Alan Altmark wrote:
On Monday, 07/24/2006 at 06:35 ZE2, Carsten Otte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But rather than focus on that edge condition, we are all, I think,
in
violent agreement that you cannot take a volume-by-volume physical
backup
from outside a running Linux system and expect to have
Ingo Adlung wrote:
Whether the file system is consistent in itself after a restart is
irrelevant form an application perspective if the application has e.g.
state that is independent from the file system content. You can only
capture that by application collaboration or by forcing that state
Stahr, Lea wrote:
FDR says working as designed. They back up the entire volume and restore
the entire volume. I have restored 3 systems and they DO NOT BOOT.
How does FDR copy the volume? Do they sequentially copy track-by-track
or use flashcopy?
cheers,
Carsten
David Boyes wrote:
Therefore, dm-snapshot and
flashcopy are two sides of the same medal once the entire filesystem
is on a single dasd.
That's a pretty large assumption, especially since the recommended
wisdom for most advanced applications -- like DB/2 and WAS -- is *not*
to put things
J Leslie Turriff wrote:
Earlier in this thread there was mention of using clustering
services to avoid outages while doing backups. Wouldn't that involve
the same sort of data-in-flight issues?
If the data is shared among the nodes, like with nfs or a cluster
filesystem, yes.
with kind
fast because it does not actually
copy data
b) use dd to copy the snapshot to a backup dasd while writing to the
original disk
c) destroy the snapshot again
cheers,
Carsten
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with lvm).
cheers,
Carsten
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that would work when implemented proper. Very clever, Rob!
regards,
Carsten
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Dominic Coulombe wrote:
I'm sorry, but we managed to do live backup of our systems without any
problem. We restored a lot of backup and all were recoverable without any
problem. Even when data was stored on LVM volumes.
We stop our databases prior to do the backup, sync the filesystems, do
David Boyes wrote:
One more time: Unless your Linux systems *are completely down* at
the
time of backup, full volume dumps from outside the Linux system are
more
than likely to be useless.
Can you explain why is that ?
Linux performs in-memory caching to a much greater degree than most
Alan Altmark wrote:
If you *do* know how the application is implemented and fully understand
the relationships of all the files, then you can build customized backup
strategies.
You can just put all relevant files on a single dasd (for flashcopy)
or LVM volume (for dm-snapshot). Seems easy
31bit every night, and that we do regression test as
described. Linux _runs_ on G5 and up. We _support_ GA distributions
from SuSE and RedHat.
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applies
equally for both 64bit and 31bit kernels.
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Mark D Pace wrote:
Why is the GNOME Desktop Environment a default selection for s390x?!?!
It does'nt make sense to me either.
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everything compiles and runs for 31bit and 64bit.
Testing is mostly done on 64bit these days, but our developerworks
source code streams are also regression tested as 31bit binary.
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Marian Gasparovic wrote:
Are there any other possibilities to share fs r/w ?
A very fast and smart way to do that is to use a cluster filesystem.
The current state-of-the art filesystem for that is Oracle cluster
filesystem (despite the name it works for all data/applications). I
would trust it
last info was that RH does'nt sell or support GFS for 390.
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Carsten Otte wrote:
My last info was that RH does'nt sell or support GFS for 390.
Translation problem: I mean latest info.
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Thomas David Rivers wrote:
1 - A mainframe CPU is about as fast as a PIII
(snip)
Now - how do we break-down the arguments and address them?
My personal favorite measure to address it is:
- I get annoyed when compiling a linux kernel for my good old PIII laptop
computer at home, because I can
web site if GFS is supported on Linux on zSeries (31-bit or
64-bit) and I don't have a Red Hat system at hand to check.
OCFS is very nice work, but be aware that we have'nt tested
it yet.
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dcssblk.segments=first,second,last
In order to automate that, putting the parameter into /etc/modules.conf
automagically adds the parameter to the module whenever it gets loaded.
cheers,
Carsten
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issues. You need an strace that
follows the forks, also try
$bash echo 1 /proc/sys/kernel/userprocess_debug
and check the output in dmesg.
If you can compile with gdb debug info, gdb will also tell you where it
crashed...
cheers,
Carsten
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Brian Nelson wrote:
Also, does anyone know if the IBM developers are planning on releasing a
3590 OCO module for 2.6.16?
Yes. For the time being, the 2.6.15 module should work just fine when
loading with insmod -f.
Carsten
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). As opposed to trading files that
are protected by copyright, there is no legal reason not to use bt for
oss/copyleft data.
Carsten
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projects. We
do level3 customer service in critical customer situations where either
the customer requires fast soloution or where regular service fails to
identify/fix the problem. My prefered tool to do my daily job is emacs
;-).
cheers,
Carsten
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:
- no request building/merging
- no device plug mechanism
- no IO schedulers
- no start subchannel and interrupt semantics
- just synchronous memcopy
Carsten
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Post, Mark K wrote:
Eventually, we'll be giving everyone accounts on the system, so please
send me your preferred userid, and I'll set them up at the appropriate
time.
I would like userid cotte, please. This is fantastic, Marc.
mit freundlichem Gruß
Carsten
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IO virtualization and virtual
(pageable) guest memory.
Carsten
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it will work with any future kernel version...
just thinking loud here...
Carsten
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alien to convert it to your
preferred package format and install it.
You can obtain alien here:
http://kitenet.net/programs/alien
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Rob van der Heij wrote:
It does not get much more off-topic than this, but with the new
technology you have to act quick ;-) I started a frappr map for the
linux390 community members.
Interresting to see that there are no linux390 community members in
Boeblingen ;-)
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Kittendorf, Craig wrote:
We are upgrading from a 9672-R76 toe z890-370. I have SuSE Linux SLES
S/390 Version 7.2.0-0 (Kernel 2.4.7) running in an LPAR (no z/VM).
Will this release run unchanged on the z890?
Yes it will. We're on zSeries ;-)
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control tools.
Several guest operating systems are supported, including Windows,
Linux and NetWare. The most notable omission is Solaris x86.
quoted from: http://www.itweek.co.uk/itweek/software/2085877/vmware-esx-server
cheers,
Carsten
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://www.vmware.com/community/thread.jspa?threadID=27412
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).
For a few large backup files, the filesystem overhead is almost zero.
Therefore I don't think samba will have significant overhead here either.
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the content of /var/log/messages that corresponds
with previous startup?
cheers,
Carsten
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Should I install 「s390_oco-2.6.5-7.201.s390x.rpm」
package or use OCO module on devloppers site?
Yes, you need to have the oco module to operate the drive.
hope this helps,
Carsten
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exists where MDC for non-shared
mdisks outperforms reasonable distribution of the available
storage to the linux images. Would you care to show such
measurement?
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images within a VM.
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the
memory you spend on mdc versus the performance boost you get from it.
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modify the include files. I'd like to second Mark's
suggestion.
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...
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mailfile):
http://gcc.gnu.org/install/specific.html
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see ftp://www6.software.ibm.com/software/developer/linux390/docu/l26bhe00.pdf
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run into - regardless of the machine type.
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John Summerfied wrote:
Comments?
First they ignore you, then they laugh about you, then they fight you, and then
you win. (Nelson Mandela)
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Kielek, Samuel wrote:
I'm pretty sure that was Gandhi who came up with that statement...
Although, I would not be surprised if Mandela quoted Gandhi.
Mea maximum culpa. It was Gandhi indeed.
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personally would'nt bet data on it that I get fired for in case it gets
lost because it is not tested/supported on zSeries Linux - but from the
hacker standpoint it works.
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be to have a ramdisk or z/VM DCSS as swap target, or to go
to church once a week ;-).
cheers,
Carsten
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shogunx wrote:
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005, Carsten Otte wrote:
It *should* work as
far as I can tell, but be aware that you can run into nasty deadlocks once
you don't have a local swap disk: you'll need networking for paging/disk IO,
and once linux is hard out of memory networking is suspended until
the module with
a similar tape device driver because the 3590 module does not have too
much dependencies on the rest of the kernel: do build 3480 support into
your kernel (or as module), then use insmod -f to load the OCO beast.
good luck,
Carsten
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replacement for your x86 boxes in the end.
Be aware that you do need proper tuning, a performance monitor is really
helpful to understand how to fine-tune a system to meet the requirements.
Is Barton on vacation? ;-)
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for analysis.
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it) requires a
skilled system programmer who is willing to dig into this. An appliance-type
inflate an forget installation would definitely help.
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the timeout, we continue startup with the
assumption that there is no such device. If we get a
response after the timeout has expired, we set the device
online, but that may be too late for devices that need
to be present for startup (rootfs and such).
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consider reporting it as PMR?
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family [ext2, ext3], which makes many people
(including me)
think that it will become the soloution of choice for most people.
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Adam Thornton wrote:
But you really shouldn't be doing this. The file system should be
read-only to EVERYONE.
I would strongly second that.
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ro. Also saves you from attempts to update atime, mtime etc...
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/elsewhere
which does mount a subdirectory of a mounted filesystem somewhere else.
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John Summerfied wrote:
Carsten Otte wrote:
Rick Troth wrote:
Lock the file.
Or have the device driver enforce single access.
But why lock? CP can handle multiple parralel diag8
As I recall someone asserted there's a problem getting the proper cp
feedback at present. VM return codes
must be preserved for use by the script.
Then use a scripting language that can do multiple commands on an open
file descriptor [=session]. Like Perl or so.
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hammers.
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John Summerfied wrote:
Or, is someone going to tell me hotplug's doing it wrongly?
No, udev is fine. But it's not doing session-alike work.
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to a script? As I recall that
was one of the problems raised early in the thread.
The return code delivery to the script is a pure userspace problem. My
comment is about the interface to the system kernel.
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call programs that handle the details for them.
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a seperate filesystem.
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interoperate cleanly.
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Fargusson.Alan wrote:
Actually a architecture specific system call might be the right thing
to do, but I suspect it would be hard to get it implemented.
Full agree. Also for to the but...
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... capability mask per diag subcode would be proper access control
indeed. Looks like I am running out of arguments ;-).
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to handle it, you'll always
see _your_ response.
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That would be limited to a single user as far as I can see. What if
script A wants to set buffer size to 1024 then execute its favorite
command while script B wants to set buffer size to 4096 then execute
its command? This is racy!
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? It's safe against races _because_ it splits the whole
thing into a userspace program that keeps an open file handle and a kernel
component that can identify subsequent calls by that handle.
I don't really get where the problem with that one is, could you elaborate
where you see the issue?
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be unavailable.
All those issues don't exist with the current
implementation.
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John Summerfied wrote:
Rick Troth wrote:
218 == real CPU ID info (for licensing, if nothing else)
In my ignorance, I'd expect to see that in /proc/cpuinfo
Isn't that what cpuinfo displays today? If no, how does it
differ?
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subchannels on the mainframe.
I fail to see your proposed connection to diag8, and which attributes one
would modify on it (power state, online/offline and such does'nt apply).
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CMS applications in Linux
instead of porting them seems queer for me. I don't think you will be able to
integrate such thing into the vanilla kernel.
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Alan Altmark wrote:
On Wednesday, 10/12/2005 at 01:56 ZE2, Carsten Otte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
C8 == CP set language function
Afaics that can be done via diag8 as well!?
Actually, no. There is no CP SET LANGUAGE command. The diagnose is
useful so that the user's CP responses can
). For a device driver, sending a signal event (SIGIO)
via kill_fasync() seems clean to me.
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would be very useful for me.
Think of it as the foundation for pam_vmcp.
Hm. So what the diagnose does is check if a given user/pass combination
is valid for CP?
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and basically you get a pipeline to send
and receive messages [packets in the IP world].
Not all features of the network stack apply to IUCV, but a char device is
lacking the connect/disconnect and addressing scheme that networking
implies.
For me, that sounds like network. What am I missing?
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authentication
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an environment
variable, say CPRC, cannot be set to some number that just happens to be
the same as the CP return code.
Goood idea. I like the environment variable thing. This is the right
soloution (tm).
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environment that did do the vmcp command before.
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or they cannot find any more time to
work on it.
These rules certainly only apply to volunteer projects.
Never ever work like this for money ;)
Writing code that can be maintained by other people easily is always
a good idea - regardless of paychecks.
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for their enterprise customers and that they consider stable,
even if it is not upstream.
Thus RH doesn't have cpint because it is'nt upstream.
Thus RH might probably choose to have vmcp one day because it
is upstream.
No force feed involved.
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of the patches come from sources other than upstream.
The source is usually the Boeblingen team, but only patches that are
integrated upstream get accepted. Thus you're guessing wrong.
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being a scripting language dyslexic that probably takes implementation
by someone who knows better.
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]...
I really do think that a character device is the right thing here: You
write a command into it and read the response from it. And it's neither a
file on your disk nor a pipe to another app nor a network socket.
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pointed out the diagnose 250 dasd device module
as another example, the functionality can be used via the
block device interface.
Which concrete diagnose codes do you think are useful to
be called from Linux userspace different from diag8?
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return codes.
No. The Linux kernel should return Linux error codes. This way you get
reasonable messages like out of memory, localized in the language the user
has chosen. Users don't expect to see CP return values in Linux.
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,whatever) in my scripting code, and perhaps also a -q option to
say, emit no output to either stdout or stderr, just tell me the
return code.
I like that suggestion. Sounds reasonable to me.
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Post, Mark K wrote:
Oh, God, no. XML is the devil's spawn for stuff like this. Human
readable/scriptable is the way to go.
I would like to second that.
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for Linux. A return value of zero is defined to
indicate that everything is perfectly well. A positive return value in
the range from 1-255 is supposed to have a user-defined semantics
depending on the application.
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author.
If noone cares to maintain a device driver anymore, it is responsibility of
the subsystem or architecture maintainer to make sure things keep working.
That's why subject maintainer has the right to veto code that he thinks
does not meet his expectations.
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Alan Altmark wrote:
Eh? CP has *thousands* of return codes. I is just Plain Wrong to try to
map them to the smaller name space of the Linux return code.
Good point. me adds mapping CP return value to Linux rc to his list of bad
ideas.
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