if you want a level of comfort after leaving the sprinkler out of the "heat pump area", why not make sure you put a sprinkler near the closet opening, or inside the closet if you are really worried.
if it is a non-combustible enclosed area, not much is going to burn. If the H/P catches the closet on fire anyway, that is what the sprinkler is for, right next to it in the entry/hallway. scot deal excelsior fire engineering On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Greg McGahan <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't know! The point of this question is indeed the difficulty in > sorting it out. This "area" is not defined as a room, chase, shaft or > closet. It is not labeled on the drawings and it amounts to the same type of > area as a plenum under an HVAC unit except that it actually has the fan > inside the unit which is inside the area. > > There is less than 6" of clearance between the unit and the sheetrock or > concrete (depending on the wall) on 3 sides. > > I agree with NFPA, common sense says you don't need a head bas the unit is > sealed and if the fan catches on fire it has nowhere to go but into the > living area which is protected. There is no duct, nor opening to anywhere > except on the face of the unit. > > The EOR says no head, NFPA says not sure but common sense says no, and the > local AHJ, says I don't know - seems like a head in ther outside of the unit > is not going to do much. But there is nothing definitive about it IMHO. > > Greg McGahan > Operations Manager > > Living Water Fire Protection > 1160 McKenzie Road > P.O. Box 877 > Cantonment, Florida 32533 > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 7:27 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: water source heat pumps > > If it is a high rise and these "closets" are not part of a continuous > rated shaft how could you justify penetrations through the floors? > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: > > What is the construction of the space? Are there exposed wood joists? > Other > > combustible loading? Does the hatch allow a person into the space or > would > > all work on the heat pumps have to be reaching through the opening? If it > is > > an unaccessible, N/C space, would 8.14.1.2.2 (2002) apply? > > > > > > At 04:08 PM 2/13/2009, you wrote: > >> > >> A call to NFPA gets us to here: > >> > >> It doesn't fit anywhere to omit protection, but common sense would > dictate > >> that it is not required. > >> > >> He suggested we try hanging on to 8.15.1.2.1. > >> > >> Does anyone have any experience with these? > >> > >> Greg McGahan > >> Operations Manager > >> > >> Living Water Fire Protection > >> 1160 McKenzie Road > >> P.O. Box 877 > >> Cantonment, Florida 32533 > >> (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > >> [email protected] > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg > McGahan > >> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 2:45 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: RE: water source heat pumps > >> > >> Just got more info. The unit sits in a "closet" but there is NO ACCESS > >> except through a panel on the front of the unit that allows access to > the > >> air filter. > >> > >> The only questionable fact to me is that there is an electric fan in the > >> heat pump. > >> > >> > >> Greg McGahan > >> Operations Manager > >> > >> Living Water Fire Protection > >> 1160 McKenzie Road > >> P.O. Box 877 > >> Cantonment, Florida 32533 > >> (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > >> [email protected] > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John > O'Connor > >> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 2:36 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: RE: water source heat pumps > >> > >> Greg, > >> One drawback that I see is future service work by another contractor, > >> thinking that the entire floor is isolated by the FCV and having that > one > >> LIVE vertical branchline feeding all the utility closets. Could be a > >> problem. > >> > >> John R. O'Connor > >> National Fire Sprinklers, Inc. > >> Nashville TN > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg > >> McGahan > >> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 1:48 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: water source heat pumps > >> > >> OK gang I need some advice hopefully based on experience. > >> > >> We are doing an independent hotel that is being constructed more like a > >> typical condominium. In the far end of each unit (room), there is a > small > >> enclosed closet without a door, but with a removable cover that houses a > >> Water Source Heat Pump. > >> > >> I have assumed sprinkler will be required up to this point but I am open > >> to > >> comments on that. There is NO WAY to get concealed piping to the closet > at > >> this time. The Building is 9 Stories tall with separate FCV's on each > >> floor > >> etc. > >> > >> My Question is can I feed these closets like a shaft from the 1st floor > >> system all of the way up in order to avoid a lot of grief and trouble to > >> get > >> the owner to add soffits in every Unit? > >> > >> All comments welcome except those that point out something painfully > >> obvious > >> I may be missing. > >> > >> Greg McGahan > >> Operations Manager > >> > >> Living Water Fire Protection > >> 1160 McKenzie Road > >> P.O. Box 877 > >> Cantonment, Florida 32533 > >> (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > >> [email protected] > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] > >> > >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > Todd G. Williams, PE > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > Stonington, Connecticut > > www.fpdc.com > > 860.535.2080 _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > at home.... > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
