Vortex,
Not blowing my own trumpet (I don't need to I've got good support behind me)
this is what an apprentice learns in graduate school:
The subject frontiers
The art of scientific writing
How to do presentations
How to lead
Research Ethics
Writing grant proposals
How to manage time
How to mana
You know organisations, big plans, fail when the leadership is weak. It's
tragic when people get promoted beyond their ability or the ability of their
ego to contain it all. Then the hangers on smell the carrion.
I'd rather take a quiet role as advisor than the captain of the ship.
Technical knowh
loopy leader, flawed science, acolyte troops of
hangers on to the funding money (hey, nice offices, nice logos)
Or they had something but the leader got a bit cranky? Keep a distance.
-Original Message-
From: Mike Carrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 26 October 2008 01:43
To: vortex-l@esk
At 06:38 PM 10/25/2008 -0600, Edmund ("Neutral potential") Stroms wrote:
The infrequent success in CF can be explained if the required and rare
catalyst is absent in most studies. This being the case, we need to
search for this catalyst.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguisha
Edmund Storms wrote:
The values Mills uses to evaluate the process are all based on the
electron going to infinity. Therefore, these values simply cannot
apply to the real process. Instead, Mills assumes an unrealistic
process to make his numbers fit his expectation.
Brilliant observatio
>> MC:
>> Granted, there are problems, as with LENR phenomena which don't
>> make sense either. Nature is trying to tell us something.
> Ed:
> Yes, and I'm trying to listen.
In the same msg, Ed also writes:
>> This fact is not based on speculation, assumptions, or theory.
>> This is a simpl
Remi wrote:
Barring repeatable experiments and unequivocal data the good people are
too
busy and just can't be bothered.
MC: Yes, and therein lies much of the story of Mills and BLP. Mills is an MD
and his approach to physics is audacious and would be forgettable were it
not for its explan
- Original Message -
From: Jones Beene
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
Mike
MC: Helium is *not* a catalyst, it happens to be a chemically inactive good
heat
transfer medium. He+ is a catalyst, ionized by electric
- Original Message -
From: "Edmund Storms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:47 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:06:07
. Would not 17 eV be
required for the process?
In contrast, you assume that the final energy o
l" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
It's alright Mike I am a seasoned researcher, engineer, been in industry,
know the ropes, have some aptitude, done some work, know a few things,
seen
a few things. People are b
Howdy Mike,
A concise summary of a thread that has gone past it appointed importance.
The bartender at the Dime Box Saloon keeps saying.. "showing beats telling".
Over in San Antonio where Jim Bowie made a name for himself selling
"genuine imitation artificial real goldmine maps" there used to b
On Oct 25, 2008, at 3:05 PM, Mike Carrell wrote:
Ed wrote:
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
Robin, my main point is that an electron leaving an atom cannot go
to infinity under the conditions Mills has in his reactor. At
most, it will go into some other energy level, such as the
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:51:51 -0600:
Hi,
[snip]
>While that is true, the assumption is that the electron goes to
>infinity.
[snip]
>Suppose an electron goes from a level that requires 20 eV if the
>electron goes to infinity. Now suppose the electron actually
;
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
On Wikipedia:
"Atomic physics
Mills says that the electron is an extended particle which in free space
is
a flat disk of spinning charge[citation needed]. His new model treats the
electron, not as a point
In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:32:51 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>All the energy comes from formation of the Hydrino (108.8 eV worth).
>
>MC: But you get that energy *after* the reaction, not *before*, no?
Indeed. Why is this a problem?
[snip]
Regards,
Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAI
In reply to Remi Cornwall's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:57:04 +0100:
Hi,
[snip]
>I'm going to go to bed soon but photons are electrically neutral. Robin,
>virtual photons shield charge. QED is a *big* subject that's tackled in the
>graduate school and it's not easily mastered unless one's done
- Original Message -
From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:30:19 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
This is unfortunate giv
Mike
MC: Helium is *not* a catalyst, it happens to be a chemically inactive good
heat
transfer medium. He+ is a catalyst, ionized by electric fields in some
experiments. The DSC is a sophisticated Calvet calorimeter system which does
not ionize He.
'Chemically inactive' is FAR from a resi
few times and you get set back, it takes time to win the
confidence back.
Barring repeatable experiments and unequivocal data the good people are too
busy and just can't be bothered.
-Original Message-
From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 October 2008 23:25
To:
- Original Message -
From: "Remi Cornwall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
Yeah but without getting political (Christ knows, this is the season for
it)
where is a clear exposition of the ex
oil.
>
> I'm not saying Mills is but taking the stance of an impartial observer who
> knows how difficult it is passing muster with peers at top universities
> and
> how important it is to take people's advice over presentation matters.
>
> -----Original Message---
In reply to Remi Cornwall's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:13:44 +0100:
Hi,
[snip]
>On a simple hydrogen model, the energy levels are proportional to the mass
>of the electron. To drop below would require the mass of the electron to
>change.
[snip]
Changing the mass of the electron would be one wa
fromn research to
development.
Mike Carrell
- Original Message -
From: "Remi Cornwall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:10 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
I mean is anything generally accepted/corroborated,
peer reviewed?
i.e. can yo
- Original Message -
From: "Jones Beene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
- Original Message
From: Mike Carrell
MC: remember to look at the DSC scan in Fig. 7. NaH goes strongly
exothermi
Thank you MC
-Original Message-
From: Mike Carrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 October 2008 22:49
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
- Original Message -
From: Remi Cornwall
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:13 AM
Subject
On Oct 25, 2008, at 2:47 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:06:07
-0600:
Hi Ed,
Robin, my main point is that an electron leaving an atom cannot go to
infinity under the conditions Mills has in his reactor. At most, it
will go into some
uot;Ts".
What if he has something producing excess heat and then clouds it all with
stuff people can't begin to digest?
-Original Message-
From: Mike Carrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 October 2008 22:05
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
Ed wrote:
Sub
- Original Message -
From: Remi Cornwall
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
OK, you caught me lurking.
I am fascinated by this BLP stuff but haven't been following it in detail
over the years.
MC: You have a l
In reply to Robin van Spaandonk's message of Sun, 26 Oct 2008 08:33:16 +1100:
Hi,
[snip]
>H + He+ -> H[1/3] + He2+ 54.4 eV ?
>
>The energy released by the reaction would create extra He+ from H.
Oops. That should have been:-
The energy released by the reaction would create extra He+ from _He_.
R
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:57:47 -0700 (PDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>- Original Message
>
>From: Mike Carrell
>
>
>MC: remember to look at the DSC scan in Fig. 7. NaH goes strongly exothermic
>all by itself in an He atmosphere.
>
>
>Why, instead of "all by itself" is
In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:36:16 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>MC: remember to look at the DSC scan in Fig. 7. NaH goes strongly exothermic
>all by itself in an He atmosphere.
[snip]
..and what conclusion do you draw from this?
Regards,
Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:30:19 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>This is unfortunate given that He+ is also a catalyst.
>
>MC: But He is not a catalyst, it used as a chemically inert heat transfer
>medium. When the reaction fires, undoubtedly some He will be ionized and the
>H
-Original Message-
From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 October 2008 21:48
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:06:07 -0600:
Hi Ed,
>Robin, my main point is that an electron le
Ed wrote:
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
Robin, my main point is that an electron leaving an atom cannot go to
infinity under the conditions Mills has in his reactor. At most, it will
go into some other energy level, such as the conduction band if one
exists in the material. This fact
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Sat, 25 Oct 2008 09:06:07 -0600:
Hi Ed,
>Robin, my main point is that an electron leaving an atom cannot go to
>infinity under the conditions Mills has in his reactor. At most, it
>will go into some other energy level, such as the conduction band if
>o
ence. They are incredibly arrogant, closed minded and over funded.
Change a' coming.
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 October 2008 19:27
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
- Original Message
From: Remi Cornwal
- Original Message
From: Remi Cornwall
> I mean is anything generally accepted/corroborated, peer reviewed?
On his site, you will find dozens of articles in "second tier" peer-reviewed
publications (or lower).
As far as the top journals - of course not.
They will be the last to p
e over presentation matters.
-Original Message-
From: Mike Carrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 October 2008 18:30
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
- Original Message -
From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, Oct
- Original Message
From: Mike Carrell
MC: remember to look at the DSC scan in Fig. 7. NaH goes strongly exothermic
all by itself in an He atmosphere.
Why, instead of "all by itself" is this not evidence that Helium is a
catalyst?
Mills once consider it to be - has he changed tha
MC: remember to look at the DSC scan in Fig. 7. NaH goes strongly exothermic
all by itself in an He atmosphere.
Regards,
Mike Carrell
- Original Message -
From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo
- Original Message -
From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:54:12 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
To:
Robin van Spaandonk
Jones
the field?
Peer review and research ethics.
_
From: Remi Cornwall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 October 2008 16:17
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
Rest mass muon > 100Mev. So that answers a question about them being
created. I guess not a po
Rest mass muon > 100Mev. So that answers a question about them being
created. I guess not a possible mechanism.
_
From: Remi Cornwall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 October 2008 16:14
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
OK, you caught me lurking.
OK, you caught me lurking.
I am fascinated by this BLP stuff but haven't been following it in detail
over the years.
Ron Wormus gave this:
http://www.blacklightpower.com/Documentary%20Video/blacklight_experiment_vid
eo_v2.wmv
These guys seem competent, respected and well kitted out in t
Robin, my main point is that an electron leaving an atom cannot go to
infinity under the conditions Mills has in his reactor. At most, it
will go into some other energy level, such as the conduction band if
one exists in the material. This fact is not based on speculation,
assumptions, or
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:05:50 -0600:
Hi,
[snip]
>I think you are close to describing the process, Robin. Simply
>decomposing NaH cannot result in hydrinos because the expected ion is
>not formed.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, unless someon
In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:54:12 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>To:
>Robin van Spaandonk
>Jones Beene
>Ed Storms
>Scott Little
>[and lurkers]
>
>This has been a very useful discussion. If you have not done so, I recommend
>downloading http://www.blacklightpower.com/papers/WFC10
On Oct 24, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:45:37
-0600:
Hi,
[snip]
The Mills interpretation does not make chemical sense. Normally, NaH
decomposes into H2 and Na metal when this happens at high
temperature.
I'm sure
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:03:21 -0700 (PDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>One more 'flash from the past' on Robin's mention of an energy "sink" being
>"like a hole in the ground." (how quickly we forget)
>
>This might also serve as some insight wrt Ed's comment.
>
>
>There is a geo
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:45:37 -0600:
Hi,
[snip]
>The Mills interpretation does not make chemical sense. Normally, NaH
>decomposes into H2 and Na metal when this happens at high
>temperature.
I'm sure that that happens, however how many such experiments ha
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 24 Oct 2008 07:25:36 -0700 (PDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>Robin
>
>> When Mills talks about an "energy hole" he is *not* talking about a "missing
>> electron" as in a "hole" in a semi-conductor. He simply means an energy
>> "sink" or "sump" (like a hole in the grou
To:
Robin van Spaandonk
Jones Beene
Ed Storms
Scott Little
[and lurkers]
This has been a very useful discussion. If you have not done so, I recommend
downloading http://www.blacklightpower.com/papers/WFC102308WebS.pdf and
printing pages 10-14 and 48. Figure 7 on p48 is a scan of NaH using
Diff
Ha! Yes I saw with horror that my spell checker had failed me once again, but
too late to change things
Not sure what exactly - the subconscious 'bleed' is related-to: "sect" "sextet"
or even "sex" although I'm pretty sure which one uncle Siggy would choose...
- Original Message
Fr
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Jones Beene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mills may have opened a Pandora's box of LENR sectrets.
SECTrets? If this was unintentional, you might want to keep an eye on
your subconscious.
And why not? Your printer is watching you:
http://www.boingboing.net/2008
One more 'flash from the past' on Robin's mention of an energy "sink" being
"like a hole in the ground." (how quickly we forget)
This might also serve as some insight wrt Ed's comment.
There is a geometric dimension to a 27.2 eV 'hole' if one wishes to consider
the wavelength of UV photon rad
The Mills interpretation does not make chemical sense. Normally, NaH
decomposes into H2 and Na metal when this happens at high
temperature. This is an ionic bonded compound, which means the
bonding electron moves from an orbit main associated with H to an
orbit mainly associated with Na.
Robin
> When Mills talks about an "energy hole" he is *not* talking about a "missing
> electron" as in a "hole" in a semi-conductor. He simply means an energy
> "sink" or "sump" (like a hole in the ground).
What you are saying then is that he may be employing a fairly well-known term
of phys
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:34:47 -0700 (PDT):
Hi Jones,
[snip]
>Robin
>
>
>> I think you misunderstand.
>
>The energy required to break NaH into atoms is 1.98 eV.
>The energy required to then ionize the Na to Na+ is 5.1391 eV.
>The energy required to then
Robin
> I think you misunderstand.
The energy required to break NaH into atoms is 1.98 eV.
The energy required to then ionize the Na to Na+ is 5.1391 eV.
The energy required to then ionize the Na+ to Na++ is 47.286 eV.
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:49:22 -0700 (PDT):
Hi Jones,
>Hi Robin,
>
>
>> According to Randy, the NaH decomposes directly in Na+++ + H[1/3] + 3e- .
>
>LOL !!
>
>> In going from H[1] to H[1/3] the H requires an energy hole of 54.4. eV. This
>> is
>the sum of the first
Hi Robin,
> According to Randy, the NaH decomposes directly in Na+++ + H[1/3] + 3e- .
LOL !!
> In going from H[1] to H[1/3] the H requires an energy hole of 54.4. eV. This
> is
the sum of the first and second ionization energies of Na (5.1391 eV & 47.286
eV resp.) and the energy required to b
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:04:52 -0700 (PDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>Robin,
>
>
>>The other would be 62Ni + (hy) --> 63Cu.
>
>RvS: The latter reaction is far less likely, because the Coulomb barrier is
>much
>higher for Ni than for Na.
>
>Yes. That is the traditional viewpoint
In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:48:33 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>There is something much simpler. NaH is formed by reactions given from NaOH
>coating of the R-Ni and heating. At some point the NaH decomposes, releasing
>Na and H atoms in close proximity, whereby Na++ then catal
Robin,
>The other would be 62Ni + (hy) --> 63Cu.
RvS: The latter reaction is far less likely, because the Coulomb barrier is much
higher for Ni than for Na.
Yes. That is the traditional viewpoint for a charged particle but if the Hy is
neutral, up until it gets within range of the strong forc
Mike
Here is why you are puzzled.
You say: "At some point the NaH decomposes, releasing
Na and H atoms in close proximity, whereby Na++ then catalyses the H
producing H[1/3]. There are aspects of this which puzzle me."
No Kidding! Not the least of which puzzlement should be that this species
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 23 Oct 2008 11:36:46 -0700 (PDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>One reaction would be 23Na + (hy) --> 24Mg. Where the pseudo-neutron adds a
>proton and transmutes sodium into magnesium with very little radioactivity -
>but there could be energetic betas and soft x-rays. O
- Original Message -
From: "Jones Beene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
Ed
I'm confused. I was under the impression that the NaH was the catalyst
required to form the hydrino. If this is t
On Oct 23, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
Ed,
Suppose the Ni in contact with NaH provides a place for the electron
released from NaH to go that then gives the energy change the right
value. After all, NaH does not have a conduction band and the
electron could not find a way out of the
Ed,
Suppose the Ni in contact with NaH provides a place for the electron
released from NaH to go that then gives the energy change the right
value. After all, NaH does not have a conduction band and the
electron could not find a way out of the local system without a
conductor with a cond
what he EXPECTS to happen.
Ed
On Oct 23, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Mike Carrell wrote:
- Original Message - From: "Edmund Storms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
To:
Cc: "Edmund Storms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:B
- Original Message -
From: "Edmund Storms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Cc: "Edmund Storms" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
I'm confused. I was under the impression that the NaH was the
Howdy Jones,
I place little faith in the Grace people. The leadership at Grace have
demonstrated they cannot win.
There was an outfit in Louisana we purchased some sponze aluminum from back
when that was working on nickel also. I am trying to dig up their name.
Guys acted like they had their
Jones,
While speculation is underway, I would like to add my own. The Mills
criteria for a catalyst is the energy that is required to remove an
electron from a level to infinity, i.e. the ionization potential.
However, this can only occur in a gas. In a solid, the electron never
goes to
Ed
> I'm confused. I was under the impression that the NaH was the catalyst
required to form the hydrino. If this is true, what is the role of the
Raney nickel?
First - there are two very distinct ways to look at this situation.
It is somewhat logical to believe, as does Mike Carrell, that
>From Edmund Storms:
> I'm confused. I was under the impression that the NaH was the catalyst
> required to form the hydrino. If this is true, what is the role of the Reney
> nickel?
>
> Ed
Good point.
Out at the BLP web site a graphic revealing the BLP process states:
"Specifically, molecular
I'm confused. I was under the impression that the NaH was the catalyst
required to form the hydrino. If this is true, what is the role of the
Reney nickel?
Ed
On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:00 AM, OrionWorks wrote:
From Mike Carrell:
Remember this: Raynal-Ni is a trade name of Grace. In the BL
>From Mike Carrell:
> Remember this: Raynal-Ni is a trade name of Grace. In the BLP reactor, it is
> a catalyst in a chemical system producing NaH, which is the catalyst in the
> energy reaction. Mills is very explicit in stating that only hydrogen is a
> consumeable in the reaction, producing hyd
- Original Message -
From: "Jones Beene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "vortex"
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:57 AM
Subject: [Vo]:Banking on BLP?
Assuming that the recent BLP-Rowan report is fairly accurate, and assuming
that it does represent a
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 9:57 AM, Jones Beene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> CAVEAT: I am perhaps the worst stock picker of all time; and you would
> probably do better throwing darts at a copy of an old issue of WSJ.
Not as bad as me. My advice: short anything I buy. :-)
Terry
Assuming that the recent BLP-Rowan report is fairly accurate, and assuming that
it does represent a marketable breakthrough in alternative energy - then among
the many implications for vorticians are: is there a way to 'play' this by
investing on the stock market (assuming you were not wiped ou
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