Yep they are also being incredibly helpful with me. Thanks Softimage Team. I'm getting our IT guy to fill out the paperwork for a QFE now
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Jeremie Passerin <gerem....@gmail.com>wrote: > Good to hear that the issue has been reported. This is a big deal for us > here too. > We love Softimage referencing system a lot but are in a situation now > where animator are creating local copy of the rigs just to work around the > issue, which is obviously a big problem for us. > > The new team has impressed me with all the bug fix they did on 2014. > Seeing very old bug fixed is giving me faith in the new team. Keep up the > good work, and I'm crossing my fingers to see that one updated in the next > release ;-) > > > On 21 May 2013 05:52, ivan tay <ivansoftim...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> HI, >> >> >> Had an exchange with Enrique. This is a known issue - logged as SOFT-7029 >> - Key Referenced Parameter Slower. >> >> Thanks for bringing this up. >> >> -Ivan >> >> >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> Even with no C++ knowledge you should be able to take different routes >>> around it, just to see if the bottleneck is specifically in one of the >>> wrappers or far enough upstream. Give it a shot. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>> enriquecaball...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks raf and everyone for the advice, its really helpful. >>>> >>>> >>>> I will now reduce their ability to key scaling on the majority of the >>>> rig. I will also try to code my way around it, problem is I don't know c++ >>>> so I'm stuck with python which I doubt will be able to save me when it >>>> comes to slow keying. >>>> >>>> >>>> I did test in 2014 btw, and it is a bit faster, but its still massively >>>> slow. >>>> >>>> I've sent the scene to Autodesk, we still have a year on Subscription >>>> so hopefully they can send us a QFE >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sounds like a regression. >>>>> I've had rigs with controls in the hundreds of objects with quite a >>>>> few added properties and custom parameters, adding up to packs of >>>>> thousands >>>>> of keyframes at a pop. It's never been blazing fast, even with rig-centric >>>>> dedicated commands, but I would have been skinned alive if it took more >>>>> than a second or two to key out a couple thousand curves. >>>>> >>>>> Consider trying to write your way around it to see how pervasive it >>>>> is, and if not too far reaching possibly stop them from staring daggers at >>>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> Keying a ref model will always be slower, there's no two ways about it >>>>> when you have to deal with delta tracking rather than simply adding data >>>>> somewhere, but shouldn't be in that measure, it should be just a few >>>>> percentage points at the most. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>> enriquecaball...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> the keys are being set just by pressing the K key and the keying mode >>>>>> set to "Key all Keyable" >>>>>> >>>>>> this is the command that gets spit out >>>>>> >>>>>> Application.SaveKeyOnKeyable() >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>> enriquecaball...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks guys, >>>>>>> yep I've already sent the scene to Softimage. Its definitely a >>>>>>> Softimage 2013 Sp1 issue though and not scene related. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The parameters that the animators can key is already fairly limited >>>>>>> as I'm pretty careful with keyable parameters. but I will strip down >>>>>>> what i >>>>>>> can for now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is slow whether or not the Fcurve editor is open. Basically >>>>>>> setting a key on a gear rig referenced model with 180 objects takes 6 >>>>>>> seconds, a local model is instant. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've stripped down our workgroup to nothing but gear, same problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Really quite distressing! The animators are giving me dirty looks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>>>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Have you tried changing how the keys are set? >>>>>>>> 150 objects with the entire local transform set isn't that many >>>>>>>> curves, we have had issues but that's with thousands piled up on more >>>>>>>> thousands. >>>>>>>> Lastly, is that with the FCurve editor open or not? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suggest you send the scene to Soft if it can be packaged up. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>> enriquecaball...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> well its a gear rig so there are a fair but of custom parameters. >>>>>>>>> but not an obscene amount. And as far as I know, no parameters driven >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> ICE. although I am using the dual quaternion skinning compound for the >>>>>>>>> envelope. I've already tested with this removed and it wasnt the >>>>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have tested in 2014 and it is better, by like 30 % but its still >>>>>>>>> massively slower than it would be if the model was in Local Mode. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Seeing as how well Softimage's referenced model and Deltas work >>>>>>>>> together, it is a major reason we use Softimage here at this studio, I >>>>>>>>> would expect the speed of keyframing to be very fast on referenced >>>>>>>>> models, >>>>>>>>> it should be just as fast I dare say, otherwise its a massive hit on >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> usability. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have also tested with other rigs as well, Gear rigs, the >>>>>>>>> malcolm rig, and rigs of my own making, its a pretty major speed >>>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>>> when setting and manipulating keys on referenced models vs local >>>>>>>>> models. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As far as how many fcurves. well... A lot, its an entire rig, >>>>>>>>> its like 150 objects, and we are keying their entire srt. as the >>>>>>>>> animators >>>>>>>>> are currently blocking animation, so they key the entire character at >>>>>>>>> once. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2014 is a bit faster, but not massively so. And we don't have the >>>>>>>>> luxury of moving our pipeline to 2014 right now, our tools are >>>>>>>>> written for >>>>>>>>> 2013 at the moment and we are going through a major tools development >>>>>>>>> phase >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>>>>>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There are two issues, a regression, which Matt does a good job of >>>>>>>>>> pointing out and that should be fixed in 2014 (to my knowledge, but >>>>>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>>>>> tested), and other things we found out when a mix of ICE and custom >>>>>>>>>> parameters are involved (which is not related to ICE slow at setting >>>>>>>>>> them, >>>>>>>>>> which was addressed in 2013 already, I believe). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Jeremie Passerin < >>>>>>>>>> gerem....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I heard the same thing here, and also heard it's much faster in >>>>>>>>>>> 2014. Have you tested that ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 20 May 2013 16:20, Raffaele Fragapane < >>>>>>>>>>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> How many custom attributes and specifically some feeding into >>>>>>>>>>>> ICE do you have? >>>>>>>>>>>> And how many FCurves at a time are we talking about? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We encountered several related issues (and occasionally solved >>>>>>>>>>>> or had confirmation of them, and some QFEs that helped a lot) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Ivan >>>>>>>>>>>> <ivansoftim...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone, please excuse for typos. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 May, 2013, at 6:02 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>>>> enriquecaball...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Ivan, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Yep I do, I will send it to you in a few minutes, >>>>>>>>>>>>> just packaging up the referenced models >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:54 PM, ivan tay < >>>>>>>>>>>>> ivansoftim...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Enrique, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a scene file for this ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ivan >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Email : ivan....@nospam.autodesk.com (please remove nospam >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from email) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> enriquecaball...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry this is in softimage 2013 sp1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Enrique Caballero < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enriquecaball...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am running into a distressing problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An animator just came up to me and complained about it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being very slow to key their animation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When they select all of the controls on the rig and drag >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the keys around or simply set a key there is a fairly major >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delay. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just did some testing and verified that it is quite slow. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I made the referenced model local, and the speed of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting or manipulating keys increased quite dramatically.* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are using GEAR rigs on this project, which I've never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had an issue with before, and I don't really think its gears >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fault. Maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its something I layered ontop. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone run into this problem before? Our pipeline is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavily dependent on referenced models and I have no plans to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use local >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> models in our pipeline at all. I'm hoping that its just one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oversight that is causing this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any insight would be appreciated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Enrique >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship >>>>>>>>>>>> it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! >>>>>>>>>> Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! >>>>>>>> Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship >>>>> it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it >>> and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>> >> >> >
