Not so, dear friend.
Gold like any other element (other than the noble gases) has an electron
affinity that can be easily overcome by electrolysis. A few volts is all
that is required.
Chemical Predictor Ver 3.0
Copyright © 1997-1998 Ivan Kassal
Half reaction data:
Half reaction:
Au - Au+++ +
Playing catch-up Dean,
- Original Message -
From: Dean T. Miller dtmil...@midiowa.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, 21 October 2000 06:50
Subject: Re: CSRe: Interesting, simple H202 experiment
Hi Ivan,
On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:44:29 +1300, Ivan Anderson i...@win.co.nz
No problem Terry,
Hope I didn't over-react myself.
Ivan.
- Original Message -
From: Terry Wayne tw...@yahoo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, 21 October 2000 19:18
Subject: CSPoor judgement
Listers and CS techies,
I recently posted an email that I subsequently read
Thanks for that James,
Nice idea.
Have had the idea of using an unglazed terracotta pot inside a s/steel
pot, dropping a s/steel bar into that as the negative electrode and the
s/steel pot as the positive. I believe that these ceramic pots are
permeable to ions. The alkaline fraction would appear
Yes Bob,
I suppose you are right...
All the same I hate loose ends.
Roughly, if you have 3780 cc 10ppm CS then the weight of the silver is
3780 gm divided by 100,000 which equals 0.03gm. 1 cc of 3% H2O2 weighs
about 0.03 x 2 = 0.06gm so the two compounds are not dissimilar in
quantity.
Did this get answered Del?
Any way...
The method works only if there is sufficient dissolved solids in the
water. The metallic ions are drawn towards to negative electrode, and
carry with them a layer of water which includes any free OH- (hydroxyl)
ions present. The opposite happens at the
- Original Message -
From: russ e rosser russros...@juno.com
Ivan Anderson i...@win.co.nz writes:
Water ionisation is not necessary and is indeed undesirable...
Intersting--why?
Wastes energy and has the potential to form silver oxides (not
necessarily bad) and probably means that
- Original Message -
From: rogalt...@aol.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, 23 October 2000 02:07
Subject: Re: CSRe: Interesting, simple H202 experiment
In a message dated 10/21/00 2:01:21 AM EST, i...@win.co.nz writes:
The reaction :
2(Ag) + H2O2 + 2H+ + 2e
OOOPS!
Pressed send without writing anything.
Which was going to be only that, I'll put it on the 'to do' list
Roger...along with those other things I have promised.
Would be interesting.
Ivan.
- Original Message -
From: rogalt...@aol.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, 23
I have heard tell that Roman soldiers used to swallow a silver coin to
keep themselves healthy, and then re-swallow etc.
Ivan.
- Original Message -
From: Duncan Crow duncanc...@yahoo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2000 08:09
Subject: Re: CSFriendly bacteria
Sounds pretty good to me!
Ivan.
- Original Message -
From: Carol Mike Fuller car...@touch88.com.au
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2000 14:35
Subject: CSDetails...
Hi Ole Bob
Ah, details, everybody wants details :-)
Ok, I have a pulsed DC output at 20 - 25
Hi Tracy,
The murky stuff is the silver that has disassociated from the positive
electrode (anode) and is suspended in the water. The reason you see this
is that your generator runs at a fairly high voltage and has no current
limiting...the more silver in the water the higher your current will
- Original Message -
From: Robert Bartell rbart...@drfast.net
Roger: Don't know how in the world I let that slip by me! The thought
of
contamination from the filter never occurred to me. Can't take
anything for
granted anymore, can you? Now you've gone and got me paranoid about my
- Original Message -
From: rob gr gotl...@hotmail.com
Tetanus is a bug that forms endospores...endospores can survive
boiling
water for over 2 hours... Might want to get them immunized. Not sure
if CS
will work here, or work in time.
Only form endospores in the soil, otherwise
Salt catalyses the generating process, sounds fancy... just means it
increases conductivity of the water. The yellow is largish silver
particles, produced because the conductivity has been catalysed.
Ivan.
- Original Message -
From: Duncan Crow duncanc...@yahoo.com
To:
In a message dated 10/29/00 10:16:41 PM EST, superflo...@webtv.net writes:
Subj: CSstructured water hooey?
Date: 10/29/00 10:16:41 PM EST
From: superflo...@webtv.net (A :. A :.)
Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com
To:silver-list@eskimo.com
please don't fall for the structured
In a message dated 10/29/00 10:38:49 PM EST, mdev...@eskimo.com writes:
Subj: Re: CSfish tanks
Date: 10/29/00 10:38:49 PM EST
From: mdev...@eskimo.com (M. G. Devour)
Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com
To:silver-list@eskimo.com
Hi all,
I haven't posted on this sub-topic
i tend to distrust things with bizzar-O claims until i have
investigated them personally.
like CS :-)
structured kinetic water tho still has to pass muster.
can you explain what makes the water structured? what exactly is
kinetic energy
water? how is it made and how is it different than
It is not unusual to get some fallout of the larger particles, even with the
HVAC process. The active part should still be suspended. At one time we
tried to filter out any larger particles, but the filters added so much
contamination, we found it made the CS unstable.
For internal use, I would
A :. A :. wrote:
i get my bulbs from wally world for about $5
each and they look just like regular bulbs.
Wally world? Isn't that the Amusement Park where they were going in
Vacation?
Marshall
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
To join or quit
I was told of a test where identical fish were used to compare Grander /
Living Water to tap water. The tanks where sealed; the tap water fish
suffocated in ~7 days as usual; the Grander fish lived ~256 days,
whereupon the experimint was terminated.--Russ
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:51:01 EST
From what I have read, copper stains pools. I don't think silver has the same
problem.
Marshall
russ e rosser wrote:
I knew of a man in Louisianna who mfr'ed a flow-through copper
colloidalizer for swimming pool sterilization...claimed it works. -Russ
On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:40:45
rogalt...@aol.com wrote:
The comment on colloidal copper in swimming pools was interesting...does
anyone know of a colloidal copper mix suitable for fish tanks, or at
approximately what level fish start to get uncomfortable?? I know they can
survive some mineral...but I don't want to
In simplest terms Kinetic means energy in motion.
Blessings
Rev. Ted
A :. A :. wrote:
i tend to distrust things with bizzar-O claims until i have
investigated them personally.
like CS :-)
structured kinetic water tho still has to pass muster.
can you explain what makes the water
Portable, wearable Pulsed Magnet Therapy devices may eventually
supercede
static magnets. The reason is that they pulse at ( sometimes
selectable )
therapeutic brainwave frequencies. You can find some at
www.magnapak.com (2
wearable models and a table model) and www.vitamag.com . Some
I am not convinced that small amounts of CS in a fish tank will destroy the
biological filter. Once again we get back to the fact that CS is quite
ineffective in solid medium. I believe, but have not confirmed, that there is a
level of CS that will keep the tank healthy, even cure diseased fish,
This is certainly most interesting.
How realistic is it to make a counter-EMF device? Shielding is one thing, but
to defeat common 60Hz with something EM would be incredible. I can't even
fathom the equations or principle one would have to bear in mind when
developing such a device.
Anyone?
For swimming pools, copper and silver ions work very well together, some water
systems have used this to control algae.
Blessings
Rev. Ted
Marshall Dudley wrote:
From what I have read, copper stains pools. I don't think silver has the
same
problem.
Marshall
russ e rosser wrote:
I
cking...@nycap.rr.com wrote:
All I know is to be careful with metal supplements.
Copper is recommended to be only 3mg/day for adults and toxic at high/regular
doses. Same with iron and other metals. When I add supplements I try to
research
toxic doses because I usually go at the megadose
Ted Windsor wrote:
I make CG using a Sota Silver Pulser, I use gold rods 99% and make it the
same way
as I make CS. The only difference is now instead of using distilled water, I
use
Kinetic Energy water and make both CS and CG with water at room tempture,
using a
vision ware pot it
A :. A :. wrote:
i always thought kinetic energy was just
'potential' energy.
Kenetic energy and potential energy are two different forms of energy. Water
behind a
dam is potential energy, water going over the dam, and the electricity made by
water
going through the turbines is kinetic
Trem wrote:
Hi Ted,
This is REALLY bothering me. Do the gold electrodes go through ANY change?
That is, do they lose their smoothness, turn color, look as though they are
loosing any metal, etc. Please tell us your observations.
This is really a quandary for me because it goes directly
A :. A :. wrote:
once upon a time here, a feller gave a method for making colloidal gold
by what he called a
cold sparking process. it involved a radio shack
120v to 12v transformer which cost about 25
bucks, distilled water, and 24k gold wire that had been kinked and
twisted a bit. he
Hi Dennis:
I do not make any bizarre claims, my past posts have stated what this Kinetic
Water has done for some people, like many people on this list I got tired of
suffering and started looking at other methods of healing, where do you think
knowledge comes from Dennis, it sure isn't from
annho...@aol.com wrote:
Hi all,
There was a post on this list about 3 - 4 wks ago from someone who gave 25
personal and family experiences with CS. At the bottom was a list of 6
things to avoid. One was Putting too much in an aquarium.
Obviously he found out the hard way. Maybe this person
tmtw...@aol.com wrote:
hi my name is teri and l used to be on this list a while back...but my
computer died and now have a new one...so here l am again...l have a gallon
of cs ordered from silverlightning...l use it for lots of things...l wish l
had the name of the guy l ordered it
A :. A :. wrote:
please don't fall for the structured water ploy.
every so often someone comes out with a spiel
about energized water and high energy states and added electrons blah
blah blah. it's all hooey.
yes, btw, water CAN be structured, but anything from sunlight to
magnetism will
wally world is slang for wal mart or
one of its clones. any old megastore should have them :-)
Dennis
---BeginMessage---
A :. A :. wrote:
i get my bulbs from wally world for about $5
each and they look just like regular bulbs.
Wally world? Isn't that the Amusement Park where they were
thanks, rev. ted :-)
but i still don't have a clue as
to what kinetic energy water is or its properties.
and i started a sentence with a preposition.
twice.;-D
Dennis
---BeginMessage---
In simplest terms Kinetic means energy in motion.
Blessings
Rev. Ted
A :. A :. wrote:
i tend to
Ted Windsor wrote:
I have tried to explain it, if you start with water that measures 0 and later
it
measures 7 to 11 PPM, what would you call it? That is I use an Hanna unit for
measuring
solid PPM in water.
Blessings
Rev. Ted
I would call it conductivity. It certainly is not an
Ivan Anderson wrote:
There is no reason that I can see, why a CS generator cannot generate
colloidal gold, it may just take a good while longer.
Could be, but I did try running gold with 30 VDC for a week and got no
tyndall.
Marshall
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion
Ivan Anderson wrote:
Did this get answered Del?
Any way...
The method works only if there is sufficient dissolved solids in the
water. The metallic ions are drawn towards to negative electrode, and
carry with them a layer of water which includes any free OH- (hydroxyl)
ions present. The
Hi Marshall,
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:07:55 -0500, Marshall Dudley
mdud...@execonn.com wrote:
There are many double blind studies of homeopathic
preparations being very effective (and hemeopathics are simply different
forms of structured water). I have done experiments using a $5,000 scanning
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:29:12 -0500 tosca...@ix.netcom.com writes:
This is certainly most interesting.
How realistic is it to make a counter-EMF device? Shielding is one
thing, but to defeat common 60Hz with something EM would be
incredible. I can't even fathom the equations or principle
to tell the truth, that sounds impossible.
but i been wrong before.
is there any verifiable data available on this stuff?
Dennis
---BeginMessage---
I was told of a test where identical fish were used to compare Grander /
Living Water to tap water. The tanks where sealed; the tap water fish
he claimed the wet cold sparking process would produce a colloidal gold
witha purple colour to it. it should be in the archives but i haven't
checked myself.
it was an offshoot of a discussion of CMO
that he was manufacturing if that's any help.
Dennis
---BeginMessage---
A :. A :. wrote:
once
In a message dated 10/30/00 11:20:55 AM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes:
I have searched and have been unable to find any way to measure gold.
Marshall
Marshall: Why wouldn't AA work, and, of course, fire assay works with even
minute quantities of gold. Roger
--
The silver-list is a
i know that different ELF and ULF frequencies can produce different
physiological effects, but does anyone know which frequency does what?
Dennis
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to:
i'll be darned :-)
i live and learn.
Dennis
---BeginMessage---
A :. A :. wrote:
please don't fall for the structured water ploy.
every so often someone comes out with a spiel
about energized water and high energy states and added electrons blah
blah blah. it's all hooey.
yes, btw, water
I am sure we could get some answers by examining these devices:
http://www.amazing1.com/ultra.htm
Though those produce more negative effects, it's a starting point.
There's mention of 40KHz, but isn't that within the range of conscious human
hearing anyhow?
Also I own an ultrasonic dog
Hi,
Been reading all the CG posts but still want to know where to get the gold
rods or whatever to use to make CG. Also, how much do they cost? What
karat is 999.9 percent pure gold? where do you get it? Thanks
Janine
garyjan...@msn.com
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion
Marshall:
What is the Hanna unit measuring if it isn't solid particles? The only thing in
the water is
Gold probes? The original water tested 0? For those of you who understand
technical stuff?
Please tell me what is this Sota unit producing? If it is not CS and CG, then
it must be just
the
My thanks to everyone who responded with helpful advice about treating cold
sores with CS. I will be trying all of those remedies and I'll report back
over time as to which ones prove effective for me.
FYI - I made up my first batch of CS this weekend using my two silver coins.
I suspended the
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:05:42 -0800 (PST), superflo...@webtv.net (A :.
A :.) wrote:
i know that different ELF and ULF frequencies can produce different
physiological effects, but does anyone know which frequency does what?
Yup. Someone does. :)
-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moyn (CDP,
Dean T. Miller wrote:
Hi Marshall,
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:07:55 -0500, Marshall Dudley
mdud...@execonn.com wrote:
There are many double blind studies of homeopathic
preparations being very effective (and hemeopathics are simply different
forms of structured water). I have done
rogalt...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 10/30/00 11:20:55 AM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes:
I have searched and have been unable to find any way to measure gold.
Marshall
Marshall: Why wouldn't AA work, and, of course, fire assay works with even
minute quantities of gold.
I realize this may be wandering out of the scope of this list, but nonetheless
I love the speculation we are generating here.
Not much info out there about ULF/ELF healing, but plenty about its
applications as weapons.
I once heard mentioned a Soviet Alpha-Beta Device that the US military had
Ted Windsor wrote:
Marshall:
What is the Hanna unit measuring if it isn't solid particles? The only thing
in the water is
Gold probes? The original water tested 0? For those of you who understand
technical stuff?
Please tell me what is this Sota unit producing? If it is not CS and CG,
When we first discovered therapeutic magnets, my husband made a cup of
coffee with some water that had sat in a glass mug on a 3280(?) gauss
round 1/2 in. thick ceramic magnet and drank it. He didn't sleep all
night and never has made another cup of it. After reading on this list
about
Henry Reed wrote:
When we first discovered therapeutic magnets, my husband made a cup of
coffee with some water that had sat in a glass mug on a 3280(?) gauss
round 1/2 in. thick ceramic magnet and drank it. He didn't sleep all
night and never has made another cup of it. After reading on
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:54:41 -0600, Lewis Ted (x5710)
ted.le...@arl.siemens.com wrote:
FYI - I made up my first batch of CS this weekend using my two silver coins.
Umm, what kind of silver coins?? Make absolutely sure they're .999
fine silver. Any other kind is an alloy of silver with metals
i used to sit speaker magnets under or beside
my CS while it was cooking on the
just in case theory. it seems i was doing
something right after all :-)
Dennis
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an
spose Someone could post 'em? :-)
i hear a couple of them are surefire
knee slappers if you enjoy bodily
function humor.
Dennis
---BeginMessage---
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:05:42 -0800 (PST), superflo...@webtv.net (A :.
A :.) wrote:
i know that different ELF and ULF frequencies can produce
Hi Russ;
The SOTA silver pulser uses a .1 a .22 and a 10 uF capacitor, one of each,
and a timer IC like the Jaguar Black Box. The 27 to 36 volts internally is
not a high-voltage device. I have the original Black Box schematic here
parts list and and the layout diagram.
NO the caps do not trigger
Sorry Dennis,
You are quite correct in the statement about sunlight and magnets having an
effect. So do turbulence, healers hands (similar to magnetic) and exposure
to more energetic water. The effects are reliable but not outstanding so
far. About half the world believes in energetic water. In
In a message dated 10/30/00 1:24:04 PM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes:
I am aware of a number of patents pending in which the strength of
medicines is
increase dramatically by exposure to strong magnetic fields. These came out
of
studies done at Vanderbilt University in Nashville TN. I
--- Marshall Dudley mdud...@execonn.com wrote:
A :. A :. wrote:
i always thought kinetic energy was just
'potential' energy.
Kenetic energy and potential energy are two
different forms of energy. Water behind a
dam is potential energy, water going over the dam,
and the electricity
I hadn't heard that one but it's just as reasonable as tossing a coin in the
milk.
I guess you cant turn blue by eating chunks that big...
- Original Message -
From: Ivan Anderson i...@win.co.nz
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 2:38 AM
Subject: Re: CSFriendly
There are companies that market magnets that potentiate the gas and are suppose
to boost hp. Don't know if they work.
Marshall
rogalt...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 10/30/00 1:24:04 PM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes:
I am aware of a number of patents pending in which the strength of
i'm a paid up member of the psionics list
and the other one you mentioned and am familiar with homeopathic
potencies.
my gripe with miracle water is it's all sizzle and no steak so far on
the big promise/small
show scale.
Dennis
---BeginMessage---
Sorry Dennis,
You are quite correct in the
The Kinetic water I am involved with, there is no man made energy used, (ie:
electrical energy) no magnets, it's all Natures energies.
blessings
Rev. Ted
rogalt...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 10/30/00 1:24:04 PM EST, mdud...@execonn.com writes:
I am aware of a number of patents
may i ask how it's made? and what it does precisely? and how?
if you rule out everything electromagnetic
and psionic that leaves chemical changes.
if you change the chemistry it's no longer water.
can i also inquire who did the fish test, with
supporting particulars?
regards,
Dennis
Hi Ted;
With your setup (you old cogger) turn off the juice when the current
reaches 4 ma.
If you don't have a DMMin the circuit you should have.
Ole bob
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail
Hi Dean,
Thanks for your concern. The coins I used were the U.S. minted Walking
Liberty 1 oz. fine silver coins. My understanding is that this is a pure
silver (.999) coin, but I was unable to verify that with the dealer. He
didn't really understand my question, nor could I understand his
Why does everything only work the way you were taught in school, you must
realize
by now most of the stuff you learned was a lie, we have made an energy device
which
energizes water, we have spent thousands of dollars perfecting this unit and you
would like me to tell you how to make it? The
A! Potentiation-now I can talk intelligently about it.
Seriously, I recall reading how the water of Niagara falling through
the earth's magnetic field caused electricity to form--don't remember
where though. Anyway, seems that other things happen to the water too.
That may be how the
Some more info to astound and confound,
From the KeelyNet list :
Ivan.
===
Hi Folks!
Was up late one night and happened to hit on Rick Andersens
page at;
http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/
so started looking around...have been there several
Hi Ted
if you're having a problem with herpes simplex (cold or fever sores)
build the herpes simplex zapper ..instructions at:
http://www.ioa.com/~dragonfly/herpes.html
should take care of them.
At 11:54 AM 10/30/2000 -0600, you wrote:
My thanks to everyone who responded with helpful advice
I dunno...
I swallowed a quarter and a dime once.
Nobody noticed any change...
Chuck
The beauty of a pun is in the Oy! of the beholder!
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:52:33 -0800, Duncan Crow duncanc...@yahoo.com wrote:
I hadn't heard that one but it's
Listers.
Someone gave a url like this: http//algeabar.com
It's actually http//www.algaebar.com
On a side issue, I've noticed several people making
the statement that silver is only effective in a
liquid medium.
Yet I heard (couldn't confirm) that the Chinese used
to advise holding or tying
Hi all;
I checked with the Russian Hydrologist...when making living and dead water
with stainless steel rods, 220v and a bridge rectifier they make a batch in
a plastic bucket and use half for disinfectant and half on the plants. The
disinfectant half is especially useful for getting rid of body
Hi everyone;
A question on purity...is 24K gold pure enough, do we go to pharmaceutical
or jewelry grade? I know that ingots will be but that's a whack of
dollars in Canada. Likewise with copper...are our common procedures making
very pure copper (house wire) or must we go to a special
The Biopet device is described in detail for making homeopathic remedies on
www.egroups.com/group/symphonichealth using this method.
By anecdotal accounts it works well and reliably, even copying thyroid
medication (you can't placebo thyroxin so well) in addition to remedies.
ciao
Duncan
--
There is a difference between surface, and volume. The reference to liquid
is for volume, not surface. The thing is that a silver particle must come
in physical contact with the pathogen to kill it. If you have an infection
on the surface or topically, then a silver coin or bandage can make
ok, so don't tell me how it's made :-)
tell me who did the fish test then maybe?
do you have any other antecdotal 'evidence'?
what else can it supposed to be good for?
i got my Doctor of Divinity degree from the
Universal Life Church, btw. y'all?
Dennis
---BeginMessage---
Why does everything
In a message dated 10/30/00 10:22:23 PM EST, duncanc...@yahoo.com writes:
Subj: Re: CScollodial gold
Date: 10/30/00 10:22:23 PM EST
From: duncanc...@yahoo.com (Duncan Crow)
Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com
To:silver-list@eskimo.com
Hi everyone;
A question on purity...is 24K
canadian maple leaf gold coins come in 1/10
ounce coins for about $30 and have no copper in them. don't buy american
coins. they have been stepped on with copper.
Dennis
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest
A :. A :. wrote:
canadian maple leaf gold coins come in 1/10
ounce coins for about $30 and have no copper in them. don't buy american
coins. they have been stepped on with copper.
Dennis
That can't be right. 1 oz. maple leafs are about $6.50.
Marshall
--
The silver-list is a moderated
Dennis,
Make your handle Twiddle, and you can be
Twiddle DeeDee!
Chuck
Doing strange things in the name of art...
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:18:57 -0800 (PST), superflo...@webtv.net (A :. A :.)
wrote:
i got my Doctor of Divinity degree from
To Chuck ( I think)
What is the Universal Life Church? I have never heard of it. But then I
don't live in the good ol'e U.S.A. (I presume that's where you are from.
Most people on the internet seem to be!
HI Ivan, good to hear you back again. I haven't heard back from Altered
States since I
Hi Duncan,
On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:51:14 -0800, Duncan Crow
duncanc...@yahoo.com wrote:
I checked with the Russian Hydrologist...when making living and dead water
with stainless steel rods, 220v and a bridge rectifier they make a batch in
a plastic bucket and use half for disinfectant and half on
Hi Tracy,
On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:54:41 +1300, Nick Grant nwgr...@inet.net.nz
wrote:
Question: has anyone got any RECENT documentation from medical sources that
confirm that CS does indeed do what we say it does. I know that someone
sent some material thru not so long ago, but some of the
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