On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Stephen Gower socks-openstreetmap.org@... writes:
What do you do when a road has completely gone?
I make a way with not:name and no other tags.
That doesn't work - it has to have a recognised highway tag. Peter
says it will be
On 9 February 2011 14:44, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Stephen Gower socks-openstreetmap.org@... writes:
What do you do when a road has completely gone?
I make a way with not:name and no other
Peter Miller peter.miller@... writes:
What do you do when a road has completely gone?
Actually we are going to accept an value for the highway tag, so it could be
highway=banana or highway=not or whatever.
Cool, so we can add spurious ways tagged with not:name=xxx and highway=no to
suppress the
Andy wrote:
I've just checked a few well-mapped areas - Tendring, Hull and
Edinburgh - and the not:name is running at 2%, 3.1% and 1.9% of
all
the roads.
I'm just catching up as I was out all of yesterday (always seems to
be loads of emails when I'm not keeping current) so this may have
been
Hi,
I would back the use of such a bot but in area's that could do with the help
and there are only a few of these now. There are a couple of small towns in
Aberdeenshire that could do with a little boost. Just be careful. The rest will
follow with a little patience
I think it is a skill that
I agree with you 100% on this. I think if OSM is street-level complete
(preferably with postcodes as well) then it will be picked up by a lot more
developers for their iPhone and Android apps and the amount of feedback we
could get would be a 100 times greater than now. A standardised, OSM hosted,
I would agree with this too; A fuller map will greatly increase usage and
visibility. However I don't think that a bot is necessarily the way to go.
What would be useful is a simple way for users to specify a bounding
box/polygon and download an OSM file with the OS data (or OS updates to OSM
On 4 February 2011 10:58, Bob Kerr openstreetmapcraigmil...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:
Hi,
I would back the use of such a bot but in area's that could do with the
help and there are only a few of these now. There are a couple of small
towns in Aberdeenshire that could do with a little boost. Just be
Peter Miller peter.miller@... writes:
I am aware that we still have many place names missing (available as open data
in the NatGaz file released by Traveline/DfT).
Place name nodes are a useful thing to have for address searches and should not
raise any objections about messing up existing data,
Ed Avis wrote:
This is the one thing that perturbs me too about using the OS data. Back
in
the days when we only had Yahoo, I would not tag the name on a way until
I had walked all the way down it checking for footpaths. If I'd only
explored
part of the way, I would tag the name on
On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 11:18:19AM +, Peter Miller wrote:
I use the following method.
If the OS name is different from the streetsign and general usage I put it
in not:name
If it is apparently a valid alternative I put it on alt_name
I am not clear why anything else is required.
What
On 4 Feb 2011, at 12:55, Stephen Gower wrote:
What do you do when a road has completely gone? Mascall Avenue in Oxford
has completely gone. There's a new housing estate, with a road network that
doesn't match what was there before, so there's no way to mark with old_name
or not:name or
On 4 February 2011 12:55, Stephen Gower socks-openstreetmap@earth.liwrote:
On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 11:18:19AM +, Peter Miller wrote:
I use the following method.
If the OS name is different from the streetsign and general usage I put
it
in not:name
If it is apparently a valid
Richard Fairhurst richard@... writes:
If we import OS OpenData into OSM, then OSM becomes national *but* is
no longer rich.
I can't agree with that at all. A blank area is not any more 'rich'
than one with basic details complete. We do not improve the map by
leaving blank bits.
There are
Brief expansion of previous point:
Ed Avis wrote:
So I did hesitate about adding name=Newton Road to a street which I had
not visited. But then I considered the folk living on that street typing
its
name into Nominatim and getting no results.
Let's see what Wikipedia does (and when you
Richard,
I don't think we need a bot for this as the current tools seem quite
adequate to me. If the missing streets are added this year then that would
be great.
Building a community is ideal but I think outside the successful parts of
the country we are not going to get a lot of people wanting
Peter Miller peter.miller@... writes:
What do you do when a road has completely gone? Mascall Avenue in Oxford
has completely gone. There's a new housing estate, with a road network that
doesn't match what was there before, so there's no way to mark with old_name
or not:name or anything.
I
On Fri, Feb 04, 2011 at 01:25:31PM +, Ed Avis wrote:
I would suggest that whoever removed Mascall Avenue from the map should have
mapped what replaced it - a brownfield site or whatever - to avoid future
confusion.
For what it's worth, we did - there's now a landuse=residential;
On 2 February 2011 21:10, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:
It could do the following:
1) Add names to existing roads in osm where there is a single un-named ways
in osm with a bounding box which matches that of a single entry in os
locator.
2) In addition... it might be able
On 3 February 2011 08:47, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:
On 2 February 2011 21:10, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:
It could do the following:
1) Add names to existing roads in osm where there is a single un-named
ways in osm with a bounding box which matches that of a
please point me to some info?
Keep up the grand work.
Cheers
STEVE
From: Peter Miller [peter.mil...@itoworld.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:36 AM
To: Tom Chance
Cc: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Adding a further 250, 000 UK roads quickly
Peter Miller wrote:
Don't worry - this will only happen once every three months when the OS
publish an updated OS Locator file. We updated to the latest OS Locator
version (dated November 10) last night, hence a few places have fallen
off their '100% perch'! We should be due another one
Peter Miller wrote:
Any thoughts?
Very, very sceptical.
We are slowly coming out of a dismal winter and getting back into the season
when we can do real surveying. That is, and always will be, OSM's strength.
If a bot can fix OSM by mashing it up with OS data, it can just as easily
post the
...@systemed.net]
Sent: 03 February 2011 10:15
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Adding a further 250, 000 UK roads quickly using a Bot?
Peter Miller wrote:
Any thoughts?
Very, very sceptical.
We are slowly coming out of a dismal winter and getting back into the season
when we can
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Speaking locally: If anyone were to propose running this on the West
Oxfordshire/Cotswolds area I would revert it as a matter of course,_unless_
very good reasons had been agreed in advance on the oxon-cotswolds@ mailing
list.
I think I'm probably with you on my area
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:
ITO have been offering a service to compare osm road names with os locator
road names for a while now[1] which has encouraged a lot of activity - and
has even led to Andy to obsession.[2] I have also suffered from a
On 02/02/2011 21:10, Peter Miller wrote:
ITO have been offering a service to compare osm road names with os
locator road names for a while now[1] which has encouraged a lot of
activity - and has even led to Andy to obsession.[2] I have also
suffered from a bout of urgent mapping myself while
I am listening to the feedback. Lets look that this from my perspective.
I have spent a lot of time filling out Suffolk with data from the OS.This
started in Ipswich with using the ITO compare tiles to spot errors and
omissions in the town itself.
This started over Xmas I decided to experimented
Thanks for your thoughts on this. I won't respond to individual points not
because I don't think they are valid, but because I think it will be useful
to hear from others and let the conversation develop. I am of course aware
that there is ia lot of concern about the proposal in the comments so
On 03/02/11 11:04, Peter Miller wrote:
Fyi, ITO will soon have to give the OS £13,500 for another's years use
of their ITN dataset and then additional usage and printing fees
during the year. As such I really want to get to the point where we
can say 'no thanks'!
As I suspected, the real
On 3 February 2011 10:04, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Peter Miller wrote:
Don't worry - this will only happen once every three months when the OS
publish an updated OS Locator file. We updated to the latest OS Locator
version (dated November 10) last night, hence a few places have
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:
This started over Xmas I decided to experimented using Potlatch 2, OS Open
Data and Bing aerial to map a completely unmapped town (Lakenheath) to OSM
as far as I could without visting the place. It worked very well
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Jerry Clough : SK53 on OSM
sk53_...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
OS OpenData is out-of-date. The April 2010 StreetView tiles are at least 2
years old, and where I've checked VDM is similarly dated. I have not failed
to find a significant change between OS OpenData (and
Peter Miller peter.miller@... writes:
If the OS name is different from the streetsign and general usage I put it in
not:name
If it is apparently a valid alternative I put it on alt_name
I hadn't realized that your OS Locator data check looks at alt_name too, thanks.
Sometimes it is necessary
Andy Allan gravitystorm@... writes:
This started over Xmas I decided to experimented using Potlatch 2, OS Open
Data and Bing aerial to map a completely unmapped town (Lakenheath) to OSM
as far as I could without visting the place.
I've just checked a few well-mapped areas - Tendring, Hull and
Peter Miller wrote:
I use the following method.
If the OS name is different from the streetsign and general usage I put
it in not:name
If it is apparently a valid alternative I put it on alt_name
I am not clear why anything else is required.
Probably half of the 'errors' in this area are due
On 3 February 2011 11:44, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Peter Miller wrote:
I use the following method.
If the OS name is different from the streetsign and general usage I put
it in not:name
If it is apparently a valid alternative I put it on alt_name
I am not clear why anything
I think automatically importing the OS data for areas where OSM currently has
little to no coverage - or coverage merely traced from Yahoo imagery - is
a great idea. Many people don't want bots to trample on their 'patch' which
they
have carefully surveyed, which is fine.
Any bot would have to
Ed Avis wrote:
Lastly, I don't believe that adding data from external sources discourages
contributors. Quite the opposite. It is a blank canvas that puts people off.
The way to bring in contributors is to show a map with a few missing details
that are so tempting to fix 'just one thing'...
On 3 February 2011 11:51, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
I think automatically importing the OS data for areas where OSM currently
has
little to no coverage - or coverage merely traced from Yahoo imagery - is
a great idea. Many people don't want bots to trample on their 'patch'
which
Dair Grant dair@... writes:
Lastly, I don't believe that adding data from external sources discourages
contributors. Quite the opposite. It is a blank canvas that puts people off.
The way to bring in contributors is to show a map with a few missing details
that are so tempting to fix 'just one
I'm not sure that mapping parties by non-locals are that different
from armchair tracing in terms of community engagement. Rather than a
bot, I'd aim for a tool that suggested the OS name if you draw a road
or click on an existing road without a name. That would save an awful
lot of typing while
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:
On 3 February 2011 11:32, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Jerry Clough : SK53 on OSM
sk53_...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
OS OpenData is out-of-date. The April 2010 StreetView tiles
Peter Miller wrote:
There is suggestion raised by a number of people, but refuted by others that
imports reduce the number of contributors.
It has been denied, not refuted. I think the closest there is to real data
on the effect is:
On 03/02/11 11:51, Ed Avis wrote:
Lastly, I don't believe that adding data from external sources discourages
contributors. Quite the opposite. It is a blank canvas that puts people off.
The way to bring in contributors is to show a map with a few missing details
that
are so tempting to fix
Ed Avis wrote:
I suggest, but cannot prove, that seeing an entirely blank canvas doesn't
entice you to start adding to the map, which must necessarily involve adding
small bits at a time.
Actually, seeing a blank canvas in my local area was exactly my motivation.
But everyone is different,
Dair Grant dair@... writes:
There is suggestion raised by a number of people, but refuted by others that
imports reduce the number of contributors.
It has been denied, not refuted. I think the closest there is to real data
on the effect is:
On 3 February 2011 11:51, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
I think automatically importing the OS data for areas where OSM currently
has
little to no coverage - or coverage merely traced from Yahoo imagery - is
a great idea.
I agree.
I would be totally opposed to this bot sniffing around
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Dair Grant dair@... writes:
There is suggestion raised by a number of people, but refuted by others that
imports reduce the number of contributors.
It has been denied, not refuted. I think the closest there is to real data
on
Tom Chance wrote:
But what about the Lleyn Peninsula in Gwynedd, north west Wales? I've
worked on Criccieth and the surrounding area for years, some others
have done bits in a few other towns, but most of the county and the
peninsula are still very bare after 5-6 years of OSM.
I don't
Ed Avis wrote:
We do also have real data on the effect of not doing imports - the towns
which are almost completely unmapped.
So let's go and map them. It's worked very well so far.
Am I missing something?
cheers
Richard
--
View this message in context:
I'm upset that the blue(95%+) area in the North East turns out to be
Darlington, which I believe is tracers that started OS once it was
available.
I've used the OS Locator tool around Durham, mainly in JOSM, to get towards
that 95%, and I turned a bit addicted. It makes me worried that I might go
On 3 February 2011 14:32, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:
I'm upset that the blue(95%+) area in the North East turns out to be
Darlington, which I believe is tracers that started OS once it was
available.
I've used the OS Locator tool around Durham, mainly in JOSM, to get towards
Richard Fairhurst richard@... writes:
We do also have real data on the effect of not doing imports - the towns
which are almost completely unmapped.
So let's go and map them. It's worked very well so far.
Am I missing something?
'Worked very well so far' is the part I disagree with. The OSM
On 3 February 2011 14:41, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
Richard Fairhurst richard@... writes:
We do also have real data on the effect of not doing imports - the towns
which are almost completely unmapped.
So let's go and map them. It's worked very well so far.
Am I missing
Ed Avis wrote:
'Worked very well so far' is the part I disagree with. The OSM model has
worked well for densely populated, prosperous areas. It's not at all
clear
that it is working well for remoter ones. If it were, we would not be
having this conversation.
I spend half my week in
On 03/02/2011 13:36, Tom Chance wrote:
On 3 February 2011 11:51, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com
mailto:e...@waniasset.com wrote:
I think automatically importing the OS data for areas where OSM
currently has
little to no coverage - or coverage merely traced from Yahoo
imagery - is
On 3 February 2011 15:10, Jerry Clough : SK53 on OSM
sk53_...@yahoo.co.ukwrote:
On 03/02/2011 13:36, Tom Chance wrote:
On 3 February 2011 11:51, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
I think automatically importing the OS data for areas where OSM currently
has
little to no coverage - or
On 03/02/2011 14:41, Peter Miller wrote:
On 3 February 2011 14:32, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com
mailto:nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:
Peter, I know the ITO locator layer only shows missing names and
that you're not just checking name=* (if the OS has a different
name
On 03/02/2011 15:24, Peter Miller wrote:
Or do both? Surely the guys at the Royal Commission on Ancient
Monuments are not about to head out on bikes to survey the area. What
they will do, possibly, is get the boundary correct and put names on
the buildings but not until the road
On 3 February 2011 15:53, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Peter Miller wrote:
name, not:name, alt:name name:en, name{lang} and possiby a few more.
alt:name or alt_name ?
Just to nail things down a little before I clear any differences ...
Where a name is different on a street sign
Peter,
Having read through most of the responses to date it is clear that there are
arguments for and against your suggestion. Time to put my view.
I'm not in favour, perhaps though not a surprise from the way I have mapped
historically.
I think imports generally receive mixed interest
Richard Fairhurst richard@... writes:
The OSM model has worked well for densely populated, prosperous areas. It's
not at all clear that it is working well for remoter ones.
I spend half my week in Charlbury (which ain't densely populated) and the
other half in Burton-on-Trent (which ain't
Matt Amos wrote:
as andy pointed out, i think we're addressing the wrong problem and
trying to fix it technically. maybe the best way forward is to address
the social problem: what can we do to grow the community?
I wouldn't say it is addressing the wrong problem but an orthogonal
Ed Avis wrote:
I think automatically importing the OS data for areas where OSM currently
has
little to no coverage - or coverage merely traced from Yahoo imagery - is
a great idea. Many people don't want bots to trample on their 'patch'
which they
have carefully surveyed, which is fine.
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