Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

No. If one wanted to write a clean-room implementation of WebObjects' APIs, that is exactly what the decision in 2014 spoke to. So, for those of us in the US, that decision said we could not implement something which implemented the APIs.

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

I think a clean-room implementation was probably always defendable, however, no one that I know is doing that. Looking at de-compiled source isn’t “clean”. :P -Lon On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Ray Kiddy wrote: > > Well, Google just won their case against Oracle. I am

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Well, Google just won their case against Oracle. I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I think that this means a clean-room re-implementation is legally doable. Just saying. - ray On 5/3/16 8:19 AM, Hugi Thordarson wrote: Hi all. We probably all know that WO's been practically

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

On May 12, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Paul Yu wrote: > Doesn’t Project WOnder already infringe on Apple copyrighted APIs? wonder/Utilities/NSFoundation and all the com.webobjects stuff overridden to fix bugs in WO. We all live on borrowed time. I wonder if extending an Oracle class

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

While you are testing things like this, you could verify that gasoline vapours are flammable as well. :-P On 2016-05-12, 9:36 AM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of Jean Pierre Malrieu"

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

No. And I would never base my solutions on (nor sell my customers) anything based on a legally ambiguous product. Doing so is amazingly irresponsible. > On 12. maí 2016, at 16:36, Jean Pierre Malrieu wrote: > > Yes, sure. But is there a way to test Apple’s willingness to

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Do we think that Apple, the Largest Corporation in the world, will press an issue with a bunch of small companies using derived work of a product they abandoned? What is the negative publicity cost to them? What is the positive financial value to them? How much will it cost Apple just to

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Yes, sure. But is there a way to test Apple’s willingness to legally respond to an infringement of their copyright? > Le 12 mai 2016 à 18:26, Hugi Thordarson a écrit : > > Legally, no. Copyright still applies to abandonware. Whatever the way forward > is, we can’t use WO

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Legally, no. Copyright still applies to abandonware. Whatever the way forward is, we can’t use WO code. - hugi > On 12. maí 2016, at 16:21, Jean Pierre Malrieu wrote: > > Apple will probably never open source WO. > But does the fact that WO is officially « AbandonWare »

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Apple will probably never open source WO. But does the fact that WO is officially « AbandonWare » have consequences for the TB initiative? JPM > Le 3 mai 2016 à 19:13, Hugi Thordarson a écrit : > > I think it’s good news—at least much better than the >

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

On 2016-05-05, 4:46 PM, "Pascal Robert" wrote: > >> Le 5 mai 2016 à 19:32, Chuck Hill a écrit : >> >> A after a night with Hugi on St. Denis a hospital ER might be a better >> choice than Au Pied. :-P My wife has already lectured me to behave. > >If

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Yes I meant put behind in a permanent way. > On May 5, 2016, at 5:29 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: > > Didn’t you turn green and start going into shock the last time you tried that? > > > > >> On 2016-05-05, 5:26 PM, "David Holt" wrote: >> >> There is

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Didn’t you turn green and start going into shock the last time you tried that? On 2016-05-05, 5:26 PM, "David Holt" wrote: >There is nothing a meal of fois gras everything can't help you put behind. > > > >> On May 5, 2016, at 4:46 PM, Pascal Robert

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

There is nothing a meal of fois gras everything can't help you put behind. > On May 5, 2016, at 4:46 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: > > >> Le 5 mai 2016 à 19:32, Chuck Hill a écrit : >> >> A after a night with Hugi on St. Denis a hospital ER might be a

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

> Le 5 mai 2016 à 19:32, Chuck Hill a écrit : > > A after a night with Hugi on St. Denis a hospital ER might be a better choice > than Au Pied. :-P My wife has already lectured me to behave. If the alcohol can make me forget the horrible year that I have, I’m in! > >

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

A after a night with Hugi on St. Denis a hospital ER might be a better choice than Au Pied. :-P My wife has already lectured me to behave. On 2016-05-05, 4:21 PM, "Pascal Robert" wrote: >Hugi. St-Denis Street. Perfect matchup! > >How, I guess it’s time to make a

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

I suppose with Hugi presenting you will have to go with a lottery system for WOWODC tickets. Pascal should get a good cut from the global advertising for all his work. Cheers from another proud Icelander, Baiss > On May 5, 2016, at 4:21 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: > > Hugi.

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Hugi. St-Denis Street. Perfect matchup! How, I guess it’s time to make a reservation at the Pied de cochon. > Just don’t go out drinking whisky with him. Trust me on that one... > > > > > On 2016-05-05, 7:11 AM, > "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of >

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Hugi, Pardon me… I meant that in a respectful way. Cheers, Flavio > On 05/05/2016, at 12:40, Hugi Thordarson wrote: > >> It seems I’ll have to buy me a ticket to the next WOWODC. I sure have to >> shake hands with the most famous nagger in WO’s history! :-) > > Get a

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Hi Hugi, Now, why did you have to go kill WO. Couldn't you just have let it live its peaceful life in retirement :-) It's been a long time. Hope you are all well. -Cail Sent from my iPhone > On May 4, 2016, at 19:30, Hugi Thordarson wrote: > > Well, f***… Wouldn’t you

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Just don’t go out drinking whisky with him. Trust me on that one... On 2016-05-05, 7:11 AM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of Flavio Donadio" wrote: >It

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

> It seems I’ll have to buy me a ticket to the next WOWODC. I sure have to > shake hands with the most famous nagger in WO’s history! :-) Get a haircut. Is that gum!? - hugi ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

It seems I’ll have to buy me a ticket to the next WOWODC. I sure have to shake hands with the most famous nagger in WO’s history! :-) Cheers, Flavio > On 04/05/2016, at 22:08, Ramsey Gurley wrote: > > Now he’s on CNN > >

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

t; >> - hugi >> >> >> >>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill <ch...@gevityinc.com> wrote: >>> >>> The Viking Tradition lives on! >>> >>> >>> From: David LeBer <dleber_wo...@codeferous.com> >>>

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

acti...@lists.apple.com >>> <webobjects-dev-bounces+probert=macti...@lists.apple.com> de la part de >>> Ricardo Parada <rpar...@mac.com> >>> Envoyé : 4 mai 2016 13:53:31 >>> À : Chuck Hill >>> Cc : WebObjects-Dev >>> Objet : Re:

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

s.apple.com> de la part de >> Ricardo Parada <rpar...@mac.com> >> Envoyé : 4 mai 2016 13:53:31 >> À : Chuck Hill >> Cc : WebObjects-Dev >> Objet : Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple >> >> >> I see people disappe

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

rt=macti...@lists.apple.com>> de la part >> de Ricardo Parada <rpar...@mac.com <mailto:rpar...@mac.com>> >> Envoyé : 4 mai 2016 13:53:31 >> À : Chuck Hill >> Cc : WebObjects-Dev >> Objet : Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple >>

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

> On May 4, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: > > Looks like most WO devs in North America are working directly or indirectly > for Apple. That would explain why we have more Europeans coming to WOWODC > than people near. Maybe I should create a non-public WO

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

nces+probert=macti...@lists.apple.com> de la part de > Ricardo Parada <rpar...@mac.com> > Envoyé : 4 mai 2016 13:53:31 > À : Chuck Hill > Cc : WebObjects-Dev > Objet : Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple > > > I see people disappear from this list ev

RE: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

ert=macti...@lists.apple.com> de la part de Ricardo Parada <rpar...@mac.com> Envoyé : 4 mai 2016 13:53:31 À : Chuck Hill Cc : WebObjects-Dev Objet : Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple I see people disappear from this list every time they are hired by Apple. I just notice

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

ednesday, May 4, 2016 at 10:24 AM > To: David LeBer <dleber_wo...@codeferous.com> > Cc: Chuck Hill <ch...@gevityinc.com>, WebObjects-Dev > <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple > > Hugi, you’re famous now :D &

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

f he will still associate with us now! > > From: Ramsey Gurley <rgur...@smarthealth.com> > Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 10:24 AM > To: David LeBer <dleber_wo...@codeferous.com> > Cc: Chuck Hill <ch...@gevityinc.com>, WebObjects-Dev > <webobjects-dev@lists.ap

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill <ch...@gevityinc.com> wrote: >> >> The Viking Tradition lives on! >> >> >> From: David LeBer <dleber_wo...@codeferous.com> >> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM >> To: Chuck Hill <ch...@gevity

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

ill <ch...@gevityinc.com<mailto:ch...@gevityinc.com>>, WebObjects-Dev <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com<mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple Hugi, you’re famous now :D http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-officially

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Well, f***… Wouldn’t you know. I’m the man that killed WO. - hugi > On 4. maí 2016, at 17:24, Ramsey Gurley wrote: > > Hugi, you’re famous now :D > > http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-officially-discontinues-webobjects-2016-5 > > > On May 3, 2016, at 4:20 PM,

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Hugi, you’re famous now :D http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-officially-discontinues-webobjects-2016-5 On May 3, 2016, at 4:20 PM, David LeBer wrote: > Yeah, I was surprised by that too. > > Apple rarely gives definitive statements on anything, let alone a

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

n, obviously. >>>>>> >>>>>> And we Viking are a misunderstood, peaceful people. Apart from sending >>>>>> angry emails to corporate executives, these days we mostly conduct our >>>>>> coastal raids through Panamian law fir

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

> On May 4, 2016, at 6:35 AM, Hugi Thordarson wrote: >> >> Also I can't imagine working on the server side without something like >> EOF/WebObjects. > > Yeah… I’ve made more than quite a few attempts at using them #different > technologies" and I’m now quite sure that I’d

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

ch easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and >>> running around raping and pillaging. >>> >>> - hugi >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill <ch...@gevityinc.com> wrote: >>>> >>&g

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Envoyé de mon iPhone > Le 4 mai 2016 à 10:01, Musall Maik a écrit : > > >>> Am 04.05.2016 um 15:46 schrieb Pascal Robert : >>> > We already have a clean room reimplementation of EOF—it’s called Cayenne > and I’m now using it in all of our

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

> Am 04.05.2016 um 15:46 schrieb Pascal Robert : >> We already have a clean room reimplementation of EOF—it’s called Cayenne and I’m now using it in all of our projects. We just need to figure out what to do with the presentation layer (WO). >>> >>> I think

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

rate executives, these days we mostly conduct our >>>>> coastal raids through Panamian law firms using money stored in offshore >>>>> companies. It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and >>>>> running around raping and pillaging.

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

took four emails before I was contacted. He’s a >>>>> lot less stubborn, obviously. >>>>> >>>>> And we Viking are a misunderstood, peaceful people. Apart from sending >>>>> angry emails to corporate executives, these days we mostly conduct our >>

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

ey stored in offshore >>>> companies. It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and >>>> running around raping and pillaging. >>>> >>>> - hugi >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 3. maí 2016, at

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

astal raids through Panamian law firms using money stored in offshore >>>> companies. It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and >>>> running around raping and pillaging. >>>> >>>> - hugi >>>> >>>> >>&g

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

.com >>> <mailto:dleber_wo...@codeferous.com>> >>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM >>> To: Chuck Hill <ch...@gevityinc.com <mailto:ch...@gevityinc.com>> >>> Cc: WebObjects-Dev <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com >>> <mailto:webobjects-de

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

>>> >>> >>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill <ch...@gevityinc.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> The Viking Tradition lives on! >>>> >>>> >>>> From: David LeBer <dleber_wo...@codeferous.com> >>>

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

ote: >>> >>> The Viking Tradition lives on! >>> >>> >>> From: David LeBer <dleber_wo...@codeferous.com> >>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM >>> To: Chuck Hill <ch...@gevityinc.com> >>> Cc: WebObjects

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

e: >> >> The Viking Tradition lives on! >> >> >> From: David LeBer <dleber_wo...@codeferous.com> >> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM >> To: Chuck Hill <ch...@gevityinc.com> >> Cc: WebObjects-Dev <webobjects-dev@lists.apple.c

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

lt;webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple > > Yeah, I was surprised by that too. > > Apple rarely gives definitive statements on anything, let alone a long dead > and forgotten product ;) > > -- > D > &

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

e.com<mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple Yeah, I was surprised by that too. Apple rarely gives definitive statements on anything, let alone a long dead and forgotten product ;) -- D On May 3, 2016 at 7:11:05 PM, Chuck

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Yeah, I was surprised by that too. Apple rarely gives definitive statements on anything, let alone a long dead and forgotten product ;) --  D On May 3, 2016 at 7:11:05 PM, Chuck Hill (ch...@gevityinc.com) wrote: I am surprised that Hugi got a clear statement from Apple. That must have taken

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

I am surprised that Hugi got a clear statement from Apple. That must have taken some persistence! “Frank, this damn Hugi guy keeps bugging us every year, get rid of him!” :-) On 2016-05-03, 4:04 PM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of Pascal Robert"

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

> Le 3 mai 2016 à 12:47, Flavio Donadio a écrit : > > Hugi, > > > That’s bad news, but it’s exactly what we expected, in a certain way. The > silence and lack of updates for such a long time were telling us the truth, > although we wouldn’t accept it — there had to be

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Craig was the EOF manager back in the day. Now that WO is officially abandoned by Apple, the questions for me are: What is the logical conclusion of pushing WOnder beyond WebObjects? What does that mean in the end? Will we always have to carry around the legacy WO frameworks? When does the

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

> On May 3, 2016, at 10:31 AM, Ricardo Parada wrote: > > I Wonder if Craig Federighi has any love for WebObjects in his heart. I mean > he was very involved with EOF and WebObjects. Perhaps a Swifty WebObjects > for Linux in the distant future using Swift 4's property

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

I Wonder if Craig Federighi has any love for WebObjects in his heart. I mean he was very involved with EOF and WebObjects. Perhaps a Swifty WebObjects for Linux in the distant future using Swift 4's property behaviors to implement object/array faults. :-) > On May 3, 2016, at 1:13 PM,

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

I think it’s good news—at least much better than the kind-of-certain-but-not-really uncertainty we’ve had for the past decade or so. And I don’t think we should be holding our breath waiting for Apple to open source WO. As awesome as that would be, though :). - hugi > On 3. maí 2016, at

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Hugi, That’s bad news, but it’s exactly what we expected, in a certain way. The silence and lack of updates for such a long time were telling us the truth, although we wouldn’t accept it — there had to be a final word, straight from the horse’s mouth! I guess we have it now. So, they say WO

Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Well…. never say never!!! ;-) > On 3 May 2016, at 16:19, Hugi Thordarson wrote: > > Hi all. > > We probably all know that WO's been practically dead to Apple for a long > time, but unfortunately Apple has refused to state so officially (at least I > don't recall there

WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple

Hi all. We probably all know that WO's been practically dead to Apple for a long time, but unfortunately Apple has refused to state so officially (at least I don't recall there being an official statement). Anyhow… In the past years I've regularly sent letters to Tim Cook, asking about the