Curley McLain wrote:
> ... I'd like to see no
> subsidies for anything, not for energy, "healthcare" solar panels,
> Lektrick cars, or anything else. We'd all be a whole lot better off.
That sounds very nice - really. But that ain't gonna happen.
Not even OkieBenz has 5% agreement to this.
Are they taxed based on the estimated product in the ground or only at the
time of extraction?
If its the latter then I don't see why this allowance exists.
-Curt
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019, 9:24:28 PM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes
wrote:
> On January 2, 2019 at 9:04 PM Curley
Hey, I like this government. You got a better one?
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 9:24 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > On January 2, 2019 at 9:04 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Well, the oil depletion allowance is one subsidy
> On January 2, 2019 at 9:04 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
>
> Well, the oil depletion allowance is one subsidy that should go away.
>
> Others:
> https://www.heritage.org/environment/report/whats-oil-subsidy
That's like saying "depreciation of fixed assets is one subsidy that
I want a food depletion subsidy.
-Curt
On Wednesday, January 2, 2019, 9:03:07 PM EST, Curley McLain via Mercedes
wrote:
Well, the oil depletion allowance is one subsidy that should go away.
Others:
https://www.heritage.org/environment/report/whats-oil-subsidy
Mitch Haley via
Only when the citizens allow the goobers to wander away from the
enumerated powers.
Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote on 1/1/19 11:53 PM:
But that is the nature of democracy and in particular our federation of
states.
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
To
Well, the oil depletion allowance is one subsidy that should go away.
Others:
https://www.heritage.org/environment/report/whats-oil-subsidy
Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote on 1/1/19 8:13 PM:
People talk about oil subsidies all the time but never mention any specific
subsidy, do they really
Still there, been there for over a century, and will be for future
centuries, but woger et all always argues that biofuels should not have
subsidies, but petroleum should have subsidies. I'd like to see no
subsidies for anything, not for energy, "healthcare" solar panels,
Lektrick cars, or
I'd like to point out that there is a huge difference between taking
money to accomplish defined powers of the goobermnt such as defending
the borders and taking money at gunpoint to put solar collectors on your
house.
Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote on 1/1/19 4:07 PM:
And I am sure
Did you get a tax credit for any of the 55 panels?
Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote on 1/1/19 3:25 PM:
Am I the only one who thinks this conversation has gone way off topic? I
will end this by saying that put my money where my mouth is. My roof is
covered with 55 solar panels.
no matter how much coal we burn in the USA, the air here will never be
as dirty as theirs. It is related to population density, and even the
hole known as NYC is sparsely populated compared to cities in China.
Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote on 1/1/19 1:12 PM:
So the solution to evil
That's what I was talking about, and seemingly a gift to extractors unless the
lands in question are farther from roads and harder to access than the typical
private oil and gas lease sites.
Percentage depletion, almost always 15% of revenue, is just a way of
simplifying depletion (think
Federal oil and gas leases carry a 12.5% royalty plus a modest per acre
rental charge, which is below market
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/reports/2015/06/19/115580/federal-oil-and-gas-royalty-and-revenue-reform/
"Currently, the federal government charges a royalty of only 12.5
8.5acres for me. Occasionally I throw some stored solar energy in the fireplace
to release some stored temporally-displaced warmth
--R
Sent from iPhone
> On Jan 2, 2019, at 10:01 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> I have 20 acres of solar power storage.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
>
On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 07:01:20 -0800 Jim Cathey via Mercedes
wrote:
> I have 20 acres of solar power storage.
In trees which can be burned ...
Craig
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or
I have 20 acres of solar power storage.
-- Jim
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
On Tue, 1 Jan 2019 20:31:09 -0600
OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
> For one, there's the subsidy for adding ethanol to gasoline.
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/05/13/addressing-misconceptions-from-senator-grassleys-ethanol-editorial/#7563b48e15ee
>
>
Its hard to believe the total national oil and gas subsidy since 1915 is
only 470 billion when the one year cost for Oklahoma for oil and gas
subsidies is 450 million. I suspect similar tax advantages exist in many
other oil producing states.
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019, 7:32 PM OK Don via Mercedes For
I think the most significant would be the depletion allowance, which allows
writing off up to 27.5% of gross revenues since 1926. Oh, and all the
lease- and royalty- free drilling on federal land offshore that's been
going on. There have been various efforts to eliminate the former subsidy
for
> On January 1, 2019 at 9:31 PM OK Don via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
>
> For one, there's the subsidy for adding ethanol to gasoline.
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/05/13/addressing-misconceptions-from-senator-grassleys-ethanol-editorial/#7563b48e15ee
That's the original Alternative
For one, there's the subsidy for adding ethanol to gasoline.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/05/13/addressing-misconceptions-from-senator-grassleys-ethanol-editorial/#7563b48e15ee
https://www.marketslant.com/article/worst-energy-ever-ethanol-subsidy-10-billion-tax-eia
Then:
Hmm, you're right.
A little research yields a couple highly biased articles from both sides. Both
sorts of articles are the kind that make me feel "I wish I hadn't asked".
That said I do have one favorite, the "consumption subsidies" which are things
like heating assistance or subsidies for
People talk about oil subsidies all the time but never mention any specific
subsidy, do they really exist?
Excise taxes on fuel, well I know those exist.
Below market pricing on mineral leases on public land have been mentioned,
especially gold and uranium, but I have no way of evaluating how
China also has some of the worst air pollution in the world...
-Curt
On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 5:19:01 PM EST, Meade Dillon via Mercedes
wrote:
Part of the issue is that China, free of the environmental regulation, can
produce electricity at a lower cost than we can. Cheaper power
...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2019 1:26 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT interesting alternative energy talk
Am I the only one who thinks this conversation has gone way off topic? I
will end this by saying
> On January 1, 2019 at 6:11 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
>
> Yes they can't have a bunch of residential panels backfeeding into the
> downed lines I suppose! But who monitors that they get shut down?
I'm pretty sure every grid-tie inverter ever sold in USA stops backfeeding
It’s a function of their metering here. When the meter “sees” that the utility
has dropped, it kills everything.
And it’s a code requirement in Florida.
-D
> On Jan 1, 2019, at 6:11 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
> Yes they can't have a bunch of residential panels backfeeding
Yes they can't have a bunch of residential panels backfeeding into the
downed lines I suppose! But who monitors that they get shut down?
I think there is going to be a lot of bootleg solar going on. I saw one
setup that never allows the meter to run backwards, so it avoids a lot of
the
With Sunny Boy inverters, you get a single 120v outlet for 1500-2000W of
emergency power for refrigerators and lights.
It's my understanding that Rapid Shutdown rules merely require you to provide
emergency workers with a well marked button to push and drop the solar panel
wiring to safe
I would do it in a heartbeat down here where it would make a lot of sense but
the utilities continue to hamstring consumers every way possible to prevent us
from installing net metering systems. And I would also put in a battery bank
as well, as without it you’re not allowed to run independent
> On January 1, 2019 at 4:25 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
>
> Am I the only one who thinks this conversation has gone way off topic? I
> will end this by saying that put my money where my mouth is. My roof is
> covered with 55 solar panels.
How big are they?
I was thinking
> Andrew wrote:
[regarding coal fired generating plants vs wind/solar]
> Let the market dictate and set the politics aside.
I agree completely. Which means _ALL_ government subsidies and
tax breaks _MUST_ end. And regulation must be comparable.
That would change the current state of the
Just to be clear, there is manufacturing carbon costs in producing those
solar cells as well. TANSTAAFL.
Not saying they aren't a great way to produce power, just that they are not
free of other impacts.
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 3:51 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
Part of the issue is that China, free of the environmental regulation, can
produce electricity at a lower cost than we can. Cheaper power leads to a
lower cost basis for everything produced with that power (steel, aluminum,
iPhones, lithium batteries, solar panels) so they are trading off the
And I am sure that all you folks take no deductions when you pay your
federal income taxes.
On Jan 1, 2019 4:51 PM, "Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes"
wrote:
> Well sorry I guess it was always going to be a hot button type subject.
>
> Anyway yes there is no energy source devoid of environmental
Well sorry I guess it was always going to be a hot button type subject.
Anyway yes there is no energy source devoid of environmental impact.
Lithium ion for instance has a big carbon footprint. Maybe 25% co2 savings
over diesel for the life of the car, including manufacturing. Because the
, January 01, 2019 1:26 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT interesting alternative energy talk
Am I the only one who thinks this conversation has gone way off topic? I
will end this by saying that put my money where my mouth is. My roof is
covered with 55 solar
Am I the only one who thinks this conversation has gone way off topic? I
will end this by saying that put my money where my mouth is. My roof is
covered with 55 solar panels.
On Jan 1, 2019 3:36 PM, "G Mann via Mercedes" wrote:
> The solution is to only drive your electric car when there is
The solution is to only drive your electric car when there is enough sun
and wind to charge it's batteries, not have electric heat or lights in your
home, no computers at work, or office lights. But have zero pollution
from energy production.
Alternatively, accept that humans are a messy
>So the solution to evil China ias is for the >USA to burn MORE coal so our
>air can be as dirty as theirs?
No. Had you read any of the articles that I posted, you would realize that the
Chinese are building highly efficient coal burning plants, for the most part.
They are also building coal
So the solution to evil China ias is for the USA to burn MORE coal so our
air can be as dirty as theirs?
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 9:14 AM Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> China was actually bringing 2 CFPPs online per week for awhile a coupla
> years ago, burning
China was actually bringing 2 CFPPs online per week for awhile a coupla years
ago, burning dirty coal with no emissions controls. Country is power hungry (in
more ways than electricity) as it makes the Great Leap Forward.
--R
Sent from iPhone
> On Jan 1, 2019, at 12:23 AM, Andrew Strasfogel
Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote on 12/31/18 8:57 PM:
Well I have a geology degree but that is equally irrelevant. TRUE
Let the market dictate and set the politics aside. Why would for-profit
utilitiesclose down their coal plants if they could make money by keeping
them open?
SUBSIDIES
For those who don't know: You should listen to Craig. Here's why:
Craig
P.S. In case you missed it, I have a Ph.D. in physics, something very
relevant to this discussion.
Craig via Mercedes wrote on 12/31/18 2:30 PM:
To date, the electricity from alternate sources has been much more
Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote on 12/31/18 1:33 PM:
We have a 450 acre solar farm going in across the road from my house next year.
All the neighbors are in an uproar, but I see it as certain power any time the
sun is shining, the substation to handle it is about 300 yards from the
Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote on 12/31/18 12:31 PM:
No synopsis that I know of. Sorry.
I am interested because the wind farm guys developed a project all around
us, but even then it was clear that solar would outperform it. Basically
this guy says the same thing. Essentially, the stuff is
Some New Year's reading for you Andrew.
https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/10761-China-is-building-coal-power-again/en
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/coal/coal-dead-china/
has turned the corner and is cutting back on coal. I'd be shocked if they
are literally building one Coal Fired power plant a week. Makes no sense.
They're heavily into solar. Maybe you're confusing China with India.
On Dec 31, 2018 11:54 PM, "G Mann via Mercedes"
wrote:
> Answer to Andrew's
Answer to Andrew's well asked question:
Over the past 25+ years, coal power plant regulation, via EPA and State Air
Quality regulations has become increasingly draconian, To such an extent
that a new coal fired generation facility could not be approved, and
modification of existing coal fired
Well I have a geology degree but that is equally irrelevant.
Let the market dictate and set the politics aside. Why would for-profit
utilitiesclose down their coal plants if they could make money by keeping
them open? Why are all new power plants wind and solar where the resource
is plentiful,
On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 10:31:54 -0800 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
wrote:
> Seems like people on the list have been chiming in about windmills and
> the need for ongoing coal plants etc. from time to time, so I though it
> might interest the group to hear from someone with skin in the game,
> e.g. a
We have a 300 acre solar “farm” going in to an adjacent county that is largely
agricultural and rural. A number of homeowners around the site had a blowout
because they said it would “change the character” of the area.
I’m not sure how going from grassy meadows with cattle grazing to a large
> On December 31, 2018 at 2:33 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes
> wrote:
>
>
> We have a 450 acre solar farm going in across the road from my house next
> year. All the neighbors are in an uproar,
We demand clean power! ...
We demand you take your clean power somewhere else!
We have a 450 acre solar farm going in across the road from my house next year.
All the neighbors are in an uproar, but I see it as certain power any time the
sun is shining, the substation to handle it is about 300 yards from the
house
Between wind, solar, and natural gas fired turbine
The utilities are very conservative yet they are the ones cancelling and
closing coal fired generation b/c gas and wind/solar are cheaper now.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:32 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> No synopsis that I know of. Sorry.
>
> I am interested
No synopsis that I know of. Sorry.
I am interested because the wind farm guys developed a project all around
us, but even then it was clear that solar would outperform it. Basically
this guy says the same thing. Essentially, the stuff is getting cheap
enough that it is here to stay.
Seems like
Dan's favorite utility, Florida Power & Light?
That's a long video, is there a synopsis?
-
Max
Charleston SC
On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 11:22 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> Industry insider view
>
> https://youtu.be/2SXxJWUv-x4
>
>
>
Industry insider view
https://youtu.be/2SXxJWUv-x4
On Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 9:04 PM Andrew Strasfogel Z is one of the best political thrillers ever made.
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 10:43 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> There is a foreign flick called Z where
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