LOL. I smell an Ig Nobel Prize in the making…
http://www.improbable.com/ig/winners/
Whew… the fumes are overwhelming. Pass me one of Dr Bodnar’s protective face
masks please… and Do NOT go in there …
From: Eric Walker
I'm not so sure. I think the main discovery was set o
I'm not so sure. I think the main discovery was set out sometime back in
my paper, here [1], with a little help from the Internet [2].
Eric
[1]
http://apps.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/scicache/399/scimakelatex.51556.Eric+Walker.html
[2] http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/scigen/ (Check it out -- it's pretty cool
w
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Eric Walker wrote:
>
>>
>> We're very fickle, here. Once some solid information comes from
>> defkalion (e.g., via a reliable third party such as National Instruments),
>> we'll all be saying we believed them all along.
>>
>
> Darn right we
Eric Walker wrote:
>
> We're very fickle, here. Once some solid information comes from defkalion
> (e.g., via a reliable third party such as National Instruments), we'll all
> be saying we believed them all along.
>
Darn right we will! Not only that, some of us will modestly accept credit
for D
Trying to be positive I would say that is a Zeppelin failure (Until the
last failure, Zeppelin was saying that he was learning only from his
failures... and by the way we have a Zeppelin today over paris)).
Defkalion tried to seduce ICCF18, and LENR scientists.
If you add Rob's comments of patent
>At this early juncture, it looks like the LENR reaction is driven by an
>electromagnetic force. What is that force. The electromagnetic field can be
>viewed as the combination of an electric field and a magnetic field. The
>electric field is produced by stationary charges, and the magnetic fie
David Roberson wrote:
> My concern is that the exit flow rate is not accurately measured at an
> input meter when reverse steam pressure is applied at the high temperatures
> seen. It has not been proven that the input gauge is accurate under this
> condition.
Me too. That's what worries me.
: John Milstone
Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 4:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:just published -with permission- a paper about DEFKALION
Why bother with the flow rate to the outside? It would not change the measured
energy.
2013/8/12 David Roberson
They checked the metered flow rate in the input side, but did
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Peter Gluck wrote:
I have studied history and so I am aware that when Christopher Columbus has
> discovered the New World,the North American mass media was unanimous in
> rejecting his business model as "primitive,
> dis-informed and inadequate for discovering an
You might have missed this post on the magnetic LENR effect:
--
At this early juncture, it looks like the LENR reaction is driven by an
electromagnetic force. What is that force. The electromagnetic field can be
viewed as the combination of an electric field and a
Eric, you need to consider what a magnetic field really is when it is
measured in space 20 cm from an object in which the field is
generated. Such fields either result from a very large DC current or a
very efficient alignment of magnetic domains in the material. The
alignment must be acco
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I get a sense they are floundering around, trying out one plan after
> another.
>
The complexity (branches in Canada, Greece, Italy, etc.), the numbers (40
million, 8 zeros, etc.) and similar details make me nervous. I am willing
to write off
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 5:27 PM, blaze spinnaker
wrote:
Man, what does it say for Defkalion when everyone on Vortex is a doubter...
We're very fickle, here. Once some solid information comes from defkalion
(e.g., via a reliable third party such as National Instruments), we'll all
be saying we b
The strategy is fine, except if you're a public company.ESPECIALLY if
insiders or others happen to know the true numbers, which can attract all
sorts of investor law suits for not telling the truth and artificially
depressing the stock price.
Once you become public, everything changes.
On Mon
I wrote:
> Practice a few more times, tighten up the script, make some good
> accompanying graphics and you would have a superb demonstration. It just
> needs tweaking.
>
Yeah, okay, you also need to adjust the procedures to reduce suspicion. I
agree with Jones Beene that it could still be a mag
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Edmund Storms wrote:
Peter, a magnetic field has not been discovered. A claim has been made
> without any evidence or even a logical explanation. The claimed high
> intensity of a magnetic field is impossible under the circumstance.
> Therefore the reading on the
blaze spinnaker wrote:
Oh yeah, brilliant strategy. Let's appear incompetent. That won't
> encourage competitors...
Actually, that was Patterson's strategy, as I have often mentioned. He
wanted potential competitors to think there was nothing to see. Cold fusion
does not exist. Don't bother d
Daniel Rocha wrote:
They do NOT want to measure precisely. They want to show that it is bigger
> 1.1.
>
There is no need to measure precisely, but they should measure accurately.
Otherwise there is no telling whether it is 1.1, 4.1, or 0.6. Believe me, I
have seen big, impressive, noisy machines
blaze spinnaker wrote:
Man, what does it say for Defkalion when everyone on Vortex is a doubter...
It says they should have done a better job on the demo. They should have
planned it, and rehearsed. It was kind of amateur. I find it hard to
believe they have been selling this to customers and i
Oh yeah, brilliant strategy. Let's appear incompetent. That won't
encourage competitors...
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
> They do NOT want to measure precisely. They want to show that it is bigger
> 1.1.
>
> So there is no chance they will hear your advice so soon.
>
>
They do NOT want to measure precisely. They want to show that it is bigger
1.1.
So there is no chance they will hear your advice so soon.
2013/8/12 Jed Rothwell
> Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
> Why bother with the flow rate to the outside? It would not change the
>> measured energy.
>>
>
> This is f
Man, what does it say for Defkalion when everyone on Vortex is a doubter...
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Alan Fletcher wrote:
> We are working on our paperwork and we believe that we would be able to
> negotiate after October 15th, 2013. Starting November 1st, we will hold a
> Road Show fro
We are working on our paperwork and we believe that we would be able to
negotiate after October 15th, 2013. Starting November 1st, we will hold a Road
Show from city to city to promote our share. "
Before a demo/test that doesn't even convince Vortex is a bit premature. I'm
pretty sure they c
*“Obviously, these theories can explain anything even if the observation
has no relationship to reality.”*
A theory that does not explain the experimentally observed magnetic field
has no relationship to reality.
Is it not a fact, if a presenter at ICCF states an experimental finding in
their
Daniel Rocha wrote:
Why bother with the flow rate to the outside? It would not change the
> measured energy.
>
This is flow calorimetry. If the flow rate is wrong, they measured the
power wrong. Measuring the flow rate correctly is critical.
- Jed
had been done at least on one occasion.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: DJ Cravens
> To: vortex-l
> Sent: Mon, Aug 12, 2013 3:18 pm
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:just published -with permission- a paper about DEFKALION
>
> did they check the flow
, 2013 3:18 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:just published -with permission- a paper about DEFKALION
did they check the flow while it was under steam pressure? I worry that since
they are using water mains, there could be back pressure from the steam that
slowed the flow. I haven't heard this disc
Daniel Rocha wrote:
> But they did demonstrate it was correct. If you doubt that. You can doubt
> anything.
>
No, they did not demonstrate this rigorously. They did not show the same
results with different instruments or two different methods. They showed
only one set of instrument readings. In
: [Vo]:just published -with permission- a paper about DEFKALION
From: danieldi...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
But they did demonstrate it was correct. If you doubt that. You can doubt
anything.
2013/8/12 Jed Rothwell
Daniel Rocha wrote:
I suppose they did not need to include that ent
But they did demonstrate it was correct. If you doubt that. You can doubt
anything.
2013/8/12 Jed Rothwell
> Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
> I suppose they did not need to include that enthalpy in the computation
> shown on the screen, but they should have demonstrated that the outlet
> temperature was
Daniel Rocha wrote:
Why should they demonstrate all that heat? Even ignoring the enthalpy, it's
> still big!
>
I think it was a bad idea to jump over the steam as if it did not matter,
and not even demonstrate that it was steam. In retrospect that seems like
an odd thing to do. As if they were e
Axil, the question is, Exactly what behavior did the experiment show?.
DGE claims to have measured a magnetic FIELD of 1.6 T. Such an intense
magnetic field cannot form under the circumstances. Therefore, they
misinterpreted the behavior. The problem is to discover just what they
actually
Regarding your theories and the magnetic behavior of the Ni/H reactors of
both Defkalion and Rossi:
"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how
smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong".
Richard P. Feynman
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Edmund
Why do you discuss any thing on vortex? Why do you even comment since
we are all engaging in random curiosity about everything?
You make no sense. RF is not identified as a magnetic field. The
impression given is of a constant magnetic field being generated. If
you know this is not true, wh
shifted properties of the light
emanating from the active region are also affecting the magnetic field.
Fran
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 11:02 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:just published -with permission- a paper about
Man used fire for over 10,000 years before we came up with the idea it was
oxidation, but man probably sold wood to each other. Growing up in Maine
that was about all I had to sell to make money in the Fall.
Stewart
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
Daniel Rocha wrote:
You don't know under what conditions that was done. It may be not so simple.
>
How complicated could it be? It cannot be difficult to prove there is a
magnetic field that persists for a few seconds or longer. If it is a
millisecond I agree it might be difficult.
Magnetism is
Typically a legitimate stock/IPO offering will include a disclosure of
signed business contracts, etc. along with a P&L & Balance sheet, finances
forecast, etc. If they are legit a proper offering should disclose that
information.
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Jones Beene wrote:
>
>
You don't know under what conditions that was done. It may be not so simple.
2013/8/12 Jed Rothwell
> They have a Gauss meter that supposedly showed the field.
>
>
--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com
Daniel Rocha wrote:
You mean, to fry their computers, cell phones and kill people with pace
> makers?
>
If there is a large magnetic field capable of doing these things it will do
them. Demonstrating that the field is real will not prevent this from
happening. They have a Gauss meter that suppos
I agree that a time out is necessary, It is a huge anomaly that either needs to
be explained OR retracted.
Fran
From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 10:33 AM
To: John Milstone
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:just published -with permission- a paper about
Why should I do anything to satisfy any random curiosity! There is public
knowledge of magnetic field, at least in the form of RF from ICCF - 13,
which is correlated with COP enhancement by over 10x.
2013/8/12 Edmund Storms
> The time out refers to discussion by people on Vortex who have no
> k
Jones, I assume responsibility for my errors. Let's keep in touch re this
dispute and we will see who was right. OK?
Peter
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
> You mean, to fry their computers, cell phones and kill people with pace
> makers?
>
> 2013/8/12 Jed Rothwell
>
>>
>>
Daniel Rocha wrote:
Rossi's 500Kw test? :)
>
>
> 2013/8/12 Jed Rothwell
>
>> I have seen many impressive-looking cold fusion experiments that turned
>> out to be mistakes.
>>
>
I cannot judge whether that was real or not. Not enough information was
revealed. I said so at the time it was being d
The time out refers to discussion by people on Vortex who have no
knowledge about the issue. Do you have inside knowledge that you will
kindly provide?
Ed
On Aug 12, 2013, at 8:33 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
The only fact it is that you do not accept. There is no error and
since this is a rand
You mean, to fry their computers, cell phones and kill people with pace
makers?
2013/8/12 Jed Rothwell
>
> It will do that anyway, if it is real! I do not see your point.
>
> - Jed
>
>
--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com
From: Peter
Beyond any other consideration, the Hyperion generates
plenty of excess
energy in a controlled mode.
So you say. Where is the independent proof of this heat? I agree that it
looked good in the video, but other factors have completely n
Daniel Rocha wrote:
> And why would they demonstrate the magnetic field?
>
To show that it is real, obviously, and not an error with the Gauss-meter.
They should demonstrate the magnetic field for the same reason they should
demonstrate that the steam is real by pulling the hose out and showing
Rossi's 500Kw test? :)
2013/8/12 Jed Rothwell
> I have seen many impressive-looking cold fusion experiments that turned
> out to be mistakes.
>
--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com
Peter, a magnetic field has not been discovered. A claim has been made
without any evidence or even a logical explanation. The claimed high
intensity of a magnetic field is impossible under the circumstance.
Therefore the reading on the gauss meter was misinterpreted. Until
this issue is r
The only fact it is that you do not accept. There is no error and since
this is a random complaint, don't expect them to them to listen to you any
time soon. There is no time out and no delay in business.
2013/8/12 Edmund Storms
> The time out is necessary for this obvious error to be explained
Peter Gluck wrote:
Beyond any other consideration, the Hyperion generates plenty of excess
> energy in a controlled mode.
>
I would not be so sure of that. The demonstration was interesting and
helpful but I do not think it constituted proof. You need an independent
third-party check and you nee
Why should they demonstrate all that heat? Even ignoring the enthalpy, it's
still big!
And why would they demonstrate the magnetic field? That would be a hassle
and hell would break lose. It would even interfere with the controls.
2013/8/12 Jed Rothwell
> In retrospect I think it was a mistake
Jones Beene wrote:
> Kim should be ashamed to have his name on what amounts to no more than a
> stage show. Investors: Stay Away!
>
Well, I would call it a trade show demo. A step up from a stage show.
Still, it could have been more rigorous, better planned and better
rehearsed. They should hav
Beyond any other consideration, the Hyperion generates plenty of excess
energy in a controlled mode. This was my expectation from what has started
as cold fusion 24+ years ago.
The strong magnetic field is a discovery still not explored and not
completely understood. Our reasonable colleagues have
From: Teslaalset
It's about time we spend a bit more time on facts and much less on all the
fuzz.
Stirring up all kind of noise does not contribute to the promotion of LENR.
Sometimes it's OK to just be silent for a while.
You are exactly right.
Despite good intent, Peter seem
It's about time we spend a bit more time on facts and much less on all the
fuzz.
Stirring up all kind of noise does not contribute to the promotion of LENR.
Sometimes it's OK to just be silent for a while. LENR stalking is
undesired.
among the few irresponsible buzz to relay :
- is Defkalion bought out by Chinese ?
- does Russian/Ukrainian own a competing technology ?
- is 500 million for DGT, a small price ? If 48billion more honest? 8-o
- what is a scam artist company doing with Fasmatech ("a company
manufacturing spectrog
You are right; this is the original link,
http://www.tovima.gr/science/article/?aid=524943
The Title is THE RETURN OF DEFKALION
The Greek text is protected by a paywall.
If you have question do not hesitate to write me
Peter
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 11:16 AM, James Bowery wrote:
> I clicked
I clicked through your link and I'm confused. What's the title of the
paper. Who is the author? The only link to a paper I saw was in a PS at
the end and that was to a 2010 paper that has been available for some time:
http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/yekim/Kim_BECNF.pdf
On Mon, Au
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