Insulation is considered ceiling  A8.5.4.1
130 spacing
Use 4.2 heads
Reduce Remote Area
Aka
“What Travis said”



From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Ben Young
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 11:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Ceiling of trusses and insulation - Character set not allowed

I agree that this is combustible construction with members three feet or less 
on center.

Hmm, I think I see where part of my hesitation lies. I've been checking my 2013 
edition instead of my 2010.
The 2013 edition changed around table 8.6.2.2.1(a) and added 'Combustible 
unobstructed with no exposed members' at 225 SQFT for a hydraulically 
calculated system.
I guess I'm latching onto the 'no exposed members' part, but even if you 
completely stuff TJI construction with insulation, its still obstructed 
construction, correct?
I read the construction definition portions of chapter 3, and I don't see 
anything that would allow me to go to 225 SQFT here.
So any way I try and slice it, I'm looking at 130 SQFT, with the deflectors 1-6 
below the bottom of the TJIs up to a maximum distance down of 22 from the top 
of the structure.
The insulation basically does nothing except get in my way and hold mold 
spores. Is that the way you guys are reading it?

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 8:54 AM Greg McGahan 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I agree with Travis. We have however been forced to have chicken wire or 
similar under the insulation to prevent it prematurely falling on the heads.


Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC<http://www.livingwaterfp.com>
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850<tel:850-937-1850>
fax 850-937-1852<tel:850-937-1852>

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Travis Mack, SET 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Then just do standard spray sprinklers at 130 sq ft max spacing.  Reduce the 
design area to 900 sq ft.  Use 4.2k sprinklers to keep the over-discharge down. 
 I think you are correct in using the insulation for your ceiling to locate 
your deflectors.

Travis Mack, SET

MFP Design, LLC

2508 E Lodgepole Drive

Gilbert, AZ 85298

480-505-9271<tel:480-505-9271>

fax: 866-430-6107<tel:866-430-6107>

email:[email protected]<mailto:email:[email protected]>



http://www.mfpdesign.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack
On 11/21/2016 4:01 PM, Ben Young wrote:
Travis,
I actually don't want to use CC heads because of the onerous draft stopping 
requirements, so that's a negative.
Space is heated, so we're talking wet system here.


Benjamin Young

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Travis Mack, SET 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

I would say you have combustible framing members less than 3' on center so you 
are limited to 130 sq ft spacing.  If the space is less than 60" deep, you may 
want to consider something like the Tyco CC3 and get up to 16' spacing at 256 
sq ft.  Also, the design area would be reduced.  You would have 1950 sq ft with 
SSU, assuming this is dry, or 1300 sq ft with CC3, again, assuming it is dry.

Travis Mack, SET

MFP Design, LLC

2508 E Lodgepole Drive

Gilbert, AZ 85298

480-505-9271<tel:480-505-9271>

fax: 866-430-6107<tel:866-430-6107>

email:[email protected]<mailto:email:[email protected]>



http://www.mfpdesign.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack
On 11/21/2016 12:56 PM, Ben Young wrote:
So I have a crawl space that was originally supposed to get drywall on the 
underside of the trusses, but now the owner wants sprinklers instead.
This is inside an apartment building of type VB construction under the ground 
floor.  The crawl space is more than 36" deep, so it doesn't require CC heads.
My question is how the heck do I treat the spacing for the heads I'm going to 
install?
The structure is 14" deep TJIs that are stuffed with non-faced batt insulation 
that's held in place by furring strips.  My gut is telling me its not a smooth 
flat ceiling, but its also not exactly combustible obstructed either.
At this point, I don't even know whether I should consider it obstructed or 
unobstructed.
I'm leaning towards the insulation will act as a ceiling and I can go 1-12 down 
from the bottom of the truss, and do 225 SQFT spacing, but can't find anything 
to assuage my fears in the code.
This project was submitted under the 2010 edition of 13, but the AHJ now has 
adopted 2013, FYI.
I looked through 8.15.1 but that doesn't really tell me HOW to space in these 
areas, just if I can omit or not... also didn't find too much of use in the 
AFSA informal interps.
Any thoughts on this?
Benjamin Young

_______________________________________________

Sprinklerforum mailing list

[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
_______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
 http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

_______________________________________________

Sprinklerforum mailing list

[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org

Reply via email to