What are they going to do, take down the odometer reading every year that
you register the Elec. car?
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 13:21
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam
thers to as
well, and electric vehicles don't do this at all.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:31
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at wor
ectric vehicles don't do this at all.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:31
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work". and
more id
--- Original Message -
From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 15:33
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work". and
more idea's
>
> As for license fees, they are fully registered same as any other
,
that is not bad at all. Get your self a decent vehicle, maintain it, and
don't push it, you save a lot, in energy and money.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 15:33
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydro
ork in.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 15:47
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work"
city that they work in.
Greg H.
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 15:47
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the s
Although you say it in a somewhat different way, I think we generally agree in
this matter. I also agree that we have a lot of background on this hydrogen but
I am also hard pressed to find a way to use this to our benefit so far as well.
There are some posts already that feel that it is not a
Bob,
I was very tempted to touch this before, but refrained from
sending that part. Since Keith started it, I will do it now.
The biofuel list is a real "Think Tank", it is hard to get closer
to this definition. The boys and girls that are participating are
big in their thought and minds.
If y
Robert Mills wrote:
>To all;
>
>Do not hold back on your opinions in these discussions. Just think
>back to some past date when someone told you something that you
>didn't know and you were so surprised that you commented; Boy, I
>would never have thought of that, what an idea!! Off we go with
Bob,
One thing is to close your mind to development, and completely other is to
(mis)use a technology for political and corporate reasons. Hydrogen have
been researched and used for around 100 years. We know a lot about hydrogen
and therefore we can do quite good assessment of its suitability
2003 4:59 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work".
robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Robert Mills wrote:
> The electrolysis of water
robert luis rabello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Robert Mills wrote:
> The electrolysis of water cannot be called a renewable resource simply
> because it is a process used to change a renewable resource called water and
> not within itself a renewable resource.
>
Oh brother, here we go
Robert Mills wrote:
> The electrolysis of water cannot be called a renewable resource simply
> because it is a process used to change a renewable resource called water and
> not within itself a renewable resource.
>
Oh brother, here we go!
Let's take some electric energy generated b
;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 14:10
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work".
> >
> To further complicate things, I cannot find anywhere whereby the molecule
"O" lives in nature without it's e
s.
Bob
Dr Alan Greenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What do you think of www.genesisworldenergy.com ?
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:36 PM
Subject
What do you think of www.genesisworldenergy.com ?
- Original Message -
From: "Robert Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam ar
Darryl McMahon wrote:
> Sorry to be late in on this, but I'm playing catch-up and could not resist
> the invitation in this post.
>
>
> I have tried to get more information on Stuart's claims. I am not completely
> clear
> on all the details yet, but my understanding so far is that they requi
Darryl McMahon wrote:
> Still late, but gaining.
>
> robert luis rabello wrote:
> >
> > The ugly secret of electric vehicles is that battery replacement is
> > roughly equivalent to the fuel cost of a comparable gasoline model
> > over a three or four year period of time. (This I d
An other part of my article,
Nuclear energy.
Before we get into a discussion and evaluation of nuclear
energy, I like to make my own position clear on this. I am
against nuclear power. Not because any technical reason,
but because I do not belive that any Nation can be trusted
regarding nuclear
This is quite interesting to say the least.
>Here is what you said:
>
>"...To make 10 kW of Hydrogen from renewable source like electrolysis of
>water,
>you need 9 kW of electricity"
Please define a renewable resource called "electrolysis of water". I am unable
to determine this as a renew
Well, I think there are two issues here.
1. First, I think you simply reversed numbers by accident. If I understand you
correctly (and I may not) you meant to convey that there was a 10% loss in
energy going from electricity to hydrogen, in the most optimistic electrolysis
process possible. Fi
MM,
So this is the only correct definition,
Power is kW(s) per second and energy is kWh per hour?
Anything else is absolutely wrong?
cannot energy be kWm per minute?
The only defined is power Watt/second, if we keep to Watt.
If I want to specify energy, I could do it in kWyear or any define
>>Second: Your figures are in power instead of energy. You have quoted kW
>>instead
>>of kWh.
>
>I have done a mathematically correct simplification. The time factor can
>and should
>be excluded, if it is the same. You will have a hard time with me, if you
>argue this.
Here is what you said:
MM,
Please
At 02:14 PM 6/30/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:04:54 +0200, you wrote:
>
> >
> >MM,
> >
> >The numbers are not wacky, but they are the best I could find. Most other
> >numbers show that it take more electricity than you get out.
>
>First: *All* such conversions, from
On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:04:54 +0200, you wrote:
>
>MM,
>
>The numbers are not wacky, but they are the best I could find. Most other
>numbers show that it take more electricity than you get out.
First: *All* such conversions, from electricity to any sort of liquid or gaseous
substance containing t
MM,
The numbers are not wacky, but they are the best I could find. Most other
numbers show that it take more electricity than you get out.
I am not saying that Hydrogen as such is a scam and that we could
not find it viable in the future. What I say is that it is at the moment used
as a diversi
>Hydrogen is like the fairy tales. To make 10 kW of Hydrogen from renewable
>source like electrolysis of water, you need 9 kW of electricity.
FWIW:
1. I think many environmentalists are making somewhat of a wrong call on
Hydrogen, seeing it as almost entirely bogus. I think it shows promise a
Still late, but gaining.
robert luis rabello wrote:
>
> The ugly secret of electric vehicles is that battery replacement is
> roughly equivalent to the fuel cost of a comparable gasoline model
> over a three or four year period of time. (This I discovered by
> comparing the batte
Sorry to be late in on this, but I'm playing catch-up and could not resist
the invitation in this post.
robert luis rabello wrote:
> Production rates at this power level are generally considered
> insufficient,
> which is why commercial electrolysis occurs above thermoneutral voltage.
I complemented the chapter "The Hydrogen hype, the scam artists at work"
with comments and some more that I wanted to say, here it is,
The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work".
As mentioned, it is around 80 years old technologies and have been used in
submarine technologies for a long tim
kirk wrote:
> look at magnesium-aluminum hydride. Much lighter and cheaper than
> iron-titanium. You could use a small iron-titanium to start the engine and
> run it a few minutes until the exhaust heat activated the Mg-Al.
>
> Kirk
>
Magnesium hydride holds about 6% of its weight in hydro
: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:16 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work".
Wow!!, thanks for the data. You really have done some research on this.
What appears to be the ultimate
Wow!!, thanks for the data. You really have done some research on this.
What appears to be the ultimate answer to the alternative energy game and the
clean air game is that of solar electric energy used at the instant of it's
conversion from sun energy to electric energy since there would be n
Robert Mills wrote:
> Robert;
> my question; which energy, hydrogen or electricity, (per therm or 100,000
> btu's or US gallon) would ultimately be the lowest energy cost for the
> operation of a motor vehicle on the roads as transportation using the numbers
> you previously used in your pos
Robert;
my question; which energy, hydrogen or electricity, (per therm or 100,000 btu's
or US gallon) would ultimately be the lowest energy cost for the operation of a
motor vehicle on the roads as transportation using the numbers you previously
used in your post?
Thanks !!
Bob
robert luis
Robert,
You are using the theoretical possibility when you talk about 1/3,
but the best practical results are still 10% gain. You cannot overcome
all the losses in the process. If you look at reality, the possible
improvements above 10-15% are small.
As storage and energy converter, Hydrogen co
gt;To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work".
>
>
>Here is some more thought provoking parts in my article "the scam
>artists
>at work"
>
>The Hydrogen hype, "
Martin Klingensmith wrote:
> Hakan I think you have it written reverse - 10kWh of electricity to
> produce 9kWh of hydrogen. [it's always going to be lower than the amount
> put in]
>
> Martin Klingensmith
> nnytech.net
> infoarchive.net
Below thermoneutral voltage, electrolysis is as much
2003 1:09 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work".
Here is some more thought provoking parts in my article "the scam
artists
at work"
The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work&qu
Here is some more thought provoking parts in my article "the scam artists
at work"
The Hydrogen hype, "the scam artists at work".
As mentioned, it is around 80 years old technologies and have been used in
submarine technologies for a long time. It is often talked about as the
energy solution
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