> I don't think that this proposed ordinance is as
> dumb as Jason claims.
What I think is dumb would be banning leaf blowers
rather than banning excessive generation of noise
pollution or air pollution. I did neglect to consider
particulates in my original post.
> If I understand his argument co
I recently played a "stupid laws" game - the basic
premise was that you guess which of the four options
is an actual law. I ended up being quite good at it,
presumably because of my regular reading of political
lists and having a better idea of the thought process
that goes into laws.
Many of the
As it isn't related to Minneapolis, I'm continuing
this conversation on the sidelines. I'll save an
email log (if there ends up being one) for anyone
interested.
- Jason Goray: Sheridan, NE, Minneapolis, Hennepin
County, Minnesota, United States of America, North
America, Earth, etc.
>> Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is mostly
>> likely the correct one.
>
> Not! Occam's Razor suggests that an equally
> accurate, but simpler explanation is preferable to a
> more verbose one.
Occam's Razor infers both statements:
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html
- Jason Goray
> I'm with Jason on this one. Iam more than aware of
> the power of language. But I never understood the
> "of color" adjetive. This politically correct
> speech forces people to torture the language.
Just to be clear, I don't have a side on this
question. I don't personally see a need for either
> A Star Tribune reporter was disciplined Thursday
> after he disclosed that he wrote an e-mail to a
> Minneapolis police official that contained
> racially insensitive language.
>
> David Chanen, a police reporter, told editors that
> he used the term "colored officers" in an e-mail
> sent Wednes
> Well David, I showed up and tried to pay my
respects.
> But you didn't warn us that the event would be
> televised!
>
> Now when you're a gay federal employee in the reign
> of the religious "right", who understands the
> meaning of the legal term "federal preemption", you
> know better than to
> I have not gone to see many touring music concerts
> at Target and other venues when I noticed they were
> connected to Clear Channel completely deflating my
> desire to send any dollars their way.
I agree with this sentiment of Clear Channel. For the
past few years, I have not been willing to
For me, bicycles are primarily for transporation.
Except for when I'm leisure riding (8 - 14 mph with
friends), I generally travel between 15 and 25 mph. I
generally opt for roads over bike paths or sidewalks.
Why?
###
Why not sidewalks?
* There are obstacles that often approach up to and
even
> To Cub's credit though they've quit asking for ID's
> with credit card purchases.
This is to their credit?
- Jason Goray
Sheridan NE
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REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has v
So, does anyone have anything good or bad to say
about:
JUDGE - 4TH DISTRICT COURT 1
(i) Thor Anderson vs Julie Delgado O'Neil
JUDGE - 4TH DISTRICT COURT 18
Stephen Baker vs Susan Burke
JUDGE - 4TH DISTRICT COURT 27
Kevin Kolosky vs (i) Lajune Lange
SOIL AND WATER SUPERVISOR DISTRICT 5
Gregory
I've received a lot of responses on the lawn sign
theft which have varied from honestly sympathetic and
outraged to somewhat condescending (eg: "You think
Democrats don't have anything better to do than go
around stealing lawn signs?")
One thing I should be clear on is that I was not
implicating a
Well, the Democrats are doing a good job of uniting me
with the Republicans on at least one issue.
I got back from my sister's wedding Monday night to
discover that my lawn sign supporting Tom Taylor for
State Representative District 59A had disappeared.
I'm reasonably confident that it was not a
> As I suggested in an earlier post, I can still not
> understand why Ms. Kahn was out in that district in
> the first place. Be that as it may, it is clear
> justice has been meted out and the issue will fade
> into the background. Although it is not ideal for an
> elected official to be convicted
>> David, I am talking about getting kids trained in
>> the basic adult skills of reading and math, which I
>> think every grown-up person needs to know to take
>> care of themselves. It's a different issue whether
>> the arts help professionals or scientists in their
>> careers. I am skeptical a
> The trouble with IRV is that it allows the person
> with the most votes to lose.
This is equivalent to saying that if a person gets the
most votes during the primary but loses the general
election, the current system is flawed. I'll
illustrate below.
> In my opinion, it is manifestly undemocra
As far as I'm concerned, the fewer parking lots and
ramps, the better. We have better things to do with
the space, and frankly, more difficulty finding
parking encourages use of human powered or mass
transit options. In San Francisco, I've heard
estimates that at any given time, there are 10,000
> A nice shiny new SUV, owned by a person with the
> money or gumption to maintain it pollutes far less
> than most of the little beat up old Geo Metros
> with "What Would Wellstone Do?" bumper stickers
> plastered all over them that you see smauging their
> way around Minneapolis streets all the t
Ok, this does feel a bit like chicanery, or at least
searching for a loophole, but at some point, somebody
has to ask...
Last night I was discussing the smoking ban with a
bouncer from my bar and a bartender from a bar I
frequent.
The bartender mentioned that her bar was planning to
start keeping
> There are already quite a number of "private clubs"
> in Minneapolis and one does not need a change in the
> Minneapolis City Charter to open one! The private
> clubs include veterans groups, golf/country club,
> women's clubs, service clubs, ethnic/cultural clubs,
> at least one athletic club,
For the record, my position on local level smoking
bans has shifted slightly since I previously posted on
the subject.
While I would not personally choose it, I would not
have a problem with a community passing a smoking ban
as long as it:
* Allowed for the existence of private clubs which
would
I had trouble finding some information I was looking
for on the Secretary of State's website.
When is the filing deadline for this year's elections?
What seats are up for re-election, and who is running
for those seats?
- Jason Goray
Sheridan, NE
(back from break)
_
Because I've been finding myself growing angry more
often than I like and wanting to respond to some posts
and commentary in a way that would be unwelcome to the
list, I'm unsubscribing from the forum for a while.
My skin is perhaps a bit too thin for this sort of
thing, so I need to thicken it up
I seem to recall my parents had some sort of "Co-op
Homeowners Insurance". Everyone would pay their
premiums, over the year claims would be made, and at
the end of the year, any surplus (after claims and
overhead) would be redistributed to the members (less
claims made).
I always thought this wou
>> I think there should be reasoned discussion about
>> this matter. Perhaps we want to ban smoking, but
>> we should not scare the public into thinking that
>> secondhand smoke puts them at nearly as much risk
>> as smoking itself does. It is pure deception to
>> suggest that it does.
>
> I agree
I don't have much to add to the smoking ban discussion
that I haven't said already, but (partially due to
offlist requests not to silence myself on the issue) I
would like to respond to a few things that keep being
brought up.
# To the statement that the main opposition to the ban
is bar owners an
In an effort to post something more positive and
constructive (and on a topic unrelated to smoking
bans), I submit the following:
I understand that the City of Minneapolis currently
gives preference on bids to minority- or women-owned
businesses.
Do we also give similar preference to locally owne
Last Thursday, I sent a post to the list regarding the
smoking ban that asked two questions. I have yet to
receive any answers to either of them.
The first was wondering if my understanding of the
point of view of those promoting the ban was correct.
If those who support the ban take issue with m
Prelude: To try and better understand the opinions of
those who support a smoking ban, I am attempting to
distill the differences. If I make any mistakes in my
simplifications, they are not an attempt to twist the
discussion but are an honest error or
misunderstanding. Please respond to them as su
In the interest of full disclosure, I am a 10 year
smoker who has been trying to quit off-and-on for two
to three years. I am a bouncer/barback at a nightclub
(working on getting a bartending certification) and I
play in a band that plays the bar scene. If it
weren't for these environments, quitt
Neal Krasnoff's attacks on The Babylon indicate either
a personal grudge against The Babylon or a general
grudge towards any organization who includes support
of Palestine among their political issues.
It is difficult to discuss the second aspect of the
issue without going well beyond the local is
I must admit that I shared some of the list members'
disappointment that the Mayor's choice for the next
Chief of Police ended up being an out-of-town white
male.
Being from out of town concerned me for a couple
reasons:
A non-local chief will not know the trouble spots as
well as a local officer
Does anyone have instructions on how to do plain text
posting in the Pegasus email program?
Thanks,
- Jason Goray
Sheridan NE
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REMINDERS:
1. Think a member has violated the
I owe Margaret an apology.
The email I sent regarding the formatting of her post
was meant to be private rather than sent to the entire
list server.
I have sent a number of folks on the list copies of
how their emails look after being processed by the
digest in an effort to help make the digests
Margaret,
Because it was in MIME or HTML format, your email to
the list ended up looking like the following after it
went through the digest and arrived in my inbox.
I'm uncertain which aspects were due to the digest
software and which were due to my email reader (Yahoo!
mail), but as you can see
completely open.
- phaedrus
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TEMPORARY REMINDER:
1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
2. If you don't like what's being discussed he
> I'd appreciate hearing from others, especially those
> who don't weigh in as regularly on these issues. Am
> I off-base in my defense...too defensive? If
> you feel this discussion is boring the list, please
> email me off-list. If your comments are wider in
> scope, I'll hang in here.
I know th
--- "Dooley, Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Given the recent threads regarding Minneapolis
> police-community relations, list members may be
> interested in a August 20, 2003 USA TODAY article
> entitled "Buddhism and the Badge." The article is
> about an upcoming five-day retreat in the Madiso
I was up this morning and feeling restless, so I went
for a spin on my motorbike. Took a nice cruise down
the river road, spun off onto Lake and headed up to
Franklin on my way over to Lyndale to head back down
to Bob's Java Hut.
As I was traveling along, I noticed a police cruiser
in my mirrors -
> most diabolically professorial sentence I could
> come up with. Absolutely no one got it. Ehh.
Just because no one saw a need to comment on it
doesn't mean they didn't get it.
I did find it amusing that "shade" (by which, I assume
you meant ghost) was interpretted as a tint thing.
But anyway,
> How does this list feel regarding whether the new
> police chief should be female or a racial minority
> group member? Also, should it be an insider or a
> person from another city? Or, is it the preverbal
> "best person available?"
At the risk of sounding Republican, what on earth
would their
To anyone who read my previous post and ended up with
the implication that I have experienced members of
CUAPB labeling me as a rascist or fascist for
questioning their criticism of the police, please note
the following correction/clarification.
>> The closer I am to agreeing with the people that
> Because Democrats, particularly our own DFLers, are
> such wimps the have take extra care in what they say
> and do. Republicans, on the other hand, can
> practically get away with anything because they
> know how to fight.
...
> And why would Schiff be so proud to tag along with
> the Howard D
Ok, I hate getting junk mail and getting tracked as
well, so I tend to avoid registering for a lot and
often use sites like anonymizer.com to surf
anonymously.
But first of all, less scrupulous web managers can get
a LOT of the info from the registration without asking
you for anything, especially
The thread regarding bad tenants has produced some of
the usual and some pretty interesting things.
I think my favorite was the idea of NJIMBY - which
does express the way I was looking at it. (Although,
as I think my neighborhood is middling to good, maybe
it is for NJITBY me. Not Just In Their
> [JB]So here is the question: Where do we go dancing
> with 80's music?
>
> [JM]I can't be certain that this is what you're
> looking for, but I believe Ground Zero in Northeast
used to do an
> '80s thing on Fridays. I can't say for certain that
they still do it so
> you might want to call firs
> Now that we've established the STRIDE/cowardscaucus
> connection, would any other STRIDE leaders like to
> drink from the cup of courage and claim their work?
> We're all waiting...
Cats have tails, Dogs have tails, therefore Cats are
Dogs.
or...
Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer, Henry Ford
> I hope everyone patting themselves on the back for
their work &
> school- optional humanitarian efforts will save a
little back-patting
> for our returning troops.
>From something I wrote the other day:
When we consider the men and women of the American
military, we must be grateful. These are
http://www.tolerance.org/hidden_bias/02.html
It uses an interesting methodology based on left/right
brain association. They check for hidden biases
regarding various minorities, genders, ages, body
image and sexual orientations.
To get an accurate result, it is important to go
quickly enough so t
RT brings up petitioning our congress people, and it
certainly makes sense to collect signatures for both
petitions at the same time.
###
In the past week, we've had two events:
* A report of a man sitting in his living room near a
corner known for drug dealing as a bullet flew through
followed
It is my understanding that the Mayor and city council
members opposed to voting on a resolution against a
unilateral war are opposed because they do not feel
they were given the mandate by the voters when they
were elected to city council.
Those who support the resolution would like to send a
pow
Why is it a Minneapolis issue?
Because there are a lot of folks who don't trust the
current administration's motives farther than they can
spit. Once our military, in our names, starts killing
more innocents, some of these folks are going to stand
up.
Maybe the next Seattle'99 will be here. It pr
> Seems odd that we're hung up on crowd counts. Look
> at all the forces that are against this war. Most
> European leaders. The Pope. All our Arab allies.
> To some extent, Powell. If the Star Tribune thinks
> it can undermine the groundswell that all this
> represents with low counts for on
> I've always been curious where homeless people go
> when they can't stay in shelters and public places?
> How does Minneapolis handle this issue?
Well, one guy who I met last winter spent some nights
in the shelters.
Other nights, he'd sneak/break into someone's porch or
break into an abandoned
Just a quick weigh in on this one:
I think I would like to see our city council elections
happen every two years. (using IRV to streamline and
improve voter voice, of course)
However, I think this should be left up to each city
to determine for itself. If St. Paul wants to have
their elections ev
>> RT Rybak and Paul Ostrow gave answers about
>> things changing now, about unexpected debts,
>> they had not anticipated 9-11, etc. Can
>> anyone tell me how 9-11 affected the City of
>> Minneapolis' policy or debt?
While it is the mayor and CM's responsibility to
clarify their own statement
>> A post from Fred Markus a while back regarding
Don's view of
>> Central Ave. is an example of how Don is looking at
NE.
>
> It sounded like a plan to put a small business
paying minimum
> wage and no benefits on every corner. Olin Moore
clearly has the
> vision here- he wants good paying job
> Fortune 500 company exec
That brings up another question I have:
We know that Olin Moore worked for Martin Sabo for 9
years. I'm assuming that it has been for the last 9
years and he's intending to leave if he wins the city
council seat.
I'd like to know the same about Don's employment
history
Question for Olin Moore and Don Samuels (or their
campaign staff).
Would you support IRV for local elections?
If so, would you use your position to help promote a
referendum, push for a direct vote on the city
council, or support it in some other manner?
If not, would you abstain, vote against i
My parents live in southern Wisconsin and told me that
they heard on the news that Minneapolis homeless
shelters are having lotteries to see who gets to stay
for the night and over 1,000 people are being turned
out on the streets most nights.
What's the deal?
. . .
On Block E,
> Oh, and on an
> Instead of spending money on cameras to catch red
> light runners, spend the money on 'demand-triggered
> lights' that won't be red unless there is
> opposing traffic. Most red light runners happen
> when the light is red but there is no traffic on the
> opposing street (obviously, otherwise t
;t going to be any more labor jobs
in America and those that are left will be designated
"critical industries" so future Reagans and Bushes can
stop any attempts at effective organization.
This is probably off topic, but it is not semantic
hanky panky.
- phaedrus.
After re-reading my response to Dyna's post, my
reaction is a bit more emotionally raw than I like and
touches on things outside city specifics.
For those who would still like to read the full thing
(and get links to download a couple great songs as
well as a lot of references to major political/l
> Much of Margo's support was the Northeast
traditional white
> ethnic union DFL base. Don Samuel's union bashing
will drive these
> folks straight to Olin.
Ok, Dyna,watching the tenor and tone of your posts on
this has moved me from being relatively ambivolent to
annoyed to downright angry.
Dy
Property Taxes and a short aside on the Civil
Liberties discussion.
Can someone point me at a nice concise description of
the difference between a "progressive" and
"regressive" tax?
A snapshot of property tax impact (not a statement for
or against property taxes):
The timing's kind of ironic, b
>> He may have once been DFL, but he is now a Green
>> and, from what I've seen, has the support of many
>> Greens and Green leaners.
>
> Fact: Shane was active in Paul Wellstone's campaign
> this year. Paul Wellstone is a DFLer.
The fact that he decides to support the candidate who
he feels is t
Dyna,
I'm not sure why you include Shane Price in your look
at DFL endorsedment and candidates. He may have once
been DFL, but he is now a Green and, from what I've
seen, has the support of many Greens and Green
leaners.
You feel he's an opportunist. Other people have tried
to do the same with th
--- Victoria Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andy Driscoll writes:
>
> "Rental units are a gold mine for landlords, once
cash flow out strips
> the initial investment, and that is always within
six months of
> purchase, if not immediately."
>
> Vicky Heller comments:
>
> Brookfield Develop
> I know that the rules are that a candidate must live
in the ward thirty
> days before the election. Shouldn't you have to live
in the ward
> when you file, as if to say, I have a stake, I'm
committed to the third
> ward, win or lose. Frankly, I know, people who have
filed or who
> intend to file
Jim,
I was wondering if you had any advice for what a
person from a "non"-impacted neighborhood can do to
help neighborhoods like Phillips, Ventura Village,
Jordan, etc., receive equal and fair treatment from
the city.
I don't have a lot of free time for the next couple
months, but I believe that
Well, I agree and disagree with Dyna's sentiment.
I believe that the best candidate for Ward 3 will
represent both the Northside and Northeast side
precincts. I don't care which side of the river they
are from, but I want them to care about both sides.
I can't speak for all Northeasters, but I kn
> It appears now that the law is regularly
> circumvented and has been for some time. If
> politicians lack the desire to enforce the existing
> law what is the point of keeping it? It would be one
> thing if supportive housing was distributed widely
> through the city and this revocation would tr
Jim Mork wrote
> Sheldon Mains claims to be leftist, but he can't
> understand why something good for a corporation
> is bad for a neighborhood. Well, the easy answer
> would be "because corporations generally don't
> care about the neighborhood until there's money
> in it for them." But right now
I've got an idea to improve the city and raise money
as well.
Isn't there a pretty hefty fine for littering? Lets
hire a bunch of people who are out of work and pay
them a reasonable wage to be (non uniformed) litter
police. People who can't pay the fine can be sentenced
to spend time cleaning up
I'd normally write a summary, but right now I have to
just give the link.
Worth reading about narrowing gaps in education:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9133-2002Nov5.html
- Jason Goray, Sheridan, NE
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I edited this one down to the best of my ability. I
welcome any education on editing and how to be more
concise.
If brevity is the soul of wit, I seem to be in big
trouble.
Arthur Himmelman said:
"I especially like the arguments by those who have
evidently lived through repressive forms of
socia
This is another long post. A friend suggested that due
to the length of my posts, they may be disregarded by
many on the list. If anyone out there feels that they
would prefer to read my posts if I kept them shorter,
please send me a private email.
My general concern is that I don't like sound bit
--- Ed Felien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Art Himmelman wanted to know if anyone is concerned
> about smoking in bars. For the past two and a half
> years, Pulse of the Twin Cities has been sponsoring
> Smoke Free Saturday Nights. We talk a bar owner
> into letting us keep his place smoke free
> After the smoke clears from the election, I am
> wondering if anyone thinks that there could be
> interest in a smoke-free Minneapolis campaign.
There may be interest, but I strongly oppose this
idea. Government buildings and other public spaces
that need to be accessable to everyone should be
> From the link supplied by David Brauer: "A
> fundraising consultant raised that possibility with
> library trustees recently by posing an intriguing
> question: 'If someone wanted to give you $15
> million, would you be willing to name the library
> after a person?' The immediate, if informal,
>
> "As a side note, I'd prefer it if the buses were
> run on some fuel other than diesel. I Have you
> ever gotten stuck behind a bus on a motorcycle or
> bicycle? It makes you want a gas mask!"
>
> Buses are lower on some pollutants, but diesel
> engines in general put out a lot of hydrocarbons.
>
> I stated an opinion, but unfortunately some people
> are "Personally offended" that some other person
> might have a differing idea from themselves.
>
> One more time. Either you have to be militantly pro
> bike and love riding them no matter the danger, or
> desperate for transportation so
The lock and dam building near the stone arch bridge
has an interesting history of the falls. For those
looking for a place to take their kids (or to spend
some time alone or with a friend), I'd definitely
recommend it. Watching the falls from the bridge
during the spring can be pretty awesome as w
I want to thank everyone who has been responding to
the request to discuss the Judicial candidates.
I would like to express an additional appreciation
that, in contrast to many races, this discussion has
been highly civil and for the most part sticking to
relevant information and making a point of
--- Michael Hohmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Given all the election turmoil this season, I called
> to volunteer as an election judge in my local
> precinct (hence a Mpls issue!), offering to spend
> the night counting ballots. To my chagrin, I found
> that as an independent voter, being unal
> I don't know much about how other people on this
> list think about memorials or historical markers to
> their ancestors. But I have always had trouble with
> negative monuments. I also have some sympathy for
> the Heritage Preservation Commission's mission. A
> lot of our culture is represe
There is another aspect to why the net can't replace a
library which was touched on by someone else.
A book is published and written by someone who has
rights to the intellectual property. A library works
because each copy is paid for and can only be lent out
to one person at a time.
The same cou
> Judges also apply the law differently. If you are
> victimizing school areas in Minnetonka or Linden
> Hills you will be treated far differently than you
> will in the school zones along Franklin Avenue.
> Hennepin County Judges routinely let the drug
> dealers arrested on Franklin and the Nort
I was about 3/4 finished writing this when I heard the
tragic news. I'm still having reservations about
hitting the send button, but since it's already
written, I'll send it out and you can decide whether
to read it, wait a while, or hit delete.
I'm still stunned and in shock considering our loss
> some smarmy bastard who somehow managed the audacity
> to taunt passing motorists in the wake of these
> horrible events.
I am certain that most people who support other
candidates would be appalled as you are about this
man's behavior.
I am certain that he is going to do nothing to win
suppo
I had the opportunity to read the two bills mentioned
by Rep. Kahn.
Reading HF2448 [1]: grants permanent resident
noncitizens the entitlement to vote in local goverment
elections.
Reading HF2453 [2]: allows local goverment the ability
to entitle permanent resident noncitizens to vote in
it's ele
--- Victoria Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Andy Driscoll writes:
>
> "And anything less than the ability to vote is
> taxation without representation."
>
> VH - I presume you would be in favor of businesses
> voting where they are located too.
As businesses are conceptual entities and do n
Re: State Constitutional Amendment to allows permanent
residents (non-citizens) the right to vote.
For anyone who's interested in reading the current
text, it's detailed in Article 7, Section 1:
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/cco/rules/mncon/Article7.htm
I wonder if there is any interest in all
Re: Library:
Ok, not exactly the library, but a side comment from
the thread:
- - - WM wrote (excerpt) - - -
WM: The director of the library is not a public
official; the board members of the library are public
officials. The director of the library is their
employee. So you elected this board t
VOTING:
In response to my musing ...
>> One thing I've been wondering, thinking back on
>> that whole American Revolution thing...
>>
>> If non-citizens can't vote, should they have to
>> pay taxes? What about people under 18, and people
>> who've had their civil rights stripped?
Michael Atherto
- - -
According to the 2000 census, roughly 49,000 people in
Minneapolis were not citizens.
Do Minneapolis election judges verify citizenship
before allowing votes to be counted?
- - -
One thing I've been wondering, thinking back on that
whole American Revolution thing...
If non-citizens can't v
As someone else said, if $120k isn't good enough for
them, fine, don't let the door hit 'em on the way out.
Frankly, I can't think of any job that doesn't risk
life or limb that's truly worth $120k a year
(especially when I consider that there are hard
working people out there making less than $15
Re: Socialists for Wellstone
After reading the dsausa website, I drew the same
conclusion that the original post did - that they were
attempting to import people to vote. I suppose that
would be better than standing outside a shelter with a
stack of tens and sample ballot, but it would
certainly
--- Jim MCGUIRE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've seen the billboard from the Taxpayers League
> "Light Rail Brought to you by Big Government" which
> I found highly amusing. It left me wondering who
> built the roads...
>
> The latest one, which I haven't seen (I'm told it's
> in Blaine) is s
> RT if your reading, don't bother streamlining. Open
> a mayors appeal desk. When someone had done all that
> is sensible in their app, let them come to your
> office for the quick overrule of a bureaucrat. Then
> keep track of what office or employee is leading the
> league in overules. Th
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