No. If one wanted to write a clean-room implementation of WebObjects'
APIs, that is exactly what the decision in 2014 spoke to. So, for those
of us in the US, that decision said we could not implement something
which implemented the APIs.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/oracles-java
I think a clean-room implementation was probably always defendable,
however, no one that I know is doing that. Looking at de-compiled source
isn’t “clean”. :P
-Lon
On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Ray Kiddy wrote:
>
> Well, Google just won their case against Oracle. I am not a lawyer, nor do
>
Well, Google just won their case against Oracle. I am not a lawyer, nor
do I play one on TV, but I think that this means a clean-room
re-implementation is legally doable. Just saying.
- ray
On 5/3/16 8:19 AM, Hugi Thordarson wrote:
Hi all.
We probably all know that WO's been practically d
On May 12, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Paul Yu wrote:
> Doesn’t Project WOnder already infringe on Apple copyrighted APIs?
wonder/Utilities/NSFoundation and all the com.webobjects stuff overridden to
fix bugs in WO. We all live on borrowed time.
I wonder if extending an Oracle class through inheritance
While you are testing things like this, you could verify that gasoline vapours
are flammable as well. :-P
On 2016-05-12, 9:36 AM,
"webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of Jean
Pierre Malrieu" wrote:
>Yes, sure. But is there a way to test Apple’s willingness t
No. And I would never base my solutions on (nor sell my customers) anything
based on a legally ambiguous product. Doing so is amazingly irresponsible.
> On 12. maí 2016, at 16:36, Jean Pierre Malrieu wrote:
>
> Yes, sure. But is there a way to test Apple’s willingness to legally respond
> to
Do we think that Apple, the Largest Corporation in the world, will press an
issue with a bunch of small companies using derived work of a product they
abandoned?
What is the negative publicity cost to them?
What is the positive financial value to them?
How much will it cost Apple just to assig
Yes, sure. But is there a way to test Apple’s willingness to legally respond to
an infringement of their copyright?
> Le 12 mai 2016 à 18:26, Hugi Thordarson a écrit :
>
> Legally, no. Copyright still applies to abandonware. Whatever the way forward
> is, we can’t use WO code.
>
> - hugi
>
>
Legally, no. Copyright still applies to abandonware. Whatever the way forward
is, we can’t use WO code.
- hugi
> On 12. maí 2016, at 16:21, Jean Pierre Malrieu wrote:
>
> Apple will probably never open source WO.
> But does the fact that WO is officially « AbandonWare » have consequences for
Apple will probably never open source WO.
But does the fact that WO is officially « AbandonWare » have consequences for
the TB initiative?
JPM
> Le 3 mai 2016 à 19:13, Hugi Thordarson a écrit :
>
> I think it’s good news—at least much better than the
> kind-of-certain-but-not-really uncertain
On 2016-05-05, 4:46 PM, "Pascal Robert" wrote:
>
>> Le 5 mai 2016 à 19:32, Chuck Hill a écrit :
>>
>> A after a night with Hugi on St. Denis a hospital ER might be a better
>> choice than Au Pied. :-P My wife has already lectured me to behave.
>
>If the alcohol can make me forget the horri
Yes I meant put behind in a permanent way.
> On May 5, 2016, at 5:29 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:
>
> Didn’t you turn green and start going into shock the last time you tried that?
>
>
>
>
>> On 2016-05-05, 5:26 PM, "David Holt" wrote:
>>
>> There is nothing a meal of fois gras everything can't h
Didn’t you turn green and start going into shock the last time you tried that?
On 2016-05-05, 5:26 PM, "David Holt" wrote:
>There is nothing a meal of fois gras everything can't help you put behind.
>
>
>
>> On May 5, 2016, at 4:46 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Le 5 mai 2016 à 19:32,
There is nothing a meal of fois gras everything can't help you put behind.
> On May 5, 2016, at 4:46 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
>
>
>> Le 5 mai 2016 à 19:32, Chuck Hill a écrit :
>>
>> A after a night with Hugi on St. Denis a hospital ER might be a better
>> choice than Au Pied. :-P My wif
> Le 5 mai 2016 à 19:32, Chuck Hill a écrit :
>
> A after a night with Hugi on St. Denis a hospital ER might be a better choice
> than Au Pied. :-P My wife has already lectured me to behave.
If the alcohol can make me forget the horrible year that I have, I’m in!
>
>
>
> On 2016-05-05, 4
A after a night with Hugi on St. Denis a hospital ER might be a better choice
than Au Pied. :-P My wife has already lectured me to behave.
On 2016-05-05, 4:21 PM, "Pascal Robert" wrote:
>Hugi. St-Denis Street. Perfect matchup!
>
>How, I guess it’s time to make a reservation at the Pied de
I suppose with Hugi presenting you will have to go with a lottery system for
WOWODC tickets.
Pascal should get a good cut from the global advertising for all his work.
Cheers from another proud Icelander,
Baiss
> On May 5, 2016, at 4:21 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
>
> Hugi. St-Denis Street. Perf
Hugi. St-Denis Street. Perfect matchup!
How, I guess it’s time to make a reservation at the Pied de cochon.
> Just don’t go out drinking whisky with him. Trust me on that one...
>
>
>
>
> On 2016-05-05, 7:11 AM,
> "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of
> F
Hugi,
Pardon me… I meant that in a respectful way.
Cheers,
Flavio
> On 05/05/2016, at 12:40, Hugi Thordarson wrote:
>
>> It seems I’ll have to buy me a ticket to the next WOWODC. I sure have to
>> shake hands with the most famous nagger in WO’s history! :-)
>
> Get a haircut. Is that gum!?
Hi Hugi,
Now, why did you have to go kill WO. Couldn't you just have let it live its
peaceful life in retirement :-)
It's been a long time. Hope you are all well.
-Cail
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 4, 2016, at 19:30, Hugi Thordarson wrote:
>
> Well, f***… Wouldn’t you know. I’m the man tha
Just don’t go out drinking whisky with him. Trust me on that one...
On 2016-05-05, 7:11 AM,
"webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of Flavio
Donadio" wrote:
>It seems I’ll have to buy me a ticket to the next WOWODC. I sure have to shake
>hands with the most
> It seems I’ll have to buy me a ticket to the next WOWODC. I sure have to
> shake hands with the most famous nagger in WO’s history! :-)
Get a haircut. Is that gum!?
- hugi
___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-
It seems I’ll have to buy me a ticket to the next WOWODC. I sure have to shake
hands with the most famous nagger in WO’s history! :-)
Cheers,
Flavio
> On 04/05/2016, at 22:08, Ramsey Gurley wrote:
>
> Now he’s on CNN
>
> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/04/technology/steve-jobs-apple-webobjects/
;>
>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill wrote:
>>>
>>> The Viking Tradition lives on!
>>>
>>>
>>> From: David LeBer
>>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM
>>> To: Chuck Hill
>>> Cc: WebObjects-Dev
>>&
t; I see people disappear from this list every time they are hired by Apple. I
>>> just noticed Kieran has not been active in the list and his linked in
>>> profile says he is now at Apple.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> On May 4, 2016, at 1:46 PM, Chuck Hill wr
re working directly or indirectly
>> for Apple. That would explain why we have more Europeans coming to WOWODC
>> than people near.
>>
>> De : webobjects-dev-bounces+probert=macti...@lists.apple.com
>> de la part de
>> Ricardo Parada
>> Envoyé :
ssociate with us now!
>>>
>>> From: Ramsey Gurley >> <mailto:rgur...@smarthealth.com>>
>>> Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 10:24 AM
>>> To: David LeBer >> <mailto:dleber_wo...@codeferous.com>>
>>> Cc: Chuck Hill mailto:ch...@
> On May 4, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Pascal Robert wrote:
>
> Looks like most WO devs in North America are working directly or indirectly
> for Apple. That would explain why we have more Europeans coming to WOWODC
> than people near.
Maybe I should create a non-public WO developer jobs mailing list
de
> Ricardo Parada
> Envoyé : 4 mai 2016 13:53:31
> À : Chuck Hill
> Cc : WebObjects-Dev
> Objet : Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
>
>
> I see people disappear from this list every time they are hired by Apple. I
> just noticed Kieran has not been activ
Envoyé : 4 mai 2016 13:53:31
À : Chuck Hill
Cc : WebObjects-Dev
Objet : Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
I see people disappear from this list every time they are hired by Apple. I
just noticed Kieran has not been active in the list and his linked in profile
says he is now at
4 AM
> To: David LeBer
> Cc: Chuck Hill , WebObjects-Dev
>
> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
>
> Hugi, you’re famous now :D
>
> http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-officially-discontinues-webobjects-2016-5
>
>
> On May 3, 2016, at 4:20
th us now!
>
> From: Ramsey Gurley
> Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 10:24 AM
> To: David LeBer
> Cc: Chuck Hill , WebObjects-Dev
>
> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
>
> Hugi, you’re famous now :D
>
> http://www.businessinsider.com/app
016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill wrote:
>>
>> The Viking Tradition lives on!
>>
>>
>> From: David LeBer
>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM
>> To: Chuck Hill
>> Cc: WebObjects-Dev
>> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
>
lto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>>
Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
Hugi, you’re famous now :D
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-officially-discontinues-webobjects-2016-5
On May 3, 2016, at 4:20 PM, David LeBer
mailto:dleber_wo...@codeferous.com>> wrote:
Yea
Well, f***… Wouldn’t you know. I’m the man that killed WO.
- hugi
> On 4. maí 2016, at 17:24, Ramsey Gurley wrote:
>
> Hugi, you’re famous now :D
>
> http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-officially-discontinues-webobjects-2016-5
>
>
> On May 3, 2016, at 4:20 PM, David LeBer wrote:
>
>> Ye
Hugi, you’re famous now :D
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-officially-discontinues-webobjects-2016-5
On May 3, 2016, at 4:20 PM, David LeBer wrote:
> Yeah, I was surprised by that too.
>
> Apple rarely gives definitive statements on anything, let alone a long dead
> and forgotten produc
>> e-mails to sjobs on the subject trough the years without receiving a
>>>>>> reply. But to Tim’s credit, it only took four emails before I was
>>>>>> contacted. He’s a lot less stubborn, obviously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And we Vik
> On May 4, 2016, at 6:35 AM, Hugi Thordarson wrote:
>>
>> Also I can't imagine working on the server side without something like
>> EOF/WebObjects.
>
> Yeah… I’ve made more than quite a few attempts at using them #different
> technologies" and I’m now quite sure that I’d rather spend my tim
>> We already have a clean room reimplementation of EOF—it’s called Cayenne
>> and I’m now using it in all of our projects. We just need to figure out
>> what to do with the presentation layer (WO).
>
> I think that is great for new projects. I was thinking of something API
ning around raping and pillaging.
>>>
>>> - hugi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Viking Tradition lives on!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Dav
Envoyé de mon iPhone
> Le 4 mai 2016 à 10:01, Musall Maik a écrit :
>
>
>>> Am 04.05.2016 um 15:46 schrieb Pascal Robert :
>>>
> We already have a clean room reimplementation of EOF—it’s called Cayenne
> and I’m now using it in all of our projects. We just need to figure out
>
> Am 04.05.2016 um 15:46 schrieb Pascal Robert :
>>
We already have a clean room reimplementation of EOF—it’s called Cayenne
and I’m now using it in all of our projects. We just need to figure out
what to do with the presentation layer (WO).
>>>
>>> I think that is great for new
gt; to Tim’s credit, it only took four emails before I was contacted. He’s a
>>>>> lot less stubborn, obviously.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we Viking are a misunderstood, peaceful people. Apart from sending
>>>>> angry emails to corporate executives, these day
;> lot less stubborn, obviously.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we Viking are a misunderstood, peaceful people. Apart from sending
>>>>> angry emails to corporate executives, these days we mostly conduct our
>>>>> coastal raids through Panamian
offshore
>>>> companies. It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and
>>>> running around raping and pillaging.
>>>>
>>>> - hugi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Ch
red in offshore
>>>> companies. It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and
>>>> running around raping and pillaging.
>>>>
>>>> - hugi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22
016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill >> <mailto:ch...@gevityinc.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The Viking Tradition lives on!
>>>
>>>
>>> From: David LeBer >> <mailto:dleber_wo...@codeferous.com>>
>>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM
ur
>>> coastal raids through Panamian law firms using money stored in offshore
>>> companies. It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and
>>> running around raping and pillaging.
>>>
>>> - hugi
>>>
>>>
>>>
&
ed in offshore companies.
>> It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and running around
>> raping and pillaging.
>>
>> - hugi
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill wrote:
>>>
>>> The Viking Traditi
ives on!
>>
>>
>> From: David LeBer
>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM
>> To: Chuck Hill
>> Cc: WebObjects-Dev
>> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
>>
>> Yeah, I was surprised by that too.
>>
>> A
n 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill wrote:
>
> The Viking Tradition lives on!
>
>
> From: David LeBer
> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM
> To: Chuck Hill
> Cc: WebObjects-Dev
> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
>
> Yeah, I was surp
The Viking Tradition lives on!
From: David LeBer
mailto:dleber_wo...@codeferous.com>>
Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM
To: Chuck Hill mailto:ch...@gevityinc.com>>
Cc: WebObjects-Dev
mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>>
Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead
Yeah, I was surprised by that too.
Apple rarely gives definitive statements on anything, let alone a long dead and
forgotten product ;)
--
D
On May 3, 2016 at 7:11:05 PM, Chuck Hill (ch...@gevityinc.com) wrote:
I am surprised that Hugi got a clear statement from Apple. That must have taken
s
I am surprised that Hugi got a clear statement from Apple. That must have
taken some persistence! “Frank, this damn Hugi guy keeps bugging us every
year, get rid of him!”
:-)
On 2016-05-03, 4:04 PM,
"webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of Pascal
Robert"
> Le 3 mai 2016 à 12:47, Flavio Donadio a écrit :
>
> Hugi,
>
>
> That’s bad news, but it’s exactly what we expected, in a certain way. The
> silence and lack of updates for such a long time were telling us the truth,
> although we wouldn’t accept it — there had to be a final word, straight
Craig was the EOF manager back in the day.
Now that WO is officially abandoned by Apple, the questions for me are:
What is the logical conclusion of pushing WOnder beyond WebObjects? What does
that mean in the end? Will we always have to carry around the
legacy WO frameworks? When does the o
> On May 3, 2016, at 10:31 AM, Ricardo Parada wrote:
>
> I Wonder if Craig Federighi has any love for WebObjects in his heart. I mean
> he was very involved with EOF and WebObjects. Perhaps a Swifty WebObjects
> for Linux in the distant future using Swift 4's property behaviors to
> implemen
I Wonder if Craig Federighi has any love for WebObjects in his heart. I mean he
was very involved with EOF and WebObjects. Perhaps a Swifty WebObjects for
Linux in the distant future using Swift 4's property behaviors to implement
object/array faults.
:-)
> On May 3, 2016, at 1:13 PM, Hugi
I think it’s good news—at least much better than the
kind-of-certain-but-not-really uncertainty we’ve had for the past decade or so.
And I don’t think we should be holding our breath waiting for Apple to open
source WO. As awesome as that would be, though :).
- hugi
> On 3. maí 2016, at 16:4
Hugi,
That’s bad news, but it’s exactly what we expected, in a certain way. The
silence and lack of updates for such a long time were telling us the truth,
although we wouldn’t accept it — there had to be a final word, straight from
the horse’s mouth! I guess we have it now.
So, they say WO i
Well…. never say never!!! ;-)
> On 3 May 2016, at 16:19, Hugi Thordarson wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> We probably all know that WO's been practically dead to Apple for a long
> time, but unfortunately Apple has refused to state so officially (at least I
> don't recall there being an official state
Hi all.
We probably all know that WO's been practically dead to Apple for a long time,
but unfortunately Apple has refused to state so officially (at least I don't
recall there being an official statement).
Anyhow… In the past years I've regularly sent letters to Tim Cook, asking about
the sta
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