1. Most of them are positive.
***Yeah, probably. But that's not really quite enough for the average
rational skeptic. I don't expect skeptopatholes to accept it, but rational
people expect high signal/noise evidence.
2. Many others are not reported.
***That's an invalid argument from silence.
Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote:
1. Most of them are positive.
***Yeah, probably. But that's not really quite enough for the average
rational skeptic.
It should be enough. Quibbling over the exact number is senseless. Such
debates have no bearing on experimental science.
2. Many
As an aside; polywater probably wasn't pseudoscience. See: Gerald
Pollack's 4th Phase of water.
Ron
--On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 12:03 AM -0800 Kevin O'Malley
kevmol...@gmail.com wrote:
1. Most of them are positive.
***Yeah, probably. But that's not really quite enough for the
Joshua Cude managed to dismantle the claim of 14,720 replications.
http://ecatnews.com/?p=2669cpage=14#comment-76884
popeye Reply http://ecatnews.com/?p=2669cpage=14replytocom=76873#respond
December 15, 2014 at 4:43 pm
Kevmo wrote:
JT He of the Chinese Academy of Sciences says 14,720 times…
Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote:
Joshua Cude managed to dismantle the claim of 14,720 replications.
http://ecatnews.com/?p=2669cpage=14#comment-76884
popeye Reply
http://ecatnews.com/?p=2669cpage=14replytocom=76873#respond
December 15, 2014 at 4:43 pm
Kevmo wrote:
JT He of the
Ed:
I love your books. I'm dealing with PTSIFOM skeptopaths who wouldn't read
a LENR book unless they knew $10 bills would fall out of each page.
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote:
Kevin, if you read my book (The science of low energy nuclear reaction),
I see it all over the place that hundreds of times it's been successfully
replicated. Here, Storms says: During the 20 years since the original
claim, hundreds of successful replications have been published. He then
goes on to look at 386 of them.
Storms cites 1060 positive result studies in his book The Science of Low
Energy Nuclear Reaction
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEthescience.pdf
On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote:
I see it all over the place that hundreds of times it's been
Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote:
I see it all over the place that hundreds of times it's been successfully
replicated. Here, Storms says: During the 20 years since the original
claim, hundreds of successful replications have been published. He then
goes on to look at 386 of them.
Thanks Kevin. My next book will be more interesting than usual because it
evaluates theory. More than a few cages will be rattled.
As for the skeptopaths, they are not worth the time. These people are clearly
not rational. Some human minds are not designed to accept reality most of us
enjoy.
Then it is easy to see how someone like JT He who reviewed the evidence
could come up with 14000 replications.
Let's say that, using Ed's figure of 1060 reports, that an average of 14
cells were successful for each experiment. That would get you the 14000
figure very quickly. And I've seen
Of these cells, how many of them were in a mode where the heat production
was unequivocal in the sense that a casual observer would be hard pressed
to deny what was going on?
Good examples of this in history are the:
1) original hole in the lab table event that triggered FP to pursue the
Ed has stated frankly that DGT is not to be included in the experimental or
theoretical undertakings of the serious LENR scientist.
Ed's books have included to this current juncture mention of Dr, Kim's BEC
based theories. Will Ed's negative felling for DGT rub off onto his current
collaborative
Harry
So be it.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: H Veeder
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Replications. Formerly [Vo]:LENR a gateway into the theory of
everything.
Bob,
Morpheus says to Neo in the movie The Matrix (1999):
Harry--Wikipedia regarding The Matrix says the following:
The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are pop culture symbols
representing the choice between embracing the sometimes painful truth of
reality (red pill) and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill). The
terms,
Some study that approach.
the problem is laws are designed so crowdfunding is treated like charity,
or at best as securities.
LENR is not a charity, it is a revolution, the next industrial revolution.
It deserve crowd-equities
this is what plain honest capitalism should be, and what it is not
Bob,
The red pill brings you closer to the truth by taking you deeper into the
rabbit hole.
The journey into Wonderland isn't mere escapism.
Like Mark said, you should watch the movie.
Harry
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote:
Harry--Wikipedia regarding
Actually, neither pill exists. Both are part of the construct.
Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJtallyofcol.pdf
This file is corrupted. At least for me...
Try downloading it again, please. Press reload the page. Your browser may
be looking at the old copy.
- Jed
Mark--
I will.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 11:13 PM
Subject: RE: Replications. Formerly [Vo]:LENR a gateway into the theory of
everything.
Bob, you need to watch The Matrix!
-mark
From:
Please do and tell fellow Vorts what you thought of it...
-m
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Bob Cook wrote:
Mark--
I will.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint
javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('zeropo...@charter.net')
Cravens Letts reviewed 167 papers and came up with 4 criteria that
correlate excess heat.
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NagelDJproceeding.pdf
Page 71
The Enabling Criteria of Electrochemical Heat: Beyond
Reasonable Doubt
Dennis Cravens
1
and Dennis Letts
2
1
Amridge University Box 1317
I should probably avoid comment in this tread as the discussion includes
more physics science than I even come close to understand. However, I have
some experience from funding new businesses. I think I can provide somewhat
of another viewpoint because of that.
It goes for everything in life it
Kevin, if you read my book (The science of low energy nuclear reaction), you
will find the data set on which this paper was based.
Ed Storms
On Mar 10, 2014, at 1:53 PM, Kevin O'Malley wrote:
Cravens Letts reviewed 167 papers and came up with 4 criteria that
correlate excess heat.
This is good advice, Lennart. But let me carry your analogy further. In this
case, the beautiful girl has the reputation for being a slut. So, not only must
she sell her beauty but also has to show she can be trusted. How is this done
when the people who spread the false rumor are still at
Ed,
Maybe you turned my analogy a little but I am prepared to go along with
that. Yes, I can see it is uphill.
However, that makes it absolutely necessary to adhere to all five steps.
First you have to reapply the lipstick. Remove the vulgar and tell it all
to a more subtle lipstick.
Then you need
Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJtallyofcol.pdf
This file is corrupted. At least for me...
That's not good. Try again. I will upload a new copy.
This question is nebulous, even somewhat meaningless, because it is hard to
count experiments.
From Jed:
...
Storms pre-tested 92 cathodes. He found 4 that passed all tests, and he
ran
a full cold fusion experiment on those 4. They all produced robust heat
repeatedly. So, was that 92 tests, or was it 4? Was the success rate 4%,
or 100%? Those question are silly. It is what it
Good question, Steven. The answer is no. The reason for this answer comes from
the inability to identify and measure all the variables that influence the LENR
process. In fact, until recently I did not know which variables were important.
I can now identify the important variables, but money
OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote:
I apologize up front if this seems an ignorant question to ask at this late
hour, but did Storms learn enough about the unique makeup of the four
successful cathodes to acquire a fairly good idea as to how to go about
building
Jed, the procedures you and we describe improve the chance of creating a
working cathode but this does not make it 100%. McKubre also had good success,
but only as long as he used Pd from a particular source. Other people have had
the same experience. The source and the treatment are both
Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Jed, the procedures you and we describe improve the chance of creating a
working cathode but this does not make it 100%.
In other words, it is the pre-modern trial-and-error method of developing
technology. It is akin to how ancient people figured out
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
if someone were to use these methods to manufacture 50 working cells
which were then used by researchers to find a theory. That would put the
research on a more scientific basis.
There have been hundreds if not
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
There have been hundreds if not thousands of working cells. Where are
they?
Most of the ones I know of were used up in destructive testing. As Mike
Melich put it, what we do to these cathodes would make the angels weep.
FP sent all of theirs back to
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
There have been hundreds if not thousands of working cells. Where are
they?
Most of the ones I know of were used up in destructive testing. As Mike
Melich put it, what we do
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
The point being that even if someone did come up with 50 working cells
it wouldn't be adequate to find a theory.
It would be necessary but perhaps not sufficient. I do not see how people
will come up with a theory without data, and without experiments.
I wrote:
Testing cells that do not produce heat is not much help.
It can be a little helpful. It is the process of elimination. You may be
able to rule out various hypotheses.
- Jed
Clearly what's needed is a process by which working cells can be created
with some degree of reliability, even if only 0.01%.
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I wrote:
Testing cells that do not produce heat is not much help.
It can be a little
Let me expand on my comment:
The economics of cold fusion research are constrained by the cost of
testing cathodes. We know that the original experiments did not use
sophisticated techniques to produce the cathodes and the cathodes used a
very tiny amount of Pd. The cost was not in the cathode
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
Clearly what's needed is a process by which working cells can be created
with some degree of reliability, even if only 0.01%.
Reliability is far better than 0.01%! It have never been that low, for any
major researcher I know.
They are doing a lot better
this presentation at ICCF18 have a part on their work about identifiying
crystallography condition
https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/handle/10355/36833
they made a less detailed presentation for ICCF15
anyone with an honest brain understand that if you cannot replicate an
experiment for sure,
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
The cost was not in the cathode -- it was in getting the electrochemistry
and the diagnostics right.
You do have to be good at electrochemistry. A lot of the early
electrochemistry was like tuning a piano with a sledgehammer.
The diagnostics can
In addition to destructive analysis, the cell eventually dies. LENR has a
limited life. In addition, once a cell works, finding out what can cause an
increase or decrease is important, which eventually destroys the effect. The
data is hen provided in papers, hundreds of which are now available.
A project with complete lack of funding. Zero dollars in the sense of
MFMP could make better progress if they would focus not on the calorimetry
or gamma-ray detection or tritium detection or mass-spectroscopy sufficient
to discriminate He from D2 (ALL of which are diagnostics) -- but rather
on
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:
I imagine no A-Bomb ever failed miserably ?
Some: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fizzle_(nuclear_test)
fascinating... (I suspected bomb could fail, as everything can fail
miserably)
So they even know what is lack of reproducibility...
why do they ignore it ?
dogmatism?
2014-03-09 21:25 GMT+01:00 Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com:
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Alain Sepeda
Hi Ed,
Based on what little I have been able to comprehend, I get the sense that
that learning how to create appropriate surface topologies, (most likely at
the nano-scale) may ultimately turn out to play a crucial role in igniting
reliably consistent reactions.
If creating appropriate
On Mar 9, 2014, at 4:15 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote:
Hi Ed,
Based on what little I have been able to comprehend, I get the sense that
that learning how to create appropriate surface topologies, (most likely at
the nano-scale) may ultimately turn out to play a crucial
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
Given your absolutist declaration about complete lack of funding. Zero
dollars you clearly don't consider the approach being taken by MFMP to be
valid no matter what they do but I disagree.
MFMP has a little money which they provided themselves, plus
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
Given your absolutist declaration about complete lack of funding. Zero
dollars you clearly don't consider the approach being taken by MFMP to be
valid no matter what they do but
I sed:
I have instead wondered if we might eventually learn to employ laser
technology to construct the correct kinds of surface topology to enhance
the CF/LENR effect - perhaps in a similar manner as how lasers are
currently being used to carve tiny micro pits onto the surface of
Steven wrote:
| Do we currently possess appropriate technology that could, for example,
allow us to cut grooves
| and valleys in the target surface material on an appropriate
nano-scale? I realize nano-scale means
| working with structures as small as at the atomic scale.
On Mar 9, 2014, at 5:02 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote:
I sed:
I have instead wondered if we might eventually learn to employ laser
technology to construct the correct kinds of surface topology to enhance
the CF/LENR effect – perhaps in a similar manner as how lasers are
Jed:
You say that he effect has been replicated hundreds of times. Where can
a skeptic go to check on these replications?
As far as I can tell, when Ed ran 92 experiments and got 4 cathodes to
work, he replicated the PFAHE 4 times. I recently saw some reference to 50
cathodes, which was about
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
They need an SEM and other expensive toys to do an analysis of the metal
before and after. Without that they are flying blind.
Before and after _what_?
Before and after the cold fusion test. To see what changes occurred in the
metal, and to correlate
Jed, this may seem unconventional, but has a crowd-sourcing approach been
considered?
I know of at least one scientific program -- small, admittedly -- that is being
crowd-funded. A LENR proposal would appeal more broadly, I think, and might be
able to raise adequate research funding.
A
I can tell you from first hand experience that SEM analysis is MUCH harder
than it sounds. I have had access to a good, but not great SEM for
analysis of my powders. Features at the nanoscale simply were not
resolve-able with that SEM. Perhaps with the world's finest SEM, you might
be able to
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
They need an SEM and other expensive toys to do an analysis of the metal
before and after. Without that they are flying blind.
Before and after _what_?
Before and after the
It might be a good idea to have a Mass Spec machine that can analyze isotopic
fractions more than a SEM which is hard to use on local nano systems that may
have reacted.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: James Bowery
To: vortex-l
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:43 PM
Subject:
Mark--
As Jones said a week or so ago about SPP, we are again meeting in Alice's
rabbit hole.
I thought engineering a system might work better than relying on chance to form
the topology for LENR. My blog
Saturday, March 01, 2014 10:10 AM suggests a manufacturing idea not unlike
yours.
Bob stated:
“… we are again meeting in Alice's rabbit hole.”
Wrong movie Bob, think Matrices!
The Blue pill or the Red pill?
;-)
-Mark
From: Bob Cook [mailto:frobertc...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 7:09 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Replications. Formerly
IMHO, LENR engineering must go in the other direction; toward the
production of randomness. Outside of the nano-hairs on the micro particles,
the engineering in the NiH reactor is an exercise in random particle
production.
As I have posted repeatedly, the key to developing an active reaction is
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Ironically. the longer people wait to bring serious funding into the
effort, the more basic ideas will become public knowledge and unavailable
for patent protection. Eventually, only the lawyers and China will make
Eric--
This blog may effect your prognosis to come true faster. That would be a boon
to humanity..
FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: Eric Walker
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: Replications. Formerly
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 10:53 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote:
Bob stated:
... we are again meeting in Alice's rabbit hole.
Wrong movie Bob, think Matrices!
The Blue pill or the Red pill?
;-)
-Mark
One could argue it is the same movie, since The Matrix makes some
Harry--
I do not know about the blue pill or the red pill--I'm showing my age.
However, given the choice between blue and red pills , I always choose the red
ones, since they are easier to see when I drop them on the floor from my pill
box. I typically don't eat blue things.
Bob
-
Bob,
Morpheus says to Neo in the movie The Matrix (1999):
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take
the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe
whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in
Wonderland and I show you how
How many times has the Pons-Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect (PFAHE) been
replicated?
Ed Storms says that there are 153 peer reviewed papers that replicate the
Pons-Fleischmann Anomalous Heat
Kevin wrote:
| http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJtallyofcol.pdf
|This file is corrupted. At least for me...
FYI: If you Right Click on your URL Link above, and select, “Save Target As...”
or “Save Link As” (it really depends on your Web Browser), wait until the file
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