Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Admin note: On 8 January 2022 14:34:03 Slavko via mailop wrote: To concretize it to this topic: goggle's mailbox is not reliable for receiving DMARC reports, even for low traffic individuals/SMBs. Please, stop, it's already dead. Or for those unfamiliar with the phrase - unless there's som

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Ahoj, Dňa Fri, 7 Jan 2022 11:18:21 -0800 Brandon Long via mailop napísal: > Google is providing a service to users at a price with a set of > limits. There are many > limits to the system, as there are limits to the mail systems other > companies provide. I had two simple questions and you resp

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Fri 07/Jan/2022 19:56:33 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 1:40 AM Alessandro Vesely wrote: On Thu 06/Jan/2022 20:02:48 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 5:55 AM Alessandro Vesely wrote: On Wed 05/Jan/2022 21:25:35 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: On Wed, Jan 5, 20

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 1:40 AM Alessandro Vesely wrote: > On Thu 06/Jan/2022 20:02:48 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 5:55 AM Alessandro Vesely wrote: > >> On Wed 05/Jan/2022 21:25:35 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: > >>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:49 AM Alessandro Vesely > wrote:

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 2:47 AM Slavko via mailop wrote: > Ahoj, > > Dňa Thu, 6 Jan 2022 11:02:48 -0800 Brandon Long via mailop > napísal: > > > On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 5:55 AM Alessandro Vesely > > wrote: > > > > > For a different question, if google has proper methods and checks to > > > receiv

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Ahoj, Dňa Thu, 6 Jan 2022 11:02:48 -0800 Brandon Long via mailop napísal: > On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 5:55 AM Alessandro Vesely > wrote: > > > For a different question, if google has proper methods and checks to > > receive DMARC reports, why doesn't it deploy them for hosted domains > > too? Th

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Thu 06/Jan/2022 20:02:48 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 5:55 AM Alessandro Vesely wrote: On Wed 05/Jan/2022 21:25:35 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:49 AM Alessandro Vesely wrote: On Wed 05/Jan/2022 00:32:57 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: There is the dm

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 5:55 AM Alessandro Vesely wrote: > On Wed 05/Jan/2022 21:25:35 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:49 AM Alessandro Vesely > wrote: > >> On Wed 05/Jan/2022 00:32:57 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: > >> > >>> There is the dmarc address that Google itself uses,

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Wed 05/Jan/2022 21:25:35 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:49 AM Alessandro Vesely wrote: On Wed 05/Jan/2022 00:32:57 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: There is the dmarc address that Google itself uses, dmarc-nore...@google.com , it sometimes has

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:49 AM Alessandro Vesely wrote: > On Wed 05/Jan/2022 00:32:57 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: > > > I didn't see anyone address the original problem here much, so here > > are some details about this. > > > Thanks! > > > > There is the dmarc address that Google itself uses, > >

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 2:37 AM Slavko via mailop wrote: > Hi, > > Dňa Tue, 4 Jan 2022 15:32:57 -0800 Brandon Long via mailop > napísal: > > > For anyone who cares about their dmarc reports, I'd highly recommend > > using a third party service for analyzing them, they will be better > > set up to

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Wed 05/Jan/2022 00:32:57 +0100 Brandon Long wrote: I didn't see anyone address the original problem here much, so here are some details about this. Thanks! There is the dmarc address that Google itself uses, dmarc-nore...@google.com , it sometimes has t

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Hi, Dňa Tue, 4 Jan 2022 15:32:57 -0800 Brandon Long via mailop napísal: > For anyone who cares about their dmarc reports, I'd highly recommend > using a third party service for analyzing them, they will be better > set up to handle the load. please, is this suggestion meant universally, or it i

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

I didn't see anyone address the original problem here much, so here are some details about this. There is the dmarc address that Google itself uses, dmarc-nore...@google.com, it sometimes has the same rejections. I haven't checked recently, but wouldn't surprise me. Indeed, the problem occurs at

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Tue, 2021-12-28 at 15:27 +0100, Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop wrote: > Am 28.12.21 um 14:31 schrieb yuv via mailop: > > > > The problem is behavioral, not technological. More technology is > > not the solution. > > I'm a software developer, not a lawyer. And as you certainly know, if > the on

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Tue 28/Dec/2021 12:11:15 +0100 Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop wrote: Am 28.12.21 um 11:08 schrieb Alessandro Vesely via mailop: Yeah, we inevitably fall back to IP address lists.  Perhaps not so much because it's easier to outline a perimeter using numbers than names, but because it's rathe

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

It appears that Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop said: >I'm working on a reputation based system which would use a p2p network to >transmit reputation opinions very quickly, >allowing each node's policy to decide who to trust and what actions to take. Web of Trust is another WKBI. I'd suggest loo

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Am 28.12.21 um 14:31 schrieb yuv via mailop: On Tue, 2021-12-28 at 12:11 +0100, Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop wrote: I'm working on a reputation based system which would use a p2p network to transmit reputation opinions very quickly, COMPLICATED. The problem is behavioral, not technological.

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Tue, 2021-12-28 at 12:11 +0100, Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop wrote: > Am 28.12.21 um 11:08 schrieb Alessandro Vesely via mailop: > > OTOH, if it were possible to ascribe each nastiness to its actual > > culprit UNNECESSARY AND > I'm working on a reputation based system which would use a p2p

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Am 28.12.21 um 11:08 schrieb Alessandro Vesely via mailop: Yeah, we inevitably fall back to IP address lists.  Perhaps not so much because it's easier to outline a perimeter using numbers than names, but because it's rather immediate to operate on the former.  A set of good names would sound

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Mon 27/Dec/2021 17:50:11 +0100 yuv wrote: The first thing to make internet email viable for the future is to establish a defensible perimeter and keep bad actors out. Easier said than done. The problem does not affect email only. It affects anything internet. Lacking a proper perimeter, my

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Mon, 2021-12-27 at 02:44 +0100, Ángel via mailop wrote: > On 2021-12-23 at 21:02 -0700, Dave Warren via mailop wrote: > > Even just verifying a phone number adds a real world cost to > > switching identities which makes blocking far more effective. > > There is certainly a cost for casual users

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Dnia 26.12.2021 o godz. 21:39:36 John Levine via mailop pisze: > > Last time I checked Gmail sends you an SMS with a code you need to provide to > register a new account. It seems to depend on the IP address you are using. I have quite recently registered a few new Gmail accounts from my home Int

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Sun, 26 Dec 2021 21:31:02 -0700, Dave Warren via mailop wrote: >Many/most centralized communication systems require phone number >verification/validation (SMS or voice, typically) to activate a new >account. Even when multiple accounts can be activated using a single >phone number they can

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On 26 Dec 2021 21:39:36 -0500, "John Levine" wrote: >Last time I checked Gmail sends you an SMS with a code you need to provide to >register a new account. Ah, that. Obtaining a phone is not difficult nor will the expense exceed zero in a number of cases (such as my wife's recent adventure with

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On 2021-12-26 18:44, Ángel via mailop wrote: On 2021-12-23 at 21:02 -0700, Dave Warren via mailop wrote: Even just verifying a phone number adds a real world cost to switching identities which makes blocking far more effective. There is certainly a cost for casual users wishing to switch ident

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On 2021-12-26 19:23, Michael Rathbun via mailop wrote: On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 02:44:35 +0100, Ángel via mailop wrote: I wonder however if that's still the case for "professional" spammers, as I expect they would be able to buy phone numbers more easily and cheap than common users. What is this

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

It appears that Michael Rathbun via mailop said: >On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 02:44:35 +0100, Ángel via mailop >wrote: > >>I wonder however if that's still the case for "professional" spammers, >>as I expect they would be able to buy phone numbers more easily and >>cheap than common users. > >What is thi

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Mon, 27 Dec 2021 02:44:35 +0100, Ángel via mailop wrote: >I wonder however if that's still the case for "professional" spammers, >as I expect they would be able to buy phone numbers more easily and >cheap than common users. What is this 'buy' of which you speak? Phone numbers are composed o

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On 2021-12-23 at 21:02 -0700, Dave Warren via mailop wrote: > Even just verifying a phone number adds a real world cost to > switching identities which makes blocking far more effective. There is certainly a cost for casual users wishing to switch identities. Both for wannabe trolls & spammers and

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On 2021-12-18 08:39, yuv via mailop wrote: On Sat, 2021-12-18 at 15:13 +0100, Alexey Shpakovsky via mailop wrote: On Sat, December 18, 2021 13:50, yuv via mailop wrote: What makes the difference between [the smoothly running messaging systems] and internet email? I believe answer is centraliz

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Sat, 2021-12-18 at 17:02 +, Andrew C Aitchison via mailop wrote: > On Sat, 18 Dec 2021, yuv via mailop wrote: > > > > When you're one company controlling both backend and all frontend > > > > This is the undesirable feature of centralization, I think we can > > all > > agree on that. But

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021, yuv via mailop wrote: When you're one company controlling both backend and all frontend This is the undesirable feature of centralization, I think we can all agree on that. But what are the desirable features of centralization, and can they be breaken out and applied to a

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Fri 17/Dec/2021 20:36:51 +0100 Jarland Donnell via mailop wrote: Honestly, this is the kind of reason why I refuse to send DMARC reports. However, note that there was no machine-readable part of that log that would have let a server know it was about DMARC reports. It was blocked, presuma

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Sat 18/Dec/2021 16:39:18 +0100 yuv wrote: On Sat, 2021-12-18 at 15:13 +0100, Alexey Shpakovsky via mailop wrote: Email openness is both blessing (when any person can implement an email client however they like) and a curse (when any spammer can implement an email client...). Because the pr

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Sat, 2021-12-18 at 15:13 +0100, Alexey Shpakovsky via mailop wrote: > On Sat, December 18, 2021 13:50, yuv via mailop wrote: > > What makes the difference between [the smoothly running messaging > > systems] and internet email? > > I believe answer is centralization and to some extent lack of >

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Dnia 18.12.2021 o godz. 07:50:19 yuv via mailop pisze: > > Meanwhile, I hear that iMessage, Whatsapp, Messenger, etc. do not suffer > these problem and are a good replacement for internet email. What makes > the difference between them and internet email? You surely know what the difference is.

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Sat, December 18, 2021 13:50, yuv via mailop wrote: > > there are inconsistencies between the RFC specifying email and > the RFC specifying DMARC <...> > and the different implementations and variations. > > Meanwhile, I hear that iMessage, Whatsapp, Messenger, etc. do not suffer > these problem

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

On Sat, 2021-12-18 at 12:47 +0100, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: > Dnia 17.12.2021 o godz. 13:36:51 Jarland Donnell via mailop pisze: > > DMARC has become mainstream enough that far more people > > have a DMARC record than actually know what it's for. > > I would blame the "big guys" (especially

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Dnia 17.12.2021 o godz. 13:36:51 Jarland Donnell via mailop pisze: > DMARC has become mainstream enough that far more people > have a DMARC record than actually know what it's for. I would blame the "big guys" (especially Google) for it, as they explicitly require the senders sending mail to them

Re: [mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Honestly, this is the kind of reason why I refuse to send DMARC reports. DMARC has become mainstream enough that far more people have a DMARC record than actually know what it's for. The number of my own customers who I see rejecting DMARC reports from Google is astounding, and further solidifi

[mailop] What a drag it is sending DMARC reports

Hi all, it seems lots of report generators trigger just around midnight. The following log shows CET time, UTC+0100. I only tried to send 2 messages, which resulted in 8 attempts, 2 bounces in less than one hour. Dec 17 02:42:50 zaggregate[7788]: external rcpt dm...@mailinblue.com authoriz