/month total. I can't think of anyone.
John
-Original Message-
From: Wurst, Keith D. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:36 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: best CF host
On Wednesday 21 Apr 2004 16:37 pm, Burns, John D wrote:
> Anyone know of something like that?
You can replace tokens in the file easily enough with reg. exps. in your
favorite language.
--
Tom Chiverton
Advanced ColdFusion Programmer
Tel: +44(0)1749 834997
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
BlueFinger
You are sure asking for a lot for $20 bucks! :-)
SQL server user licenses are not free, ya know, neither is the connectivity.
==
We can get rid of spam on your domain! , Anti-spam solutions
http://www.clickdoug.com/mailfilter.cfm
For hosting solutions http://w
Matt Robertson wrote:
> Just setting a binary lock value in the table will lock it for
> everybody, including the person who owns the lock and is allowed to edit
> it.
>
> My cms uses an application-scoped 2d array that holds the record's
> primary key, the user ID of the person 'owning' the lock
John Burns wrote:
>Some of the lists for clients are upwards of 2,000+
>members. I'm thinking CF could probably handle one
>client at a time doing this, but in the odd situation
>where two people are on at once trying it, I'm afraid
>CF will choke.
Thats not even close to enough mail to worry
I wrote an app that managed some patient data and we used a fairly
generic audit table to capture our audit trail. Because it was generic,
I wrote a UDF to perform the actual logging with very minimal impact.
Below is the SQL to create the table, you will probably have to modify it.
CREATE TABLE
www.nexpoint.net has a $99/yr (see their Win2K special) CF deal, with SQL
Server for an additional $25/yr. Subdomains are available too. Don't know
about multiple domains.
Bear in mind you get what you pay for. They don't yet have CFMX (afaik),
and no control panel (so no adding dsns on your ow
This is WOT for this list, but I know many of you members have
videocams--- so I hope you will give me the benefit of your experience.
My granddaughter's first communion is approaching.
I would like to record the proceedings, etc., so I am in the market for
a digital videocam.
Ideally, it woul
Jochem van Dieten wrote:
>This might be overkill for this application, but nevertheless an
>entertaining read on concurrency control:
22mb zip file. holy cow! :-)
--Matt--
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>I did one in CMLite, which is a free download in the MM devex. More
>accurately, I spruced up the one included in the download a bit, making
>the window resizable, adding scrollbars and making the cffile uploader
>more robust.
>
>http://mysecretbase.com/CMLite_Home.cfm
Sorry, maybe I'm still tir
hah! right? FCK are the initials of teh author. This thing rawks by the way.
Jake,
There should be samples in the download. I used this recently for a PHP site and they were there. I thought I saw CF versions too. If not, shold be able to port the PHP ones quite easily. Could send these t
> On Wednesday 21 Apr 2004 15:33 pm, Jeff Small wrote:
> > Is there a way to get SQL Cursor output in ColdFusion?
>
> Yup, but possibly only from stored procedures.
> What CF version ?
CFMX, does that matter?
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> A boolean _expression_ must take a boolean value, a boolean
> value is either true or false, it cannot take any integer
> value like 20, 20 is NOT a boolean, PERIOD.
You're still missing the fundemental point about a loosely typed language.
There is no such thing as a boolean (nor an integer,
Hello... all
I am looking for a good open source WYSIWYG HTML form field editor control
thingy. Something like SPAW or FCKeditor, I guess a better question is which
one of these is better or more stable. I need to implement one pretty fast
but don't have a lot of time to research them all, so I
Here is the code I got somewhere along the line. It works for an inital insert but to bring it back up to edit an existing article is my problem. I would like to basically recreate this same page but it would display an article that was previously save for editing, like typos or overall text change
Yes you can have the code, its freely available. Just download the tool
and grab browse.cfm, browsefile.cfm (there is also a file browser that
lets you link to stuff) as well as upload.cfm and uploadfile.cfm. These
files are in the root folder.
The files use some settings in /Application.cfm, no
Jochem,
I am not sure this will work, since there are about 30 tables in the schema and each table has various relationships with one another. During the review process, the reviewer can quit anytime and maybe come back later to resume on it. Having said that, there are several starting points
Chris,
You should post this question on the BlueDragon-Interest mailing list,
you'll find many more BlueDragon users there than on this list:
http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/self_help/archive_search/index
.cfm
Of course, New Atlanta's web site is running on BlueDragon. So, yes, we
Well, you could always buy BlueDragon Server JX, which at $549/server is
still cheaper than upgrading to CFMX. As for the question, "who is New
Atlanta?", we've been in business selling server-side Java products since
1997. During that time, we've sold products to over 10,000 customers in 70
countr
IMO your best bet is probably going to be crystaltech.net, though SQL
Server is $27/mo
Pete
Wurst, Keith D. wrote:
> who does everyone think is the best CF host for 20 dollars a month. im
> hoping to get sql server access as well as host multiple domains (and create
> sub domains). thanks.
>
[
That's perfect. Now you can use BlueDragon/J2EE to redeploy all of your
existing CFML applications to WebSphere. We can raise the price from the
current $2500/CPU, if that'll keep your management happy. :-)
Should I have an account rep contact you?
Vince Bonfanti
New Atlanta Communications, LLC
I've been using FCKeditor in several applications for over a year now. I
find it lightweight and easy to use and configure ( I have about 4 different
configurations depending on the complexity of the application).
Walt
-Original Message-
From: Bailey, Neal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Se
Your financial table shouldn't have a reference to a contact. It should
have a reference to an application. That application should then have a
reference to a contact. Then you can add an arbitrary number of records in
the financial table without ever needing worry about the contactID's
referent
I thought MS SQL was licensed per processor. No reason you can't grossly
over-subscribe a SQL server, just like some web hosts badly overload
shared web servers.
You're right though, that's a lot to ask for $20/month. Although in the
php/MySQL world it's easily found. If you look hard enough yo
Okay I'm brain cramping today so forgive the simple request -
I'm working within a CF5 environment on an inherited application that has approximate 30 different files being cfincluded (depending on what the end user is doing) to create a single page (I don't know why the person wrote it this way)
Doug,
Thanks. I was unrated and now have a shopping rating. This should fix the
problem.
Andy
-Original Message-
From: Doug White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:09 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Site being blocked for content
http://sitereview.cwfserv
I don't know how to answer your question, but it sounds like that they
might have written it in FuseBox? That would explain all the files being
included
Ray
http://www.crystalvision.org
At 01:55 PM 4/21/2004, you wrote:
>Okay I'm brain cramping today so forgive the simple request -
>
>I'm
Go download cf_dump from the macromedia exchange.
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Timothy Heald
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The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S. Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have these
Hehe, I wish. It's definitely not FuseBox - from what I've heard (I came onto the project AFTER the developer left) this was his first CF application, leading me to believe he just got 'cfinclude' happy. Now I've taken the time to piece all the code together into 1 file (over 6,000 lines long) ..
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