Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Lee Passey : > 4. Compare http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7051625M.rdf to > http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7051625M.json. You will note that the > JSON record contains references to the source text at Internet Archive, > which the RDF does not. It also contains a certain amount of > "admin

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

In my experience constraining the rdf+XML syntax does work well in making the rdf more palatable for those wanting XML. However, also from real experience, suggesting consumers use XML tools does the consumer a dis-service. Rdf is a graph, a web of relationships, which is what makes it less constr

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Yes, in my mind wanting to say more about the birth would make it worth recognising the birth event as a resource with it's own uri. Rob Styles Talis On 9 Jun 2010, at 21:41, "Karen Coyle" wrote: > Some sources have place of birth and death -- would that argue for the > bio: properties? > > kc

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

At Wed, 09 Jun 2010 13:12:56 -0600, Lee Passey wrote: > > On 6/8/2010 8:23 PM, Erik Hetzner wrote: > > [snip] > > > In my opinion, RDF is more constraining than XML, because it forces > > the designer to think clearly about the underlying model, rather than > > presenting a lot of different meta

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Some sources have place of birth and death -- would that argue for the bio: properties? kc Quoting Rob Styles : > I would normally argue for identifying all things of interest as a > resource, events being commonly overlooked. > > In that vain, identifying the birth event would make sense, how

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

I would normally argue for identifying all things of interest as a resource, events being commonly overlooked. In that vain, identifying the birth event would make sense, however my reason for trying to identify all objects of interest (including events) is that it allows you and others to say thi

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 6/8/2010 7:19 PM, Ross Singer wrote [snip] > Interesting you consider RDF/FOAF a "band-wagon", considering FOAF > predates JSON (outside of merely being considered "a subset of > JavaScript"). It might also be considered "a ranklable offense" to > disparage RDF simply because you don't unders

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 6/8/2010 8:23 PM, Erik Hetzner wrote: [snip] > In my opinion, RDF is more constraining than XML, because it forces > the designer to think clearly about the underlying model, rather than > presenting a lot of different metadata fields. Then I will leave it to you to explain to the W3C how the

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Ross Singer : > For the wikipedia link, it may also be appropriate to use > foaf:isPrimaryTopicOf rather than foaf:page, although there may not be > enough confidence in the integrity of the data to make that > assumption. That's an interesting distinction. I do like isPri... for the w

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Tom Morris wrote: > as two nodes connected by an arc or link, then the graph is the set of > all interconnected nodes and arcs.  (Although I think he's really > talking about just the subgraph of nodes and arcs represented by a > single RDF document.) > Thanks, To

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: > > Quoting Ross Singer : > > > > > > > Ed and I also had a conversation about basically providing the graph > > where you're defining the metadata about the person (or edition or > > work, etc.) at the URI http://openlibrary.org/authors/OL31800A.

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Ross Singer : > > > Ed and I also had a conversation about basically providing the graph > where you're defining the metadata about the person (or edition or > work, etc.) at the URI http://openlibrary.org/authors/OL31800A.rdf Ross, I don't know what you're referring to here as "graph" -

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Erik Hetzner : > At Tue, 08 Jun 2010 11:53:45 -0700, > > I?m not sure the distinction here between URI and URL. I think the RDF > Ross is describing is: > >foaf:page . > rdfs:label "Your > l

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 10:44 PM, Erik Hetzner wrote: >> Interesting: I used foaf:PersonalProfileDocument, which I interpreted >> to be a reference to the metadata itself (but I could be wrong). Is >> this a standard format for referring to a metadata record?: >>    http://openlibrary.org/authors/

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Lee Passey wrote: > /Is/ FOAF well-established? According to Mr. Summers, the BBC is > publishing RDF which includes some FOAF so we now have one data point, > although we don't yet know who besides the BBC itself is consuming that > data. /Is/ it extremely common?

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 10:44 PM, Erik Hetzner wrote: > I’m not sure the distinction here between URI and URL. I think the RDF > Ross is describing is: > >   foaf:page . >   rdfs:label "Your label here." . > >

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

At Tue, 08 Jun 2010 11:53:45 -0700, Karen Coyle wrote: > > Quoting Ross Singer : > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mahy"; > > rdfs:label="Your Label Here" /> > > In that case, isn't the object of rdf:resource an identifier (URI), > and not a URL? foaf has homepage, which has range docum

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 6/8/2010 2:59 PM, Erik Hetzner wrote: > Hi Lee - > > At Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:16:44 -0600, > Lee Passey wrote: >> >> On 6/8/2010 10:20 AM, Ross Singer wrote: >> >>> I think it's important to note here, that in RDF, you are -not- >>> confined to one schema. >> >> No. That RDF was designed as a sche

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Lee Passey : Thanks, Lee. I'll try to work through these to make sure that all of the data gets represented. kc > > 1. See the thread that John Miedema started on June 7. > > 2. I only look at OL data when I need a large set of data for database > testing. I recall comparing the JSON d

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Hi Lee - At Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:16:44 -0600, Lee Passey wrote: > > On 6/8/2010 10:20 AM, Ross Singer wrote: > > > I think it's important to note here, that in RDF, you are -not- > > confined to one schema. > > No. That RDF was designed as a schema aggregator, and as a way to avoid > DTD constr

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 6/8/2010 11:05 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: > Quoting Lee Passey: >> >> The key here is that the XML encoding /must/ carry /all/ of the data >> currently stored in the OL record sets, which is something that the >> current RDF API does not do. In my opinion, completeness trumps >> conformance to any

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 6/8/2010 10:20 AM, Ross Singer wrote: > I think it's important to note here, that in RDF, you are -not- > confined to one schema. No. That RDF was designed as a schema aggregator, and as a way to avoid DTD constraints, is a given. The important issues are: 1. Having aggregated as many differ

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Lee Passey wrote: > Can you give us a better description of this "ecosystem?" What existing, > or in-development, applications would consume OL data? What would they > use it for? It seems to me that the proposed preference for FOAF, with > its accompanying incompl

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Ross Singer : > > You could do something like: > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mahy";> > Your Label Here > > > > I also *think* you can shorten that even more to: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mahy"; > rdfs:label="Your Label Here" /> In that case, isn't

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: > The reason that I used ol:link instead of foaf:page was George's > desire that we include the link text. (ol:link has the structure > link/url, link/text - http://openlibrary.org/type/link). I like this > use of foaf:page -- can we get a label

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Lee Passey : > > The key here is that the XML encoding /must/ carry /all/ of the data > currently stored in the OL record sets, which is something that the > current RDF API does not do. In my opinion, completeness trumps > conformance to any particular vocabulary. Lee, could you point o

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Ross Singer : > > So, for: > http://openlibrary.org/authors/OL31800A.rdf > > You could have something like looks more like: I'm assuming this is a response to the 2nd draft RDF that I send out, given the similarities > >xmlns:rdf='http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#' >

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

I think it's important to note here, that in RDF, you are -not- confined to one schema. So for an author, you can use FOAF for the properties that FOAF covers (since it's a well-established vocabulary, extremely common and most agents that are looking for biographical information would know how to

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

___ From: ol-tech-boun...@archive.org [ol-tech-boun...@archive.org] On Behalf Of Lee Passey [...@novomail.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 11:34 AM To: ol-tech@archive.org Subject: Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views On 6/7/2010 12:12 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > On Mon, Ju

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 6/7/2010 12:12 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Lee Passey wrote: >> So before any questions about how best to represent a person in RDF can >> be addressed, you should try to find out who will be consuming the data, >> and what their expectations are. > > I think this i

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 08-Jun-10, at 5:31 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, George Oates wrote: >> Thanks - and yes, we're beginning to track RDF-related issues in >> our Launchpad: >> >> https://bugs.launchpad.net/openlibrary/+bugs?field.tag=rdf >> >> This would be Super Awesome time for yo

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, George Oates wrote: > Thanks - and yes, we're beginning to track RDF-related issues in our > Launchpad: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/openlibrary/+bugs?field.tag=rdf > > This would be Super Awesome time for you to patch the source!! Can we help you > along with th

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: > In fact, if you look at the latest version of the rdf author record I > sent out earlier today, I used foaf in every place possible, since > that is the preferred form that has been expressed. Unfortunately, > that doesn't result in a large numb

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Ed Summers : > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Lee Passey wrote: >> So before any questions about how best to represent a person in RDF can >> be addressed, you should try to find out who will be consuming the data, >> and what their expectations are. > > I think this is an important poin

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Lee Passey wrote: > So before any questions about how best to represent a person in RDF can > be addressed, you should try to find out who will be consuming the data, > and what their expectations are. I think this is an important point, and is largely why I'm in f

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 6/2/2010 9:04 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: [snip] > The problem I see with RDA's Person is > the problem I see with all of RDA which is that it is tied to FRBR > entities as classes, so if you use it you can't really get far from > FRBR. I fail to see why this is a problem. I though OL was trying t

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Jonathan Rochkind : > You're allowed to put 'nested' XML inside dcterms:X elements? For some > reason I thought you werne't. Cool. Are you referring to this?: http://purl.org/dc/terms/LCC"/> PZ3.L81146 Rai I would need to check, but that fact that dcam is in there makes m

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

You're allowed to put 'nested' XML inside dcterms:X elements? For some reason I thought you werne't. Cool. Ed Summers wrote: > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: > >> Have you tried an Edition in RDF? The Work and Author ones are just stubs >> that Anand created. >> >> Here's

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: > Have you tried an Edition in RDF? The Work and Author ones are just stubs > that Anand created. > > Here's an Edition rdf: > http://openlibrary.org/books/OL6026352M.rdf No, I hadn't seen that yet! That is a perfect example of what the rdf data

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

To make things a big more concrete: http://kcoyle.net/temp/comparePersonVocabs.pdf is my comparison between BIO, FOAF, RDA, and the OL author type. I underlined fields that I though could be used, but don't consider this definitive. kc -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph:

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: > I have fantasized that we could create a good mix between RDA and FOAF > (and they have only 3 or 4 elements in common - I did a comparison). > RDA lacks all of the interesting elements for living persons: address, > email, web site. And FOAF l

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

At Wed, 2 Jun 2010 11:09:02 +0530, Anand Chitipothu wrote: > > > On 02-Jun-10, at 7:34 AM, Ed Summers wrote: > > > Just another quick update to let you know I emailed foaf-dev for > > advice: > > > > http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-dev/2010-June/ > > 010253.html > > > > To start hacki

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Ed Summers : > So if you have that data it sounds like it might be a good use case > for the RDA vocab? I'm not tracking the current state of the RDA > vocab...is there a good overview somewhere? In my limited exposure it > seems somewhat monolithic, in that it doesn't seem to reuse or co

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: > Meanwhile, it seems to me that in general we need a more "grown up" > foaf -- one that is less oriented to social networking sites, and more > toward general applications (e.g. alternate names rather than just > nick name). Either that or a real

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Anand Chitipothu begin_of_the_skype_highlighting end_of_the_skype_highlighting : > > Right now, the template for rendering RDF for editions is at: > http://openlibrary.org/upstream/templates/type/edition/rdf.tmpl That's the template I did last year. I think it's in pretty good

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Ed Summers : > > It might be worth prodding the foaf-dev [3] discussion list to see > what other people have used in the past for alternate names. I guess I > can do that and report back here if you like? That would be interesting, yes, please do. Meanwhile, it seems to me that in gener

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

A few more issues with RDF: * author/work RDF does not contain rdf:Description (https://bugs.launchpad.net/openlibrary/+bug/588596) * Author/work namespace for RDF wants slash or hash (https://bugs.launchpad.net/openlibrary/+bug/588598) * use of http://openlibrary.org.rdf all over the place,

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 02-Jun-10, at 7:34 AM, Ed Summers wrote: > Just another quick update to let you know I emailed foaf-dev for > advice: > > http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-dev/2010-June/ > 010253.html > > To start hacking on the code I'd need to get a develop instance up and > running which I i

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Just another quick update to let you know I emailed foaf-dev for advice: http://lists.foaf-project.org/pipermail/foaf-dev/2010-June/010253.html To start hacking on the code I'd need to get a develop instance up and running which I imagine could take some time. Unfortunately I've got a few other

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

I know I was just suggesting you model People as foaf:Person instead of skos:Concept ... but you might want to consider using skos:altLabel to model alternate names for people. skos labeling properties were designed for labeling resources that aren't necessarily of type skos:Concept [1]. The domai

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Yes, it would be useful in the author records. I'm not sure what to call them, however... foaf doesn't have a field for that. I'll poke around. kc Quoting George Oates : > Wondering if we might want to consider exposing our Alternate Names fields. > > We've begun working on a tool to merge

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Wondering if we might want to consider exposing our Alternate Names fields. We've begun working on a tool to merge dupe authors, and as we do, we pop their alternates into the "master" author record. E.g. http://openlibrary.org/authors/OL77200A/John_Locke Would that be useful? g Karen Coyle w

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Ed Summers : While you definitely could use rdf:value, > since you are modeling people why not introduce a bit of foaf? > > http://openlibrary.org/authors/OL22022A";> > Barbara Cartland > Thanks, Ed. This is really a perfect situation for foaf. I'll spec it that way. (Anand is prob

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Karen Coyle wrote: > Agreed. However, we aren't using SKOS, so I'm thinking we'll use > something like: > > http://openlibrary.org/authors/OL22022A";> >          Barbara Cartland >       > > Does that work for folks? Can you embed those rdf:Description > properties

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Oops :) Excuse me! Anand Chitipothu wrote: > On 01-Jun-10, at 7:28 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > >> Kudos for keeping the linkeddata rdf views in the new version of >> OpenLibrary. I just noticed that the application/rdf+xml views seem to >> lack a namespace prefix definition for 'rdf'. This causes

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Hi Ed, Thanks - and yes, we're beginning to track RDF-related issues in our Launchpad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openlibrary/+bugs?field.tag=rdf This would be Super Awesome time for you to patch the source!! Can we help you along with that? Cheers, george Ed Summers wrote: > Kudos for keepi

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Quoting Ed Summers : > > I agree with Jim. In an ideal world I think both is preferable...and > its doable from an rdf perspective. Clients would get a label to > display to a user, without having to resolve another identifier. And > they would also get a nice shiny author identifier to learn more

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

> Karen Coyle wrote: > There are two possible values for author: the author ID and the author > name. It seems to me that both are of interest -- the author ID would > be another entry point for getting more info, but the author name > allows immediate use/display of the work data. Would it be use

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Karen Coyle wrote: > There are two possible values for author: the author ID and the author > name. It seems to me that both are of interest -- the author ID would > be another entry point for getting more info, but the author name > allows immediate use/display of the work data. Would it b

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Ed, There are two possible values for author: the author ID and the author name. It seems to me that both are of interest -- the author ID would be another entry point for getting more info, but the author name allows immediate use/display of the work data. Would it be useful to have both?

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

e...@curry:~/Downloads$ xmllint --format http://openlibrary.org/works/OL158398W.rdf http://openlibrary.org/works/OL158398W.rdf:4: namespace error : Namespace prefix rdf on RDF is not defined This error is fixed now. Anand___ Ol-tech mailing list Ol-t

Re: [ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

On 01-Jun-10, at 7:28 PM, Ed Summers wrote: > Kudos for keeping the linkeddata rdf views in the new version of > OpenLibrary. I just noticed that the application/rdf+xml views seem to > lack a namespace prefix definition for 'rdf'. This causes some tools > to choke when parsing the XML. Also I no

[ol-tech] a few notes on rdf views

Kudos for keeping the linkeddata rdf views in the new version of OpenLibrary. I just noticed that the application/rdf+xml views seem to lack a namespace prefix definition for 'rdf'. This causes some tools to choke when parsing the XML. Also I noticed that the element seems to have the wrong inform