I've stayed silent until then, but this discussion is getting annoying. I'm starting to think that the only way to restore sanity is to fork sympy.
2013/7/3 Ondřej Čertík <ondrej.cer...@gmail.com> > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Sergey Kirpichev <skirpic...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 11:04:03AM -0600, Ondřej Čertík wrote: > >> > Actually, this just means that we have mpmath fork. > >> > >> That's right. > >> > >> [...] > >> > >> One should only depend on libraries, that are well supported and widely > > used. > >> Mpmath is not. For example on my Ubuntu, here are all the projects that > > depend > >> on mpmath > >> > >> [...] > >> > >> As such, sympy is the only project that actually depends on mpmath > > > > Taking into account all this. Do you think, mpmath should actually be > > a separate project? > > > > If it's a pet project for sympy - why it's not just a part of sympy? > > Well it is part of sympy. :) No, it's not. As you pointed out yourself, sympy.mpmath and mpmath are not the same thing. > It started as part of SymPy and so far we > have been treating it as part of SymPy. No, we have not. Current policy is not to modify anything in sympy.mpmath. > Fredrik eventually split it, > kept it and supported it as a separate project and called > it mpmath. Somebody then created a separate Debian package and so on. > And that's fine, > as mpmath does not depend on the rest of sympy, and if it is useful to > at least some people outside of sympy, then why not make it available > as a separate package too. > > > > > If not, I don't think that the small current number of mpmath's users > > (not total, but ones using mpmath AND NOT sympy) is an argument that > > this project is not well supported and we should encourage forking. > If mpmath does not have many users, it's in part because sympy robbed it of its users (it's basically impossible to use the real mpmath together with sympy) > > >> It could and it should, but arguably mpmath gets much better testing > >> when many of sympy users run our test suite. > No, mpmath doesn't get any testing by sympy users, because what they use is sympy.mpmath, not mpmath. > > > > mpmath could run own test suite, in mpmath/tests/ (perhaps, we need a > > patch for this?). There should be no decrease in test coverage at > > least. > > > >> Now for projects like Debian or Fedora, which do allow easy dependency > >> installation, we should provide an easy switch in our setup.py. > > > > Ok. I think, we got your points. Let's see, if there is other opinions. > > Now when my opinion is clear, can you clearly write your opinion as well? > :) > > We have agreement on Debian/Fedora as well as that the size of mpmath > is not an issue. > Size is irrelevant. Code duplication is an issue in itself. > We also have an agreement that for people like you (and others) who > prefer to install it separately > should have that option and it should be easy. > Making it an option is not a solution. It might help packagers but it'll make the code for installation even more complicated, and force us to test both versions. > So why do you want to make this extra step and remove it from sympy > completely? > Clearly it's not going to make *your* life any easier, since you'll > already be installing mpmath separately. > It would make *my* life easier, because the code for testing and installing would be seriously simplified. > But you make it more complex for all the users who don't want to > bother with mpmath and just want sympy to work. So I still don't > understand your argument. > It's "pip install sympy" in one case and "pip install sympy" in the other. You can call it more complex if you like, but it's not strictly more complex. > >> I apologize for the longer email, but this issue is something that I > >> want to make clear, as it is my highest priority that sympy remains > >> easy to use and install. > > > > Through, you don't provide any examples of difficulties with mpmath's > > installation. > > Just the fact that you have to install it. > > Ondrej > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sympy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sympy+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sympy@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sympy. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
