>Adding aliases to the dist, IMO, would be very bad. People would use dir,
>or md, or whatever, without ever knowing the corresponding Linux commands.
>What would motivate people to learn the OS this way?
Ok, what about
$ cat dir
echo I think you meant ls... (see: 'man ls')
Jumping in late here, I was on holidays...
>I'm afraid I need to disagree with this. I picked up linux mostly because
>I wanted to have some understanding of unix, but it does have potential to
>be a desktop os. Think about the ease of use complaints, the original
>poster complained about not kno
>
> WGS (WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.), at http://www.WGS.com, sent"Linux Pro" release
> 5.4. As a newbie, having 9 distros available, with none loaded to date, I decided
> to start with this. On the ASUS TX-97-E board, I selected "CDROM, A,C" in BIOS for
> boot and loaded it on a new 1.2 GB drive.
On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Douglas F. Elznic wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Patrick T. Berry wrote:
> > So, I had hoped to install RedHat 5.4 Pro today, but my day went from busy to
> > hectic.
> is that a typo? What is Redhat 5.4 Pro?
I hope it is a typo. Otherwise, it is the first time I hear about i
On 27 Mar, Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:01:40AM -0600, Victoria Stanfield wrote:
>> Your reply was both unnecessary and juvenile. The guy should have read
>> the manual. We all know that.
>
> I'm not sure *he* knew that, but regardless, I felt my reply was completely
> nece
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Patrick T. Berry wrote:
> So, I had hoped to install RedHat 5.4 Pro today, but my day went from busy to
> hectic.
is that a typo? What is Redhat 5.4 Pro?
--
Douglas F. Elznic
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"If they give you lined paper, write the other way."
Freedom through Electronic Res
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> >I read your original rant about Linux and frankly was wondering
> about you.
> I've made a mistake here. The original rant was from Mat Serwas
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
That's ok. You youngsters are allowed to goof. Now, when you get on _MY_
side of 50... 8^).
> I
On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 04:02:40PM -, Edmunds, Keith wrote:
> On Friday, March 27, 1998 3:02 PM, Victoria Stanfield
> [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> > On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, nearly comatose, Rich Kulawiec managed to scribble:
> >
> > ::On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 01:49:24AM -, Mat Serwas wro
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Joe Klemmer wrote:
[...]
>Linux is NOT in competition with anything MS produces.
Huh? Since when? What, then, *is* Linux competing with? What niche
market does Linux serve without competition?
Many many scientists are rather fond of linux and much less so
of anything micr
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Steve "Stevers!" Coile wrote:
> Don't get stuck in an "us versus them" mentality. Just because Microsoft
> does something doesn't mean Microsoft's doing it wrong. If people
I'm not. I don't have any religious dislike for Microsoft. I like their
context sensitive help, fo
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Joe Klemmer wrote:
[...]
>Linux is NOT in competition with anything MS produces.
Huh? Since when? What, then, *is* Linux competing with? What niche
market does Linux serve without competition?
--
Steve Coile
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
PLEASE read the Red Hat FAQ, Tip
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Keith Dart wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Steve "Stevers!" Coile wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Greg Thomas wrote:
>> [...]
>> >So they get a job or something where there are Linux machines and they
>> >go and try md and it isn't there, they're gonna go crazy, right? Wrong?
>>
Please do not send emails to this address
Junaid
--
PLEASE read the Red Hat FAQ, Tips, Errata and the MAILING LIST ARCHIVES!
http://www.redhat.com/RedHat-FAQ /RedHat-Errata /RedHat-Tips /mailing-lists
To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
"unsubscribe"
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Joe Klemmer wrote:
[...]
>Making the move to Linux means you're going to be exposed to, and likely
>work on, other *NIX flavors.
That's not a valid assumption.
>What good is it to alias a command that works on dozens of other systems
>to something that only works on three?
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Joe Klemmer wrote:
>
> That's basically like saying that an F-16 should be made as easy
> to use as a glider. Or something like a F1 racing car made to function
> like a peddle car. Yes, Linux or any UNIX can be used as a desktop OS but
> to expect the system to be l
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Joe Klemmer wrote:
[...]
>That's basically like saying that an F-16 should be made as easy to use
>as a glider.
Careful. There's a big difference between "being as easy to use" and
"being as capable as". For instance, I'm sure the pilot of an F-16
wants the plane to be as e
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Felix wrote:
> Somehow, through documentation, installation procedures, powerful apps,
> GUI's or what-have-you, Linux needs to step beyond the "High end server OS" and
> "garage hobbyist" to appeal to the non-tinkerer types. Only then can it really
> compete with Window
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Steve "Stevers!" Coile wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Greg Thomas wrote:
> [...]
> >So they get a job or something where there are Linux machines and they
> >go and try md and it isn't there, they're gonna go crazy, right? Wrong?
>
> But that's already going to be the case.
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Craig Kattner wrote:
> There's a lot of talk on this list about using FVWM95 as a default window
> manager because it's familiar, but what about command line familiarity? Is
> there no value to that?
Making the move to Linux means you're going to be exposed to, and
l
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, William T Wilson wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Steve "Stevers!" Coile wrote:
>> who will? Are we to hope that UNIX will have the same, cryptic interface
>> in 10 years that it has today, or should we hope that it will improve?
>
>No, we should hope that it will improve. But r
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Craig Kattner wrote:
> I'm afraid I need to disagree with this. I picked up linux mostly
> because I wanted to have some understanding of unix, but it does have
> potential to be a desktop os. Think about the ease of use complaints,
> the original poster complained about not
No pun intended, I'm sure, and besides, we all tend to rant and babble
occasionally.
So, I had hoped to install RedHat 5.4 Pro today, but my day went from busy to
hectic.
Vidiot wrote:
> I've made a mistake here. The original rant was from Mat Serwas
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
>
> I'm sorry to mix y
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Steve "Stevers!" Coile wrote:
> who will? Are we to hope that UNIX will have the same, cryptic interface
> in 10 years that it has today, or should we hope that it will improve?
No, we should hope that it will improve. But replacing all the Unix
commands with identical DOS
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Greg Thomas wrote:
[...]
>...but don't you think a pre-existing alias in a particular distribution
>would cause confusion? If somebody started new and typed in md and
>it worked they would not even wonder if it was a Linux native command.
>So they get a job or something where
> >Adding aliases to the dist, IMO, would be very bad. People would use dir,
> >or md, or whatever, without ever knowing the corresponding Linux commands.
> >What would motivate people to learn the OS this way?
>
> Why should they have to? If the aliases allow the users to get their
> work done
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Greg Thomas wrote:
[...]
>Adding aliases to the dist, IMO, would be very bad. People would use dir,
>or md, or whatever, without ever knowing the corresponding Linux commands.
>What would motivate people to learn the OS this way?
Why should they have to? If the aliases allo
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Craig Kattner wrote:
[...]
>Different means to the same end in this case is hardly faulty. And, if
>you don't like them odds are you know how to change them.
That is an invalid assumption. Presumably, if you don't like "ls",
you know enough to know how to define a "dir" alia
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Steve "Stevers!" Coile wrote:
> the case, prompts are and always have been a very personal thing.
I think it's the first thing in a long time that we agreed on :)
> But that's good for newbies. In a multi-user environment such as an
> ISP, adding "-i" to everything is *ver
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Bruce Tong wrote:
[...]
>* Each machine will eventually be a web server as this is how individuals
>will collaborate their work as well as access their own information
>from remote locations. Already Linux is like this. MacOS now ships with
>"Personal Web Sharing." Windows wil
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, William T Wilson wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Greg Thomas wrote:
>>Adding aliases to the dist, IMO, would be very bad. People would use dir,
>>or md, or whatever, without ever knowing the corresponding Linux commands.
>>What would motivate people to learn the OS this way?
>
>
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Greg Thomas wrote:
> Adding aliases to the dist, IMO, would be very bad. People would use dir,
> or md, or whatever, without ever knowing the corresponding Linux commands.
> What would motivate people to learn the OS this way?
I have mixed feelings here. The first thing
> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE kill this thread. There's all sorts of advocacy
> newsgroups that are extremely suited for bickering about little differeing
> opinions or big differing opinions. I'm subscribed to this list because I
> want to have access to valuable information and experiences, NOT opinion
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE kill this thread. There's all sorts of advocacy
newsgroups that are extremely suited for bickering about little differeing
opinions or big differing opinions. I'm subscribed to this list because I
want to have access to valuable information and experiences, NOT opinions
abo
---Reply on mail from Greg Thomas about Not a Desktop OS
> Also, I see more newbies, like myself, make their first post to the list
> because they want to know how to get rid of FVWM95 because they don't want
> something that emulates Win95 and they want to try something new.
>
> Greg
I sugge
> >The basic problem with all this is that Linux is NOT a desktop OS
> >like Win3/95 or OS/2 or the Mac. It's a high end server OS.
I think Linux challenges the notion of "server OS" vs "desktop OS." And I
believe the current (small) marketing efforts for Linux support this,
although perhaps
> >
> > Adding aliases to the dist, IMO, would be very bad. People would use dir,
> > or md, or whatever, without ever knowing the corresponding Linux commands.
> > What would motivate people to learn the OS this way?
> >
> I use aliases for a lot of that stuff, but still need to some things
> >Who the bloody hell reads the @#%^ing manual?! Pleezze.
>
> I am bizarre. I *like* reading manuals.
Funny that. Most of the clued people I know (and I am blessed to know
many) read manuals habitually and enjoy it.
The others I'm conviced are reading the manuals under their covers with a
fla
Joe Klemmer wrote:
>The basic problem with all this is that Linux is NOT a desktop OS
>like Win3/95 or OS/2 or the Mac. It's a high end server OS.
>It's not even in the same category as Win95.
^^^
And
Claire Bradford wrote:
>Unix is an opertaing s
--
| From: Lane J. Bryson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
///
Lane,
the article in the latest issue of infoworld [Sandy ??]
Mat
>
| To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Subject: Re: thanks, but no thanks
| Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 3:10 PM
|
| Phil Risby wrote:
| >
| >
> > I'm afraid I need to disagree with this. I picked up linux mostly because
> > I wanted to have some understanding of unix, but it does have potential to
> > be a desktop os. Think about the ease of use complaints, the original
> > poster complained about not knowing how to even change director
I'm using RH 5.0 on my desktop, and planning to upgrade my users to it :
- RH 5.0
- StarOffice 4.0, when StarDiv issue a french version
- Netscape Communicator 4
- Java intranet applications we're developping
- MySQL
...
We just need to choose comp
> I'm afraid I need to disagree with this. I picked up linux mostly because
> I wanted to have some understanding of unix, but it does have potential to
> be a desktop os. Think about the ease of use complaints, the original
> poster complained about not knowing how to even change directories. Wou
> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:55:23 +0100
> From: Koen Colpaert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: thanks, but no thanks
> Resent-Date: 27 Mar 1998 12:55:18 -
> Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Resent-cc: recipie
> I agree. I personaly don't like Windoze, but there are thing
> Linux can learn from MS: mainly, some easy to use interfaces that can
> help those who just bought Linux to configure their machines and learn
> the basics, so they would be able to go deeper after that.
Could be
> > I agree. I personaly don't like Windoze, but there are thing
> > Linux can learn from MS: mainly, some easy to use interfaces that can
> > help those who just bought Linux to configure their machines and learn
> > the basics, so they would be able to go deeper after that..
>
> The
>I personally found the RedHat docs pretty easy to follow, and at the time
>my first install of RedHat and I was new to Unix. After reading on the web
>and asking a few colleagues I managed to install it over a weekend and
>learnt lots from my mistakes :)
It's like the old software dictum: build
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I agree. I personaly don't like Windoze, but there are thing
> Linux can learn from MS: mainly, some easy to use interfaces that can
> help those who just bought Linux to configure their machines and learn
> the basics, so they would be able to
> I read your original rant about Linux and frankly was wondering about you.
> You had to have known that you were installing a Unix operating system. If
> you didn't know what you were installing, then you shouldn't have gotten it.
> If you did know that it was Unix, and you know nothing about U
>
>Patrick T. Berry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was noted to babble:
>
>>A better manual may not help, as when I learned heathdos,cp/m, etc., I
>>finally had to confer with the guru's in User Groups, when the web was
>>Easylink, by Western Union. There will always be a place for a forum,
>> and I think
I agree with this completely.
We *can* learn from MS
They produce a very successful OS, , it is popular, it sells, AND it dont work
well.
If there is concern for getting Linux more into the main stream, if there is a
desire to have more software written and ported, then numbers of users is
import
Mat Serwas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ranted:
>So I took a break, grabbed the RedHAT paperback and headed for my 6ft x 6ft
>office. Leafed around the book, found a few things, including SHUTDOWN
>NOW -r [I still don't know what will happen if I leave out the "-r"]. My
>tail dropped
>into the water whe
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Vidiot wrote:
> Patrick T. Berry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was noted to babble:
> I'm 49 and have been working with Unix for about 20 years, so it isn't new
> to me, but I still learn new things about Unix all the time. It is a
> continuing learning process as new things come alo
>
> I made the boot floppy. Plugged it in, pushed the reset and watched what
> might have been an OS/2 config.sys jerkingly scroll by on that good ole DOS
> black panel.
> THen it stopped, started to ask questions. I answered. It said, and do
> you
> want to install LILO? Sure, why not. Would
. 26, 1962.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: March 27, 1998 8:28 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: thanks, but no thanks
>Just have to chime in here.
>
>Who the bloody hell reads the @#%^ing manual?! Pleezze.
I am bizarre. I *like* r
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Just have to chime in here.
> >
> >Who the bloody hell reads the @#%^ing manual?! Pleezze.
>
> I am bizarre. I *like* reading manuals.
>
Correction you are intelligent...
--
Douglas F. Elznic
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"If they give you lined paper, wri
Patrick T. Berry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was noted to babble:
>A better manual may not help, as when I learned heathdos,cp/m, etc., I
>finally had to confer with the guru's in User Groups, when the web was
>Easylink, by Western Union. There will always be a place for a forum,
> and I think also one
>Just have to chime in here.
>
>Who the bloody hell reads the @#%^ing manual?! Pleezze.
I am bizarre. I *like* reading manuals.
DL
--
PLEASE read the Red Hat FAQ, Tips, Errata and the MAILING LIST ARCHIVES!
http://www.redhat.com/RedHat-FAQ /RedHat-Errata /RedHat-Tips /mailing-lists
This whole thread bothers me. When you start to read you don't start with
war an peace, and when you start to walk you don't run a marathon. A
little work and practice can get you ready for anything. I started with
linux when I was 14. I had a little unix experience but that was from a
shell acoun
I agree. I personaly don't like Windoze, but there are thing Linux
can learn from MS: mainly, some easy to use interfaces that can help
those who just bought Linux to configure their machines and learn the
basics, so they would be able to go deeper after that..
--
Andrei Postolache, Roma
Would it not be safe to say that if you do not want to make concessions
to whining, that;
1) you would not take the time to respond to their messages
2) provided you have not time for this person, if you still found the need to
respond you could do it in a constructive way.~!
It is important for
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, nearly comatose, Rich Kulawiec managed to scribble:
::On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:01:40AM -0600, Victoria Stanfield wrote:
::> Your reply was both unnecessary and juvenile. The guy should have read
::> the manual. We all know that.
::
::I'm not sure *he* knew that, but regar
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: thanks, but no thanks
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, nearly comatose, Rich Kulawiec managed to scribble:
::On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 01:49:24AM -, Mat Serwas wrote:
::> OK, I admit, I'm lazy, and didn't read the book.
::
::Then suffer.
::
On Friday, March 27, 1998 3:02 PM, Victoria Stanfield
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, nearly comatose, Rich Kulawiec managed to scribble:
>
> ::On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 01:49:24AM -, Mat Serwas wrote:
> ::> OK, I admit, I'm lazy, and didn't read the book.
> ::
> ::Then
On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 09:01:40AM -0600, Victoria Stanfield wrote:
> Your reply was both unnecessary and juvenile. The guy should have read
> the manual. We all know that.
I'm not sure *he* knew that, but regardless, I felt my reply was completely
necessary and quite accurate. I've no time or
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Mat Serwas wrote:
[snip]
> RED HAT, LINUX? why not. 30 years legacy. Salt of the earth. The mother
> of all that is hallowed in the computer world.
>
> I bought it. RED Hat. V4.2.x.x.x.x. Opened the box, shook out the contents
> and out dropped some free NET ad
Between the 2 X's I have used i find it rather friendly.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> An user friendly GUI would help, but that should be just an app (X
> for instance) and not the OS itself.
> I like Linux mainly for one reason : using Linux , "the computer
> is mine", i know ev
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, nearly comatose, Rich Kulawiec managed to scribble:
::On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 01:49:24AM -, Mat Serwas wrote:
::> OK, I admit, I'm lazy, and didn't read the book.
::
::Then suffer.
::
::---Rsk
::Rich Kulawiec
::[EMAIL PROTECTED]
::
::
::--
:: PLEASE read the Red Hat F
Phil Risby wrote:
>
> Apart from a stuck Cap Lock key, this is very valid.
> Linux would reach more people if more people could install it without tech
> help
[snip]
I personally see linux as a contender OS for high-end systems. And
perhaps
until we have the ergonomics worked out, isn't that w
On Fri, Mar 27, 1998 at 01:49:24AM -, Mat Serwas wrote:
> OK, I admit, I'm lazy, and didn't read the book.
Then suffer.
---Rsk
Rich Kulawiec
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
PLEASE read the Red Hat FAQ, Tips, Errata and the MAILING LIST ARCHIVES!
http://www.redhat.com/RedHat-FAQ /RedHat-Errata /R
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Keith Dart wrote:
> > neglected in most of the distribtuion I seem so far. Perhaps, it is
> > something worth working on? Maybe to entice more people to switch to
> > Linux as an alternative to Windows 95. (It is more feasible now, with
> > Corel WordPerfect, Applixware, I
An user friendly GUI would help, but that should be just an app (X
for instance) and not the OS itself.
I like Linux mainly for one reason : using Linux , "the computer
is mine", i know everything what's goind on, i could change anything if i
wanted and if i could.
I don
A better manual may not help, as when I learned heathdos,cp/m, etc., I
finally had to confer with the guru's in User Groups, when the web was
Easylink, by Western Union. There will always be a place for a forum,
and I think also one answer is small business support of LUG's is growing,
and also
Phil Risby schreef:
> Linux would reach more people if more people could install it without tech
> help
This is correct. I'm an Linux newbie. You can't get any more new to this OS as
me. I installed Redhat 4.2 last friday and I must say it works good. The
installationprocedure was not that diffi
Apart from a stuck Cap Lock key, this is very valid.
Linux would reach more people if more people could install it without tech
help
Terminology is important here, if not using the familiar DOS terms then the
paper work should clearly explain what is meant and what the new user need to
do.
A bette
Let us remember that we chase the rainbow, those who persue knowledge. There
is always another "gotcha" around the corner. As I learn more, I realize there
is
more to learn. I am joyous to discover that my curious wandering mind will not
lack for questions to ponder. So, this retired USAF tec
> BUT I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO LEARN ANOTHER DAMNED SYSTEM,
> AND WORK FOR THE COMPUTER, WASTING MY GOOD TIME SEARCHING
> FOR 'DLL'S, LOST FILES, UPGRADES, TWEAKING THE HARDWARE AND
> SOFTWARE.
snip snip snip...
I think you need a new keyboard let alone a new OS, seems your caps lock
key is br
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, CHIH-HSIANG HENRY YAO wrote:
> He has a point. Windows 95, with all its falut, still is a very
> user friendly system. If you have fully compliant system, usuall you
> won't have any problems installing it. I still strongly believe that
> Linux can mold into a deskto
He has a point. Windows 95, with all its falut, still is a very
user friendly system. If you have fully compliant system, usuall you
won't have any problems installing it. I still strongly believe that
Linux can mold into a desktop much like Windows 95 in its good ways. A
user friendly
On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Mat Serwas wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> Thank you for your reply.
>
> Just would like to add a few comments about Redhat:
It sounds like you need to go to an "Install Fest". Where do you live? If
you live in the SF Bay area (or Silicon Valley) you can go the the SVLUG
Install F
Gentlemen,
Thank you for your reply.
Just would like to add a few comments about Redhat:
I just read [INFO WORLD] where Linux has a larger installed base than
OS/2 [5 million] and Apple [1 million].
When I bought my first computer 10 years ago, it was a 386i running DOS
3.0. All command line
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