There is no having a sane discussion on this topic. This is more like a
whining child having an open temper-tantrum in public. Un-vaxxed persons
are a health hazard and attempting to explain this to a child is a bit
difficult. Those who don't have a vaccine should not be allowed in
public. Every time a non-vaxxed person gets sick with Covid there is
the potential for a new variant even worse than the Delta variant.
Un-vaxxed persons should be quarrantined as they are a health-hazard to
everyone around them and to the public at large.
On 7/23/21 1:11 PM, David Coudron wrote:
I know, we can all make our own decisions. However, I don’t believe
I have stated anything that varies from the facts. I can send you
the Moderna sheet I received with my vaccine if you want to see that.
Your points about FDA approval are probably accurate, however, why is
not OK to say that I want to wait for the approval? That doesn’t
seem so unreasonable. We don’t let folks on the plane based on the
likelihood that those on the no-fly list probably won’t show up to get
on the plane anyway. We still check each and every person to make
sure. Just like we do the FDA approval process to make sure.
Otherwise, we could just tell drug companies “if you are pretty sure
you’d pass anyway, we won’t bother putting you through the approval
process” We don’t do that for good reason.
I agree with you on the memes both ways. Neither approach are helping
the situation. It should be a discussion based upon the scientific
merits of the situation. Unfortunately both side love to poke at the
intelligence of those that don’t agree with their decision.
There is no way to know this for sure, but I wonder how many folks
publicly shaming others for not taking the vaccine know that it is not
FDA approved?
Likely won’t change lots of folks decisions, nor am I suggesting it
should have. But I don’t think that those of us that decided to go
ahead with the vaccination get to make medical decisions for those who
aren’t comfortable with an experimental vaccine.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of * Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 2:56 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
I'm not calling anybody stupid, but I don't agree with most of your list.
On 7/23/2021 3:37 PM, David Coudron wrote:
Here is what I find particularly challenging about suggesting that
folks who have chosen not to take the vaccine are not that smart.
1. Folks who do that never talk about that fact that this is not
an FDA approved medicine/vaccine. I took the Moderna
vaccine, the paperwork clearly stated several facts. Among
them are:
1. This is not FDA approved.
It has an emergency use authorization. FDA approval takes a long
time, but around 90% of the submissions end up approved because they
are pretty well tested by the manufacturer before they apply. Anybody
applying for FDA approval already has a pretty good idea whether it's
going to go through or not. Presumably people on a no-fly list don't
routinely show up at the airport expecting to board a plane.
Presumably people don't try to get a CDL if they know they'll fail the
drug test. Same idea.
2.
3. This “vaccine” has not been proven to prevent the virus.
While we likely all agree that there is a very good
likelihood that this “vaccine” will help prevent it, it is
far from a proven fact.
99% of people dying of Covid right now are un-vaccinated. We can
split hairs and say maybe it didn't prevent them from becoming
infected, but it clearly prevents them from dying.
4.
2. The argument is, “there should be no reason to think this
vaccine isn’t safe since people aren’t dying from taking the
vaccine”.
I've never heard such an argument.
3. Vaccines are a risk/reward type of medical treatment.
Every medicine you take has some level of side effect. The
vast majority of medicines have such negligible side effects,
that they are considered completely safe. The FDA approval
process exists to ensure we understand the potential of
serious side effects and drug interaction issues. If you are
30 years old and folks are saying you have to take this
experimental drug to prevent this incredibly small chance of
you becoming seriously ill or dying, it seems like an
intelligent thing to say “I am not sure the risk of getting
seriously ill or dying from this disease outweighs the risk of
using an experimental drug”. It used to be that people
relied upon a conversation with their doctor to determine
personal risk of disease and use of a drug. Apparently we
no longer do that. We publicly shame people into using
experimental drugs.
4. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t have a full
understanding of drug interactions with other medicines folks
need to take.
It isn't some weird new chemical we just invented this year.
5. We likely understand the very common medicines, but, certainly
not all. We have FDA approval processes for good reason. If
for example, you were under 40 and were taking seizure control
medication, it would be very fair to hold off on an
experimental drug until it is fully understood if the vaccine
might lessen the effectiveness of the seizure control
medication. An incredibly low risk of serious illness or
death from the virus could turn into a good chance of serious
injury from seizure. As far as I know data like that is
certainly not available yet.
6. Why do vaccinated people feel the need to belittle those that
have decided not to get vaccinated by an experimental drug?
I don't know the answer to that. I'm not comfortable with that
behavior either. It goes both ways though. Plenty of memes out there
accusing people of being dumb sheep for taking the vaccine.
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