Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

In , on 09/17/2014 at 11:03 PM, Ed Gould said: >It was second nature to speak (with respect) back to people that >had a higher rank. My section head would have roasted me had I found out that I knew he was making a mistake and didn't speak up. Part of respect is honesty, and he wouldn't have

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Sep 17, 2014, at 7:26 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: ---snip I worked for a WO[1] who knew where all the bodies were buried; he never would have done anything as stupid as what you described. For that matter, my company commander would have gotten rid o

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

In <37b5984c-5ec2-4fc2-a02b-70971e5b2...@comcast.net>, on 09/16/2014 at 10:57 PM, Ed Gould said: >I guess you have to know an army type thats been in the service >for over 10 years to understand the "type". I worked for a WO[1] who knew where all the bodies were buried; he never would have d

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Sep 16, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: In <7f788686-4633-42d3-813b-09a0abccb...@comcast.net>, on 09/16/2014 at 08:46 AM, Ed Gould said: On Sep 16, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: Ed Gould wrote: The nightly production meeting was held and I had to ge

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Sep 16, 2014, at 2:34 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: In , on 09/16/2014 at 05:17 AM, Ed Gould said: I had to get up and explain WTF had happened and how I fixed it. Is that like explaining how to ride a bicycle. That is, did it take 20 times longer to explain than to do? I did

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

In <7f788686-4633-42d3-813b-09a0abccb...@comcast.net>, on 09/16/2014 at 08:46 AM, Ed Gould said: >On Sep 16, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: >> Ed Gould wrote: >> >>> The nightly production meeting was held and I had to get up and >>> explain WTF had happened and how I fixed it

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

In , on 09/16/2014 at 05:17 AM, Ed Gould said: >I had to get up and explain WTF had happened and how I fixed it. Is that like explaining how to ride a bicycle. That is, did it take 20 times longer to explain than to do? >There was a grizzled old female first sergeant that didn't like my >ex

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

Ed Gould wrote: >In the Army you weren't supposed to question (her) authority. Ops. No firing squad for you? ;-) >No... I had to go up two floors to the commanding officer and explain it to >him, which I did, but I used nicer language :) Ouch! I think most IBM-MAIN members would also u

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

W dniu 2014-09-16 o 15:06, Paul Gilmartin pisze: On 2014-09-16, at 02:32, R.S. wrote: Question: what is the "proper" purpose of IEFBR14? IMHO this is the only use of IEFBR14 by the users. OK, maybe some tricks with CONDs, but it's marginal. Somtimes because it's the only way to conditionall

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:22:06 +0200, Thomas Berg wrote: >> > >> Sometimes less clearly as "NOT CATALOGUED 2". > >I HATE that one.(That it allocates it as non-catalogued. Can it happen >anymore, BTW ? Was a long time ago...) > Non-SMS? I believe there's an option. PARMLIB? -- gil

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

Behalf Of Thomas Berg Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 9:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin > Sent: Tuesd

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 3:07 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS > > On 2

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Sep 16, 2014, at 6:05 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: Ed Gould wrote: The nightly production meeting was held and I had to get up and explain WTF had happened and how I fixed it. There was a grizzled old female first sergeant that didn't like my explanation as she knew everything. Tha

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On 2014-09-16, at 02:32, R.S. wrote: > > Question: what is the "proper" purpose of IEFBR14? > IMHO this is the only use of IEFBR14 by the users. OK, maybe some tricks with > CONDs, but it's marginal. > Somtimes because it's the only way to conditionally suppress execution of the first step in a

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

Ed Gould wrote: >The nightly production meeting was held and I had to get up and explain WTF >had happened and how I fixed it. There was a grizzled old female first >sergeant that didn't like my explanation as she knew everything. That old b*tch! Based on what did she made that statement? Qual

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Sep 16, 2014, at 3:32 AM, R.S. wrote: --SNIP-- I read the above as "people often use IEFBR14 to create/delete datasets, while they shouldn't do it". Question: what is the "proper" purpose of IEFBR14? IMHO this is the only use of IEFBR

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

W dniu 2014-09-15 o 19:39, John Eells pisze: [...] 1. IEFBR14, in addition to being the smallest program in z/OS as far as I know (and only one instruction longer than the smallest possible program), remains the "most misused program in z/OS history" in my view. Whether DD statements included

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:39:27 -0400, John Eells wrote: > >1. IEFBR14, in addition to being the smallest program in z/OS as far as >I know (and only one instruction longer than the smallest possible >program), remains the "most misused program in z/OS history" in my view. > Whether DD statements in

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

t...@harminc.net (Tony Harminc) wrote: On 2 September 2014 10:32, Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: I use DSLIST, but I assume that invokes IDCAMS. (TSO DELETE also? I haven't tried that.) TSO DELETE has been an IDCAMS command since MVS 2.0; maybe even

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

The utility in question is, of course, IEBEDIT. Shmuel is---of course again---a fixture here; and he once had the capacity to anger me and others. For me at least that time is past; his still combative but increasingly labored and jejune posts now inspire pity instead. This is only my personal v

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

In , on 09/02/2014 at 11:24 AM, John Gilmore said: >IBM provided a utility for reconstituting a job beginning with >step n > 1, No. Nor did one need such a utility. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see We

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

In , on 09/02/2014 at 03:00 PM, Tony Harminc said: >TSO DELETE has been an IDCAMS command since MVS 2.0; maybe even in >SVS, a system I never used. No; the DELETE command for SVS was the old OS/360 DELETE command at a higher service level; VSAM came is as an ICR for OS/VS1 and OS/VS2 R1 (SVS)

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

In <8518961363687357.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on 09/02/2014 at 12:39 PM, Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> said: >(LISTSERV (or is it the sender's MUA?) does strange things to >ampersands.) It's certainly not listserv; I'd guess that it's the web i

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On 2 September 2014 10:32, Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > I use DSLIST, but I assume that invokes IDCAMS. (TSO DELETE also? I haven't > tried that.) TSO DELETE has been an IDCAMS command since MVS 2.0; maybe even in SVS, a system I never used. Tony H.

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

W dniu 2014-09-02 16:49, Norbert Friemel pisze: On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:42:10 -0500, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: Christian D wrote: Is there a difference in using the utility IEFBR14 and IDCAMS in deleting VSAM cluster Dataset ? Absolutely! You use IDCAMS to manage VSAM datasets. IEFBR14 just

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on 09/02/2014 09:31:45 AM: > From: Christian D > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Date: 09/02/2014 09:31 AM > Subject: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > Hi Group, > > Is there a difference in using the util

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:13:53 -0500, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: >Norbert Friemel wrote: > >>Not all IDCAMS-Options are available in JCL, but you can use temporary VSAM >>data sets (DSN=&&amp;MYDSN,DISP=(,PASS)) in JCL (you can't "define" >>temporary data sets with IDCAMS) > >Temp VSAM? Interes

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

Paul Gilmartin wrote: "first step"? Not last? It deletes data sets about to be created? Many readers here are too young to have done any great number of SYSGENs, but they provide an apposite vehicle for discussing such operations. SYSGENs were many-step jobs; and they often failed, not least

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:27:07 -0500, John McKown wrote: >> >>I can only think of two reason people still use IEFBR14 in this >>manner. The first is that it predates the existence of IDCAMS. And so

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

Norbert Friemel wrote: >You can define (and delete) VSAM data with JCL/IEFBR14 for about 25 years now >(MVS/ESA 3.1.0e ?). >http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DGT2D4A0/2.2.3 I'm very well aware of that. That link you provided is also similar (SMS and VSAM) in JCL Ref, f

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:42:10 -0500, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: >Christian D wrote: > >>Is there a difference in using the utility IEFBR14 and IDCAMS in deleting >>VSAM cluster Dataset ? > >Absolutely! You use IDCAMS to manage VSAM datasets. IEFBR14 just simply 'does >nothing'. > You can define

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:27:07 -0500, John McKown wrote: > >I can only think of two reason people still use IEFBR14 in this >manner. The first is that it predates the existence of IDCAMS. And so >"inertia" has set in. The other reason is that by being in JCL, the >DSN, or portion, can be a symbolic pa

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:09:02 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: >This message is less informative that it should be. > I'd even say disinformative. >The value +32767 is of course the [decimal] capacity of a signed >binary halfword, and what we notionally have here is an instance of >control-block field

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 19:01:45 +0530, Christian D wrote: >Hi Group, > >Is there a difference in using the utility IEFBR14 and IDCAMS in deleting >VSAM cluster Dataset ? > >I used to Delete the Cluster Before using IEFBR14 before but now it fails. > > >//DEL EXEC PGM=IEFBR14 > >//TSDD DISP=

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 9:09 AM, John Gilmore wrote: > This message is less informative that it should be. > > The value +32767 is of course the [decimal] capacity of a signed > binary halfword, and what we notionally have here is an instance of > control-block field overflow; but I suspect that t

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

This message is less informative that it should be. The value +32767 is of course the [decimal] capacity of a signed binary halfword, and what we notionally have here is an instance of control-block field overflow; but I suspect that this message is an artefact of the use of IEFBR14---As Elardus

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

You may also have an IDC3009I message. If so, I would check those codes as well. Just a guess, that the IDCAMS handles VSAM better than IEFBR14. IDCAMS is code that works with the VSAM environment better. IEFBR14 is a do nothing program. So may not support this process. CAXWA count of acti

Re: Deleting Cluster Using IEFBR14 or IDCAMS

Christian D wrote: >Is there a difference in using the utility IEFBR14 and IDCAMS in deleting VSAM >cluster Dataset ? Absolutely! You use IDCAMS to manage VSAM datasets. IEFBR14 just simply 'does nothing'. >I used to Delete the Cluster Before using IEFBR14 before but now it fails. Of course