On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 21:16:45 -0600, Don Calkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 5:09 PM -0600 12/24/04, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
Some relevant passages from Susan's paper below. [deleted]
If they are accurate then it seems likely that even if we ignore the
the statements about collective security
I wrote: So, essentially, the position of Baha'u'llah's
followers is the same as Abel's: If thou dost stretch thy
hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my
hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the
cherisher of the worlds. We practice non-resistance in the
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 06:25:18 -0900, Sandra Chamberlain
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
Just want to say I agree with the recent post by Don C. and
support his choice of scripture. Let me add this to the
previously mentioned passages from the Writings of
Baha'u'llah, because it too,
Hi, Gilberto,
At 08:32 AM 12/25/2004, you wrote:
I think part of my misgivings with the Bahai faith have to do with a
different attitude towards time and morality. I mean, if something is
immoral, why wouldn't it always be immoral? (given sufficiently similar
situations) Morality shouldn't
Hi, Gilberto,
At 09:51 AM 12/25/2004, you wrote:
The question is in the subject line. Wouldn't the passage below endorse the
idea that there are some perennial commandments, and guidelines to human
behavior across the manifestations? And the important thing is to follow that
spiritual core.
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 10:50:19 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
At 09:51 AM 12/25/2004, you wrote:
The question is in the subject line. Wouldn't the passage below endorse the
idea that there are some perennial commandments, and guidelines to human
behavior across
Hi, Gilberto,
At 11:12 AM 12/25/2004, you wrote:
Ok, I will be making a field trip to the encyclopedia now...lol...
The term Wertrationalitäet (substantive rationality) comes from Max Weber. He
distinguished it from Zweckrationalitäet (instrumental or formal
rationality). Wertrationalitäet
Gilberto wrote:
...it gives the impression that somehow they are more peaceful,
or closer to pacifism, etc. than other religions in principle. when
there are significant exceptions which make that untrue.
The exceptions are so closely defined that I can't agree that this is
untrue. We are,
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:44:03 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
.But in some occasions you need to deal with violent aggressors with force.
Yes.
Gilberto:
But when Bahais make a big deal out [of saying] that holy war has been
abrogated it gives the impression
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 09:46:06 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto wrote:
...it gives the impression that somehow they are more peaceful,
or closer to pacifism, etc. than other religions in principle. when
there are significant exceptions which make that untrue.
In a message dated 12/25/2004 9:40:49 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So would it
be permissible for the Bahai country to fight
back?
It is proper for a nation to defend itself when attacked. It is not proper
for an individual to reort to violence for his own
In a message dated 12/25/2004 11:13:06 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And the two
main examples which come to mindare gender equality and the use of
force.
Use of force for states in defense of the nation is permissable, but not
"holy".
Gender equality is
Gilberto wrote:
Ok then. So in your opinion what were the original God-given rules
governing warfare which were followed by Muhammad and Hussein?
[D.A.L.] I cannot claim to have a sufficiently deep understanding of Islam
to give you a good answer to this. I've based my understanding on the
Let's say that for whatever reason certain religious militant
fundamentalists look at the Bahai faith's global ambitions and claims to have
superceded the previous religions and see the growing Bahai faith as a threat.
First it should be said that there is precious little in the Baha'i Writings
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 14:00:41 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 12/25/2004 11:13:06 AM Central Standard Time,
Gender equality is progressive from Islamic custom not radically different.
You have forgotten to consider that under Islamic law a woman may not
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:23:31 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto wrote:
Ok then. So in your opinion what were the original God-given rules
governing warfare which were followed by Muhammad and Hussein?
[D.A.L.] I cannot claim to have a sufficiently deep
That is interesting. Do you have the specific reference for that?
Especially the ban on holy war.
We should also bear in mind that the distinguishing character of the Bah'
Revelation does not solely consist in the completeness and unquestionable
validity of the Dispensation which the
Gilberto,
At 12:29 PM 12/25/2004, you wrote:
Incidentally, isn't the Bahai faith pro-life? Is abortion the same as murder?
In the Bahai faith would stopping abortions be considered the same as
stopping a murder?
The term pro-life refers to a political and social movement. Although Shoghi
Gilberto,
I wrote:
The difference between the philosophia perennis and my understanding of the
Baha'i view is not necessarily seen the result, but in the cause.
You replied:
I'm not sure I follow?
In other words, there are eternal teachings, but the explanations given for it
in the Baha'i
Hi, Gilberto,
At 06:09 PM 12/25/2004, you wrote:
Hmm, the above sounds kind of like a policy. But the basic question I had was
whether abortion would be equivalent to murder.
Abortion merely to prevent the birth of an unwanted child is strictly
forbidden in the Cause. There may, however, be
Although Shoghi Effendi said that abortions should not be permitted unless
authorized by the woman's physician
I suggest that is an incomplete statement of the teachings on the subject. I
have posted some quotes below that put the matter of consulation with the
physician into a context.
there
Here is a link to a thought provoking article in light of
recent discussions on the list. I would be interested in any
comments, particularly with regard to prevalence of arranged
marriages in current Muslim society.
Sandra
-When Islam Breaks Down- By: Theodore Dalrymple - City
Journal
On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 18:28:53 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
I wrote:
The difference between the philosophia perennis and my understanding of
the Baha'i view is not necessarily seen the result, but in the cause.
You replied:
I'm not sure I follow?
In other
Gilberto wrote:
...Bahais
making a point of saying holy war has been blotted out the book
especially combined with the idea of progressive revelation, would
give the impression that they are somehow specifically claiming to be
less violent than islam. Is that a fair statement?
I've reached
Hi, Gilberto,
At 08:24 PM 12/25/2004, you wrote:
Ok, maybe I'm just totally wrong but I have the impression that you are
saddling them with unnecessary baggage. I mean, I would tend to be rather
mellow about the term perennialism be more inclusive in how I use it.
Well, perennialism is only a
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