k to subscribe (if necessary). Please be aware
that discussion comments on the Unicode mail list are not automatically
recorded as input to the UTC. You must use the reporting link above
to generate comments for UTC consideration.
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html
Regards,
> Use of is perfectly appropriate to allow line breaks.
> What is not yet being done is to *disallow* line breaks in the dates;
> that is a mistake, since IE will break in dates and numbers, e.g.
> the number -
> 3.
Yes, but... In this particular set of files, no matter *HOW* narrow I made
the
Elaine asked:
> Why did Debbie suggest June 7 as a the latest date for
> responses?
Probably because that is the deadline for documents to be submitted for
consideration at the upcoming UTC meeting. The issue will be discussed
there, so anyone who wants to get their input into that meeting sh
Personally speaking, I would have expected that a recent message on this
list with the sujbect line "Katakana_Or_Hiragana" might have something to
do with Japanese, Hiragana, Katakana, or at least Han, or perhaps even
Asia. But no... It was about Phoenician.
It would be really helpful if peo
See also http://www.unicode.org/review/index.html#pri33
Rick
Dele --
> This mail is written with the Yoruba Keyboard that was rolled out
> yetserday. Please just look at the issue raised earlier raised.
You sent Unicode plain text, not an image. If you look at this with
different fonts or different platforms, you get slightly different results.
If you
Afrian Oracle wrote...
> The Yoruba Digital Consortium
> www.africaservice.com/yorubadigital might push the idea of e, o with dot
> below and grave or acute accent to make it easier for font and keyboard
> developers to implement.
>
> What do you think?
My opinion: it isn't easier, just different
Philippe,
> It seems that something got wrong when installing the new
> Unicode server, and that many messages that were initially
> processed in the message queue were missing.
This is false! Please note that some people said they re-sent their
messaages (which was also unnecessary). There was
Since Peter Kirk wrote, on the Unicode list, I'll CC the list.
Peter Kirk wrote:
> I sent several messages to the list between 16:20 and 16:30 GMT
> which were simply lost.
You are wrong. They were not lost -- at least not on this server. Check
the archives. (OK, I've had some config trouble w
missing or corrupted please do not hesitate to contact me (off list
please). I will investigate.
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
around the world,
you'll probably see a few messages appear on the list once the new service
is up, even before I announce that the new server is on-line.
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
Michael Everson wrote...
> >The historical cut that has been made here considers the line from
> >Phoenician to Punic to represent a single continuous branch of
> >script evolution.
>
> I think Rick McGowan wrote that sentence in UTR#3.
Indeed, I did. And I based my tak
Peter Kirk wrote...
> But on the other hand, the lack of a consensus among *any*
> people that they have a need for an encoding does seem to imply that
> there is no need for an encoding.
In this, you are utterly wrong, I'm afraid. We (in UTC) have seen
situations before where one group desires
.
(By the way, there is no need to discuss this move on the Unicode list. If
you have questions or concerns, please e-mail me off-list.)
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
press/press_release-cldr.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
> I've never managed to get either Notepad or Word to open Unihan.txt
Just use EMACS. Works fine.
Rick
> I am looking for some table of radicals
> that I can show our customer to help support that claim.
I think maybe you're looking for Chapter 17, the Radical Stroke Index, but
it's not printed in the "online edition" of the book. You can always buy
the book...
Rick
Philippe...
Thanks for your concern but,
1. This isn't the forum for analyzing virus spam. Please you, and everyone
else, let's try to keep this list tolerably on topic.
2. A virus in fact *did* transit this system, and your analysis is rather
wrong in several points. But since this isn't th
Asmus wrote:
> Unfortunately in case of any proposed characters, web-sites can be
> used as evidence only in a very limited way. [ ... ]
> So what we learn from this site, is -unsurprisingly- that the cent
> sign can be used as a fallback.
Yes, precisely, unless they have *pictures* of the things
Rick Cameron asked...
> It appears that Unihan.txt does not include mappings to Shift-JIS,
Right. It includes JIS mappings (for the Han portions of JIS).
> and that the only file on unicode.org that contains mappings between
> Shift-JIS and Unicode is in the 'obsolete' section.
Please read the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The cedi sign should be of the size of the dollar sign ($) or the euro sign
> (EUR). The site you provided is using the cent sign. The Ghana web site uses a
> better version of the cent sign for the cedi. See
> http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/economy/market.prices.
Oops.
Well...
*That* was a day early.
Rick
Peter Kirk wrote...
> I am undecided yet whether to make a formal proposal.
> Ken seems to suggest that this would be a waste of time -
Yes. I also think it would be a waste of time, but...
> although I can see some advantages in obtaining a formal rejection.
... I can also see some value in a
Peter Kirk wrote...
> ... I have a real requirement. The UTC has the power to meet my requirement,
> and to do so rather simply. I am asking them to meet it.
Actually, you are not asking UTC anything. You are discussing the PUA on a
public-access mail list. There's a big difference. This *is* t
Michael Everson suggested this might be "preferrable":
> PUA characters can be defined, locally and privately, according to
> some protocal which will WORK if people write software to do what
> they want
Yeah, probably preferrable if you want to use the PUA. To get anything to
work, people have
Unicode 4.0.1 has been released! The data files and documentation are
final and posted on the Unicode site. For details, see the version page for
Unicode 4.0.1 at:
http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.1/
Unicode 4.0.1 is an update version of the Unicode Standard. It adds no new
chara
D Starner wrote:
> But in practice I don't know of a single
> program that allows you to change the properties of Unicode
> characters without a recompile.
It's been a while since I've programmed with Apple's Cocoa environment,
but when last I looked, it dynamically loaded the property tables a
Can we take further discussions of censorship and proscribed words OFF this list?
Thanks,
Rick
You must use the reporting link above
to generate comments for UTC consideration.
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
Ernest Cline wrote...
> Consider for example, a font that offered both of the common glyph
> variants of PLUTO. At present, one would be have to be encoded as
> U+2647 and the other as a private use character, say U+E647.
Well, not necessarily. Depending on your system, one of them could just be
Philippe Verdy asked:
> What is, in Unicode the BiDi behavior of PUAs?
Read the documentation, Philippe. UAX #9 and the UCD tell you some info
about the bidi behavior of PUA characters; and if you then go look at the
data file, in 30 seconds you can find:
E000;;Co;0;L;N;
F8FF;;Co;0;L
Regarding Moon script... and Braille...
> And surely Braille could equally be
> considered a cipher of Latin script (although the same symbols are also
> used as a cipher of other scripts).
No, Braille is not a cipher of any other script. It is *not* simply
one-to-one mappable to/from the Lat
mail list are not automatically
recorded as input to the UTC. You must use the reporting link above
to generate comments for UTC consideration.
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
> See for example, http://www.4commongood.org/images/circlea.jpg
OK.
> 4) Determine a suitable code-page for the character
We don't do "code pages"; and you can actually skip this step if you
aren't sure where it might be able to go.
> 6) Create or find a computerised font representation of t
> What "organization" uses the ANARCHY SYMBOL? ;-)
That would be the DIS Organization.
Rick
Marion Gunn wrote...
> I do know my language is being badly served, however.
And I would conclude, given the discussion we've seen on this list, that
your language isn't being badly served by the Unicode Standard (or any
other character encoding), but by some fonts and their vendors.
You pos
tion.
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
John Snow asked:
> I went to have a look at the archives on Yahoo Groups and can't seem to
> find them! Can anybody give me the exact URL
The Yahoo "Unicode" group seems to have gone away. It disappeared a while
ago. I went looking for it a few weeks ago and can't find it. I have no
furtehr i
As long as we're on the topic, I have to weigh in on the conservative side
in this argument, with Ken Whistler. Use of the existing subscript
characters is generally bad practice. Adding more subscripts would be
adding to the bad practice, and yield even more different ways to express
the s
Philippe --
The data to answer your question is one the web. Since the new list of
soft-dotted characters appears in the latest data file, and can be compared
with previous files to see what has changed, you could try looking at the
difference between this:
http://www.unicode.org/Public/4.0
Philippe (and others who might be looking),
> I can't remember what was decided about the Soft-Dotted property of some
> Latin
> ligatures/digraphs with i or j in PR #11 (yes it was closed on last
> August...).
The resolved issues are posted on the "Resolved Issues" page. It is linked
from the
page.
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
Chris --
Note: I am not speaking officially, just giving my opinions.
> http://www.languagegeek.com/issues/ucas_unicode.html
Sorry I have no opinions at all about the major questions you are asking on the above page, and we probably need to involve some experts. The source documents for the UCAS
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
not automatically recorded
as input to the UTC. You must use the reporting link above to generate
comments for UTC consideration.
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
> I don't see the relevance of Coptic experts to this issue.
Sorry... I meant "other Greek expert contacts". (I'd just been reading
some Coptic-related docs.)
Rick
Peter,
I actually discussed this very issue with Debbie Anderson late last week.
She has raised the issue with TLG and with Coptic expert contacts. No
answer has yet been received from these experts (i.e., off the tops of
their heads, nobody seems to know what to do).
It is my feeling that
Three new Unicode Technical Notes are now available on the Unicode website.
The main Tech Notes page is here:
http://www.unicode.org/notes/
The new notes are:
#11 Representing Myanmar in Unicode: Details and Examples
by Martin Hosken & Maung Tuntunlwin
#12 UTF-16 for Process
This is your friendly reminder that the February UTC meeting is quickly
approaching. There are several public review issues open. So far, public
comment has been light. I hope you have all been working diligently on your
comments during the cold dark days of winter and are ready to spring the
o if
you have comments, please try to send them in soon.
Note: If you are a liaison representative, please forward this message as
appropriate within your organization.
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
Excuse me, but the actual subject of this thread isn't Cuneiform anymore.
It has morphed to a discussion of Panther PUA codepoints, so can you all
please use a different subject line?
Thanks,
Rick
organization.
Feedback is welcome. You may submit comments directly by using our
reporting form at http://www.unicode.org/reporting.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
Not to prolong this thread, but... Doug wrote:
> There may be a parallel, however tenuous, in the Federalist Papers, a
> series of articles that led to the drafting of the U.S. Constitution.
Sorry, factual error. Those papers did not *lead* to the drafting of the
Constitution, they were a set o
items can be found on the Resolved Issues page.
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
Theodore H. Smith asked:
> I've often wanted to type a symbol, that's like an exclamation mark,
> and a comma at the same time. That is, instead of the "." on the bottom
> of a "!", it has a "," instead.
> Is there such a Unicode code point? Just out of curiosity! Or I
> suppose, is there a way to
Of course, as usual, this is my opinion. UTC hasn't actually made any
proclamations about what will or won't be done in terms of the classes or
what kinds of classes might be assigned in the future.
Rick
> John Cowan suggested...
>
> > We will never come close to exceeding this limit.
John Cowan suggested...
> We will never come close to exceeding this limit. Essentially all new
> combining characters are either class 0 or fall into one of the 200-range
> positional classes.
Or 9, for viramas.
One take-home point is that there won't be any more "fixed position"
classes add
The answer is also not quite so simple. Braille is not standardized across
languages, so Braille of different languages and countries, even though
they may use the same dot patterns, are not mutually comprehensible. There
is a lot of complication, not the least of which is six-dot versus
ei
Jill Ramonsky asked on Nov 10:
> My question went unanswered, so I'll ask it again - do I get a vote?
Hmm... I'm finally catching up on mail-list mail from this past week. The
short answer to your question is "no", and others have said that. But, as
Philippe and others have said, you could jo
Andrew, There isn't a CJK list.
Rick
> CJK list ? Now if only there was a list of Unicode lists ...
We are pleased to announce the release of the 4.0.0 version of
Unicode Technical Standard #10: The Unicode Collation Algorithm
(UCA), which specifies a default sorting order and comparison
mechanism for all Unicode characters.
Major changes in this release include:
- The version of the UCA is now
Hello Tony,
Number one question: have you verified that DBArtisan 7 actually has
support for Unicode? I find nothing at all about Unicode support on QBS
Software web site, nor in the Embarcadero white paper, when I look at the
features of their products.
Rick
> However, I want to t
Philippe wrote...
> The Unicode English name of the "hacek" character is "caron" (U+030C)
Just for the record: Actually, in English, we still call it a hacek.
"Caron" is a term apparently invented in an ISO character encoding
committee, and is *NOT* in current use at all in English. We call
instructions for returning comments for UTC consideration.
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
Jill Ramonsky wrote...
> It seems to me that if 0x11 codepoints isn't a big enough space to fit in
> the Klingon alphabet (and other alphabets which were similarly rejected)
> then we need more codepoints. Simple as that.
Rejection of Klingon has *absolutely* nothing to do with space. Jill
Michael wrote...
> Someone calculated that at the present rate of character encoding
> (1000 a year) it would take something like 700 years to fill the
> whole range of characters
I think Ken and I have both done similar calculations, which are a matter
of record in the mail list archives,
Philippe Verdy wrote:
> It's true that there is no plan in Unicode to encode something
> else than plain text for existing or future actual scripts. But
> ISO10646 objectives are to also to offer support and integrate
> almost all other related ISO specifications that may need a
> unified codepoin
Before everyone goes jumping off the deep end with wanting to reserve more
space on the BMP for hyper extended surrogates or whatever, can someone
please come up with more than 1 million things that need to be encoded?
Our best estimate, for all of human history, comes in around 250,000. Even
John Cowan suggested:
> The earth is finite and small, and there's no place for
> large writing systems to hide from the eagle eyes of the Roadmappers.
Central Asia.
;-)
Rick
Florian Weimer asked:
> > http://www.unicode.org/review/
>
> Maybe I'm missing something, but I still can't find any reference that
> the Unihan.txt file will be released under a license that permits
> redistribution (which has been announced in other documents).
Ah, you're right. It will hav
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
François --
You might be interested to know that all of your recent mail has the
following header attached to it! Sounds to me like your outgoing server is
tagging mail, and it's getting things wrong.
Rick
> X-Spam-Report: This mail is probably spam. The original message has been
>
myrkraverk...sourceforge wrote:
> In a plain text environment, there is often a need to encode more than
> just the plain character.
...
> Since I'm using 64 bits, I call it Excessive Memory Usage Encoding, or
> EMUE.
...
> I thought of dividing the 64 bit code space into 32 variably wide
Michael wrote:
> I was asked how I describe it briefly to laymen. And I usually say
> "Unicode is like a big, giant font that is supposed to contain all
> the letters of all the alphabets of all the languages in the world."
Now, why do you suppose he removed *that* "like" and, like, left in all
ng link to subscribe (if necessary). Please be aware
that discussion comments on the Unicode mail list are not automatically
recorded as input to the UTC. You must use the reporting link above
to generate comments for UTC consideration.
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.h
Rajkumar S wrote:
> > The beta period closes on October 27, 2003. Since time is short,
> > developers are asked to please focus quickly on the data file review
> > if you have not yet done so.
>
> I am a newbie wrt Unicode procedures. Does this mean that I can propose
> some changes to Malayalam s
The beta period for Unicode 4.0.1 has been extended to October 27, 2003.
Detailed information is available on the beta page:
http://www.unicode.org/versions/beta.html
Beta versions of Unicode 4.0.1 data files are now available for public
comment here:
http://www.unicode.org/Pub
Curtis Clark,
> Caviar, 10kg, €FEED
Heh, heh... Don't you mean:
Caviar, Akg, €FEED
;-)
Rick
,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
> What do hackers with non
> Latin-based languages use for hex anyway?
They use 0-9, A-F, and a-f.
Hex is used mostly by programmers, mostly for computing, and mostly in
programming languages that have the digits and Latin letters built-in, and
that's what compilers expect to see. Hex doesn't
Jill Ramonsky asked...
> What guarantee do I have that other Unicode characters will not be
> added in the future which have the property "Hex_Digit"?
You don't have a guarantee of much in the future, except as indicated in
the Unicode stability policies.
Realistically, however, you're probabl
Someone suggested...
> It would be much simpler if each such character were clearly labelled in
> the code charts etc. DO NOT USE!, and with its glyph presented on a grey
> background or in some other way to indicate its special status.
Well, sure, I agree that it might be nice to somewhere doc
John Cowan remarked...
> Of course it's
> the *pint* (8 pints to a gallon) that is 16 or 20 fluid ounces.
Which explains to me why a pint of bitter in England seems quite so
enormous... well for a small Yank... ;-)
Rick
date. Please submit feedback with the reporting form at:
http://www.unicode.org/reporting.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Hello all...
We are approaching the feedback deadline for some of the open "Public
Review Issues". If you have any interest in sending comments for UTC
consideration, please see the Public Review page:
http://www.unicode.org/review/
for a list of the open issues, and instructions on
y). Please be aware
that discussion comments on the Unicode mail list are not automatically
recorded as input to the UTC. You must use the reporting link above
to generate comments for UTC consideration.
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
Jim Cloos asked
(B
(B> Or a haiku?
(B
(BAs long as we're off topic... A Haiku. Picking up on your 7 syllables, as
(Bquoted by Ken, how about:
(B
(BUnfortunately
(BTerra is not far behind
(Bthe eight ball of God
(B
(BH... Well, that certainly lacks a seasonal
Following on a recent bug report, and to fix problems with the last public
release, I have recently updated the "Convert UTF" sample code on the
Unicode web site. You can find the latest "alpha" code here:
http://www.unicode.org/Public/ALPHA/CVTUTF-1-1/
There are some changes in "ConvertU
rams which implement the Standard.
The complete list of available notes is accessible here:
http://www.unicode.org/notes/
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
The beta period for Unicode 4.0.1 has now started. Detailed information is
available on the beta page:
http://www.unicode.org/versions/beta.html
Beta versions of Unicode 4.0.1 data files are now available for public
comment here:
http://www.unicode.org/Public/4.0-Update1/
This
Peter Kirk suggested...
> Interesting and a little embarrassing that Unicode's own documentation
> is not Unicode compatible!
I don't think it's very embarrassing... The Unicode consortium after all
doesn't produce book editing and typesetting software, we use other
peoples' software.
I thin
Raymond Mercier suggested...
> http://wwwold.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n2422.pdf
And these 6 Sogdian letters were accepted and do appear in Unicode 4.0.
> http://www.gengo.l.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~hkum/pdf/SIE3.pdf
That documnet is apparently in some non-standard encoding and the French
accented let
John C asked...
> I would like to ask the old farts^W^Wrespected elders of the UTC
> which principle they consider more important, abstractly speaking:
> the principle that combining marks always follow their base characters
> (a typographical principle), or that text is stored, with a few minor
>
If I might stick my nose in here where I'm not too familiar... This
discussion reminds me of "Left Holam" or "Holam Left", a phrase which has
percolated up to my conscious brain this afternoon... So I thought I'd look
that up in the Unicode mail archives...
There was a discussion of this iss
Michael Everson asked:
> Do you really think that algorithm with all its warts is going to be
> used 50 years from now? I really would like to know.
You want warts, Mr Everson? Well, let's take a look at some history...
The standard for e-mail appears to now be RFC 2822, which obsoletes the
ve
Those interested in Tamazight might also be interested to know there has
been some preliminary work to encode it in Unicode. Copies of the
discussion documents are here:
http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n1757.pdf
http://www.unicode.org/~rick/03076-tifinagh-discussion.pdf
Perhaps people a
omments on the
Unicode mail list are not automatically recorded as input to the UTC. You
must use the reporting link above to generate UTC consideration.
http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html
Regards,
Rick McGowan
Unicode, Inc.
Peter Kirk wrote:
> And then if (and I know it's a big if) the UTC agrees in principle to
> allow a change to these combining classes, [...]
This just isn't going to happen, so people should look elsewhere for
solutions. I don't believe UTC could make such a decision and retain any
sort of cr
> > What would be the purpose of encoding these? I can't think of any.
> > They certainly don't need to be encoded as distinct characters to use
> > in a Last Resort font.
>
> Mostly for documentation purpose,
Why bother to encode them as distinct characters? "For purposes of
documentation" isn'
"Ostermueller, Erik" wrote:
> At unicode.org, when I click this link,
> http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=2
> I'm expecting to see a little square GIF that displays U+2.
> Instead, I see "N/A".
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