[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Everyone seems to be mis-interpreting what Kevin meant. Note: He was
> not talking about command completion. The "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious"
> example refers to word completion in the *edit* buffer. For example,
> if I had previously typed the word "super
On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 11:01:58AM -0500, Derek D. Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At some point hitherto, Bob Bell hath spake thusly:
> > It would work with once instance of vim working of multiple buffers.
> > I don't think you can complete from any arbitrary running vim process
> > (that
In a message dated: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:33:12 EST
"Derek D. Martin" said:
>> >Vim can do command completion, but I'm not sure about searching
>> >buffers/files for text insertion completion. OTOH, from what I've
>> >seen thusfar, Bram seems to be making every effort to see that vim has
>> >all t
In a message dated: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:59:36 EST
"Derek D. Martin" said:
>> Can you relate this to my "supercalifragilisticexpeialidocious"
>> example before?
>
>Vim can do command completion, but I'm not sure about searching
>buffers/files for text insertion completion. OTOH, from what I've
On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 08:20:00AM -0500, Kevin D. Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Steven Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > using :make
> >
> > This will run make and if you have error(s) in your code you can move
> > through those using vim.
>
> How automatic is this? Will vim parse th
Steven Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> using :make
>
> This will run make and if you have error(s) in your code you can move
> through those using vim.
How automatic is this? Will vim parse the make and compiler output
and move you to the correct file and line number? Can the user fix
on
On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 05:08:46PM -0500, Bob Bell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Suppose I decide that this looks horrible, and I want to clean this
> > > up. In Emacs I can type a few keys and transmorgify things thusly:
>
> > > Out of curiosity, does VIM do anything like this?
>
> I'
On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 04:57:44PM -0500, Steven Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Emacs has a general scheme for auto-completing keywords. Let's say
> > that I have three files loaded into Emacs, two locally and one
> > remotely (via a ssh connection, for example). Let's say that the file
>
On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 05:14:40PM -0500, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
>
>
> This message isn't intended to start an emacs vs. vi flamewar --
> really, I'm just looking to understand how other people using
> different editors handle these situations.
>
>
>
>
> Emacs has a scheme for handling compila
John Abreau said:
>
>My first connection was via an old thermal-print teletype with a built-in
>110/300 baud acoustic coupler, dialed into a Vax/VMS system at Northeastern
>University. Took about four seconds to print a single line. Now *that*
>was painful!
A TI Silent 700? I used to use one t
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Jason Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> My first 'net connection was over a 2400 baud modem to a Unix server. I
> used that modem for 3 years before I could afford a 14400 modem. I used
> that for s
Since screen depends on pseudo-ttys it's
unlikely that it was around before they
were first implemented...
___
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
> -Original Message-
> From: Derek Martin [mailto:gnhlug@;sophic.org]
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 11:13 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
>
>
> You ain't a young'un... ;-) Ben's in his early-mid 20&
In a message dated: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:41:14 EST
Michael O'Donnell said:
>Here, just FYA, is a pretty good representation of history to help
>you calculate an upper bound for possible values of 'forever'
>
> http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#01
Outstanding! This seems to be an extensio
Just to be picky, the MkLinux timeline ends with DR-3, the last release
backed by Apple Computer. It totally ignores stuff that the community
has been doing since. This matters to me because I use MkLinux Pre-R1 on
my web server.
Maybe I should let the person responsible for the site know about
>>Screen has been around forever, which accomplishes the same thing.
>>And, vim also supports this functionality.
>
>Well, I guess for relatively small values of 'forever' :)
Here, just FYA, is a pretty good representation of history to help
you calculate an upper bound for possible values of '
(Amusingly, I seem to break every generalization you mention :)
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:00:32 EST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:17pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> As I've said before, I suspect that emacs- and perl-users are actually the
>> higher life forms .
The Unix standard screen oriented editor has been vi for a long time. Emacs
was never part of any standard Unix, but was most always provided as an
addon.
I have always advocated that Unix (and Linux) professionals be well versed
in vi. Beyond that it is up to the invididual, and possibly the p
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:08:39 EST
Derek Martin said:
>At some point hitherto, Jerry Feldman hath spake thusly:
>> Before the widspread use of windowing systems, emacs provided the multi-
>> windows support.
>
>Screen has been around forever, which accomplishes the same thing.
>An
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:bscott@;ntisys.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 10:01 PM
> To: Greater NH Linux User Group
> Subject: Re: Humor: Cargo Cult Programming
>
>
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:17pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:06:29 EST
John Abreau said:
>As for invoking it, it turns out to be fairly straightforward. I had to
>download ange-ftp-over-ssh.tar.gz, move the nftp.pl script into
>my PATH, and add a line to my .emacs:
I had a lot of trouble getting ange-ftp to work
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:16:53 EST
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>Footnotes
>-
>[1] Plain Old Telephone Service. The technical term (really!) for what
>most people think is the only kind of phone line.
You mean it isn't? ;)
--
Seeya,
Paul
--
It may look like I'm j
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:03:58 EST
John Abreau said:
>Over a slow connection (like a 56K dialup) that would be painfully
>unresponsive. I hadn't heard about this capability before, but it sounds
>sweet. Running the editor locally and only tunneling the file i/o
>sounds like a ma
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:47:41 EST
"Tom Buskey" said:
>>>On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 03:57:29PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>(granted, I don't do this often, and more times than not, I ssh to
>>the remote machine, co the file from RCS, vi it, etc.)
>
>emacs works well with RCS/CV
I worked on the original Burger King POS in the early '70s. This was a DEC
PDP8M. The modem card did not have a UART or equivalent. To do 1200bps, we
would put the system into a tight loop for the appropriate amount of time,
the neither send or receive a bit. We had to devlop out own protocol.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Geez. *Light* has some latency issues, too. I spent years at 2400 baud
on dialup systems where colored text was considered an advanced feature.
And I'm just a young'un. There are people on the list who remember when
teletypes really did *type*.
I'm only 32 (well ne
Just one more comment.
There were and are many different versions of emacs. Of course there is the
GNU emacs originally written by Richard Stallman. There was the Cambridge
Emacs, the Gossling Emacs, and of course the microemacs, and a few more.
Xemacs (formerly Lucid) is mostly GNU emacs code.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael O'Donnell) writes:
> Heh. All it takes is one additional backslash:
>
> :'a,.! perl -pe 's/^/\#/'
>
>
> There - that wasn't so bad, now - was it?
No, that's reasonable.
I hesitate to mention this, because I'm about to make an unfair
comparison, but I ha
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 11:08am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I miss Turbo Pascal. :)
>
> So, buy Kylix.
Oh, I love Delphi and Object Pascal and the VCL, too, and would be more
interested in Kylix if I was still doing application programming. But
they're just not the same as TP. :-)
--
Be
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 9:58pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I bet today's modem's have similar issues. Is there a market for
> upscale modems? Like the old USR Courier that could do 19,200 when
> 14,4 was the fastest speed?
I think the market for such modems has largely been eliminated. Peo
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:17pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> As I've said before, I suspect that emacs- and perl-users are actually the
> higher life forms ...
I really don't think the choice of tool has much to do with the
sophistication of the user. I think it mostly comes down to personal
pref
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:06pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I'm on a 56K dialup now, and it's not all that much better. I still get
>> frequent lags of anywhere from a few seconds to occasionally a minute or
>> two where the connection simply sits there frozen.
>
> That'
>OTOH, the fact that vi and vim seem to treat some characters as
>"magical" (like '#' and especially '%') really louses me up sometimes,
>at which point I scramble back to emacs.
>
>(I can't :'a,.! perl -pe 's/^/#/' in vim, for example)
Heh. All it takes is one additional backslash:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 9:29pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Ok, the link to tokyo and london had some latency issues but they weren't
> on our network.
Geez. *Light* has some latency issues, too. I spent years at 2400 baud
on dialup systems where colored text was considered an advanced feature.
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 6:06pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm on a 56K dialup now, and it's not all that much better. I still get
> frequent lags of anywhere from a few seconds to occasionally a minute or
> two where the connection simply sits there frozen.
That's bogus. I'm on what I think h
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael O'Donnell) writes:
> As I've said before, I suspect that emacs- and
> perl-users are actually the higher life forms;
Well, that isn't true...
[snip]
> If I had to name some of my favorite vi characteristics
> I'd have to say its regular expression handling and
> parti
John Abreau said:
>
>By that metric, I've never experienced a non-local network connection
>that didn't suck. Not just on dialup, but on attbi, on many corporate
>networks at various contract jobs where both offices were on T1 lines
>in separate cities.
I was lucky enough to work at Genuity for
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Earlier I wrote:
> By that metric, I've never experienced a non-local network connection
> that didn't suck. Not just on dialup, but on attbi, on many corporate
> networks at various contract jobs where b
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Derek Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The probable cause was not latency, but packet loss. If your dial-up
> connection doesn't suck, you shouldn't have a problem.
By that metric, I've never experienc
As I've said before, I suspect that emacs- and
perl-users are actually the higher life forms;
it's just that I don't know how to use them and so
keep falling back on vi and the other tools that I
already know...
As a general answer to pll's queries: vi can't
necessarily do all the goofy things t
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mike ledoux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> For years I did things like this and would've killed for 28.8K dialup,
> let alone 56K. The performance isn't so bad as you seem to think.
> Actually, it should be
Derek Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Let's say that I have the following LaTeX code:
> > (note: the #'s here are complete garbage)
>
> > Suppose I decide that this looks horrible, and I want to clean this
> > up. In Emacs I can type a few keys and transmorgify things thusly:
>
> > Out
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I run Pine, Emacs (text mode), vi, etc., all the time, over my 24K dialup,
> and while it ain't fast, it is generally usable.
I've done the same, over a 56K dialup, and while i
This message isn't intended to start an emacs vs. vi flamewar --
really, I'm just looking to understand how other people using
different editors handle these situations.
Emacs has a scheme for handling compilation of programs. I can type
(something like) M-x compile and the compilation will
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, at 5:03pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> For ability #1, 'ssh remote vi filename' works fine for me, although I
>> usually just use an interactive ssh session.
>
> Over a slow connection (like a 56K dialup) that would be painfully
> unresponsive.
I run Pine, Emacs (text mode)
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mike ledoux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> For ability #1, 'ssh remote vi filename' works fine for me, although I
> usually just use an interactive ssh session.
Over a slow connection (like a 56K dialup) tha
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>
>In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:02:30 EST
>mike ledoux said:
>
>>On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 03:57:29PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>(granted, I don't do this often, and more times than not, I ssh to
>the remote machine, co the file from RCS, vi it, etc.)
emacs
Yes, vim does rectangular block copies:
Place cursor on one corner of desired rectangle.
Say ^V
Move cursor to opposite corner of desired rectangle;
block will be highlighted as you go.
Say y
Move cursor to desired destination for copied block.
Say p
You can delete the
In emacs, you can edit multiple files simultaneously. I don't know about
vim, but in vi, you can cut and paste between files by using the multiple
buffer feature. In emacs you can have multiple windows, displayed
vertically, horizontally or both at the same time if you are a masochist. I
use ed
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:02:30 EST
mike ledoux said:
>On Thu, Nov 14, 2002 at 03:57:29PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well yes, but when you're editing several different files at the same
>> time, it's very convenient to have different emacs buffers with
>> several
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:36:36 EST
"Jerry Feldman" said:
>It is all a matter of personal preference.
Agreed. Before anyone accuses me of attempting to re-kindle
the age-old holy war, I was simply responding to Derek with a
list of things I do constantly in Emacs for which I was
In a message dated: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:17:01 EST
Derek Martin said:
>As for the first one, while it's neat and can be convenient, if you
>can ssh into the system then you can ssh in and run vi(m), with very
>little extra effort.
Well yes, but when you're editing several different files at the s
I think the choice of emacs or vi (or vim) is much of a mater of personal
preference. I come from a shop originally that was entirely emaics
oriented. You edited, emailed, compiled, tested and debugged with emacs.
Before the widspread use of windowing systems, emacs provided the multi-
windows s
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>
>In a message dated: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:30:02 EST
>"Tom Buskey" said:
>
>>> I miss Turbo Pascal. :)
>>
>>Your editor, compiler, debugger and code all on 1 360k floppy. I used
>>to have Turbo C on a 1.2MB floppy too.
>
>I had them both as well. I've since traded them
In a message dated: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:30:02 EST
"Tom Buskey" said:
>> I miss Turbo Pascal. :)
>
>Your editor, compiler, debugger and code all on 1 360k floppy. I used
>to have Turbo C on a 1.2MB floppy too.
I had them both as well. I've since traded them in for a separate
compiler, debug
> That explains a few problems I had with it. Fortunately, I already
> had a
> copy of Turbo Pascal at the time, and was able to reduce my usage of the
> Apple Pascal to a minimum.
>
> I miss Turbo Pascal. :)
So, buy Kylix. I have. Hell: you can even download a free,
usable-but-not-quite-f
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, at 10:26pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> ... "cargo cult programming" ...
>>
>> I like that term.
>
> Just to prevent any mistaken impressions, let me state that it is not
>original to me. See:
Noted.
>> When I was in High School I tried to learn
On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, at 10:26pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> ... "cargo cult programming" ...
>
> I like that term.
Just to prevent any mistaken impressions, let me state that it is not
original to me. See:
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/cargo-cult-programming.html
See also:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, at 5:08pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> It is OFTEN easier in Python to try it than to guess.
>> (Also, easier to try it than to RTFM... :)
>
> While I agree with you, it is with some trepidation. Learning a system
>without learning the hows and why
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