Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
Hi, On 05/01/2015 05:07 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: I don't think that is something that really advances the quality in OSM, and I would encourage you to grab a notepad and venture outside to do some mapping. That way you wouldn't be scripting world-wide cleanup operations but who knows, you might actually add real value to OSM. I would still say that to anyone who suggests some sort of world wide cleanup but I recognize that it was a bit silly saying it to you (Andrew) - given that you are probably the human being with the most survey-based edits in OSM. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 1 May 2015, at 16:56, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: If we want to unify a kind of chain store, I think we should leave the name tag, and focus on other tags. Some examples are ref:vatin=* for the vat id of the store, brand:wikidata=* for the wikidata id of the brand owner, website=* for the central website, or we can find a new better tag that should be the same with all certain chain stores. Names should be left to the local mapper. Janko When I add the website to an object in OSM, I try to add a link to the specific branch in the branch finder rather than the home page, thus would need to be careful with the matching, as exact matching won’t work. Also need to cater for when one person uses https url, and another uses http for example. Shaun___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 02/05/15 18:01, Colin Smale wrote: A bit of a meta-discussion I wonder why this topic is not going the same way as the debate on talk-gb last November-December in which it was proposed to tidy up and normalise various spelling variants? There was a lot of vehement opposition to any automated corrections as many chains are inconsistent with their own orthography and only on-the-ground mappers would be able to tell whether or not there is an apostrophe present in the signage at this particular branch (etc. etc., you get this idea). Possibly because the various points of view were well articulated then and many of them (chains don't rebrand instantly and consistently, fixing misspellings gives a false impression of quality - or not) have already been raised here in some form - everyone piling in with me too! posts doesn't help the list become more navigable. Cheers, Andy ... and apologies for a largely content-free meta-post :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 02/05/2015 02:18, Andrew MacKinnon wrote: The same is true with an amenity=restaurant called Subway, since it should be amenity=fast_food and any Subway that is not the well known chain would almost certainly be sued by the well known chain and forced to changed its name. I wouldn't be so sure here. As an example, there's a bakery chain in the UK called Greggs. They're mostly tagged shop=bakery (with a few Subway-esque amenity=fast_food / cuisine=sandwich as well). Occasionally shops like this get wrongly tagged, sometimes as amenity=cafe, and there's always a temptation to just fix them. However, guess what? Yesterday I accidentally walked past a genuine Greggs amenity=cafe: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3490805096 It seems to share staff with the neighbouring bakery, but is entirely separate inside. A better approach to tidying up shops is the one that Math1985 has been using in the UK - add a note, and get some local feedback to separate the genuine errors from the unexpected ones: http://www.openstreetmap.org/note/303935 A Subway _restaurant_ is clearly a bit of a stretch, but not entirely impossible. I'd definitely add notes rather than remotely fixing these. Alternatively, perhaps contact the previous mapper? Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
I wouldn't be so sure here. As an example, there's a bakery chain in the UK called Greggs. They're mostly tagged shop=bakery (with a few Subway-esque amenity=fast_food / cuisine=sandwich as well). Occasionally shops like this get wrongly tagged, sometimes as amenity=cafe, and there's always a temptation to just fix them. However, guess what? Yesterday I accidentally walked past a genuine Greggs amenity=cafe: There are too many of these errors (things like McDonalds without an apostrophe and amenity=fast_food incorrectly tagged amenity=restaurant) to check them all individually. I am only interested in fixing the big chains here and will leave things I am not familiar with alone. I live in Canada, and we have all the big worldwide chains (McDonald's, Subway, KFC, Walmart) and some big local chains (Tim Hortons, Loblaws, Shoppers Drug Mart, Sobeys, Rexall etc.) With many of the chains most of the stores look pretty similar from an air photo and it is easy to identify them that way. Also the increasing popularity of Mapillary makes it easier to check these in areas where Mapillary is available. If you find a weird situation like this I would strongly recommend putting a note tag on it. If I don't mistakenly correct the POI then someone else might do it. Usually when I find this sort of situation it is in a different country from the country where the chain has its stores, and some independent store has the same name as the chain. Occasionally there might be some store called Subway that doesn't sell sandwiches that is legal because the Subway trademark only covers fast food restaurants, or something like that. Any Subway or McDonald's store that isn't owned by the big chains in one of the countries where those chains operate would almost certainly be sued for trademark infringement and shut down. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
A bit of a meta-discussion I wonder why this topic is not going the same way as the debate on talk-gb last November-December in which it was proposed to tidy up and normalise various spelling variants? There was a lot of vehement opposition to any automated corrections as many chains are inconsistent with their own orthography and only on-the-ground mappers would be able to tell whether or not there is an apostrophe present in the signage at this particular branch (etc. etc., you get this idea). Discussion starts here: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2014-November/016718.html //colin On 2015-05-02 18:14, Andrew MacKinnon wrote: I wouldn't be so sure here. As an example, there's a bakery chain in the UK called Greggs. They're mostly tagged shop=bakery (with a few Subway-esque amenity=fast_food / cuisine=sandwich as well). Occasionally shops like this get wrongly tagged, sometimes as amenity=cafe, and there's always a temptation to just fix them. However, guess what? Yesterday I accidentally walked past a genuine Greggs amenity=cafe: There are too many of these errors (things like McDonalds without an apostrophe and amenity=fast_food incorrectly tagged amenity=restaurant) to check them all individually. I am only interested in fixing the big chains here and will leave things I am not familiar with alone. I live in Canada, and we have all the big worldwide chains (McDonald's, Subway, KFC, Walmart) and some big local chains (Tim Hortons, Loblaws, Shoppers Drug Mart, Sobeys, Rexall etc.) With many of the chains most of the stores look pretty similar from an air photo and it is easy to identify them that way. Also the increasing popularity of Mapillary makes it easier to check these in areas where Mapillary is available. If you find a weird situation like this I would strongly recommend putting a note tag on it. If I don't mistakenly correct the POI then someone else might do it. Usually when I find this sort of situation it is in a different country from the country where the chain has its stores, and some independent store has the same name as the chain. Occasionally there might be some store called Subway that doesn't sell sandwiches that is legal because the Subway trademark only covers fast food restaurants, or something like that. Any Subway or McDonald's store that isn't owned by the big chains in one of the countries where those chains operate would almost certainly be sued for trademark infringement and shut down. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 2 May 2015 at 02:18, Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.com wrote: If a store changes name a mechanical edit does not make sense because usually new signs get put up gradually. For instance Domino's Pizza changed its name to Domino's and is running TV ads promoting this, but there are still old signs that say Domino's Pizza I suppose it depends whether we want to map what (sometimes incorrect) store signs say, or what the stores actually are. I favour the latter, but if you want the former, I have a list defunct shops whose signs are still visible, which you can add Another issue to consider is that either method will incude some errors. Which will include fewest, and which will inconvenience our users less? How long will it take for all our entries for Domino's to be manually updated, even after the signs are changed? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: A bit of a meta-discussion I wonder why this topic is not going the same way as the debate on talk-gb last November-December in which it was proposed to tidy up and normalise various spelling variants? There was a lot of vehement opposition to any automated corrections as many chains are inconsistent with their own orthography and only on-the-ground mappers would be able to tell whether or not there is an apostrophe present in the signage at this particular branch (etc. etc., you get this idea). There are some chains that are very consistent and there are others that are inconsistent and haven't bothered to change old signage. At least in Canada I am aware of which ones these are. I am 99% confident that Tim Hortons never has an apostrophe and McDonald's always has an apostrophe, the dozens/hundreds of stores in the Greater Toronto Area are all consistent. Also amenity=restaurant with Subway, McDonald's, KFC, etc. is wrong because amenity=restaurant means a sit down restaurant where you pay after eating. The pages on the wiki I am working on creating are useful for telling which chain stores are always consistent and which have several different variations. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
Hi, On 05/02/2015 10:40 PM, Andrew MacKinnon wrote: This is due to weirdness in trademark laws where sometimes companies in different categories are allowed to use the same trademark - e.g. Apple Inc. and Apple Records. Also, by far not every chain will have a global trademark (or the clout to actually police it). If there's a Starbuck's cafe in Burma, maybe it is indeed a blatant rip-off run by a cousin of the prime minister, and maybe it is really called Starbuck's. I'm still convinced that fixing these low hangig fruit is an excellent task for a beginning mapper in an area (you may not dare to draw a landuse but you will be able to summon the courage of fixing an obvious spelling mistake), and in turn it will say something about how well kept an area is in OSM. You will never be able to make the map good in an area from your desk thousands of miles away. Doing a chain store cleanup from that distance is just window dressing - the quality of the map will not be different, at best you'll make it appear different. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
Hi, On 05/02/2015 07:58 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: I suppose it depends whether we want to map what (sometimes incorrect) store signs say, or what the stores actually are. Definitely we want to map what's on the ground. We map mis-spellings in road signs, too. I favour the latter, but if you want the former, I have a list defunct shops whose signs are still visible, which you can add I don't know about the general rules about tagging defunct shops but if there is a tag for a defunct shop then the name tag should certainly bear the name on the still visible sign; if only as a landmark. Another issue to consider is that either method will incude some errors. Which will include fewest, and which will inconvenience our users less? How long will it take for all our entries for Domino's to be manually updated, even after the signs are changed? We collect observations. The fact that there is a relationship between all pizza places with a red-and-blue Domino's sign and what kind of relationship there is - are they all owned by the same company, are they a franchise, and if they are a franchise, what contractual freedoms in naming/signage are given to the franchisee in the contract - is not easily observable and therefore should not inform OSM mapping. There is no way for the mapper on the ground to know that the name on the building should be something else. I know you have a Wikidata background and things may be different in Wikidata; in Wikidata, you might be interested to research and record the details of the contractual relationship between a Domino's store and whatever the Domino HQ is, but in OSM this is very low on our list, if it is on our list at all. We see a place that sells pizzas and the place has a sign with their name on it, and that's what we map. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 2 May 2015 at 22:28, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I know you have a Wikidata background and things may be different in Wikidata I've been editing OSM longer than Wikidata has existed. Even had I not, I don't think your attempt to analyse my background has any place on this list. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 2 May 2015 at 23:18, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 2 May 2015 at 22:28, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I know you have a Wikidata background and things may be different in Wikidata I've been editing OSM longer than Wikidata has existed. Even had I not, I don't think your attempt to analyse my background has any place on this list. Frederik, Andy started out as a valve in ENIAC. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
While you're at it, please consider adding brand:wikidata=Q38076 for McDonald's you verify. Polyglot 2015-05-03 0:28 GMT+02:00 pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com: On 2 May 2015 at 23:18, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 2 May 2015 at 22:28, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I know you have a Wikidata background and things may be different in Wikidata I've been editing OSM longer than Wikidata has existed. Even had I not, I don't think your attempt to analyse my background has any place on this list. Frederik, Andy started out as a valve in ENIAC. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
I found a few McDonald's that are not what you think they are. In OSM there is a McDonald's confectionery shop in Mexico, a McDonald's supermarket in Missouri, and a McDonald's kitchen store in New Hampshire that are not fast food restaurants. Looks like you need to be careful when fixing these. This is due to weirdness in trademark laws where sometimes companies in different categories are allowed to use the same trademark - e.g. Apple Inc. and Apple Records. I am pretty confident that any fast food/restaurant that is called McDonald's is what you think it is though. Most of the time (at least with suburban locations) you can tell that it is a McDonald's from the aerial imagery. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
It is also an easy fallacy to think that if the marketing people of some chain decide to spell their name differently, we could or should simply replace all names to what they should be - no we don't, we only change the name when the store changes its lettering. Another issue. If a store changes name a mechanical edit does not make sense because usually new signs get put up gradually. For instance Domino's Pizza changed its name to Domino's and is running TV ads promoting this, but there are still old signs that say Domino's Pizza. The same thing applies if a chain store goes out of business because usually not all stores close at the same time and there may still be some stores open. I am concerned with stores that are wrong. McDonalds and Tim Horton's are wrong as far as I know. The same is true with an amenity=restaurant called Subway, since it should be amenity=fast_food and any Subway that is not the well known chain would almost certainly be sued by the well known chain and forced to changed its name. On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: On 5/1/2015 11:07 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: That's a very computer person approach to take. In fact, the McDonald's issue has already been tried by someone in the past with an undiscussed mechanical edit, promptly falsifying a few non-chain non-fastfood places that*really* were called McDonalds just as you mention. The proposed edit doesn't seem to match the previous mass Search/Replace edit. It should also be possible to confirm each location against the McDonalds store locator or a store list from McDonalds. It is also an easy fallacy to think that if the marketing people of some chain decide to spell their name differently, we could or should simply replace all names to what they should be - no we don't, we only change the name when the store changes its lettering. I as a local mapper would never notice such a change in 100 years of going back to audit POIs. A remote mapper change would correct this properly if checked against corporate data, complete with proper tagging for old_name - this would assist searches for the new name. The argument is strongly *for* informed, remote changes, assuming that the data in OSM is to be of some use to data consumers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
I can confirm that McDonald's in Quebec, Canada have an apostrophe from a Mapillary image of one in Gatineau, QC: http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/CYy8HTA4MeQouhZ6929gJw. Reason being that an apostrophe is English but it is allowed in Quebec (at least nowadays) under French language laws. I am aware that McDonald's in non-Latin scripts is different but I assume that McDonald's has an apostrophe everywhere else. (Is there a country where McDonalds is actually correct?) If someone manages to get properly licensed data on store locations from a large company, it might be useful to look at the data integration functionality at http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/. Simply importing data is a bad idea because there already are lots of existing POIs in OSM (there are 14039 objects with name=McDonald's in OSM and Wikipedia says there are about 35000 McDonald's restaurants in the world, so OSM has slightly less than 50% of them), and because imported data is often poor quality. On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 5:52 PM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 1 May 2015 at 18:30, Imre Samu pella.s...@gmail.com wrote: .. McDonald's problem... Please don't forget the true McDonald's problem! It is a content encoding hell. and very hard to detect by any ordinary field mappers. #1. name=McDonald’s( count=126 ) U+2019 ’ e2 80 99 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald%E2%80%99s http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/97c #2. name=McDonald´s( count=40 ) U+00B4 ´ c2 b4 ACUTE ACCENT http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald%C2%B4s http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/97e #3. name=McDonald's ( count=14039) U+0027 ' 27 APOSTROPHE http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald's Regards, Imre Any hope of tracing the sources of #1 and #2 ? Such as Apple users ? and which editor was used? -- Mike. @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via the area's premier website - currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets TCs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Andrew, That's a very computer person approach to take. In fact, the McDonald's issue has already been tried by someone in the past with an undiscussed mechanical edit, promptly falsifying a few non-chain non-fastfood places that *really* were called McDonalds just as you mention. I am aware of this problem, though usually trademark laws would make it illegal to operate such a store. Various weird exceptions might exist, such as a McDonalds that existed before the well-known McDonald's fast food restaurant existed, or something called McDonalds that is not a fast food restaurant. There is a bus stop in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada called McDonalds in front of a McDonald's fast food restaurant which I am told is correct because the bus stop name was accidentally misspelled by the city and never corrected. Usually this is only a problem for a chain that only operates in certain countries, and there are unrelated stores in other countries. I would strongly recommend putting a note on any POI that has the name of a common fast restaurant like McDonald's, Subway, KFC, etc. that isn't actually what you think it is. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
If we want to unify a kind of chain store, I think we should leave the name tag, and focus on other tags. Some examples are ref:vatin=* for the vat id of the store, brand:wikidata=* for the wikidata id of the brand owner, website=* for the central website, or we can find a new better tag that should be the same with all certain chain stores. Names should be left to the local mapper. Janko pet, 1. svi 2015. 17:39 pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com je napisao: On 1 May 2015 at 16:07, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Andrew, On 05/01/2015 12:04 AM, Andrew MacKinnon wrote: I am trying to figure out a way of cleaning up incorrect chain store data in OSM. For example there are 1422 instances of McDonalds in OSM (should be McDonald's) and 203 instances of Tim Horton's (should be Tim Hortons). That's a very computer person approach to take. In fact, the McDonald's issue has already been tried by someone in the past with an undiscussed mechanical edit, promptly falsifying a few non-chain non-fastfood places that *really* were called McDonalds just as you mention. I don't think that is something that really advances the quality in OSM, and I would encourage you to grab a notepad and venture outside to do some mapping. That way you wouldn't be scripting world-wide cleanup operations but who knows, you might actually add real value to OSM. Leave the mis-spelled McDonalds to those who map in the area. Maybe it encourages them. I'd go for the mechanical edit. Actually, I'd go for a central single point of maintenance for store names - so we change them all with one change. Doing manual edits, how long does it take OSM to reflect the name change globally ? It's my guess that this would be less accurate than changing them all in one move. The change should of course be name -- old_name and then a new name applied. I'm also in favour of being ahead of the game - gives a better impression that the map's well up to date. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 1 May 2015 at 16:07, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Andrew, On 05/01/2015 12:04 AM, Andrew MacKinnon wrote: I am trying to figure out a way of cleaning up incorrect chain store data in OSM. For example there are 1422 instances of McDonalds in OSM (should be McDonald's) and 203 instances of Tim Horton's (should be Tim Hortons). That's a very computer person approach to take. In fact, the McDonald's issue has already been tried by someone in the past with an undiscussed mechanical edit, promptly falsifying a few non-chain non-fastfood places that *really* were called McDonalds just as you mention. I don't think that is something that really advances the quality in OSM, and I would encourage you to grab a notepad and venture outside to do some mapping. That way you wouldn't be scripting world-wide cleanup operations but who knows, you might actually add real value to OSM. Leave the mis-spelled McDonalds to those who map in the area. Maybe it encourages them. I'd go for the mechanical edit. Actually, I'd go for a central single point of maintenance for store names - so we change them all with one change. Doing manual edits, how long does it take OSM to reflect the name change globally ? It's my guess that this would be less accurate than changing them all in one move. The change should of course be name -- old_name and then a new name applied. I'm also in favour of being ahead of the game - gives a better impression that the map's well up to date. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
Andrew, On 05/01/2015 12:04 AM, Andrew MacKinnon wrote: I am trying to figure out a way of cleaning up incorrect chain store data in OSM. For example there are 1422 instances of McDonalds in OSM (should be McDonald's) and 203 instances of Tim Horton's (should be Tim Hortons). That's a very computer person approach to take. In fact, the McDonald's issue has already been tried by someone in the past with an undiscussed mechanical edit, promptly falsifying a few non-chain non-fastfood places that *really* were called McDonalds just as you mention. It is also an easy fallacy to think that if the marketing people of some chain decide to spell their name differently, we could or should simply replace all names to what they should be - no we don't, we only change the name when the store changes its lettering. We're not a parrot for the marketing department, we observe what's on the ground. OSM editing is usually holistic - you work on many aspects of the map in an area. If the map has many edits by different people in an area then I can reasonably assume that it has a certain minimum quality because these people are on the ground fixing things. If you remote-mass-fix McDonald's, or worse, if you remote-mass-fix all chain stores on an ongoing basis, you create a false impression of activity in an area when in fact all you do is scribble the latest business decision of some corporate marketing department all over OSM. I don't think that is something that really advances the quality in OSM, and I would encourage you to grab a notepad and venture outside to do some mapping. That way you wouldn't be scripting world-wide cleanup operations but who knows, you might actually add real value to OSM. Leave the mis-spelled McDonalds to those who map in the area. Maybe it encourages them. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 5/1/2015 11:07 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: That's a very computer person approach to take. In fact, the McDonald's issue has already been tried by someone in the past with an undiscussed mechanical edit, promptly falsifying a few non-chain non-fastfood places that*really* were called McDonalds just as you mention. The proposed edit doesn't seem to match the previous mass Search/Replace edit. It should also be possible to confirm each location against the McDonalds store locator or a store list from McDonalds. It is also an easy fallacy to think that if the marketing people of some chain decide to spell their name differently, we could or should simply replace all names to what they should be - no we don't, we only change the name when the store changes its lettering. I as a local mapper would never notice such a change in 100 years of going back to audit POIs. A remote mapper change would correct this properly if checked against corporate data, complete with proper tagging for old_name - this would assist searches for the new name. The argument is strongly *for* informed, remote changes, assuming that the data in OSM is to be of some use to data consumers. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 6:44 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: I think eventually chains will see the light, and publish their locations in an open format compatible manner. At that point a quick cross check with OSM would clear up most of the issues. I think this depends on the chain and how much they care about this. I believe there was a previous import of Lowe's locations, and this data was *woefully* inaccurate. At least in Oklahoma, these often ended up well into the close but no cigar territory, often being blocks away and in nonsensical spots kinda-sorta close, but not close enough to get accurate routing. On the other hand, there was a pretty nicely detailed import of Love's truck stops a while back that included a fair amount of detail, for which the only issue I take with it is that it mistagged most as caravan sites instead of service plazas. The import style I've used ignores the store's geometry or position after the first import. In other words, we can trust the store's store finder to have reasonably accurate information about opening hours and which store locations are currently open for business. Any the additional imports copy over opening_hours type stuff, but leave the OSM geometry alone. If the chain lists a location as 'closed', that generates note to a local mapper. -- Armchair mapping of chain stores faces another problem: while some chains have iconic buildings, on occasion they sell out. Thus a mom pop restaurant in a iHop shell, or an old style Taco Bell that's now a pizza joint. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
.. McDonald's problem... Please don't forget the true McDonald's problem! It is a content encoding hell. and very hard to detect by any ordinary field mappers. #1. name=McDonald’s( count=126 ) U+2019 ’ e2 80 99 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald%E2%80%99s http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/97c #2. name=McDonald´s( count=40 ) U+00B4 ´ c2 b4 ACUTE ACCENT http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald%C2%B4s http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/97e #3. name=McDonald's ( count=14039) U+0027 ' 27 APOSTROPHE http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald's Regards, Imre ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On Friday 01 May 2015, Andrew MacKinnon wrote: I have created pages on the OSM wiki called http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chain_Store_Cleanup and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chain_Store_Directory. Ideally I would like to create wiki pages for every large chain of stores in the world that is similar to Map Features, with recommended ways of tagging chain stores. A lot of new OSM users get this wrong and create incorrect data, and there wasn't anything on the wiki telling users that McDonalds or Tim Horton's is incorrect. [...] Actually when you want to tag what chain a certain store belongs to the proper tag is brand=* - not for all chains the stores have a uniform name and even if this is the case the name also often varies with the language internationally. As Frederik said, the name tag should be what's on the sign on the store and that should not be changed to something else just because it happens to be identical to a common misspelling of a certain brand name. Both maintining a list of tagged brands and making mechanical edits in case of brand name changes or widespread typos make sense for brand tags IMO but not for name. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
2015-05-01 13:36 GMT+02:00 Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com: I think eventually chains will see the light, and publish their locations in an open format compatible manner. At that point a quick cross check with OSM would clear up most of the issues. Agree. Has anyone actually asked the retail chains? That's a good question Rob. 'Seeing the light' possibly means maintaining your own platform/apps as a business. I did ask McDonald's back in 2012, I got the following reply: We put focus on optimizing this McDonald's app and want to keep the management of the associated database as efficiently as possible. Keeping databases for others makes that ambition tricky. With the McDonald's app we also communicate information about McDonald's products, actions, nutrition values, different locations and opening times of the restaurants and the McDrives. Also, restaurant renovations and therefore temporary adjusted opening hours are regularly incorporated into an update. For the above reasons, we will not consent to the inclusion of McDonald's restaurants in Openstreetmap. Of course I was disappointed, because I still believe OSM can be the best platform. On the other hand, McDonald's has a point. Breaking the answer down: 1) It's not efficient trying to maintain more than one database 2) that single database serves more purposes than just geocoding 3) Other databases do not have the same quality. So, how does that compare to one of the better POI databases, Google Maps? Having a quick look at GM shows that McDonald's despite copyright allows GM to copy opening hours into the GM database. But maybe they have an arrangement to copy (changing) opening hours on the fly in order to prevent dissatified customers standing in front of a closed door. Since McDonald's does have an incentive to maintain their own database (customer focus), quality of McDonald's data in OSM will always be lower. For me it means that I do map the McDonald's POI's based on ground thruth along with the url to the McDonald's website, but not the opening hours. Reaason for that is that I often see them from the road, but don't visit them daily to have a look at the opening hours. I'm looking forward to other experiences, I sure hope that I'm not the only mapper who has had contact with McDonald's Cheers, Johan I haven't because I don't want to suggest that we will do anything with the data until I know we have the right tools in place to match entries in their database and in OSM. I'm sure it's an easy task but I don't know how to do that. I'd also like to see community support in place so that we can merge in some of their attributes (phone number, opening hours, etc). This could be a bigger challenge! Regards, Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Johan C osm...@gmail.com wrote: That's a good question Rob. 'Seeing the light' possibly means maintaining your own platform/apps as a business. I did ask McDonald's back in 2012, I got the following reply: We put focus on optimizing this McDonald's app and want to keep the management of the associated database as efficiently as possible. Keeping databases for others makes that ambition tricky. With the McDonald's app we also communicate information about McDonald's products, actions, nutrition values, different locations and opening times of the restaurants and the McDrives. Also, restaurant renovations and therefore temporary adjusted opening hours are regularly incorporated into an update. For the above reasons, we will not consent to the inclusion of McDonald's restaurants in Openstreetmap. They also want the eyeballs on their website, not ours. I think they understood the request well. Perhaps the right approach is to ask for limited access to specific fields. The position of the restaurant showing up a a benefit to McD stockholders. The opening hours might be seen as competition for eyeballs. Beyond that it's unclear if querying for existence is a violation of any sort. In other words if I ping https://ajax.bigchainstore.com?storeid=2323format=json and it comes up empty, I learned something. But did I also violate their terms of service? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 1 May 2015 at 20:26, Johan C osm...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-05-01 13:36 GMT+02:00 Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com: I think eventually chains will see the light, and publish their locations in an open format compatible manner. At that point a quick cross check with OSM would clear up most of the issues. Agree. Has anyone actually asked the retail chains? That's a good question Rob. 'Seeing the light' possibly means maintaining your own platform/apps as a business. I did ask McDonald's back in 2012, I got the following reply: We put focus on optimizing this McDonald's app and want to keep the management of the associated database as efficiently as possible. Keeping databases for others makes that ambition tricky. With the McDonald's app we also communicate information about McDonald's products, actions, nutrition values, different locations and opening times of the restaurants and the McDrives. Also, restaurant renovations and therefore temporary adjusted opening hours are regularly incorporated into an update. For the above reasons, we will not consent to the inclusion of McDonald's restaurants in Openstreetmap. Of course I was disappointed, because I still believe OSM can be the best platform. On the other hand, McDonald's has a point. Breaking the answer down: 1) It's not efficient trying to maintain more than one database 2) that single database serves more purposes than just geocoding 3) Other databases do not have the same quality. Glad to hear that you have had a go at contacting one of these big chains. Their response is disappointing but I think we need to be looking at some potential solutions and better explaining the benefits of being on OpenStreetMap to them. Tackling the benefits of being in OSM first. I would point out that because OpenStreetMap provides a rich database of geographic features there are many apps that use OpenStreetMap's data. For example Maps.Me uses OSM in it's SatNav style app for iOS and Android. Their app also displays clickable points of interest including fast food outlets. Right now OpenStreetMap includes some McDonald's stores (as contributed by our community) but may be missing some. If McDonald's was to provide locations of all stores then we could update our map data and as such all apps that use our data would pick up these additional stores when they next update. As for tackling some of their concerns then first the opening hours concern. We could offer to link to their website for each store via opening_hours:url=http://bigchainstore.com?storeid=12345 . As for keeping the database up to date this is where we would benefit from more conflation tools. For example it would be great if we had a tool that compares BigChainStores data dump month 1 against BigChainStores data dump month 2 (should be easier as most entries will be the same). We would also want a tool that compares BigChainStores data dump against what's already in OSM. Currently there is no user firendly tool to do this (you end up back in traditional GIS solutions which tend to go over my head). I think we can get there but we'd need someone to help in regards to the comparison tools. Best, Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Imre Samu pella.s...@gmail.com wrote: .. McDonald's problem... Please don't forget the true McDonald's problem! It is a content encoding hell. and very hard to detect by any ordinary field mappers. #1. name=McDonald’s( count=126 ) U+2019 ’ e2 80 99 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald%E2%80%99s http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/97c #2. name=McDonald´s( count=40 ) U+00B4 ´ c2 b4 ACUTE ACCENT http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald%C2%B4s http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/97e #3. name=McDonald's ( count=14039) U+0027 ' 27 APOSTROPHE http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald's I'd go with Option 3, for two reasons. It's actually an apostrophe, so it's grammatically correct (hey, I try), and it's the most common. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
When it comes to McDonald's, at least in the USA and Canada, they (when they are stand-alone stores) are extremely easy to verify via Bing Imagery since they almost always use the same design for the buildings. It also helps when the sun was just right when the imagery was taken that the McDonald's logo casts a shadow on the ground from their tall sign (if they have one). So, you might be able to get away with just checking the imagery for the misspelled ones in the USA/Canada without having to rely on doing anything mechanical. And for the ones you can't verify, you could just add a note for them to be field checked if the building design doesn't match any of the normal designs, or is inside a gas station/WalMart and can't be verified for sure since those locations can/do change often sometimes to another brand. -James ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 6:44 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: I think eventually chains will see the light, and publish their locations in an open format compatible manner. At that point a quick cross check with OSM would clear up most of the issues. I think this depends on the chain and how much they care about this. I believe there was a previous import of Lowe's locations, and this data was *woefully* inaccurate. At least in Oklahoma, these often ended up well into the close but no cigar territory, often being blocks away and in nonsensical spots kinda-sorta close, but not close enough to get accurate routing. On the other hand, there was a pretty nicely detailed import of Love's truck stops a while back that included a fair amount of detail, for which the only issue I take with it is that it mistagged most as caravan sites instead of service plazas. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
Approaching bigchains.com and asking them stupid questions is only going to downgrade the quality of OSM in their eyes. Consequently, it'd be better for OSM not to contact them - unless you can offer them '*something*'. Google (maps) is a business - so has a significant advantage. As for variable data like opening hours, phone number etc. (even postal address is no use to them) their building needs to appear on the map with a one-click link to the outlet's website that shows phone number and opening hours. Feel free to go back to McD when you can offer them a flashing 'neon' building on the map and when the building is 'dim' replace it with their logo M. You just need to figure out what you'd charge them for this advertising. If you don't charge them they'll think it's a pointless gimmick and show no interest. On 1 May 2015 at 21:44, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 May 2015 at 20:26, Johan C osm...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-05-01 13:36 GMT+02:00 Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com: I think eventually chains will see the light, and publish their locations in an open format compatible manner. At that point a quick cross check with OSM would clear up most of the issues. Agree. Has anyone actually asked the retail chains? That's a good question Rob. 'Seeing the light' possibly means maintaining your own platform/apps as a business. I did ask McDonald's back in 2012, I got the following reply: We put focus on optimizing this McDonald's app and want to keep the management of the associated database as efficiently as possible. Keeping databases for others makes that ambition tricky. With the McDonald's app we also communicate information about McDonald's products, actions, nutrition values, different locations and opening times of the restaurants and the McDrives. Also, restaurant renovations and therefore temporary adjusted opening hours are regularly incorporated into an update. For the above reasons, we will not consent to the inclusion of McDonald's restaurants in Openstreetmap. Of course I was disappointed, because I still believe OSM can be the best platform. On the other hand, McDonald's has a point. Breaking the answer down: 1) It's not efficient trying to maintain more than one database 2) that single database serves more purposes than just geocoding 3) Other databases do not have the same quality. Glad to hear that you have had a go at contacting one of these big chains. Their response is disappointing but I think we need to be looking at some potential solutions and better explaining the benefits of being on OpenStreetMap to them. Tackling the benefits of being in OSM first. I would point out that because OpenStreetMap provides a rich database of geographic features there are many apps that use OpenStreetMap's data. For example Maps.Me uses OSM in it's SatNav style app for iOS and Android. Their app also displays clickable points of interest including fast food outlets. Right now OpenStreetMap includes some McDonald's stores (as contributed by our community) but may be missing some. If McDonald's was to provide locations of all stores then we could update our map data and as such all apps that use our data would pick up these additional stores when they next update. As for tackling some of their concerns then first the opening hours concern. We could offer to link to their website for each store via opening_hours:url=http://bigchainstore.com?storeid=12345 . As for keeping the database up to date this is where we would benefit from more conflation tools. For example it would be great if we had a tool that compares BigChainStores data dump month 1 against BigChainStores data dump month 2 (should be easier as most entries will be the same). We would also want a tool that compares BigChainStores data dump against what's already in OSM. Currently there is no user firendly tool to do this (you end up back in traditional GIS solutions which tend to go over my head). I think we can get there but we'd need someone to help in regards to the comparison tools. Best, Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On 1 May 2015 at 18:30, Imre Samu pella.s...@gmail.com wrote: .. McDonald's problem... Please don't forget the true McDonald's problem! It is a content encoding hell. and very hard to detect by any ordinary field mappers. #1. name=McDonald’s( count=126 ) U+2019 ’ e2 80 99 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald%E2%80%99s http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/97c #2. name=McDonald´s( count=40 ) U+00B4 ´ c2 b4 ACUTE ACCENT http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald%C2%B4s http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/97e #3. name=McDonald's ( count=14039) U+0027 ' 27 APOSTROPHE http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/name=McDonald's Regards, Imre Any hope of tracing the sources of #1 and #2 ? Such as Apple users ? and which editor was used? -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
I think eventually chains will see the light, and publish their locations in an open format compatible manner. At that point a quick cross check with OSM would clear up most of the issues. Agree. Has anyone actually asked the retail chains? I haven't because I don't want to suggest that we will do anything with the data until I know we have the right tools in place to match entries in their database and in OSM. I'm sure it's an easy task but I don't know how to do that. I'd also like to see community support in place so that we can merge in some of their attributes (phone number, opening hours, etc). This could be a bigger challenge! Regards, Rob ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
I think http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI:McDonald%27s is overkill however. And long term chances are some form of synchronization with McDonald's official store finder will replace the current manual process. Agree, something like this with a more organized overview would be better: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Retail_Chains And those individual pages also are not like Map Features. The main problem with all these pages is that if something is updated or changed you have to do it everywhere. So I would try to limit it. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
I am trying to figure out a way of cleaning up incorrect chain store data in OSM. For example there are 1422 instances of McDonalds in OSM (should be McDonald's) and 203 instances of Tim Horton's (should be Tim Hortons). I have created pages on the OSM wiki called http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chain_Store_Cleanup and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chain_Store_Directory. Ideally I would like to create wiki pages for every large chain of stores in the world that is similar to Map Features, with recommended ways of tagging chain stores. A lot of new OSM users get this wrong and create incorrect data, and there wasn't anything on the wiki telling users that McDonalds or Tim Horton's is incorrect. This is really preliminary and I'm sure that this can be improved a great deal. I would also like to keep track of chain stores that have closed stores or changed name. For example, Target closed all its stores in Canada recently and Wal-Mart changed the name of all its stores to Walmart a few years ago. Do people mind if I start fixing these errors myself, finding POIs with overpass turbo and editing individual POIs one at a time? I understand that large scale mechanical edits over a large area are a bad idea and the admins hate people doing that (it is too easy to make mistakes, and there is bound to be something called McDonalds that is not actually a McDonald's fast food restaurant, and I don't really want to get into wars over how to tag things, but amenity=fast_food and name=McDonalds is just wrong). I think that applying the mechanical edit policy to semi-automated edits that are done one at a time is overkill though. However, there are a lot of these errors in OSM, so I really need help from other people to fix these errors. Also, it would be appreciated if validation rules for chain stores could be added to automated bug fixers such as maproulette, keepright, osmose, etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
You'll probably face an easier road if your clean page follows the mechanical edit convention, using your name: (sample: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Bryce_C_Nesbitt ), even if you're not doing something fully mechanical. Then: 1. Add the TODO plugin to JOSM. 2. From overpass turbo load name=McDonalds and amenity=fast_food. 3. Export to JOSM (clicking 'repair' first). 4. Select a reasonable region, such as your home country. Invert the selection and purge the rest of the nodes to eliminate the non-target areas of the earth. 5. Select only tagged objects (using search) and add to the TODO plugin. 6. Step through the nodes, prior to making any mechanical changes. I recommend working only in countries where you understand the language and culture. name=McDonalds might be correct in places you don't fully understand. I think http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/POI:McDonald%27s is overkill however. And long term chances are some form of synchronization with McDonald's official store finder will replace the current manual process. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
cleaning up incorrect chain store data in OSM.
... McDonald's fast food restaurant, ...
related project: https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index
and iD Editor use this (
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/master/data/name-suggestions.json )
and don't forget internationalisation :
like:
Макдоналдс: { count: 324, tags: { name:en: McDonald's } マクドナルド:
{ count: 692, tags: { name:en: McDonald's, cuisine: burger }
Regards,
Imre
2015-05-01 0:04 GMT+02:00 Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.com:
I am trying to figure out a way of cleaning up incorrect chain store
data in OSM. For example there are 1422 instances of McDonalds in
OSM (should be McDonald's) and 203 instances of Tim Horton's (should
be Tim Hortons).
I have created pages on the OSM wiki called
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chain_Store_Cleanup and
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Chain_Store_Directory. Ideally I
would like to create wiki pages for every large chain of stores in the
world that is similar to Map Features, with recommended ways of
tagging chain stores. A lot of new OSM users get this wrong and create
incorrect data, and there wasn't anything on the wiki telling users
that McDonalds or Tim Horton's is incorrect. This is really
preliminary and I'm sure that this can be improved a great deal. I
would also like to keep track of chain stores that have closed stores
or changed name. For example, Target closed all its stores in Canada
recently and Wal-Mart changed the name of all its stores to Walmart a
few years ago.
Do people mind if I start fixing these errors myself, finding POIs
with overpass turbo and editing individual POIs one at a time? I
understand that large scale mechanical edits over a large area are a
bad idea and the admins hate people doing that (it is too easy to make
mistakes, and there is bound to be something called McDonalds that
is not actually a McDonald's fast food restaurant, and I don't really
want to get into wars over how to tag things, but amenity=fast_food
and name=McDonalds is just wrong). I think that applying the
mechanical edit policy to semi-automated edits that are done one at
a time is overkill though. However, there are a lot of these errors in
OSM, so I really need help from other people to fix these errors.
Also, it would be appreciated if validation rules for chain stores
could be added to automated bug fixers such as maproulette, keepright,
osmose, etc.
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Chain Store Cleanup
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote: And long term chances are some form of synchronization with McDonald's official store finder will replace the current manual process. Agree, something like this with a more organized overview would be better I think eventually chains will see the light, and publish their locations in an open format compatible manner. At that point a quick cross check with OSM would clear up most of the issues. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
