When we bought Traveller, he was in a pasture with several of that
years young ones, he was ten months. One of the others in the pasture
died from "black mold" after we brought Traveller home so I felt like
wow, he coulda ate the bad hay too!
Janice--
even good horses have bad days sometimes.
I am gonna ask my vet has he ever seen any botulism from hay! I
wonder if they call it something else...
Janice
--
even good horses have bad days sometimes.
>>> And as I write this I am wondering why, just seems field mice etc would
>>> accidentally get into the hay... but I have never heard of a single case
>>> of
>>> botulism. In fact, the only bad hay probs I have ever heard of is one case
>>> of a young horse dying from black mold in hay, tha
>>> Round Bales and botulism from the U of TN
>>> http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/horses/pdf/Botulism_1-21-03.pdf
Botulism is one risk, but probably the more common risk is plain old colic.
Horses work through some cases of colic on their own with no medical
intervention, but sometimes it's fa
>>> OK - we would call that long straw. It's not used as a feed stuff over
>>> here - in fact I think it's only used for thatching. I would have thought
>>> it
>>> would make a very pretty energy feed, with the grain still attached. Often
>>> people here with big horses have problems with choke
>>> We use baled hay, probably 70 lb bales, and over the years have found all
>>> sorts of dead stuff in bales: snakes, rodents, pieces of a fawn. Wonder
>>> why it would be that way here in Oregon and less so where you are. It's
>>> very rural here, but you have lots of critters don't you?
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:31:36 -0500, you wrote:
>What IS botulism exactly, and what makes it end up in soil?
It's caused by Botulinum Toxin (the same one used in Botox!) which is
produced by one of the Clostridial bacteria, Clostridia Botulinum.
These bacteria are always present in soil, but can th
What IS botulism exactly, and what makes it end up in soil??
Clostridium botulinum an organism that grows in the absence of oxygen.
It can also survive boiling. It is in soil. It is also in silage
because it is cut lower to the ground which is why we don't feed it to
horses. C.botulinum can be
All hay
> contains dust, especially if the cutting is done really short and
dirt
> is mixed in with the hay, and if the horse doesn't have its head down
> (as it evolved to do while grazing), the dust can go right down the
> airway instead of being flushed out by the nasal secretions. Feeding
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> the most interesting thing you said about all this Mic is that it is
> in SOIL. What IS botulism exactly, and what makes it end up in soil??
>From the Merck Vet Manual
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=h
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> the most interesting thing you said about all this Mic is that it is
> in SOIL. What IS botulism exactly, and what makes it end up in soil??
Round Bales and botulism from the U of TN
http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/h
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> the most interesting thing you said about all this Mic is that it is
> in SOIL. What IS botulism exactly, and what makes it end up in soil??
> (and not just in old canned goods) (and in the plastic surgeons
> office)
H
On Apr 7, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Mic Rushen wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:21:01 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> What we call oat hay has never been threshed -- it has the seed heads
>> still attached.
>
> OK - we would call that long straw. It's not used as a feed stuff over
> here - in fact I think it's onl
the most interesting thing you said about all this Mic is that it is
in SOIL. What IS botulism exactly, and what makes it end up in soil??
(and not just in old canned goods) (and in the plastic surgeons
office)
Janice
--
even good horses have bad days sometimes.
> >square bales are really clean oat hay
>
> Oat hay? As in, made from oats? I think we would call that straw over
> here
i thought oats in the green form got some sort of fungus that was
toxic. I was allowing Jaspar to graze growing oats in a field we
passed one day and a man told me that
>
> There was a recent report here of a woman who was killed when two large
> bales fell on her - another large bale fatal event.
>
> Nancy
>
well if you want to put it in that perspective :) I guess I was
almost killed once by a round bale. Stonewall decided on a ride
across a strangers field to
>
> Ah, I think we have that country difference cropping up again! Here,
> most hay fields are a maximum of 5 acres, most are much smaller.
>
i think of wales in photos i have seen, endless ENDLESS lush green
rolling hills, a cliff, and the sea. Or is that scotland... but
thats my impression!
> We fed it one year when there was a drought. The horses thrived on
> it. But then they seem to thrive no matter what...
>
> Seems to me I did supplement with alfalfa cubes that year as well...
The 2 girls here seem to be thriving on it but I also supplement with
some fortified low starch bag
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:21:01 -0700, you wrote:
>What we call oat hay has never been threshed -- it has the seed heads
>still attached.
OK - we would call that long straw. It's not used as a feed stuff over
here - in fact I think it's only used for thatching. I would have
thought it would make a
On 07/04/2008, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In the states, straw is what is baled after a combine goes through the oat
> field and harvests the grain heads. What remains in mown down and baled for
> straw. Oat hay is processed just like any other hay, with the grain heads
> intact.
Oat hay? As in, made from oats? I think we would call that straw over
here
In the states, straw is what is baled after a combine goes through the oat
field and harvests the grain heads. What remains in mown down and baled for
straw. Oat hay is processed just like any other hay, with the
> Oat hay? As in, made from oats? I think we would call that straw over
> here
What we call oat hay has never been threshed -- it has the seed heads
still attached.
Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA
http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/
http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/HighPoint/
On Apr 7, 2008, at 3:48 AM, Karen Thomas wrote:
I think the main difference is that bad small bales may cause
respiratory
problems, coughing etc which is a real nuisance, but improperly
baled large
bales can cause botulism, which is fatal.
>
>
> That's not what I read la
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:38:38 -0400, you wrote:
>My
>square bales are really clean oat hay
Oat hay? As in, made from oats? I think we would call that straw over
here
Mic
Mic (Michelle) Rushen
---
> these are interesting things to wonder about i think! vey
> interesting!
There was a horse that died from botulism in the next county lasy year
- I think they tied it to their hay but I'm not positive and I don't
know what kind of hay they fed. AT one barn where I kept Doppa in the
north
But honestly, I have never once heard of a dead critter in a bale or roll
of hay in all the years I have had horses
We use baled hay, probably 70 lb bales, and over the years have found all
sorts of dead stuff in bales: snakes, rodents, pieces of a fawn. Wonder
why it would be that way he
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:28:46 -0500, you wrote:
>Just doesnt happen! I wonder if it has something to do with most
>hayfields being 50-100 acres of open fields surrounded by lush wooded
>habitat that animals would naturally prefer?
Ah, I think we have that country difference cropping up again! He
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:48:18 -0400, you wrote:
> including being more commonly
>associated with heaves and COPD, even when the round bales are used in the
>pasture.
That surprises me as round bales (at least in the UK) are made with
higher moisture content which stops the formation of the spore
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:28:46 -0500, you wrote:
> I have never once heard of a dead critter in a bale or roll
>of hay in all the years I have had horses
I have - I saw a dead fox in a round bale my next door neighbour fed
to her horses (with no ill effects whatsoever, sods law - if it was me
the wh
I think the main difference is that bad small bales may cause
respiratory problems, coughing etc which is a real nuisance, but
improperly baled large bales can cause botulism, which is fatal.
There was a recent report here of a woman who was killed when two large
bales fell on her - another la
>>> I think the main difference is that bad small bales may cause respiratory
>>> problems, coughing etc which is a real nuisance, but improperly baled large
>>> bales can cause botulism, which is fatal.
That's not what I read last night when I went to review why I have such strong
feelings ag
On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Mic Rushen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:42:29 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >In my experience, small square bales can have just as much mould if
> >improperly baled as the large round bales if improperly baled.
>
> I think the main difference is that ba
Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti:
> I think the main difference is that bad small bales may cause
> respiratory problems, coughing etc which is a real nuisance, but
> improperly baled large bales can cause botulism, which is fatal.
But the number of horses that have to be put down because
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 16:42:29 -0600, you wrote:
>In my experience, small square bales can have just as much mould if
>improperly baled as the large round bales if improperly baled.
I think the main difference is that bad small bales may cause
respiratory problems, coughing etc which is a real nuisa
I used to stack my square bales on pallets in my barn (no hay loft) until
the varmints (skunks) decided that was a great place to live (under the
hay - between the two layers of the pallets). If I were going to stack my
hay on pallets again I would be sure they fit snugly against each other a
On 06/04/2008, Lynn Kinsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We've got pallets ( set 2x5) on the side of the driveway on gravel near
> where I park the trailer. The pallet bed is covered with plywood (to
> keep out the mice, ground squirrels and soil wetness) and the bales are
> stacked there.
Plywood
Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I notice you listed most of
> the folks who commented on this thread except for Laree and me, so I assume
> this was directed at us.<
Nope, not at all.I was just thanking folks who had remarked on what they do
in their own less-than-ideal h
On Apr 6, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Janice McDonald wrote:
> . I had to toss
> a half roll yesterday from all the rain. But I dont have anywhere to
> keep square bales either and they get wet all the way through easier
> etc.
After 20 years with no covered hay storage and buying only 20-25 bales
a mont
i think I understood what you meant Karen. sometimes when we talk we
forget people might do what we say which could be disastrous where
they are. The way it works here pound by pound, sq bales are almost
double in price. People don't really use them unless they can buy in
bulk and have storage.
On 06/04/2008, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just remember what may be merely a less than "perfect system" in one area
> can be downright dangerous (fatal) in another.
In my experience, small square bales can have just as much mould if
improperly baled as the large round bales if impro
>>> One sideline point I'd like to make here: Sometimes, when a subject
>>> comes up, it is not as educational to learn how someone manages within a
>>> "perfect system", but more helpful to see how someone manages within the
>>> less-than-perfect system.For example, Susan mentioned needin
On 06/04/2008, Kaaren Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We did this two years in a row & then didn't have any invaders for 3 years.
> We had to do it again this year.
We had a badger move in a couple of years ago and basically our
gophers are gone...but their holes are still an issue.
The badge
>our pasture is filled with gopher holes<
We used to have a terrible problem with both gophers & ground squirrels in
our paddocks &lawn. First we tried the trapping & re-location..a miserable
failure.. then we tried those vibration emitting things you put in the
ground (worthless!!). Really do
On 05/04/2008, Renee Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One sideline point I'd like to make here: Sometimes, when a subject
> comes up, it is not as educational to learn how someone manages within a
> "perfect system", but more helpful to see how someone manages within the
> less-than-perfect s
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 7:08 AM, Kaaren Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Had to tack $20.00 onto our hay bill<
>
> Out here in Calif., our timothy hay went up in price in TWO MONTHS $4.00 per
> 80lb compresed bale to $24.00(yes, TWENTY FOUR DOLLARS!!!) per bale.
>
> Oat hay is now $19.95 for a s
Thanks to everyone who commented on the feeding of round bales. Wanda --
oh man, that's some gorgeous looking hay you've got there. Whatever you and
your hay man are doing, keep doing it. It works!
I see a lot of people feeding their horses with round bales by me. I think
this is because
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:14:49 -0700, you wrote:
>The wrapped bales you generally see are sileage which is for cattle. When
>they do hayage for horses - the principle is similar but the hay is dried
>for longer than it is with sileage and then wrapped in plastic.
That's what we use, ir works reall
those marshmellows dont work so hot here. too humid, they sweat.
Janice
--
even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Hi Dee
>>Does anyone have experience with this method of storage re: mold issues
and horse-particular issues?
The wrapped bales you generally see are sileage which is for cattle. When
they do hayage for horses - the principle is similar but the hay is dried
for longer than it is with sileage and
>>>Around here (Connecticut) I see a lot of "Marshmallow" round bales out
in fields. These are bales that have been sealed in some form of
shrinkwrap white plastic.
Does anyone have experience with this method of storage re: mold issues
and horse-particular issues?
That is the way hay is sto
wow. man. that sure is nice and green! our tarp is so heavy one
person can't move it. It is a tarp truck drivers use to carry what
they are hauling. My husbands truck driver friend gave it to us
because he bought a new one.
Janice--
even good horses have bad days sometimes.
>>> This hay is from a hay field that is mostly grass with a tiny bit of
>>> alfalfa
>>> in it. There is very little mould as it seems our hay guy knows when to
>>> cut
>>> and bale it. We're very happy with it.
That wouldn't work here. I'm not saying that it won't work for YOU, Wanda,
w
> When they build highways or do upgrades they always seed the ditches
> with grass and alfalfa. You can make an application to the RM to be
> allowed to cut a certain portion of the ditch. AND yes, road kill can
> often end up in a bale if you aren't careful. I've seen some people
> walk the
On 02/04/2008, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know what you mean...? What is roadside grass and why is it more
> prone to dead critters? Do you Canadians literally bale your highway right
> of way grass? I've never seen that done in the USA...
When they build highways or do u
oh man, when I drive by endless acres of mowed lawn all I can think of
is what a waste.
Janice
--
even good horses have bad days sometimes.
On 4/2/08, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> i think you can get mold, critters etc from square bales!
>
>
> Sure you can. It's just that mold, etc., is easier to find in the smaller
> bales.
yes, but we peel our large rolls so it works the same. I bet wanda
has less incidence of
>>> We dont do any roadside grasses here, that kinda threw me too, altho my
>>> husband and I often discuss why doesnt the DOT allow hay people to mow
>>> the right of ways instead of tax dollars paying people to do it, would
>>> be good for hay people and horses too etc, and then we mused that
i dont think I have ever seen or heard of fescue here. In south GA
they have a hay called "World Feeder" have you heard of that?
Supposed to be perfect nutrition...
we dont have alicia either. we have tifton 85, tifton 9 (horses hate
it), coastal, and perennial peanut, some times clover but it c
i think you can get mold, critters etc from square bales!
Sure you can. It's just that mold, etc., is easier to find in the smaller
bales.
Karen Thomas, NC
here, it seems desirable for the bales to be packed tighter, maybe
less humid air?? Also, there has to be so many hours drying time
after a cutting. If dew falls on it or God forbid, rain, its usually
sold as cow hay by reputable growers. But I have had some sell it to
me cheap and say "its gonn
>>> i wonder if your hays are higher in sugar and carbs than ours and thus
>>> tend more toward mold. I was surprised to learn our top quality hay is
>>> considered inferior in a lot of paces--- coastal bermuda.
I don't know, Janice, but I DO suspect there are differences from grass to
grass.
yes Laree, I guess even a small little dead field mouse or baby rabbit
nest uncovered by the hay tractor could cause botulism as bad as a big
critter! I get flying roaches in mine sometimes, I aint kidding! My
hay man stores his in a huge barn, and when he delivers my chickens
have a field day al
On 4/2/08, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We use round bales and personally I would never go back to using
> > square. We don't free feed though, we pick through and feed
> > individual portions just as we would if we were still feeding square.
>
>
> I think that's key with any hay a
>>> Personally I would never use bales that were from roadside grass.
I don't know what you mean...? What is roadside grass and why is it more
prone to dead critters? Do you Canadians literally bale your highway right
of way grass? I've never seen that done in the USA...
>>> We're lucky th
i think you can get mold, critters etc from square bales! But every
time we ever talk about hay on these lists it always comes down to
regional differences... Like here I would be terrified of alfalfa.
So many horses die from it, a whole herd in a matter of hours in
Birmingham just relatively so
>>> I have always heard that round bales are more prone to have things (like
>>> dead critters) in them and are packed tighter than square bales. This
>>> combination can lead to the organism that causes botulism.
And they are so much more prone to mold. If a "square" bale (that's what
the fa
we dont feed free choice round bales, it makes some too fat. It is
more work, but worth the money savings to us to peel or gather up
armfuls of hay twice a day. Then in my pasture with skimpy almost non
existent grass, we put out a whole roll and then give them turnout
into that pasture and I thi
On 4/2/08, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> I don't have my horses home yet so I haven't purchased hay yet but I'm
> afraid of round bales--aren't they the ones that can sicken a horse? V
>
>
> I won't feed them, and I don't know many people in my area who will. They
> aren't recomme
> We use round bales and personally I would never go back to using
> square. We don't free feed though, we pick through and feed
> individual portions just as we would if we were still feeding square.
Even with square bales, I shake out every flake to make sure there is
nothing hiding in there a
> We use round bales and personally I would never go back to using
> square. We don't free feed though, we pick through and feed
> individual portions just as we would if we were still feeding square.
I think that's key with any hay and that's how I've seen round bales
used successfuly.
--
Lare
On 02/04/2008, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have always heard that round bales are more prone to have things
> (like dead critters) in them and are packed tighter than square bales.
> This combination can lead to the organism that causes botulism.
Personally I would never use bale
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Renee Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> .> We only give them exactly 9 leafs of hay for 9 horses and safe the
> extras leafs from the bales. Most of our bales of hay some have 12 to 14
> leafs of hay in a bale of hay. <
I have always heard that round bales are m
>>> I don't have my horses home yet so I haven't purchased hay yet but I'm
afraid of round bales--aren't they the ones that can sicken a horse? V
I won't feed them, and I don't know many people in my area who will. They
aren't recommended for horses by vets and the agriculture agents here. I
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:41:02 -0400, you wrote:
>Is there a lot of waste?
Not if you use a feeder for them - if you put them on the ground and
it's muddy then there is a fair bit of waste. If it's not muddy the
horses tend to clear it all up.
How do you
>move them around?
Do you use a trac
Hi Renee, we've been feeding round bales now for a couple of years.
We stack them on wooden pallets and cover them the moment they come
home. Depending on where they are in the pile there may be some
wastage, but overall they stay nice and green over winter (I should
take a pic of the one we just
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Pat Grimmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Renee,
>
> I feed with round bales...
>
I don't have my horses home yet so I haven't purchased hay yet but I'm
afraid of round bales--aren't they the ones that
can sicken a horse?
V
Hi Renee,
I feed with round bales...
When I first started feeding with them I would have my neighboring farmer
deliver one whenever I needed one. His tractor was not capable of tipping
them up on end though and it would take at least three of us to do so. I
would then roll the round bale
Renee Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: .> We only give them exactly 9 leafs of
hay for 9 horses and safe the
extras leafs from the bales. Most of our bales of hay some have 12 to 14
leafs of hay in a bale of hay. <
What does a leaf of your hay weigh, or one of your bales? I'm curious how
Janice, (and anyone else that feeds round bales)
I have been thinking of getting some round bales this year. It seems
they are getting to be easier to find as they require less handling and work
for the farms putting hay up. I've never fed using round (or big square)
bales
before, so I h
.> We only give them exactly 9 leafs of hay for 9 horses and safe the
extras leafs from the bales. Most of our bales of hay some have 12 to 14
leafs of hay in a bale of hay. <
What does a leaf of your hay weigh, or one of your bales? I'm curious how
much everyone is feeding for maintainence
Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: i was thinking... probably people
who feed a forage that has to be
shipped in from far off, like alfalfa is here, I bet it would
skyrocket. But my hay comes from about 40 miles away.
Janice
--
We buy 100 every other month. Back in Sept we started to
i was thinking... probably people who feed a forage that has to be
shipped in from far off, like alfalfa is here, I bet it would
skyrocket. But my hay comes from about 40 miles away.
Janice
--
even good horses have bad days sometimes.
>Had to tack $20.00 onto our hay bill<
Out here in Calif., our timothy hay went up in price in TWO MONTHS $4.00 per
80lb compresed bale to $24.00(yes, TWENTY FOUR DOLLARS!!!) per bale.
Oat hay is now $19.95 for a standard bale.
Kaaren
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