have seen a couple of versions of this in the last few days,... hard to
know how much truth there is in any of these, but it does raise some
interesting thoughts.
cheers!
e
On 10/Jul/13 08:28, Rich Thomas wrote:
An old friend sent this around, it might be internet BS but he does
know a lot
An old friend sent this around, it might be internet BS but he does know
a lot of people who know a lot of people with military/intel/aviation
backgrounds, so I tend to think it is probably closer to true than not.
But YMMV.
--R
For how many years did we hear some of this in CRM? From a
'Zackly.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Rich Thomas"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Read that thing I posted about the flight instructor&#x
Read that thing I posted about the flight instructor's experience in
Korea, and the more general statement that thousands of hours of
"flight" time might be a small fraction of actual "flying" time. Not
that sitting with your hand on the stick for 12 hours across the ocean
would be a great bit
-
From: "Randy Bennell"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Boy you guys are critcal.
They flew this great big plane all the way accross the bloody Pacific and
List"
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes:
If it going to be all automated, then eliminate the people and thereby
pilot error. If these guys (or gals ) are sit
bject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Mitch Haley writes:
You're saying that 7 seconds may be a long time in a F-16, but it isn't
even
enough time to increase thrust in a 777? (I was going to say 172, then
realized
that there doesn't seem to
Exactly.
Landing a large aircraft is really a math exercise. Horizontal velocity vs
vertical velocity versus lift generated/thrust applied. Add cross wind
component and density altitude [how thick is the air to produce lift].
With the 777 approach speed of approx 175 mph and a sink rate of, let's
Mitch Haley writes:
> You're saying that 7 seconds may be a long time in a F-16, but it isn't even
> enough time to increase thrust in a 777? (I was going to say 172, then
> realized
> that there doesn't seem to be such a thing as light aircraft in ROK)
I think I read that the FAA standard is
G Mann wrote:
At this time, it certainly appears the crew was far behind the aircraft and
failed first to recognize it was out of control, then second, to take
corrective and effective action in a timely manner to regain control.. to
little, way to late.
You're saying that 7 seconds may be a l
Objection, Your Honor.
Thousands of hours in other types does not make you competent in a new
airframe.
Each Type require a different set of skills. That is why you are required
to possess a "type certificate" to fly each different large aircraft.
Certainly, if you have some flight experience, it
At 6:42 PM -0500 7/11/13, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
Asians can't drive so why think they can fly?
Nonsense!
FWIW, ILS is becoming obsolete (not yet, but soon) due to WAAS GPS systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System
Overall, commercail aviation is remarkably safe and effective. However, if
I don't HAVE to be somewhere at a specifc time/date, I perfer to fly
myself, just as I
- From: "Allan Streib"
> To: "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com>; "Mercedes Discussion List"
>
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
>
>
>> Dieselhead <
013 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes:
If it going to be all automated, then eliminate the people and thereby
pilot error. If these guys (or gals ) are sitting in the seat, they
need to be mo
Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes:
> If it going to be all automated, then eliminate the people and thereby
> pilot error. If these guys (or gals ) are sitting in the seat, they
> need to be monitoring the critical parameters (altitude, attitude and
> airspeed) whether on manual or auto.
E
Andrew Strasfogel writes:
> BTW, what struck me about the "inexperienced" pilot was that he may never
> have actually landed such an aircraft before in his 43 hours of ttraining
> (or simulating). If true, this would be astounding.
Gotta be a first time, no?
He had thousands of hours in other
Dieselhead wrote:
WILTON wrote:
>> Sounds like flying has become TOO boring - maybe
>> they really can just put a monkey in the seat...
> If it going to be all automated, then eliminate the people and thereby pilot
> error. If these guys (or gals ) are sitting in the seat, they need to be
> moni
Automatic this, or auto that - there's NO excuse for not monitoring
a system to ensure it's doing what you asked it to do. To set it
and forget it to have its own way good or bad is criminal in my
opinion. Three highly-experienced, well-paid men just sitting there
doing nothing??!!! Couldn't
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Ah, but I've done a bit of reading, and it's quite possible that the
auto-throttle was not only disconnected by the flight mode required to
get down to the proper glide path,
o the pacific
northwest...
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 18:22:18 -0700
From: Alex Chamberlain
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide
path?
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Curt Ra
> WILTON wrote:
>
> Today's news conf:
>
> Yep; nobody monitoring airspeed and altitude before it was to
> late. Descent rate and throttles evidently set to AUTO, then
> airspeed and altitude evidently ignored.
When descent rate and throttles (misnomer for turbines, but
whatever) were set to "au
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:
> Well theres your problem, Southwest doesn't have first class at all...
> Famously doesn't as a matter of fact.
>
>
Nor, famously, maintenance crews that can read the English repair
instructions for their planes. I won't fly SWA, ever, mostly
ATTABOY!
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Dan Penoff"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?,
or Departure Gate Asshats
Time: Good Friday morning
The service wasn't as good, but it was nice to be able to sleep lying down!
D
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 8, 2013, at 11:28 PM, Craig wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:53:57 -0400 Dan Penoff wrote:
>
>> I got to literally sleep in a bed with inflight entertainment and
>> plenty of food/drink all
Time: Good Friday morning
Location: NWA gate counter, Boston's Logan Airport
Weather: Clear, unlimited ceiling
Destination: MKE via DTW
Weather in DTW: Fog and low clouds
This is scenario - inbound equipment has been stuck on the ground at DTW trying
to take off to reach BOS. Delays are reac
Well theres your problem, Southwest doesn't have first class at all... Famously
doesn't as a matter of fact.
-Curt
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 11:02:04 -0400
From: Mitch Haley
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide
path?
They are the only people who can help you. Most people do not
understand that.
--R
On 7/9/13 6:15 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
I suspect this is because I NEVER demand anything from gate agents
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.
Ah, but I've done a bit of reading, and it's quite possible that the
auto-throttle was not only disconnected by the flight mode required to
get down to the proper glide path, but the auto-throttle WARNING is
also deactivated (look up "the FLCH trap" on 777s). Result: no
autothrottle, no wa
Today's news conf:
Yep; nobody monitoring airspeed and altitude before it was to late.
Descent rate and throttles evidently set to AUTO, then airspeed and altitude
evidently ignored.
Wilton
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://w
Treating people well always pays off. One a trip a couple years ago
with my mother, who requires a wheelchair in airports, we went through
Atlanta twice in a few days, and believe it or not the gate agent
remembered us and the fact we were going to a wedding, asked how it
went, etc. I sus
n
- Original Message -
From: "Dan Penoff"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Flying or otherwise, you'll always get better service and attention if
At 10:33 AM -0400 7/9/13, Rich Thomas wrote:
One hopes. The wire bundles look sorta like what your car has, no
idea what kind of connectors are used.
Mostly insulated and waterproof types.
But still, the idea of water dripping around inside an airplane's
electrical guts gives one pause.
Touche,
BTW, what struck me about the "inexperienced" pilot was that he may never
have actually landed such an aircraft before in his 43 hours of ttraining
(or simulating). If true, this would be astounding.
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> Flying or otherwise, you'll alwa
Flying or otherwise, you'll always get better service and attention if you're
well dressed.
I was commuting to SFO from Tampa weekly or bi-weekly for over 6 months. I
always flew the same route on United. I made it a point to learn the names of
the cabin and gate crews, and even brought them go
Rich Thomas wrote:
BA would regularly put me in first class no matter what my attire.
OK, I was extrapolating one person's SWA experience and maybe it was specific to
his personal situation. His daughter had him on her employee family plan so he
had liberal standby privileges, or for a small
One hopes. The wire bundles look sorta like what your car has, no idea
what kind of connectors are used.
But still, the idea of water dripping around inside an airplane's
electrical guts gives one pause.
--R
On 7/9/13 10:17 AM, Michael Canfield wrote:
Knowing very little about airplane co
Knowing very little about airplane construction I would think that all
electrical connections and components would be well insulated and water
tight. Is this true?
Mike
On Jul 9, 2013 9:12 AM, "M. Mitchell Marmel" wrote:
> At 7:00 PM -0400 7/8/13, Rich Thomas wrote:
>
> leaking considerably, d
BA would regularly put me in first class no matter what my attire.
--R
On 7/9/13 7:02 AM, Mitch Haley wrote:
(most airlines don't like sticking commoners in first class unless
they are properly attired)
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts
At 7:00 PM -0400 7/8/13, Rich Thomas wrote:
leaking considerably, dripping down through the lights and such
above my seat, right onto my head and neck. I pointed out to the FA
that this might be an issue, electrics and all that in there and in
the ceiling/floor above, through which I am sure
Sounds like someone forgot the 7 Ps...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Ps_%28military_adage%29
In this case, "Proper piloting prevents piss poor pullout and pileup."
-MMM-
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search lis
The cabin crew told me that they would have put me in First Class but it was
full. I was probably wearing jeans, as I always traveled in comfortable
clothing whenever possible.
I got to chat with the second officer when he came back to get something out of
his bags, and got to visit the flight
Craig wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:53:57 -0400 Dan Penoff wrote:
I got to literally sleep in a bed with inflight entertainment and
plenty of food/drink all the way over. It was a wonderful flight. A
little cramped, but still better than the business class seats.
Sounds like it was even be
On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:53:57 -0400 Dan Penoff wrote:
> I got to literally sleep in a bed with inflight entertainment and
> plenty of food/drink all the way over. It was a wonderful flight. A
> little cramped, but still better than the business class seats.
Sounds like it was even better than f
On Mon, 8 Jul 2013 20:48:21 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin"
wrote:
> > Allan Streib writes:
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/08/us/asiana-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
>
> Wow
That is really amazing, isn't it?
There is a "sidebar" box for a video of an animation of the crash on the
left side
a minute. Let me
> get my bag."
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff"
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 4:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path
Most people are generally stupid.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 8, 2013, at 3:10 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
> What really gassed me when I saw the first photos of the surviving passengers
> walking away from the wreckage was that many of them were pulling their carry
> on luggage behind them! I would
Wow
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 8, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Allan Streib wrote:
> Allan Streib writes:
>
>> Rick Knoble writes:
>>
>>> On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:52 PM, "Allan Streib" wrote:
>>>
I would add that from the video I've seen, where the aircraft strikes
the ground and then d
nd
>> altitude? How much experience does it take to read airspeed and altitude?
>> Not much.
>>
>> Wilton
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch Haley"
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 10:43 AM
cs - everybody dozing at the same time
> - and on approach to landing under CAVU conditions?!
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff"
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 10:09 AM
> Subject:
gt;> SFO? Gotta be 15-18 hours...
>>
>> -Curt
>>
>> Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2013 09:51:21 -0400
>> From: Dan Penoff
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide
>>path?
>> Message-I
08 Jul 2013 09:51:21 -0400
> From: Dan Penoff
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide
> path?
> Message-ID: <8e7461e2-c5f6-4730-b697-a0b47442d...@penoff.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
&
Dieselhead wrote:
> One of the drawbacks of computerized control is that people become used to
> it and forget the underlying functions, then don't comprehend when the
> automated system is not functioning correctly.
For sure!!
mao
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
F
--R wrote:
> Yeah, airspeed and altitude, that's the ticket. You run out of either one
> and you are in a world of hurt.
The Buffalo syndrome.
mao
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okie
My son is interested in these things - he drives a lear35.
flyingprofessors.net/what-happened-to-asiana-airlines-flight-214-2/
See if you can wade thru that. Seems to be somewhat thorough.
may
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okieb
On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:52 PM, "Allan Streib" wrote:
I would add that from the video I've seen, where the aircraft strikes
the ground and then does a near 360 spin up into the air and then slams
down again, it's a remarkable testament to the build quality of the 777
that it remained mostly in one
They took care of me on the flight over and back too. I pretty much
anesthetized myself for most of the 11 or 14 hours or whatever it was,
both ways. I flew back to Houston from Tokyo, I might have stopped en
route somewhere to change planes, I forget.
Oh, I remember now too -- I was on a 74
NWA was my airline of choice for many years, much because they did a better job
taking care of their business passengers. In 8 years of almost weekly travel,
I only had my bags lost/delayed once, and that wasn't the airlines fault (I got
crosswise with an asshat Customs officer entering Canada
I've heard several comments on the luggage, and the one that really
caught my attention is that it's possible the cabin crew asked them to
haul it out. Reports are that the overhead compartments had come open
and dumped it all out anyway, and the best way to get it out of the
way is for pe
nal Message -
From: "Rich Thomas"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
That happened to me when I went to Japan. Our plane in Boston got taken
out of service, they
Somehow they were 34 knots under correct speed, applied power and did
not re-gain speed, and had the stick shaker go off. As I said,
something strange is going on here, I just don't believe everyone in
the cockpit was napping on final approach, the pilot has put big
planes on the ground ma
Korean airline, not subject to FAA rules in terms of pilot training,
etc except where they agree to it.
Something was seriously wrong, the pilot flying the plane has landed
747's at SFO multiple times and there isn't THAT much difference
between airframes on landing technique -- stay at the
Lotta mighty lucky people.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Randy Bennell"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
On 08/07/2013 10:04 AM, WILTON wro
Yeah, if you're standing/waiting and the bag is right there, OK.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Mitch Haley"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Rich Thomas wrote:
The bags get there at like 9PM,
everything is totally soaked, suits, shirts, underwear, socks,
everything. ohsht.
Note to self: line luggage with garbage bags.
Mitch.
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okieben
snipA San Francisco airport spokesman said a component of the airport's
instrument landing system that tracks an incoming aeroplane's glide path has
been out of service in recent weeks and was not operational on Saturday.
Pilots and air safety experts said the glide path technology was far fro
That happened to me when I went to Japan. Our plane in Boston got taken
out of service, they put us on a little puddle jumper to JFK to catch a
flight, I could see my bags sitting on a cart on the ramp, it was
starting to snow/rain. I told various airline people and the PJ pilot
that my bags
Not a slur. Not at all. But it is sometimes used to describe
frugal. It is just a word used to describe the origin of a group of
people. Portugee is not a slur either. It just describes the origin
of that group of Hawaiian people.
No, they are not. I thought that word was an ethnic slur
Trust me, the airlines are providing everything they possibly need at this
point, I am sure
On Jul 8, 2013, at 4:42 PM, Mitch Haley wrote:
> WILTON wrote:
>> I noticed that, too. I can hear it now, "Uh, uh, wait just a minute. Let
>> me get my bag."
>
> Depends on whether you were stuck
No, they are not. I thought that word was an ethnic slur aimed at the Chinese
that was commonly used in Hawaii?
And for the record, I consider myself frugal, but when my life is in immediate
danger, possessions are going to be the last thing I worry about...
Dan
Dan
On Jul 8, 2013, at 4:38 P
On 08/07/2013 10:04 AM, WILTON wrote:
Just saying they didn't HAFTA have it for seemingly such a simple
approach with runway in sight from many miles out. 'Understood they
were cleared for visual approach. Were they depending on ILS or some
other system, anyway, and allowing aircraft to take c
What really gassed me when I saw the first photos of the surviving passengers
walking away from the wreckage was that many of them were pulling their carry
on luggage behind them! I would have been walking over people to get out of
that thing, baggage be damned!
Dan
On Jul 8, 2013, at 3:00 PM,
WILTON wrote:
I noticed that, too. I can hear it now, "Uh, uh, wait just a minute.
Let me get my bag."
Depends on whether you were stuck standing there longer than it took to retrieve
the bag. And it wouldn't be fun to land on another continent 20,000 miles from
home with zero luggage.
Mi
What really gassed me when I saw the first photos of the surviving
passengers walking away from the wreckage was that many of them were
pulling their carry on luggage behind them! I would have been
walking over people to get out of that thing, baggage be damned!
Dan
Dan, who is obviously not
On Jul 8, 2013, at 1:41 PM, "Allan Streib" wrote:
>>
>> It's on CNN's website.
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/08/us/asiana-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Thank you.
Wow. And pretty much everybody walked away. Quite a testament to Boeing in
general, and the 777 in particular.
Rick
Sen
I noticed that, too. I can hear it now, "Uh, uh, wait just a minute. Let
me get my bag."
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Dan Penoff"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Po
y "pranging" it.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Mitch Haley"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Rich Thomas wrote:
They were under a VFR approach
Rich Thomas wrote:
They were under a VFR approach, or at least the day was clear, so anyone
looking out the window (and glancing at the airspeed indicator) would
have seen they were slow, and not aimed at the runway. Even if they
were on an instrument approach the system should have known bett
On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 9:47 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
'Seems to me that somebody was not monitoring 2 of the most basic parts of
flying - airspeed and altitude.
Wilton
__
Allan Streib writes:
> Rick Knoble writes:
>
>> On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:52 PM, "Allan Streib" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I would add that from the video I've seen, where the aircraft strikes
>>> the ground and then does a near 360 spin up into the air and then slams
>>> down again, it's a remarkable test
Rick Knoble writes:
> On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:52 PM, "Allan Streib" wrote:
>
>>
>> I would add that from the video I've seen, where the aircraft strikes
>> the ground and then does a near 360 spin up into the air and then slams
>> down again, it's a remarkable testament to the build quality of th
-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 9:47 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
'Seems to me that somebody was not monitoring 2 of the most basic parts of
fl
On Jul 8, 2013, at 12:52 PM, "Allan Streib" wrote:
>
> I would add that from the video I've seen, where the aircraft strikes
> the ground and then does a near 360 spin up into the air and then slams
> down again, it's a remarkable testament to the build quality of the 777
> that it remained most
On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 13:52:33 -0400 Allan Streib
wrote:
> I would add that from the video I've seen, where the aircraft strikes
> the ground and then does a near 360 spin up into the air and then slams
> down again, it's a remarkable testament to the build quality of the 777
> that it remained mos
Dan Penoff writes:
> I heard on NPR this morning that the pilot flying left seat only had
> something like 7 hours in this airframe.
I think it was a bit more than that, but he also had thousands of hours
in other large jets. He was by all accounts I've seen a very seasoned
pilot.
--
Allan S
On Mon, 08 Jul 2013 11:14:37 -0400 Rich Thomas
wrote:
> Yeah, airspeed and altitude, that's the ticket. You run out of either
> one and you are in a world of hurt
>
> I have never flown a 777, but I am sure it is not wildly different from
> those Cherokees I used to fly, especially when i
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2013 09:51:21 -0400
> From: Dan Penoff
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide
> path?
> Message-ID: <8e7461e2-c5f6-4730-b697-a0b47442d...@penoff.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-a
Rich Thomas writes:
> I have never flown a 777, but I am sure it is not wildly different from
> those Cherokees I used to fly, especially when it comes to figuring out
> where and how you want to plant it on the ground, and keeping your stick
> and throttle sorta in sync to get you where you w
'Bout 12 hrs from Seoul to SFO depending on winds, of course.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Curt Raymond"
To: "Diesel List"
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
I thought it wa
43 hours:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/08/boeing-777-crashes-at-san-francisco-international-airport/
- Forwarded Message -
From: Curt Raymond
To: Diesel List
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
I
I thought it was more like 37 hours. How long is the flight from Korea to SFO?
Gotta be 15-18 hours...
-Curt
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2013 09:51:21 -0400
From: Dan Penoff
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide
path?
Message-ID
On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:
The last time something like this happened it was fuel waxing up resulting
in power loss on final approach, which I'm sure will be examined.
How can something like that possibly happen these days? Hasn't the
tendency of diesel fuel an
I think this just gives me one more reason to drive one of my "antique"
cars/trucks and see the sights along the way.
Mike
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsu
f 'em have monitored airspeed and
altitude? How much experience does it take to read airspeed and
altitude? Not much.
Wilton
- Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause
: "Mitch Haley"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Yeah, how many WEEKS is is OK to leave something like that unfixed at
an oceanfront international airport with SFO&
Yep.
Wilton
- Original Message -
From: "Mitch Haley"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
Dan Penoff wrote:
I heard on NPR this morning that the pilot f
Yeah, how many WEEKS is is OK to leave something like that unfixed at
an oceanfront international airport with SFO's traffic volume?
Mitch.
What do you expect form a goobermnt that can't do anything it is
supposed to (and required to) do (at great expense), but does all
kinds of nefarious
I heard on NPR this morning that the pilot flying left seat only had
something like 7 hours in this airframe.
Gotta start sometime. Obviously something was wrong.
Or, as is more usual, _several_ somethings were wrong.
-- Jim
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
Fo
Dan Penoff wrote:
I heard on NPR this morning that the pilot flying left seat only had something
like 7 hours in this airframe.
He got more than that on the day of the crash, didn't he?
At any rate, isn't it pretty simple?
You deploy your flaps and wheels, establish your glide attitude, and i
AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cause of Frisco crash: Poor piloting plus no glide path?
>Michael Canfield wrote:
Sounds like someone is in a world of trouble.
Yeah, how many WEEKS is is OK to leave something like that unfixed at an
oceanfront international airport with SFO's traffic volum
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